View Full Version : 'Dark Reign' Discussion Thread
cyberauron
01-04-2009, 02:51 AM
I know its early, but what do you guys think of this new direction and the events that have already transpired. For me, I am really looking forward to Iron Man Most Wanted and the Nick Fury story
evilernie234
01-04-2009, 07:29 PM
I'm also looking forward to the Ironman storyline, but I'm really interested in the Dark Avengers story. I think that Dark Reign will be an outstanding and dark event, but when its over I hope that Marvel will give us a break with these HUGE event crossovers
optimus187prime
01-04-2009, 11:10 PM
I like the idea of the frontline Dark Avengers and the black ops Thunderbolts.
cormano
01-04-2009, 11:28 PM
I'm not looking forward to it. I'm tired of the status quo changes. Bendis keeps saying in interviews how every time they say they're making changes, they do, but that misses the point to me. I like the Marvel Universe, I don't want to see it change every six months, I just want to read good stories and all we seem to be getting are set ups for future good stories that never happen because the status quo changes before they have a chance to get to them.
Plus, I really don't buy that Norman Osborn would be able to climb to the Nick Fury level that they've put him at. It was mentioned in the last New Avengers that the public does actually know that he was Green Goblin. He's serial killer with a long history of mental instability, how stupid are people in the Marvel Universe to put him in charge just because he fired the kill shot on an alien invader?
crippler
01-05-2009, 01:30 AM
Exactly.
I can't understand why Norman Osborn isn't in jail. Everyone knows who he was/is. What was the trump card he held to make all of that go away?
thenextchampion
01-05-2009, 01:34 AM
It has to be because of OMD/BND on why Norman is where he is. Cause I think with Thunderbolts during the Civil War that Iron Man gave him very little lee-way on being the ruler for the group. So the public and the government had to have known he was a murderer/psychopath. Maybe with OMD everyone forgot he was the Goblin, except for the villains, and they didnt think he would be a probably.
Just because of the lazy and poorly plotted Secret Invasion I am not looking forward to this new status quo. Bendis might not be doing all the comics associated with Dark Reign, but he most likely controlling where this is all leading up too. There was just no reason for this 'villains rule the superheroes' type of status quo and I think it's gonna frustrate a lot of people.
Having said all of this.....There is a Deadpool/Thunderbolts crossover this Spring and I cant wait for that.
cyberauron
01-05-2009, 01:42 AM
Grom what i read they all know hes the green goblin but since the thunderbolts and the ending of SI they believe he is a good guy
cenquist
01-05-2009, 01:14 PM
possible *spoiler* warning if you look at the preview
Remender and Opena to kill the Sentry (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=1813&disp=table) with a Dark Reign tie in?
mikegraham6
01-05-2009, 01:25 PM
It has to be because of OMD/BND on why Norman is where he is. Cause I think with Thunderbolts during the Civil War that Iron Man gave him very little lee-way on being the ruler for the group. So the public and the government had to have known he was a murderer/psychopath. Maybe with OMD everyone forgot he was the Goblin, except for the villains, and they didnt think he would be a probably.
Just because of the lazy and poorly plotted Secret Invasion I am not looking forward to this new status quo. Bendis might not be doing all the comics associated with Dark Reign, but he most likely controlling where this is all leading up too. There was just no reason for this 'villains rule the superheroes' type of status quo and I think it's gonna frustrate a lot of people.
Having said all of this.....There is a Deadpool/Thunderbolts crossover this Spring and I cant wait for that.
this can't be right if they mentionned he was the Green Goblin in the recent New Avengers. I think OMD only rebooted Spidey. I don't necessarily buy that the public would fall so deeply in love with Osborne, but i don't they would know the extent of his psychosis/criminality. Think about it, a lot of the Green Goblin's "villain-ness" revolved around torturing Spider-Man. He killed and kidnapped people he loved, but it's not like Osborn was flying around harrassing the public, robbing banks and killing indescriminently. Although i really don't think, under any circumstances, would they ever put someone with a criminal recond in charge of national security. He was in jail (read The Pulse) and for some reason, during civil war, all was forgiven because he was under some sort of mind control?? Bollacks!
poltah
01-05-2009, 03:12 PM
I don't get the whole Iron Man wanted thing. So Tony Stark didn't discover the Skrull's were invading.
But he did have a huge part in stopping the Skrulls, so they hand everything over to Osborn just because he's been running the Thunderbolts and he happened to be the guy who killed the Skrull queen?
Wouldn't this situation be the same as if after 9/11 George Bush got fired and was now a criminal, and then some former mass murderer found Bin Laden and people were like "Yes! Make him president now!".
bjkrautk
01-05-2009, 04:32 PM
I never understood the decision for Tony Stark to appoint Osborn as head of the T-bolts...and have slowly been falling out of love with the book ever since. (By the next issue, there won't be a single character from the original T-Bolts on the team anymore....and maybe not even anyone from the pre-Osborn T-Bolts.) The Deadpool crossover will have to deliver quite the sell-job to keep me interested.
Confusing matters more, Dark Avengers sounds more like the original Thunderbolts than the ongoing T-Bolts. Villains masquerading as heroes, this time with the actual sanction of the government.
...and what does that mean for Mighty Avengers? (I assume that Osborn will start calling his new team the Avengers....New Avengers have already been called "Captain America's Avengers"....Iron Man's Avengers?)
That being said, I think that the idea behind Dark Reign - placating the individual villains in order to keep them in line - is intriguing. The one-shot meeting between of the illuminaughty really sets the storyline, as well laying the seeds for the crossover to follow (since AFAIK, there's no limited series central to DR).
I am very curious about what'll happen with Mighty, as for Dark I think it's less Thunderbolts and more villains masquerading as heroes to soil their name.
I think he's trying to make Wolverine, Spider-Man, Ms Marvel, Hawkeye and Iron Man look bad.
cyberauron
01-06-2009, 02:27 AM
I am very curious about what'll happen with Mighty, as for Dark I think it's less Thunderbolts and more villains masquerading as heroes to soil their name.
I think he's trying to make Wolverine, Spider-Man, Ms Marvel, Hawkeye and Iron Man look bad.
who are the dark avengers:
"Wolverine", "Hawkeye", "Ms. Marvel", "Iron Patriot" and "Spider-Man"
I'm thinking Daken, Bullseye, ??, ?? and Venom
thenextchampion
01-06-2009, 04:29 AM
Josh is not gonna be happy to see yet another Hawkeye clone.
scootman
01-06-2009, 11:51 PM
i thought i read somewhere that the Dark Avengers are Osborn's secret team used for taking out certain heroes Osborn wants out of the picture
diabhol
01-07-2009, 04:14 AM
I never understood the decision for Tony Stark to appoint Osborn as head of the T-bolts...
Tony didn't appoint Norman. Tony worked for SHIELD, which is technically a global organization, but essentially controlled by the United States. Norman worked directly for the U.S. government under the Commission for Superhuman Affairs, which is probably one of the most corrupt government agencies in the Marvel U (hell, even the Red Skull ran the thing for a few years).
This is why they occasionally had pissing matches in other people's books (e.g., the last arc on Moon Knight).
cadgers
01-07-2009, 04:39 AM
"Wolverine", "Hawkeye", "Ms. Marvel", "Iron Patriot" and "Spider-Man"
I'm thinking Daken, Bullseye, ??, ?? and Venom
I'm calling Osborn as Iron Patriot.
cyberauron
01-07-2009, 04:50 AM
if half the cast of thunderbolts are dark avengers, whoe going to be on the thunderbolts
thenextchampion
01-07-2009, 04:55 AM
Is anyone else thinking it's lame that practically the Thunderbolts are going to be the Dark Avengers?
To me, them dressing up as superheroes to give the real ones a bad name is like so childish. Really, it's like a five year old trying to tattletale on another kid. How on earth can anyone not tell the the Hawkeye in Dark Avengers (which looking at the covers for DA #1 clearly shows it's Bullseye) is not the real Hawkeye? The public might not know some of their idenities (like Hawkeye or Spidey)...but they should know by now the mannerisms and their voices to know it isnt the real person.
Lame.
joexmas
01-07-2009, 06:06 AM
Well there is that huge thunderbolt in the background on the cover...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/joexmas/Picture2.png
thenextchampion
01-07-2009, 06:27 AM
Well I wont post it directly on this forum, cause it would definitely be spoilers. But here is the cover for Dark Avengers #3....or the varient of it anyways.
http://westfieldcomics.com/cgi-bin/getpic.cgi?Image=2009_01-art089.jpg
Well if that isnt the Thunderbolts member that begins with 'B' for his name as Hawkeye....then I cant imagine who else it could be.
racemccloud
01-07-2009, 06:51 AM
Is anyone else thinking it's lame that practically the Thunderbolts are going to be the Dark Avengers?
To me, them dressing up as superheroes to give the real ones a bad name is like so childish. Really, it's like a five year old trying to tattletale on another kid. How on earth can anyone not tell the the Hawkeye in Dark Avengers (which looking at the covers for DA #1 clearly shows it's Bullseye) is not the real Hawkeye? The public might not know some of their idenities (like Hawkeye or Spidey)...but they should know by now the mannerisms and their voices to know it isnt the real person.
Lame.
I believe you mean that, it is the OPPOSITE of lame. That's right! I'm drinkin' the Bendis Kool-Aid!
Look, as long as Bendis plays in the Avengers sandbox and not the whole Event-Beach, things will be fine. He likes the little moments too much to be doing "Crisis" or "War" size events.
thenextchampion
01-07-2009, 06:56 AM
I believe you mean that, it is the OPPOSITE of lame. That's right! I'm drinkin' the Bendis Kool-Aid!
Look, as long as Bendis plays in the Avengers sandbox and not the whole Event-Beach, things will be fine. He likes the little moments too much to be doing "Crisis" or "War" size events.
Well we'll see how the first issue goes....even though I wont be reading it cause I got my resolution not to read Bendis books all year.
Even still, I dont see how the premise for this doesnt come across anything but lame. Now I'm starting to see why Kirkman gave Bendis so much shit for this annoucement of a new Avengers team.
if half the cast of thunderbolts are dark avengers, whoe going to be on the thunderbolts
its going to be a black ops thing i think
Ms Marvel back in an old costume eh?
Why is that I wonder.
Because it's not Carol
It's not? Now I'm even MORE confused. :confused:
Are they killing Carol? I heard rumours of something bad happening, in fact I think someone said "she's not long for this world".
Or 2 Ms. Marvels running around?
Curiouser and curiouser.
mikegraham6
01-07-2009, 04:25 PM
"Wolverine", "Hawkeye", "Ms. Marvel", "Iron Patriot" and "Spider-Man"
I'm thinking Daken, Bullseye, ??, ?? and Venom
Ms. Marvel = Moonstone
Iron Patriot = Luke Cage (or possibly Osborn himself)
mikegraham6
01-07-2009, 04:27 PM
its going to be a black ops thing i think
i think it's going to be more along the lines of the original THunderbolts team, actual reformed supervillains led by songbird
From waht I've seen, it doesn't look like that.
Ant-Man is going to be on it, we saw he just got promoted to the Thunderbolts from the Initiative
So, just to spell it out for myself like I'm retarded...
The Dark Avengers are the Thunderbolts (and some others) POSING as varous New and Mighty Avengers to ruin there public image.
With the exception of Venom, cause who needs to ruin Spidey's image really?
Or something like that.
mikegraham6
01-07-2009, 04:37 PM
possibly..... ;)
bjkrautk
01-07-2009, 04:37 PM
if half the cast of thunderbolts are dark avengers, whoe going to be on the thunderbolts
Interview with new T-Bolts writer Andy Diggle. (http://www.marvel.com/news/comicstories.6449.Dark_Reign-Makers~colon~_Andy_Diggle) Minor spoilers abound (including some of the new T-Bolts).
thehumaneclipse
01-08-2009, 05:52 AM
I'm looking forward to the Dark Avengers, but not if Senty, Ares and Marvel Boy (Noh-Var) are joining the team.
Who do I think the Dark Avengers are?
Iron Patriot - Osborn or Luke Cage (New Avengers shows Luke making a deal with Osborn. Could this be Luke's payment to Normaln?)
Venom - Not Brock or Scorpion - my guess, Luke Cage
Hawkeye - Bullseye
Ms. Marvel - Moonstone
Wolverine - He's too tall and slender to be Wolverine. Could the Swordsman be persuaded? I'm not sure who it'll be, but it's definitely not Logan.
bjkrautk
01-08-2009, 04:00 PM
I'm looking forward to the Dark Avengers, but not if Senty, Ares and Marvel Boy (Noh-Var) are joining the team.
Who do I think the Dark Avengers are?
Iron Patriot - Osborn or Luke Cage (New Avengers shows Luke making a deal with Osborn. Could this be Luke's payment to Normaln?)
Venom - Not Brock or Scorpion - my guess, Luke Cage
Hawkeye - Bullseye
Ms. Marvel - Moonstone
Wolverine - He's too tall and slender to be Wolverine. Could the Swordsman be persuaded? I'm not sure who it'll be, but it's definitely not Logan.
If there's one thing that Swordsman (Andreas Strucker) won't be doing in the near future, it's working with Osborn. (Taking pains not to spoil one of the Dark Reign one-shots with that statement.)
Also, I think Venom (Gargan) will be posing as Spider-Man in the Dark Avengers; not someone else posing as venom. This is still a Norman Osborn - organized team we're talking about -- anything that makes the spider look bad goes.
Moonstone is a good call for Ms. Marvel - her powers are close enough that she could convincingly imitate the real thing.
Bullseye / Hawkeye is pretty much a lock at this point, IMO.
Wolverine is a tricky one, since there are so few people out there with both the physical skills and the powers to play the part. I'd say Deadpool, but I happen to know (minor spoiler) that Osborn sends the T-bolts after him in a few months (end spoiler), so it's not him. Wild Child / Wildheart would be a possibility - if they go deep enough into the marvel lore to find him. Otherwise, if they want someone who simply fights like Wolvie, Taskmaster would be available at the right price. Personally, I'm holding out hope for Batroc ze Leapair. :D
Iron Patriot could be just about anyone; Cage has more value to Osborn as a mole within the New Avengers than he would as a Dark Avenger, so I don't think it would be him. Titanium Man, as an example, would fit the requirements (making the 'patriot' part of the name more ironic), but the artwork on his Wikipedia page suggests the character might be showing up somewhere else soon. Just to throw out another name, I'll say The Fixer / Techno.
"Wolverine" is almost definitely going to be his son Daken.
THis guy?
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/176056-107116-daken_large.jpg
But...but...he's a douche...
He's got, like, a Dewclaw. I mean WTF?????