The New Ending to Watchmen What Did You Think?

[unclekoolaid]

::Movie/Comic Spoiler Alert::
If you haven't seen the movie or read the GN don't continue.










I threw in my 2 cents about Watchmen in the thread about this weeks episode and after reflecting on the movie and reading a few forum posts I stumbled across a thread that made me think. This credit goes to vampyr66 over at Rotten Tomatoes, he bought up a good point about the ending that I can't stop thinking about and would like the opinions of some others.

I originally thought that Snyder's ending to Watchmen worked and that mainstream audiences would "get it" easier then the original squid ending in the GN, but after reading vampyr66's post I think I have changed my mind. His argument is that the new ending doesn't make sense and wouldn't have happened in the Watchmen universe.

In the GN The Comedian lost it because of the horrific inhuman creature that Ozy had created, as well as the crazy plan he had come up with to trick the world. In the film we are told that he lost it because of the amount of people that would die, blah blah blah, but how can you show us that the Comedian was a guy who truly understood and embraced human nature, a man who killed people himself and even shot a pregnant women showing no remorse, then tell us that he broke down and flipped out because he uncovers a plan to blow up some bombs? On top of that why would Russia or any other world power for that matter care that Manhattan was the one who planted the bombs, Manhattan was American, they would have blamed it on the US and intensified the war, not stopped it all together.

Agree/disagree? Am i missing something here?

[stubadub]

I don't think it's that big of a stretch that the Comedian found value in human life in his old age and couldn't bear the thought that so many were going to die, potentially many that he knew.

I also don't think all nations working together to prevent another attack from Dr. Manhattan is that big of a stretch for the film. People will form bonds and work together during times of desperation that they wouldn't normally form. New York also getting hit makes America a victim instead of an aggressor.

[joeyrock]

I thought the comedian broke down because of what he did.. he killed those people for the good of the country. He was a patriot. Now all that was for nothing, he killed people who he didn't need to because Ozy's plan made all that war, and winning that war, irrelevant. But most of it was due to the fact he was old, washed up and had become the bad guy, and he knew Ozy was going to kill him now that he knew about the plan. It was self-pity, not some new found passion for humanity.

As for the ending, as I said in the episode thread. I thought it was a better ending in the movie than the book. In the book the squid comes out of no where. The US and USSR coming together out of fear Manhattan generates the same result in a far more believable and succinct manner. It works better on so many levels. The US turning the their enemies out of the fear of their own weapon? That's genius. You could argue that, some one did, that coming together to stop an infinitely powerful enemy is kind of pointless. But so is a Nuclear arms race in the first place... Manhattan is the ultimate nuclear weapon. To fear some randomly appearing explanation-less squid monster from another dimension is stupid by comparison.

[krypt]

I actually was really impressed by how they handled the ending. I heard that the squid wasn't going to be in it (though "SQUID initialized" was on one of the screens once Ozymandias set it off) and was a little worried about how it would change the rest of the book and its message. I think they changed it in a great way and handled it in a way that might be more logical and practical than the book.

[cptn-vortex]

yea, to me, the new ending makes much more sense. I'm not going to say it is Better or Worse, but it is neither. Its just different. One thing though, if they got rid of the Squid, they should have at least gotten rid of the Altered Cat thing. There was no explanation of his genetics research....

[wideawakewesley]

I thought it was an acceptable substitute that worked well for the medium. Any issues with it can be rationalised away.

[diane]

I think having it pinned on Dr. Manhattan made more sense than the squid anyway. Though I loved the whole subplot of the people who built it, the fact it was a giant squid thingy never seemed to match the intensity of the rest of the book. I always saw that choice the only weakness in the book (and the fact that Black Freighter story when I read it the first time made me incredibly nauseous, made it hard to get through).

I do wish that Dr. Manhattan had stated that the peace would only last for so long (20 years in the book--my ex took my copy along with my Sandman collection-bastard), I think that was the best argument against Ozy's entire ethical approach. I see Watchmen as a beautiful analyzation of the current philosophical approaches to Ethics, each hero being a different theoretical approach and yet the most powerful argument to the view Ozy takes was never said. Though Night Owl stating that he had perverted human nature was good, it doesn't cut to main issue as Dr. Manhattan's statement.

Granted, it has been about two years since I have read Watchmen last, so I could just be loosing it.

[sugarsickness]

I don't think the unwritten outcome of what actually happens because of either plot is any more or less waterproof than the other.

I liked it enough in the context of the movie.

[cybersuchus]

I'm in agreement with the original poster, as well as Jim Vejvoda of IGN (http://movies.ign.com/articles/959/959494p1.html). The results of the new ending are far less likely to have occurred; specifically because Dr. Manhattan was an American creation. That many cities in the US suffered too, would not matter. It would still be viewed as America's fault that this happened. It may have ended the war, but it would not be hand holding and free love. It would be the same kind of uneasy peace that was seen during the tail end of the cold war.

I loved the Watchmen film, but the ending was one of the few areas that I disapproved of. They didn't have to go as far out there as the squid, but some kind of external (not human created) threat would have been a far better choice than using Dr. M as a scapegoat.

[toknshogun]

I, too, am in agreement with Unclekoolaid about the ending of the movie, but for a couple other reasons ...

First, Snyder is being lauded for how uncompromising he is to the source material, but then why compromise on the ending and give us, what I will call, a more traditional Hollywood ending?!?! Dr. Manhattan regains his humanity at the end by sacrificing himself for the "good of makind" (by accepting Ozy's plan to frame him) ... Laurie resolves her issues with her mother ... Dan becomes whole again ... and the greatest atrocity of all, the movie implies that Ozy's plan is wrong!

In the GN, Ozy is shown to be the Smartest Man Alive (which BTW, I think the movie does a piss-poor job of conveying to the audience, but I digress), so when he reveals his plan to save humanity in the end, I actually understood the logic behind his plan. In the movie, Ozy is shown to be "Dumbest Smart Guy" we meet in the story ... Why would someone use the same device that created Dr. Manhattan to try and destroy him? STUPID!

Also, I do agree with Cybersuchus about the movie ending ... Dr. Manhattan is an American, and thus, America would be blamed for this catastrophic event ... You don't think the Soviets would conspire that the US destroyed NYC simply to deflect blame?

Anyway, after watching the movie and thinking about the ending more & more, I think it was the source of alot of the critiques of the film (wrt how it was adapted from the GN).

[sugarsickness]

I, too, am in agreement with Unclekoolaid about the ending of the movie, but for a couple other reasons ...

First, Snyder is being lauded for how uncompromising he is to the source material, but then why compromise on the ending and give us, what I will call, a more traditional Hollywood ending?!?! Dr. Manhattan regains his humanity at the end by sacrificing himself for the "good of makind" (by accepting Ozy's plan to frame him) ... Laurie resolves her issues with her mother ... Dan becomes whole again ... and the greatest atrocity of all, the movie implies that Ozy's plan is wrong!

In the GN, Ozy is shown to be the Smartest Man Alive (which BTW, I think the movie does a piss-poor job of conveying to the audience, but I digress), so when he reveals his plan to save humanity in the end, I actually understood the logic behind his plan. In the movie, Ozy is shown to be "Dumbest Smart Guy" we meet in the story ... Why would someone use the same device that created Dr. Manhattan to try and destroy him? STUPID!

Also, I do agree with Cybersuchus about the movie ending ... Dr. Manhattan is an American, and thus, America would be blamed for this catastrophic event ... You don't think the Soviets would conspire that the US destroyed NYC simply to deflect blame?

Anyway, after watching the movie and thinking about the ending more & more, I think it was the source of alot of the critiques of the film (wrt how it was adapted from the GN).
Go read the book again. Adrian does the same thing in the book when Manhattan comes after him that he does in the movie. Laurie, also, resolves her mother issues in the book with the exact same "people's lives take them strange places" bit. Dan, also, I don't think ends up anywhere different in the movie than the end of the book.

I also don't know how the movie implies Adrian's plan is "wrong."

And I don't by into this "Manhattan was an American so they would blame America" thing. How can we even begin to speculate what the other countries would interpret the attacks as? For that matter, how can we try and interpret what the other countries would do in the event of a giant psychic squid teleporting into New York? Is the comic, I think, is just as ambiguous about whether it actually works or not as the movie.

[wideawakewesley]

And I don't by into this "Manhattan was an American so they would blame America" thing. How can we even begin to speculate what the other countries would interpret the attacks as? For that matter, how can we try and interpret what the other countries would do in the event of a giant psychic squid teleporting into New York? Is the comic, I think, is just as ambiguous about whether it actually works or not as the movie.

Totally agree. As long as the ending is possible (and it is), I can totally buy into it.

Wes

[siraim]

I've heard plenty of arguments over the past few days from friends who disliked the movie for a variety of specious reasons. "It shouldn't have been made." "It wasn't true enough to the source." "It had a Hollywood ending." (really? millions of people around the world died in an even caused by Veidt, a beloved character was blown the F up by Dr Manhattan, and Dr Manhattan accepted his exile in order to save the world... oh, and true to the book, we're left to wonder how Rorshachs journal might interfere with the aftermath of the global peace.)

The argument that has bothered me the most has been the unreasoned argument that the movie just sucked. No qualifiers, no real reasons. It sucked because it sucked. It's an elegant argument on one hand, but it's completely meaningless on the other.

This movie couldn't have been anything else. What would a reimagined Watchmen have looked like? A modern setting that still retains the core values and themes of the GN. I'm not sure I'd be down for that.


My plot question WRT to the movie revolves around why other people that were vaporized by the Intrinsic Field Separator don't return with Dr. Manhattan like powers? Was it simply that he was smart enough to reform himself?

[sugarsickness]

My plot question WRT to the movie revolves around why other people that were vaporized by the Intrinsic Field Separator don't return with Dr. Manhattan like powers? Was it simply that he was smart enough to reform himself?well I think the only one still alive while the machine was turned on was Bubastis, the others had been poisoned previously.

Although a giant blue Bubastis would be awesome.

[taozoo4u]

In the film they were not bombs that went off, It was a machine that was manufactured by Ozy and Doc to replicate Dr. Manhattans powers, the machine was then sent to major cities across the world and then what ensued was mass destruction caused by the machines, but it was made too look like Dr. Manhattan had destroyed the places himself. The other countries wouldn't blame America because he was an American citizen, in fact when Manhattan went to Mars the Russians pushed into Afghanistan because they felt that Dr. Manhattan was no longer part of this world, so when the machines went off, not only did they go off in New York, they went off in Moscow and various other cities, when this happened the world was united under the fear of another Dr. Manhattan attack on that scale. The ending in the book is extremely similar to this, the only difference being that instead of being united on the fear of Dr. M the world is brought together under the fear of an alien invasion.

[darthender]

I actually prefer the movies ending.

First of all, it was nessecary since the squid takes another hour of setup.

Secondly, even with the setup, the movies ending makes much more sense with the characters provided by the story. The Watchmen always seemed to me to have this entire plotline of a godly being who may or may not be slowly going off the rails. And the ending of the movie capitalizes on that setup. Where as the book has that setup and then all of a sudden it's like "genetic engineering and psychic people and kidnapped comic book artists are the lynchpins for this plan!"


As for the people complaining that the movie's plan wouldn't work because everyone would just blame America, the fact is, even if they did blame America, what can they DO about it? The impression they are left with is that anyone who uses any kind of nuclear aggression will be obliterated by Manhattan. So they're choices are to just sit there shaking their fist at America, or accept America's offer to unite against the crazy god that happens to be from America.

As for the longevity of the peace, it pretty much lasts until the world figures out that Manhattan is gone. That has to be, at a minimum, until the space program reaches Mars. And by then, the world will have been cooperating in peace for decades and its entirely possible that they won't just immediately decend back to the brink of nuclear war.

[trunolimit]

I'm in agreement with the original poster, as well as Jim Vejvoda of IGN (http://movies.ign.com/articles/959/959494p1.html). The results of the new ending are far less likely to have occurred; specifically because Dr. Manhattan was an American creation. That many cities in the US suffered too, would not matter. It would still be viewed as America's fault that this happened. It may have ended the war, but it would not be hand holding and free love. It would be the same kind of uneasy peace that was seen during the tail end of the cold war.

I loved the Watchmen film, but the ending was one of the few areas that I disapproved of. They didn't have to go as far out there as the squid, but some kind of external (not human created) threat would have been a far better choice than using Dr. M as a scapegoat.

somebody else in another thread said it the best.

what Adrian did was give people a "real" GOD to fear. people go to church and do good things because they fear the consequences of displeasing their lord. some people don't believe in god so they have nothing to fear. Now there is no doubt that doctor M exist and is watching so everyone better play nice or else. Ultimately his plan will fail because doctor M will become a myth when future generations doubt his existence, oh and roarshach kinda killed it with his journal.

personally I thought the whole squid thing was cool because it was so confusing when they gave you the info about the artists on the island and at the end you where like oh snap. but this new ending just makes the comedian rant about the list seem not as important and thought provoking. as his rant about artists on an island.

[scoobydiesel]

I still think it worked out pretty well but some of my friends i went with to see it didnt really get the movie so i let one of thme borrow the GN. then we will see it again.

[skin87]

I think the movie ending better. An angry god is much more threatening than an alien squid and is more likely to unite enemies.

[-xcl-]

I liked the ending like other folks I agree it makes more sense than people trying to wrap their heads around a alien squid attack. My brother saw the movie loved it never read the book and now he'll read the book and see it from a different perspective. We both kind of summed up the move the same way , like Dick Tracy and Pulp Fiction got in a happy car accident and were fussed together for about 3 hours.

[az0madman]

My only big beef with the ending is that there was only a crater where the damage was dealt. Not as strong as seeing dead bodies and pure chaos everywhere which made Ozy's attack much more visually devastating. And I think that's the fault of using Dr. Manhattan as the weapon because he vaporizes.

I do wish they used someone/something other than Dr. Manhattan as the cause. I just couldn't buy that they'd believe he would do such a thing, at least, as an attack on the world.

[sugarsickness]

so instead of dead bodies we get bits and pieces of dead bodies.

Manhatten doesn't vaporize as much as he EXPLODES ALL OVER THE PLACE.

[siraim]

My only big beef with the ending is that there was only a crater where the damage was dealt. Not as strong as seeing dead bodies and pure chaos everywhere which made Ozy's attack much more visually devastating. And I think that's the fault of using Dr. Manhattan as the weapon because he vaporizes.

I do wish they used someone/something other than Dr. Manhattan as the cause. I just couldn't buy that they'd believe he would do such a thing, at least, as an attack on the world.

The last the world saw was him snapping because he learned he was giving people cancer. He just disappeared. It's reasonable to believe that he may be irrational.

Regarding the ending not being more graphically violent, do you think a lack of bodies everywhere made 9/11 any less horrifying? There was a massive hole in many cities and countless people vaporized out of existence. I have to believe that was significantly horrifying.

[skin87]

Not only did they just see him snapping, but before that he gave the most awkward answers to the questions he was asked. That entire interview showed he was no longer human and would have left people uneasy about his existence, whether they were American or Russian.