Making the switch...suggestions?

[unjust]

I have decided that it is time for me to make the switch and buy a Mac laptop. However, I am unsure on just what model to buy, so I come seeking advice! The following is what I would like to do on the machine:

1) Everyday computing - Writing papers, surfing, etc.
2) Recreational Video Editing / Manipulation - Getting hands on experience with Final Cut (Pro, maybe express).
3) Photo Editing
4) Web Development - Recreational with the potential for future professional applications.

Since this is my first mac, I will be learning as I go. Is it worth it to dish out the cash for a Macbook Pro for my needs, or can I get by with one of the lower-end Macbooks? I would like to spend as little money as possible, naturally, but I am flexible. As of right now I'm between the high end Macbook and low end Macbook Pro.

[ArmpitOfDeath]

If you have to buy a Crapbook and live in happy, carefree (yeah right, only if you buy completely into the dream world of Jobs - which many who don't know better do happily it seems) Apple-land, I'd say the aluminium non-Pro Crapbook would suit your needs the best.

With Apple, the mentality of 'spending as little as possible' will get you into a sub-optimal position more than any other manufacturer. And this is a parable for any computing experience but if you actually figure out what you need and buy for that instead of your budget, it'll lead to a better experience.

The Crapbook will drive external HD screens and at 2Kgs is definitely portable. It's pretty and if you're looking at recreational video editing and are willing to buy a USB camcorder, then the lack of Firewire shouldn't stunt your expectations. Applecare - which you will definitely be making use of, I don't call them Crapbooks for nothing - is cheaper for it, if you're not made of money.

Unless you can specifically pinpoint a need for a discrete GPU, Expresscard and FW800 or the higher-res/bigger screen onboard, I would imagine that the unibody Crapbook would be a more rightsized mobile companion for you.

[tokenuser]

I was underwhelmed with the new Macbook offerings. They pulled features that really made them a good deal.

I might be worthwhile looking at the online Apple store and seeing if you can get a late model refurb. The refurbs are as good if not better than a new model, since they are individually tested to work rather than batch tested to maybe work.

[ArmpitOfDeath]

What features are these? For the uses he mentioned I don't see any real deal-breakers... apart from, of course, that you're buying into Crapbooks.

[tokenuser]

The big one is IEEE 1394 (Firewire).

Its a trade off, the lowend MB (the white poly carb one) still has a firewire port, but runs a 2.0GHz CPU, with a 667MHz front side bus. The bus speed difference between the models isn't significant - but does make a difference.

The old "highend" MB had the faster 2.4GHz CPU. If a refurb comes along (none currently listed) these are a great deal (if you want/need OSX).

The unibody MB might be sexier, and a little faster (due to the FSB), but I don't think it is as good a deal as the old MB models were.

[ArmpitOfDeath]

I did put the firewire qualifier in. It's all crap to me - the even more underengineered (than the current UB) but likely more robust polycarbonate Crapbooks included - so it's relative, but I think for what he's looking for the lack of FW needn't be a dealbreaker, and the IGPU plus the premium (at least) feel of the machine as well as a tendency not to cook itself on demand would be a superior induction to the Jobs Hive-Mind.

Personally if it were up to me and it was going to be my only machine or only notebook, I'd spend a few hundred more and buy a Sony Z, pick up Vegas Platinum & ACDSee for starters... and be done with it. Superior app potential, superior real-world working/playing environment, superior hardware - and unlike Boot Camp, actually runs Windows properly. But that's just me.

[tokenuser]

I did put the firewire qualifier in. It's all crap to me - the even more underengineered (than the current UB) but likely more robust polycarbonate Crapbooks included - so it's relative, but I think for what he's looking for the lack of FW needn't be a dealbreaker, and the IGPU plus the premium (at least) feel of the machine as well as a tendency not to cook itself on demand would be a superior induction to the Jobs Hive-Mind.

Personally if it were up to me and it was going to be my only machine or only notebook, I'd spend a few hundred more and buy a Sony Z, pick up Vegas Platinum & ACDSee for starters... and be done with it. Superior app potential, superior real-world working/playing environment, superior hardware - and unlike Boot Camp, actually runs Windows properly. But that's just me.I like the Sony gear. I also like HP (for business use ...). My wife likes her Thinkpad.

My only reason for getting the MB was because Apple restricted iPhone development to that platform, but since getting the MB it has been pretty good, and the IEE1394 port meant I could ditch the USB connected option I was using under my HP and use the MB instead.

I see the attraction of Apple products. They have the whole "design aesthetic" thing down to an art, but unless its absolutely needed I would still recommend a Windows based platform.

For everything the OP listed, a Windows machine would do the job as well, if not better, and with a wider variety of options ... but on a point by point basis:

1. Everyday computing - OpenOffice will do most of what you need, and the price is right (free). iWorks is a great looking suite of office apps and is well priced too (around $100 - and I particularly like the presentation applicaiton, it leaves Powerpoint for dead). Then you have MS Office in its various flavours. The features in the Mac version tend to be one iteration ahead of the Windows version. Not sure thats a good thing or not.
2. Recreational video edit/creation: Take a careful look at the specs for Final Cut Pro ... I think you might need a MBP, and not just a MB to make use of it, and even then, the lack of IEEE 1394 in the new MBs could be an issue if you want to control the video camera from the application. iMovie and iDVD (part of iLife) are a good starting point for video as well - see how you go with those before plonking down the $$$ for FC.
3. Photo Editting - whatever. GIMP, Photoshop. Its all cross platform or has equivalent programs regardless of OS.
4. Web Dev - another whatever. If you have a notepad app, you can do Web development.

[phatlip]

In the long run, I think you'll be happier with a Macbook Pro. However, if your looking to save some money a Macbook will still suite your needs fine.

I disagree with ArmpitOfDeath in saying the new Macbooks are crap. I think they're excellent machines, but I do agree with him in purchasing Apple Care. Macs are expensive to fix when they break so I would definitely get that.

One thing worth noting is that the hard drive and ram is upgradable. So, don't let these two be the deciding factor when you purchase because you can always upgrade.

Also, if your a student, work for the government or specific corporations, you may be eligible for a discount on the Macbook, Apple Care and other things. I would definitely look into this if I were you.

[ArmpitOfDeath]

Indeed. When they break. Not if as in the case of Sony, Dell, Lenovo, Toshiba, etc etc...

[artfuldodga]

applecare doesn't even cover accidental damage, which is f*cked :P its what stopped me from buying a MacBook to play with, you pay $3000 for something you would think they could protect your investment entirely for at least 3 years

[phatlip]

Indeed. When they break. Not if as in the case of Sony, Dell, Lenovo, Toshiba, etc etc...

Those computers break too. This isn't a "Omg MACS sux LOL" thing. Computers do break. I was just saying Macs are typically more expensive fixes.

[phatlip]

applecare doesn't even cover accidental damage, which is f*cked :P its what stopped me from buying a MacBook to play with, you pay $3000 for something you would think they could protect your investment entirely for at least 3 years

Yeah, it does suck it doesn't cover accidental damage but I honestly don't know any major computer company that has a 3 year free manufacturer warranty. I know others DO have accidental coverage, but none that cover you computer for 3 years without purchasing some sort of coverage.

[ArmpitOfDeath]

Those computers break too. This isn't a "Omg MACS sux LOL" thing. Computers do break. I was just saying Macs are typically more expensive fixes.

100% failure / defect-on delivery rate between (all the current Unibody) the portable Macs I use myself for starters - two Crapbooks, two 15-inch Crapbook Pros, and three 17-inch Crapbook Pros. In fact, the 100% record has been that way for a while.

The highest of the rest - unexpectedly Sony over the last year - is still just below 20%. I've come to the conclusion that the kind of person who can deal with this in their notebooks while actually using them as notebooks without budgeting for (in principle, unnecessary) spares are basically self-obsessed artists, students and suchlike with lots of time on their hands - or people who use them as DTR's and hardly scratch the surface of the machines (literally in most cases, with the babying Apples get).

For me, a usable Crapbook Pro in comparison to an HP Elitebook or a Dell Precision (as compared in this totally laughable fanboy article (http://technologizer.com/2009/03/31/hey-lauren-is-apples-17-inch-macbook-pro-expensive/)) by the same downtime yardstick would actually be a total of three units used in rotation during failures, making the Crapbook actually far, far more expensive than the most fully-specced Precision Covet.

And Applecare isn't free for three years. It's more expensive than other manufacturers on-site business offerings in some cases.

[xcorvis]

100% failure / defect-on delivery rate between (all the current Unibody) the portable Macs I use myself for starters - two Crapbooks, two 15-inch Crapbook Pros, and three 17-inch Crapbook Pros. In fact, the 100% record has been that way for a while.
.

They know who you are and send you the broken ones to enrage you more.

We've bought quite a few (I work at a college) and anecdotally their failure rates are comparable to the Dell Latitudes we also buy. It's rare to get a dud right out of the box.

[phatlip]

100% failure / defect-on delivery rate between (all the current Unibody) the portable Macs I use myself for starters - two Crapbooks, two 15-inch Crapbook Pros, and three 17-inch Crapbook Pros. In fact, the 100% record has been that way for a while.

The highest of the rest - unexpectedly Sony over the last year - is still just below 20%. I've come to the conclusion that the kind of person who can deal with this in their notebooks while actually using them as notebooks without budgeting for (in principle, unnecessary) spares are basically self-obsessed artists, students and suchlike with lots of time on their hands - or people who use them as DTR's and hardly scratch the surface of the machines (literally in most cases, with the babying Apples get).

For me, a usable Crapbook Pro in comparison to an HP Elitebook or a Dell Precision (as compared in this totally laughable fanboy article (http://technologizer.com/2009/03/31/hey-lauren-is-apples-17-inch-macbook-pro-expensive/)) by the same downtime yardstick would actually be a total of three units used in rotation during failures, making the Crapbook actually far, far more expensive than the most fully-specced Precision Covet.

And Applecare isn't free for three years. It's more expensive than other manufacturers on-site business offerings in some cases.

100% failure/defect rate? That's a ridiculous statement you can't prove. I don't believe I ever saw anyone hate a company as much as you.

You misunderstood me about Apple Care. I know it isn't free. I work at an Apple Store. I got the impression that the other poster expected a free 3 year warranty. I stated nobody (that I know of) does that. Including Apple.

[ArmpitOfDeath]

They know who you are and send you the broken ones to enrage you more.

We've bought quite a few (I work at a college) and anecdotally their failure rates are comparable to the Dell Latitudes we also buy. It's rare to get a dud right out of the box.

I've heard similar from others, although I've also heard reports from large 'fleet' managers who say that reliability has been gradually going down into the toilet since the Intel transition. The gap in experience however is that IT support doesn't actually use the machines themselves. I do.

100% failure/defect rate? That's a ridiculous statement you can't prove. I don't believe I ever saw anyone hate a company as much as you.

It's all the same with rabid fanboys - prove this, prove that, dangling completely irrelevant statistics. The irrelevant Rescuecom article last year got dragged out en masse by the fanboys for any reliability discussion for example.

I don't hate the company. They're a company. I think you might misunderstand me. I just don't rate their hardware at all from the position of a more sophisticated - and not exactly poorly resourced - consumer as well as from an industrial design engineering perspective, and also more importantly from the position of someone who actually uses the hardware in what might be termed a 'professional' way - fairly intensive, high-availability, and in the case of the notebooks, truly mobile. I don't care about the Mac Tax in the end - you pay for design. However, design in a product like this is nothing without the engineering to back it up and Apple's products are very deficient in this regard. The only reason that I continue using them is because of my tie to OS X in specific applications which doesn't have a Windows/Linux equivalent that I can use.

I might have a certain degree of amused condescension for a certain type of person whose combination of ego and neediness as well as the yearning to be different in some way means they'll take a bullet for a company which markets best to them.

If I should drop into a forum thread in a Dell board that my M1330 experience was disastrous, every single one I had was repaired multiple times and that I can't recommend it because of some fundamental design problems unless you really like the way it looks / is featured, no-one's going to (or has) jump on me for it. And no-one will scream for proof. The reason for that is that people bought an XPS because it offered what they were looking for and it looked nice - not because it's a way of life ;)

[vst_kills]

Armpit, i think your missing the point here. They want to switch. They are sick of Microsofts shit excuse of an OS. Nothing new has come from MS in years. I understand why you want to switch and you will be more than impressed with a MacBook,especially, like token said, if you can snag a refurb.The GPU and CPU included are more then enough for what you stated and your re-sale value is higher then any shit Sony,Toshiba,Dell, Etc. It will last at least twice as long too. Remember, you get what you pay for. Except in the case of MS ridiculously over priced shit OS.

[ArmpitOfDeath]

and your re-sale value is higher then any shit Sony,Toshiba,Dell, Etc. It will last at least twice as long too. Remember, you get what you pay for. Except in the case of MS ridiculously over priced shit OS.

That's what all the fanboys say. While simultaneously lowballing me on my (frequently sub) year-old shit Apples.

[rabidbadger]

The only thing worse than a mac fanboi is the rabid anti-mac fanboi.

I honestly cannot believe you can't find Windows equivalents of whatever software you feel obligated to use. What aps are they?

[phatlip]

It's all the same with rabid fanboys - prove this, prove that, dangling completely irrelevant statistics. The irrelevant Rescuecom article last year got dragged out en masse by the fanboys for any reliability discussion for example.

I'm not a fanboy, if anyone is a fanboy here it's you.

Your claiming every single solitary Macbook that ships fails which is a ludicrous statement you absolutely can't prove. It's not true. When I called you out on your BS number your suddenly making the argument that "statistics are irrelevant". I suppose statistics aren't irrelevant if it's you throwing out random number you can't back up. Statistics are perfectly fine then. But when it's time to put your money where your mouth is it's irrelevant.



If I should drop into a forum thread in a Dell board that my M1330 experience was disastrous, every single one I had was repaired multiple times and that I can't recommend it because of some fundamental design problems unless you really like the way it looks / is featured, no-one's going to (or has) jump on me for it. And no-one will scream for proof. The reason for that is that people bought an XPS because it offered what they were looking for and it looked nice - not because it's a way of life ;)

If you manage to attack the company whenever you mention them and make claims ridiculous as you did here yes, you will get a similar response.

A way of life? WTF? It's a computer dude.

[phatlip]

The only thing worse than a mac fanboi is the rabid anti-mac fanboi.

I honestly cannot believe you can't find Windows equivalents of whatever software you feel obligated to use. What aps are they?

He uses a Mac but for some reason absolutely hates them. He reminds me of those black guys you hear about every now and then who somehow join the KKK.

The only fanboy I see in this thread is him. He's an anti-mac fanboy.

[ArmpitOfDeath]

I'm not a fanboy, if anyone is a fanboy here it's you.

Your claiming every single solitary Macbook that ships fails which is a ludicrous statement you absolutely can't prove. It's not true. When I called you out on your BS number your suddenly making the argument that "statistics are irrelevant". I suppose statistics aren't irrelevant if it's you throwing out random number you can't back up. Statistics are perfectly fine then. But when it's time to put your money where your mouth is it's irrelevant.



If you manage to attack the company whenever you mention them and make claims ridiculous as you did here yes, you will get a similar response.

A way of life? WTF? It's a computer dude.

You seem to have a comprehension problem with people posting. It was demonstrated in another thread, and now this one. Before you get your inner fanboy riled up, actually bother to read people's posts. I do.

[phatlip]

You seem to have a comprehension problem with people posting. It was demonstrated in another thread, and now this one. Before you get your inner fanboy riled up, actually bother to read people's posts. I do.

I don't have a problem with people posting, but your making ridiculous claims and I'm calling you out on it.

I use Windows, OS X and Linux and don't go around bashing any of these. Care to explain to me how I'm the fanboy here?

[ArmpitOfDeath]

I made no ridiculous 'claims'. My experiences with Apple hardware are ridiculous for sure. Read #13 again.

Here we go again - computoman must be raising a smirk.

You aren't dyslexic are you? Combination of dyslexia and fanboy is a lethal one, but I can make accomodations if that's the case.

[phatlip]

I made no ridiculous 'claims'. My experiences with Apple hardware are ridiculous for sure. Read #13 again.

Here we go again - computoman must be raising a smirk.

You aren't dyslexic are you? Combination of dyslexia and fanboy is a lethal one, but I can make accomodations if that's the case.

I do have a form of dyslexia actually, and I don't appreciate you making fun of it.

If that's what you intended to say, you should have communicated such better.

"100% failure / defect-on delivery rate between (all the current Unibody) the portable Macs I use myself for starters - two Crapbooks, two 15-inch Crapbook Pros, and three 17-inch Crapbook Pros."

I took that as you saying macs have a 100% failure rate, and then you using your own personal experiences to back up your claim. You then went on to talk about the failure rates of other companies. You sure didn't take the time to clarify what your intentions were. Instead, you thought it was much more hilarious making fun of my dyslexia. Good job.

Ps. I'm still waiting for you to tell me how I'm a fanboy.

[ArmpitOfDeath]

I figured as much, and no fun was made - it was simply something I suspected so I asked you. I'll bear it in mind in the future, but do try and read more carefully in the future as it can lead to (even more) unnecessary ill will, especially with you being a fanboy and all.

Re: That, you rush in to defend a company whenever you feel it is being denigrated. How fanboy is that?

And as I posted, the 100% notebook defect / failure rate is *my experience*. Just as the likes of vst_kills have *no* experience of comparable Windows-based hardware. Nowhere will you see it posted that I extend my failure experiences to every Mac shipped - although I do regard the 'superior quality / reliability' myth as even more of a myth as the 'doesn't crash' myth. The only real superiority is in the marketing, and the front, i.e. 'surface' design elements intended to set them apart from the competition - in all elements, but to a large extent in the machines themselves - to people who don't know better.

Think about that. What you - and so many tech journalists incidentally - are essentially doing is rushing in to defend a company because they're really good at marketing and staying on-message. Certainly among the best, if not the best, in the computer field. Bernays must be slapping his thighs in his grave.

[phatlip]

Re: That, you rush in to defend a company whenever you feel it is being denigrated. How fanboy is that?

And as I posted, the 100% notebook defect / failure rate is *my experience*. Just as the likes of vst_kills have *no* experience of comparable Windows-based hardware. Nowhere will you see it posted that I extend my failure experiences to every Mac shipped - although I do regard the 'superior quality / reliability' myth as even more of a myth as the 'doesn't crash' myth. The only real superiority is in the marketing, and the front, i.e. 'surface' design elements intended to set them apart from the competition - in all elements, but to a large extent in the machines themselves - to people who don't know better.

Think about that. What you - and so many tech journalists incidentally - are essentially doing is rushing in to defend a company because they're really good at marketing and staying on-message. Certainly among the best, if not the best, in the computer field. Bernays must be slapping his thighs in his grave.

I don't always rush in and defend Apple. I can't make this any more clear to you.

You were unclear in making your argument and didn't take the time to clarify. This has nothing to do with me not taking the time to read what you posted. You didn't post it was "your experience". You posted:

"100% failure / defect-on delivery rate between (all the current Unibody) the portable Macs I use myself for starters - two Crapbooks, two 15-inch Crapbook Pros, and three 17-inch Crapbook Pros. In fact, the 100% record has been that way for a while."

You said "myself for starters" which indicated to me you were using your own personal experiences as proof to back up your claim. Again, when I brought this to your attention you didn't take the time to clarify which isn't my fault.

I only deafened Apple here as I would any company because I felt what you were saying at the time was complete BS.

I don't praise Apple every time I speak of them nor do I go around always defending Apple. You on the other hand seem to have a very difficult time even mentioning Apple without saying how much you hate the company.

Yep, I'm the fanboy. :rolleyes:

[gus]

The macbooks with lot of upgrades are nice, and so are the standard macbooks. Get the pro if you are going to do a lot of video editing because of the screen, or maybe get the 17" because of the amazing bettery life.

[ArmpitOfDeath]

Another effect of the marketing - I wouldn't call 5:50 in power saving mode (i.e. the 9400M) amazing, as the Dell XPS 16 with a replaceable battery and no power-saving IGP can get 3:50. And that's tested in the same mode of usage.

[tokenuser]

Another effect of the marketing - I wouldn't call 5:50 in power saving mode (i.e. the 9400M) amazing, as the Dell XPS 16 with a replaceable battery and no power-saving IGP can get 3:50. And that's tested in the same mode of usage.I'd be more impressed if the Dell got 5:50 and still had the replaceable battery.

5:50 is pretty damn good performance, but it has been achieved by using a non-standard battery "format" that makes having a removable battery a problem.

[ArmpitOfDeath]

As I said, the Dell doesn't have an IGP - my 5:50 time (vs a claimed 8) is with the 9400M, not the Dell-equivalent 9600M, which cuts about an hour off that time under the same sort of relatively low-impact use. My runtime test is pretty accurate: I've got almost exactly the same actual / claimed ratio on all of the crApple hardware I've bought - which is multiples of every iteration Crapbook Pro released, both iterations of the Crapbook Air, the first Macbook and the last one.

Bearing in mind the cell capacities of both systems (the Dell with the 9-cell) the relative runtime is not surprising actually, but it's the marketing which gives it this mythical 8-hour life, which is complete BS in normal working conditions.

The reason they went non-removable is also related to the fact that having an access panel interrupting the thickness / continuous structure of the notebook would have made the structure too weak - or in the case of Crapples really, even weaker.

[tokenuser]

The reason they went non-removable is also related to the fact that having an access panel interrupting the thickness / continuous structure of the notebook would have made the structure too weak - or in the case of Crapples really, even weaker.No argument. This was definitely a form over function decision, but using the batteries that they did that squeeze into every nook and cranny inside the case rather than a standard 6x or 8x Lion cell array was a great decision.

I actually think one of the best battery designs I ever saw was an external pack that became a carrying handle for the laptop. I wan't to say it was a Sony or an IBM (pre thinkpad) model.

When I got my new HP a couple of years ago, I was really happy with the 3hrs of battery life I was getting. Now I am not so impressed by the 1hr -with almost lightening fast 20% to 0% drain - I get now while using the machine normally.

[unjust]

Thank you all for your input and "lively" discussion. After reading all the comments thus far I am still delightfully stuck in my decision. I want to stay away from a Dell laptop, as my last laptop was a dell (an old Inspirion 5100) and it gave me tons upon tons of problems. Hearing about all the problems with the new macbooks does discourage me a bit. I want a reliable machine that I won't have to worry too much about. Checking http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#MacBook_Pro it seems that an update may be in the somewhat near future. Would it be prudent to hold off until the next line comes out to see if they work out the kinks, or does it really not matter?

[tokenuser]

Any boost on the MBP will be minor since it got a major overhaul recently. If you are going to wait for the next Apple update based on rumours, you are going to be perpetually waiting. Even as the rumour mill ramps up to0 a new model bump, the second wave of rumours emerge about what the model after THAT will have. Bite the bullet and go for it.

Any computer you buy will have issues, and people will tell you horror stories - either first hand, or friend of friend. Take them with a grain of salt. All the top tier manufacturers have about the same failure rate. One advantage Apple has is AppleCare - they really look after you as a consumer, while many extended warranty programs offered through places like Best Buy on laptops they sell are pretty poor.

[phatlip]

Any computer you buy will have issues, and people will tell you horror stories - either first hand, or friend of friend. Take them with a grain of salt. All the top tier manufacturers have about the same failure rate.

Want to hear something really shocking? I've NEVER had a BSOD on any of MY machines. I did have while working on another persons computer, but not once for one of my own.

And that's been from Windows 3.1 and on.

[dirtyhat]

Want to hear something really shocking? I've NEVER had a BSOD on any of MY machines. I did have while working on another persons computer, but not once for one of my own.

And that's been from Windows 3.1 and on.

I also have started with 3.1 and never had a BSOD... until recently. But it was because of a bad disc, causing a corrupted .dll, when I was installing windows 7. Burned a new disc and all was well, so i dont really count that as a true BSOD. Oh and sometimes I set my screensaver as a BSOD... but thats only for laughs when I know other people will be using my machines.

...and i do a lot of tinkering and tweaking with my machines. i'm actually surprised i've never had a BSOD since others seem to claim it's a common occurrence.

[phatlip]

I also have started with 3.1 and never had a BSOD... until recently. But it was because of a bad disc, causing a corrupted .dll, when I was installing windows 7. Burned a new disc and all was well, so i dont really count that as a true BSOD. Oh and sometimes I set my screensaver as a BSOD... but thats only for laughs when I know other people will be using my machines.

...and i do a lot of tinkering and tweaking with my machines. i'm actually surprised i've never had a BSOD since others seem to claim it's a common occurrence.

You know what I have had though? Kernel Panics. Did you hear that fanboys? OS X DOES and CAN crash.

I still think OS X is better than Windows (I don't think Windows is bad, I just prefer OS X) but I have had a few kernel panics in OS X. Not going to lie.

[ArmpitOfDeath]

Thank you all for your input and "lively" discussion. After reading all the comments thus far I am still delightfully stuck in my decision. I want to stay away from a Dell laptop, as my last laptop was a dell (an old Inspirion 5100) and it gave me tons upon tons of problems. Hearing about all the problems with the new macbooks does discourage me a bit. I want a reliable machine that I won't have to worry too much about. Checking http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#MacBook_Pro it seems that an update may be in the somewhat near future. Would it be prudent to hold off until the next line comes out to see if they work out the kinks, or does it really not matter?

Only a minor update - and Apple's build quality over a similar model line doesn't get much better in time, as when they put a new revision even into the same case, new problems occur. I've had different problems every time with every different refresh.

Whether you see these as problems or not really does depend on how much you're sucked in by the marketing, that you bought into something 'better'. I know people who happily go into Apple stores to get their stuff fixed, and are not fuming at all waiting a week for the turnaround. I can understand that weak mentality, I just don't happen to subscribe to it myself - I expect my stuff to be fixed within one day on the (should be, but isn't in the case of Apple) rare occasion that it does break. I can swing this with Apple some of the time due to the sheer volume of Apple gear I've purchased - but it's not a cert and it's always done as a 'favour' which I really hate, so in any case I've found that to get the uptime that I have with any other manufacturer such as Sony's upper-end, Lenovo's T/X and Dell's 'actually Pro' ranges, I have to buy a spare. Which is why I have two Crapbooks, two 15-inch Crapbook Pros and three 17-inch Crapbook Pros (all current models) just for my own use - I have further, older Crapbook Pros (with spares) for work-only use. THAT is my Mac Tax, and one that few fanboys ever consider - basically, double or even three times the upfront investment to get the manufacturer-supported uptime that I have with a Dell Precision, HP Elitebook or similar all with manufacturer-uplifted warranties if you aren't using it as a desk ornament, but for actually portable use with about as much care-in-use as a Dell or HP gets.

The mistake many switchers make when comparing machines is their midrange consumer kit against what Apple has to offer. It's always the same with Apple enthusiasts - they point to how much better their Macs are in comparison to some consumer crap, yet the 'see? No Mac Tax' price comparison is always done against the highest-end machines a rival manufacturer has to offer. The real comparison equivalents on the Windows side are the high-end consumer machines and the midrange / high-end business machines. I've never bought an Inspiron for example because it doesn't offer the level of support or general build I'd be looking for. I do however buy from the Precision and Latitude ranges, and with one large exception (the nightmare M1330, with which I had Apple levels of problems), the XPS range has also not given me any major problems. If not Dell though there are other makers.

You know what I have had though? Kernel Panics. Did you hear that fanboys? OS X DOES and CAN crash.

I still think OS X is better than Windows (I don't think Windows is bad, I just prefer OS X) but I have had a few kernel panics in OS X. Not going to lie.

Ooooh. Mr Overcompensating all of a sudden :p