Playing it over again: Loving RPGs

[webnet]

As I took my copy of Pokemon Platinum out of the shrink wrap and removed Final Fantasy IV from my DS, I noticed something peculiar. The repetitious love/hate relationship I personally have with role playing games. After saving the princess, defending the kingdom, catching them all, or whatever palette swap it may be, the cycle, at times, feels a bit monotonous. I don't mean to say that they are unexciting or boring, but the all foster a similar feeling. While its not really nostalgia but... security or familiarity with the similarity between rpgs, Japanese rpgs in particular. So as I challenge gym leader after gym leader and grind my way to the next level, I wondered if this was something I only felt. So what does everyone else think? Is the copy and paste scheme in rpgs annoying once overly exercised, or is an expected norm, that doesn't detract from each games individual experience?

[lonelyspacepanda]

It sounds like you are describing the limits of the Pokemon series, more than the entire genre of RPGs. Going from Mother 3 to Dragon Quest V to The World Ends with You, there are many leaps in both aesthetics and gameplay. Keep in mind those are only JRPGs. Throw in Valkyria Chronicles and Final Fantasy Tactics from some strategy RPGs, or try some Witcher and Fallout 3 to see what the genre offers outside Japan. It all depends where you look is what I'm trying to imply. Of course there being six Tales of (blank) games this year along with equally stale Pokemon installments doesn't give the genre a good name (not that these games are inherently bad, just trite), but if you look a bit outside the box, you will find some great games that couldn't be more different then the ones you mentioned.

(psst-Might I suggest playing Mother 3 with some strangers. Click link in my signature)

[webnet]

I wasn't only talking about the Pokemon Series. While watching Persona 4 replicate Persona 3 and early Final Fantasy games borrow gameplay, graphics, and some characters (Cid and Chocobo), I noticed some of the games I was playing were extremely similar. Though this might be isolated only to old school jrpgs.

I definitely agree with you concerning The World Ends With You, this was probably the most refreshing experience to come out of Japan in years. An Interesting story set in a real city, characters that were legitimately flawed and seeking redemption, an interesting story with tons of twists, and a final act that royal concluded the adventure. TWEWY is definitely one of my favorite rpgs.

(btw definitely going to join in the mother 3 group)

[dolson]

It's odd to see a post like this complaining about RPGs. Usually it's FPS games that get all the love. :)

[lonelyspacepanda]

(btw definitely going to join in the mother 3 group)
YAY!

Well, the whole point of Persona 4 was that it was basically a better version of 3, so you can't fault it for being more of the same. Persona 2 came out like a decade ago, and Atlus have said that the next Persona won't come out until the next generation of consoles. They aren't exactly milking the franchise, like Tales and Pokemon. So, in the end, I think we are going to be glad we got more of the same while we still could.

[webnet]

It's odd to see a post like this complaining about RPGs. Usually it's FPS games that get all the love. :)
I think the tone of my message is getting a little confused. The title of this post is "Playing it over again: Loving RPGs." I dont hate them, I just noticed a trend they seem to carry.

Concerning Persona 4, I think the additions are great. I am all for enhancing gameplay and making a better experience, I am just saying that I noticed a trend.

Btw - I got everything I need for the Mother 3 group play. Now I just need to catch up with you guys.

[jayfresh]

I was actually just talking about this with Ryan after the Final Fantasy XIII demo news hit yesterday. During the SNES to PS2 generations, Japanese RPG's were one of my favorite genres. Chrono Trigger was one of the first to sweep me off my feet. I remember holding out on buying a PS1 until Final Fantasy VII came out. Final Fantasy XII was the last game to get more than 40 hours out of me.

Now I feel like I've kind of grown out of it. Part of the reason is I just don't have 50 hours to invest in a game anymore and also I did start to feel like the genre was becoming very redundant. The settings may change and I would see tweaks made here and there to a stale, turn-based combat system but, for the most part, I felt like I was doing the same thing over and over again.

For some reason though, I can't wait to play Final Fantasy XIII. Regardless of how much crap I talk about the genre and my frustration with it there's still a part of me that can't wait to see a new world and maybe hopes to get swept off his feet again.

Ryan is letting me borrow a DS and PSP for a while, this is my first time having either one of these systems, and I'm not sure why but, I really want to try out some old-school RPG's on them. If any of you guys have some good suggestions let me know!

[az0madman]

It seems that every generation leap, I play less and less JRPGs. Now it's just basically waiting until the next FF to get me playing. But I have discovered that JRPGs are an extremely nice break from FPS or any tension building games. I actually like that I can go back to a JRPG and just sort of sit back and relax with the game, spending more hours than I would normally play with any other genre.

I don't want to say that it's redundant though unless you're saying that any other genre is redundant in it's own way. Turn-based can only be so varied. At least this generation, there have been a good amount of games where turn-based no longer means standing still, waiting to exchange hits. Crisis Core, TWEWY, and Eternal Sonata (games I've played anyways), require more action on the player's part. Though perhaps it feels redundant because you are spending 30+ hours doing the same thing over and over again, where most other games take less than 15 hours to complete so you don't fall into that hole of repetition.

@jayfresh: Older RPGs? Like FF3/4 remakes on DS old-school? Because those are definitely ones to check out, along with Chrono Trigger. But I guess those are obvious choices.

[lonelyspacepanda]

I think the biggest difference between now and then is that JRPGs used to bring people into gaming. How many people did you know that freaked out when they saw that Final Fantasy VII commercial, back in the day? Now, you give a JRPG to a Wii-friendly person and they'll run the other way. I can hardly blame them, with stuff like Eternal Sonata and Lost Odyssey leading the pack. They're not bad games but they are hardly pushing the edge of narrative or graphics like titles in the genre used to.

@Fresh If you mean old school as in "old school", then you can't get any more old school without literally being old school then Gaudia Quest (which is a 14hour RPG within the DS game Retro Game Challenge). You're ex-1UPer, J. Parish, had nice things (http://www.gamespite.net/verbalspew/archives/entry_1130.php) to say about it. Although when it comes down to it, you should install GBA emulator on your PSP and play Mother 3--the best RPG of this generation (and I've played almost all of them!) Just don't blame the panda when Ryan asks why you bricked his PSP.

[webnet]

@az0madman But when your playing any genre, from puzzle to fps and especially rpgs, you are basically doing the same thing over again. A new weapon to shoot the covenant with or a new enemy to shoot at, a new color block in a puzzle game, a different enemy with a new sprite and stonger attacks, my point is that the game isn't changing, its only getting harder or more complex. And even if RPGs had a major change and gameplay was revolutionized, would we still go back to the old school games with their 'antiquated' gameplay systems? Probably. Maybe the charm in role playing games is their consistence, but at the same time it could be their biggest flaw (redundancy leading to boringness and monotony)

@Jayfresh - check out the Dragon Quest games or some action rpgs like Lunar Knights and Star Ocean First Departure or Second Evolution.

[talkingorange]

After playing the FFXIII demo, that will probably be the first JRPG I've played in years. I actually have WEWY, but I can't get into it. There's too many intricate complexities that I need a FAQ to help me sort out for fear of making "wrong" choices, too many "jobs" to build up, etc. -- essentially it's just that it takes too much of my time. If I had the time to devote to games that I used to I can believe I'd get into it simply because of it's unique approach, but these days I have to have a clearer path to understanding and the arcana approach doesn't appeal as it once did (I'm looking at you, Ultima IV).

[thing2]

It's hilarious really how similar all of these games are. I'm playing through the new Valkyrie Chronicles on the DS right now and it has not only the same play mechanics as the first couple, but is functionally the same as almost every other Strategy RPG I've ever played. Boring text cutscenes (except in the case of Disgaea where they're often chuckle-worthy) tons of party micro-management - buy / sell / compare weapons, armor, and potion....fight again.
-Wash - Rinse - Repeat

Not sure what it says about the human condition that we willingly subject (pay for even) ourselves to the same types of copy/paste content time and again......without a second thought. Perhaps all any of us wants is a slight variation of the things we grew up enjoying.

Which is why publishers keep bankrolling sequels.....Cause...we...buy them.