View Full Version : Dwayne McDuffie & JLA
scootman
04-25-2009, 05:46 AM
an article posted in another group i visit
http://asylums.insanejournal.com/scans_daily/249674.html
thoughts? seems like McDuffie can't do what it wants
A flagship book is supposed to be the best of your line, the book that sums up what you're trying to do with your books. JLA is being treated like a second string book, it's storylines must always defer to other books. It's a recipe for mediocrity. They should cancel the book and give Dwayne a book that he can control.
thenextchampion
04-25-2009, 04:23 PM
Here's the problem with JLA: There's nobody to root for in it. I mean I understand people want the heavy hitters in this group.....but I could care less if the Trinity or other big names arent in it. Sure the JLA is suppose to be the flagship title; and it definitely doesnt feel like it is. But a comic should work no matter who is in the group....and this current group of JLA is just down right boring!
Again I dont mind if this group doesnt have the main heroes in it; it should work on it's own merits. Sort of like the Mighty Avengers line up right now; it has some big members (Hulk, Ant Man), but it also has minor heroes (Hercules). That might not be the best comic out right now; but it certainly has gotten a lot of praise for being a well written series....I cant say for certainty since I dont read it.
So a JLA group could work if the writer could do a better job with the stories.
comicbookchris
04-25-2009, 04:33 PM
But a comic should work no matter who is in the group....and this current group of JLA is just down right boring!...
So a JLA group could work if the writer could do a better job with the stories.
Didn't Keith Giffen mostly populate his Justice League with second tier characters, like Booster Gold, Blue Beetle, Guy Gardner and others? I'm not normally a big DC reader, but years ago when I heard how great this run was, I picked it up and loved it! Booster Gold has become one of my favorite characters! You're right about the writer's talent making the book interesting. I know McDuffie is a good writer and that his run on JLA was marred by constant editorial mandated events, but I think he just threw in the towel and said "What the fuck" and just didn't care what he put out.
thenextchampion
04-25-2009, 04:38 PM
Didn't Keith Gieffen mostly populate his Justice League with second tier characters, like Booster Gold, Blue Beetle, Guy Gardner and others? I'm not normally a big DC reader, but years ago when I heard how great this run was, I picked it up and loved it! Booster Gold has become one of my favorite characters! You're right about the writer's talent making the book interesting. I know McDuffie is a good writer and that his run on JLA was marred by constant editorial mandated events, but I think he just threw in the towel and said "What the fuck" and just didn't care what he put out.
Perfectly stated!
Yes McDuffie has had editorial up his ass for some time now. But guess what McDuffie? It happens to everyone. Maybe not as extreme as your title; but even the best writers in comics get editorial on their case. Has everyone forgotten the hoopla with Morrison and Didio over the end of Final Crisis? Either Morrison had to rewrite the ending completely or add the epilogue to keep Didio happy. It was still a very well written ending and it was a cool moment to see Batman in that cave.
Morrison got around editorial, had to make changes, and still told a wonderful story out of Final Crisis. This doesnt happen in comics only; it happens in film, television, journalism; you name it. So while I can totally respect McDuffie's frustration; he needs to stop complaining about it and make a good story out of these discussions with the editorial staff. It's his name on the writing credit at the end; so it's his reputation that is hurting, not DC's. Just suck it up.
Labor_Days
04-25-2009, 09:36 PM
Its pretty clear McDuffie's legs are being cut from under him in JLA. While I do not think JLA is as bad as people make the title out to be, its not too good either.
McDuffie is good. But DC editorial can't resist putting their dicks in every punchbowl at the party.
CammyKnoxville
04-26-2009, 04:21 PM
I love it whenever JLA comes out, Hannibal Tabu (over at CBR) will constantly praise and love it, no matter how shitty the issue is, because he has such a hard-on for McDuffie.
PaulSharkey
04-26-2009, 06:52 PM
I love it whenever JLA comes out, Hannibal Tabu (over at CBR) will constantly praise and love it, no matter how shitty the issue is, because he has such a hard-on for McDuffie.
While I can’t say he does “it” for me, McDuffie is still a great writer and should be given some freedom to do what he does best and that is team books.
CammyKnoxville
04-26-2009, 07:37 PM
While I can’t say he does “it” for me, McDuffie is still a great writer and should be given some freedom to do what he does best and that is team books.
Don't get me wrong, I like McDuffie on other books (I enjoyed his run on the Fantastic Four), and I too would like to see him on a more free-from-editorial title.
JAFlanagan
04-26-2009, 10:00 PM
On the other side of things, it was put to me by a big comic writer who shant be named, when it was brought up that McDuffie didn't like working on it that, "then he should quit."
Which is sort of true the more I think about it.
thenextchampion
04-26-2009, 10:23 PM
On the other side of things, it was put to me by a big comic writer who shant be named, when it was brought up that McDuffie didn't like working on it that, "then he should quit."
Which is sort of true the more I think about it.
That's something else I dont understand either. If McDuffie hates his job; both spelling it out in his own writing and in interviews; why doesnt he just quit? Didnt Chuck Dixon just quit when he was unhappy with the direction of his work?
miyamotofreak
04-26-2009, 10:45 PM
Maybe he's being promised something with the book. I dunno. Maybe he's leveraging to get what he wants.
scootman
04-26-2009, 11:33 PM
i guess you can say McDuffie should just suck it up, but there's not much to do if you don't have some freedom on the title. we are talking about a guy who wrote some great episodes of Justice League Unlimited. i think he can turn this around. or we all wait for Robinson's JLA mini
thenextchampion
04-27-2009, 02:10 AM
Now this might be a crazy idea from a crazy guy....
*takes a pill*
But does anyone get the feeling McDuffie might be writing bad stories on purpose? You know....to prove a point?
If he is I'll lose a lot of respect for the man.
johnferrigno
04-27-2009, 02:18 AM
Maybe he doesn't quit his job for the same reason I don't quit MY job.......
I got bills to pay.
Labor_Days
04-27-2009, 05:52 AM
Its still his job. We have no way of knowing the specifics of why McDuffie is staying on the title. Rather they be personal or professional- I'm sure he has a reason we are not privy to.
parker84
04-27-2009, 01:28 PM
After reading all of the messages in that post it seems like McDuffie is just relentlessly hopeful. He would have plans and then quickly have to change them, and then quickly have to change those changes.
As far as him quitting, would you quit Justice League? Or would you keep going hoping at some point they let you do what you want? Because if he quits Justice League I would imagine he can kiss his ass goodbye at DC. Whether we still see it as a flagship book or not DC obviously does since they keep roping it into every crossover they can. Quitting a flagship book would only serve to sign your toe tag at any company.
Although I could be completely wrong and they could be just fine with him quitting and give him some other series. But does he have anything else coming out right now? If not I'm sure that factors into him staying on the book as well.
JAFlanagan
04-28-2009, 02:03 PM
The job of a writer is not like other jobs. Your work is your resume, and if you're producing bad work, regardless of the reason, it's going to taint your ability to get future work. You shouldn't put out anything with your name on it that isn't the best thing you can do, and that you're not incredibly proud of.
That's my take on it.
thenextchampion
04-28-2009, 04:04 PM
The job of a writer is not like other jobs. Your work is your resume, and if you're producing bad work, regardless of the reason, it's going to taint your ability to get future work. You shouldn't put out anything with your name on it that isn't the best thing you can do, and that you're not incredibly proud of.
That's my take on it.
If that's the case.....then his reputation is probably down so low....who is gonna take him when (or if) he's done on this?
Labor_Days
04-28-2009, 04:09 PM
Post #17 in this thread OTFM.
winthewonderboy
04-29-2009, 02:24 PM
The job of a writer is not like other jobs. Your work is your resume, and if you're producing bad work, regardless of the reason, it's going to taint your ability to get future work. You shouldn't put out anything with your name on it that isn't the best thing you can do, and that you're not incredibly proud of.
That's my take on it.
You speak the truth.
parker84
05-29-2009, 01:58 PM
So it's official. According to McDuffie ( http://dwaynemcduffie.com.lamphost.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=471 ) the issue that came out this week was his last on JLA. Apparently he was let go not because of the work but because of his comments linked to earlier in this topic. He basically says he revealed too much behind the scenes politics when answering the questions from his fans.
Apparently DC isn't mad enough to let him go completely though as he has a Milestone book he is still working on for them as well as some animated projects.
I really hope we get to see more from him in the future and that he is able to tell the story he is told he can write from the beginning without any last minute take backs like the death of the Hawks.
Dwayne made the mistake of talking about his work on JLA like it's a job. Animation writers always swap tales of network notes and writing for licensed characters. We're well aware that the "toys" belong to someone else. We all tell stories of what we planned to do when the licenser, network, studio said no or wanted a new direction.
But comic companies want to promote the idea of writers creating stories out of their dreams and personal inspirations. They want to say it's art. Well, it IS art but it's also commerce. Dwayne did his best to tell great stories even when he was denied his tools...and toys... of choice. You can tell great stories under commercial limitations. DC just doesn't want people knowing that they're setting such limitations.
brandeezy
05-29-2009, 11:37 PM
The job of a writer is not like other jobs. Your work is your resume, and if you're producing bad work, regardless of the reason, it's going to taint your ability to get future work. You shouldn't put out anything with your name on it that isn't the best thing you can do, and that you're not incredibly proud of.
That's my take on it.
That sounds like a bunch of hogwash to me. I suppose in some perfect world where there are two girls for every guy and everyday there is a pretty rainbow you can just quit your job for purely creative reasons. I don't know, but I would guess that McDuffie has a family, a house, a car note, etc. to take care of.
Being a creative person in a purely commercial industry, more often than not you will be forced to make compromises with your vision.
Did Dwayne ever say he was doing bad work? I haven't reread the quotes but I thought he was mostly saying that he wasn't allowed to tell the stories he wanted. My impression is that he was saying that he was doing his best work, given the circumstances.
Any writer or artist who works for someone else will find themselves in a situation where a schedule is cut short, materials are substandard or work must be changed to fit the artistic taste of another. If you consistently walk away from those jobs, you will soon find yourself with a negative reputation, not a low quality but of someone that can't finish a job. The trick is putting out a quality job, given the limitations. You might have to be less ambitious in order to produce quality work but you have to find a balance.
I guarantee that there are movies you love where the screenwriter had to toss out scenes or dialogue that he considered gold to address concerns of the director or whoever. It's a mental metamorphosis from solitary writer to collaborator.
ConorKilpatrick
05-30-2009, 12:15 AM
That sounds like a bunch of hogwash to me. I suppose in some perfect world where there are two girls for every guy and everyday there is a pretty rainbow you can just quit your job for purely creative reasons. I don't know, but I would guess that McDuffie has a family, a house, a car note, etc. to take care of.
People quit jobs for creative reasons all the time in media.
brandeezy
05-30-2009, 12:24 AM
People quit jobs for creative reasons all the time in media.
...and people stay on jobs that may not be perfect for them for a multitude of reasons. Should Sam Raimi have quit "Spider-Man 3" because of the pressures that Sony was putting on him? I don't know, maybe... but again unless you're making a creator owned project, you can't expect to have total control of a property.
ConorKilpatrick
05-30-2009, 12:47 AM
...and people stay on jobs that may not be perfect for them for a multitude of reasons. Should Sam Raimi have quit "Spider-Man 3" because of the pressures that Sony was putting on him? I don't know, maybe... but again unless you're making a creator owned project, you can't expect to have total control of a property.
I didn't say everyone quits. I said people do.
gabeja
05-31-2009, 06:37 AM
On the other side of things, it was put to me by a big comic writer who shant be named, when it was brought up that McDuffie didn't like working on it that, "then he should quit."
Which is sort of true the more I think about it.
Better to serve in heaven eh?
What happened to that rumor about a Johns/Jim Lee JLA? That would be awesome.
parker84
05-31-2009, 03:13 PM
Better to serve in heaven eh?
What happened to that rumor about a Johns/Jim Lee JLA? That would be awesome.
That would be awesome...in theory. I am all for Johns taking over but Lee has proven he cannot handle a monthly books schedule. Especially now with all of his work on DCU Online.
I would love to see him do a random issue here and there but making him the permanent artist on such a major book would only cause heartache. Even more so knowing that we would be missing out on a Johns JLA story because of him might cause quite a few death threats.
We should find out who the new JLA team will be when the solicits come out at the end of June. Of course they could just throw in some more fill in stuff like they are doing with Len Wein.
bonemachine
06-01-2009, 05:30 PM
That would be awesome...in theory. I am all for Johns taking over but Lee has proven he cannot handle a monthly books schedule. Especially now with all of his work on DCU Online.
.
OFF TOPIC:
Has Jim Lee always been unable to make deadlines? I thought he did a shit load of X Men stuff in the early 90's. was he frequently late at marvel and if so, on average, by how many weeks (months?)
scootman
06-02-2009, 04:49 AM
it's time to turn this book around. it's supposed to be a flagship book. it's one of those books that you should always read when it comes out