Star Trek or The Dark Knight

[C FALC0N]

Which will end up being a bigger movie by the end of the summer of its release:

Star Trek or The Dark Knight


I liked The Dark Knight (little long), but I think Star Trek is Amazing, and if it gets good word-of-mouth, it could have huge potential.

What do you think?

[diane]

Dark Knight

And the main reason is because it was the sequel (these do better) and more importantly it had Heath Ledger. People went not just because of the love of Batman or even the love of action movies, but because this was the "last" Heath Ledger movie.

Now granted, that is not true because of the movie that will be coming out shortly, but that was the perception.

Star Trek was amazing. It was visually stunning and emotionally captivating. It was so wonderful to watch my beloved Spock on the big screen in such a manner. But at the end of the day, Dark Knight had the air of tragedy around it, and that always draws an audience.

[dh_jin]

Really? star trek is that good? it's being compared to dark knight alreadly?

most of my firends are similar to me and never saw anything star trek related in our lives except the futurama referances so most of them have little to no intrest. only after the TRS guys i'm considering watching wasn't even on my radar before though.

and thats the problem i think batman has more main stream appeal, star trek is kinda elitist nerdy kinda stuff.

[gabeja]

Dark Knight. Easy.

[johnnysix]

The films are actually very different. Star Trek has the task of reintroducing these characters again. A better comparison (if any can be drawn) would be Batman Begins.

As much as I loved Batman Begins and even more so The Dark Knight, I think they suffered from being a little bloated, especially The Dark Knight. The Dark Knight, to me, felt like one and a half movies. I'm not sure though that the Joker story could have told as effectively without the Two Face story. The running time of a film in and of itself is largely irrelevant, but the pacing of a film is very important.

After a single viewing, at this stage I would say Star Trek has better pacing than The Dark Knight. It's difficult to compare the films though.

[az0madman]

Agreed that Batman has a more mainstream appeal. I'm still excited to see Star Trek tonight, but the hype that surrounds this compared to DK doesn't compete.

[diane]

The films are actually very different. Star Trek has the task of reintroducing these characters again. A better comparison (if any can be drawn) would be Batman Begins.

As much as I loved Batman Begins and even more so The Dark Knight, I think they suffered from being a little bloated, especially The Dark Knight. The Dark Knight, to me, felt like one and a half movies. I'm not sure though that the Joker story could have told as effectively without the Two Face story. The running time of a film in and of itself is largely irrelevant, but the pacing of a film is very important.

After a single viewing, at this stage I would say Star Trek has better pacing than The Dark Knight. It's difficult to compare the films though.

I agree, this is much more on par with Batman Begins in the function. The pacing is amazing, there were parts in Dark Knight were I going to the bathroom didn't feel like I would be missing anything. Anakin, who normally doesn't make it through any movie without a bathroom run (he never listens to me to go before hand) sat there wiggling out of fear missing something.

As for Star Trek being elite, its on par with Star Wars and Comics. It has a huge fan base that borders on rabid, but there is nothing about it that claims more importance than it is. Aside from the concept that we can all get a long, but even that is more of a goal or else the there would never be a plot and danger.

[Jay_Ray]

Is anyone really thinking that Star Trek can gross more then $500 million in NA? I am sorry but there is no way that happens simply because the hype and publicity DK received before the release mostly stemmed from an actor who died, no movie could buy that type of advertising. Add to the fact it being a truly sensational movie and DK snowballed into a phenomenon. Star Trek can't compete with that.

[ZombiErin]

I think Dark Knight will be bigger, but I liked Star Trek much much more.

[gm_wil]

Anakin, who normally doesn't make it through any movie without a bathroom run (he never listens to me to go before hand) sat there wiggling out of fear missing something.

So what's Anakin think? Which of the two did he like best? Curious to get a kid's point of view . . . as in did it kindle an interest in the Trek for him?

-

[Moeez]

Dark Knight had excellent pacing for such an epic tale, much like The Godfather.

I doubt Star Trek could ever touch the box office of TDK. I haven't seen it, (tonight), but if it has emotional depth and mature themes discussed like Dark Knight and Star Trek TV series, and isn't JUST an entertaining blockbuster with nostalgia, then it might spread for more people. If it's just Star Wars, then hell no, won't touch Dark Knight.

We'll have to see the gross box office after 1st week.

[scoobydiesel]

Like some have said Star Trek was more like Batman Begins and i see the next Star Trek having alot more power in the money making.

Given i still highly agree about Ledger being a main reason TDK did so well.

Still both are great movies IMO.

[poltah]

I don't think Dark Knight had that deep themes. And even if it did, it dealt with them a bit heavy handed.

Still. No chance Star Trek will touch Dark Knight box office wise.

[gm_wil]

I haven't seen Trek as of yet, but every single person I've talked to said they are gonna go see it again for sure. Maybe Trek will make up for the lower number of people viewing it with the number of people seeing it more than once because of its rewatchability (TRS'ism) fun factor?

I think it's gonna give DK a run for its money.

-

[C FALC0N]

Interesting....

This thread was about to be Star Trek vs Iron Man - maybe that would have been a better debate :-)


I know I am going to see Star Trek again - For Sure.

[diane]

So what's Anakin think? Which of the two did he like best? Curious to get a kid's point of view . . . as in did it kindle an interest in the Trek for him?

-

He had fun. He LOVED Scotty. And he asked if he could join the Star Fleet. He also totally adored older Spock. When we were out, he said "I see why you had a crush on him when you were young - but he was younger back then too, right?"

[gm_wil]

He had fun. He LOVED Scotty. And he asked if he could join the Star Fleet. He also totally adored older Spock. When we were out, he said "I see why you had a crush on him when you were young - but he was younger back then too, right?"

LOL - Awesome

-

[poltah]

I really dug the Spock character as well. Really liked him. How close are the Spock anno 2009 to the classic Spock?

[stayambiguous]

Star Trek was amazing, had a great pace, and I loved every minute of it. It does what an amazing film does, have everything going for it at once. It has the Trekie appeal, amazing effects that weren't overdone, a surprisingly great soundtrack/score, fantastic acting, great comedic aspects, suberb action, ect ect.

I can see it maybe reaching above half of what Dark Knight pulled in, because of what everyone else has said, the Heath effect, and the fact that Batman is such a house hold name, contrasting Star Treks "geek-ness".

But in my opinion Star Trek was a better movie.

[Moeez]

Came back from seeing Star Trek. I can't believe I saw the film that you guys did, because it didn't impress whatsoever.

It was OK. I hate to be that guy.

It really felt like an action movie involving Star Trek characters. It had the best and worst of Michael Bay movies. If this is what people have been calling "the best Trek movie", then I'm guessing the rest were rubbish or directed by Uwe Boll. Never seen 'em, just watched the tv series. I'm guessing most people who liked it, probably only did because they did fanboy nostalgia to the characters with some good casting even if characterisation was limp (except for 3).

It had nothing of why I would watch Star Trek, but hey, maybe all the Star Trek movies were like filler episodes until the next season, who knows.

And people are SERIOUSLY comparing this to Dark Knight?! Star Trek had a lot of problems, but it was a generally good time at the cinema, and taking out the family to see it was a nice distraction. That's just my 2 cents.

[EddieLee]

Dark Knight hands down.

I really hope Star Trek does well because I loved it, but it probably won't be able to shake the nerdy stigma and attract enough non-geek viewers.

[Moeez]

I don't think Dark Knight had that deep themes. And even if it did, it dealt with them a bit heavy handed.

Still. No chance Star Trek will touch Dark Knight box office wise.
You're kidding me? Themes of absolute chaos as the Joker, this unstoppable force that the world has never seen? Themes of trust and betrayal with the Two Face arc? Unrequited love with Batman and his love interest, with the letter? Leaving the fate of a whole ship of people to either live or die? The moral consequences? The theme of having a superhero ACTUALLY live in our world?

Go watch it again, seriously. It's a masterpiece, that's not just a summer blockbuster event. There's a lot to take from it, much like other Nolan flicks.

[aerodash84]

I think Star Trek will do fine, but I wouldn't compare it to Dark Knight. DK I think was lightening in a bottle. Had a lot of great things for it, but Batman Begins was moderately succesful in theaters. I don't think there will be a movie like Dark Knight again for awhile. It might be this year's Iron Man if anything, but I hate comparing and would rather enjoy them all. I mean we could not be getting these kinds of movies.

[diane]

I don't think Dark Knight had that deep themes. And even if it did, it dealt with them a bit heavy handed.

Still. No chance Star Trek will touch Dark Knight box office wise.

Uh, the Joker actually was a walking talking ethics course with a bit of philosophy thrown in. He started small but took the audience through about 7 actual ethical "problems" that are debated throughout society to determine what humanity is and capable of, and ultimately how to tame the worst in us and bring out the best.

Not to mention dealing with the concepts of self-sacrifice, the role of torture in interrogation, the ideas of luck and fate, and my personal favorite, how fandom and popularity can be misplaced, misguided and be destructive.

The fact that you didn't notice any of these themes says either that you were too busy making out or something ;) or that they did a very good job at providing an entertaining story first. Though there were themes that were very heavy handed (surveillance of citizens, the ramification of choices, etc), at the end of the day, its a comic book movie, and well, comic books by their very nature are, heavy handed. Its a guy in a mask and a cape for pete's sake, subtlety is not going to be that present.

What I love is this, that two of the three biggest male characters that were a part of my childhood, and ultimately helped shaped both who I am and who I am attracted to, I have had the immense pleasure of seeing portrayed so well on the big screen recently, Batman and Spock. The fact that I can share these experiences with my son only helps to make the whole experience even better.

[krypt]

Interesting....

This thread was about to be Star Trek vs Iron Man - maybe that would have been a better debate :-)


I know I am going to see Star Trek again - For Sure.

Completely agree, I think the Star Trek vs Iron Man is a much more fair and apt comparison to be making.

[Moeez]

Really? You guys thought Spock was done well? I thought the writers made him go through too much emotions and very un-Spock characterizations, like the Uhura-Spock crap.

I was very surprised and relieved when Future Spock came, and I realised how Zachary Quinto will never match the coldness and charisma of Leonard Nimoy, even though I'm no Trekkie and can still recognise that.

[diane]

Really? You guys thought Spock was done well? I thought the writers made him go through too much emotions and very un-Spock characterizations, like the Uhura-Spock crap.

I was very surprised and relieved when Future Spock came, and I realised how Zachary Quinto will never match the coldness and charisma of Leonard Nimoy, even though I'm no Trekkie and can still recognise that.

I take it you never saw the pilot episode where they introduce the original cast (not the pilot pilot with Pike but the first ep with Kirk). Spock cries...a lot.

As a loyal OST fan, I think you are latching onto the popular culture version of Spock not the actual portrayal from the original show. Yes, he was logical, but he was NEVER cold.

[Moeez]

I take it you never saw the pilot episode where they introduce the original cast (not the pilot pilot with Pike but the first ep with Kirk). Spock cries...a lot.

As a loyal OST fan, I think you are latching onto the popular culture version of Spock not the actual portrayal from the original show. Yes, he was logical, but he was NEVER cold.
Did he punch people a lot, too?

[Jay_Ray]

Did he punch people a lot, too?

He did try to kill Kirk, que fight music

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyhhFzE5O5U

[diane]

Did he punch people a lot, too?

Well, in the original, his mother was still alive and so was his entire planet. No matter how logical you are, one would think seeing your mother die in front of you, especially when you tried to save her, would push some buttons.

And yes, he did. Anytime it was called for, he had no problem hitting.

[diane]

He did try to kill Kirk, que fight music

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyhhFzE5O5U

Why does that music always pop in my head anytime a bachelor commercial would come on?

[johnnysix]

With the whole Spock relationship thing, that was initially one of my only slight hesitations about this film. Now that I've had more time to digest it, I actually think it's a good thing. Dianne is correct, Spock was never cold. If you look at Spock / Data / Seven of Nine in the shows you can see that they've all had arcs that show that they respect the human emotional traits. Spock, especially being half human has always had a respect for this aspect of Kirk's captaincy. Plus, if you are just going to stick religiously to the original material and just re-hash waht's already been done, what's the point of doing it? I can understand if this film is meant to fit in with the entire continuity of Trek, but the whole point is that it doesn't. It's a great opportunity to see a slightly different take on these characters.

[Moeez]

The big reason why Star Trek won't come close to Dark Knight box office...

Star Trek is an action movie, once you see it once, you've seen it all. There's nothing to take from it, the action scenes aren't anything to see again. It's nowhere as deep as Dark Knight, so you don't need to see it again to get the plot, characters, themes, etc.

So from my weak predictions, it'll go down after the 1st or 2 weeks when all the fanboys have seen it, much like Watchmen, and make Iron Man money, or maybe less because the action scenes are not as good.

[masherscf]

I better comparison would be Star Trek V. Batman Begins. Batman Begins petered out at about a $200M domestic gross. I expect the same for Star Trek. But, that should be enough to guarantee a sequel. The sequel might do the half-billion gross that The Dark Knight enjoyed.

[Moeez]

I better comparison would be Star Trek V. Batman Begins. Batman Begins petered out at about a $200M domestic gross. I expect the same for Star Trek. But, that should be enough to guarantee a sequel. The sequel might do the half-billion gross that The Dark Knight enjoyed.

See, I can't see the sequel even touch Dark Knight gross unless if the movie's any deeper than this one (or if there are more cameos like Shatner). Or if the action scenes are amazing. Or if it has a complicated plot. Repeat viewings only happen for movies if they have that, like Matrix films or Iron Man, because it has great action sequences and great pacing.

[johnnysix]

I think Star Trek has more appeal to women and kids than The Dark Knight. I don't think it'll get near TDK in box office, only because of the Ledger situation. Box Office isn't necessarily an indicator of a good movie. I wasn't aware that this thread was talking purely about box office.

[poltah]

I think Star Trek has more appeal to women and kids than The Dark Knight. I don't think it'll get near TDK in box office, only because of the Ledger situation. Box Office isn't necessarily an indicator of a good movie. I wasn't aware that this thread was talking purely about box office.

You really think Star Trek has more appeal to kids than Batman?

[diane]

You really think Star Trek has more appeal to kids than Batman?

Actually yes, mainly because the themes in Batman are more adult than Star Trek. Plus Space is cool.

[johnnysix]

You really think Star Trek has more appeal to kids than Batman?

Especially Nolan's Batman. The Dark Knight isn't exactly the most kid friendly version of the caped crusader we've ever seen.

[poltah]

Especially Nolan's Batman. The Dark Knight isn't exactly the most kid friendly version of the caped crusader we've ever seen.

I agree that it's a more violent and bloody movie. But we're talking box office here. I really think more kids wanted to see Batman than Star Trek.

I know what I was interested in when I was a kid, and it wasn't Spock.

[diane]

I agree that it's a more violent and bloody movie. But we're talking box office here. I really think more kids wanted to see Batman than Star Trek.

I know what I was interested in when I was a kid, and it wasn't Spock.

Want versus ability are very different. I knew a lot of parents who refused to take their kids because of how Two Face appeared in the preview.

What I think is being missed is that both of these properties have and will continue to do incredibly well. The true test will be DVD sales, not box office sales. Dark Knight had a HUGE edge simply because of the horrible loss of Ledger. Box office sales do seem to be inflated because of the macabre of that event. What really will gauge is how many people are willing to own it. Its one thing to go see it in the theater so you can be part of the "did playing the Joker cause him to want to kill himself" water cooler talk which was the main topic for a the entire month surrounding the release of the Dark Knight in every tabloid and celeb rag at the supermarket, its something entirely to truly want to own it. We already know the Dark Knight's DVD sales for the first 6 months after release, we will have to wait and see how Star Trek plays out.

Though over 75 million opening is incredibly well for a reboot of a tv show.

[rasalpool]

Want versus ability are very different. I knew a lot of parents who refused to take their kids because of how Two Face appeared in the preview.

What I think is being missed is that both of these properties have and will continue to do incredibly well. The true test will be DVD sales, not box office sales. Dark Knight had a HUGE edge simply because of the horrible loss of Ledger. Box office sales do seem to be inflated because of the macabre of that event. What really will gauge is how many people are willing to own it. Its one thing to go see it in the theater so you can be part of the "did playing the Joker cause him to want to kill himself" water cooler talk which was the main topic for a the entire month surrounding the release of the Dark Knight in every tabloid and celeb rag at the supermarket, its something entirely to truly want to own it. We already know the Dark Knight's DVD sales for the first 6 months after release, we will have to wait and see how Star Trek plays out.

Though over 75 million opening is incredibly well for a reboot of a tv show.

The Dark Knight is rated PG-13 Like Star Trek . I just don't see anyone could say star trek is more popular than Batman . Its open weekend barely made more money than the Dark Knights opening day . The hype for the next batman movie is still a lot bigger than star trek

[siraim]

The Dark Knight is rated PG-13 Like Star Trek . I just don't see anyone could say star trek is more popular than Batman . Its open weekend barely made more money than the Dark Knights opening day . The hype for the next batman movie is still a lot bigger than star trek

This is still missing the point. What were the expectations going into 'Batman Begins'? 'The Dark Knight' had a boatload of anticipation because Nolan did so well with his reboot. If 'Batman Begins' was a flop, 'The Dark Knight' would have had a harder time being the movie it was. The same will be said of the eventual J.J. Abrams sequel to 'Star Trek'. The sequel should do significantly better at the box office.

Batman is a great franchise and it's a universally known franchise. So is Star Trek. Both are cultural icons and both resonate with millions of people. Saying one is more popular than the other does a disservice to them both.

I'd be willing to bet that the pop culture version of Batman that is universally known is not the brooding dark icon we all know and love. It is most likely the campy 60s TV show Batman that many people grew up with. That same cultural base is where Star Trek gathers most of its pop culture love.

[hank41]

The Dark Knight. TDK had so much anticipation and expectations, so when a movie blows away extremely high expectations, it is special. Not as many people had high expectations for Star Trek. I think TDK is slightly better, but it really caught the public attention in a way that i don't think Star Trek will

[hank41]

I agree that it's a more violent and bloody movie. But we're talking box office here. I really think more kids wanted to see Batman than Star Trek.

I know what I was interested in when I was a kid, and it wasn't Spock.

well, lots of parents are more objected to sex than violence. something Star Trek has and TDK doesn't. TDK is more violent, but most parents don't care as much about that anymore

[poltah]

But the question was which had more appeal for kids. Not what movie is most suited for kids.

[Moeez]

But the question was which had more appeal for kids. Not what movie is most suited for kids.
It's pretty easy to say a badass vigilante hero with awesome gadgets is more appealing to kids, than adults in funny schoolboy outfits who talk a lot in a spaceship. Considering how Star Trek has the stigma of being for much older people, grandpa nerds, than Batman is, who ironically is much older from the '30s.

[poltah]

It's pretty easy to say a badass vigilante hero with awesome gadgets is more appealing to kids, than adults in funny schoolboy outfits who talk a lot in a spaceship. Considering how Star Trek has the stigma of being for much older people, grandpa nerds, than Batman is, who ironically is much older from the '30s.

What?

[diane]

It's pretty easy to say a badass vigilante hero with awesome gadgets is more appealing to kids, than adults in funny schoolboy outfits who talk a lot in a spaceship. Considering how Star Trek has the stigma of being for much older people, grandpa nerds, than Batman is, who ironically is much older from the '30s.

So you are stating that kids are aware of a stigma that adults have? Dude, how much time do you spend around kids under 14, cause I don't know any at all who were aware of stigma from the old show that were not in turn aware of the campy 60s Batman (in essence my son and one friend of his who Anakin had spend the night and they watched the Batman Movie -Adam West version). And for over 14, its called kitch and therefore its okay to watch because if its good then its good, if its not, then you went so you can see how bad it really was and made fun of it.

Second, if there is ever an age group who is willing to embrace a reboot its kids. Transformers, GI Joe, Spiderman, Batman, even Hulk, all are products that have had reboots that had a campy or "my parents watched it" version that they are willing to embrace.

Honestly, to me it would be more appropriate to compare Star Trek and Star Wars I since both were new takes on a hugely geeky property, heavily marketed to kids and in many ways and had a stigma attached.

Batman the movies has never had the stigma of geekdom attached as do both Star Wars and Star Trek, just the comics.

[poltah]

That's not at all what I'm saying.

People were talking box office. I just said that I think kids would be more likely to go see Batman, than Star Trek. If they could decide for themselves.

[hank41]

But the question was which had more appeal for kids. Not what movie is most suited for kids.

i think that it is unquestionable that Star Trek is more suitable for kids

[rasalpool]

i think that it is unquestionable that Star Trek is more suitable for kids

What young kids watches star trek when they are young ? Star Trek is geared towards teenagers and adults

[gm_wil]

Star Trek is geared towards teenagers and adults

Star Trek doesn't have gears . . . it's called a warp core.







(I am gonna "boo-hiss" myself for that stinker)

-

[stubadub]

What young kids watches star trek when they are young ? Star Trek is geared towards teenagers and adults

I remember watching Star Trek pretty much daily when I was in 5th grade, and I remember watching it a lot before that. From Wrath of Kahn on I had my parents take me to see the movies in the theaters, up until I could manage to get there myself. I also remember having Star Trek conversations with some of my friends in school back then. I actually lost a bit of interest in Star Trek by the time I was a teenager. I'm not saying I'm the average case, but I don't think it is unlikely that kids will be interested in the franchise.

[stayambiguous]

While TDK was an epic movie, and not many movies will be able to touch it for a long time. I think it is VASTLY overrated. But before you go to defend it, the movie being overrated isn't completely a bad thing. But its still true.

Due partly to the Ledger effect, word of mouth, overhype, a good prequel, Batman's status as an american icon, and also Christian Bale's movie star status. All of these added up to create this huge summer blockbuster, and it brought in enormous profit. I'm not saying it was bad or unenjoyable, I saw it 3 times and although it became a weary ride, it was still great. I just want to express that its not the best movie thats been out lately, there have been greater movies, with much more meaningful themes and better acting ect, ect.

What I think Dark Knight did so well at, was happening at the perfect time, in the perfect place, with the perfect people. I could go on, but I tend to rant when no one cares. But to bring this back to the actual thread, Star Treck was a fantastic movie, and some people are going to love it, some are not.

But to compare a great new movie to a movie that has already settled itself into millions of people's minds as one of the greatest films of the new century, its not gonna shift many stones.

[Moeez]

I don't see many other movies with more meaningful or abstract themes as there are in Dark Knight. It's the film Michael Mann wish he made, after Heat and Collateral. I can see Dark Knight easily being used in schools in philosophy and moral ethics courses, because of the multiple scenarios in the movie.

[mrhaines]

The Dark Knight most likely because Star Trek has a reputation as being geeky and nerdy. Its unfortunate though because Star Trek was by far a better movie.

[ForkFromOuterSpace]

I too enjoyed Star Trek more than TDK. Super hero movies are just boring and cliche to me.

[rabidbadger]

I say: what comes around goes around (http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1910892). They are all the same. ;)