Keying

[ryansz]

I don't know if this is me or not. When Mike took over I have noticed that the video looks a little more 'muddy' on close ups. Not a huge deal I was just wondering what might be the cause. Different keying software or camera switch?

[darknessgp]

I don't know if this is me or not. When Mike took over I have noticed that the video looks a little more 'muddy' on close ups. Not a huge deal I was just wondering what might be the cause. Different keying software or camera switch?

I think it's because they do all the zooming during post. I'm fairly certain when they film, he just leaves it at the wide shot and then adjusts when he needs to later.

[dh_jin]

i always wondered about that, did steve have like multiple cameras for the zoom in bits?

[masherscf]

i always wondered about that, did steve have like multiple cameras for the zoom in bits?

Steve pioneered the single camera technique. TRS is and always has been shot with a single camera. The backgrounds are blurred on the close-ups to simulate different focal length lenses.

I suspect that their new camera compresses things differently than Steve's, so there is a change in the quality of the zoomed video.

[dh_jin]

woah? that like mindfucked me a little. single camera? but how? with so quick swaps between guys and like always at an angle?

thats like freaking awesome? Steve just became even more cooler. *sniff* i miss that Face of Fire god? lol maybe mike should be a blue fire? or at least a different colour if ever we get a shot of him?

[kzap]

I don't know if this is me or not. When Mike took over I have noticed that the video looks a little more 'muddy' on close ups. Not a huge deal I was just wondering what might be the cause. Different keying software or camera switch?
Yes, like I said in another thread they need to blur the mat (and no one make the Heroes joke again), if someone can find the thread I can point to my explanation, I think it was called 'Video Quality' or something any way the problem seems to fixed now.

[kzap]

woah? that like mindfucked me a little. single camera? but how? with so quick swaps between guys and like always at an angle?
It's just a digital zoom in, he doesn't actually zoom with the camera he just stretches the image, it's not hard.
If you have the right program (that start at only like $100 maybe more for keying as well) it's as easy stretching an image in photohop.
Not saying the rest of Mike's job is easy though, just say, if I lived in the right part of the US he would have had some competition :D.
He is doing a great job though, three cheers for new guy!

[kzap]

I think it's because they do all the zooming during post. I'm fairly certain when they film, he just leaves it at the wide shot and then adjusts when he needs to later.
If we thinks like me, then he uses the digital zoom in to hide a cut, if you just cut a bit out people will notice the guys jump (or cut) in there seats, if you zoom in to a close up it's harder for people to notice as the camera has moved as well.
If that makes sense.
I assume they would zoom in for other reason as well.

[tokenuser]

It's just a digital zoom in, he doesn't actually zoom with the camera he just stretches the image, it's not hard.He doesn't stretch the image.

The camera is left focused on all three of the guys. It remains in place. Doesn't move, doesn't zoom, doesn't get refocused. Its a standard 16:9 widescreen format.

In production virtual cameras are set up that monitor a region of the total image and effectively "crop" the image down to correspond.

So in effect you get a "wide view" of all three guy, a zoomed view of middle plus left person, a zoomed view of middle plus right person. You can also have separate head and shoulder shots set up as virtual cameras as well.

I guess you could consider the digital zoom in post production as a stretch ... but in this context it loses a lot of that meaning.

Since the cropped image is overlaid on a 16:9 background I guess the actual aspect of the virtual images is immaterial, since the image gets zoomed for the shot anyway.

[joeyrock]

The key/matte is fine.. there were problems with it before but Mike fixed that. Look at the last episode and even around Alex's hair it's fairly crisp. The reason why the image still looks blurry is because the camera they currently have isn't as good as the one Steve was using. On Mikes twitter it did stay he has a 5D mark II. He should totally do one show using that :p

[kzap]

He doesn't stretch the image.

The camera is left focused on all three of the guys. It remains in place. Doesn't move, doesn't zoom, doesn't get refocused. Its a standard 16:9 widescreen format.
That's what I meant by stretch, scales would be another word, digital zoom, push in, but the camera remains still.
Crop would be a bad choice word because (to me any way) it implies the size of the image is staying the same you are just cropping off the sides with black.
The fact is they are zooming in AFTER the show is shot is not very fast at zooming on one camera or has multiple camera he is doing something in the edit to bring expand the size of the image so only part of it fills the screen, the aspect ratio doesn't change but it is being stretched or expanded.

[cucumberboy]

My backgrounds don't do well in blurred form :(

[tokenuser]

That's what I meant by stretch, scales would be another word, digital zoom, push in, but the camera remains still.
Crop would be a bad choice word because (to me any way) it implies the size of the image is staying the same you are just cropping off the sides with black.
The fact is they are zooming in AFTER the show is shot is not very fast at zooming on one camera or has multiple camera he is doing something in the edit to bring expand the size of the image so only part of it fills the screen, the aspect ratio doesn't change but it is being stretched or expanded.The thing is, its a green screen, and the virtual cameras are set to a 16:9 aspect as well. You are still effectively cropping the picture to a specific area of the master image, and playing it at full size with the "imitation focus blur" in the background.

[snoopmikey]

Hey guys - a couple of things about how the show is shot and how I edit etc.

First of all, right now we're shooting with a Sony HD camera... however, it's older than what Steve had at the end of his editing tenure. This is the primary reason for the blurriness with the single close-ups. We're exploring other options to bump up the quality. The new kinos for the lighting has improved things considerably and it'll only get better!

I did order a Canon 5D Mark II, but have had to swap it out 3 times now because of stuck pixels in the video mode (bummer). They're in huge demand and I'm still waiting for a new one. Once I get it, we'll do some tests, but the biggest problem is a 12 min max each time you hit record. Which is a problem for us, cuz we usually go well over 12 minutes in a segment!

So anyway, we shoot one wide shot for each segment at 1080i. I take the footage and bring it into a 720p Motion project where the chroma key effect is applied. This is also where all the graphics and other fun goodies are added. I end up creating 6 virtual cameras by creating separate Motion projects - wide, "2 shots," and singles - with different levels of scaling and blur to the background. This creates the effect of a different angle when in fact it's the same shot, just zoomed in. Each "angle" is then brought into Compressor to be rendered. Each angle takes roughly an hour to render, even on my 8-core Mac Pro. So, as you can see, it takes all day Saturday and into Sunday to render out all the angles.

Then I take the rendered angles into Final Cut and create Multiclips of the 6 angles, allowing me to watch and cut between the different angles in real-time.

All of this genius post process is Steve's creation and works extremely well. Right now it's the only cost-effective way to make the show dynamic with multiple angles, when we only have the means to shoot with one camera.

So there ya go... probably would make a good behind-the-scenes video... Hmmmmm. :)

[kzap]

Hey guys - a couple of things about how the show is shot and how I edit etc.

First of all, right now we're shooting with a Sony HD camera... however, it's older than what Steve had at the end of his editing tenure. This is the primary reason for the blurriness with the single close-ups. We're exploring other options to bump up the quality. The new kinos for the lighting has improved things considerably and it'll only get better!

I did order a Canon 5D Mark II, but have had to swap it out 3 times now because of stuck pixels in the video mode (bummer). They're in huge demand and I'm still waiting for a new one. Once I get it, we'll do some tests, but the biggest problem is a 12 min max each time you hit record. Which is a problem for us, cuz we usually go well over 12 minutes in a segment!

So anyway, we shoot one wide shot for each segment at 1080i. I take the footage and bring it into a 720p Motion project where the chroma key effect is applied. This is also where all the graphics and other fun goodies are added. I end up creating 6 virtual cameras by creating separate Motion projects - wide, "2 shots," and singles - with different levels of scaling and blur to the background. This creates the effect of a different angle when in fact it's the same shot, just zoomed in. Each "angle" is then brought into Compressor to be rendered. Each angle takes roughly an hour to render, even on my 8-core Mac Pro. So, as you can see, it takes all day Saturday and into Sunday to render out all the angles.

Then I take the rendered angles into Final Cut and create Multiclips of the 6 angles, allowing me to watch and cut between the different angles in real-time.

All of this genius post process is Steve's creation and works extremely well. Right now it's the only cost-effective way to make the show dynamic with multiple angles, when we only have the means to shoot with one camera.

So there ya go... probably would make a good behind-the-scenes video... Hmmmmm. :)

YAY! A reply from the man himself, thanks.
If you don't mind my asking why don't you just edit the angles and cuts first then apply the green-screening that way it only renders the shots needed.

[joeyrock]

I did order a Canon 5D Mark II, but have had to swap it out 3 times now because of stuck pixels in the video mode (bummer). They're in huge demand and I'm still waiting for a new one. Once I get it, we'll do some tests, but the biggest problem is a 12 min max each time you hit record. Which is a problem for us, cuz we usually go well over 12 minutes in a segment!



That's a bit of a bummer. Have you heard about the Panasonic GH-1?

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0903/09030316lumixgh1handson.asp

It shoots some amazing looking video, 24p, has stereo audio in.. auto focus and aperture/shutter speed control whilst shooting.

http://www.vimeo.com/4582107

[johnnysix]

Great to hear how it's done. Thanks for the input Mike.

[snoopmikey]

If you don't mind my asking why don't you just edit the angles and cuts first then apply the green-screening that way it only renders the shots needed.

I hear what you're saying and have thought about that to minimize the render time, but basically, to edit the different angles together in Final Cut using the Multicam function, I would still need to prep the angles (apply the zoom in) and render them out... might as well add the chroma key and blur the background while I'm at it. Overall it makes the actual edit of the show, which happens on Sunday, so much easier.

[snoopmikey]

That's a bit of a bummer. Have you heard about the Panasonic GH-1?

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0903/09030316lumixgh1handson.asp

It shoots some amazing looking video, 24p, has stereo audio in.. auto focus and aperture/shutter speed control whilst shooting.

http://www.vimeo.com/4582107

Yeah that looks like an awesome camera! I wish they would have implemented some of those features into the Mark II. The GH-1 is a micro four thirds camera, which means it's more compact and takes a whole other class of lenses. The Mark ii is a phenomenal DSLR that has a full frame sensor, which makes using existing canon lenses a dreeeam. Hopefully Canon will release some new firmware that'll enable 24p shooting and longer recording like the GH-1...