Terminator: Salvation

[quantumtheory]

Saw it yesterday. It was good I suppose. It definitely wasn't bad. But it was a decent Terminator movie. There's most likely going to be another one, which isn't that bad. Only thing I can say negatively about it was some of the script writing was meh, and the acting along with that was meh as well. But it's not too terrible. I had fun watching it though.

(didn't see an updated thread anywhere so I started a fresh one!)

[phssthpok]

It definitely wasn't bad

Wow really. Most reviews I see consider it it a suckfest. Rotten Tomatoes gives it a 34%. I knew that going into it and still it was disappointing. It made T3 look like T2. There's a CGI Arnold in it but that's the only cool thing. I wished I went to see Trek again.

Don't bother.
Wait
You'll hear from someone else that it was bad and thank me I saved you the money and time.

[gm_wil]

I do have to say the sound was absolutely amazing . . .

It's worth a matinee

(They could have done without the pilot chic)

-

[sugarsickness]

how disappointing. Havent seen i but I'm not hearing good things. :<

[skin87]

Wow really. Most reviews I see consider it it a suckfest. Rotten Tomatoes gives it a 34%. I knew that going into it and still it was disappointing. It made T3 look like T2. There's a CGI Arnold in it but that's the only cool thing. I wished I went to see Trek again.

Don't bother.
Wait
You'll hear from someone else that it was bad and thank me I saved you the money and time.

Yea, but if you click on RT community it has a 72%. This is just a movie where there is a disconnect from film critics and film fans. By no means is it a smart movie, but it is a really fun movie which I think is totally worth seeing.

[marblegarden]

I really enjoyed the movie I give it 7/10

btw, Sam Worthington and David Prager(rev. founder) look alike !

[trunolimit]

btw, Sam Worthington and David Prager(rev. founder) look alike !

so random


my friend says it wasn't good but he also thought watchmen was the worst movie ever. so take his reviews with a grain of salt

[darknessgp]

Saw it yesterday. It was good I suppose. It definitely wasn't bad. But it was a decent Terminator movie. There's most likely going to be another one, which isn't that bad. Only thing I can say negatively about it was some of the script writing was meh, and the acting along with that was meh as well. But it's not too terrible. I had fun watching it though.

(didn't see an updated thread anywhere so I started a fresh one!)

I heard that Bale and a bunch of other actors had already signed to do 3 Terminator movies. Link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7411013.stm)

As for the movie, I thought it was great. had a few not great moments, but that happens to any movie. Though, I am a huge terminator fan so I'm probably a bit biased. at least it wasn't another terminator 3.

[az0madman]

It's a lot better than the low reviews it's getting, but that's going in with low expectations. Script was pretty horrible and the editing was all over the place... But the action was top-notch. So fun movie if you're bored and have nothing else you want to see.

I'm kind of sad I put this so high up on my summer movie wager list. :(

[darthender]

I really liked it too.



SPOILERS

The cameo was completely unexpected, and totally awesome.

I will say, you have to take a lot of faith on this that Jon Connor is some kind if mystical messiah, otherwise, the machines plan for the was a really stupid one. I mean, Connor is a very skilled and charasmatic leader, and in order to kill him off, Skynet basically creates a machine that's completely sympathetic with the rebellion that would make a 10 times more effective leader than Connor. I mean, even if Skynet's plan had worked, they would have killed off Connor but in exchange, given the resistance the most powerful weapon they would ever get against Skynet.

It was a really stupid plan.


I have this theory now where in the third Terminator Salvation movie, Skynet will run out of fossil fuel and will start running off of solar power and Connor ignite the atmosphere and the terminator movies will turn out to be in the same universe as the Matrix movies.

And Neo is like the reincarnation of Jon Connor.

[shimei]

(They could have done without the pilot chic)


You kidding me?? I thought she was really cute and was really the best part of the whole movie for me. But, I think Christian Bale has just too much testosterone. His characters are starting to piss me off. But, as long as you leave all logic at the front door, I think it was a fun movie to go see with a few friends. I wouldn't seek it out as a must see for the summer though.

Oh, and was I the only one who thought the little kid was a boy the whole time???

[darthender]

Oh, and was I the only one who thought the little kid was a boy the whole time???Probably, that kid had the "generic little black girl" haircut they always use in movies.

[diane]

I liked it, kinda. But all I kept thinking was, how the hell did Skynet know about Kyle? Sarah wouldn't have put his name on the birth certificate. And the only other people who know who daddy is would be John and his wife. Reese wouldn't have existed in any databases linking to John, so how the hell does Skynet know?

Honestly, I would like the movie more if I could just figure this out.

[cybersuchus]

I thought it was an okay film. Better than T3, but not up to par with the first two. I wish Bale didn't decide to go so gruff with his voice again. It brought back too many Batman moments. Also, Helena Bonham Carter was wasted in the film (essentially doing nothing more than dole out badly placed exposition). Meanwhile I feel Anton Yelchin is turning out to be quite the actor. From doing Chekov in Star Trek, to Reese in Terminator, the dude is showing some range. I thought he did spot on job of sounding like a young Michael Biehn.

The writing was definitely the biggest flaw in this film. I can accept some changes from the canon - dates in particular - as time travel will always be likely to F that up. The logic behind Marcus, the pilot girl (Blair), and Skynet, though, were all terribly done

Example:






<spoiler>


Why did Skynet not create a failsafe for Marcus in the event he went rogue. It's not hard to do with modern programs, you'd think a next gen A.I. could have inserted a "critical stop" somewhere in the system.

</spoiler>









The end scene also hit serious cheese territory. It felt like the movie was trying to be deeper than it really was.

That said, the action was fantastic, and gave us a better glimpse at what the war against the machines was really like. I look forward to future installments.

[stubadub]

I thought the first hour or so was fantastic. I loved Marcus, and I appreciated Mr Charlie Bartlett/Chekov as Kyle Reese, and although I felt like I could identify the inspiration of every action sequence from other movies they were still staged very well and were completely thrilling. Around the time that John Conner is in the water I felt like the movie started to take a turn for the worse.
Spoiler:

If they are in Skynet central near the assembly line of Terminators, why the hell could Skynet only spare one Terminator to try and stop John Conner and Marcus? They fight their asses off to stop that one, and then it's smooth sailing. It just seems like once Marcus went rogue they would have at the very least thought "Ok, maybe one isn't going to be enough, let's have a second one on standby."

[jabber]

I liked it, kinda. But all I kept thinking was, how the hell did Skynet know about Kyle? Sarah wouldn't have put his name on the birth certificate. And the only other people who know who daddy is would be John and his wife. Reese wouldn't have existed in any databases linking to John, so how the hell does Skynet know?

Honestly, I would like the movie more if I could just figure this out.

Diane, how about this...

When Sarah Connor was locked up in Pescadero Mental Institution, she was blabbing her story to the doctors, trying to get people to listen to and believe her. Her stories were probably converted to typed transcripts on a computer, stored to a hard-drive and then when Skynet became self-aware, it discovered his name in these transcripts during it's searches for information about it's enemies. Maybe? Just supposin'.

[darthender]

Also, the terminator in Terminator 3 is in the past at the time Skynet becomes self aware, so it's very easy to assume the T-X just gave the primitive skynet all the knowledge it had about the future.
<spoiler>


Why did Skynet not create a failsafe for Marcus in the event he went rogue. It's not hard to do with modern programs, you'd think a next gen A.I. could have inserted a "critical stop" somewhere in the system.

</spoiler>For whatever reason normal modern program solutions don't function against Skynet is probably the same reason such things don't work on Terminators in general.

If they are in Skynet central near the assembly line of Terminators, why the hell could Skynet only spare one Terminator to try and stop John Conner and Marcus? They fight their asses off to stop that one, and then it's smooth sailing. It just seems like once Marcus went rogue they would have at the very least thought "Ok, maybe one isn't going to be enough, let's have a second one on standby."It seemed pretty plain to me that the T-800 in the movie was the "first off the line".

Also, this movie seems to establish that Terminators aren't like some kind of zombie hoard. You never see more than a couple of them, even the cheap 600s in any one place at a time. Even Skynet probably has to spend a lot of time and resources to build them.

[stubadub]

It seemed pretty plain to me that the T-800 in the movie was the "first off the line".

Also, this movie seems to establish that Terminators aren't like some kind of zombie hoard. You never see more than a couple of them, even the cheap 600s in any one place at a time. Even Skynet probably has to spend a lot of time and resources to build them.

I'm assuming you mean the T-800 specifically. I guess it might have been the first one of that model off the line, but there was still several other older models that were seen at Skynet, either when they were bringing in the humans from the harvester or when Conner was trying to infiltrate the base.

[gabeja]

Bah, this god slammed on Rotten Tomatoes. I had loooowww expectations going in, but I really enjoyed this. IMO better than iron man.......

[crabcakes]

Its not going to win any awards outside of maybe special effects, but it was a great action movie. The little kid was annoying, but then again so was John Connor in Terminator 2. The action was great, as well as most of the acting, so it is definitely worth seeing if you like sci-fi or action movies.

[bcool]

this was a fun one to go see in the theater. Everything you see either explodes or is smashed, and then you get to make fun of all the stupid logical flaws afterward.

I did feel like I had missed the first 20 min of the movie though. It just kind of jumps in and I didn't care about the characters. And, it should have been R.

[darknessgp]

SPOILERS BELOW!








...

<spoiler>


Why did Skynet not create a failsafe for Marcus in the event he went rogue. It's not hard to do with modern programs, you'd think a next gen A.I. could have inserted a "critical stop" somewhere in the system.

</spoiler>...

Although I somewhat agree, I'd also argue that Skynet is very arrogant themselves. He had a chip in his head and did things subconsciously and there wasn't a problem with him until he realized that the machines were controlling him. Could be that Skynet never considered he might actually side with humans once he knew what he really was.

As for the fight towards the end... Skynet's goal was to bring Connor and Reese to Skynet central, and they did. Yea, they probably intended to kill them with Marcus helping to screw that plan up... but what if this was part of the plan as well? They killed the command sub that had all the resistance leaders on board, maybe that was the plan to begin with? Because let's face it, most of the movie Connor is not the leader of the resistance and Skynet at that point has almost no reason to send anyone back in time.

As for the question about knowing to find Reese. You can't really think of it as linear, a machine from the farther future could have traveled to 2018 and told them who Connor's father is. Could have been a machine in the past figured it out, etc, etc. Time travel is a bitch. Ever wonder if John Connor isn't really important? If he dies in the past, does that mean the resistance loses? Or maybe there never is a resistance? Or perhaps someone else takes Connor's place in the time line and then Skynet is now hunting that person down?

[stubadub]

SPOILERS BELOW!



As for the fight towards the end... Skynet's goal was to bring Connor and Reese to Skynet central, and they did. Yea, they probably intended to kill them with Marcus helping to screw that plan up... but what if this was part of the plan as well? They killed the command sub that had all the resistance leaders on board, maybe that was the plan to begin with? Because let's face it, most of the movie Connor is not the leader of the resistance and Skynet at that point has almost no reason to send anyone back in time.


I don't think that adds up. Having the knowledge about Reese implies knowledge of the mission he will undertake, which implies that they know Connor is important enough in the resistance to prevent him from being born.

[allsighs]

Just got back from it and I'm sorry...what a steaming pile of crap. Not 5 minutes could go by without another "really???" moment. And by that I mean a Star Trek "you have to drill to the center of a planet for a black hole to be effective"...moment.

/spoiler-ish

So if Kyle Reese is the #1 target for termination, and Skynet has developed a plethora of different machines whose sole purpose of existence is to terminate humans, then why is it that they do everything they can to keep him alive? They recognize him the whole way and just put him in more places to keep him safe. And before you say that it was to lure Connor in, 1) you could still kill Reese and Connor would still show up, and 2) if you kill Reese there is no Connor....

Also gotta mix in a little McG ripping off Psyclo from Battlefield: Earth as his vision of the machine base...random, unnecessary plumes of fire coming out of the ground and all...

Save this one for a rental. This is just another EXCELLENT example of a sequel that only serves to bring down the franchise another notch...

[stubadub]

/spoiler-ish

And before you say that it was to lure Connor in, 1) you could still kill Reese and Connor would still show up, and 2) if you kill Reese there is no Connor....



1) It's certain that Skynet knows Reese's importance to Connor, and it's likely that it hoped this would lure him in personally, but they don't know that he show up for the sake of the other humans. It's not perfect reasoning, but that part seems passable to me.

2) If Connor lives then he would send someone else in Reese's place, right?
Although Reese is the one that originally saved Sarah Conner, someone else could pull off the same mission.

Just thinking out loud here. Someone else feel free to chime in on how wrong I am. :)

[darknessgp]

SPOILERS!!











I don't think that adds up. Having the knowledge about Reese implies knowledge of the mission he will undertake, which implies that they know Connor is important enough in the resistance to prevent him from being born.

True, however Skynet also seems to not want to do something that might cause them not to exist, ala sending a machine back in time to build a nuke and blow up the city they know Connor is in, because it might make it so they never existed. The idea, IMO, has always been take out Connor or his mother with minimal effect on the time line. Maybe they thought/knew killing Reese in this time would cause skynet not to exist, so they used him as bait to bring Adult Connor there to try and kill him or maybe get him to the point where he does send Reese back and then kill him, cause then they would think Skynet would continue to exist.

As for Skynet, remember it's not about just killing humans. Otherwise, why would they be kidnapping them? Skynet very much plans things out and isn't just a 2D character itself.

[mharrison]

Of course, there is one big flaw in the logic of anyone who thinks sending someone back through time to change things will have any effect on the present. That is, when a change is made to the timeline, a new alternate reality is created, so from the perspective of the person who sent whoever back in time, nothing will have changed. Instead a new timeline is created and exists parallel to the original. Just like in the new Star Trek movie.

[stubadub]

Of course, there is one big flaw in the logic of anyone who thinks sending someone back through time to change things will have any effect on the present. That is, when a change is made to the timeline, a new alternate reality is created, so from the perspective of the person who sent whoever back in time, nothing will have changed. Instead a new timeline is created and exists parallel to the original. Just like in the new Star Trek movie.

Unless you are following the one timeline theory, in which case whatever you are going back in time to do has already happened, so you aren't changing anything, you are just experiencing the past and doing what you did when you were already there the first time even though you couldn't know what it was that you did/are about to do. :D

Seriously though, you've got multiple schools of thought in fiction on timeline theory. You've got the Star Trek alternate reality angle, the Timecrimes whatever happened happened angle, and then the Back to the Future one timeline that can be changed theory. It's up to each fictional work to determine what the rules are for that world. The Terminator series has kind of been a clusterfuck in that area IMO. The first film suggests that its the whatever happened happened reality, since John Conner sends his own father back in time to impregnate his mother, then the second one suggests it is alterable with the "there is no fate but the one we make" stuff which is confirmed by the third one when the date of judgement day changes.

[darthender]

Of course, there is one big flaw in the logic of anyone who thinks sending someone back through time to change things will have any effect on the present. That is, when a change is made to the timeline, a new alternate reality is created, so from the perspective of the person who sent whoever back in time, nothing will have changed. Instead a new timeline is created and exists parallel to the original. Just like in the new Star Trek movie.Of course. Everyone knows that's the completely factual way that time travel works.

[decepticon]

Saw the film last night...I had a good time, but man oh man were there plot holes! This film does a good job of ignoring the continuity set forth by the first two movies, and seems to sort of go about things as it wants, which bothered me.

I didn't think this was as bad as the third Terminator film, but it certainly doesn't hold a candle to the first two.

I'd still recommend seeing it though, and the sound and actions sequences are stellar so seeing it in the theater probably makes for a noticeably better experience.

[poltah]

Okay. I just saw this film. I think it was a very poorly written movie. I liked McGs direction, that was great. Fun action.
But in my opinion this is only 50% of a good movie.

And apperently the guys who wrote this also wrote Catwoman, so yeah. The dialogue is bad, the script is messy.

But I don't want to get into what I liked or what I don't like. For now at least. But I do have one question:

Why did the machines want to kill Kyle Reese and John Connor?

[darknessgp]

...

Why did the machines want to kill Kyle Reese and John Connor?

Have you seen the other Terminator movies? Kill Reese and John is never born. Kill "future" John and he's no longer an issue during the war.

[hank41]

terrible film. the action was ok. the acting was bad except for Sam Worthington. the movie made no sense

[poltah]

Have you seen the other Terminator movies? Kill Reese and John is never born. Kill "future" John and he's no longer an issue during the war.

How did the machines know that Kyle Reese was John Connor's father?

[stubadub]

How did the machines know that Kyle Reese was John Connor's father?

During T2 the psychiatrist assigned to Sarah Connor is heard repeating much of the events of the first Terminator film. He says that she believes her son John Connor was fathered by a man from the future sent back to protect her. Although he doesn't refer to Kyle Reese by name, it is not beyond reason that she supplied this information at some point. If it is included in her medical records it is reasonable to believe that Skynet has processed it. I have many issues with the film, but Skynet having uncovered that piece of information doesn't strike me as a big deal.

[poltah]

During T2 the psychiatrist assigned to Sarah Connor is heard repeating much of the events of the first Terminator film. He says that she believes her son John Connor was fathered by a man from the future sent back to protect her. Although he doesn't refer to Kyle Reese by name, it is not beyond reason that she supplied this information at some point. If it is included in her medical records it is reasonable to believe that Skynet has processed it. I have many issues with the film, but Skynet having uncovered that piece of information doesn't strike me as a big deal.

So Skynet checked every information out there to locate who would eventually end up becoming John Connor's father? And then they somehow found out what every still living human being was called? And then deducted that, if there's only one Kyle Reese out there, he must be John Connor's father?

I'm not saying it can't be explained. But to me, there's nothing in the movie ever talking about why the machines are hunting Kyle Reese. And everybody might be able to come up with their own theories on why the machines know, but it should be clear in the movie.

In my opinion.

[darknessgp]

So Skynet checked every information out there to locate who would eventually end up becoming John Connor's father? And then they somehow found out what every still living human being was called? And then deducted that, if there's only one Kyle Reese out there, he must be John Connor's father?

I'm not saying it can't be explained. But to me, there's nothing in the movie ever talking about why the machines are hunting Kyle Reese. And everybody might be able to come up with their own theories on why the machines know, but it should be clear in the movie.

In my opinion.

I assume you are taking into account the canon from at least the first 2 movies... if you try to take this movie by itself, you'll either be very confused or just have to accept certain things the way they are.

As for a possible answer...

Time Travel. It could be anything even simple as a future Skynet sends a machine back in time with detailed information about John (somehow was gathered in the future) so they would know that John sends Reese back in time, and then only sends robots back in time (The movies never say another human is sent back). So Skynet has 1 suspect. problem solved...

Also, Skynet is a giant sentient computer with many many non-sentient computers... Are you really questioning whether Skynet would check all that information? And who says they need to find out what every living human is called? 1) They don't need to know everyone. 2) Skynet has access to Government files, there wasn't much searching to get a bunch of information on people.

[poltah]

I still think that's justifying the movie, when it can't do it itself.

That's like saying "Well it's not a plothole that they don't kill John Connor or Kyle Reese on the many chances they get. Because maybe the humans had used a more advanced version of Connor's SONY device to hack th computers and put in a blocker, so that they could only kill them in the robot city".

[darknessgp]

I still think that's justifying the movie, when it can't do it itself.

That's like saying "Well it's not a plothole that they don't kill John Connor or Kyle Reese on the many chances they get. Because maybe the humans had used a more advanced version of Connor's SONY device to hack th computers and put in a blocker, so that they could only kill them in the robot city".

true, but all the terminator movies have plot holes, and I'm just claiming it's not any bigger than the other movies... There are so many places where things are a certain way that don't make sense, then throw in time travel and it gets even more complex.

As for your example and many many other people's issues for a plot hole. The only real response I have is, it's a movie. It wouldn't be very entertaining if the vastly superior robots steamrolled the humans, like they should if it happened in reality.

[stubadub]

I still think that's justifying the movie, when it can't do it itself.

That's like saying "Well it's not a plothole that they don't kill John Connor or Kyle Reese on the many chances they get. Because maybe the humans had used a more advanced version of Connor's SONY device to hack th computers and put in a blocker, so that they could only kill them in the robot city".

Now you are hitting on the things that are actually problems for me. Time Travel in a movie is hard enough to keep straight in one film. By the second film this series had significant problems in that department. At some point you have to decide if the rest of the movie is good enough to excuse those problems. Considering the history of the series the fact that Skynet knows to look for Reese isn't a big problem for me. A scene where Connor says "Skynet must have read my mom's files" wouldn't really add anything for me.

However, the fact that they not only don't do shit with him until the end, but then in a factory that assembles killing machines they could only muster one Arnold and one T-600 for a part of the mission that is so important seems like horrible writing IMO. That's just one of many details in the close of the film that took me right out of the film.

[poltah]

As for your example and many many other people's issues for a plot hole. The only real response I have is, it's a movie. It wouldn't be very entertaining if the vastly superior robots steamrolled the humans, like they should if it happened in reality.

But that's too easy. Think about this: The movie could've been almost exactly the same without the robots hunting Kyle Reese. It matters so little in the movei that he's on that kill list.

[stubadub]

But that's too easy. Think about this: The movie could've been almost exactly the same without the robots hunting Kyle Reese. It matters so little in the movei that he's on that kill list.

WHAT?!?!? That's the reason that he doesn't shoot Marcus by the water, and ultimately why he insists that they don't allow collateral damage from destroying Skynet central. The third act is driven by the attempt to extract Kyle Reese from Skynet.

[darknessgp]

...

However, the fact that they not only don't do shit with him until the end, but then in a factory that assembles killing machines they could only muster one Arnold and one T-600 for a part of the mission that is so important seems like horrible writing IMO. That's just one of many details in the close of the film that took me right out of the film.

I agree. that was just dumb. I mean, I can understand only one arnold, assuming it's a "he's first off the line" type of deal... but only one T-600? in a place where Skynet knew John was coming cause it was a trap? What about the giant robot thing that Marcus saw? definitely an issue, but at the same time maybe not. Maybe Skynet is doing what it needs to to insure it wins the war. Everyone told John he was going to be the leader, but who says he's good at it? I mean, no were in any of the films do we have any idea who actually wins the war. John send Reese and Arnold back during the war. Maybe Skynet wants John to be the leader and live now so they can wipe out the entire resistance later.

[poltah]

I agree. that was just dumb. I mean, I can understand only one arnold, assuming it's a "he's first off the line" type of deal... but only one T-600? in a place where Skynet knew John was coming cause it was a trap? What about the giant robot thing that Marcus saw? definitely an issue, but at the same time maybe not. Maybe Skynet is doing what it needs to to insure it wins the war. Everyone told John he was going to be the leader, but who says he's good at it? I mean, no were in any of the films do we have any idea who actually wins the war. John send Reese and Arnold back during the war. Maybe Skynet wants John to be the leader and live now so they can wipe out the entire resistance later.

And why did they have the Arnold bot in the cage? Why not a dude with a gun who would just shoot John?