Episode 114 - Umlaut - Terminator: Salvation, Punch-Out Wii, Bionic Commando, Sherlock Holmes trailer, Lost finale, Glee [Archive]

pruben

05-26-2009, 10:08 AM

Awesome Milenium Falcon set :D

I thought the trailer for Terminator Salvation was cool, but after hearing the guys' oppinions, I'm not sure if I'm going to watch it immidiatly. Maybe later this year or next year. I liked the trailer for Sherlock Holmes. It wasn't as wacky as the Tropic Thunder trailers. I hope it is going to be a great movie.

I haven't tried the original Punch-Out, but I want to try the wii version. looks like a lot of fun in multiplayer mode. Bionic Commando looked just like Spider-man in the video playing in the background. I've never liked the invisible wall. I want to explore. My favorite games got a visible wall. I say it again: Brütal Legend=Best game of the year.

I missed the first seasons of Lost, so I haven't got into the story of the show. Maybe I buy all the seasons after nr.6. It sounds like a great show, but I haven't had the oppurtunity. Those spoilers just made me want to watch Lost.
E3 is going to be great. Does anyone know when the Live show is going happen(time of day, date)?
edit: Umlau

owlboy

05-26-2009, 05:45 PM

No email this week?

xfuuey

05-26-2009, 06:51 PM

OK episode. I just watched Terminator on Sunday, and I thought it was OK. I usually agree with the guys opinions, but I liked this movie, for the most part. So I guess I more agree with Dan's view on this.

mharrison

05-26-2009, 07:18 PM

Am I the only one who likes the new intros? I like the first part before the fan submission, I mean. The part where they are discussing things, or like this week with the Lego Millenium Falcon. How about a segment in an upcoming show where Jeff puts that baby together? I was amazed at the size of the manual that was in the box.

I hated, hated, hated, the umlaut thing. Most horrible way to promote a video game, ever. Do not do it again.

I liked Terminator : Salvation. The thing is, we aren't seeing the original timeline anymore. That doesn't exist anymore. Once the terminator and Kyle Reese got sent back in T1, they altered the timeline, so everything that comes after will happen differently. So it doesn't bother me that the machines already know that they need to get rid of John Conner. The "prophecy" was really Sarah Conner in T2 saying on camera about all that was going to happen. And I loved the nice toeuches of having Linda Hamilton's voice on the tape and having what looked to be a digital Arnold for a cameo. I thought that was really well done and realistic looking.

masterevilace

05-26-2009, 07:25 PM

I love Dan's brain games t-shirt
That almost seems more geeky to me than most of the geeky stuff they talk about

What was the connection in saying umlaut? Is it anytime somebody used a word with a U in it? Confused by that.

fardawg

05-26-2009, 08:12 PM

I signed up because Jeff's point about the machines now knowing about Conner and Reese being some kind of logic hole is soooo wrong. I love you man, but think about it. The female terminator was connected to skynet in the third film. She obviously downloaded her future knowledge into the database. They all changed the original timeline. I really liked the movie but I agree there should have been a little more Conner, though I liked the new guy as a way into the world for new people. It was a good way to get out exposition without being redundant...

Conner
You remember that whole apocalipse thing
where the robots we were just fighting took over?

Reese
Yep. Remember how they sent robots to kill your mother and you?

Conner
Yep. I also remember sending someone, looked a little like you, to save her.
Say, I got this picture of her, wanna see?

PS. As soon as you guys mentioned the "Peanutbutter solution" on the show, I almost thought that it was a weird nightmare from childhood, I knew I was going to be addicted to this show. I watched all of the episodes from number one up to the one starting the new intro in less than a month.

trsjeff

05-26-2009, 08:49 PM

I signed up because Jeff's point about the machines now knowing about Conner and Reese being some kind of logic hole is soooo wrong. I love you man, but think about it. The female terminator was connected to skynet in the third film. She obviously downloaded her future knowledge into the database. They all changed the original timeline.

What?

She downloaded her future knowledge into the current skynet database? Ok, even if that made sense, there is NO WAY the machines COULD POSSIBLY know that Kyle Reese is John Conner's father. We are led to believe that from the moment Sarah Conner becomes preggers she is "off the grid". No medical records, no blood tests, nothing. No one witnessed Sarah and Kyle getting it on, and the Arnold Terminator that actually fought Kyle Reese never got to "download his future knowledge", so why exactly would the machines think that Kyle Reese is a threat?

-Jeff

jay_ray

05-26-2009, 08:54 PM

Jeff I know how daunting that Falcon looks, when I got mine in the mail and opened it I was utterly shocked at the size, it will take me a while to get it done.

I have mixed feeling on the Holmes movie, after the trailer I just don't see it being the Holmes movie I want to see. I want it to be real, gritty, dirty, and a true 1880's detective feel. Not just another summer blockbuster and will be like Transformers which, like Jeff, I did not like.

Lastly, I think the best way for the TRS guys to discuss Wii games is in a group like their Punch-Out one. Even if it's single player only I think that way would be a funner and better way to do Wii stuff unless it is a long game like Zelda or Mario.

az0madman

05-26-2009, 09:54 PM

Whoo for the love of Lost. I'm quite obsessed with the show so I'm happy to know it's not getting hate (though I agree with the ridiculous gun fighting).

I think I'd agree with Jeff the most with T4. So many plot holes and problems. But I enjoyed it more because I just looked at it as a flat out action film after all the bad reviews. It's interesting what Dan said, about John Connor's role expanding, because this could've been a much better movie if Connor wasn't in it as much. Then again, I felt that a lot of problems centered around Marcus too.

heyseuss

05-27-2009, 12:08 AM

I love Dan's brain games t-shirt

You do know where that shirt came from right ?

What was the connection in saying umlaut? Is it anytime somebody used a word with a U in it? Confused by that.

They explained it at the beginning of the episode. Made sense to me.

bman

05-27-2009, 12:17 AM

heyseuss

05-27-2009, 12:31 AM

I am only at the Movie part of the show but what I have watching has bothered me so much I had to post.

Now I follow these guys like everyone else, and are usually 100% right about there reviews about movies and other things. But this review of Terminator Salvation was so hated on, I am pissed off. TS was one of the best films I have seen in a long time, besides Star Trek, everything about it was well done. Sure the storyline based off original content was wrong, but was still awesome. I can't believe they hated it soooo much. I wish they enjoyed it as much as I did, I think the movie deserves much more then that. And Marcus Right was the best part of the film. And I can't believe they didn't comment on the Arnold terminator or the I'll Be Back parts of the film. WTF

I guess the TRS boys aren't as big fans of cheese as you are. I'd offer you some whine to go with, but you seem to have enough.

jadles

05-27-2009, 12:44 AM

I am only at the Movie part of the show but what I have watching has bothered me so much I had to post.

Now I follow these guys like everyone else, and are usually 100% right about there reviews about movies and other things. But this review of Terminator Salvation was so hated on, I am pissed off. TS was one of the best films I have seen in a long time, besides Star Trek, everything about it was well done. Sure the storyline based off original content was wrong, but was still awesome. I can't believe they hated it soooo much. I wish they enjoyed it as much as I did, I think the movie deserves much more then that. And Marcus Right was the best part of the film. And I can't believe they didn't comment on the Arnold terminator or the I'll Be Back parts of the film. WTF

The story line (or lack there of) was horrible and showed they really didn't pay a ton of attention to the previous movies. The Terminator movies are suppose to have a story line not just mindless action. And on top of the mindless action it seemed like McG had to make sure every explosion was overdone and that there was a fireball, spark, or flame in ever shot of the film. There were so many random fireballs it was ridiculous.

bman

05-27-2009, 12:47 AM

The story line (or lack there of) was horrible and showed they really didn't pay a ton of attention to the previous movies. The Terminator movies are suppose to have a story line not just mindless action. And on top of the mindless action it seemed like McG had to make sure every explosion was overdone and that there was a fireball, spark, or flame in ever shot of the film. There were so many random fireballs it was ridiculous.

Didn't really need to explain the storyline issues again, I agreed with that part. Thanks.

masherscf

05-27-2009, 01:07 AM

az0madman

05-27-2009, 01:17 AM

After watching Marcus take beatings that would kill a normal man and most of the other characters being superfluous or untouchable, the trouble I had with "Terminator: Salvation" was the lack of urgency, There's the scene with that giant robot, an obvious take on the attack of the tripods from "War of the worlds" but it lacked 100% of the intensity.

The "Terminator" franchise is a retelling of that universal nightmare about being chased while your legs don't move fast enough to escape your pursuer. However, most of the terminators encountered by the characters were either dispatched with relative ease or inexplicably disengaged the pursuit.

Agreed. One of the things I loved about the first two Terminators were the scenes when they were being chased by this unstoppable machine. Hiding out, hoping they didn't get found. A lot of tension building that made things exciting. Didn't get any of that here. It really could've used an overarching villain instead of just Skynet as a whole.

frankiethewaffle

05-27-2009, 02:47 AM

The Umlaut thing? Hilarious and annoying. Actually, annoying to the segment host, I would assume. Even worse for poor Mike to tag every time it was said. Done well.

Punch Out!, after seeing it in action, I will buy. I loved that game. In the arcade, Super as well, was great. (Bear Hugger? anyone?) I remember getting Mike Tysons' Punch Out! I was furious. I hated the idea. My Brothers wanted it as Mike Tyson was a local sports hero. Lil' did I know I would love this game more than any growing boy should. It is a puzzle game as explained. I remember my Father suggesting the left,right,left...skill to Don Flamingo. It was the trick that worked. After that I got the game, and loved the style. I will pay to relive that, as well as the humorous animation that would just top off the fun. (I still have the NES cartridge.....alright.) Never beat Tyson though. With or with out the code. 007 373 5963. Yeah, I remember it.

As far as Terminator. Any time traveling movie has holes. Wasn't Judgment Day supposed to be August 13, 1997? Something like that? The movie became SciFi centered right after that didn't happen. Also for Jeff, at the end of Terminator 3. Someone asked who was in charge in the surviving bunker. He said "John Connor." That would feed into the direct hunt for him. As well as anyone to be associated with him. But the holes in the timeline have to be ignored.

maxhdrm

05-27-2009, 04:16 AM

Ok love this episode but I have to mimic mharrison on this one. Sorry TRS guys you over analized Terminator: Salvation and forgot about temporal physics 101.

Yes in the very first timeline skynet was about to lose the war but skynet had been experimenting with time travel formulas for the last year of the war. As skynet sent SEVERAL terminator units back in time IT altered the very existence of the original timeline. With the first Terminator hit a failure skynet's resevior of historical information on John Conner had now changed to include that information.

Each time another one was sent back history changed and with it what skynet knew about john connor. This includes kyle reese because skynet would have a record of the leap through time by him and eventually the fact that he was john's father. While skynet wasn't in complete control of all the worlds machines, by the time T2/T3 arrived it was already self aware. merely plotting to take control.

Oh Boy's if you pay close attention to the 3rd installment when the TX interfaced with the very first T-100 at the military base it downloaded every historical information on skynet and skynets control protocols....DUH! The then worldwide control skynet new everything that already took place in the future and could plan ahead of time.

BTW.....if you were paying attention to the development of this movie from the beginning then you would have known the McG said that it was NOT going to be a movie about John Conner but rather focusing on this mystery individual. The Focus on John Connor comes in the following 2 sequels.

gojira

05-27-2009, 05:03 AM

Haven't seen Terminator yet, but I think I'll enjoy it. The only Terminator film I really like is T2. T1 was okay and T3 was pretty bad. I may wait until DVD, but it sounds like I'll have fun with it.

I can't wait to get my copy of Punch-Out!! Loved the NES game and can't wait to relive a lot of those characters. But what really sold me on the game is the Title Defense mode. After you beat the game you fight the characters again, but they have new moves and old strategies will no longer work. I'm disappointed there's only one brand new character.

vegan

05-27-2009, 06:12 AM

Okay...

Please don't do something like the Umlaut thing again. I'm happy that you guys have success with sponsors, but there should always be a separation between your ads and your content. It got annoying fast, like that little nephew you have to spend holidays with who keeps trying to tell the same joke over and over again.

Trying to do a podcast with divided attention makes for sub-par hosting. As an example, PC Gamer Podcast has done a couple experiments where they would do a show while playing L4D or Demigod. All the while they're trying to discuss the latest news and answer emails/voicemails. It was horrible, everyone was so distracted.

I can't wait for Brutal Legend either, but let's try to stay focused and put out a quality show first and foremost.

deweather

05-27-2009, 06:55 AM

Watching the fawning over Star Trek in that episode and then the angry diatribes displayed in this one, I'm having trouble understanding the differences in the two reactions. Both have HUGE plot holes and make little to no sense story wise. Both have pacing issues and are style over substance. Yet, T:4 gets all the hate? I just don't get it. Someone explain it. Jeff, who I usually agree with on movies, was the biggest offender this episode. I would love to hear his comparison of Star Trek with T:4. (I hated the Spock Time Travel dupe: "You will destroy the future.....Nah, I'm just messing with ya.)

Now, I don't want to sound like I have my "hater pants" on because I absolutely LOVED both T:4 and Star Trek. I thought they were tons of fun. Most of all they made me excited to see the next installment of both franchises, which is the best a Summer Blockbuster can do in my opinion. I also really like hearing what Jeff and Dan think about movies (sorry Alex, my tastes in movies just coincide more with their tastes :p ). So, I was amazed at Jeff's level of vitriol.

Like I said at the beginning, how care there be so much hate for T:S and so much love for Star Trek? The proportions between the two seems all kinds of wrong. I mean Rotten Tomatoes has Star Trek at 90% and T:S at 30%!? Please explain that. I can see Star Trek being a bit higher, but not that much. It's just plain weird.

(Note: I think the story is pretty true to the Terminator franchise. They used many tropes of the franchise, but with a spin. Something T:3 tried to do, but failed. Examples: Marcus protecting Kyle Reese and John Connor, What makes us human, killing a terminator with fire/cold, sayings, jackets, scars, John being saved by the sacrifice of a terminator, etc...)

(Note2: I can't remember her name, but Connor's wife was clearly pregnant in the movie. Is there something in the mythology I'm forgetting? I don't remember anyone in T:S mentioning her pregnancy. That confused me a bit. ;)

gyp2

05-27-2009, 08:42 AM

Agree about missing the old intros. Why cant them talking be like an in-between segment.

gm_wil

05-27-2009, 02:09 PM

(Note2: I can't remember her name, but Connor's wife was clearly pregnant in the movie. Is there something in the mythology I'm forgetting? I don't remember anyone in T:S mentioning her pregnancy. That confused me a bit. ;)

When I saw the belly I thought, "That would be an interesting twist; to find out the John Connor that leads the resistance is actually John Connor, Jr." Who knows how long the battle goes on and when they finally win . . .

-

mrpopular

05-27-2009, 02:44 PM

Maybe someone can clear this up for me. In Terminator Salvation he knows he has to send Reese back.

but does he?? i mean Reese could be his dad but now that in our timeline he has already come back. and exsisted Do you have to send him back? what happens if you don't implosion? does John Conner's arm start disappearing during while plaayin johnny b good?

bjkrautk

05-27-2009, 03:53 PM

With all the hate flying around on this show, I was surprised that no one caught on to the one thing that I didn't really like about the Lost finale:

For a show that is very much a 'watercooler show,' with so much speculation and focus on the plot, the minutae, and the mystery....I hate that they can just introduce a character we've never seen (or even heard referenced) before who solves so many of those mysteries. Because we now know that the black smoke and all its machinations have been the work of Anti-Jacob, and not something / someone that we could have predicted, it takes a bit away from the lore (to me, at least). Now my biggest fear is that, in the last 2-3 episodes of the final season, The Mighty Hank will descend from the heavens and end the "war" that is coming.
Don't get me wrong, I still love the show, and can't wait to see where it's all going, but I have a little more trepidation now than I did previously. I also can't help but wonder how they would have altered the story if Batmanuel Alpert's show on CBS hadn't been cancelled.

I passed up T4 to see A Night at the Museum 2 over the weekend; sounds like I made the right choice (although I now have an even bigger crush on Amy Adams). I didn't realize the screenplay for both movies were written by two members of The State (Thomas Lennon & Robert Ben Garant) until I saw their names in the opening credits. Nearly everyone in the cast is a well-known comedic actor (including a few people that I didn't know were going to be in the film), and it all meshes together well.

You thought Glee was worthy of discussion time....but not a revisit of Chuck? (Now that the show has been picked up for Season 3, I've got 8 months to work on you.)

Another show open, another conversation that seems like it's only happening this way because it's being recorded, and another user-submitted intro that I didn't dig.

msmags

05-27-2009, 05:02 PM

I said it before and I'll say it again - I miss the old intros! Although the guy singing this week was kinda funny. :)

I saw Terminator last week. It wasn't that good in my opinion. The action sequences were good, but I really didn't give a crap about any of the characters. I felt the movie had no heart (yah, perhaps a lot of the 'actors' were machines, but you know what I mean).

I also cannot stand Christian Bale. As Dan mentioned, he totally reprised his role as Batman in this movie. Omg so annoying. He's just way over the top and too dramatic for me (Christian Bale, not Dan). :D

Yay Lost! Was such a good season. I agree with Alex that the time travel stuff was awesome, and really kept me interested in the story. They could tone down the exessive gun play though.

Thanks for a great episode guys!

jayislost

05-27-2009, 05:15 PM

Did the guys play any more Punch-Out than what we saw in the episode? The Co-Op folks said there was a bait and switch with the gameplay and that the later fighters were tough. I don't want to think that TRS would give such a cursory review.

fardawg

05-27-2009, 08:12 PM

What?

She downloaded her future knowledge into the current skynet database? Ok, even if that made sense, there is NO WAY the machines COULD POSSIBLY know that Kyle Reese is John Conner's father. We are led to believe that from the moment Sarah Conner becomes preggers she is "off the grid". No medical records, no blood tests, nothing. No one witnessed Sarah and Kyle getting it on, and the Arnold Terminator that actually fought Kyle Reese never got to "download his future knowledge", so why exactly would the machines think that Kyle Reese is a threat?

-Jeff

How does it not make sense? It was clear in the movie that she could connect herself to any machine and take it over. I haven't seen it in awhile but I remember her starting up the current models and sending them to kill John. That connection would allow her to tell Sky Net in the present time about John and the resistance. If you were a terminator wouldn't you want to worn SkyNet in the past about the threat?
She could also sample DNA as seen in the movie. SkyNet, now knowing about John at the beginning of the war, could run his DNA, sampled by the female terminator, through any database and find out who his father was. That explains how they know about Kyle. Kyle, as far as we know, was never "off the grid". If Maury Povich can find a baby's daddy then skynet should be able to :P.

a_r_h

05-27-2009, 08:20 PM

Sorry TRS guys you over analized Terminator: Salvation and forgot about temporal physics 101.

Snap. You hear that, Jeff? Them's fightin' words.

fardawg

05-27-2009, 08:26 PM

By the way, I know it's not explained in the movie and therefore will be confusing to people but my point is that it CAN be explained using what we know from T3. Maybe all this is a big spoiler issue in the next movie. I think Conner should have asked how they knew about Kyle. Just one line would have been enough.

heyseuss

05-27-2009, 08:47 PM

Snap. You hear that, Jeff? Them's fightin' words.

I think the part about "over analized" is also failry offensive. I guess Max is saying that he doesn't think the TRS boys pulled out of their analysis soon enough.

az0madman

05-27-2009, 08:50 PM

Seems like a lot of work to explain the movie. I mean, I get that sequels sometimes require the help of the previous movie to explain stuff, but if it can't stand alone and you have to go so far to explain something that is more theory than fact, then defend all you want, but it's not good writing at all.

masherscf

05-27-2009, 09:52 PM

My wife had the best justification for why Skynet was targeting John Conner and Kyle Reese. Skynet was programed with tech from the original T-800. The T-800 had information about Sarah Conner, John Conner and even encountered Kyle Reese. Although the nature of John Conner's paternity was probably a mystery to Skynet and fragments of the original T-800 programming and memory were probably insufficient for Skynet to fill in the gaps, the original imperative to target the Conner family and Kyle Reese as a member of that unit was probably still in tact.

It still a huge grandfather paradox and it doesn't explain why Reese just wasn't killed on sight just keep him from going back in time to foil the original Terminator.

thebigl

05-27-2009, 11:26 PM

Fantastic show!

Umlaut game + heat delirium = awesome episode

diane

05-27-2009, 11:46 PM

Okay, first, I did enjoy Terminator. I love big booms. But from the moment Ivan says that number one is "some civilian called Kyle Reese" all I could think about is, how the hell do they know about Kyle?

So as for that the terminator going back in time "changed the future". That is simply not true. Skynet sends a terminator into the pass to kill Sarah to prevent John. John in turn sends Kyle to protect mom. Kyle and Sarah create John. Therefore the only way for John to be created is for the Skynet to trigger the events. The future would be changed if Skynet didn't send a Terminator back.

As for John in the timeline that he sends Kyle back had a different father is then not the John Connor that Skynet has issues with. Genes do play a role in your strengths and weaknesses. Therefore Skynet pursuing Reese is a hollow issue, something I doubt a machine would make the mistake of doing. At the point in the movie, John is really only a PR person for the resistance, not a bigger threat than the military generals. In fact, the first real thing that John Connor does that would cause any tactician in war to take notice is at the end of the movie and only that occurs because Skynet is trying to screw with time and kill John and Kyle.

Okay, and most importantly the DNA thingy. No, sorry, not going to fly. Yes, they might have John and Sarah's DNA, but when would they have gotten Kyle's. When he was jailed or applied for a Federal Job? Reese was born in 2008 supposedly. Even when altering dates to push out events to make them future instead of past (remember when Judgement Day was in 1995?) the fact is we don't have viles of blood lying around for the machines to analyze later and know the DNA of everyone in existence. The only people who would have DNA "on file" are those who willingly give it, whether for a government job, jail, donation, or scientific experiment. These are all from adults, something Kyle Reese isn't even at the time of the movie, much less before Judgement Day.

To me, this is really Skynet living through the standard paradox with prophecies throughout literature. The fact that you know the end result of future events causes you to try and change the future and inturn triggering the events that cause the end result. Whether you look at Cronus the Titan from Greek Mythology or Anakin from Star Wars, its the desire to change the future that triggers the unwanted results. If Skynet had never sent Arnold, there would have been no reason to send Kyle and then there would have been no John.

Besides, if its a different timeline, then why the hell show the origins of the scar hinted at in the first movie. Really, what are the odds if timelines changed that a person would have the exact same scar?

I just read this and realized that I really need to get out more.

sirironpants

05-28-2009, 04:49 AM

Skynet sends a terminator into the pass to kill Sarah to prevent John. John in turn sends Kyle to protect mom. Kyle and Sarah create John. Therefore the only way for John to be created is for the Skynet to trigger the events. The future would be changed if Skynet didn't send a Terminator back.

Admittedly, it's been awhile since I've seen the Terminator movies, but this has always bothered me about these films. How can John's existence be the catalyst for the Terminator being sent back in time when the act of sending the Terminator back triggers the events leading to his own pro-creation? If Sarah had gotten pregnant with John by someone else from her own time this would make sense (as much sense as a movie with time-travel in it can make at any rate). I don't know, maybe that wouldn't have made for as good a movie. Where's Doc Brown when you need him?!

Anyway, I'm very happy the guys reviewed Glee. Even though they didn't seem to enjoy it much, I'm glad it's making some press. I'm a sucker for a cappella music and Journey, so I thoroughly enjoyed it and can't wait for the fall when it officially starts.

Oh and Dan, you are not alone in your love for High School Musical (but only the first movie). Troy & Gabriella 4evr! <3 <3 <3 lol...

doom

05-28-2009, 05:21 AM

How can John's existence be the catalyst for the Terminator being sent back in time when the act of sending the Terminator back triggers the events leading to his own pro-creation?

I largely agree with pieces of the boys' opinions of this movie - it seemed like two different movies spliced together: a John movie and a Marcus movie. And I think I might've enjoyed either one but together it kind of was meh. BUT, I don't think there's any timeline problems - and as for the effect-cause problem, I don't think that's necessarily a problem - it all depends on what the nature of time travel turns out to be... which could be anything right now 'cause we don't know. Effect can precede cause theoretically in certain circumstances (eg, Black Holes) so the same could be said of a theoretical time stream. Time is way too complex and unknown to really speak with authority about. Still - not a great movie. Just... ok.

jerenisugly

05-28-2009, 06:52 AM

To say T:4 has plot holes is saying all of the Terminators have plot holes. They all get lost in time paradoxes. I feel these must either be forgiven, or stop watching Sci-Fi.

I haven't yet seen really good reasons for the machines to be aware of finding John Conner and Kyle Reese so I will pose my theories which I think are pretty solid.

John: He was running around Skynet with a reprogrammed Terminator try to stop Judgment Day ON JUDGMENT DAY. They had security cameras and terminators saw this happen, so they know a guy named John Conner is up to no good. This is the most obvious answer to me.

Kyle: When Sarah Conner explained what happened in T:1 to the mental institution she was in, she likely said, a man named Kyle Reese came back from the future to save me. And likely mentioned that it was because her son was the future leader of the resistance. They asked who the father was and she said Kyle Reese. This would be in the records, they even have it on video tape. They put her in a padded cell and now we know how the machines knew of these two men.

Can someone deny this? Cause it seems so obvious to me.

fardawg

05-28-2009, 03:42 PM

Okay, and most importantly the DNA thingy. No, sorry, not going to fly. Yes, they might have John and Sarah's DNA, but when would they have gotten Kyle's. When he was jailed or applied for a Federal Job? Reese was born in 2008 supposedly. Even when altering dates to push out events to make them future instead of past (remember when Judgement Day was in 1995?) the fact is we don't have viles of blood lying around for the machines to analyze later and know the DNA of everyone in existence. The only people who would have DNA "on file" are those who willingly give it, whether for a government job, jail, donation, or scientific experiment. These are all from adults, something Kyle Reese isn't even at the time of the movie, much less before Judgement Day.

From the New Zeland Herald

'Caution needed around DNA samples from babies
9:04AM Wednesday Nov 26, 2008

The Privacy Commissioner says two million DNA samples, taken from a heel-prick test of babies born since 1969, should be destroyed or transferred to a secure authority.
The DNA samples are taken to check and screen for childhood diseases.

About 60,000 babies are screened for 28 disorders each year, with about 45 infants affected.

They are stored indefinitely as part of the National Screening Unit's newborn metabolic screening programme.

In a submission to the Health Ministry, Privacy Commissioner Marie Shroff, said the DNA samples presented risks to the programme's participants and the programme itself, reported The Dominion Post.

Ms Shroff said the "dizzying" pace of technology meant the samples could be used in genetic screening for employment or criminal purposes.

DNA samples were a "rich store of information, not only about the subject, but also about his or her relatives".

Ms Shroff has suggested destroying the data or keeping the data in control of a separate agency, governed by strict legislation

The Health Ministry was reviewing the programme's policy options.

- NZPA'

Maybe Kyle was a New Zelander?

fardawg

05-28-2009, 03:56 PM

I also found an article from the Daily Telegraph in 2006 where a "senior police official" suggested DNA should be collected at birth and stored in a database for use in criminal investigations. It also said that they are taking DNA samples for disease testing.

The DNA "thingy" isn't so far off the mark I'd say. And don't forget that SkyNet had it's hands in genetics as seen clearly from the opening of T4. It could have started the collection itself.

a_r_h

05-28-2009, 04:43 PM

To say T:4 has plot holes is saying all of the Terminators have plot holes. They all get lost in time paradoxes. I feel these must either be forgiven, or stop watching Sci-Fi.

That is such a cop-out. If there are only 8-9 hours of actual canon in a film, the writers should strive to make sure that every nuance of the movies fit within the continuity of the primary story arc. To write off such significant issues as part and parcel to science fiction is pure lunacy and disingenuous to the genre.

dooftastic

05-28-2009, 06:40 PM

Please tell me you're going to feature more of the lego Millenium Falcon!

jerenisugly

05-28-2009, 07:22 PM

dooftastic

05-28-2009, 07:25 PM

a_r_h

Why didn't T-800 just take out one of his hydrogen fuel cells (as seen in T3) and kill Sarah Conner with ease?

Because it can't self-terminate.

lik

05-28-2009, 07:43 PM

great episode. i would disagree that PunchOut!! for Wii is a game you just sit back and play. the first two circuits weren't that hard. wait til you get to the third circuit. that circuit requires your attention and good timing to win. i wonder if the TRS guys will be able to finish it. that last boss was tough!

btw, i loved how we went from grasshoppers to a barking dog in the background. (LOST discussion). you guys can't get a break. ;)

a_r_h

05-28-2009, 08:53 PM

a_r_h

I feel people are scrutinizing this movie far too much. I feel that if this level of scrutiny were applied to the first Terminator movies they would not hold up as well. This 8-9 hours of canon you're talking about has plot problems too.

ex. Why didn't T-800 just take out one of his hydrogen fuel cells (as seen in T3) and kill Sarah Conner with ease?

And that's just one example. I think people grew up with those first movies and we didn't judge them so harshly it was so fresh at the time, and no one questioned the logic too much. Nowadays we pick them apart more.

As we should! If anything, the writers and producers should have known that the audience from the first two would have grown, both in maturity and reasoning skills, and would come to expect a great deal from the narrative they had put so much effort into. I refuse to compromise my rationality for the s's and g's of some action set pieces and expensive-looking explosions.

Look, I don't know about you, but I do not want to be pandered to. Don't bang some T-800 and John Connor action figures together on film and expect me to appreciate all the practice you put in to not smashing your thumbs in the process.

jerenisugly

05-28-2009, 10:54 PM

I'll assume you're upset that they made another Terminator movie. Because obviously they can't have a Terminator movie without time travel. If you're upset that they made another Terminator at all then that's fine. I'm done with people who wanted another Terminator, but wanted it to make perfect sense.

Also, if you forgive the time travel, what else was wrong with the story concerning plot holes?

Doof, his first priority is his mission and/or he did it in T3.

diane

05-28-2009, 11:24 PM

I don't have a problem with them making a new Terminator. I have been waiting since their were grumblings about this. My issue is that McG just approached it from the wrong perspective.

I liked the movie, its just that so much was so amazingly set-up for cliche stuff that it is kinda bad. They had great actors they wasted and the plot holes were so huge that it was bizarre. I read his interviews concerning his plot holes and his grossly misquoting Einstein's theories does rubs me the wrong way.

For me it equals this Terminator 1 is to Batman (Tim Burton) as Terminator 4 is to Batman Forever. I am not saying it is Batman and Robin bad, but it just wasted a lot of opportunities for some really good stuff.

As for the DNA, they might do that in New Zealand, but they certainly don't do it here. I work in healthcare and nope, not happening, not for kids though. And as for the police saying they should, that's great, but that is far from actually doing it.

And Sarah saying Reese's name....there are over 70 Kyle Reese's currently living in the US who have public landlines. I guess they could kill every Kyle Reese...

jobee

05-28-2009, 11:53 PM

The entire Terminator premise is off, because all going back and changing something would do is make a new timeline branch. But the old one where John Conner defeats the machines would still exist for them.

I think I learned that from Back to the Future 2.

diane

05-29-2009, 12:05 AM

I think I learned the from Back to the Future 2.

Nice!

drussell

05-29-2009, 02:24 AM

Q: When Marcus is inside Skynet and learning about how he was created, the visage of Dr. Serena Kogan mentions that he's managed to do something that none of the other Terminators have been able to. Is Skynet aware of the alternate futures and other events that have taken place? - Pierce Arner

McG: Skynet is aware of the alternate futures, and the way that we play it is in the spirit of parallel worlds, as theorized by Einstein. We try to pay attention to that approach to a fundamentally theoretical construct. So yes, they are aware of the other attempts on the life of John Connor, and they've always subscribed to a bigger-gun philosophy, from the T-800 to the T-1000 to the TX. Now they've decided to bring in a machine with enough humanity in it to properly infiltrate the Resistance and lure John Connor to their lair. That's why Serena speaks of thinking differently, thinking radically.

This found on http://www.vh1.com/movies/news/articles/1612172/20090526/story.jhtml?rsspartner=rssYahooNewscrawler

This answer makes me think that perhaps Markus was teleported to the past from the future I didn’t pay attention when he appeared in the beginning to see if there was any lightning storms to signal him teleporting in.

As for the machines targeting Kyle Reese, unless I missed something the only reason they are targeting him is because he was one of john Connors generals (seems like I remember something of that being said in t2) they targets All of the generals of the resistance but our own perspective of this story was through the eyes of the Conner’s but we find out in T3 that a lot of other generals were targeted by skynet, so I don’t think the machines new Kyle was his father but they know that he will become a general and big force in the resistance.

1st thing, there is no inconsistencies in this movie, well there isn’t to a terminator fan that has seen all the movies and even the TV Series. (by the way the TV series completely erased terminator 3 from cannon so it doesn’t officially count,( sort of like how most highlander fan’s will often say “they never made a highlander 2.) Keep in mind that ever since 1984 the terminators have been continually being sent back in time, we find out in the TV series that some of these T-1000 models were sent back to protect the development of skynet and also protect the single most important information to them and that is “John Connor and Kyle Reese are leaders of the resistance” this movie doesn’t do a good job explaining this, but it is done so in the TV series. So ever since skynet is built it will know that it must try and kill john Connor and Kyle Reese. And it wants to kill them because a terminator from the future told it to.
the Stand out of this movie was the story not the actors, It was a brilliant tale of what draws the line of being human and machine. it wasn’t as simple as “protect the (fill in blank) Conner from the robot” as far as Christian Bale Vs. Sam Worthington acting… Keep in mind this movie is More about the question of what makes a man a man and a machine a machine, this is an important 1st step in this trilogy because John Connor needs to tackle these questions and feelings before he is to battle the new terminators that will evolve in the next 2 movies. I have a feeling this new cyborg terminator is similar to what model is sent back to protect him in the TV show. and i think these events are what will inspire john Connor to start USING terminators as weapons against skynet to begin with. (as opposed to just scraping them all) but it’s with all these undertone influences and themes that makes this first movie more about Markus and how he ends up influencing John Conner, so it actually should be Sam’s move more than Christian’s and I think Christian understands this. this movie for him is a stepping stone to get to the final chapter in which John Conner is the Hero. This story He is not the Hero, Markus is. and which is why I think it was perfect for Christian bale to play this movie as he did to let Sam Shine, it was the only way to be honest to the story. (he himself in interviews has talked about the story coming first in any and all of his acting projects )
So I liked this movie Alot better than you guys did and to each his own.

masherscf

05-29-2009, 03:09 AM

I think they're all from the planet Zeist. Opps, wrong crummy sequel featuring Micheal Ironside.

darknessgp

05-29-2009, 06:04 AM

...

And Sarah saying Reese's name....there are over 70 Kyle Reese's currently living in the US who have public landlines. I guess they could kill every Kyle Reese...

In Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, Sarah makes reference to the number of "Sarah Connor"s that Skynet killed before finding her, I don't remember the exact number though...

az0madman

05-29-2009, 09:47 AM

In Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, Sarah makes reference to the number of "Sarah Connor"s that Skynet killed before finding her, I don't remember the exact number though...

And that reference was seen in the first one where Arnold went around killing people that wasn't his Sarah.

masherscf

05-29-2009, 01:33 PM

And that reference was seen in the first one where Arnold went around killing people that wasn't his Sarah.

"I'm looking for Sarah Conner"

"That's me..."

BANG!

fardawg

05-29-2009, 04:02 PM

As for the DNA, they might do that in New Zealand, but they certainly don't do it here. I work in healthcare and nope, not happening, not for kids though. And as for the police saying they should, that's great, but that is far from actually doing it.

You know this is only a movie, right? You know that the SkyNet technology shown in the third movie doesn't really exist, don't you? You also know that they can't put people in cold storage to be thawed out later with their memories intact to be turned into half human half terminators, correct? You do know time traveling robots are fantasy, ja? ;)

It doesn't matter that it isn't happening here and now. The point is that DNA collecting has a real world equivalent which means it isn't a ridiculous theory.

diane

05-30-2009, 12:47 AM

You know this is only a movie, right? You know that the SkyNet technology shown in the third movie doesn't really exist, don't you? You also know that they can't put people in cold storage to be thawed out later with their memories intact to be turned into half human half terminators, correct? You do know time traveling robots are fantasy, ja? ;)

It doesn't matter that it isn't happening here and now. The point is that DNA collecting has a real world equivalent which means it isn't a ridiculous theory.

You very statement negates your own argument. And if you bothered to actually read my posts you would realize that what I am arguing with are those who saying that "there are no plot holes" not whether the movie is realistic. I liked the movie.

I'm just saying that the science is wrong and you can't somehow say that because there is something in science today kinda like it makes up for a huge plot hole. . I liked Armageddon but the science was just as ridiculous. Are you going to argue that becuase we have drills and shuttles today that makes that more not have huge plot holes too? All I am doing is calling to task those who are trying to argue that somehow these real life science concepts make up for the mammoth plot holes. They don't. The writing was sloppy, plain and simple.

And by the way, don't be a smart ass, you can't pull it off. ;)

diane

05-30-2009, 12:51 AM

And that reference was seen in the first one where Arnold went around killing people that wasn't his Sarah.

True, but how does the computer, or John for that matter, know which one is the right Reese. Granted I guess he could send every Kyle Reese he meets back to the future to bang his mom until it takes.

Talk about a Mother's Day Present...

masherscf

05-30-2009, 01:28 AM

True, but how does the computer, or John for that matter, know which one is the right Reese. Granted I guess he could send every Kyle Reese he meets back to the future to bang his mom until it takes.

Talk about a Mother's Day Present...

It all boils down to the same thing. Bad writing. The first two movies had the same kind of problems, but we didn't care because the writing was better.

furiousemu

05-30-2009, 02:01 AM

I was really hoping someone would think to umlaut the umlauts thereby creating an endless cycle of umlauts and possibly folding space-time onto itself...oh well. It would have made for a boring show anyway.

runsoverfrogs

05-30-2009, 02:04 AM

glee club is actually good.........

quence

05-30-2009, 06:47 AM

For Wii games (and others like Guitar Hero) in the future, I'd hope that the guys play for more than just the "it's funny to watch people jump around" segment. I'd actually like to hear more in depth thoughts on them.

I loved the umlauts! Definitely made this episode stand out, and created a fun TRS inside joke.

drussell

05-30-2009, 02:40 PM

Ok guys i watch Terminator again last night, and paid specific attention to some questions raised and in teh second viewing i picked up alot of things i didnt in the first showing that explained alot to me.

1- Marcus was sent from the future, if you pay attention in the begining of the movie when marcus makes his appearance he is naked coming out of a lightning storm, fire filled crater (something all people experience with terminator style time travel) this was unclear when i first watched the movie because i originally thought marcus was one of the bodies in the terminator base that john connors men die at ,in the beginng, getting the signal out. but in fact marcus was sent by skynet to infiltrate connor and reese, and then return to skynet (notice everytime he all of a sudden wants to go to skynet he grabs the back of his head in agitation from his brain chip)

2- How skynet knows Reese is John Connors father... I missed this when i seen it the first time, but connor himself tells marcus that Reese was his father, and when marcus makes it back to the skynet station his brain chip is synced and downloaded into skynet, and skynet even plays back video of connor telling him "we have been at war since before any of us were made" therefor from this point on now all of skynet knows reese is a target, this would effect skynet into sending terminators back to add this information into skynet databanks just as we seen skynet do in terminator series.

As i mentioned before I really really liked this movie, and i liked it more the second time. the story was brilliant (it just wasnt about john connor) a great tale of what defines man and machine. something that both Kyle and Connor need to deal with in thier future battle with skynet. perhaps it was marcus giving his heart that lead to connor to think of the idea to start to reprogram terrminators to fight with the humans.

blacksymbiote

05-30-2009, 06:42 PM

Wow, reading through all of this stuff about time travel and terminator continuity has really made my head hurt. :p

I have to say, I really liked T4, but I'm not going to argue anything about it. Pretty much all the points brought up are valid in one way or another. Still didn't stop me from enjoying it though. :D

cybersuchus

05-30-2009, 11:09 PM

1- Marcus was sent from the future, if you pay attention in the begining of the movie when marcus makes his appearance he is naked coming out of a lightning storm, fire filled crater (something all people experience with terminator style time travel) this was unclear when i first watched the movie because i originally thought marcus was one of the bodies in the terminator base that john connors men die at ,in the beginng, getting the signal out. but in fact marcus was sent by skynet to infiltrate connor and reese, and then return to skynet (notice everytime he all of a sudden wants to go to skynet he grabs the back of his head in agitation from his brain chip)

Are you sure about that? I remember pretty well the scene with John's team searching the facility. They pass right by Marcus's body. Technically Skynet doesn't even build a time machine until the tail end of the war. Further, with the exception of T:SCC (which the creators have mentioned, is on a separate timeline from the main series), no Skynet time machine has ever gone into the future.

2- How skynet knows Reese is John Connors father... I missed this when i seen it the first time, but connor himself tells marcus that Reese was his father, and when marcus makes it back to the skynet station his brain chip is synced and downloaded into skynet, and skynet even plays back video of connor telling him "we have been at war since before any of us were made" therefor from this point on now all of skynet knows reese is a target, this would effect skynet into sending terminators back to add this information into skynet databanks just as we seen skynet do in terminator series.

I thought about that too. The problem is that Reese was designated target #1 on Skynet's hit list early in the movie; before Connor met Marcus. That's the part that needs to still be resolved.

In the end I still liked the movie; but god how I hate time travel.

darknessgp

05-31-2009, 06:29 AM

Are you sure about that? I remember pretty well the scene with John's team searching the facility. They pass right by Marcus's body. Technically Skynet doesn't even build a time machine until the tail end of the war. Further, with the exception of T:SCC (which the creators have mentioned, is on a separate timeline from the main series), no Skynet time machine has ever gone into the future.

He said Marcus was sent FROM the future, not TO the future. This would actually make sense, Skynet towards the end of the war is trying everything they can including sending Marcus back to infiltrate before John becomes the leader.

I thought about that too. The problem is that Reese was designated target #1 on Skynet's hit list early in the movie; before Connor met Marcus. That's the part that needs to still be resolved.

In the end I still liked the movie; but god how I hate time travel.

Again, you failed to read this. If Marcus knew and got all his info synced with Skynet, that means that Skynet in the future would know about Reese, sending terminators into the past (ala before Judgement Day) that would update Skynet's database before the war was started thereby making it so Skynet would know about Reese chronologically before Marcus actually provides the information to Skynet... it actually makes sense.

Anyways, as with most movies, there is some level of suspending belief. Some people can't see past the bad science in Armageddon to enjoy it. Some people won't see past T4's take on time travel and it's complexities (it doesn't surprise me that Cybersuchus misunderstood drussell's explanation)

lindqvist

05-31-2009, 05:07 PM

They explained it at the beginning of the episode. Made sense to me.

Sorry, but I think you may have to be American for that to make any sense :)

I think the problem is that the sound they had as the "umlaut trigger" in this game is NOT what ü sounds like in German, which is the only language I know somewhat that uses umlauts on the letter u.

(However, our beloved hosts quite effectively showed that they did not know what ü sounds like when describing their little game, so it was at least easy to understand what was going on.)

So, for me, while it made little sense, the silliness throughout the episode was pretty funny (but I would hate it if they kept it going next show).

fardawg

05-31-2009, 11:29 PM

You very statement negates your own argument. And if you bothered to actually read my posts you would realize that what I am arguing with are those who saying that "there are no plot holes" not whether the movie is realistic. I liked the movie.

I'm just saying that the science is wrong and you can't somehow say that because there is something in science today kinda like it makes up for a huge plot hole. . I liked Armageddon but the science was just as ridiculous. Are you going to argue that becuase we have drills and shuttles today that makes that more not have huge plot holes too? All I am doing is calling to task those who are trying to argue that somehow these real life science concepts make up for the mammoth plot holes. They don't. The writing was sloppy, plain and simple.

And by the way, don't be a smart ass, you can't pull it off. ;)

So to say that skynet could use DNA databases to find Kyle is as ridiculous and unscientific as Armageddon? I said before that I agree that there are plot holes, but to suggest that it is ridiculous to say skynet could have access to DNA samples, especially given the T-X's ability to identify people by tasting their blood, is itself ridiculous. Are you telling me that skynet is too dumb to think of starting a collection of DNA to use against the resistance? Your just mad because I thought of it first. And I wasn't trying to be a smart ass, I was trying to be witty! :(