View Full Version : Did Sony call an audible? (Press Conference)
thing2
06-03-2009, 12:01 AM
For those of you that watched watched both the Microsoft and Sony press conferences you may have noticed an interesting footnote in Sony's conference with the addition of the Eyetoy Wand project they showed off. Obviously this will cause much speculation over the following days as to whether or not this is true - but I'm surely not the only one that thinks the presentation was a rushed - half-assed last minute audible called by Sony Management to "compete" with the mindshare of Project Natal.
Obviously neither of these devices are even CLOSE to being ready - but I'm sure some exec saw what happened at Microsoft's conference and simply REFUSED to let them have the innovation "merit badge" from E3 this year.
I only say that because - this project has been around quite some time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpNdkm9s8AY
(That's the one I quickly found with google search but I remember some other tech demos I found pretty cool sometime last year)
So why rush it out to the media now? Also with no floor demo that I'm aware of or even behind closed doors showings that were mentioned.
Not to mention the hilarious carts they rolled out with the TV's on them!
Just seemed hastily thrown together. So what say you - Audible call ?
(Mind you - I think both technologies could create some pretty decent gaming experiences - but it's really up to the developers to capitalize on it.)
zabusan
06-03-2009, 12:11 AM
I very impressed with Sony's conference (the best of all 3 IMO)
The motion control worked surprisingly well and dropped my jaw a couple of times...
The FFXIII trailer looked sexy as hell, The last Guardian looked even better than before!!
Overall a solid conference and stole it from Microsoft and blew Nintendo out of the water (like it needed a lot of effort...)
Definately an audible, but I think its pretty clear that the tech has evolved. It's just eyetoy magic that they've taken to the next level. This kind of thing was inevitable, I think, but NATAL forced them to bring it out early.
They don't have the voice and body recognition that NATAL has, but we'll see where it all goes. My mouth was wide open during most of the presentation.
dolson
06-03-2009, 01:19 AM
So, in under 24 hours, they whipped together the demo software that they showed us?
Impressive! I'm surprised it's not coming out till 2010, considering it takes them mere hours to get this stuff working so smoothly and in presentable condition.
thing2
06-03-2009, 01:34 AM
No Dolson - if you read my post you'd see that they've been working on this for years and I know that.
But yes I do believe they whipped up the 'presentation' in 24 hours. I don't think they were ready to show this thing off - hell he even said that the wand wasn't necessarily in its final stage of design. Why show it.
And if you don't think this kind of corporate pissing contest goes on - check AMD and Intel for the past I dunno 2 decades or so.
az0madman
06-03-2009, 03:07 AM
The guy did seem a little nervous. I mean, I would be too but it was a bit "non-prep" kind of nervous. But I think the presentation worked out very nicely and it is more impressive if they did it under 24 hours. It certainly didn't backfire or hurt them in any way.
jay_ray
06-03-2009, 11:46 PM
I do not think it was last minute, rather they prepared 2 shows, one if MS did show their motion control and the second if MS did not. I think Sony would have gladly shown it next year but had no problem with having it here.
scoobydiesel
06-04-2009, 07:07 AM
I think it was a little hey you guuuys we can do this too! and hopfully better.
I have to say Sony did Impress me alot.
chrisharris
06-04-2009, 07:55 AM
It was definitely an audible. It should be very obvious as the visuals were definitely placeholders made just to demonstrate that a concept is working at the beginning of development. The lighting was horrendous, the models were ugly, and there was practically zero texture work. Coders will recognize what was shown off in this presentation as "coder graphics" (just crap thrown together by the coders to act as a proof of concept). When you want to show it off, you give it to an artistic team to polish it off first. Think back to every tech demo Sony has shown up until that point. Every one of them, even the rubber-ducks-in-a-tub liquid physics demo, was graphically polished. Also, the hardware and the demos themselves appeared to be in the "proof of concept" stage. There's no way Sony would have shown it in that state if Microsoft hadn't shown something which scared them a day earlier. I bet they were planning on waiting until TGS, at the least.
jay_ray
06-04-2009, 06:56 PM
To me I do not think Sony could just throw this in, what did they have cut out to show this? Most people knew MS was going to show some sort of motion control that dealt heavily with a camera because it leaked.
http://kotaku.com/5241168/microsofts-rumored-motion-controller-may-be-the-zcam
The only logical process of thought by Sony would be to either pass or at least match MS by showing their motion controls at their presser regardless if MS shown theirs. It would make no logical sense for Sony not to show it.
dolson
06-04-2009, 08:47 PM
To me I do not think Sony could just throw this in, what did they have cut out to show this? Most people knew MS was going to show some sort of motion control that dealt heavily with a camera because it leaked.
http://kotaku.com/5241168/microsofts-rumored-motion-controller-may-be-the-zcam
The only logical process of thought by Sony would be to either pass or at least match MS by showing their motion controls at their presser regardless if MS shown theirs. It would make no logical sense for Sony not to show it.
While I agree with you, I don't think it was a last-minute swap, the fact is they did have a lot of [EXCLUSIVE] stuff to cut:
White Knight Chronicles
Heavy Rain
Fat Princess
EyePet
Demon's Souls
Afrika
Aquanaut's Holiday
Ratchet & Clank Future: A Crack In Time
That's more than plenty that they could have demoed live or at least talked about, and that's just for PS3.
jay_ray
06-04-2009, 09:50 PM
I got my wording mixed, what I was trying to get across is that Sony has big games that they could show footage or demos of but instead put in this motion controller that is at least a year away. No they had this planned unless you believe they gave the finger at the last minute to an exclusive title. Whether it be Level 5, Quantic Dreams, or Insomniac (all second party developers who do not need to work with Sony) Sony wouldn't want to piss them off so they would not want to work with Sony again.
Or maybe they just cut out the time they would have given to Eyepet?
You can't honestly think that Sony would show all those super awesome games, and then come out with a two orbs on the end of black dildos. Like someone said before it was obviously programmer art.
The "audible" wasn't called the night before the conference obviously. It could have been made a couple of weeks ago. Call up the engineers and tell them you need a "presentable demo" in 2 weeks, and this is what you get.
And Tretton says we'll definately be seeing these on the market in Spring '10. There's a youtube demo out there with this same tech in the PS2 era. What does that tell you? They had shit stuff chilling in a vault. Once they saw MS was on the motion bandwagon, they jumped on it too.
dolson
06-05-2009, 03:25 AM
Or maybe they just cut out the time they would have given to Eyepet?
You can't honestly think that Sony would show all those super awesome games, and then come out with a two orbs on the end of black dildos. Like someone said before it was obviously programmer art.
The "audible" wasn't called the night before the conference obviously. It could have been made a couple of weeks ago. Call up the engineers and tell them you need a "presentable demo" in 2 weeks, and this is what you get.
And Tretton says we'll definately be seeing these on the market in Spring '10. There's a youtube demo out there with this same tech in the PS2 era. What does that tell you? They had shit stuff chilling in a vault. Once they saw MS was on the motion bandwagon, they jumped on it too.
What the fuck? Once they saw Microsoft was doing motion, then Sony decides to do it too? Did you forget, Sony already had the EyeToy for PS2 and the PS Eye for PS3, AND the SIXAXIS controller at launch of the PS3? You shouldn't have forgotten, you JUST said that Sony had this tech in the PS2 era, which pre-dates the 360 and Microsoft's tech. If anyone's hopping on any bandwagon, as you call it, it's Microsoft (like usual). You can re-write history in your own mind, but it doesn't actually change what really happened.
Also, link to the YouTube video, please.
What the fuck? Once they saw Microsoft was doing motion, then Sony decides to do it too? Did you forget, Sony already had the EyeToy for PS2 and the PS Eye for PS3, AND the SIXAXIS controller at launch of the PS3? You shouldn't have forgotten, you JUST said that Sony had this tech in the PS2 era, which pre-dates the 360 and Microsoft's tech. If anyone's hopping on any bandwagon, as you call it, it's Microsoft (like usual). You can re-write history in your own mind, but it doesn't actually change what really happened.
Also, link to the YouTube video, please.The tech demo from 2007, linked in the OP, was reported seen by people a year before that video even came out. He's clearly using an Eye Toy, PS2 tech.
The SIXAXIS is not anywhere near the level of motion control we saw at E3. I don't think I need to spell that out. If I do, then don't bother reading on, because this post will be beyond you.
And no, Sony is jumping on the bandwagon. Just like Microsoft. Whats different between the 2007 video and the demo at E3? The ball at the end of the wand is smaller, and the graphics are better. What do you know, better camera and better system, it's not a coincidence. It doesn't matter what came first, they had this tech and put it on ice because they didn't think anyone wanted it. It's obvious that people do now, and once they found out that Microsoft (another hardcore-gamer oriented console) was going to make the jump, they knew it was okay for them to do it too. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if this tech was still in the PS2 phase until a month ago. You don't work on something like that for 2 years (AT LEAST) and then debut it like that. You just don't. Two nervous, akward engineers who are probably the only people who know enough about the tech to actually explain it to people because the PR dept hasn't even gotten their hands on it. Get real man. Sony found out Microsoft was bringing it hard with NATAL, so they brought their own stuff out.
Here is how their E3 conference would have gone if Sony had brought out these motion Dildos a couple of years ago, or even this year if Microsoft hadn't brought out NATAL:
http://omploader.org/vMXM2bA
Here's how E3 is it went after Microsoft drops a ridiculous natural-esque AI bombshell the night before (which I will call bullshit on until I have it in front of me or a video of a non-Lionhead-employee running it though the motions):
http://omploader.org/vMXM2bQ
People who were basically saying "fuck waggle give me my goddamn controller" are now talking about how awesome their game play is going be in the coming years when they're interacting with their games (see: NeoGAF). If Sony left this is the fridge people would be saying "WTF, they pump a bagillion dollars into HOME, and then don't have any motion stuff?" And make no mistake, it was in the fridge. I know you love your PS3 (I love mine too), but don't be naive.
So what the hell were you faux ranting about, now?
dolson
06-05-2009, 06:30 AM
The tech demo from 2007, linked in the OP, was reported seen by people a year before that video even came out. He's clearly using an Eye Toy, PS2 tech.
The SIXAXIS is not anywhere near the level of motion control we saw at E3. I don't think I need to spell that out. If I do, then don't bother reading on, because this post will be beyond you.
And no, Sony is jumping on the bandwagon. Just like Microsoft. Whats different between the 2007 video and the demo at E3? The ball at the end of the wand is smaller, and the graphics are better. What do you know, better camera and better system, it's not a coincidence. It doesn't matter what came first, they had this tech and put it on ice because they didn't think anyone wanted it. It's obvious that people do now, and once they found out that Microsoft (another hardcore-gamer oriented console) was going to make the jump, they knew it was okay for them to do it too. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if this tech was still in the PS2 phase until a month ago. You don't work on something like that for 2 years (AT LEAST) and then debut it like that. You just don't. Two nervous, akward engineers who are probably the only people who know enough about the tech to actually explain it to people because the PR dept hasn't even gotten their hands on it. Get real man. Sony found out Microsoft was bringing it hard with NATAL, so they brought their own stuff out.
Here is how their E3 conference would have gone if Sony had brought out these motion Dildos a couple of years ago, or even this year if Microsoft hadn't brought out NATAL:
http://omploader.org/vMXM2bA
Here's how E3 is it went after Microsoft drops a ridiculous natural-esque AI bombshell the night before (which I will call bullshit on until I have it in front of me or a video of a non-Lionhead-employee running it though the motions):
http://omploader.org/vMXM2bQ
People who were basically saying "fuck waggle give me my goddamn controller" are now talking about how awesome their game play is going be in the coming years when they're interacting with their games (see: NeoGAF). If Sony left this is the fridge people would be saying "WTF, they pump a bagillion dollars into HOME, and then don't have any motion stuff?" And make no mistake, it was in the fridge. I know you love your PS3 (I love mine too), but don't be naive.
So what the hell were you faux ranting about, now?
If Sony had shelved the motion sensing and motion capturing techs, as you say they did, then the stuff they showed would be the same as in the 2007 video. And they wouldn't have released Eye of Judgment, and wouldn't be releasing EyePet this year, either. And they wouldn't have been demoing head-tracking tech at GDC 2008.
FFN8cW1mSVY
Watch the EyePet trailer. The people have something in their hands called a "Magic Card" which is just an object that is tracked by the PS Eye - pretty much the exact same way as the tech Sony demoed at E3, the only difference is that it isn't a "dildo" as you, maturely called it.
YZvxIjdyyII
EyePet has been in the works for some time now, and with a 2009 launch, I'd say the tech is ready. Perhaps Sony should have demoed EyePet as part of their press conference.
If Sony had shelved the motion sensing and motion capturing techs, as you say they did, then the stuff they showed would be the same as in the 2007 video. And they wouldn't have released Eye of Judgment, and wouldn't be releasing EyePet this year, either. Yes, because those are both based on in-hand motion controllers...
And they wouldn't have been demoing head-tracking tech at GDC 2008.
opencv video
That's OpenCV stuff. It's free and open source code (made by Intel, btw), that they had running in Linux. Yeah, gg Sony...
Watch the EyePet trailer. The people have something in their hands called a "Magic Card" which is just an object that is tracked by the PS Eye - pretty much the exact same way as the tech Sony demoed at E3, the only difference is that it isn't a "dildo" as you, maturely called it.
trailer
EyePet has been in the works for some time now, and with a 2009 launch, I'd say the tech is ready. Perhaps Sony should have demoed EyePet as part of their press conference.A controller is not a card.
Motion tracking itself is not what I'm talking about. It's not that hard (relatively speaking) to get a camera to recognize a simple object (i.e. a card). Hell, you can track your face in 3D space with a bunch of consumer webcams if you've got the software (lots of companies, including Microsoft, have had this stuff for a while).
We're talking about a controller. To play real games. Not a little pet you interact with on the camera, not a card the camera will scan to make monsters pop up, not a pure gimmick. I'm pretty sure Sony was probably going to do a little EyePet presentation in that press conference, because like you said, it's ready to go. They probably dropped it to bring up the dildos (Hey look, drop an in house game and no 3rd parties are mad, problem solved). I mean, they brought up Hannah Montana more times than EyePet. Makes no sense.
And I'll say it again. You don't go work on something for 3 years and come out with the exact same (impressive, but poorly implemented) tech demo you did in the last generation, at E3 of all places.
Let's say they were working on it all this time. Do you REALLY think they come to E3 with just that? No! They'd have a little Mini-game, or a trailer for potential games or something. Not two nervous engineers playing around in a sandbox with a bunch of programmer assets. They'd shove it down our throats like it was the greatest thing ever (*cough* *cough* HOME). No matter what, still gotta be an audible!
ryudo
06-06-2009, 04:11 AM
MS just bought these guys not long after CES 2008.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29VRICrvn0U
If you wanted to get more technical go back to 1990's..natal before Natal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=780bIG6TXFk
chrisharris
06-06-2009, 12:08 PM
If you wanted to get more technical go back to 1990's..natal before Natal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=780bIG6TXFk
You block an infrared beam and it does the equivalent of pressing a button on the controller. It's more like a laser tripwire than motion control. Also, you needed:
no overhead lighting
standard ceiling height
no glass/mirrored/reflective material on the ceiling
recalibration every time you turned the system on or changed cartridges
You're obviously trolling.
ryudo
06-08-2009, 12:44 AM
You block an infrared beam and it does the equivalent of pressing a button on the controller. It's more like a laser tripwire than motion control. Also, you needed:
no overhead lighting
standard ceiling height
no glass/mirrored/reflective material on the ceiling
recalibration every time you turned the system on or changed cartridges
You're obviously trolling.
You obviously lack a sense of humour and took a video way too serious where two older people look silly.
If you want trolling,peek your head around the forums more and look at Crumbles.
No I have been a active member of these forums for 3 years.
I was just showing that it's not the first time console makes tried the "You are the controller" Sega flat out failed. ..Eye toy tried it and just became niche.
MS and Sony are clearly trying to play catch up late in a console run where one of the consoles has a 50 million console base already set up and a whole company strategy involved.
These add ons late in the game fade as history keeps proving,even if MS and Sony pack these in with the consoles when they debut at earliest in mid 2010..they will remain niche and not get much attention from developers and even then take a year to get the hang of.
Unless you plan this out of the gate as i am sure the next 3 consoles most likely will,it's too late for 360,PS3 to challenge this market right now.
When the big 3 launch their next systems that is when things will get interesting as everyone has a clean slate and fair chance.
jay_ray
06-08-2009, 10:44 PM
These add ons late in the game fade as history keeps proving,even if MS and Sony pack these in with the consoles when they debut at earliest in mid 2010..they will remain niche and not get much attention from developers and even then take a year to get the hang of.
I'll argue this point, since the PS3 controller is similar to the Wii-mote you'll see a lot of ports of Wii games since it should be relatively easy and cheap to port up to the PS3. But you are right with Natal, since who knows if publishers will truly support game development on it.
ryudo
06-08-2009, 11:27 PM
I'll argue this point, since the PS3 controller is similar to the Wii-mote you'll see a lot of ports of Wii games since it should be relatively easy and cheap to port up to the PS3. But you are right with Natal, since who knows if publishers will truly support game development on it.
Yes you are right with Wii launching wii M+ with the same 1:1 accuracy ports can become much easier but they still can't top Wii in that market any more than Wii can win the hardcore crowd despite having many 3rd party hardcore games.
At this stage in the console wars people have made up their minds.
I do hope however Sony releases this fairly soon(within a year) I would like more love of titles spread between the two systems.
zabusan
06-09-2009, 03:21 AM
I honestly walked away from the Sony conference as it (motion-control) being more "believable..."
For one, ANYTHING Molyneux says is instantly laughable to me and non-believable...If it truly can deliver on it's promise(s) then awesome, but I just don't think, technologically, we are ANYWHERE near that point...At least it working as well as they say...
I look at it this way...Sony is doing what Motion + should be doing and Microsoft is running WAY ahead with the technological torch...I just hope they don't get burned along the way...