Episode 1 - 240Hz HDTVs: Better Picture or Marketing BS? Our Fave Blu-ray Picks, Welcome to HD Nation! [Discussion] [Archive]

webpoet73

07-14-2009, 07:32 PM

I'm so happy to see Patrick & Robert back together!
we have needed a HD tech show for ages on the net and Rev3
has done it! thanks Patrick, Robert & Jim Louderback.
listening to this week in tech was killing me Patrick was the only
person on the show who can see the dramatic improvement blu-ray offers!
it was a room full of blind people they should have handed out white canes
shame on you roger chang :-( dvd hurts my eyes and ears
downloads are a joke and a bad one. Long live HD Nation!!

I am glad I am not the only one who thought that was painful to listen to. Downloadable might be the future, but Blu-ray is the here and now. Resolution is just half of the "specs" of HD (just look at the bandwidth used by Blu-ray vs downloadable content. Not even close). Blu-ray is amazing and I am looking forward to going home and downloading and watching this show on my HDTV... I don't think this is a show to watch on the iPod... :)

mrpopular

07-14-2009, 07:45 PM

Congrats on the new show. Loved it, can't wait to see it down the road.

On A Side Note: Matrix Trilogy FTW

nextgenxbox

07-14-2009, 07:45 PM

SYSTM died, but at least we get HD Nation. So I'm not so bummed anymore.

evogage

07-14-2009, 07:47 PM

Just watched it, brilliant show! Its definatly up my street.

argopo

07-14-2009, 07:51 PM

Will be subscribing and downloading later tonight.

Best of luck to PN and RH on this new show.

chameleon131

07-14-2009, 07:58 PM

This is a great weekly show to add to Rev3's lineup. Well done guys! Love that you're covering titles and how they've transferred re:Hi-Def.

suurge

07-14-2009, 07:59 PM

Fucking great first episode! I agree, Goodfellas on Blu-ray=Win, I've actually got the hd dvd version. Casino and Raging Bull, also beautiful on Blu-ray. As you can tell, I'm a big Scorsese fan.

rharvier

07-14-2009, 08:01 PM

xfuuey

07-14-2009, 08:06 PM

...I think the two of them have a good chemistry

Yup. I agree 100%. It makes it much more enjoyable to watch.

argopo

07-14-2009, 08:09 PM

As for the price of Blu-Ray, I'll spend $25 and buy it. It costs just as much or more to see the movie at the theater. Plus, I don't think I need to compare the comfort levels in your own home compared to a packed theater.

I gotta say that I'll tolerate a packed theater only for iMax. There is nothing in home theater available for the consumer that matches the full 70mm scenes in the Dark Knight or Transformers 2.

Any other type of movie, I'd just buy the blu-ray.

veronicazilla

07-14-2009, 08:09 PM

Juyst finished watching the premier episode. I liked it a lot. With all the tec/pop shows on Rev3, I was glad to see somethign that focused on home theatre/ HD content. Patrick and Robert are great and seem to the be the perfect team for this show.

Patrick, I have to admit I was appalled at the lack of enthusiasm for Blu-Ray on TWIT. I have to just assume the others don't care what a 1080p picture with no artifacts looks like. Some might be satisfied with streaming content, even the "HD" quality, but the artifacting and lack of HD sound just kills it for me.

As for the price of Blu-Ray, I'll spend $25 and buy it. It costs just as much or more to see the movie at the theater. Plus, I don't think I need to compare the comfort levels in your own home compared to a packed theater.

Patrick, Robert... Keep up the good work! I look forward to years of HD Nation.

Trust me, I enjoy a good Blu-ray as much as the next nerd, but unless it's a film that I'm watching mainly for the fx, I prefer the convenience of a download.

I watched Caprica on my AppleTV this weekend, and it looked and sounded amazing. I downloaded it from iTunes, obviously, and while it wasn't Blu-ray level awesome, it didn't detract from my viewing experience.

Downloads will get there sooner than later, and hard media is on it's way out. I stand by that!

webpoet73

07-14-2009, 08:17 PM

Trust me, I enjoy a good Blu-ray as much as the next nerd, but unless it's a film that I'm watching mainly for the fx, I prefer the convenience of a download.

I watched Caprica on my AppleTV this weekend, and it looked and sounded amazing. I downloaded it from iTunes, obviously, and while it wasn't Blu-ray level awesome, it didn't detract from my viewing experience.

Downloads will get there sooner than later, and hard media is on it's way out. I stand by that!

I have downloaded and watched "HD" from both iTunes and XBL and all of the movies had scenes that looked like overly compressed jpegs... I am thinking specifically of Superman Returns (XBL) and Fantastic 4: Silver Surfer (iTunes). That definitely detracted from my viewing experience... sure downloads may make it there... but it would take less time for me to drive to Best Buy and get the Blu-ray than it would to download a file with the same picture/sound quality.

Plus, there are no extras with the downloads. Movie and that's it. I enjoy alot of the extras (gag reels, alternative endings, deleted/extended scenes), etc that not available with downloads...

Right now, physical media is where it's at.

beechbone

07-14-2009, 08:17 PM

I've been eagerly anticipating the release of this show since I first heard about it a few days ago. I really like the short but somehow info-packed format. HDTVs and home cinema is one of the few areas of tech I feel I know too little about, and this show is going to change that. Now I can finally answer questions my friends ask me.

Unfortunately my current setup is a 32" CRT TV with (pretty good) stereo sound, which I aquired for free. I can't afford to upgrade, as a student. When I get my degree and a job, the first thing I'm buying is a 65"+ LCD panel :)

edit: Regarding downloadable content, x264 is definitely comparable to blu-ray if encoded well and with good bitrate. When the UK gets the big internet infrastructure upgrades that are currently in progress, I can see good quality 1080p streaming video following soon after.

mixedspleens

07-14-2009, 09:00 PM

Really well done guys, I liked that you kept the pacing fast and kept it tight. hoping you can keep it up.

vance

07-14-2009, 09:04 PM

Trust me, I enjoy a good Blu-ray as much as the next nerd, but unless it's a film that I'm watching mainly for the fx, I prefer the convenience of a download.

I watched Caprica on my AppleTV this weekend, and it looked and sounded amazing. I downloaded it from iTunes, obviously, and while it wasn't Blu-ray level awesome, it didn't detract from my viewing experience.

Downloads will get there sooner than later, and hard media is on it's way out. I stand by that!

You know, V, I used to feel exactly as you did, but I seem to have become addicted to quality level and now when it is anything less, that is all I can think about. And I don't even have a huge TV or surround sound or my level of "spoilage" could be even worse.

For example, I have held off on watching the last episodes of BSG simply because I want to see them in all their Bluray glory. I don't have Sci-Fi, so I watched the earlier episodes on Hulu. But once I bought a Bluray player and got used to that level of detail, I decided to hold off and experience those last couple of episodes in the best possible format.

BTW, as I long-time BOL listener who remembers you speaking up for the first time, as well as an equally long-time Ryan Block fan (from our Rio Karma days), I am so excited to see how you guys have succeeded in your chosen fields. Good job!

maubrowncow

07-14-2009, 09:26 PM

The concept of this show couldn't have come at a better time. I made a vow of quality this year. Quality production and consumption. Technology had pushed distribution of music and video higher and higher until we hit mp3 and video streaming technologies that didn't jive with out bandwidth capabilities and "I want it now" culture. So we dialed back quality to make room for quantity. I'm tired of pretending streaming compression is ok. I'm not about to get rid of my Roku box (I love you, you little box of awesomeness), but I miss quality. We're getting close, but we're not there yet.

If you need me I'll be in my hole feeling delusionally greater than thou with my vinyl LPs and Blu-ray disks.

boldfire

07-14-2009, 09:28 PM

The show was as awesome as I expected it to be. I don't think this has been commented on yet, but the graphics on this show put all other Revision3 shows to shame.. it really feels like they designed them for the show where as other shows, like Tekzilla seem to have tweaked them over time to suit the shows changing format and ultimately ended up seeming a little tacky (see: "Websites we just can't get enough of" cheesy intro).

An idea if anyone at Revision3 gets the time, to make a HD Nation calibration disk, freely downloadable and re-distributable. It would probably be really popular amongst viewers and on other websites and could act as an advert for the show... just an idea.

Loving the show and will tune in next week :D

baddox

07-14-2009, 09:41 PM

I couldn't be more pleased. An HD show with Heron has been on my want list for years.

skiplives

07-14-2009, 09:47 PM

Great first show! Congratulations on putting it together so well. Here's hoping the pace and production values hold up.

My only gripe with Blue Ray is that they charge too much for the media. Blue Ray disks need to cost what DVDs cost to replace them. Overpriced movies are what is keeping BR from really taking off IMHO.

I'm sorry, but for $30 I'll pass and watch it on HBO HD, and I can hear and see the differences. The average person is never going to adopt BR until it makes DVDs obsolete.

vance

07-14-2009, 09:48 PM

I'm not about to get rid of my Roku box (I love you, you little box of awesomeness), but I miss quality.

I had been eyeing a Roku box for my Netflix account, but waited just long enough for the LG BD390 to come around! Now I have Netflix streaming (as well as access to my own media files) right from my bluray player. Now I just wish the "Watch Instantly" choices in HD was greater.

vegan

07-14-2009, 10:49 PM

Nice, I'm looking forward to being more informed about this kind of stuff.

rockyrobins

07-14-2009, 10:56 PM

Can't wait for more! Now I gotta go find my credit card for BSG.

vree

07-14-2009, 11:04 PM

Wonderful show! It is going to be great seeing a deep focus on home theater options. I am excited to see future episodes.

eminemdrdre00

07-14-2009, 11:13 PM

Just finished. Its cool, but its Tekzilla for home theater. Does this mean Tekzilla wont be covering these aspects of tech anymore?

biseltech

07-14-2009, 11:17 PM

First, great first show, I will definitely be coming back for future shows. On your first episode of HDNation about the 12:20 mark you guys mention smoothing or blending modes where it looks like movies were shot with a camcorder on 120hz HDTVs and this is the first time I have had someone admit that this was a problem, it looks completely fake to me. Could you guys help me understand these smoothing or blending modes and how to avoid them when I buy a new HDTV?

Thanks,
Bryan

harryaka

07-14-2009, 11:18 PM

really good stuff. Robert Heron akways does a great job, nice to see him and Patrick back together again. I'm glad they are incorporating HD movie suggestions, because just TV and sound system reviews could get redundant.

wcg66

07-14-2009, 11:21 PM

Congrats to Robert and Patrick. Show looks good and I will be watching.

Some suggestions from my point of view:
- be sure to branch out into HD-related stuff such as media players, video formats, etc, etc
- would be good to have an on going buyer's guide
- what about cheapy pick of the week? Let's face it, most of us are looking for deals
- setup scenarios, perhaps a lot of people don't know how to connect these things up (my father in law had his digital cable box connected via coax antenna!)

Keep up the good work guys.

vree

07-14-2009, 11:23 PM

Patrick, I have to admit I was appalled at the lack of enthusiasm for Blu-Ray on TWIT. I have to just assume the others don't care what a 1080p picture with no artifacts looks like. Some might be satisfied with streaming content, even the "HD" quality, but the artifacting and lack of HD sound just kills it for me.

You nailed it rharvier. I am surprised that more people are not talking about the huge upgrade in sound quality on a Blu Ray. The movies and shows that come with Dolby TrueHD, or DTS-HD Master Audio sound SOOO much better than the equlivalent compressed 5.1 encoding that comes with DVD's. Even worse, anything you download right now is typically in stereo sound. Talk about going backwards.

If you have a sound system that receives a direct uncompressed stream and a PS3 (will decode the lossless formats and stream it), then you get to listen to the sound track as it was intended to be heard, and it sounds amazing.

Sound difference is night and day for me as you can often switch back to a lesser format to compare back to back you can easily do a test. I tell all my friends that a better reason to go to BR right now is for the sound. Sure 1080p looks great too, but come on. Who would honestly prefer stereo audio on a download over lossless 5.1.

juicymoose

07-14-2009, 11:25 PM

An excellent addition to Rev3. The show was informative and I know that I will be back to answer some of questions that I may have. I will be getting a new Home Theater system as soon as my basement is complete so I will be checking with you guys for tips!

az0madman

07-15-2009, 12:29 AM

Whoo! Love me some HD talk. Great show! Been looking at 120Hz HDTVs recently (mostly for playing PC games in 3D), and this is the first I heard of 240Hz. Good news for me because that means 120Hz prices will be dropping so my wallet is thankful.

pmw-spender

07-15-2009, 12:52 AM

Good show, looking forward to future episodes.

anthrax420

07-15-2009, 01:18 AM

awesome show guys :)

ph03n1x

07-15-2009, 01:23 AM

So far so good. I think it was time for a change for Robert. I tried watching the DL.TV bytes and it just feels like the fun isn't there for them anymore. Complete opposite here, you can tell that this is his most favorite tech topic.

A few issues though. 20 minutes? A bit short guys, can we shoot for a minimum of 30? Or maybe have a once or twice weekly 2 minute show to supplement?

Also, Robert.. Robert.. LotR hate? That's brave to admit on camera, I'm sure there will be nerd rage (feeling a little myself).

montezuma

07-15-2009, 01:39 AM

you did not mention the SpyderTVx calibration systems.... how effective are they?

now let's get into the meat of ripping BD's for the HTPC.... ;)

poindexterc

07-15-2009, 01:53 AM

Its a good show, I just wished they explained things more. Im not a cineophile (sp?) and quite frankly I didnt understand alot of what was being said

julian_photo

07-15-2009, 01:56 AM

great show i can't wait for the next one already. It would be cool to talk about the video formats a bit more, like vc-1 vs mpeg4 and so on. Clearly we don't get a choice once its out on disk but it would be interesting all the same i think.

vegan

07-15-2009, 02:10 AM

A few issues though. 20 minutes? A bit short guys, can we shoot for a minimum of 30? Or maybe have a once or twice weekly 2 minute show to supplement?

Give it time, it's the first episode. Then again, Systm episodes were super-short by the end, too. My main concern is the ratio of show-to-ads. Those Systm episodes got so short, it was like reading a women's magazine where you don't even get to the table of contents until page 50.

Also, Robert.. Robert.. LotR hate? That's brave to admit on camera, I'm sure there will be nerd rage (feeling a little myself).

I have three Tolkien tattoos and I"m not keen on the movies. So there.

jdryyz

07-15-2009, 02:32 AM

Veronica,

What size display were watching this on? If you are using something larger than 40", it may not look so great. I believe the best quality you can get out of iTunes is 720p, but I do not know if that applies to everything, premier content, or just what you can get through the AppleTV itself. A good 720p encode will look much better than DVD but the smaller bitrates used for downloads can have a noticeable impact on quality. The average Blu-Ray gives you 1080p at a very high (20-40Mbps) bitrate and will look steller on most of the displays available today.

I agree that downloads will get here, but we're all going to need FAT data pipes before the quality of Blu-Ray can be matched.

Trust me, I enjoy a good Blu-ray as much as the next nerd, but unless it's a film that I'm watching mainly for the fx, I prefer the convenience of a download.

I watched Caprica on my AppleTV this weekend, and it looked and sounded amazing. I downloaded it from iTunes, obviously, and while it wasn't Blu-ray level awesome, it didn't detract from my viewing experience.

Downloads will get there sooner than later, and hard media is on it's way out. I stand by that!

cyborger

07-15-2009, 03:14 AM

Finally a tech show that doesn't bore me to tears (no offense to the other tech shows on revision3). I have been obsessing over HD for months now, thanks for creating this show.

A few issues though. 20 minutes? A bit short guys, can we shoot for a minimum of 30? Or maybe have a once or twice weekly 2 minute show to supplement?

I was hoping for at least 30 minutes as well but I think they got to fit enough info in the 20 minutes we got.

Also, Robert.. Robert.. LotR hate? That's brave to admit on camera, I'm sure there will be nerd rage (feeling a little myself).

I'm quietly raging at my desk. :D

daehawktitan

07-15-2009, 03:46 AM

Ive taken my meds so im calm :)

Liked the first ep. im not big into HD tv...got a 56" DLP HD from JVC but Im not worried about anything as long as it looks good to me.. Love Robert and Patrick is my all time favorite tv host....sorry Leo :)

BTW wheres your set? No chairs? That looked awkward having to just stand there in the open.

I will give the next one a go too. I live over at Techzilla though :)

GL guys.

krishnancc

07-15-2009, 04:18 AM

great show, patrick and robert are a great pair ... again :)

mondorus

07-15-2009, 04:22 AM

HD Nation is something I will be looking forward to each week! Wow you did a great job on this one.

must_comment

07-15-2009, 05:17 AM

Just wanted to say wanted to say great show, and I hope you'll dedicate time to choosing sound systems and getting great audio quality. (Judging by your background it looks like you will) It's really frustrating when I don't know enough about it, yet I know more than the guy trying to sell it to me.

vegan

07-15-2009, 05:21 AM

im not big into HD tv...got a 56" DLP HD from JVC but Im not worried about anything as long as it looks good to me.

lol

You're "not big into HDTV" yet you have one soooo much better than mine. 32" Magnavox with no HDMI that maxes out at 720p. I promised myself I wouldn't get an Xbox or PS3 until I upgraded the TV... it would be a waste.

must_comment

07-15-2009, 05:34 AM

I was hoping for at least 30 minutes as well but I think they got to fit enough info in the 20 minutes we got.

A 20m and change show is a typical length episode for a half-hour of broadcast time. They may be trying to go to the networks with this. It could probably work since there's a lot of customer education needed in this area. I think the confusion customers have in upgrading is a big reason people have been slow to do so.

cybersuchus

07-15-2009, 05:44 AM

Love the show (esp at the 30fps mp4 quality). I've often wondered about what causes that strange unreal look that digital camcorders have. I'd likened it to CG movies that lack motion blur. It makes everything look fake. This is the first time I've heard of exactly what was causing this in digital camcorders. It's good to know. The next most obvious question would be: is there a way to turn that off?

davmoo

07-15-2009, 06:24 AM

YES YES YES YES YES!!!!!!! Fantastic show!! More!!! :D

[However I will now fight down the temptation to fly to SF and beat some sense in to Robert with a wet HDTV for daring to disparage the most wonderfully awesome better-than-sex-and-beer trilogy ever made.]

...but unless it's a film that I'm watching mainly for the fx, I prefer the convenience of a download.

I'm sort of the same, but with a slight difference :)

For most movies, I'm perfectly happy with upconverted SD DVDs. The only place I really want to see The Best Quality Possible right now is for something like Planet Earth, where I want it to be so real looking that I think I can reach out and pet the zebras and the monkeys and count the hairs on a gorilla. At present I don't even own a Blu-Ray player, but I'm leaning toward acquiring one just for Planet Earth and shows like that.

BUT...

I will also concede that mu current TV is only a 32" LCD. I am also looking at buying myself a shiny new 50" or larger TV for my birthday in October, and I can see how on something like that upconverted SD DVD may blow chunks.

slugger59874

07-15-2009, 06:36 AM

Great show Patrick and Robert. The HD video for the show was very good for a download.

2 suggestions

1) Make the show longer. I was thinking somewhere around 30 minutes, not 20.

2) Keep focusing on the Blu ray releases. This is a great portion of the show

chinese_aries

07-15-2009, 07:25 AM

dude this show is awesome, not just cause its fun to watch, not just cause it looks good but also cause its useful almost all the things they talked about here ive spent time researching... good job guys... and keep looking for things i should know but i dont.

maxsunset

07-15-2009, 07:54 AM

Great show guys! I am now subscribed!

Regarding the 1st episode, I have a few more blu-ray reference discs to recommend, and a question regarding calibration discs.

Are SD calibration discs equal to HD versions? Meaning, are you going to get results that will be as good with Digital Video Essentials as you would DVE: HD Basics? I know the HD color space is slightly different than NTSC...

The blu-rays that blow me away the most have been films sourced from super high-resolution 70mm film. The IMAX scenes in The Dark Knight are extremely impressive, but Baraka is INCREDIBLE!!! Also, 2001: A Space Odyssey looks amazing, and How the West Was Won, which isn't 70mm, but carries the resolution of three 35mm film strips from the Cinerama! I love watching that in the "Smilebox" mode! BLU-RAY FTW!!

therage800

07-15-2009, 08:38 AM

This show is right up my alley. Loved the first epp. Keep it up! HD Nation FTW!

zipflint

07-15-2009, 09:12 AM

I have to second the recommendation for Baraka. If you enjoyed Planet Earth and are wanting to experience something along those same lines, this will not disappoint. The soundtrack is also incredible.

evlnte

07-15-2009, 01:50 PM

Love the new show. This is one of the topics that interests me the most. I definitely want more information about product reviews, shopping for deals, speaker placement, installation advice, upcoming tech, viewer q&a, and so much more.

Here's my review of the first show. You answered questions that were already on my mind. That is what I like. The show's pace felt too fast and hectic. The words were just coming at me too quickly. I don't mind a 45 minute show as long as I enjoy the content. Thanks again for launching this wonderful show.

kzap

07-15-2009, 03:44 PM

Great show and amazing first episode BUT I think the concept is a little light, I don't see how just talking about HD TVs and HD content will very long, I think they should expand it a little more to all of home cinema other wise I think they could run out of stuff to talk about and just become a 'HD TV buyers guide' to watch when you are thinking of buying a HD TV.
Still love the show and looking forward to see what the other episodes bring, I just hope they can expand the concept a little more to stay alive longer.

Also I like the set how it is, it's plain and simple I hope they don't over do it.

y3n0

07-15-2009, 03:52 PM

Good first episode, though!

asalva

07-15-2009, 04:12 PM

WOW! Long time coming. Glad you two are back together.

madcow

07-15-2009, 04:22 PM

Grate job guys.
Love to see you guys back together.
Keep it up :D

cyborger

07-15-2009, 05:53 PM

serafina

07-15-2009, 06:38 PM

I'm new here so I don't know if the people in charge actually read these comments but it's clear that just about everyone enjoys the duo of Robert Heron and Patrick Norton so please keep them together for as long as possible.

We do indeed!! Thanks to everyone for the support! :) Keep the comments and suggestions coming. And tell your friends!

delumen

07-15-2009, 08:39 PM

I think this is a very informative show and a great way to keep up with the new HD technology and content.

First episode was really helpful, I myself am a penny pincher with buying Blu-Ray discs and knowing the best discs to buy is definitely helpful and all the ones you recommended just happened to be my favourite movies. Especially, The Matrix Trilogy (totally with you Robert), absolutely love Fifth Element, and a classic HD show is Planet Earth.

Keep up the great stuff guys! 11 out of 10 =)

mic

07-16-2009, 12:44 AM

Downloads will get there sooner than later, and hard media is on it's way out. I stand by that!
I was promised flying cars by now, where's my flying car?

The fact remains, no matter how much one believes the days of paperless, cough, medialess viewing are soon approching, in reality it might happen by the time a child looks up at you and asks, "Great-Grandma, what's a disc". :)

trinniboy68

07-16-2009, 04:07 AM

glad to see you guys back together again.missed ya

razorhead

07-16-2009, 07:29 AM

Great show! This is one of those "useful" tech shows I enjoy, with old familiar friends to boot. I hope you keep the Blu-Ray picks as a permanent segment.

ludothegreat

07-16-2009, 08:16 AM

Amazing show! So glad you two are back at it. This is exactly the HD show that I have always been looking for. Nothing else on the net like it. Keep it up! Looking for ward to more episodes.

diablo_1105

07-16-2009, 12:17 PM

In regards to movies to test out your home theater you can't go past the opening scene in Swordfish. Over my Z5500D's turned up the picture came off the wall!! That plus on a 42"+ 1080p WS TV = PURE BLISS!!!

callen

07-16-2009, 02:38 PM

I was so happy to finally see a show dedicated to all things HD and bringing Robert and Patrick together for this is simply awesome. Keep up the great work guys and I'm sure we (your audience) will be able to keep you occupied with plenty of questions and ideas for subject matter to cover on the show.

hectos

07-16-2009, 05:27 PM

you guys are great! Love the show...

ghelyar

07-16-2009, 05:47 PM

I can't stand features like the director's commentary. Unless you are a film student, I don't know why anyone would bother watching them at all but I have seen people watch a DVD then get to the end and immediately watch it again with the director's commentary. These are probably the same mental people who can listen to the same song 10 times in a row and not want to smash their speakers up with a club hammer.

Sound difference is night and day for me as you can often switch back to a lesser format to compare back to back you can easily do a test. I tell all my friends that a better reason to go to BR right now is for the sound. Sure 1080p looks great too, but come on. Who would honestly prefer stereo audio on a download over lossless 5.1.

I always prefer 1080p with stereo to 480/576 with 5.1. I can see the difference in picture quality far more than I can hear the difference in audio quality.

It would be cool to talk about the video formats a bit more, like vc-1 vs mpeg4 and so on.

I believe that VC-1 is an implementation of MPEG4 based on wmv but I could be wrong. H.264 certainly is. Note that MPEG4 isn't the same thing as the container format ".mp4".

The short answer is ... *drumroll* ... H.264 is better. You can get this answer from any community that specialises in encoding, such as doom9, but you will probably get an abusive reply if you ask, even in the "newbie" type forums, because that is how people like to get to 5000+ on their post counts.

However, as with any lossy compression, it is always possible to get the full quality (at the same size as the uncompressed version). When you perform the DCT used in most current lossy compression from JPEG to H.264 (because wavelets look like chocolate covered crud at the moment), it just converts it to the frequency domain. At this point, you could convert it back and you would get the exact original data back. Quantise it in the frequency domain to get rid of the least significant parts (often almost the entire thing is in a very small frequency range) and then convert it back again. This is where the loss comes in and the percent that you remove from the frequency domain is how far you compress it. Most JPEGs only keep something like 25% of the frequency domain so they end up 1/4 of the uncompressed size but if you keep 100% of it, the quality is exactly the same.

This means that quality is only an issue if you compare signal to noise on files of exactly the same size (because the same quality is *always* achievable, even though to get the same quality one might be significantly larger than the other).

Because Blu-ray disks are never anywhere near full with the main video stream (typically about 15 to 25gb on a disk that supports much more), size doesn't matter that much so the quality should be about the same.

potentpotables

07-16-2009, 10:03 PM

Great show. Nice concept! Going to talk about Blu-Ray players at all? Zotac/Nvidia Ion with a BR player makes for a wickedly quiet HTPC!

How about a little bit about color balancing monitors for camera as opposed to balancing for the eye? Why does it look better on tape when I drop the K's on my monitor but it looks like butt to my eye.

Eagerly awaiting the next episode.

zecane

07-16-2009, 11:43 PM

Great first show. Glad to see Patrick, Robert and Roger doing a show together again. I hope this one will last for a long time :)

headshot1485

07-17-2009, 12:57 AM

This may be my new favorite show on rev3. Some excellent info. After watching the epsisode, I went to amazon and bought Spears & Munsil High-Definition Benchmark.

ryudo

07-17-2009, 06:41 AM

This is the show Robert has needed since his Tech TV days as one of the Lab Rats.

He never fit at DL.tv to me because while it was a general tech show all he ever talked about was HD TV's it drove me nuts.

Finally he can be on a show fit just for his love and knowledge of all things HDTV related.

Great first ep,and it already feels like a proven show IMO but having vets/old colleagues host, it's as if they picked right up where they left off.:cool:

webpoet73

07-17-2009, 04:26 PM

We do indeed!! Thanks to everyone for the support! :) Keep the comments and suggestions coming. And tell your friends!

I tried to embed the first episode on a MySpace comment and on my blog and got the player but no video. Is there any issue with the embed code?

fendee1

07-18-2009, 02:37 AM

Quite simply the best show HDTV show around much success....

ituner99

07-18-2009, 03:12 PM

Caught the HD Nation show on Vuze and now I'm going to become a regular viewer on Revision3. Although, I've enjoyed my Panasonic plasma up until now the hints and suggestions you've provided will make my experience even better. Cheers, and really miss the TechTV gang!!! But finding all of you all over the "net" is cool.

bigron18

07-18-2009, 08:43 PM

I enjoyed the first episode of HD Nation. From way back in the "Screen Saver" days, I've long been a fan of Patrick and have always respected Robert's opinions. (I'm sure it's been said many times, but I always think of Drew Carey every time I see Robert.)

I really appreciate the fact that Revision3 has started a new video format as well.. the 30fps MP4 is the best looking format I've seen on my PS3. I currently use Miro (http://www.getmiro.com/index2.php) to subscribe to shows and Mediatomb (http://mediatomb.cc/) to stream to my PS3 on a Linux-based computer... not pretty but works. My PS3 is connected to my "old" (2005) JVC 52" HDILA 720p television. Large filesize is of no concern to me, with my synchronous 25 Mbps Internet connection, switched internal network (currently only 100 Mbps), and 500 GB hard drive dedicated for podcasts.

My budget doesn't afford the absolute finest in home theater, but I have been attempting to follow trends since the late 1990's. I believe that quality can be had at many price platforms, and always want to know what compromises I'm making when purchasing less than the highest end. Here are a few thoughts for future episodes:

What is included in professional ISF calibration (http://www.imagingscience.com/)... is it worth it for home theater enthusiests?
Spyder3TV (http://spyder.datacolor.com/product-ht-s3tv.php) review.
HDMI Cables.... When does it matter if you use cheap cables versus expensive cables?
Audio receivers that auto-calibrate for room and speakers; how well do they calibrate compared to professionally calibrated sound systems?
Compare HDTV-capable streaming media players, such as the Roku (Netflix and Amazon), Vudo and similar services for Xbox360 and PS3 for picture/sound quality and ease of use.

dejrfan

07-19-2009, 09:20 AM

Great to see Heron and Norton together again... I'll be dl'ing every episode!

shike

07-20-2009, 11:23 AM

I find the HD Sound argument ridiculous.

The difference most people actually hear between the standard codecs and HD codecs is the mastering. If something is mastered like crap it doesn't matter what codec you use. The HD audio is usually taken from the theatrical release whereas the standard audio is ran through various unnecessary forms of processing and sound shaping.

Case in point:

Vinyl vs. CDs . . . which is superior? CD. Which sounds better usually? Vinyl. Why is this? Look up the loudness wars. Even though CDs offer an inherent better dynamic range sound engineers decided to compress the hell out of them dynamically (we're not talking size). Vinyl doesn't get the same treatment (usually, some "re-masters" do). This means vinyl more often than not has better dynamic range than it should. This means it benefits from more clarity, detail, and punch. The reason SACD and DVD-A became so damn popular to audiophiles was because they weren't dynamically compressed like CDs. People misinterpreted this as a benefit of 24bit audio and lossless transfer, but when re-encoded in lower bitrate and sampling rate people were hard pressed to find a difference.

Hopefully some studios get their heads out of their butts and figure out that all you really need is one well done soundtrack and you won't be faulted (first Transformers anyone?).

Next myth that needs to see a trash can: 1080P. You're sitting too damn close to the screen if you "see" a difference. Some people also like to "think" a difference so their brain makes one appear (similar to psychoacoustics).

sully213

07-20-2009, 06:50 PM

Excellent first show gentleman. A topic I'm looking forward to (hopefully) seeing from you is home theater on a tight budget. Not even a complete home theater setup, just the TV portion would be great. Money is always tight in my household, but even more so recently.

We've been planning on getting our first HD set for a while, but it seems our budget for it keeps dwindling, so any recommendations on a television in the sub $1000 range would be a great feature. Basically, I want to get every penny's worth out of the purchase so I don't suffer from buyer's remorse because I know it may be quite a long time before I can replace it with the million-80P set that will be out next year ;)

It's great seeing Robert and Patrick together yet again, also. They make a great team.

If it helps in getting my above idea into a show, I'm the number five folder on team 57391, for whatever that's worth and it was Robert's encouragement that got me to try out F@H program in the first place (switching over from a long time SETI@Home user).