Movie Reviewer / Audience Disconnect ?

[mavtrav]

I just got done listening to an episode of /filmcast and they went on another week bashing Transformers 2. Some reviewers are saying it is the worst movie they have ever seen. Without going into detail, we have all heard the awful reviews that fit into this mold: Transformers/Michael Bay is *expletive* *expletive*, *expletive*.

REALLY?? That bad. It seems as though this film has gotten all the aspiring film-makers to jump on this band wagon to hat on this movie.

I agree that it wasn't Great, it may not have been good, but the worst movie, i think not, I enjoyed it, my friends enjoyed it.

It just seems like there is a growing disconnect between what an audience enjoys and what a critic says is good.

I know this is not scientific but if you look at Rottentomatoes at critic score vs. community score the disconnect is clear.
CRITICS 19/100 COMMUNITY 68/100

Is this isolated to just Transformers? If so why? Are there other movies that critics destroyed but were actually pretty good?

[bjkrautk]

It just seems like there is a growing disconnect between what an audience enjoys and what a critic says is good.

I know this is not scientific but if you look at Rottentomatoes at critic score vs. community score the disconnect is clear.
CRITICS 19/100 COMMUNITY 68/100

Is this isolated to just Transformers? If so why? Are there other movies that critics destroyed but were actually pretty good?

Stockholm syndrome? (I know that part of my extreme dislike for the first Transformers-in-name-only film came from the realization that I paid good money to watch it. I can completely understand the need to rationalize that the film must not have been that bad, if you chose to buy a ticket.)

Another aspect of the disconnect is the "popcorn movie" mindset, that an audience is willing to forgive bad writing, plotholes, or flat-out inappropriate content for a movie targeted at kids....because it has 'splosions and lots of action. Playing the role of movie critic means not 'shutting your brain off' while the projector is running.

[everybodystalking]

There's also the fact that most reviewers are well above the target age for these types of movies, the farther away from that age you are, the less likely you are to enjoy it. For one, because you've seen these types before (and better, if only because they were what they saw first), and two because that's just not their wheelhouse anymore. Their tastes have grown.

It's like a kid may live and breathe wrestling from like 10-15 but they get over it, they grow up, they don't want to watch it anymore. They want to watch stuff more geared for them now, like Dexter or what have you.

[az0madman]

Here's a 10/10 user review for T2 from MetaCritic:

"I thought that this movie was funny as hell cuz every body in the theaters was laughing like hell and wen everybody came out of the movie they were still laughing there ass off."

Just saying that any user reviews like this make the total a bit bloated.

[tokenuser]

Here's a 10/10 user review for T2 from MetaCritic:

"I thought that this movie was funny as hell cuz every body in the theaters was laughing like hell and wen everybody came out of the movie they were still laughing there ass off."

Just saying that any user reviews like this make the total a bit bloated.BUT, is that review any less valid or relevant than a /filmcritic review?

I enjoy a popcorn movie.

[Bret]

well the answer is simple. transformers 2 is indeed garbage.

[tsmith15]

This is why I just go and see every movie that interests me, regardless of how its being reviewed. I saw the trailer for Up, was not impressed, saw Up, was still not impressed. I come home and it has 96%+ on rottentomatoes. I go see Transformers 2, come home madly entertained, and its below 20%.

I think you can sum up critics by saying the closer a movie is to 100% the closer it is to winning an Oscar, but the review score speaks nothing to whether or not you'll enjoy it.

[johnnysix]

A movie review is just a person opinion on the film. It is entirely subjective. If you're reading / listening to / watching a review it should be because you want to know THAT person's opinion of the film. In this respect your question, "Are there other movies that critics destroyed but were actually pretty good?" is actually loaded because you are presuming that there is some concrete objective notion of what makes a film "good". All art critique is entirely subjective.

Having said all this, Transformers 2 is actually, in reality, objectively a turd. :)

[joeyrock]

ying the closer a movie is to 100% the closer it is to winning an Oscar, but the review score speaks nothing to whether or not you'll enjoy it.

How can anyone question reviewers, who love and review films for a living, when they are pissed off at this film? Transformers 2 shows such distain for the art-form of "film". It pisses all over the "art" to the point where the final "product" is pure and unadulterated "business". It's the filmic equivalent of MacDonald's.. anyone who argues that "MacDonald's" has just as good food and is as valid a choice of restaurant as any Michelin star establishment... is an idiot.

But I suppose it all comes down to what you enjoy. Personally I don't two shits about a 1000 gallon gasoline explosion that takes 7 months to plan and shoot unless.... it's on mythbusters. Because how they pulled off something like that is far more interesting than any of the "story" in Transformers 2, that's why all the actors talk about 'splosions on chat shows... everyone involved knows the film itself is bullshit. There's is nothing to talk about.. it's a vapid advert for a line of toys.

The best movie explosion I've seen was in Children of Men.. know why? Because it looked real and was shocking and unexpected and there wasn't a massive mushroom cloud of flaming petrol rolling into the sky. Just like when a real bomb going off! ... they generally don't have 20 big barrels of fuel in them ;) Bay might as well have just lit his farts for all I care.. the action in this film was badly edited whimpy crap. I like my popcorn films with a little bit of reality and some badassery to them. If you think there was in this abomination then I'd suggest checking out Mythbuters rocket sled into a car video. That's what two big heavy metal objects coming together at 600mph looks like.. badass!

If you enjoyed this film you are wrong and you haven't seen enough movies. :p

[mavtrav]

I was not trying to re-lite the fire on this specific movie. It was just something I was thinking about, and it was a timely example.

This post was also not intended for people to judge each other based on movies they enjoyed or did not enjoy.

I guess i was trying to figure out what the point of "main-stream" critics is? I thought that they were there to say..."hey check this movie out, its not bad". Not..."this movie meets these specific characteristics/criteria every good film should contain, I know because I went to film school, so if you do not like this movie there is obviously something wrong with you."

I agree that there is a time and place when a movie should be reviewed on the aspect of Art, but is the Sunday Entertainment Section of the newspaper really the place for that?

I know Transformers sucked as an Art Film, or as an example of how a good film should be, but should it have even been held up to those same standards?
(Yes the movie was offensive to women and some minorities, but what "summer film" isn't, and i am not saying that is OK, it's not. But why is this specific film being burned at the stack while others get a pass?)

[johnnysix]

I think the opinion of a lot of critics is that it didn't even succeed on a purely superficial, popcorn action film level.

I think Michael Bay may have pushed too far this time, even for his own fans.

[tsmith15]

I don't think critics should make money, because there are more than enough people like us who review movies completely free, who can actually be related to on a much more reliable basis. I mean, how many people can relate near-perfectly with someone like Roger Ebert, compared to a panel of people in your age group with a common background, wealth, interests, etc.

The reason there's a disconnect is because you're not looking at a "clone" of yourself for the review. That's probably why a lot of the time people agree with the guys on the show, because it's the common interest in geek-dom driving the podcast and the viewers.

And why can't we just smash the idea that a film has to be art? The biggest reason to make a movie is to entertain, and some people are not entertained by art. Do I look at classic historical paintings and go "I'm really entertained right now."? Hell no. There are movies made just as art, movies made to raise awareness/change the world, etc. Not every movie has to do each thing.

[johnnysix]

Shit movies can be art too. Art is kind of a fuzzy thing.
Saying a movie is just mindlessly entertaining or saying that you just switch your brain off at the door seems like an excuse for shitty movies or at least a way to validate an opinion of what's generally regarded as a shitty movie.

I agree with Jeff when he challenges that notion. People shouldn't need to watch a movie that they need to have lobotomy to enjoy. There are loads of films around that are fun and also have interesting characters or stories. Let's stop lowering the bar.

[scootman]

yeah i don't like people just labeling Transformers 2 as "mindless fun". it was just "mindless" and pretty much stupid. i know Michael Bay was trying to give it a modern taste or whatever but come on. do you really think of humping dogs and robots when you think of a Transformers movie?

[poltah]

It's pretty clear what's going on. I'm not a reviewer, but I do watch a lot of film. And I know a lot about film structure, and what goes into making a film. I've made amateur stuff, I've gone to film school and so on.
This doesn't mean that my opinion is more right than anybody elses, but what it does mean is that when things are bad, it stands out more to me. As it does with reviewers. People who watch a shit ton of movies and really, really study film are gonna know a lot more about film.

It's like if I've never seen golf my entier life, and then watch 18 holes of golf. I won't be able to tell what a good swing is or not. I won't be able to say if somebody is a good player or not. I might be able to go "well that guy won, so he might be good".
But somebody who's been playing golf their whole life will notice all the small things, can tell you who's gonna win beforehand almost.

The more you know about a subject, the more you'll notice all the errors and stuff that doesn't work.

It goes the other way too though. Somebody who knows a lot about film will get so much more out of a great piece of cinema than somebody who "just" watches movies for fun.

[sugarsickness]

wait so there are people that would be against a weekly anti transformers 2 podcast? to be honest I'm waiting for one.

[tsmith15]

I'm glad I'm not picky. It seems like such a waste of time and money to not enjoy a movie. The only movie I have seen in theatres in the past year where the film, the experience, the food, etc. was not worth it was Fighting. And this is coming from a guy who sees a minimum 1 movie a week in theatres.

[poltah]

I'm glad I'm not picky. It seems like such a waste of time and money to not enjoy a movie. The only movie I have seen in theatres in the past year where the film, the experience, the food, etc. was not worth it was Fighting. And this is coming from a guy who sees a minimum 1 movie a week in theatres.

Well. My theory is that the more you know about movies, the lower the lows get, but the higher the highs get.

[joeyrock]

Well. My theory is that the more you know about movies, the lower the lows get, but the higher the highs get.

Plus being surprised or amazed is half the enjoyment. If you've seen a hundred crappy "popcorn films" .. then it's very easy to spot another from the trailer and most of the time you know exactly what's going to happen next and what the next line is going to be.

"I've always loved you, did I ever tell you that....." {random hero runs off to risk life}.. annnnnnnddddd so on.

That gets a bit tedious. Bay films are terrible for that.. the man has never been self critical or tried to challenge himself by putting a twist on his own clichés.

[poltah]

Yes, I totally agree. It's getting way to easy to guess what's going to happen in a movie, even if you're not trying at all. If you watch a lot of movies that is.

[scoobydiesel]

Do i think its a bad movie? yes....Did i have fun or enjoy some of it? yes...

thats me....just like critic and other people that see it..all different..

Just tossing my post in :-p

[bobafettjm]

I generally notice that if all the big critics hate on a movie I will most likely enjoy it. On the other side if one of these critics loves a movie I will more than likely not. I've noticed the same thing with Oscar winning movies, more often than not I do not enjoy them.

I really do not watch a whole lot of movies so I think that has a lot to do with it. When I usually watch a movie it is because I want to see some action scenes and explosions or laugh. I am not really into the completely serious, impactful, make you cry movies. Now that is not all the time, once in a while I can enjoy one of those movies, it's just not my general preference.

[punk0]

Every summer I see this subject come up on forums. And it's probably been talked about before any of us were born (Casablanca wasn't my bag. Now The Rear Gunner with Ronald Reagan.... that was cool daddy-o. These reviewers are just fuddy duddies).

I think people want to bring the opinions of reviewers down because they make them feel less than intelligent in the same way they write off scientific research when it doesn't fit their world view (Those scientists don't know what they're talking about. It's too cold outside my house today for there to be any such thing as global warming. My uncle lived to be 90 and smoked 3 packs a day, so smoking doesn't cause cancer. Etc). I haven't seen T2 yet, but I'm guessing there will be scenes that I'll like even though I probably won't care for the movie overall. The thing is, nobody expected T2 to do well with the critics. And when you make over $200 million the first week there are a lot of people going that don't see movies for the same reasons that seasoned film fans do. Many young males mainly see action movies and comedies, while many young women mainly go to see romantic comedies. That's fine, but I don't see any of those groups taking movie reviews seriously. I do see them complaining that reviewers don't know what they are talking about though. I've never found a reviewer that I agree with 100% of the time, but I'd trust most reviewers before I'd trust box office numbers any day.

[tsmith15]

I've never found a reviewer that I agree with 100% of the time.
I know a movie reviewer I agree with 100 % of the time. Me.

[punk0]

I know a movie reviewer I agree with 100 % of the time. Me.

I'm not even sure I agree with myself 100% of the time.

[heyseuss]

Just tossing my post in :-p

:eek: