Episode 101 - Spezify: A New Way To Search, Pandora.com Interview, Jolicloud Netbook OS, Safe Browsing Over Public WiFi, eSATA vs. Windows [Discussion] [Archive]

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View Full Version : Episode 101 - Spezify: A New Way To Search, Pandora.com Interview, Jolicloud Netbook OS, Safe Browsing Over Public WiFi, eSATA vs. Windows [Discussion]

serafina

08-13-2009, 11:47 PM

Veronica Interviews Tom Conrad, Pandora CTO, Make eSATA Play Nice With Windows, Jolicloud: the ultimate Netbook OS? Free Tool for School, Car Power for Notebooks!

Watch or download this episode here (http://revision3.com/tekzilla/jolicloud)

fee

08-14-2009, 12:52 AM

Cool Episode, I got to Jolicloud it is very cool! Also thanks for asking my question :) Also someone make that Patrick blooper into a GIF STAT!

ravenbladex

08-14-2009, 02:50 AM

lmao
That was the best ending of the show yet.
Dramatic Patrick!

crabcakes

08-14-2009, 08:16 AM

Yes, another great episode and probably the greatest outtakes section yet.

computoman

08-14-2009, 09:58 AM

As for jolicloud, no other distro makes you wait to download it.

http://img15.yfrog.com/img15/139/screenshot1bdj.pnghttp://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7046/screenshot3ahf.pnghttp://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4830/screenshot2z.png

So which picture was Patrick looking at?

filip007

08-14-2009, 11:14 AM

davmoo

08-14-2009, 11:26 AM

I must be odd. During Veronica's bit at the end, I thought of not Pippi Longstocking, but the image of the girl on the sign for Wendy's Restaurant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendy%27s).

fitchtec

08-14-2009, 03:19 PM

Hey guys, first time posting to the tekzilla board but I got a pretty good answer for the esata problem. Install windows 7... Yea I know not the optimal answer however Win7 treats esata drives as a removable storage device and you can remove the drive just like you would with a USB drive using the safely remove icon in your task bar. Also when plugging in a esata drive to a computer with win7 the OS doesn't stutter and freeze up temporarily like Vista does.

gadget_nut

08-14-2009, 05:34 PM

This is Ubuntu Remix and can be downloaded from...
http://www.ubuntu.com/GetUbuntu/download-netbook

I get jolicloud-robby-alpha2b-live.img over torrent and have problems burn it to CD or loaded in VirtualBox don't run...i will try with some hardcore burn software.

How you did it VeronicaZilla ???

You don't burn it to CD. You follow the instructions and use it to create a bootable thumb drive.
The OS is designed for netbook use and, therefore, not designed for use with an optical drive.

xfuuey

08-14-2009, 05:58 PM

cool episode. enjoyed the interview w/ Pandora CTO.

gadget_nut

08-14-2009, 06:03 PM

OK. Last segment. Regarding power inverters. I guess someone needs to offer some clarification.
First, a 400-watt inverter, plugged in to a cigarette lighter outlet(12-volt accessory outlet for those easily offended folks out there) will not deliver 400-watts. Due to cable size and run, it will be limited to about 200-watts max. To receive the full rated power, you'll need to use a heavier gauge cable and connect direct to the battery. The further you place the inverter from the battery, the heavier the cable needs to be. You'll also want a fuse in-line on the power side.
So, plugging a 400-watt inverter in to the cigarette lighter outlet doesn't give more available power than a 150-watt inverter plugged in to the same outlet. It just gives you an extra 110 outlet.
Also Veronica said you shouldn't expect to run a microwave with one. That's true, to a degree, but incomplete. No. A 400-watt inverter, plugged in to a cigarette lighter outlet, will not deliver enough power to run a microwave. Or any high-wattage hardware for that matter.
However, I currently run a large dorm-size refrigerator/freezer, a microwave, and a UPS(to provide power to 2 netbook chargers, a notebook charger, a desktop computer, a 26-inch LCD TV, an AppleTV, a cradlepoint router, a multi-function printer and a charging platform for all my hand held devices) using a 2500-watt inverter. The point being there are inverters sized for whatever your needs may be. You just need to get the right size and set it up correctly.

dom

08-14-2009, 06:30 PM

gadget_nut

08-14-2009, 06:57 PM

Jolicloud is a con. It's not an OS - it's some minimal social media bits and new graphics tacked on to Ubuntu Netbook Remix.

As has already been mentioned, you can download it already and it's wonderful. But stick to the original Ubuntu distribution and don't bother with Jolicloud.

Yeah. I got my invitation for the alpha. However, after seeing Veronica's review, I see I'm not missing anything by running NBR on my Acer. I can pretty much pass on the download.
Basically, take NBR, add Air, Gears, Flash and Wine, and Bob's-yer-uncle. If you want to run web-based apps, that is.

dom

08-14-2009, 08:37 PM

Yeah. I got my invitation for the alpha. However, after seeing Veronica's review, I see I'm not missing anything by running NBR on my Acer. I can pretty much pass on the download.
Basically, take NBR, add Air, Gears, Flash and Wine, and Bob's-yer-uncle. If you want to run web-based apps, that is.

Exactly - they installed all the apps most people will install anyway, then called it their own OS! The only thing they seem to have created themselves was a login system that tells all your friends what apps you've installed - and anyone who's ever used Facebook will know how annoying that can be. :)

Not Veronica's fault though, and I'd really like to see a Tekzilla segment talking about Ubuntu Netbook Remix, how easy it is to install and what a great interface it is for small screened devices. I think people are still scared to install something if it's called 'Linux' and they really shouldn't be.

davmoo

08-14-2009, 09:37 PM

I think people are still scared to install something if it's called 'Linux' and they really shouldn't be.

I don't think its so much that people are afraid of something called 'Linux'. I think its more of most people don't like change, and something called 'Windows' is what they are familiar with. Old habits die hard. If you put Linux on a netbook, gave it a UI that looks just like Windows, and used familiar program names, I honestly don't think the average Joe or average Jane would even notice something was different.

I've joked many times over the years that some day someone is going to invent a computer with the power of the human brain, runs for 5 years on a single AAA battery, and fits inside a 3-inch cube...and the first thing anybody is going to ask is "Will it run Windows?"

gadget_nut

08-14-2009, 09:50 PM

Exactly - they installed all the apps most people will install anyway, then called it their own OS! The only thing they seem to have created themselves was a login system that tells all your friends what apps you've installed - and anyone who's ever used Facebook will know how annoying that can be. :)

Not Veronica's fault though, and I'd really like to see a Tekzilla segment talking about Ubuntu Netbook Remix, how easy it is to install and what a great interface it is for small screened devices. I think people are still scared to install something if it's called 'Linux' and they really shouldn't be.

No. Nothing negative towards Veronica. Just saying her report was the first decent look I've had at Jolicloud.
I'd like to see anything substantive on any Linux-based distribution. Any other non-Mac Unix-like for that matter. There have only been a small handful of Rev3 shows that concentrated on Linux apps, Hak5 not withstanding, and they never got around to actually talking about Linux, Linux-based operating systems, the various BSD's or the ease of installation or use of a modern Unix-like OS.
It's a vicious circle. Unix-likes don't get much coverage in media. Even tech media. Why? The market's small. Why? People who use Unix-likes already know about them and those who don't are intimidated at the prospect. Why? Not enough media coverage and too many people, who've never used a Unix-like, telling others what a nightmare they are. And on and on.

gadget_nut

08-14-2009, 10:04 PM

I don't think its so much that people are afraid of something called 'Linux'. I think its more of most people don't like change, and something called 'Windows' is what they are familiar with. Old habits die hard. If you put Linux on a netbook, gave it a UI that looks just like Windows, and used familiar program names, I honestly don't think the average Joe or average Jane would even notice something was different.

I've joked many times over the years that some day someone is going to invent a computer with the power of the human brain, runs for 5 years on a single AAA battery, and fits inside a 3-inch cube...and the first thing anybody is going to ask is "Will it run Windows?"

I can buy that. RedHat 5.something was the first OS I used on any computer. I now have Windows XP on one netbook simply to run 3 application I need for work(Drivers Daily Log, PCMiler and TransFlo Now). Everything else is either Slackware, Zenwalk or Ubuntu. Well, except the iPod Touch and AppleTV, which run Mac OS and the 3 Palm devices running PalmOS. Oh. And my Motorola ROKR running MOTOMAGX, which is Linux-based.
But I Digress.
I know what a pain it was to start using something as foreign(to me) as Windows and couldn't see using it exclusively.

Here's something most people don't seem to grasp. People don't use operating systems. Applications and utilities use operating systems. People use applications.

computoman

08-14-2009, 10:32 PM

People who have not been brainwashed with winders or maccy take to linux like a duck to water. Those who have been brainwashed can also take to kinux like to a duck to water if you show them the equivalent applications first before getting into the os. There was a time when I would not touch linux. that changed quickly when I saw all the benefits.

Anything looks fast after running W7. But if you setup a slackware verison for the nettop, it will leave ubuntu in the dust as far as speed. Nor do I put ubuntu down, because i do use it on several desktops and servers. I also still easily run debian and slackware on my prehistoric pentium 1's with ease. Sure can not do that with osx or w7. Only recently did I move to a used original p4 for my internetting computer. linux has saved me thousands of dollars from not having to upgrade everything to the latest technology hardware wise.

A lady friend of my gave me two old pentium II computers to set up. One is now a Debian multi-purpose server for her small business office and the other is a Fedora desktop for that same office. Going mswindows would have cost her thousands of dollars in additional startup costs to purchase new hardware and software. With the economy the way it is, the free systems with linux will be a major help for the bottom line.

veronicazilla

08-14-2009, 10:54 PM

You don't burn it to CD. You follow the instructions and use it to create a bootable thumb drive.
The OS is designed for netbook use and, therefore, not designed for use with an optical drive.

What he said.

gadget_nut

08-14-2009, 10:54 PM

But if you setup a slackware verison for the nettop, it will leave ubuntu in the dust as far as speed.

I hope you're right. I've been working on that very thing. Custom compiled kernel, minimum libs, XFCE4.
It takes time and I don't have much. Being a truck driver, I have about 2 hours a day to shower, eat and do other things. The rest is taken up by driving, dealing with customers and sleep.
Then, I noticed the 13 release will be out soon. So, project is on hold until 13 is out.

Oh. Look at that. Close of business and no freight for the weekend. Guess I'm bouncing home. Be back after midnight.

gadget_nut

08-14-2009, 10:59 PM

What he said.

:cool: Hi Veronica!!

computoman

08-14-2009, 11:15 PM

This is Ubuntu Remix and can be downloaded from...
http://www.ubuntu.com/GetUbuntu/download-netbook

I get jolicloud-robby-alpha2b-live.img over torrent and have problems burn it to CD or loaded in VirtualBox don't run...i will try with some hardcore burn software.

How you did it VeronicaZilla ???

The torrent file is a disk image backup and not an iso file from what I have heard. I have also heard it works fine in a virtual machine if you use the img file as the virtual boot hard drive. if it were me I would dd (linux command line equivalent to ghost) it to a spare drive to play with.

computoman

08-14-2009, 11:19 PM

I hope you're right. I've been working on that very thing. Custom compiled kernel, minimum libs, XFCE4.
It takes time and I don't have much. Being a truck driver, I have about 2 hours a day to shower, eat and do other things. The rest is taken up by driving, dealing with customers and sleep.
Then, I noticed the 13 release will be out soon. So, project is on hold until 13 is out.

Oh. Look at that. Close of business and no freight for the weekend. Guess I'm bouncing home. Be back after midnight.

Before you re-invent the wheel you might take debian or slax for a spin. You also might consider icewm or lxde for a desktop as they seem to take less resources than xfce. icewm will with work with gnome apps.

filip007

08-15-2009, 06:56 AM

I get Boot error...with VirtualBox or special burn CD for that (Nero CD boot function burn) i will try with some floppy or USB boot simulation Nero support that then it must boot.

I get over torrent so i can't get to any instructions...

gadget_nut

08-15-2009, 08:11 AM

Before you re-invent the wheel you might take debian or slax for a spin. You also might consider icewm or lxde for a desktop as they seem to take less resources than xfce. icewm will with work with gnome apps.

I'll respond in Linux, BSD so as not to drive this thread too far off-topic.

gadget_nut

08-15-2009, 09:12 AM

dom

08-15-2009, 10:18 AM

here are the instructions and tools you need.
http://www.jolicloud.com/community/get-jolicloud

For Ubuntu Netbook Remix I just followed the instructions on the Ubuntu site and it worked perfectly.

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromImgFiles

My Acer has two SD card slots (one of which is bootable), so I just wrote it to an SDHC and booted that. Once I'd decided I liked it, I used Parted Magic (http://partedmagic.com/) to shrink my windows partition down and stuck Ubuntu on the new partition.

Everything works and it's all happy and shiny. Windows rarely gets started any more, but it's nice that it's there just in case.

eminemdrdre00

08-16-2009, 03:51 AM

Veronica Safari 4 has been out of beta for 2 months now!

veronicazilla

08-16-2009, 09:02 PM

Veronica Safari 4 has been out of beta for 2 months now!

Are you making a Glims joke, because if you are I'm going to punch you (lovingly) in the mouth ;)

For reference, if you have no idea what I'm talking about, please see:
http://twitter.com/Veronica/status/3317303596
http://twitter.com/Veronica/status/3317452296
http://twitter.com/Veronica/status/3317525886

cemilkor

08-16-2009, 09:11 PM

For the eSATA and to hot-swap SATA drives I use HotSwap! from Kaakoon (coder's handle I assume). It's a portable app (single .exe) and works with Win2000/XP/Vista/7.

http://mysite.verizon.net/kaakoon/hotswap/index_enu.htm

-ck

fee

08-16-2009, 10:38 PM

Are you making a Glims joke, because if you are I'm going to punch you (lovingly) in the mouth ;)

For reference, if you have no idea what I'm talking about, please see:
http://twitter.com/Veronica/status/3317303596
http://twitter.com/Veronica/status/3317452296
http://twitter.com/Veronica/status/3317525886

Oh no not again! ;)

davefriedel

08-17-2009, 06:25 AM

davefriedel

08-17-2009, 09:18 AM

Turns out my video question was on it. See me in all my nerdiness.

davefriedel

08-17-2009, 09:55 AM

Like this...

http://content.davefriedel.com/_files/revision3/jolicloud.jpg

dom

08-17-2009, 12:24 PM

Like this...

http://content.davefriedel.com/_files/revision3/jolicloud.jpg

Wow, so it's pronounced "Annoyingfluffy". I never knew that!

davefriedel

08-17-2009, 05:06 PM

Wow, so it's pronounced "Annoyingfluffy". I never knew that!

Yes, "Annoyingfluffy" was what I was thinking of. How did you know?

davmoo

08-17-2009, 05:16 PM

Wow, so it's pronounced "Annoyingfluffy". I never knew that!

Blasphemy!! Throw this guy out of here!!! :D

veronicazilla

08-17-2009, 08:42 PM

Like this...

http://content.davefriedel.com/_files/revision3/jolicloud.jpg

As opposed to:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/blindfolded/jollycloud.jpg

dom

08-17-2009, 11:21 PM

As opposed to:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/blindfolded/jollycloud.jpg

One day someone will come up with an OS called "PatrickNortonDoingAHulkImpressionWhileWearingAMini DressInHeaven". I can feel it in my bones.

summerstormpictures

08-18-2009, 02:13 AM

Since Jolicloud has been brought up, has anyone tried G.ho.st yet? I don't even remember where I first heard of it but it offers something like ''cloud computing'' with an interface akin to a Windows layout (very un-Mac-like).

I have barely scratched the surface of just how useful (or useless) it is and would love to hear from Veronica or Patrick on this.

davefriedel

08-18-2009, 02:57 AM

http://content.davefriedel.com/_files/revision3/joliescream.jpg

But there's only one 'L' !!! (Don't make Angie upset...)

computoman

08-18-2009, 06:14 AM

I prefer eyeos and you can host it yourself on your own server. eyeos does not take a whizbang machine to host it either.
http://eyeos.org/

summerstormpictures

08-18-2009, 02:19 PM

I have to admit, I'd trust a Google or Microsoft cloud environment before I'd trust a newcomer...at least with any sensitive or critical data or day-to-day use. They are the ''GM's'' of this sphere, and although even GM can ''fall down and go boom'' as we've seen, they've been around, will be around and have the resources to support something this big.

There really needs to be a solid security breakthrough, though, I think, before the masses swarm (or ''warm'') to this idea. Everyday now we hear of critical flaws in OS's and about ''bad guys'' hacking into and/or stealing financial records. Even SSL is vulnerable apparently.

The Internet to me is still reminiscent of those old movies where telephone conversations were essentially party lines. The infrastructure, real and virtual, needs attention.

tokenuser

08-18-2009, 04:02 PM

There really needs to be a solid security breakthrough, though, I think, before the masses swarm (or ''warm'') to this idea. Everyday now we hear of critical flaws in OS's and about ''bad guys'' hacking into and/or stealing financial records. Even SSL is vulnerable apparently.I work for a software company that does an online app for financial service organisations. No, this is not a fly by night web 2.0 jump on the bandwagon company, but one that has been in business for over 20 years, and been providing a web based "ASP" version (d'oh, that is soooo 2002) ... "SaaS" version (damn, welcome to 2006) ... let call it "Cloud Computing" version (yeah! cool ... new buzzword for the same stuff, that will keep marketing happy) since 2001.

Since we deal with financial data, we need to be anal about compliance and our hosting environments.

Lets start with SOX (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarbanes-Oxley_Act) (Sarbanes Oxley). For most companies it is a set of business practices, but for a software vendor it is putting measures in place that allow for the auditing and accountability to be performed. That has implications to the software and hardware infrastructures of the software your company is being run on. At least the "Cloud Computing/Storage" providers get that. SOX has been around for awhile, and if they are publicly traded, then they know the implications.

BUT, what about more esoteric items like SEC 17a3-17a4? This goes beyond the SOX auditing, and goes to detailed audit trails and the concept of "write once ready many" storage - ie a guarantee that data written cannot be altered once stored.

Then we move onto SAS70 Type II certification. OK. I think this one is complete BS, because it is a procedural audit based on accounting practices, and not software and security practices ... but financial firms like to see it, so we like to see our suppliers have it.

Then we get to ISO27001 - Information Security and Management. A global standard (and one the supersedes SAS70).

I know these are more cloud storage issues, but cloud computing without consideration of cloud storage is pretty much pointless ... but that brings me to my biggest issue with this technology.

No one at the companies involved wants to talk to you about security compliance. They have some white papers that go in security, but say nothing about compliance. Unfortunately compliance often means knowing exactly where the data resides at any point in time, and in a cloud environment, that could be anywhere. It also means a tested backup and recovery strategy ... and again, that could be anywhere.

None of these issues are insurmountable, but they do indicate a level of maturity for the technology (ie, its not quite there yet for a corporate environment).

computoman

08-19-2009, 03:20 AM

Anyone tried Firefly linux on their nettop/netbook yet?
http://fireflylinux.com/

revision3fan

08-20-2009, 09:10 PM

In regards to the VPN segment:

Connect an ethernet cable from the computer to an ethernet port. That way there is no Wi-Fi problem.

In regards to the car inverter:

Can two car power sockets be combined to provide more power, either from one or more than one cars?

Exhaust manifold cooking is another reason for the Tekzilla CES Road Trip that I always suggest.

dolphin_oracle

09-17-2009, 04:19 PM

Jolicloud did have some compelling features...one click install of common apps being one. However, most of the "webapps" such as facebook, gmail, etc... are using mozilla prism, which is readily available on all platforms now. There is even a firefox plugin to make any page into a prism-based webapp.

To me, it isn't the distro (ubuntu) that's alpha, it their back end service. I'm interested in seeing how it fleshes out.

Netbook remix has never really done anything for me, so that aspect of jolicloud wasn't really compelling. Joli's and ubuntu's version run a little slow on my eee904ha.

computoman

09-17-2009, 05:31 PM

Only the 9.1 version of ubuntu is alpha. Versions 9.04 and earlier are not. There are a lot faster distros than Jolicloud ubuntu. It is a shame that the developers of jolicloud did not take the time to trim the fat. Most of the traditional community do not use it. There are several better choices that are turnkey also.

Cloud computing are just a buzz words to charge you more for a same old web/file server. "new and improved?"

Square space commercials are insulting. There is still a lot of web development done, just not where you can see it. You do not have to do a website by yourself. it is only just a matter of who gets paid, How portable is squares pace content to other systems for redundacy reasons? It usually not good to have single vendor proprietary lock in. Your pocketbook will eventually become a slave to it.

tokenuser

09-17-2009, 06:00 PM

I've joked many times over the years that some day someone is going to invent a computer with the power of the human brain, runs for 5 years on a single AAA battery, and fits inside a 3-inch cube...and the first thing anybody is going to ask is "Will it run Windows?"Bah ... Windows would come preinstalled.

The question people would ask is "Can it run Linux?".

gadget_nut

09-17-2009, 11:59 PM

Bah ... Windows would come preinstalled.

The question people would ask is "Can it run Linux?".

Wouldn't it be more correct to ask "Can Linux run the machine"? Or, even more correct, "Can [X] Linux-based OS run it"?
Since, Linux isn't an OS and computers don't run OS's. OS's run computers.;)

computoman

09-18-2009, 08:45 AM

davmoo

09-18-2009, 08:52 AM

Linux is a kernel, and nothing more. GNU/Linux is an OS.

Set up one of your machines to load nothing but the kernel and tell me how useful it is.

tokenuser

09-18-2009, 02:25 PM

Wouldn't it be more correct to ask "Can Linux run the machine"? Or, even more correct, "Can [X] Linux-based OS run it"?
Since, Linux isn't an OS and computers don't run OS's. OS's run computers.;)It would be, but most Linux users cant grasp that distinction, and most Windows users don't care - provided it runs the apps they need.

gadget_nut

09-19-2009, 05:44 AM

Funny. Linux is an operating system. If not my computers must be running on divine intervention, Linux and Bsd run on more systems than Microsoft ever has including super computers. The questions where we live are: What is not running on linux? and what;'s Microsoft?

Linux is not an operating system. It is the kernel. The core around which an operating system is built. A set of instructions which tells drivers, utilities and applications how to interact with each other and the hardware they run.
Slackware is an operating system. Ubuntu is an operating system. RedHat, Fedora, Mandriva, Debian, Gentoo, etc. are all operating systems.

It would be the same thing if you had said Darwin is the OS running Mac's.