Obama's Team Posts that Right Wingers are Terrorists

[secret-steve-crumbles]

Apparently if you disagree with Obama, you are now a terrorist. You have to do everything he says. If you have a different idea, too bad. You're a terrorist.

Obama posted on his website: mybarackobama.com the other day the following post:

---
Our US Senators return to DC the Tues after Labor Day. That next FRIDAY, Sep 11, is Patriot Day, designated in memory of the nearly three thousand who died in the 9/11 attacks.

All 50 States are coordinating in this – as we fight back against our own Right-Wing Domestic Terrorists who are subverting the American Democratic Process, whipped to a frenzy by their Fox Propaganda Network ceaselessly re-seizing power for their treacherous leaders.

DO YOU WANT to ensure passage of the Public Plan? Since 75% of Americans support it, I guess it's time for us Seventy-Five Percenters to be heard. Why Public Plan? = Because It’s American To Take Care Of Our Own!

And, according to a White House Advisor to the President with whom I spoke ten days ago at a DNC Panel, he said, "ON ONE DAY you 'burn-up' the Senate Switchboards - THE NEXT DAY you've got the Senator's attention". We will achieve that effect, on Friday, Patriot Day 9/11...

After the Senate phone numbers, the rant picks up again:

2 PHONE CALLS ON 9/11 – BE A TRUE PATRIOT –

DEFEAT ANTI-DEMOCRATIC FORCES OF HATE WHO CONSPIRE TO REMAIN HEALTHY + WEALTHY WHILE THE PUBLIC LANGUISHES UNDER THE BURDEN OF OUR PRESENT HEALTH CARE SYSTEM –

—-* RECLAIM OUR LAND FROM THE HEIRS OF, YES: BIN LADEN *—-* YOU KNOW IT'S TRUE *—-

----

He took the page down already (http://my.barackobama.com/page/event/detail/healthcareorganizingevent/gpk4cj), but still. Great leader! Agree with him or you're a terrorist!

http://blog.heritage.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/highlightedversion.jpg

[danhauk]

Hmm... did you happen to notice this on the bottom of the page? Particularly the line "not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee."

http://messofmusic.com/images/mybarackobama.jpg

I don't think Obama posts anything on this site as you stated.

EDIT: Also, checking out their TOS, users can post on the site as well. I could be wrong, but this sounds like an extreme left-wing nut posting and was probably removed when the admins of the site saw it.

You should probably look into things like this before taking them seriously.

[phatlip]

As Dan pointed out, this wasn't posted by Obama. barackobama.com was Obamas site during the campaign, but since evolved into a social networking site called "Organizing for America".

The sites focus is basically community organizing and using social networking to get people involved in Washington policy on a local level.

This would be like someone posting something offensive on Facebook. You surly wouldn't blame Mark Zuckerberg for posting it, anyone can post anything.

Obama and the site did nothing wrong. They didn't post it, and when the questionable content came to their attention they removed it.

Though, domestic terrorism from the right is indeed an uprising problem that shouldn't be taken lightly. Of course that doesn't make everyone on the right or with a different opinion a terrorist. But there has been an increase in right wing extremism.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

Though, domestic terrorism from the right is indeed an uprising problem that shouldn't be taken lightly. Of course that doesn't make everyone on the right or with a different opinion a terrorist. But there has been an increase in right wing extremism.You and Gibbs would make a great couple. You both just say shit without any proof of anything. Care to prove your "the right" terrorism uprising? Hahaha, you call me crazy.

Didn't a left wing terrorist bite off a finger of someone (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090903/ap_on_re_us/us_finger_severed) who didn't oppose health care the other day? Stupid left wing terrorist.

[tokenuser]

Timothy McVeigh
James Wenneker von Brunn
Daniel Patrick Boyd

Idiots who post crap like that on websites prove that political ideology is no indicator of intelligence. There are morons on the left and right.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

There are morons on the left and right.Right, I totally agree. But to accuse the right of being a uprising terrorist group is horse shit. Just sounds like thoughtless dribble spewed around in the leftist circles with no grounds.

[phatlip]

You and Gibbs would make a great couple. You both just say shit without any proof of anything. Care to prove your "the right" terrorism uprising? Hahaha, you call me crazy.

Didn't a left wing terrorist bite off a finger of someone (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090903/ap_on_re_us/us_finger_severed) who didn't oppose health care the other day? Stupid left wing terrorist.

Remember that guy who showed up to Obamas town hall meeting with an assault riffle? It turns out he was in an anti-government militia back in the 90's which had plans to bomb federal buildings.

You also have people at these tea party's talking about overthrowing the government. Not to mention all the shootings we saw early this summer.

[phatlip]

Right, I totally agree. But to accuse the right of being a uprising terrorist group is horse shit. Just sounds like thoughtless dribble spewed around in the leftist circles with no grounds.

That's not what I said. I said there are those on the right who are extremists (as there are on the left). However, the ones on the right are uprising and we should keep an eye on them. I explicitly said this doesn't include everyone on the right.

You accuse me of not reading but you're the one who doesn't read things.

The right isn't an uprising terrorist group. But the EXTREMISTS on the right are uprising.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

You need help.

Actually, I take that back. You need an opinion.

[phatlip]

You need help.

Actually, I take that back. You need an opinion.

That's logical, ignore the facts I just stated and say I need help. I mean, I could understand you saying that if I were a wacko who hoped the president died, or perhaps so paranoid I had to bring a gun with me wherever I go, but that's not the case.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

That's logical, ignore the facts I just stated and say I need help.OK, let's look over your facts. The guy with the gun at the obama ralley that was staged (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/18/obama.protest.rifle/) and revealed as nothing more than a radio stunt (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/18/right-wing-radio-host-sta_n_262559.html) is part of your proof.... oh... man, great proof.

OK, ok, let's see what your next proof is...

Oh, some vauge refrence to "some" people "wanting to overthrow the government" at the tea parties. Well shit. I guess your proof of this (and that they were right wingers too) is overwhelming. I don't even really know how to defend it...

And your final facts are... oh oh, another vague refrence to some shootings this summer. Shit, I guess you're right. Another slam dunk argument. You need to be on high alert.

So... you're right. I did ignore your facts. Because you did too.

Now, back to the leftist terrorist who bit off a finger. Shit, I'm warning everyone about the uprising.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

I mean, I could understand you saying that if I were a wacko who hoped the president died, or perhaps so paranoid I had to bring a gun with me wherever I go, but that's not the case.Really? Same tired arguments without ever listening. Again, you love baby killers, I don't. I don't wear a gun because I'm paranoid. More arguments of opinions... still grasping at straws....

[phatlip]

OK, let's look over your facts. The guy with the gun at the obama ralley that was staged (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/18/obama.protest.rifle/) and revealed as nothing more than a radio stunt (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/18/right-wing-radio-host-sta_n_262559.html) is part of your proof.... oh... man, great proof.

OK, ok, let's see what your next proof is...

Oh, some vauge refrence to "some" people "wanting to overthrow the government" at the tea parties. Well shit. I guess your proof of this (and that they were right wingers too) is overwhelming. I don't even really know how to defend it...

And your final facts are... oh oh, another vague refrence to some shootings this summer. Shit, I guess you're right. Another slam dunk argument. You need to be on high alert.

So... you're right. I did ignore your facts. Because you did too.

Now, back to the leftist terrorist who bit off a finger. Shit, I'm warning everyone about the uprising.

Would you accept a source from the Department of Homeland security? I can provide it, but that's the best you can possibly get. I'm not in charge of our national security, but they are, and confirmed what I'm saying. If that doesn't convince you nothing will.

[phatlip]

Homeland Security Report Warns Of Rising Right-Wing Extremism (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/14/homeland-security-report_n_186834.html)

*DISCLAIMER*

The Huffington Post is a liberally bias site. However, my focus isn't on the article, but on the attached document in the article from Homeland Security.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

Homeland Security Report Warns Of Rising Right-Wing Extremism (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/14/homeland-security-report_n_186834.html)

*DISCLAIMER*

The Huffington Post is a liberally bias site. However, my focus isn't on the article, but on the attached document in the article from Homeland Security.LOL, that is seriously you're proof? I remember when that stupid shit came out. You know Ron Paul was on that list? Oh, and veterans as well (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/16/napolitano-stands-rightwing-extremism/). Their guide lines were: general anti-government feelings or prefer local/state government to federal control over everything. This is the report you believe in that you've been touting off to your democrat friends about the right wing uprising.

Next.

[phatlip]

LOL, that is seriously you're proof? I remember when that stupid shit came out. You know Ron Paul was on that list? Oh, and veterans as well (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/16/napolitano-stands-rightwing-extremism/). Their guide lines were: general anti-government feelings or prefer local/state government to federal control over everything. This is the report you believe in that you've been touting off to your democrat friends about the right wing uprising.

Next.

I'm sorry, but if that doesn't convince you nothing will. I gave you examples in addition to a document released from the Department of Homeland confirming what I said. What kind of proof are you expecting? Honestly, what do you expect? You tell me and I'll do my best to provide it. I just don't know what more you want.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

I'm sorry, but if that doesn't convince you nothing will. I gave you examples in addition to a document released from the Department of Homeland confirming what I said. What kind of proof are you expecting? Honestly, what do you expect? You tell me and I'll do my best to provide it. I just don't know what more you want.Oh, OK, so what you're saying is that you believe our veterans are a threat.

Wow, you're fucking crazy and believe anything you're spoon fed.

As I said, you need an opinion.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

BOOGIE BOOGIE BOOGIE! Watch out, RON PAUL'S GONNA GET YA!!

Hahahahahahhaa! Oh phatlip....

[phatlip]

Again, what kind of proof would you like to have? What do you expect?

[phatlip]

BOOGIE BOOGIE BOOGIE! Watch out, RON PAUL'S GONNA GET YA!!

Hahahahahahhaa! Oh phatlip....

Just so you know, it really makes you look like an idiot when someone you're having a debate with presents facts, asks you a question,and you respond back with something like this. What, you don't have anything else of value to say? Cat got your tongue?

[danhauk]

Wow, you're fucking crazy and believe anything you're spoon fed.


Wait, but you believed Obama and his team posted something about right-wing domestic terrorists, didn't you? Hey there, Pot, meet Kettle. :rolleyes:

[secret-steve-crumbles]

Again, what kind of proof would you like to have? What do you expect?Um... actual proof instead of some report based on this stupid chicks opinion? Call me crazy.... I thought you had some actual proof you were talking about. If this report that generalizes anyone who supports not wanting the government to run everything as a terrorist, then not only is the report flawed, but so is your logic.

Just so you know, it really makes you look like an idiot when someone you're having a debate with presents facts, asks you a question,and you respond back with something like this. What, you don't have anything else of value to say? Cat got your tongue?I know, I remember this one time I was in a debate and the guy came back totally off subject accusing me of being paranoid for carrying a gun! It was crazy!

Boogie boogie, watch out, the veterans are back from the war! Boogie boogie!

[secret-steve-crumbles]

Wait, but you believed Obama and his team posted something about right-wing domestic terrorists, didn't you? Hey there, Pot, meet Kettle. :rolleyes:Did you read the title of the thread I created?

[danhauk]

Did you read the title of the thread I created?

I did. I also read your comment before the story post.

Apparently if you disagree with Obama, you are now a terrorist. You have to do everything he says. If you have a different idea, too bad. You're a terrorist.

Obama posted on his website: mybarackobama.com the other day the following post:

Obama and/or his team is not in charge of this site. You thinking that and stating that as a fact makes me think you believe Obama thinks this way, which is ridiculous and crazy.

[phatlip]

Um... actual proof instead of some report based on this stupid chicks opinion? Call me crazy.... I thought you had some actual proof you were talking about. If this report that generalizes anyone who supports not wanting the government to run everything as a terrorist, then not only is the report flawed, but so is your logic.

What kind of proof would you like then? I know you don't believe this, but assume for a second that what I'm saying is true and I had to prove it to you. What would it take? What else can I possibly do to prove it? Seriously. I gave you examples in addition to something from the Department of Homeland security- the same people in charge of our national security. You know, the same agency Bush created. You once said Bush did a good job of protecting us after 9/11. The Department of Homeland security was in charge of that.

So you trusted them before...but you don't now?

Here's an idea. Why don't we both save our time. Just come right out and say you're only going to believe what you want to believe, and nothing I can say or do will change that. Because that's basically what this is coming down to.


Oh, I'll also save you the trouble of posting an immature personal attack/stupid post ignoring what I said:

"Phatlip STOOPID! LOLZ. BOOGIE WOGGIE! Socialism"

There ya go. I'm making this easy for you aren't I?

[secret-steve-crumbles]

What kind of proof would you like then?ACTUAL PROOF. A confirmed giant group of uprising right wing terrorists that you claim exist. Since you know they do, shouldn't be hard to show. Until then, it's all just "phatlips" opinion.

I gave you examples in addition to something from the Department of Homeland security- the same people in charge of our national security.No, you didn't give any examples. You gave me vauge refrences to something that you claim happened.

You know, the same agency Bush created. You once said Bush did a good job of protecting us after 9/11. The Department of Homeland security was in charge of that.Uh, the Department of Homeland security =/= Obama's Napolitano chick who hates republicans. Did you bother to read the report about what IN HER OPINION caused concern? You saw that, right? ANYONE who doesn't want the government to run things is a terrorist. ANYONE. Great report. Stupid bitch.

Here's an idea. Why don't we both save our time. Just come right out and say you're only going to believe what you want to believe, and nothing I can say or do will change that. Because that's basically what this is coming down to.Here's an idea, before you go around making accusations, have some proof to back it up.

Still waiting on the random "shootings that happened at some point in time" and you also got pretty owned on the assault rifle incident...

There ya go. I'm making this easy for you aren't I?Considering your slams against me were done by you in the post before, yea, I'd say so.

[secret-steve-crumbles]

Obama and/or his team is not in charge of this site.Really? The DNC isn't his team? Shit, Obama really is the next messiah!

[phatlip]

I'm done with this. Look, I already explained this to you and backed up what I said from a government agency who's very job is keeping us safe from this sort of stuff. Whether or not you believe it isn't my problem.

This entire thread is pointless. You couldn't even do your own research to see that Obama didn't post that on his site. You sir are the one who's spoon feed. You believe everything the GOP and Glenn Beck tells you. But that's your prerogative. But I'm not going to wast anymore of my time debating with an illogical person like yourself.

[danhauk]

Really? The DNC isn't his team? Shit, Obama really is the next messiah!

He is!

[secret-steve-crumbles]

I'm done with this. Look, I already explained this to you and backed up what I said from a government agency who's very job is keeping us safe from this sort of stuff. Whether or not you believe it isn't my problem.

This entire thread is pointless. You couldn't even do your own research to see that Obama didn't post that on his site. You sir are the one who's spoon feed. You believe everything the GOP and Glenn Beck tells you. But that's your prerogative. But I'm not going to wast anymore of my time debating with an illogical person like yourself.Oh no's! Now who will help me with my mac questions at the mac store!

[phatlip]

Oh no's! Now who will help me with my mac questions at the mac store!

That doesn't even make sense. Are you schizophrenic or something? ADD possibly?

[cucumberboy]

Steve. Put down your tinfoil hat and get some sleep.

[dam7ri]

You need help.

Actually, I take that back. You need an opinion.

Here is an opinion, step back from the computer, take your medication, and try again. Now that I have you in a hissie fit, I will explain to you why you, the right wing-nuts, Republicans, Christian fundamentalist, birthers, deathers, 9/11 conspirators, holocaust deniers, and those toothless sacks of crap from the "Wow" thread are full of crap.

1) You have no interest in the facts,
2) Nothing (not even the truth) will dissuade you from trying to convince people stupider than you of your misguided opinion, and
3) your miopic view of the world is one where your opinion is the only one that exists.

To quote the immortal Pink Floyd, "I got some bad news for you, sunshine!" You lost the last election. Those of us who live our lives with our heads out of our asses have had to deal with 8 years of the colossal fuck-up that you adore, but now it is our turn. Crawl back in your hole, masturbate to pictures of Sarah Palin, and wait for 2012.

Until then, try to remember, Barack Obama is the President of the United States of America, whether you like it or not. If he has something to say, he doesn't need a eponymous website to say it. He can it through legitimate news outlets, and then you can hear it taken out of context (or completely distorted) on Faux News.

BTW, Don't you think a government official would use a .gov domain? How do you type while wearing a straitjacket?

[rabidbadger]

Here is an opinion, step back from the computer, take your medication, and try again. Now that I have you in a hissie fit, I will explain to you why you, the right wing-nuts, Republicans, Christian fundamentalist, birthers, deathers, 9/11 conspirators, holocaust deniers, and those toothless sacks of crap from the "Wow" thread are full of crap.

1) You have no interest in the facts,
2) Nothing (not even the truth) will dissuade you from trying to convince people stupider than you of your misguided opinion, and
3) your miopic view of the world is one where your opinion is the only one that exists.

To quote the immortal Pink Floyd, "I got some bad news for you, sunshine!" You lost the last election. Those of us who live our lives with our heads out of our asses have had to deal with 8 years of the colossal fuck-up that you adore, but now it is our turn. Crawl back in your hole, masturbate to pictures of Sarah Palin, and wait for 2012.

Until then, try to remember, Barack Obama is the President of the United States of America, whether you like it or not. If he has something to say, he doesn't need a eponymous website to say it. He can it through legitimate news outlets, and then you can hear it taken out of context (or completely distorted) on Faux News.

BTW, Don't you think a government official would use a .gov domain? How do you type while wearing a straitjacket?

I love you so much right now. LOL.

[bigshotprof]

Right, I totally agree. But to accuse the right of being a uprising terrorist group is horse shit. Just sounds like thoughtless dribble spewed around in the leftist circles with no grounds.

While we are on the subject of proof, show me a person with any authority who as said "the right" is an uprising terrorist group. They are saying that there is another upswing of activity among right wing extremists (not "the right") who are going back to the combat camps and prosyletizing of Posse Commitatus, the Aryan Identity movement, etc. These people were and are terrorists by any sane definition. They assassinated State Policemen and judges. They burned down court houses and churches. They stalked and harassed anyone who disagreed with them and killed at least one Left wing radio host who took them on.

The same people (or their descendants) in the same places with the same tactics are at it again. Only this time they have the internet to help. I find it compelling that a 5 month old baby can get kicked off a plane because his name is on the terrorist watch list, but an idiot with an assault rifle can be 500 feet from the President. It is not only fair to level these charges it would be unconsciounable not to. The primary reason these groups lost favor before was that major right wing figures came out loudly and publicly against them--the same way they did against the John Birch Society in the 1950s and 60s. This time around those same major right wing figures either ignore them or actively spur them on.

Its time for the responsible right wing to stand up to its radical fringe. How about we start with you.

[kishkumen]

Remember that guy who showed up to Obamas town hall meeting with an assault riffle? It turns out he was in an anti-government militia back in the 90's which had plans to bomb federal buildings.

You also have people at these tea party's talking about overthrowing the government. Not to mention all the shootings we saw early this summer.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

So I guess Thomas Jefferson is a terrorist now...

[rabidbadger]

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

So I guess Thomas Jefferson is a terrorist now...

That's a fine sentiment, if these so called "patriots" were actually under the reign of a "Tyrant" as Jefferson was at the time.

[phatlip]

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

So I guess Thomas Jefferson is a terrorist now...

Obama is a tyrant huh? That's cute. You need a history lesson. :)

[tokenuser]

Obama is a tyrant huh? That's cute. You need a history lesson. :)I don't think you get the point here ...

This is a quote referring to healthcare. Under Obama, blood banks will come under government control (do blood banks qualify for TARP?), and the House of Reps and the Senate will be expected to give blood.

[dam7ri]

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

So I guess Thomas Jefferson is a terrorist now...

Thomas Jefferson also advocated a revolution every 20 years or so. Have you been trying to organize one for a while, or only since the black guy became President?

BTW, the quote that you and the rest of the sore loser right (though often wrong) wing conservative seem so willing to take out of context is a direct reference to the sentiments expressed in the Declaration of Independence, that being that if and when the government is not directed by and acting in the interests of the people (not a minority of whiny little bitches who can't stand the fact that the President is not another retard from Texas), then it is incumbent on the people to fight for a government that will serve them.

Go back to the Schoolhouse Rock videos. You might learn something, besides what a conjunction is, and what's its function.

[mikec]

Thomas Jefferson also advocated a revolution every 20 years or so. Have you been trying to organize one for a while, or only since the black guy became President?

BTW, the quote that you and the rest of the sore loser right (though often wrong) wing conservative seem so willing to take out of context is a direct reference to the sentiments expressed in the Declaration of Independence, that being that if and when the government is not directed by and acting in the interests of the people (not a minority of whiny little bitches who can't stand the fact that the President is not another retard from Texas), then it is incumbent on the people to fight for a government that will serve them.

Go back to the Schoolhouse Rock videos. You might learn something, besides what a conjunction is, and what's its function.

I have been voting for candidates of all races and religions since '79. Not just when it became trendy. Thank you for showing, again, how many of liberal left must use insults and racism claims to try to show that they are correct.

[phatlip]

I have been voting for candidates of all races and religions since '79. Not just when it became trendy. Thank you for showing, again, how many of liberal left must use insults and racism claims to try to show that they are correct.

Oh, like Rush saying we need segregated buses again?

[mikec]

Oh, like Rush saying we need segregated buses again?

I have no idea who this Rush is or what they have said? I think for myself and decide for myself.

BTW, have you possibly considered someone might say something to cause shock and make people debate issues?

[phatlip]

I have no idea who this Rush is or what they have said? I think for myself and decide for myself.

BTW, have you possibly considered someone might say something to cause shock and make people debate issues?

Rush is the unofficial leader of the Republican party.

Saying you want segregated buses to debate what issues? Hating black people?

[bobv13]

a related opinion article

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/printpage/?url=http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/09/21/strangers_to_dissent_liberals_try_to_stifle_it_983 73.html

[tokenuser]

Michael Barone (the authro of that piece) is generally a fairly level headed (ie non confrontational, facts not fiction) conservative, but I think in this case he missed the mark.

The call to "stop the bickering" is not to shut down the discussion, but to shut down the shouting and the outright falsification of information so that a discussion CAN be had.

Until the rightwing media stop FOCUSING ON THE PEOPLE SHOUTING THE LOUDEST AND TALKING HEADS LIKE MICHELLE MALKIN and start focusing on facts (not speculation - because at this point nothing is set, there are multiple bills in process, but they are all just starting points - to set the tone for the discussion.

The left are just as guilty, but I think the problem they are having is trying to find someone on the right who is not waving a Hitler poster and making Nazi aspersions so that a discussion CAN actually take place, so they are seen as trying to shut down the discussion ... but, to quote Barney Frank "Trying to have a conversation with you would be like arguing with a dining room table."

Until they stop getting furniture at townhall meetings, and instead get people who know how to have a rational debate, and bring alternatives to the *ahem* table, or at least are able to ask probing questions, there is going to be an ongoing appearance of trying to shut down discussion.

Health care should not be about race, and regardless of the race of the guy on the bus who got beaten, or the colour of the kids that did it - NOONE should live in a society where they need to fear being around other people ... regardless of colour or ethnicity.

[bobv13]

tokenuser, I believe it is somewhat like you said. "Until they stop getting furniture at townhall meetings, and instead get people who know how to have a rational debate, and bring alternatives to the *ahem* table, or at least are able to ask probing questions, there is going to be an ongoing appearance of trying to shut down discussion."

I'm just not sure who you mean by "they". I believe for the most part the "they" is the media. I have had first hand experience of town hall meetings where everyone with only the exception of a very few were very civil. I just don't think that a peaceful meeting makes exciting news or entertaining YouTube. "if it bleeds it leads"

The people in the middle need to become more vocal, weather they come from the right or the left.

[tokenuser]

tokenuser, I believe it is somewhat like you said. "Until they stop getting furniture at townhall meetings, and instead get people who know how to have a rational debate, and bring alternatives to the *ahem* table, or at least are able to ask probing questions, there is going to be an ongoing appearance of trying to shut down discussion."

I'm just not sure who you mean by "they". I believe for the most part the "they" is the media. I have had first hand experience of town hall meetings where everyone with only the exception of a very few were very civil. I just don't think that a peaceful meeting makes exciting news or entertaining YouTube. "if it bleeds it leads"

The people in the middle need to become more vocal, weather they come from the right or the left.The "they" I was referring to are the people opposing health care reform, whether they are being rallied by the media (traditional or non traditional) or not.

Unfortunately, the loudest at these meetings (and they are the disruptive ones) get the coverage, and that diverts the attention away from the real issues at hand.

The call of "You Lie!" became the focus on that section of Obama's health care speech ... while the uinderlying question of "Will illegal immigrants be entitled to benefits" got ignored by the press. FFS ... how about someone answers the question, and moves on.

And the answer is "No, they will not qualify for insurance benefits"

... and that is a different question to "Will they qualify for health care?" To which the answer is "If they want to pay out of pocket they can still see a doctor" and the hidden answer of "noone gets turned away from an ER". The irony is that for those (illegals, uninsured) people - like all Americans (and legal residents) who currently have insurance - it will be a continuation of their current circumstances.

[bobv13]

The call of "You Lie!" became the focus on that section of Obama's health care speech ... while the uinderlying question of "Will illegal immigrants be entitled to benefits" got ignored by the press. FFS ... how about someone answers the question, and moves on.

And the answer is "No, they will not qualify for insurance benefits"



This is where I have a doubt about Obama's sincerity, because he also speaks of a plan is to legalize current illeages, so the net affect will be to provide healthcare to illegals and so, Obama does lie. That is just one problem.

[tokenuser]

This is where I have a doubt about Obama's sincerity, because he also speaks of a plan is to legalize current illeages, so the net affect will be to provide healthcare to illegals and so, Obama does lie. That is just one problem.Not disingenuous at all - they are separate issues.

And ... if you look at the record on immigration, the GOP are the ones that keep pushing for legalisation strategies. The Dems are more focused on the temporary work permits side of things - so that they are documented aliens, and not illegal aliens.

FWIW - I am a non-resident alien. I am here legally, and jumping through hoops to get my greencard. I have paid 10s of thousand of dollars in legal and processing fees over the past several years (yes, I have been undergoing this process for a long time now). The thing that really pisses me off, is that after everything I've gone through to do it right - someone hops over a fence and could get a legal status before I do. In the mean time, I am sitting in the queue - all my paperwork processed - in a grey limbo area just waiting for the State Department to open up the numbers, and give me a damn card. That could still be a couple more years.

In the mean time, I pay the same taxes you all do, my wife (also a non-resident alien) is a tenured Prof at a state university, we both have private medical insurance, and are not a burden to the US government at all - yet we are made to wait.

My hate for immigration reform is bipartisan - the Republicans did fuck all about it under Bush, and the Democrats are continuing the trend under Obama.

[bobv13]

Oh, and BTW I'd join the Tea Party protest too if it were not for all the "nut jobs". I'm not sure what percentage of the protesters I can relate to. From what the media has shown very few but I doubt that it's accurate.

You understand, the left has it's crowd who believe Bush either knew about 9-11 before hand or took part in it. So I did not join that protest either.

[assmar]

This makes me miss true conservatives like Bill Buckley who knew how to distance themselves from the crazies.

Timothy McVeigh was a terrorist. Groups who regularly spread the message that one group is inferior or superior to another should be considered at least terrorist supporters, whether they're the New Black Panther Party or the National Alliance. These groups might not actually go out en mass and commit crimes, but their members carry the vitriol they picked up at Mickey Mouse club meetings when they, say, shoot indiscriminately into a Jewish Cultural Center, or maybe murder a doctor during his church services one Sunday morning. These are terrorist acts, and any other definition falls well short.

Street gangs, as cohesive and pervasive as they are in all crime within our cities, whether it's violent crime or drug related, might need to be lumped into this group as well. There is no reason any American should feel fear in their own homes, but often tiny tenement apartments feel more like prison cells to the poor, who lock themselves in each night. This isn't a race problem, it's a class problem, and I know all races creeds and religions know that same feeling of helplessness, despair, and fear.

On a plus note, Cory Booker just followed me on twitter last night. Brick City looks really good: Street Fight was fantastic.