Ultimate Spider-Man: Greatest. Comic. Ever.

[racemccloud]

I posted this on the iFanboy site proper, but I wanted to say it here, too: Ultimate Spider-Man was awesome ten years ago, and it's still awesome now. What a phenomenal run Bendis has had on this book. Twenty, thirty, forty years from now, if you look back on Bendis' career, USM will have been the crowning achievement. Guaranteed. He has the same gift all the great Spidey writers have, the same great gift JK Rowling has: you absolutely fall in love with his characters, and when they feel pain/elation/anything in between, you feel it too. His New Avengers is very well-written and a lot of fun, and Powers is stylish and was like nothing else out there when it first hit... but USM is his "heart" book. This has become the pet project. This is where the love is.

Okay, "greatest ever" is hyperbole. Agree or disagree as you like. But that's where it sits on my shelf.

[johnferrigno]

I bought this huge hardcover edition of the first 3 hardcovers of Ultimate Spider-Man all together. It was something like the first 36 issues in one volume. I flew through that book and loved every issue of it, even with the Bagley art, which I'm not a fan of. But for some reason, I never got any of the others. It's like I loved it while I was reading it, but i rarely thought about it afterwards. I think it's because it is in the Ultimate Universe, which I just never got behind. But yeah, it is pretty great, from what I read.

[thenextchampion]

I gave up on the series right when Ultimatium was taking over it. That and my anti-Bendis for a year started at that point.

But I agree that the issues before that time; 124 I believe, are really great Spider-Man stories. Bendis did a great job reworking the origin just a tad and made a more modern Spider-Man work for the new audience. I say if you read those issues and compare it to the regular ASM title (since OMD/BND) and there's no question what is the better Spider-Man title.

[humphrey-lee]

I want to reread the first hundred issues or so of it that I have, but I fell out of love with the comic around then. It just felt... superfluous I guess. Every story just became a redundancy of the ones he had told before it, and his dialogue on that book was just starting to grate on me too. I thought about coming back with Ultimate Comics, but the art style leaves me feeling indifferent, and I think reading about current, main universe Spidey is much more enjoyable. I mean, great, after a decade U. Peter Parker has to get a job he hates like every teenager has to. Cute, but not what I'm into in a Spider-Man comic anymore. When he finally makes it to college, let me know and I might pay attention again.

[racemccloud]

I gave up on the series right when Ultimatium was taking over it. That and my anti-Bendis for a year started at that point.

But I agree that the issues before that time; 124 I believe, are really great Spider-Man stories. Bendis did a great job reworking the origin just a tad and made a more modern Spider-Man work for the new audience. I say if you read those issues and compare it to the regular ASM title (since OMD/BND) and there's no question what is the better Spider-Man title.

I think Ultimatum hurt the book. Ultimatum, I guess, they thought they needed to flush out the Ultimate line, a lot of which had fallen from grace (was anyone reading Ultimate X-Men or Ultimate FF at the end? Did anyone like Ultimates 3?) Problem is, IMO, USM was the only book that needed no "do-over". If they had canceled the entire Ultimate line but kept USM, I would have been happy... which I guess is kind of what they did. So I'm happy.

[racemccloud]

I want to reread the first hundred issues or so of it that I have, but I fell out of love with the comic around then. It just felt... superfluous I guess. Every story just became a redundancy of the ones he had told before it, and his dialogue on that book was just starting to grate on me too. I thought about coming back with Ultimate Comics, but the art style leaves me feeling indifferent, and I think reading about current, main universe Spidey is much more enjoyable. I mean, great, after a decade U. Peter Parker has to get a job he hates like every teenager has to. Cute, but not what I'm into in a Spider-Man comic anymore. When he finally makes it to college, let me know and I might pay attention again.

I'm pretty sure Ultimate Peter Parker will never make it to college. I think they were so scared off by the idea of "married Spidey" (one of the main reasons they started the Ultimate line, and one of Joe Q's biggest pet peeves, clearly) that they got into this thinking that they're just better off if Peter Parker remains forever a teenager... which seems to be the way they're going. I think he might be still a HS sophomore, for goodness sake, which is where he was when the book launched. Ten years ago.

[bonemachine]

I'm sorry but I really just don't get the amount of praise this book gets. I've read the first 7 or so volumes, and while it's undoubtibly a good book, it's hardly the greatest book ever. In fact imo, it's not even the greatest book in the ultimate U (That honour goes to the ultimates pre-loeb).

Bagley's art is mediocre to crap, and Bendis' dialogue and teen speak irritates me frequently. To be honest, I don't know why everybody thinks Bendis is so hilarious. Bar one or two good jokes, most of his humour comes across as convoluted or far too smart arse-ish. His Watcher joke in secret invasion is a prime example of the type of humour I expect to come from Bendis.

That said, it's still a good book, and he does a good job making me care for the characters, even if I occasionally want to throtle them when they speak. And that annual dealing with Peter and Mary-Jane's virginity was very nicely done (although again, his dialogue in the canteen between Mary Jane and Peter made me roll my eyes a couple of times).

[humphrey-lee]

I'm sorry but I really just don't get the amount of praise this book gets. I've read the first 7 or so volumes, and while it's undoubtibly a good book, it's hardly the greatest book ever. In fact imo, it's not even the greatest book in the ultimate U (That honour goes to the ultimates pre-loeb).

Bagley's art is mediocre to crap, and Bendis' dialogue and teen speak irritates me frequently. To be honest, I don't know why everybody thinks Bendis is so hilarious. Bar one or two good jokes, most of his humour comes across as convoluted or far too smart arse-ish. His Watcher joke in secret invasion is a prime example of the type of humour I expect to come from Bendis.

That said, it's still a good book, and he does a good job making me care for the characters, even if I occasionally want to throtle them when they speak. And that annual dealing with Peter and Mary-Jane's virginity was very nicely done (although again, his dialogue in the canteen between Mary Jane and Peter made me roll my eyes a couple of times).


See, this is one of the books that I typically find to be "perfectly" rated, but it just doesn't do much for me anymore. But, it's a great run considering, and it really does get the heart of a character that has been for a long time. Thing is, except the first couple years where it "took the comics world by storm!" this hasn't been a book that has been an award gatherer, because most people would admit it's a book that's consistently good, but it's not exactly pushing the medium like stuff that is more or less Eisner worthy. Even our OP here is admitting to hyperbole. It's a great run, but I don't even have to look at my bookcase to name a dozen series and runs that have been better than it this year. Hell, it's probably Bendis' fourth outing this decade at best behind ALIAS, POWERS, and DAREDEVIL. But it still is a really good book, even if it tired me out a long time ago for the reasons I mentioned in the previous post.

[thenextchampion]

I'm sorry but I really just don't get the amount of praise this book gets. I've read the first 7 or so volumes, and while it's undoubtibly a good book, it's hardly the greatest book ever. In fact imo, it's not even the greatest book in the ultimate U (That honour goes to the ultimates pre-loeb).

Bagley's art is mediocre to crap, and Bendis' dialogue and teen speak irritates me frequently. To be honest, I don't know why everybody thinks Bendis is so hilarious. Bar one or two good jokes, most of his humour comes across as convoluted or far too smart arse-ish. His Watcher joke in secret invasion is a prime example of the type of humour I expect to come from Bendis.

That said, it's still a good book, and he does a good job making me care for the characters, even if I occasionally want to throtle them when they speak. And that annual dealing with Peter and Mary-Jane's virginity was very nicely done (although again, his dialogue in the canteen between Mary Jane and Peter made me roll my eyes a couple of times).

I think Bendis's style of witty banter (whether Parker is in costume or not) works perfectly for this series. It's how a teenager would act and as creepy as it sounds....a grown male adult knows more about how teenagers act then actual teenagers. I do agree that Bagley's art has not aged well over the years. The stuff I am seeing by him now is incredibly medicore or just down right insulting to look at. But for a time this was considered great art and it still has shades of brillance once and a while.

[bonemachine]

I think Bendis's style of witty banter (whether Parker is in costume or not) works perfectly for this series. It's how a teenager would act and as creepy as it sounds....a grown male adult knows more about how teenagers act then actual teenagers. I do agree that Bagley's art has not aged well over the years. The stuff I am seeing by him now is incredibly medicore or just down right insulting to look at. But for a time this was considered great art and it still has shades of brillance once and a while.

I'm a teen and at least a quarter of the dialogue he writes for Peter and MJ makes me cringe. Although compared to other writers he's probably masterful. For my money Garth Ennis writes the best teens, but anyway, that's off topic.

As for the actual humour. Sure it's the kinda smart arse stuff I'd expect from someone my own age. Doesn't mean I want to read it. Other people do though and that's cool.

[euchre0]

When I think about it, there are very few runs that are completely contained to the duration of that title that I can elevate over Ultimate Spider-Man. I'm not sure that previous sentence even makes sense, but what I mean is that I'd put the Lee/Ditko and most of the Lee/Romita Amazing Spider-Man issues over Ultimate Spider-Man, but that's only about 1-100, then 500 issues of up and down quality. Now, this is only natural for 600+ issues, but while USM has only been going for 135 issues or so, I'd definitely give all the issues 4 or 5 stars.

I can't bring myself to say it's the best title ever, or even one of the top 5 or 10, but when push comes to shove and I have to get rid of most of my comics (heaven forbid!) I can guarantee that Ultimate Spider-Man will be one of the keepers!

[thenextchampion]

For a while I thought this would be the perfect title for young teenagers to pick up. (Around the 13-16 year mark).

You could read the Marvel Adventures Spider-Man till your twelve. Then the Ultimate Spider-Man trades/issues till your (again) sixteen. Finally it's probably the appropriate time to get into the regular ASM series by the time you hit adult age.

Of course you could read any of those three series at any age. But if these comics are still around when I have a kid then this is how I would give it to my child.

[racemccloud]

Just to clarify, my assertion that USM is the "best comic ever" comes, as all such assertions do, comes loaded down with unique, specific, personal baggage. Meaning, I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but this is, hands down, my favorite comic for creative and personal reasons. A few points to expand on my original point (and to address some of the other points in the thread):

1.) Spidey is, and always has been, and always will be, my number-one hands-down favorite character in comics.

2.) I left comics during the ASM "Clone Saga" (as did many readers my age; I'm now 30.) I checked back in once or twice on ASM for the next few years, but found it still sucked. Then I picked up the first USM trade... and it was a thing of beauty. Remember, this was still around the time when the industry was transitioning away from the superstar artist and towards the superstar writer, when story became king. Having been away for so long, reading a story that was so well written... it was like a complete breath of fresh air. It was like, "Wow. Somebody finally figured out how to do this right." This is also why Bendis can do pretty much no wrong in my book. As far as I'm concerned, he saved comics... at least, from my personal P.O.V.

3.) I rank USM above Bendis' other big runs, and this is a matter of both bias and test. I love the joke, smart-alecky, teen-angsty feel of USM, and I think the balance between the comedy and the tragedy in the book is perfect. (I think there have been flaws along the way, but not major ones, and I'll get into that at a later date.) But, and this is a matter of taste, I put USM above "Powers", above "Daredevil", above "New Avengers"... and even above "Alias", but that one's actually kind of close (not really.) I never go back and re-read "Powers", as great as it is. I constantly go back and re-read USM.

4.) I want to expand on Euchere's point above: there's a case to be made with USM for quantity over quality, or in this case, quality-quantity over just quality. Issue by issue, "Ultimates" Vol. 1 and 2 are brilliant. USM, issue by issue, ranges (IMO) from brilliant to very good. But Ult. 1&2 are a total of, what, 26 issues? And they came out, like, once every three months? USM is at 130+ issues, and at many points in its run it seemed to come out every week (it was actually twice a month, but I'm making a point here). Being that good, that often, for that many issues... that impresses me more than even the greatness of Ult. Vol 1&2 (And UFF and UXM don't even deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as USM.)

It's like "The Office"... everyone always raves about how much better the British version was to the American... but the British version had, like, 14 episodes, while the U.S. version has close to 100. I prefer the U.S. version, because I think it's easier to be brilliant 14 times than it is to be very, very good 100 times. (Disagree away.)

5.) I think Mark Bagley's art is awesome. Seriously. And he works fast, and he tells a good story. Now, he shouldn't be on Batman... but put him on Spidey, or Flash, or Fantastic Four... books that require a lighter touch, he works on.

6.) The characters in USM don't speak like teens. But they can't. Marvel can't put out a Spidey book where the characters speak like teens, because they can't put out a MAX Spidey book, because it's Spidey. Otherwise, I think the voices of the teen characters are pretty solid... if you allow that there are going to be a handful of Bendis-isms thrown in there. The truth is, characters in fiction rarely sound "real". Dialogue is always stylized, because the way people actually speak is almost impossible to write in a way that people will want to read it. Unless you're David Mamet. Who is Bendis' favorite writer. Which explains why he does do the stammering and hemming and hawing that he does in his books... which sometimes works, and sometimes doesn't. He's doing Mamet in those moments.

So those are just some points to expand upon my initial statement. I put it this way... if I were stranded on a desert island and could only continue to read one comic, it would be "Ultimate Spider-Man", in a heartbeat.

[euchre0]

I think Mark Bagley's art is awesome. Seriously. And he works fast, and he tells a good story. Now, he shouldn't be on Batman... but put him on Spidey, or Flash, or Fantastic Four... books that require a lighter touch, he works on.
Bagley is my 5th favorite Spider-Man artist, behind Romita, Romita Jr., Ditko, and Marcos Martin. In fact, I picked up Ultimate Spider-Man #1 because Bagley was the artist and I missed his depiction of Spider-Man so much. It just happened to be my introduction to this Bendis fellow. I go back and forth on whether I like his Batman or not, but I think you are on the money with something "lighter," like the Flash. I am eager to see his JLA.

As far as Bendis work, I think I revisit his Daredevil more than USM. Now that I think about it, I dropped USM for a few issues during the Deadpool story. No particular reason comes to mind, because I know a few months later I got my act together and got back on track and haven't regretted it at all.

[racemccloud]

As far as Bendis work, I think I revisit his Daredevil more than USM. Now that I think about it, I dropped USM for a few issues during the Deadpool story. No particular reason comes to mind, because I know a few months later I got my act together and got back on track and haven't regretted it at all.

Hey, there have been missteps, and story directions I disagree with. I think he never should have killed Gwen Stacy (it seemed gratuitous), and much of "The Clone Saga" (Doc Ock controls metal! MJ becomes a big red hairy thing!) was ill-advised. Maybe Marvel should just leave clone sagas alone...

... although Ultimate Jessica Drew is a stroke of genius, and in a few short appearances, far more interesting than the "Regular U" Spider-Woman. So, a few missteps... but the goodness so far outweighs the few blemishes it's ridiculous. And there's just so much goodness...

[lantern4life]

I've been with the Ultimate U through thick and thin and Ultimate Spidey is the best one out of the bunch. Also this is Bendis's best Superhero work to date.

[deadpan]

U: SM is the first comic i ever collected religiously. I will stick through it through thick and thing even if it tries to jump the shark ala ASM. But im still here 6 years after i started.

[darkknightjrk]

From what I've read (it was a book that I mostly read from libraries), it has it's highs and lows--with a book running this long it would be hard not for that to be the case--but when it's good, it's GOOD. It and Marvel Adventures is really the only place where I can get my Spidey-fix now that Pete is an unintelligent man-child in Amazing.

[racemccloud]

Pete is an unintelligent man-child in Amazing.

This is not untrue.

And I liked "Amazing" more before JMS was forced into "One More Day".

The best 616 Spidey, at least in terms of his personality, is the one Bendis writes (ironically) in "New Avengers".