Too young for the internet?

[ojimaru]

I know I'm donkey years from being able to afford marriage and a child, but I got a little curious when this random thought bubble burst: At what age should a parent allow a child to access the internet or online gaming?

While many will point out that children mature at different rates, depending on environment and upbringing, most (responsible) parents still set a minimum age before taking their child to big dinners, parades, movies, etc. If it's their first child, the very first of such outings often lead to disaster, a telling off and some lessons learned by both the parents and the child. These reactions are not uncommon because a child's misbehaviour in public typically causes much disturbance and an immediate reaction that's perceivable by the parents, e.g. angry stares and (very loud) shushing when the kid makes a scene during the movie.

However, the internet is a whole different world, so to speak. It won't be long before the child realises the power of anonymity and misbehaves freely. While there will be an equal level of negative reactions, none of it would reach the parents, hence not soliciting any response from them. Sure, parents nowadays have the tools to monitor their children's internet activity. But that's just like going through an XML log file trying to spot errors before they manifest!

Are our future generations doomed to become noobs and troll? Or is there a way to fix it?

[blacksymbiote]

Future generations? I think we have several generations to contend with already.

[miyazakihayao]

Monitored use until age 13, give them their own computer after that. Maybe use parental control depending on the child. My children have always been well behaved, and I trust them to not be stupid on the internet.

[tsmith15]

Yeah, when I have kids I'm going to attempt to introduce them to the internet when they're movie-watching age by browsing as a duo, so I can pick what he/she watches/listens to. If they show me they're trustworthy and responsible children in other areas then unsupervised access is something they can earn. That said, having grown up with the internet, I'm going to keep a hawk eye on what they browse.

[tokenuser]

Technology is changing too fast for anyone to speculate on the what-ifs.
Unless you are dealing with children here and now it will pretty much be a moot point.

School age seems appropriate for supervised computer time ... as a reasearch tool with parental controls/monitoring turned on.

Gaming - limited ... just like TV should be.

[anakinastronaut]

I have been using the internet since I was a little kid. Mostly kid sites like Nickelodeon and Disney. I have been allowed to "surf" for years now. I got my own computer a couple of years ago and I have been allowed to post on the forums here along with several other sites, but those are more gaming sites.
I got my own twitter account at the beginning of the year and my own Facebook page today.

There are plenty of adults that I have to help use the internet. My mom taught a class at work for intro to computers and I talked about kids and safety on the internet. It was weird. I know more than they did.

My mom says she doesn't bother with parental blocks because she knows I will just figure out how to hack them and that this way she can trace what it is I am doing instead of me going somewhere else to do stuff. But my parents aren't like my friends parents. My dad has it so at his house he can turn on what is on my computer's screen onto the tv in the living room. At my mom's house she can take control of the computer from her laptop. So I know better than to do something stupid.

For the most part its more parents being noobs than kids. And that is how its always going to be. I just hope I can be more on top of it like my parents than my friend's parents. My mom has had to talk to some of my friends about things and pictures they posted (they like to friend her on Facebook and stuff) because they don't even have their stuff set to private.

And as for trolls, my mom always says that trolls are lonely sexually frustrated men who feel the need to lash out because they can't get a woman to touch them without having to pay for it.

My mom is awesome.

[wideawakewesley]

And as for trolls, my mom always says that trolls are lonely sexually frustrated men who feel the need to lash out because they can't get a woman to touch them without having to pay for it.

My mom is awesome.

Geek parents FTW!

And yes, your mom is awesome.

:)

[masherscf]

I know I'm donkey years from being able to afford marriage and a child, but I got a little curious when this random thought bubble burst: At what age should a parent allow a child to access the internet or online gaming?

I've been married for 12-years and been a dad for 5-years. I'll let you know when I can afford it.

Children do mature at different rates, there is no standard age for anything. There are development milestones that your child should reach at certain ages to be considered "typical." For example, my daughter is delayed at speech and conversation but ahead on Math, problem solving and reasoning. She's too young for the internet, but the internet would not be engaging enough for her. She enjoys playing outside, video games, or drawing much more.

[satori]

My mom says she doesn't bother with parental blocks because she knows I will just figure out how to hack them and that this way she can trace what it is I am doing instead of me going somewhere else to do stuff. But my parents aren't like my friends parents. My dad has it so at his house he can turn on what is on my computer's screen onto the tv in the living room. At my mom's house she can take control of the computer from her laptop. So I know better than to do something stupid.

I'm just wondering how your mom achieved this, what applications did she use? I ask because I'm pretty much of the opinion that my son is going to be entirely removed from the internet. I work for a Telecom provider here in Canada and feel fairly savy with tools that I know about, but I'm fine with admitting that I don't know of all the tools that could be used to achieve what you guys are doing. There was an earlier comment that kids should be given their own PCs at 13... right now that's not going to happen. If there honestly is some way of doing this that makes me comfortable I'd reconsider.

[masterevilace]

If your child wants to really get into technology and computer related things later in life, definitely sooner than later.

I started when I was ... maybe 10? Didn't know what I was doing until 12.. everything from there started clicking, and now I'm pretty much the tech guy (at 22). I've had pretty much unmonitored access throughout. The only thing your kid is probably going to have issues with is viruses. But all of that will be a learning experience none the less.

[satori]

If your child wants to really get into technology and computer related things later in life, definitely sooner than later.

I started when I was ... maybe 10? Didn't know what I was doing until 12.. everything from there started clicking, and now I'm pretty much the tech guy (at 22). I've had pretty much unmonitored access throughout. The only thing your kid is probably going to have issues with is viruses. But all of that will be a learning experience none the less.
hang on a moment, I've been using computers and technology since I was 6... which was in 1974. I used to play games on the mainframe at my mom's work, and have had access to computers ever since. I agree that kids should have access to computers and technology to learn, but I'm not convinced that the negative aspects of the internet out weigh the positive aspects of it for someone under 13. Even at 13 I'll be damned if a PC will be going in my son's room. I'm not clear if I'm ok with a computer not connected to the Internet. If it were in a shared area that I can monitor at any time I might be ok with it connecting to the Internet with specific rules. I want to give my son freedom, but there is that old saying about giving someone enough rope...

[hellhound]

seems to me that the main problem with access to the internet is the availability of porn. I dont have kids (I spent alotta $ to avoid that).

Seems to me... that if a kid accesses a nudism or porn site b4 he/she is sexually aware... then the images wont mean much, but if ARE becoming sexually aware... then its time for a parent/child chat about the birds and the bees.

I'm abit jealous of the kids these days... I used to have to shoplift my dirty magazines and risk legal issues. Kids today can explore sexuality without the idea that nudity/sexuality is wrong and a criminal offense (well sorta... can still be busted lying about age on an "adult" site .. but how often does that happen?

I guess it depends on UR religious views... either nudity and sex is bad and only to be used to make a baby... or not and you will talk with the kid... (I dont want this to become a religion debate)

[satori]

seems to me that the main problem with access to the internet is the availability of porn. I dont have kids (I spent alotta $ to avoid that).

Seems to me... that if a kid accesses a nudism or porn site b4 he/she is sexually aware... then the images wont mean much, but if ARE becoming sexually aware... then its time for a parent/child chat about the birds and the bees.

I'm abit jealous of the kids these days... I used to have to shoplift my dirty magazines and risk legal issues. Kids today can explore sexuality without the idea that nudity/sexuality is wrong and a criminal offense (well sorta... can still be busted lying about age on an "adult" site .. but how often does that happen?

I guess it depends on UR religious views... either nudity and sex is bad and only to be used to make a baby... or not and you will talk with the kid... (I dont want this to become a religion debate)

While porn is certainly a concern it's not my only concern. Also there's far worse out there in terms of porn than simple nudity. I have zero issue with nudity for art's sake, or if it's in a normal context. What I do have concern with on the nudity side is the current porn view of body image. I don't think it gives a realistic view of what people really look like naked. The actual act of sex isn't something he needs to find out via porn.

The real concern for me is hate literature and to some extent sexual predators. There is far too much bullshit out there to wade through.

[stubadub]

My son is 4 and he already has a computer designated as his. We keep it next to the living room in his play area, and we let him occasionally play games on websites like the Disney Channel while we sit with him. Whenever he has a question that I don't have a good immediate answer for (and sometimes even when I do) we head over and look it up online to find the answer and any associated pictures.

I plan to continue to allow him to access the internet, but his computer will likely stay in the public areas of our house until his teenage years at the earliest. At some point I'll have to weigh my need to protect my son against his right to privacy, but I'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

[absolutemayhem]

First off, I work in IT, so my office is full of computers and laptops. My daughter got her first laptop around 10 or so and she was only able to use it in my office. I removed the battery and disabled wireless and used a LAN wire connection. She is now 13 and she usually has it on in the living room or often in her room wirelessly. I check her internet history occasionally, but we have had countless discussions regarding the internet and my clear expectations that she is not allowed to watch any mature content that she would not watch with my family in the living room. She has MSN, email and facebook. As do 80% of the kids she goes to school with. I was say she is a moderate computer user, her dad being such a nerd, its likely a put off if anything towards technology. She is very much a girly-girl type.

With my daughter, honestly most of the issue we had were around the first few months she was allowed to be on facebook about a year now. A lot of learning around the does and don'ts and even defining what my wife and I consider bad or inappropriate actions for a girl of her age. Most of it was with regards to comments and pictures she "thought" were sweet and innocent. It was awkward explaining some of it but communication is definitely key here. If you do not let your kids know what you thing are the boundaries its hard to give them trouble. Do not be afraid to have multiple discussions, because new topics will come up.

My son is now seven and most of his surfing is via internet bookmarks to kid sites and he is ONLY allowed on 1 specific computer in the office, which happens to be my wife's gaming rig. I would say that the majority of his activities are watching cartoons from Y-TV or the cartoon network, some gaming but he has access to every single console made, so kids sites and gaming dont really stimulate his interest, he'd rather play lego batman or sonic on the PS3 or 360.

Honestly with Matt we have not had that much talk about the internet, mostly I think because he hears the conversations with his older sister, but as his spelling/typing and reading increase I expect to have further conversations.

Being in IT and security as well, I would like to point out that it is very serious for sexual predators for both boys and girls, don't just focus on the girls. In General, I think the discussion between kids and the internet should be as equivalent to letting your kids go outside and play, basic same rules apply. Don't talk to strangers, dont give out personal information, never tell someone you are home alone.

Another growing trend is internet bullying. If you don't know what I am talking about you really should do some research on it. :)

Just some last comments, both my kids are what I consider normal active kids and they never really get into any mischief, so I don't feel the need to use netnanny products or snooping products. Having said that if when Matt is say 10 or 11 and I feel the need to more closely monitor his computer use, I would have no problems installing tools to do what I feel would protect him. I believe in safety before privacy. And my wife and I both agree. I would never read the contents of my daughter's emails or secretly log her msn. If she abused it or we had suspicions regarding bad behavior I would speak with her. Its a hard call, but if my wife and I felt justified we would likely turn on msn chat logging and inform her that we are doing so. If there were issues with emails, I would have her show me her content with both me and my wife there.

Hope this helps, just posting my 2cents.

-MayheM

[wideawakewesley]

Access to porn on the net in the UK is having a major impact on teenagers perceptions about sex and their bodies. One of the TV channels over here did a two part program on it and the results were quite shocking. Suffice to say I've kept a copy to show my son when he's older.

There is no chance in hell that he or my (soon to be born) daughter are having a network enabled device in their bedroom until they're at least 13 and there'll be plenty of chats about it I'm sure. tbh I'm less concerned about PCs now than I am about future mobile devices. My son is 3yrs old and the world has iPhones now. God knows what'll be available in 10yrs time!

[ariastar]

...most (responsible) parents still set a minimum age before taking their child to big dinners, parades, movies, etc.

This coming from someone who admits to being several years away from readiness for being married and having a child is offensive. Age is an arbitrary number in the end which sometimes is a necessary thing, but when it comes to parenting and deciding when to take children to certain events, there is absolutely nothing irresponsible about taking into account a child's maturity level rather than holding hard and fast to some number. My parents did a pretty damned good job raising me, and they didn't go by any "child must be X years before she can do Y." No two children, even in the same household, will develop at the exact same rate. So why is it a sign of responsible parenting, in your opinion, to have a minimum age, even if a child is clearly ready to do something earlier?

We do not have any ages set for our baby's life. We're going to take things as they come and make decisions based on what she's proven herself capable of handling, or shown she's ready to try something. Being that this is the age of the internet and it would likely hold her back more than help to deny all access to the internet, she will have age-appropriate (though I really prefer "appropriate for her development level") exposure to it.

It's not quite realistic to expect a child to be shielded from everything in this world that may be detrimental, and that includes online porn that can indeed negatively impact self esteem. But a child needs to learn to handle the negatives as well as the positives. Now I'm now saying that anyone should run out and show a child porn. But keeping open dialog is extremely important. Thanks to the open dialog between me and my parents, when I wanted the pill, I went to them and asked. With the wealth of information and exposure these days that make the late 90's look absolutely primitive in comparison, it's even more important to keep communication open, and to not expect to hold to absolute ages. As much as we'd all like to think our kids will wait to do certain things and won't ask for certain things until X age, etc., it's not likely to happen as we want it to. Flexibility is important.

[masherscf]

I started programming the age of 13. My dad got me lessons in FORTRAN 77. But, that was 1981 and there was no internet available. programming was about all your could do. I haven't written more than a basic script in 16-years.

[tsmith15]

My parents never watched over my internet use and I didn't end up too screwed up. I even found porn online and I don't think it adversely affected me. I learned about my body, and the body of others as much or more from the internet than from school or my parents (who never had any talks about anything serious in relation to life with me) and I learned about all sorts of other issues and such online. Unless your kid is stupid or had some sort of terrible moral upbringing in their each life, I think they should be able to mentally deal with anything deviant they might find online.

That said, the internet is different now than it was 5-6 years ago, and will get increasingly more bizarre and inappropriate, and that I don't have kids and am nowhere near the maturity level "required" to raise kids.

[satori]

My son is 3yrs old and the world has iPhones now. God knows what'll be available in 10yrs time!

agreed, I am entirely afraid for my son about the coming wave of robo-cooters

[diane]

Okay, out of curiosity, how many people who have posted about internet and children actually have children old enough to use the internet on their own? And no, I don't mean pound the keys and get a website or be placed at a specific website to play a game but if they accidentally clicked on an ad or anything they would be able to resolve the issue without hollering for mom and dad?

Please understand I am not knocking those without kids and their opinions but basing on your own experiences in this realm is pretty much underestimating how much it is involved in kids lives in comparison to even 5 years ago, much less in my case 20 years ago.

I am damn lucky. I have had kids of all ages in my life since I was that age. I am the oldest of 4 siblings and a butt load of cousins with the youngest being 16. Couple that with my son who is 11, who has friends that range between 12-14 (he was grade skipped so his friends are a bit older). Then add in friend's kids and nieces and nephews courtesy of the ex-inlaws who I am still close too (the oldest sibling is 23 so it better be a while before they pop any out) and I can honestly say I have had the unique ability to truly watch as childhood has changed up close and personal.

First, the kid had to do a biography in 2nd grade that had to site 2 internet sources. We have had websites recommended for him sent home from pre-school on. Right now he is in the office, researching Neil Patrick Harris while while looking up who Bob Ross is because of a picture Dan tweeted and watching Dr Horrible and messaging through Facebook. He is 11. And he is completely normal for his age. In fact I don't know any of his friends who not only don't have a cell but have text, email, at least one Social Networking page, etc. I built a forums off of my blog so they can talk to each about homework and stuff because I got tired of his phone beeping every other second due to a text. Heck, his books are all electronic on his laptop and he goes to a public school.

Too late, internet is part of their lives and it starts damn young. If you want to prevent it, then homeschool and good luck.

Now, you can take the alarmist view or you can just roll with it. Yes there is porn, in fact I had an interesting incident concerning that while putting away clothes concerning printed material. I handed that off to his dad and told him to discuss with his son the concept of better hiding spots and not using my computer and printer to do such things.

I can talk to any of my male cousins (not my brother, I don't even want to think about that and my baby brother) and they all did the same thing. And for guys my age it was finding Dad's stash or a friend's older brother getting it for them. If you are waiting until they have started puberty to talk about sex, well guess what, you are too late. I busted a bunch of 4th grade girls giggling looking at an anatomy book at the library.

The kid has been getting the sex talk in small doses since he first asked why his Aunt A was fat (little M is now 6). Porn is part of growing up, its naughty, dirty and forbidden, everything a kid wants. Just try and make sex something healthy and set realistic terms for it and it won't be so tantalizing. And for the love of pete if they ask a question, stay calm and just answer it. Its better they hear the truth from you instead of the crap they are going to hear at school and yes, they will hear it.

The important thing about the internet is that like everything else involved with being a parent, be involved. Go to the websites they like and sign up for an account. And yes, age restrictions are important. They are not arbitrary. There is a HUGE difference between a 9 year old and a 12 year. HUGE. Heck there can be a huge difference between a young 10 year old and a 10 year old the verge of 11. No, not every kid is the same, but they are surprisingly alike. The main difference I have found is more to do with how they are raised. If they were more sheltered, they need more sheltering than one that might be exposed to more. That said if you say the words snot, abreast or half-cocked there is not a 10 year old alive that won't giggle.

And to answer what products we use, we have a splitter that allows the tv to become a second monitor for his computer that dual displays. That allows for surprise checks of what he is doing. It is a great way to ensure he is actually doing his homework. Then as for remote access its kinds like GoToMyPC and GoToAssist. Mine is from a company a friend uses at work. My Aunt uses a key logger on my cousins computers with a program she tossed together to analyze for strings of letters that might be an issue. And most importantly, his email uses my email as its default so if he changes a password and I am not aware. I have all his passwords for all social networking sites along with following him. Other sites, such as Pokemon, I am on their email lists so I am aware of new enhancements. And of course, I check the history on the web browser at least once a week and check when the last delete was to make sure. That is how I knew he posted here.

Okay, this is now ridiculously long but this is a topic that I can't help but feel a little biased about. I have a kid who is comfortable on both PCs and Macs, can put together presentations better than my coworkers and is learning Linux with the help of really cool people he met through this very website years ago. Heck, I wonder what kind of role models he would have if it wasn't for the internet. Jeff, Dan and Alex, not to mention Kevin, Patrick and now Linus would never have had such the huge impact on his life if I didn't let him start using the internet way back when he wanted to go look at Yoshi's Mods of computer cases from Screen Savers so many years ago.

By the way, guess who is going to help a friend of mine hook up his modem and show his 7 year old daughter how to use her new iPod nano this weekend including how to find podcasts on iTunes and show her daddy how to oversee it. I plan on just drinking coffee while I am there. Yeah, I am a little biased.

[diane]

My son is 3yrs old and the world has iPhones now. God knows what'll be available in 10yrs time!

Jet Packs! Jet Packs!

Or at least Kit from KnightRider. I would love to be able to get work done while my car just drove me to work. Talk about multitasking.

[ojimaru]

Wow. Just wow. I knew the TRS forum was filled with Totally Rad people, but... wow. Thanks for all the insights!

Thinking about it, porn was never on the top of my list of concerns. Adolescent kids will get to it one way or another, and as pointed out, the best way to deal with that is to talk to them about it. Furthermore, ventures into porn sites and similar mature content are relatively easy to track.

But what I'm trying to stop is them becoming the total douchebags we see all over. It's much harder to catch, especially when you don't want to give them a fair level of privacy. I suppose the way around this is to lead as a good example while pointing out the bad apples as I go along (sounds a little too conceited...) but is that really enough? The anonymity of the internet is just such a vile temptation.

[wideawakewesley]

Things that bother me about internet access for children:

Cyber-bullying - mental abuse via text, images, video, blackmail and coersion

Porn - ease of access, quantity available, type available, effect on body image and ideas about sexual relationships

Other adult material - videos of extreme violence and death

Privacy - leak of personal information, images, videos

Exposure - the record of your child's public interactions online, twitter, blogs, forums, comments etc.

I think everyone agrees the best way to raise a child is not to lock them in the closet. Allow them to play outside, but always maintain a good line of communication with them so they'll always feel they can talk to you and are always aware of the dangers they face in life. However, many of us didn't grow up in this world. I didn't get internet access until I went to Uni and while I'm may be a geek and think I know my sh*t, how to advise on situations I never encountered before is going to prove difficult I'm sure.

It seems to me that the internet gives children way too much freedom. Opening their eyes to things in life that they could never have experienced at such a young age before. We have movie and videogame ratings for a reason, but there's nothing like that on the net and I have to admit I wish there were. It can be tough being a parent and it'd be nice if there were at least some kind of legislative protection for our children to help support parents. The key word there being support, not replace.

[siraim]

I couldn't agree more with Diane. The world has changed and in my opinion for the better, if you're careful. Parenting today is no more difficult today, IMHO, than it was 30 years ago when I was a kid. Kids these days can be far more accessible than we were as kids. This can, and should, be a good thing.

What I think is important in this is that a parent be involved and be present. If your kids become interested in social networking sites, fine. Establish rules. Join the site yourself to keep tabs. Be involved.

I'd say my 14 year old niece is more connected than I was at 14, but that isn't technically true. When I was a kid, I was as connected as I could be at the time. BBS time, Compuserve, prodigy.. I found ways to reach out and find all the ASCII art (porn) I could find.

Caitlin, the 4 yr old in the house, is disturbingly ahead of her time. When she was three, we'd have to put our phones into airplane mode or she'd switch to the phone app and call people. Eventually, she figured out how to turn off airplane mode without any help. Now, she has an old iPhone without a SIM card. It frustrates her to no end that she can't make calls, sends texts. She's 5! She knows her crippled iPhone can connect to wifi and if she can't get her weather, she used to sheepishly come over to tell me that it wasn't working. I would take the phone, hide the screen and turn on wifi for her. Now? She figured out how to turn wifi on and off on her own.

Rules are important. Being present is important. Keeping up with the technology is crucial. I think as geeks, we have an advantage. We like to tinker and figure out why things are as they are. We're more likely to quitely put in a web proxy that tracks access. We're more likely to monitor cell phone usage more carefully. We're more likely to manage access to things at home. Hopefully, we're also more likely to.. what's that word? um.. talk to our kids.

I find out more from having dinner as a family at night than I do when combing a web browser history log. I've got no intention of denying access to the internet or media from the 4 year old just because. If something comes up I don't like, I'm not going to surreptitiously punish the kid. i'll talk to them.

The biggest problem with the turtle theory of parenting is that you can't control what your kids do when they walk out of your house. So talk to them when you can. Teach them about good/bad choices. Don't let them shy away from difficult decisions and teach them that the ramifications of a bad choice are real.

[diane]

Wes, I understand the points and I they scare me too. Hell, I am a single mom trying to raise a boy in a world that is very different from the one I grew up in so many ways. But some of these things aren’t not that much of an issue to me as it appears for you.

Violence, not an issue. I don’t accidentally stumble on violent imagery on the internet, and I am one of those people who googles everything. It takes effort to find gory things to me. And in all honesty, in compared to the evening news, SAW VI commercials with bloody beaten people tied to a child’s playground equipment playing a demented game of Russian roulette (which honestly, how can that game get any more demented, right?) or the lovely billboard of a girl with torn clothing, tied to a chair and gagged, smeared with dirt and blood, crying with a look of pleading in her eyes as she looks out, right there, on the side of the highway on the way to the mall, Target and the zoo, internet is not a place I am too concerned with violence.

Now granted, you might have different rules across the pond and therefore you aren’t graced with the daily inundation of violent imagery we get here. Frankly, I hope that is the case. Which then, yes it might be a higher priority for me, but living in the states, I have bigger fish to fry.


The biggest fear for me is the privacy/exposure issue. To me they go hand in hand. I see kids everyday posting things that I can’t help but feel will come back to haunt them in a background check for a job. We all make mistakes its just at the time we might not always realize until years later. Heck, I use to tell my mom I was sleeping over a friend’s and then use a fake id when I was 15/16 to get into bars at the Flats. I don’t even want to imagine if pics of those nights were posted.

And yet, this is exactly what is being done. Here I just walk the kid through scenarios and point out really bad decisions others have made and hopes that some of it sinks in. I also take comfort that is frankly a generational thing. If they are all doing it, its hard to necessarily hold each other to higher standards than they hold themselves. Well, at least I hope so. I also hope that as the kid is more savvy than I am, his baby cousins will be more savvy than him and so on. With more freedom comes more responsibility. But how many 21 yr olds learn their limit before they have that one morning after with a brutal hang over? With the changes in technology we are simply watching the drunken debauchery of a 21st birthday party. So until they serve Jaugermiester or Tequila, its going to be a rough to watch.

The other stuff are not as important in some aspects for me, but this is already too long…again.

[wideawakewesley]

I'd like people's opinions on this:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/caitlin_moran/article5483397.ece

1. Your opinions on having access to this material. Good, bad, etc.
2. Your opinions on children being able to see material like this.
3. How you would handle a situation where your child did see something like this.

[thebigl]

I'm sure how important my views would be to you, Wes, but i'll give it a go anyway. For the record, I'm 20 years old, living in Lancashire, England, and am very liberal/left.

1. If i was define it as good or bad, I would say it is closer to being good than bad. Obviously, and it almost goes without saying, but the fact people murder other people is horrible, for their victims, and for the murderers themselves, that somehow through biological, sociological or through crimes of passion, have commited this act. But seeing it via the internet, i would heavily argue, will not affect how many or how few murders are committed.

The people, including teenagers, children, etc, that would be 'spurred on' or 'inspired' by watching such a video, have serious problems anyway, ones that have a good chance of being noticed by parents, teachers, friends etc.

And those (the majority, obviously) who go unaffected, or are sickened by it, will leave the experience feeling either MORE against murder, or totally the same.

2. I think it varies wildly on how good the parenting is, and how established a child's moral code is. I would not argue that a child that has bad parents who have not really taught the child the rights and wrongs, and the child hasnt picked it up from other mediums (schooling, friends, tv, movies, podcasts, WHATEVER really), they could be influenced by it.

It has certainly been proven in psychological studies, that young children, specifically boys, will act more violent if they see adults acting violently.

3. Talk it through with them, gauge their reaction, and fill in the blanks e.g. ask them what they though, tell them it would be considered a wrong thing to do (if they don't already say that), ask them if they can work out why its wrong, and if they can't answer, tell them. 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you' <-- explain that.


That is probably a bit of a mess, but I had a go. I've been using the internet since i was probably 7 or 8, and am now 20. I used to hang out with the wrong crowd when i was young, but after an encounter with the police, at the age of 10 or 11, i totally switched my group of friends, and went from going out all the time, to staying in on my computer all the time.

The internet, and computers, got me through years of adolescent depression and bullying at school, and crafted me into a decent liberal person. It filled in the gaps where my parents didn't, or couldn't, and without the websites, podcasts, online games to get me through some less than good times, I'm not sure what sort of person i would be.

Giving kids access to a bank of knowlege that strains to equal their creativity and hunger for learning will always be more positive than withholding it from them.

[wideawakewesley]

Giving kids access to a bank of knowlege that strains to equal their creativity and hunger for learning will always be more positive than withholding it from them.

I'm not sure about that. I think it's important for parents to withold information from children until they deem them mature or responsible enough to be able to handle it. Obviously best laid plans are often ruined by outside influences, but many people (let alone children) would likely have gone through whole lives without seeing material, such as that described in the article, prior to the internet's profileration. I think that lack of exposure was a good thing.

[tokenuser]

Preteen? That content wold be bad. There are too many "mature" concepts involved to be able to have a conversation with a child about it.
Teenaged? No big deal. They start to become desensitised to violence by that age and probably equate it more with a horror movie. At that point you can discuss what happened more, and not just in terms of good vs bad (or evil if religion comes into play).

Again, its a maturity thing.

I think that in the US kids see worse as bad/worse on TV on a daily basis, so the video wouldn't raise the same sort of ire in parents. I can't understand US media - violence is OK on prime time TV, but heaven forbid there is the hint of cleavage (unless it is for comedic effect). Violence is OK, but sexuality is out.

That becomes part of the "too young for the internet" issue as well - social norms in different countries.

[ojimaru]

It was disturbing enough to read that article, let alone actually seeing the video. Frankly, though, material as described in the article can't be hidden behind an age gate. It's not even a question of maturity. Rather it's up to a person's personal moral standards to understand that such actions are just plain and simply wrong.

Dealing with a kid watching the video would really depend on his/her reaction to it. Some will be thinking it to be just a bad indie film, others traumatised, and there are also those who enjoy it. Each situation warrants an appropriate reaction, although the absolute best you can do, in terms of damage control, is to talk to them about it.

[diane]

Well, the fact that anyone would think putting that out on a chat is stunning, but I am not that surprised.

The kid at 3 saw people jumping from the towers.

The kid at 5 watched as my Grandmother took her last breath after we had removed the feeding tube from her broken body.

The kid at 7 saw bodies floating in New Orleans.

The kid has seen a lion rip a guy's arm off, a woman give birth and recently saw the burned body of my cousin right before he died.

Just today he asked me if I knew what waterboarding was and that we did it and that it was wrong.

I didn't plan on him seeing any of it. The closest thing would have been my Grandma since we knew she was dying. The rest was accidental at best with the lion and birth because a friend showed him.

What is sad is I have seen worse than that video. I worked for a company that trains Law Enforcement at all levels in things ranging from Interview and Interrogation to Homicide. I have read the Jeffrey Dalhmer interview transcripts. I didn't sleep for a week and I still can't add salt to my food.

Yes, if I had my way he would never see any of this, or anything close to this. But I can't. Everyday I see disgusting things human beings do to each other or things that they do in the name of entertainment (can someone please explain the purpose of the rape scene in Hills Have Eyes?). I have sheltered my son so much in comparison to other parents that he hasn't seen any of the Alien vs Predator movies and everyone of his friends have.

I am not concerned with my son seeing that video, I know him, he would turn it off and run to me, which in all honesty is probably better than I would have done at his age since I had been seeing Faces of Death videos at slumber parties where we all thought those were real.

I wish I was more shocked, but snuff films have been around since video was invented. But in the years that the kid has been on the internet, which has been roughly 5-6 years he hasn't ever come across anything close to that, and he googles everything and everyone. I just tried to find the video googling "man totured to death Ukraine" and the closest I got was a forums listing on a website that states "The Real Faces of Death". So unless you are allowing your kids on a chat that you don't know the people on or they are purposely searching out f*cked up videos of this sort of thing, I am not too concerned.

[dulica]

I teach preschool..and it's amazing that 3 year olds can work a computer! I know that I'd want to monitor all computer and internet use until 13 or so, and then like others have said, if I can trust my child, let them go with some simple parent controls....if I can't trust them it would all be run past me!
I didn't have an email until junior year of highschool! I know a 3 year old with a facebook page! it's crazy!

[wideawakewesley]

My 3yr old son recently mastered the trackpad on my laptop. I was so proud and scared at the same time ;)

[diane]

You want to see something scary? www.hellhousemovie.com

Its a haunted house put on by a church that re-inacts the Columbine Shootings with teeneagers in order to try and scare people to get straight with God. And that is just one thing they act out in the haunted house.

[siraim]

I freely admit that I don't watch scary movies and I'm not a fan of watching video clips of people getting injured or dismembered. I live perfectly happy knowing that I don't have a clue what people are talking about when they chat about SAW 1 through 421, the Exorcist or any of the freddy/jason movies. They're not my cup of tea. I saw The Shining when I was 7 and that was enough.

<back on topic>

Access to the internet by young people is a privilege and it should be monitored as best you can. The only hope you have is to spend as much time teaching kids how to react/respond to situations so that you know they're prepared when they see/hear/feel something that is offputting. I can't be there every moment of the day physically, but I can hope that I influence the little voice in the back of their heads.