Ipad vs linux.

[computoman]

Interesting article.
http://blogs.computerworld.com/15487/anything_the_ipad_can_do_linux_can_do_better

[tokenuser]

I can't see ANYTHING in that article that talks about things that Linux can do better ... all it does is summarize the future playing field of the technology.

Media pundits are I think missing the point of this segment of the market - they "tablet" type machines are not supposed to be desktop/laptop replacements (ignoring "netbooks" - who are really just an excuse for an underpowered laptop), they are intended as peripheral devices. That is, a device that is designed to work with your desktop/laptop machine, and not replace it.

Love them or hate them, but I suspect that Apple will define the tablet market. They weren't the first to bring us an MP3 player, or a SmartPhone, but they defined those markets as well. There are plenty of other capable products out there, but when was the last time you heard someone refer to a product as a n "Archos Killer" or an "OpenMoko Killer"? Apple define the market - and everyone else will be playing catchup.

BTW - The current crop of upcoming tablets seem to be based on either the Intel Atom processor, or an ARM Cortex A8 based processor (like the Tegra and Tegra 2 chips). People seem to forget that this tablet is also powered by an ARM based processor - the Cortex A9 and its a generation ahead of the A8. Other companies wont be getting A9 based procs until much later in the year, but it does oen up a possibility of a "Jailbroken" iPad running Linux in the future. That could be a nice device too.

[guytheninja]

I can understand why smart phones are so wildly popular now. You have a computer that you can fit in your pocket. However, I just don't see how the Ipad is better than either a laptop or netbook. IDK, maybe I just need the feel of a keyboard.

Oh yea, if I ever "get" the Ipad and other tablet computers. I'll still go for one on the Verizon network (which will most likely be Linux based).

[tokenuser]

Interesting article from the DigiTimes (http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20100129PD217.html) regarding the new crop of upcoming iPad competitors ...

Notebook vendors include Asustek Computer and Micro-Star International (MSI) ... originally planned to offer prices pegged at 20-30% lower than the Apple iPad, while they generally expected the device to cost as much as US$1,000. The US$499 entry-level price has caught vendors by surprise and ... starting a price war at below US$499 raises concerns that any profitably will be driven out of the nascent tablet PC market, before it even has a chance to take off.

Since the device linked above was a reference platform, I wonder what the actual street price would be for a production unit ... and if indeed it would even happen now.

[darknessgp]

Interesting article.
http://blogs.computerworld.com/15487/anything_the_ipad_can_do_linux_can_do_better

yea, it was mildly interesting in that we got someone's opinion about what he thinks will now happen... Glad you posted the link, wish you would have provided some real thoughts of your own to actually discuss, but perhaps that is asking too much from you...

As for the iPad and competitors. I hope it pushes innovation in REAL tablets, I hope that it does NOT define the tablet market. I think Apple missed the mark at creating a really great product and only created a half-way decent one.

[bobv13]

I can understand why smart phones are so wildly popular now. You have a computer that you can fit in your pocket. However, I just don't see how the Ipad is better than either a laptop or netbook. IDK, maybe I just need the feel of a keyboard.

Oh yea, if I ever "get" the Ipad and other tablet computers. I'll still go for one on the Verizon network (which will most likely be Linux based).

I'm with you. I see the Ipad as a notebook/netbook/smartbook but just in a new form. It does now compare with a smart phone/Iphone which I can effortlessly have with me at all times in my pocket.

[computoman]

I wish Apple well with the ipad (aka (emperors new toy). I am sure they have enough fanboys that it will. To really use the pad effectively, you will be spending close to a grand for all the bells and whistles. For some reason Apple is anti-freedom which is completely reverse what Apple made their bones with. Even Steve "The Woz" Wozniak is dismayed by Apple's prevailing attitude. If can not not mod it, you do not own it.I have re-purposed quite a bit of old hardware with linux that a locked down device has no appeal to me. If I can not mod it, I do not purchase it. Computing is changing too fast to have a locked down device that will quickly be worthless. In fact we ran Apple g3's with linux for quite a spell. Saved us a bit of money to delay getting new replacement hardware. For all intents and purposes you are renting Apple equipment and not owning it. My brother has an iphone and an ipod touch for his daughter. I had toyed with the idea of getting an ipod touch to do development, but so far have passed on it. My first computer experience was using punch cards,when monitors were not even being used yet. I am not afraid of typing and still do a lot in the command line environment. A touchy feely computer does not really excite me. To me it is more of a limitation. Though, I do like to be just a mouse jocky sometimes. A laptop is just fine for me. The Ipad, Who cares.....

For the first time years have I seen so much anti Apple media coverage. People finally have a clue about the emperor's new clothes. When and if Macjicjack comes out with their new device,, things will get really interesting. Especially for the people who paid a premium for the ereaders, For sure it will upset a lot of cell phone carriers. Maybe that is why the Ipad has no usb ports........ and Apple has allegedly stopped support for usb devices on it's other equipment. Even in the publishing world you are seeing more and more removal of drm from their products. Microsoft and Apple just have not seen the light yet. Apple is like a possessive boyfriend and eventually Apple fans dependency will wane at least to a degree.

[tokenuser]

I wish Apple well with the ipad (aka (emperors new toy). I am sure they have enough fanboys that it will. To really use the pad effectively, you will be spending close to a grand for all the bells and whistles.Really?? Close to a grand?

WiFi 802.11n only version 16GB, 32GB and 64GB: $499, $599 and $699.
WiFi + 3G +aGPS: $629, $729 and $829.

But, but, but ... what about the 3G data plan? $14.99/month - 250MB of data
$29.99/month - Unlimited data, plus free access at any AT&T hotspot. But including that cost in any comparison is a furphy - because you would be up for it regardless of the hardware platform selected if you want 3G capabilities.

For some reason Apple is anti-freedom which is completely reverse what Apple made their bones with.Anti-freedom? Apple have always been a closed, proprietary platform.

Even Steve "The Woz" Wozniak is dismayed by Apple's prevailing attitude.He is entitled t his opinion ... but he left Apple a long time ago.

If can not not mod it, you do not own it.I have re-purposed quite a bit of old hardware with linux that a locked down device has no appeal to me. If I can not mod it, I do not purchase it. Good for you. Congratulations. Want a cookie?

Computing is changing too fast to have a locked down device that will quickly be worthless.Computer hardware is rapidly becoming a commodity appliance that is designed for obsolescence. But that is true of consumer electronics in general. I guess unless someone buys it, then discards it, you'll never get to use/reuse it.

How are your VCR tapes holding out? I have a number of PAL format tapes here I couldn't part with ... don't you want to upgrade it to DVD or Bluray?
That state-of-the-art Sony FDD based digital camera? Why can't it be upgraded to have more that 2MP ... and a hard drive ... and a battery pack that lasts more than 2hrs.
Those old CRT TVs - thank god someone put digital tuner converter boxes on the market or they'd be filing up landfills around the country too.
And then there is the drawer full of Nokia cellphones that will never be reused ...

Designed obsolescence. Not everything you own needs to be able to be modded to be useful or worth owning.

In fact we ran Apple g3's with linux for quite a spell. Saved us a bit of money to delay getting new replacement hardware.I still have a cookie waiting for you.

For all intents and purposes you are renting Apple equipment and not owning it.True of any purchase.

My brother has an iphone and an ipod touch for his daughter. I had toyed with the idea of getting an ipod touch to do development, but so far have passed on it. My first computer experience was using punch cards,when monitors were not even being used yet. I am not afraid of typing and still do a lot in the command line environment. A touchy feely computer does not really excite me. To me it is more of a limitation.Awesome. You can continue working in the 60's. The rest of the world has moved on. A command line has its place (and I do my web programming in a notepad app - but have moved on form vi and emacs)

Though, I do like to be just a mouse jocky sometimes. A laptop is just fine for me. The Ipad, Who cares..... Plenty of people care. Its not for you, but that does not mean it needs to be dismissed out of hand for everyone else who it will work for.

For the first time years have I seen so much anti Apple media coverage. People finally have a clue about the emperor's new clothes.You obviously don't remember the introduction of the iPod ... here let me refresh your memory with some quotes ...

Apple users at Mac discussion sites seemed a bit crestfallen that the device wasn't as revolutionary as the company had promised last week.

Indeed, many said it was over-priced and under-powered.

"Apple has introduced a product that?s neither revolutionary nor breakthrough, and they've priced it so high that it's reminiscent of the Cube," a post on MacSlash said.

"I'm puzzled by this new Apple product; there's absolutely nothing new about it. It's a simple consumer gadget without any soul, not like the iMac or the recent iBook."

"Colour me disappointed! I expect more from Apple when they kick up such a media frenzy," writes Matthew McRae. "Fatally flawed (by price)."

"Maybe Steve Jobs can afford to throw away $US400 on an MP3 player, but there's no way I'd fork over that much cash."

That iPod ... what a flop that was.

When and if Macjicjack comes out with their new device,, things will get really interesting.You rent a magicjack? Why not use Skye and a subscription to their landline service??

Especially for the people who paid a premium for the ereaders, For sure it will upset a lot of cell phone carriers. Maybe that is why the Ipad has no usb ports........ and Apple has allegedly stopped support for usb devices on it's other equipment.You are the worst fudder out there. Apple has not dropped support for USB. Indeed, Apple is leading the charge to USB3.0. True, the iPad has no USB ports. It has a dock connector ... and a USB accessory aimed squarely at the digital photo market with a card reader and a USB port. The iPad is not intended to be a standalone computer. It is intended to be a peripheral device - working in conjunction with an existing machine. What do you need the extra USB ports for? It has BlueTooth which will address 90% of your needs these days (have you experienced BT yet?), and for everything else there is the dongle approach.

Even in the publishing world you are seeing more and more removal of drm from their products. Microsoft and Apple just have not seen the light yet. Apple is like a possessive boyfriend and eventually Apple fans dependency will wane at least to a degree.Removal of DRM? Are you kidding?? Its just not being called DRM. But speaking of the publishing world, the traditional media publishers - both books and news/print (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/02/02/textbook-publishers-strike-deals-to-bring-content-to-ipad/) - are getting behind the iPad. Apple has seen the light - its is all LED and bright and glossy. Enjoy your incandescent light bulb - it will burn out soon.

BTW - it's iPad (capital P), and Linux (capital L - since it is a proper noun)

[computoman]

[qoute] Anti-freedom? Apple have always been a closed, proprietary platform. [/quote]
You were not around the original Apple where hacking the Apple was what made it successful. Part of the wave of home brew clubs. Apple wholly supported such activities.

How much is the top Ipad with docking station and etc cost?

The world stopped revolving around tokenuser so he is going to complain about every little thing. He does not control the electronics world, Open hardware is on the rise whether he likes it or not with all his rhetoric. I have no qualm with new technology, but I am not and will not be a slave to it, Tokenuser wants everyone to be a slave robot to throwaway technology. These days, most consumers feel the same way also about not wanting throwaway technology. Why are there so many do it your self shows if it were not true?

I am sorry if I upset his premeditated rhetoric Applecart..........

[tokenuser]

The world stopped revolving around tokenuser so he is going to complain about every little thing.The only person I hear complaining hear is you.

iPad will fail because it doesn't fit YOUR need for a command line.
iPad will fail because it doesn't have USB ports - for device that YOU don't specify, but somehow magically assume everyone needs.
iPad will fail because it won't run the esoteric Linux build YOU are favouring this week.
iPad will fail because it does happen to fit YOUR budget (free).

I am not sure how little you are, but you are the only thing I am complaining about.

FWIW - I was not around during the roots of the homebrew computer club days in Cupertino. I also managed to miss the cad punch days, but did start my IT career on IBM mainframe gear, and spent many nights on call pouring over EBCIDIC dumps of code for software that scheduled the steel production lines where I worked. I don't want a cookie, but suspect you need a nice mug of warm cocoa and calm down a little.

[phatlip]

To really use the pad effectively, you will be spending close to a grand for all the bells and whistles.

As Token pointed out, this isn't true. You mentioned the docking station in your other post. I can't find a price for that on Apple.com yet, but I highly doubt it costs $371 for a docking station (assuming you get the $629 iPad).


If can not not mod it, you do not own it.

I don't see how that's the case, but you can mod it. I guess you never heard of Jailbreaking or the folks who put Linux on their iPhones.


For all intents and purposes you are renting Apple equipment and not owning it.

Um...how so? I bought a Macbook back in 2006 and got another Macbook Pro this Christmas. Those are mine. At no point am I giving that back to Apple. This makes no sense.


I am not afraid of typing and still do a lot in the command line environment.

Same. But I don't want to use a command line on an iPod touch. I wouldn't want to on any device that's all touch screen. Why would you want to?


A touchy feely computer does not really excite me. To me it is more of a limitation.

Then what's stopping you from using the Terminal in OS X (assuming you're talking about a mac). Nobody is forcing you to use the GUI. Use the terminal and issue all of the UNIX commands you love so much.


Maybe that is why the Ipad has no usb ports........ and Apple has allegedly stopped support for usb devices on it's other equipment.

Every single solitary Mac sold has USB ports. I have no clue what you're talking about. The iPad doesn't have a built in USB. But it's (unfortunately) not a computer.

[computoman]

If it has a cpu it is a computer albeit a special purpose one. The top end ipad as I understand it was over $800 not including all the other add-on's, so the value you mention may be incorrect as I understand it. The regular macs and osx have nothing to do with it. We are talking about the IPad not regular macs. I no longer own a mac anyway. As far as owning it, you completely misunderstand. You think you own it, but if you want to mod it, kiss your warranty goodbye. You have lost at least part of the value you paid for it. That is my point. The fact that Apple only let's certain applications be used on the ipad amplifies that you do not own it..You have no clue what real freedom is. Owning the ipad is like owning a car with the hood locked down so you can not work on it. You have to get Apples development package to write software. Why no third party development packages????? The cpu is proprietary to prevent alternative os's from being run on the ipad. Apple is about as open as a closed door.

Anyone who disses Steve Wozniak (originally an hp employee) is just plain insulting. If it were not for Steve Apple might not be even around today. He almost went to work for Commodore. Mr. Tramiel has an interesting story about him. When the Apples first came out they were sold as kits and users were expected to mod them. His royal highness has just plain ignorance of computer history.


The original issue was Ipad vs linux. I have seen some tablets for linux but they were insanely overpriced. With the new arm and atom cpu's you will see tablets at a much less cost than the apple ipad. Third party development will skyrocket for linux based units over the ipad. I predict then the apple ipad popularity will hit the skids. There is already so much software available that can be ported easily. One of the reasons microsoft can not compete in the netbook market. There is so much free source code, which you do not have for the ipad. You do not have to have anyone's blessing to run code on linux except for some of the cellphones (nothing to do with linux) which is ludicrous. I can compile the same code for a variety of platforms without any real modifications. I can not do that for the ipad per se unless you use web based apps. The Ipad will have it's fifteen minutes of fame just like the Newton........ Besides if apple has it's way, you will not see linux on the ipad so the question per se is irrelevant from one point of view.

Something to watch: http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/02/you-bought-software-you-own-it-vernor-v-autodesk

[tokenuser]

1/2 cup unsalted butter, softened
1 cup brown sugar
3 tsp. granulated sugar
1 egg
2 tsp. vanilla extract
1/2 tsp. baking soda
1/2 tsp. baking powder
1/2 tsp. salt
1 3/4 cups flour
1 1/2 tsp. instant espresso powder, slightly crushed
8 ounces semisweet chocolate chips

Cream the butter with the sugars until fluffy. Beat in the egg and the vanilla extract. Combine the dry ingredients and beat into the butter mixture. Stir in the chocolate chips. Drop by large spoonfuls onto a greased cookie sheet. Bake at 375 degrees for 8-10 minutes, or 10-12 minutes for a crispier cookie. Makes 15 large cookies.

[tokenuser]

Hope you had time to enjoy the cookie.
It is the actual Neiman Marcus cookie recipe, and not the one perpetuated b the famous cookie hoax.

If it has a cpu it is a computer albeit a special purpose one. The top end ipad as I understand it was over $800 not including all the other add-on's, so the value you mention may be incorrect as I understand it.So far you are correct ... however all the accessories are just that, accessories, and not need to run the machine, and non essential to its operation. Other "pad" type device will need similar accessories to achieve extended functionality as well.

The regular macs and osx have nothing to do with it. We are talking about the IPad not regular macs. I no longer own a mac anyway. As far as owning it, you completely misunderstand. You think you own it, but if you want to mod it, kiss your warranty goodbye. You have lost at least part of the value you paid for it. That is my point.I don't think you get the point. People buy things that are fit for purpose. You don't buy a stove when you want a dishwasher. You don't buy a car when you want a boat. If you want something to heavily mod, you buy something with a more open architecture. If it was fit for the purpose for which you purchased it. You own it. You have an odd sense of ownership.

The fact that Apple only let's certain applications be used on the ipad amplifies that you do not own it..You have no clue what real freedom is. Owning the ipad is like owning a car with the hood locked down so you can not work on it.I guess that over 99% of the population don't do mechanical work on their car. They bought the vehicle knowing that they would need to get a mechanic to open the hood. For the other less than 1%, I am guessing that a majority of them if they do want to mod the car, they get one that is readily accessible (parts, service manuals, etc), and don't go out and buy a Tesla.

You have to get Apples development package to write software. Why no third party development packages?That part irks me, but its a minor irritation.

The cpu is proprietary to prevent alternative os's from being run on the ipad. Apple is about as open as a closed door.Can you run an alternate OS on desktop/laptop Macs? Absolutely. You've said you did it yourself. Can you run an alternate OS on the iPhones? Sortof - limited Linux support (functional but not all iPhone hardware accessible by the OS), but hacked (jailbroken) firmware available.

But, why does Apple need to be open? Again, if you want open, look at another platform with a clearly defined, none locked down, architecture.

If the purpose is to mod the device, get something that has those options.

Anyone who disses Steve Wozniak (originally an hp employee) is just plain insulting. If it were not for Steve Apple might not be even around today. He almost went to work for Commodore. Mr. Tramiel has an interesting story about him. When the Apples first came out they were sold as kits and users were expected to mod them. His royal highness has just plain ignorance of computer history.Can't see anyone dissing Steve here. Its a pity he had his plane crash - he was never truly innovative after that event.

As for computer history ignorance (and I'll take it that the "royal highness" quip was aimed at me), take a look at your history.

The Altair was a kit computer. It was NOT designed by the Woz.
The Apple I which was designed by Woz - WAS FULLY ASSEMBLED, minus keyboard, case, powersupply, monitor. It was never sold as a kit. It might well have been modded, and I remember the Apple ][ (which Woz also designed) having a prototype board available, but I'll say it again - it was not sold as a kit.

The original issue was Ipad vs linux. I have seen some tablets for linux but they were insanely overpriced. With the new arm and atom cpu's you will see tablets at a much less cost than the apple ipad.Perhaps, but those that are in the business of building computers seem to disagree.

Interesting interview with Scott Lin of Acer Taiwan (http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20100201PD208.html), basically he says:

Lin pointed out that designing an iPad-like device would not pose any technical challenges for Acer, but said such a product does not fit into Acer's business model.

No brainer there - they manufacture laptops for many companies, so they have the skills and experience to do it, and do it at an attractive price point.

BUT ...

Apple is able to support the iPad through its iTunes ecosystem, while few other makers, including Acer, have comparable experience in operating an online store, Lin noted.

Historically, closed platforms are typically limited in terms of scale and are confined to niche markets. Apple has built is business out of carving its own niche, which means that while Apple could see success with devices like the iPad, other players are unlikely to be able to replicate its result simply by copying, Lin noted.

However, Lin said he believes the iPad is unlikely to impact the notebook/netbook markets as the two products target completely different consumer groups.

Bingo. A CEO who gets it.

Also of interest (http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20100129PD217.html) ...

The vendors (ASUSTek and MSI) originally planned to offer prices pegged at 20-30% lower than the Apple iPad, while they generally expected the device to cost as much as US$1,000. The US$499 entry-level price has caught vendors by surprise and means they will now need to adjust their price scales even lower to attract consumers, the sources pointed out.

However, starting a price war at below US$499 raises concerns that any profitably will be driven out of the nascent tablet PC market, before it even has a chance to take off. Vendors are currently evaluating their strategies hoping to avoid price competition, the sources noted.

Acer realise that the differentiator in this case is actually the "iTunes ecosystem". Without that, the devices are just a commodity level product and since the iPad is already priced lower than expected, they need to find another way to make themselves stand out. Apple has iTunes and the iBookstore.

What do the other vendors have? An open platform is one (ie can run Windows or Linux), but what does that really mean to the average consumer (not the typical Rev3 geek, but folks walking into a Best Buy or Walmart)? Cellular (3G) access? Maybe - but Apple have sown up a sweet deal with AT&T on that front ... and you can bet "exclusive" was written into the agreement.

There is more to it than many appreciate. This is not just about the hardware.

Third party development will skyrocket for linux based units over the ipad.Perhaps, but the general market penetration of those devices will be minor.

I predict then the apple ipad popularity will hit the skids.I predict you will be wrong for the simple reason that noone else has the iTunes/iBookstore infrastrcture backing it up. Love it or hate it, that is a huge part of the equation you are ignoring.

There is already so much software available that can be ported easily.Very true. Take a look at the iTunes app store (you can get to it online now - no need to install iTunes). Much of that software (or an equivalent app) has already been ported, and is readily accessible by the average consumer on the street without the need for an esoteric commandline toolchain.

Besides if apple has it's way, you will not see linux on the ipad so the question per se is irrelevant from one point of view.I think you miss the point. Not every device in the world needs to run Linux to be useful to the person that purchased it.

This is not "Ipad vs linux" <sic>. That is a different story. There is (going to be) plenty of opportunity for putting a variety Linux distros on tablet devices. Your argument is for putting Linux on an iPad, and you are pissed that the Apple hardware is closed so you can't do it.

Try the cookie recipe it might calm you down a little.

[phatlip]

If it has a cpu it is a computer albeit a special purpose one.

Do you consider your car a computer? What about your phone? I get what you're saying, but I think that's too general of a statement.


The top end ipad as I understand it was over $800 not including all the other add-on's, so the value you mention may be incorrect as I understand it.


Yeah, but it's also the TOP END model. And even then, I doubt it would come to $1,000. I doubt a docking station costs close to $200.


You think you own it, but if you want to mod it, kiss your warranty goodbye.

That suggests having a warranty is what determines whether or not you own something. Having or not having a warranty has nothing to do with owning a product. Following your logic, when the warranty expires you would no longer own it. Bad argument.


You have lost at least part of the value you paid for it. That is my point.

I hate to break it to you, but if you installed Linux on an iPad you lost at least part of the value you paid for it. That's even if it were still covered by the warranty.


The fact that Apple only let's certain applications be used on the ipad amplifies that you do not own it.

I understand what you're TRYING to say, but that isn't true. I own it. It's mine. And again, if I really want to I can jailbreak it or install Linux on it. Yes that voids the warranty. But that's sort of expected. Apple is only going to support THEIR own software.


You have no clue what real freedom is.

Simmer down drama queen. We're talking about an Apple product.


Owning the ipad is like owning a car with the hood locked down so you can not work on it. You have to get Apples development package to write software. Why no third party development packages?????

This is probably the only thing you've said thus far that's true. I'm not a fan of that either. This is important to you, and it's important to me. It's not an issue to most though. It's not a big deal though. Just don't buy it. You have other options. I have an Android phone and love it. That and they are coming out with a ton of Android tablets this year.


There is so much free source code, which you do not have for the ipad. You do not have to have anyone's blessing to run code on linux except for some of the cellphones (nothing to do with linux) which is ludicrous.

The app store begs to differ. Over 100,000 apps (and counting). I suspect we will one day see more Android apps though. But I say that only because collaboratively, there will one day be more devices running Android than the iPhone OS. But that's simple economics.

[omikron]

It's funny how Computoman has a monopoly on the linux threads. I'll bet 90% of them were started by him so he could preach the gospel of linux, lol.

I could go in to a lot of rebuttals to everything he has said but I think it would fall on deaf ears so I'll just make two points.

1.) The iPad SOLD over 300,000 on launch day, even the most popular linux distro can't even come close to that amount of DOWNLOADS in a 24 hr span and its being given away for free!

2.) In the article that Computoman linked to the author cited Moblin as a big competitor to the iPad. I have Moblin running on my eeepc and if this is the big competition from the linux side, Apple has nothing to worry about.

Ah I just can't resist, it's too easy. Apple has never been pro open source unless it was to their advantage. Yes at one point they attended computer clubs and hacked together software but that was when they were working out of their garage, man. They never would have become the company they are today if they kept that silliness up.

[computoman]

http://patentabsurdity.com/


I am not going to answer Phatlip's much less anyone else's. diatribe of misinformation. I am sure he truly believes what he says, but I do feel sorry for him. I was able to re-engineer an os program on my computer today to meet my needs, I could not have done that legally with MS or APPLE fanboy mentality.

If you need an overpriced babysitter the ipad is perfect. Unfortunately, I want to do more than sucking nipples for a premium price with my computer. I also do not want to be limited to just one place to get my software or media no matter how much they have.. I have managed quite well without the itunes store since it was created.

It will be very interesting to see what happens with the Bilski case before the Supreme court. It will also be interesting to see what the rough draft of acta due out next week has to say. We are about to see if the US is going back centuries to pre Magna Carta.

Make Magazine: "If you can't open it, you don't own it." (this is true of software and hardware)

The Maker's Bill of Rights

Meaningful and specific parts lists shall be included.
Cases shall be easy to open.
Batteries should be replaceable.
Special tools are allowed only for darn good reasons.
Profiting by selling expensive special tools is wrong and not making special tools available is even worse.
Torx is OK; tamperproof is rarely OK.
Components, not entire sub-assemblies, shall be replaceable.
Consumables, like fuses and filters, shall be easy to access.
Circuit boards shall be commented.
Power from USB is good; power from proprietary power adapters is bad.
Standard connecters shall have pinouts defined.
If it snaps shut, it shall snap open.
Screws better than glues.
Docs and drivers shall have permalinks and shall reside for all perpetuity at archive.org.
Ease of repair shall be a design ideal, not an afterthought.
Metric or standard, not both.
Schematics shall be included.

Most intelligent people feel this way.

[uteck]

Just because I can't resist wading into this mess, I'll jump on the "I hate the iPad" bandwagon also. It's a small and slow wagon, but we like it that way.

I had some hope for the iPad to be something new, but as it is just a large iPod that is not very interesting to me. If it had a USB port or microSD, that might be better, but you have to buy a proprietary cable to pulg in any device, so I just get the feeling Apple is gouging people for every last cent they have.
Also the heavy-handed control over the app store is disconcerting to me. They allow some apps that violate their terms, but disallow others. Their is no openness or transparency in the app process, which just grates on my nerves. Apple retains the sole right to do with whatever they want with their products, even retroactively changing your device to suit their ends. Will people be able to say 'no' to updating their 3G iPhones because they don't want iAd, or will that be shoved down their throat because iAd will be a new cash-cow for Apple?

The specs on the device are not that great either. It's only 4:3 aspect, so even if you tilt it sideways, it can not do 16:9 without bars. Not much of a media device. It's wifi seems to be bit wonky, and more people seem to be returning them after a few weeks when the "ohh shiny!" feeling as worn off. But then it won't be the first time Apple fans have lined and paid to be beta testers.

At least with Linux I get more then what I paid for it.:D It works great on my G3 PowerPC iMac running Debian.