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ibn-al-xu-ffasch
01-18-2007, 11:55 PM
Hey guys, I just listened to the newest episode of the podcast and I heard the comments between Josh and Conner about whether or not Batman is a conservative or liberal, I immediately thought about this article from Dave's Longbox . (http://daveslongbox.blogspot.com/2006/11/election-day-2006-whose-side-is-your.html)

Agree? Disagree? What do you think?

ELECTION DAY 2006 - WHOSE SIDE IS YOUR FAVORITE SUPERHERO ON?

It's mid-term election day here in the States, which means that tommorrow 1/3 of the country will be cautiously happy, 1/3 will be pissed off, and the other 1/3 will have no idea that there was an election in the first place.

It's times like these that make me wonder how superheroes would vote. Is Captain America a Republican or a Democrat? What about Batman? It's tempting to attribute one's own political beliefs to one's childhood heroes, but that would be wrong. We're in a No-Spin Zone here at Dave's Long Box, so I have examined the evidence and decided on a political party affiliation for some of my favorite heroes without regard to my personal beliefs.
So, in an effort to piss off readers of all political persuasions, here then is the breakdown. I can't wait for the Green Lantern fans to start flaming me in the comments section...
SUPERMAN – MODERATE REPUBLICANSmall town values and big city pragmatism inform Superman’s middle-of-the-road political beliefs. On the one hand, his upbringing in rural Kansas forms the bedrock of Superman’s values system. On the other hand, as Clark Kent, Superman works in bustling cosmopolitan Metropolis for a big city liberal newspaper, The Daily Planet. Superman is a fiscal conservative who has a healthy distrust of big government – don't forget his arch-enemy Lex Luthor was President of the United States for a while. He’s moderate on most social issues like gay rights (Jimmy Olsen is his best pal) but is pro-capital punishment. Hey, Superman, it doesn’t matter if you cry after executing some Kryptonian criminals – you’re still pro-death penalty.
WONDER WOMAN – SOCIALIST Wonder Woman was raised in an all-female society, a monarchist utopia with strong socialist overtones and plenty of hot girl-on-girl action. Wonder Woman came to “Patriarch’s World” with a clear liberal agenda but a willingness to crack skulls if need be. She’s heavily into social justice, environmental issues, and sisterhood. Wonder Woman is not beyond sticking a high-heeled red boot up your ass if you get in the way of her Sapphic Socialism.
GREEN ARROW – TOTAL ****ING COMMUNISTGreen Arrow is a loose cannon, politically speaking. He’s somewhere to the left of Alec Baldwin on the political spectrum and he’s armed to the teeth with those crazy-ass arrows of his. Green Arrow is an unapologetic leftist. He's always *****ing about how the Justice League are a bunch of fascists and railing against “The Man.” He’s soft on drugs – his sidekick Speedy was a frickin’ junkie! An advocate of redistribution of wealth and his own pinko version of justice, this modern day Robin Hood wants to take your hard-earned money and give it to some soup kitchen or something. Go smoke another joint, hippy!
GREEN LANTERN – REPUBLICANThe squarest superhero in the DC Universe (and that’s saying a lot), Green Lantern is also one of the most conservative. A former test pilot and current galactic police officer, Green Lantern has always been a running dog for The Man. Dude carries a WMD on his ring finger and flies around reshaping reality according to his idea of The Way Things Should Be. Total neocon. (I am so getting hate email for this.)
BATMAN – INDEPENDENTBatman is a true independent, a man of solid principles and baffling contradictions. This may be because he is mentally ill. Batman has an almost paranoid distrust of government institutions, yet believes in the rule of law. He’s an urban vigilante, yet he’s a proponent of gun control. Batman is anti-death penalty to a fault – how many times has he had to capture the mass-murdering Joker and return him to Arkham Asylum instead of the electric chair? Contradictions be damned. Batman follows his own moral compass, and Batman is always right. When Batman votes, he weighs all the options and chooses the best person for the job, regardless of party affiliation or whether they are actually running for office. In other words, he writes-in BATMAN on every ballot.
SPIDER-MAN – DEMOCRAT “With great power comes great responsibility.” That’s 100% Democrat. Spidey is as much about taking care of the little guy as he is about clobbering bad guys. Spidey grew up poor, watching his Aunt May trying to stretch her Social Security check each month and scrambling to make ends meet as a freelance photographer for that yellow rag The Daily Bugle. Nowadays he’s working as a teacher in a New York public school. Recently Spidey was duped by reactionary neocon superheroes into supporting their oppressive agenda in Marvel’s Civil War mini-series. Total democrat.
DAREDEVIL– FAR-LEFT DEMOCRAT Let’s see: Rich, highly-educated skirt-chasing Manhattan defense attorney. Total liberal. Enjoy that Streisand concert, Daredevil.
IRON MAN – NEOCON REPUBLICAN No Marvel hero has better Republican credentials than Tony Stark, aka Iron Man. He’s a billionaire industrialist and weapons manufacturer with an Ivy League education and a drinking problem. He’s a staunch anti-communist and served as Secretary of Defense (can we have him back?). In Marvel’s Civil War storyline, Iron Man has drawn a line in the proverbial sand. He wants all superhumans to register with the government, and if you’re not with him, you’re against him. And if you’re against him, look out. He’ll classify you as an enemy combatant and throw your ass into his Negative Zone prison, where U.S. courts have no jurisdiction. No, he’s not considered a supervillain, why do you ask?
THE HULK – LIBERTARIAN “Hulk just want to be left alone.”
CAPTAIN AMERICA - TRUMAN DEMOCRAT Cap is a man out of time. Thawed after 50-odd years of suspended animation, this living legend from World War II is guided by old-fashioned American values and unshakeable principles. In other words, he’s got a bit of a stick up his ass. Captain America can’t even recognize today’s political parties, which have mutated in the decades he’s been on ice into bloated, hypocritical ideological monstrosities whose divisive policies makes him sad. Makes him cry, even. Cap believes in small government that stays out of private lives, a strong national defense, and pulling oneself up by one’s boot straps or shoelaces or whatever is handy. However, Cap is opposed to legislating morality and believes that government has a responsibility to help out the less fortunate and defenseless, like kids and puppies. Cap is a walking Frank Capra movie with a mean right hook. He votes his conscience, not along party lines.
GHOST RIDER - UNAFILLIATEDThe Spirit of Vengeance, Ghost Rider is the ultimate protest voter. He always votes against the incumbent and anyone who endorses helmet laws. Vengeance is his.

billy-parker
01-22-2007, 03:36 AM
I've always hated the Captain America political explanation. Yah, we know he's from another era and his views don't fit with today's changed world. WHO CARES! Choose a side!

Now I love the character and I say he is a conservative. He's a soldier and he's fighting for freedom in the Civil War, so he's a conservative. That's the way I see him. Anyone else see this?

conorkilpatrick
01-22-2007, 04:18 AM
I've always hated the Captain America political explanation. Yah, we know he's from another era and his views don't fit with today's changed world. WHO CARES! Choose a side!

Now I love the character and I say he is a conservative. He's a soldier and he's fighting for freedom in the Civil War, so he's a conservative. That's the way I see him. Anyone else see this?

You don't have to be a conservative to be a soldier fight for freedom.

Cap is a Truman Democrat.

acomicbookgirl
01-22-2007, 04:29 AM
Wonder Woman was raised in an all-female society, a monarchist utopia with strong socialist overtones and plenty of hot girl-on-girl action.

Am I reading that right? Girl-on Girl action? Are you kidding me?

fred
01-22-2007, 12:19 PM
and the only girl that everyone was so suprised to see is creeped out in less than 3 days
way to go fellas

JAFlanagan
01-22-2007, 02:25 PM
a quick bit of sexism can very quickly ruin your little political piece can't it?

However, in defense of Dave's Longbox, the whole thing is slightly tongue in cheek, so I take it with a grain of salt, since his descriptions of liberals and conservatives are also a bit off.

But it's a fair point.

fred
01-22-2007, 02:29 PM
a quick bit of sexism can very quickly ruin your little political piece can't it?

However, in defense of Dave's Longbox, the whole thing is slightly tongue in cheek, so I take it with a grain of salt, since his descriptions of liberals and conservatives are also a bit off.

But it's a fair point.
sexism?

since when is hot girl on girl action not pro-woman?



[intentionally ridiculous]

mister-s
01-22-2007, 04:37 PM
Yorick Brown: Neo-con. :D I know, I know. He's not a super hero.

Seriously though, I think it is relaly cool that something like Civil War can get us talking about stuff like this.

How about Professor X? I'm thinking he might be a centrist.

paulsharkey
01-22-2007, 05:32 PM
With the exception of Green Arrow and the Question I don't see a lot of belief in any form of politics from any hero in the DC universe. They would strike me as a Militia with totalitarian aspirations. After all with very few exceptions all of this people work independently from there governments, they don't discover they have powers and decide to join the police force. they put on a mask or take off there glasses and do what seems to them to be the right thing. They don't trust there government to keep the people safe, hell they don't trust there government to keep them safe or else they would be fighting as a part of the armed services with out the nagging voice in the back of there head going "My family will be killed if people knew I was such and such".

This is a group of people who's premier members have a base on the moon. Now why would you build a base on the moon if you were willing to obey all the laws and such of the US government. The fact they have this place at all means they can do what they want up there and i am not talking about the "girl on girl" stuff. As a side note does wonder-woman count as a Girl? I thought she was made of Clay, would that not be more Golum on Golum action? No they are trying to figure out the best way to run the world.

It may be an invasion force or they may run for government them selves there slogan could be "We know better" but it's going to happen. And remember there is no such thing as a secret ballot when you have X-ray Vision.

The JLA have seen past the peoples form of government and are building there own. They will rule us all with an iron-fist and then all we'll have is Green Arrow and the question standing on milk crates screaming at one another about what went wrong with the world and insulting each others Mothers.

conorkilpatrick
01-22-2007, 05:51 PM
With the exception of Green Arrow and the Question I don't see a lot of belief in any form of politics from any hero in the DC universe. They would strike me as a Militia with totalitarian aspirations. After all with very few exceptions all of this people work independently from there governments, they don't discover they have powers and decide to join the police force. they put on a mask or take off there glasses and do what seems to them to be the right thing. They don't trust there government to keep the people safe, hell they don't trust there government to keep them safe or else they would be fighting as a part of the armed services with out the nagging voice in the back of there head going "My family will be killed if people knew I was such and such".

This is a group of people who's premier members have a base on the moon. Now why would you build a base on the moon if you were willing to obey all the laws and such of the US government. The fact they have this place at all means they can do what they want up there and i am not talking about the "girl on girl" stuff. As a side note does wonder-woman count as a Girl? I thought she was made of Clay, would that not be more Golum on Golum action? No they are trying to figure out the best way to run the world.

It may be an invasion force or they may run for government them selves there slogan could be "We know better" but it's going to happen. And remember there is no such thing as a secret ballot when you have X-ray Vision.

The JLA have seen past the peoples form of government and are building there own. They will rule us all with an iron-fist and then all we'll have is Green Arrow and the question standing on milk crates screaming at one another about what went wrong with the world and insulting each others Mothers.

What you are describing is very much the story that Warren Ellis and Bryan Hitch told with The Authority. They took the JLA to their next logical step - global overseers and defacto world government.

paulsharkey
01-22-2007, 05:59 PM
What you are describing is very much the story that Warren Ellis and Bryan Hitch told with The Authority. They took the JLA to their next logical step - global overseers and defacto world government.

Oh defiantly but it is the next logical step (well as far as logic goes in a universe that is home to plastic man).

acomicbookgirl
01-22-2007, 11:09 PM
and the only girl that everyone was so suprised to see is creeped out in less than 3 days
way to go fellas

Its Wonder Woman... It just doesn't sit well with me talking about her like that.. That's all... I don't know what that guy was on when writing that... Oh well..

six-gun
02-15-2007, 01:44 AM
Batman is without a doubt a Conservative but not a Republican

There's a big difference!

drwally
02-15-2007, 07:36 PM
Its Wonder Woman... It just doesn't sit well with me talking about her like that.. That's all... I don't know what that guy was on when writing that... Oh well..

I think Wonder Woman's honor (and yours) has been justly defended here by other men, by Fred in very cutting terms no less, acomicbookgirl, no worries. In a fanboy (yes, too many *boys*) forum, the occasional off the cuff comment that rubs the wrong way on the "girl action" front is unavoidable. Such is the plight of women, what a pity. Good thing you're here to remind them of that, and Wonder Woman is the ultimate example of the woman who can handle herself and do what you did here, defend the righteous against ignorance. Amazons don't exist on Paradise Island for the enjoyment of men -- men are banned for some very good reasons.

Otherwise, minus the above tactless "girl on girl" comment, I think the political affiliations are pretty spot on, and I am a total political junkie so know a thing or two about that "when these worlds collide."

Batman a conservative? The word has been so hijacked by ideological neocon cheerleaders that it's hard to apply to Batman until true conservatives can claim it back. And in all his decades of existence, I think Batman is the true spirit of the "unaffiliated/independent." He just get's a little physical when bureaucracy gets in his way, is all.

JLA? In the best of worlds, the U.N., In the worst of worlds, The Authority. If any character gets too caught in one designation, then their run is destined for cancellation. I did like one little JLA/JSA mini story where Mr. Bones totally set up the heroes by floating a rumor to make them overreact and prove his point that --hey, sometimes you just need to step back and take a breath.

fred
02-15-2007, 07:42 PM
Wonder Woman is the ultimate example of the woman who can handle herself

heh heh, either I'm really immature or you did it too

drwally
02-15-2007, 07:48 PM
heh heh, either I'm really immature or you did it too

"God will get you for that Fred" -- Where is Bea Arthur when I need her? You sir, are completely incorrigible... iFanboy's own official Court Jester in Chief...

conorkilpatrick
02-15-2007, 08:37 PM
Batman a conservative? The word has been so hijacked by ideological neocon cheerleaders that it's hard to apply to Batman until true conservatives can claim it back. And in all his decades of existence, I think Batman is the true spirit of the "unaffiliated/independent." He just get's a little physical when bureaucracy gets in his way, is all.

100% agreed.

six-gun
02-16-2007, 12:42 AM
100% agreed.


What are you agreeing with, the rape of Conservatism or that Batman is an independent?

I agree with the first note fully. I'm a huge conservative, I think that America is a Republic, not a Democracy, that the only role that the federal government should play in America is in the protection of our nation and as a meditator in between states over legal differences.

I think that our military is too small and that only being able to win 1 1/2 regional conflicts at once is pathetic. But I also feel that Marijuana should be legalized for the reason that it's not the federal government's role to dictate what is and isn't legal at such a trivial level. (It should be illegal to drive and be high, and as a person I'm against weed.)

That's what I think a conservative is, Reagan is my hero and although I'm a devote Christian and am happy with the conservatives put in office by the Church's active political nature of late, I'm not in full agreement with the views of the Church on the whole.

What do you guys think?
It maybe a little simple. But I'm only 16.

marcushill73
02-16-2007, 01:30 AM
It's hard to argue with that!

conorkilpatrick
02-16-2007, 03:12 AM
What are you agreeing with... or that Batman is an independent?

That one.

As for the rest, no U.S. politics talk here, please. I am as much a political junkie as anyone, but I'd like to keep it out of this place.

Thank you.

k-dizzle
02-16-2007, 03:17 AM
That one.

As for the rest, no U.S. politics talk here, please. I am as much a political junkie as anyone, but I'd like to keep it out of this place.

Thank you.
can we discuss politics of other countries?

conorkilpatrick
02-16-2007, 03:18 AM
can we discuss politics of other countries?

Only Belize.

k-dizzle
02-16-2007, 03:19 AM
Only Belize. damn!!!!!!

drwally
02-16-2007, 07:42 AM
That one.

As for the rest, no U.S. politics talk here, please. I am as much a political junkie as anyone, but I'd like to keep it out of this place.

Thank you.

And we once again 100% agree-(is that a quorum?)- try not to get to specific on your own political affiliations, or you risk alienating others. The beauty of comics is that they can lift these issues out and examine them in a fresh, allegorical or metaphorical light, without appearing or having to take a partisan stance on a real world figure or real world group. On this thread I would suggest not posting "this is what I believe" or "this is what a real world group believes or does and I agree, and I think it's good or bad," but rather to examine a particular comics character or comics storyline in particular and how that might reflect back on political issues. Then you can (perhaps) escape alienating others and generate interesting discussion more in the spirit of this particular discussion board.

Does that help? My political affiliation--consensus builder.

drwally
02-16-2007, 07:45 AM
I f****** hate Abe, but Ozawa and Naoto Kan are the BOMB. Did I just break my own rule?

Never mind....