Episode 156 - Safari Sucks! What's the Best Browser for Your iPhone? [Discussion]

[marilee]

Apple's Safari is wack - so what's the best alternative, third-party browser for your iPhone? Annie compares Vanilla Surf and the (approved by Apple, surprisingly!) Opera Mini.

Watch or download this episode now (http://revsion3.com/appjudgment/ip_annie_vanillasurf)

[adamwillis]

opera has tabs and on the home screen those aren't windows that are already open like she seems to describe. You don't need to add a favorite to visit another site. for the other browser's issue about having to manually type .com, there is a .com button and if you need .org or something else, you can hold it down for more options... This episode has definitely disappointed me.


I guess she should stick to safari because it's obviously to complex for her to use anything else.

[omikron]

I guess she should stick to safari because it's obviously to complex for her to use anything else.

First off, please don't attack a hosts intelligence on the message board, that's just pathetic and makes you out to be a troll. Besides, she stated at the end that she preferred vanilla surf despite it's shortcomings. Don't make personal attacks on the hosts, keep your comments related to the review especially since this is your first post. It will make the Rev3 team and the rest of the members take your criticisms more seriously if you keep it civil.

She did fail to mention the tabs feature in Opera, but since it was reviewed on its own in a prior episode and it's one of the most downloaded apps of all time she probably figured it was a moot point to mention it. I would probably call the squares representing websites on the home screen "windows" as well, because that is the closest word I can think of to accurately describe them. I suppose you could call them bookmarks but it really isn't of much importance.

As far as mentioning the lack of an auto fill for web domains, it IS a feature that is lacking and something that all modern browsers, desktop or mobile contain so it was a legitimate Con.

[masterq]

Opera mini sucks, plain and simple. Reasons:

1. All data goes through opera's servers. This means they can see everything you do. Also, since the data is compressed most images lose a noticeable amount of quality.

2. There is no security whatsoever. Because all traffic goes through opera's servers, SSL (the encryption that makes https traffic secure) is stripped off making it VERY insecure.

3. They did not use the iPhones built in UI controls. Instead, they created their own and did a horrendous job. Interface feels stiff and unresponsive. No offense to android users but it looks and feels like an android app, not an iPhone app.

4. Zooming sucks. Pages are completely unreadable when zoomed out. You can also only zoom all the way out or all the way in. Unacceptable.

5. Rendering engine is pure shit. Page elements are often out of place and not sized correctly making most web pages look horrible. It's sad to say but IE's trident engine does a better job.

I can go on and on listing more, but you get the picture. I agree that safari needs improvements and on the surface opera appears to offer more, but underneath safari is ages ahead of opera.

VanillaSurf is not really a different browser, just a new wrapper for safari like every other so-called "browser" in the app store. Safari and opera mini are the only two actual browsers, each having a distinct rendering engine.

[omikron]

1. Do a tracert on gmail.com from the command line, your data is already being tunneled through 11 servers to get to its intended destination and then sent back. I see no reason to be anymore paranoid about it going through Opera's servers than I do my ISP or google. Someone can always access your data why should I be more worried about opera?

2. SSL is not striped out otherwise it would be unable to load an https: domain, which it can. There's also a little lock at the top of the window to give you that fuzzy feeling. If you are doing online banking over 3G you are already asking for identity theft anyways.

3.) The only thing I find stiff is zooming and navigating pages, the tabs feature is way better integrated, the red themed UI is more attractive and the back and forward buttons actually respond like a real browser. You hit the back arrow and you are on the previous page in under a second. Safari reloads the page everytime you hit the back arrow. I put opera in mobile view mode so I don't have to worry about scrolling the page.

4.) Yep zooming sucks I agree, put it in mobile view and you don't have to zoom.

5.) I haven't experienced this, can you give an example?

[masterq]

If you understand how SSL works you would know that it is impossible not to strip it and still do the compression that opera mini does. That lock that gives you the "fuzzy feeling" is misleading. They tell you that they strip the SSL on their own web site. Basically, they act as the end user for the secure web site you are going to, so they hold the private key. They receive the data, decrypt it, compress, re-encrypt, and send it through to you. That means that the data you thought was securely sent from the site directly to you or vice-versa is actually perfectly visible to anyone at opera that has access to it. That is something I don't trust. It is the same as opera doing a man in the middle attack on you and promising that they aren't actually looking at your private data.

How is doing banking over 3G asking for identity theft? Not that I do it, but it is much safer than doing it over wifi. Can you provide an example on how someone can get access to my 3G traffic? Even if they could sniff it out of the air, it is encrypted. There is no 3G man in the middle attack to get around that. 3G, for now at least, should be almost as safe, if not as safe, as a wired connection.

I guess the UI is personal preference, but it was very unnecessary for them to re-invent the wheel with all the controls when they are built in to the OS. If you are making an iPhone app, make it look and feel like an iPhone app. You are just adding more overhead by making everything over again. It's things like that that make it no surprise to me that they have the lowest market share for a major browser on desktop computers.

[omikron]

Hmmm..... I stand corrected on the SSL, you are right. I guess I did have a misunderstanding of how SSL works.

There are preliminary stage packet sniffers for 3G but I got the terms mixed up, I meant over Wi-Fi as I see many people using their iPhones at my local Starbucks and wonder how many of them are sending private info over that.

I agree, it's a personal preference and I actually like that they designed it so differently, it has a search function, better tabbed browsing, back and forward buttons and a convenient home screen along with a pretty slick looking ui, the option for mobile view and control over your image quality so that if you are only on edge the images still load lightning fast. Zooming is my one and only complaint. The text is just a bunch of illegible characters when zoomed out, but I have to zoom in on Safair to read the text as well so I don't really see the difference.

I have never been an Opera user on the desktop either. I have tried it out every time a new version came out and just thought it was so-so. I think the main problem is lack of an open source platform which could help along the development of the browser by having access to the resources of a developer community the way Mozilla does.

[themodelwarrior]

I should point out that Opera has a significant security flaw.

Opera uses a transcoder server which enables faster response. The problem with this is that SSL is used on the Opera mini Server and everything sent from your phone to the Server is not secure. There is a strong recommendation that you do not use Opera Mini for secure browsing. This was covered in This Week in Security podcast with Leo Leporte and Steve Gibson (episode 126).

The Opera Mini FAQ even notes this short coming although it is only for later versions of Opera Mini and if you are using an older version you are not secure. The current version is version 5. However, the version 3 reference appears to be in reference to a Nokia version and I do not know enough about their numbering system to be confident that the problem doesnt exist for the iPhone version.

Might be worth updating your recommendation with this warning on an errata show.

[bkkkk]

The reason why the iPhone is a joy to browse on is that it renders pages properly and the zooming techniques in Safari, pinch-and-zoom and content-aware zooming. Opera has neither of those. When moving to landscape websites aren't automatically rescaled to fit the screen either so that's no good.
I have gone to multiple sites, including Operas own website and I was suprised to find that they weren't rendered properly. Yes Opera's own site didn't render correctly in Opera's mobile browser, can I get a WTF?
If you care to read a bit more I wrote a short review with some pictures that show how badly Opera renders some pages. Check it out at http://jayblanco.wordpress.com/2010/04/13/opera-mini-for-iphone-god-it-sucks/

I would suggest you try Atomic Web, has all the great things that Safari and Opera have (minus server-side compression) and many more like UserAgent changer, themes, oodles of customization options, full screen mode, and others.

[annieg]

Hey guys, thanks for all the insight. In this review, I focused on the user experience/design elements, which I felt are important to an activity as fundamental as browsing. So I really appreciate it when you all chime in with all the additional detail and nuance - like the SSL/security issues for example - that I can't always address in the episode itself.

And there's also the fact that I am a drooling moron incapable of understanding anything more complex than Safari. Thanks for the reminder, newbie! -Annie G.

[omikron]

And there's also the fact that I am a drooling moron incapable of understanding anything more complex than Safari. Thanks for the reminder, newbie! -Annie G.

LOL, but a cute drooling moron. It's always good to see the Rev3 staff have a good sense of humor when people get on here with their trash can hands. :)

[masterq]

LOL, but a cute drooling moron. It's always good to see the Rev3 staff have a good sense of humor when people get on here with their trash can hands. :)

No trash can hands here (this time at least ;)). i thought the review was very well done... but someone's favorite browser is like their favorite color. everyone has their own opinion on which aspects of the browser are the most important. I like security and reliable rendering, others like speed and more features.

[patrickd]

And there's also the fact that I am a drooling moron incapable of understanding anything more complex than Safari. Thanks for the reminder, newbie! -Annie G.

I'm amused by the fact that it says "newbie" right under your username. Might want to poke someone at Rev3 to fix that for you.

PS: Loved seeing you in Scam School!