Humberto Ramos

[fred]

Do you like the overexaggerated pencils of Humberto Ramos? Why or why not?

As some of you may already know I'm not a fan. X-Men #195 (http://marvel.com/catalog/?id=5778) comes out today and I should be happy to get another issue of X-Men but I can't bring myself to be simply because of the pencils.

I'm really interested in the poll result because I want to see how we feel as a group

[conorkilpatrick]

I like him. Quite a bit. His pencils have crazy kinetic energy and straddle the cartoon-y line without going overboard.

His art is very dynamic.

I've bought books in the past simply because he was drawing them.

[mister-s]

I agree with Conor. I really liked his pencils on Wolverine.

The only reason I'm reading adjectiveless X-Men is because of Ramos.

He has a very telling and distinct style - some originality - and that is what I appreciate the most.

What other work has he done?

[spiffy]

I like him most of the time. His art annoyed me on Wolverine a bit, but I take issue with the way some people draw Wolverine, so I'd say thats more me than him. Some of the art just blew me away though. And his other stuff I've always enjoyed.

[spiffy]

Oh man, I totally forgot he did Crimson. I loved that book. The art on that is amazing. So, a definite like from me.

[jaflanagan]

I wouldn't think I'd like him, but I do. I, for some reason, remember him taking over some spider-man books in the middle of a previously really boring run. Then for those 3-4 issues, spider-man was good. After he was gone, it was not. So I guess I don't normally dig that style, but he's got a certain something I can get behind.

[conorkilpatrick]

What other work has he done?

* Impulse #1–25[6] (1995–1997, DC Comics)
#1–6 collected in Impulse: Reckless Youth
* DV8 #1, 2, 4–7 (1996–1997, Wildstorm)
#1, 2, 4–6 collected in DV8: Neighborhood Threat
* Crimson #1–24 (1998–2001, Cliffhanger)
#1–6 collected in Crimson: Loyalty and Loss
#7–12 collected in Crimson: Heaven & Earth
#13–18 collected in Crimson: Earth Angel
#19–24 collected in Crimson: Redemption
* Out There #1–18 (2001–2003, Cliffhanger)
#1–6 collected in Out There: The Evil Within
* Peter Parker: Spider-Man (Vol. 2) #44–47 (2002, Marvel Comics)
Collected in Spider-Man: Return of the Goblin
* The Spectacular Spider-Man (Vol. 2) #1–10, 17, 18 (2003–2004, Marvel Comics)
#1–5 collected in Spectacular Spider-Man Volume 1: The Hunger
#6–10 collected in Spectacular Spider-Man Volume 2: Countdown
#17, 18 collected in Spectacular Spider-Man Volume 4: Disassembled
* Revelations #1–6 (2005–2006, Dark Horse Comics)
Collected in Revelations
* Wolverine #42–48 (2006, Marvel Comics)
* X-Men #194–196 (2006–2007, Marvel Comics)

[fred]

clearly I am astonished with the voting to this point

[jimski]

I bought Paul Jenkins' "Return of the Goblin" based solely on the Ramos cover, back when I had no idea why the Green Goblin was even alive again. Then I followed him to a book about Venom written by Daniel Way. I would go so far as to say I am a Ramos fan, though it means Fred will never be my imaginary son's godfather.

On some level, I think I like him as a reaction to all of the grimness so ever-present in comics. He and Skottie Young, and even your Wieringos and your Chos, inject an element of fun into a story that you would not get from Deodato. Wolverine's claws through a dude's eye socket just go down easier with a guy like that at the helm. Yes, sometimes Spider-Man looks like he is wearing Mickey Mouse gloves under his costume, but then sometimes I sort of wish he was wearing Mickey Mouse gloves instead of the blood of the Innocent or something.

[iSteve]

I loved Ramos' work in Revelations. Very distinctive.

[fred]

Jimski is officially off my Christmas card list

[mister-s]

Conor, did you get that info off cbdb.com?

[spiffy]

Conor, did you get that info off cbdb.com?

My guess is he got it off of Wikipedia. I saw the same list there.

[piscespaul]

I didn't like his work recently on Wolverine, but I loved Revelations

[conorkilpatrick]

My guess is he got it off of Wikipedia. I saw the same list there.

Bingo.....

[marcushill73]

I like his stuff. He and Chris Bachalo have been interchanging on Uncanny X-Men. Normally I hate art teams transitioning this way, but I love both their styles. No one complains about Joe Mad, his style is similar.

[ekval]

I like Ramos too, though I do agree that there are massive exaggerations to his figures. It is a good distinctive style though and I'm never unhappy to see him doing a book. Don't know if I'd pick up a book just cause he was doing it, but I certainly wouldn't drop one he was on.

[the-dude-abides]

I like him. I like how his Venom looked like a piece of black chewing gum with a thousand shark's teeth stuck to it.
I loved that.

[fred]

Can I vote like 13 or 14 more times?

[will_lund]

Ramos and Jenkins just finished a really good limited last year, called 'Revelations'. It was a very good book, and would have been nothing without the style that Ramos brought to it. I've followed him ever since his work on DV8, and jumped over to Crimson when that started.
Put me on the list of people that will buy a book simply because he did it.
Did anyone else read 'Revelations'?

[jimski]

Can I vote like 13 or 14 more times?

Not goin' the way ya thought, is it? Misjudged the room, did we?

Seriously, though, I think I get where you're coming from, scary as that may be. Sometimes, you just want a chin to look like a chin. Wolverine is a stone cold killer, not Roger Rabbit. What the eff is this??? And so on.

I just like my comics a little more comic every so often. Did anybody else read "The 'Nam" (referenced in this week's Spider-Ham!!!) as a kid? The first year or so was extremely cartoony, as I recall, with the philosophy that it strangely complemented the subject matter. Ramos reminds me of that.

[conorkilpatrick]

I just like my comics a little more comic every so often. Did anybody else read "The 'Nam" (referenced in this week's Spider-Ham!!!) as a kid? The first year or so was extremely cartoony, as I recall, with the philosophy that it strangely complemented the subject matter. Ramos reminds me of that.

One of my childhood friends loved The 'Nam. I used to read his copies. I still can't believe that Marvel published a comic book about Vietnam. And that it was popular.

[fred]

Not goin' the way ya thought, is it? Misjudged the room, did we?

You know what the weird thing is though? 163 people have viewed this thread and only like 15 have voted. So I still don't buy that I have such a drastically minority point of view.

I hope

[jimski]

Oh!: Fred, for what it's worth, it may cheer you to learn that I was reading some sales figures the other day and it sounds like "Wolverine Origins" has lost something like 20,000 orders in the last two months.

[marcushill73]

It has lost 20,000! Could it be Wolverine breaking down crying that put people over the edge? Does anyone out there know if either Way or Dillon are scheduled to continue with this series? Also, how much of Wolverine's origin can a series continue to explore each month.....Next month!: Wolverine goes to a hypnotherapist to reveal even more undiscovered origin stories!

[jimski]

for what it's worth, this is me substantiating my wild claims:

17. WOLVERINE: ORIGINS
04/06 #1 - 182,672
05/06 #2 - 131,522 (-28.0%)
06/06 #3 - 116,058 (-11.8%)
07/06 #4 - 110,830 ( -4.5%)
08/06 #5 - 120,448 ( +8.7%)
09/06 #6 - 101,013 (-16.1%)
10/06 #7 - 103,273 ( +2.2%)
11/06 #8 - 91,585 (-11.3%)
12/06 #9 - 84,733 ( -7.5%)
6 mnth (-27.0%)

[marcushill73]

Wowee! Not a good trend

[fred]

for what it's worth, this is me substantiating my wild claims:

17. WOLVERINE: ORIGINS
04/06 #1 - 182,672
05/06 #2 - 131,522 (-28.0%)
06/06 #3 - 116,058 (-11.8%)
07/06 #4 - 110,830 ( -4.5%)
08/06 #5 - 120,448 ( +8.7%)
09/06 #6 - 101,013 (-16.1%)
10/06 #7 - 103,273 ( +2.2%)
11/06 #8 - 91,585 (-11.3%)
12/06 #9 - 84,733 ( -7.5%)
6 mnth (-27.0%)

I so want to comment on this but my whole not bashing Origins thing has held up for I think about 3 weeks so I'll keep quiet.

I will say however that I am a wearing a huge smile right now. Thanks Jimski you get back on the Christmas card list yet

[marcushill73]

Don't go getting too excited to fast Fred - Marvel might put Daniel Way on something else

[jimski]

I will say however that I am a wearing a huge smile right now. Thanks Jimski you get back on the Christmas card list yet To that, let me add this:

Earlier today, I was pondering why a certain song was stuck in my head all week. I went through each day, minding my own business, yet singing, "streaks on the china.... never mattered before... who cared?... when you drop-kicked your jacket... as you came through the door.... no one glared!... but sometimes, things get turned around and no one's spared!... "

F***! Mister Belvedere!! Fred!!!

I hope you're proud of yourself.

[fred]

that's awesome. Glad I could touch your life.

[fred]

Don't go getting too excited to fast Fred - Marvel might put Daniel Way on something else

I will say, and this isn't shit-talking so it's no violation, almost any other book they put him on could be a book I don't buy

[fred]

F***! Mister Belvedere!! Fred!!!

I hope you're proud of yourself.

There you go Jimski. All brand new and twice as horrible

[kahunablair]

The writing will most likely be awesome. The art an abomination against mankind.

It will look great!
http://image.comicvine.com/uploads/vol/19000/18021/18021-105492-1-runaways-saga_150.jpg
Apparently some people just don't have any taste! ;)

[esophagus]

It will look great!
http://image.comicvine.com/uploads/vol/19000/18021/18021-105492-1-runaways-saga_150.jpg
Apparently some people just don't have any taste! ;)Is that really the art? That's depressing. Runaways is one of my favorite titles, and I don't think I'll keep picking it up if it looks like that.

[labor_days]

It's no less than astounding to me when I hear anyone associate Humberto Ramos with the phrases "good taste" and "good art".

A paradox.

[dave-accampo]

The writing will most likely be awesome. The art an abomination against mankind.

The only reason I'm given pause is because I seem to recall Terry Moore writing a Lady Supreme series back in the 90's. And I didn't like it too much.

That said, Runaways is probably a much better fit.

[mikegraham6]

It's no less than astounding to me when I hear anyone associate Humberto Ramos with the phrases "good taste" and "good art".

A paradox.

i don't think he's that bad...........
.......i just don't think he's that good either

[esophagus]

Anyone know where I can find a script? I've decided I just need to draw my own pictures, and tape over the pages. Stick people are an improvement.

[esophagus]

i don't think he's that bad...........
.......i just don't think he's that good eitherIf the Runaways were an anime TV show aimmed at 9 year olds, and it looked like this, I'd consider calling it quality work.

[labor_days]

The only reason I'm given pause is because I seem to recall Terry Moore writing a Lady Supreme series back in the 90's. And I didn't like it too much.

That said, Runaways is probably a much better fit.

Shhhs. Hush now, Dave. Let us never speak of it again.

[kahunablair]

Is that really the art? That's depressing. Runaways is one of my favorite titles, and I don't think I'll keep picking it up if it looks like that.
That's not the official art for the new series. Ramos did that cover for the one-shot a few months back. It's telling of where the serie's art is headed though.

[fred]

It's no less than astounding to me when I hear anyone associate Humberto Ramos with the phrases "good taste" and "good art".

A paradox.

I just don't get the Ramos thing. I guess if you like frog-people....

[fred]

One more time for good measure

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u116/fredhosley/wolvieJay.gifhttp://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u116/fredhosley/Jay.jpghttp://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u116/fredhosley/emot-barf.gif

[mikegraham6]

see, i always ramos worked on Wolverine, just because the character is so inherently overthetop. but on runaways (and event to a lesser extent, x-men) he just doesn't work. Bit superhero action- yes
books with more than one character- no

[kahunablair]

There is a difference between thinking someone's style is not your cup of tea, and saying that it's horrible.
I never understood why people say that an artist is horrible, just because they don't like his style.

It's just not your thing, that's cool, but don't say it's crap.

EDIT: ... and I didn't see Josh's post.

[fred]

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u116/fredhosley/rogue.gif
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u116/fredhosley/blinky.gif

[esophagus]

There is a difference between thinking someone's style is not your cup of tea, and saying that it's horrible.
I never understood why people say that an artist is horrible, just because they don't like his style.

It's just not your thing, that's cool, but don't say it's crap.

EDIT: ... and I didn't see Josh's post.For the record, that's why I said that about anime. No artist is horrible, they just generally have a niche. I really don't think Runaways, or comics really, is Ramos.

Sorry for bringing it back up, Josh. But I don't think anyone's got Marvel recommends for him past the titles we've mentioned.

[dave-accampo]

Shhhs. Hush now, Dave. Let us never speak of it again.

LOL...ah, could it be that I'm not the only one who bought that...?

[dave-accampo]

Josh is right. No one's going to convince anyone to change their mind on Ramos.

However, I truly believe that I can convince you all that Liefeld is not good.

http://www.markfox.org/images/liefeld_captain_america.jpg



(I kid, of course...:D )

[labor_days]

There is a difference between thinking someone's style is not your cup of tea, and saying that it's horrible.
I never understood why people say that an artist is horrible, just because they don't like his style.

It's just not your thing, that's cool, but don't say it's crap.

EDIT: ... and I didn't see Josh's post.

No, no. It's more then just not my thing. He's horrible. I think Ramos is a bad storyteller.

But let's leave it there as per Josh's suggestion. We'll have plenty of *****ing/praising when Ramos unleashes his atrocities of art in Runaways.

Oh yes. I am looking forward to smacking someone with a gauntlet when that drops. I'm looking forward to it like a Nascar fan looks forward to a collision.

[gungadin]

The writing will most likely be awesome. The art an abomination against mankind.

I liked Ramos in the saga... It matched Alphona, whom I loved... and I like Ramos... So...

But now I'm listening to Josh and shutting up about it.

I can't believe I forgot about Runaways. That's terrible. That's the first place my mind goes with regards to recommending books...

[gungadin]

His style is kinda amazing. There's no one who's really close to him besides Skottie Young, except Young does caricatures whereas Ramos is very... anime or cartoony... Like McGuiness, but smoother. I love him.

[kahunablair]

However, I truly believe that I can convince you all that Liefeld is not good.

Sadly, I have to agree with that comment. Now before people scream "Hypocrite!" let me explain.
Where as it's Ramos' style that people dislike, with Liefeld it's a different animal.
1) The guy has a "hard time" drawing feet and hands. He even admitted as much in an article of Wizard I read when I was a kid.
2) There is a crapload of evidence that he is a Swiper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swipe_%28comics%29).

[jon_samuelson]

Josh is right. No one's going to convince anyone to change their mind on Ramos.

However, I truly believe that I can convince you all that Liefeld is not good.

http://www.markfox.org/images/liefeld_captain_america.jpg



(I kid, of course...:D )

I dunno... That's a pretty high quality circle he's drawn there with Cap's shield.

[esophagus]

I'm... I'm astonished by the results of this poll.

[gungadin]

I dunno... That's a pretty high quality circle he's drawn there with Cap's shield.

That's cuz he swiped it... Ha...

I don't like Liefeld, though. I've tried, but he's too... Sketchy for me. Like he can't decide which line he likes, so he adds them all...

[esophagus]

I dunno... That's a pretty high quality circle he's drawn there with Cap's shield.It's not quite as good as that one he drew for Caps massive boobs.

[luthor]

Liefield is a master...but only at drawing pockets, belts and massive shoulder pads.

I don't mind Ramos on somethings and then there are others that make me want to gouge my eyes out. Keep him on over the toppy books and we're all good

[mister-s]

That Cap is tragically bad. I'm weeping in earnest.

[conorkilpatrick]

I'm... I'm astonished by the results of this poll.

The minority is indeed vocal.

[esophagus]

The minority is indeed vocal.His X-Men is standable. It's not bad enough for me to drop the books, but I wouldn't call it good either. That Runaways picture on the other hand... I've never seen a style suit a book less.

[cam-]

SO I voted Nay mainly because, like Labor, I don't think he's a very good 'storyteller' it's the same problem I have with Bachalo.

Sometimes I don't mind an individual panel or two, but as a whole with their art I find myself saying "wait...what's going on?"

my .02

[labor_days]

Bachalo and Ramos mentioned together. An overflow of incoherency.

Gah. Thread makes me want to stab out my eyes.

[cam-]

Yeah the issue of X-men they recently did together just...ugh...not for me.

(but then, I like Silvestri. ;))

[tad]

That Runaways cover looks great. Can't wait for the trades to catch up.


I enjoy distinctive art styles and usually the mix of cartoon exaggeration with drama is no problem to me.

I read Revelations and thought is was good but there are times the style did not work for me. It was a straight crime procedural so the cartoon aspect wasn't a great fit for me, even though he modified his style. But the world of capes is already a fantasy land and the exaggeration seems in keeping with it, especially when the story features young characters.

Ramos is an excellent artist who creates real acting in still drawings, strong poses that convey mood, great rendering skills and a strong eye for structure. But because he has such an extreme style when compared to the more realistic, I can see how he wouldn't be to everyone's taste.

Van Gogh and Rembrandt are both awesome but you're not going to mix up their styles. Both were excellent artists.

And your tastes will change over the years.

[gungadin]

I love Chris Bachalo. He's come a long way since his work on Sandman, and his style is very distinct and faskinating to me...

[fred]

The minority is indeed vocal.

and the majority is high or blind. ;)

It should be noted that most of the poll results are from when this started a while back. Can we clear and restart? I think we'd see different results. I don't feel as lonely in hating him as I once did.

[conorkilpatrick]

Can we clear and restart? I think we'd see different results. I don't feel as lonely in hating him as I once did.

I don't think we would. Read the comments from today. Most of the negativity comes from only a handful of people.

[fred]

I don't think we would. Read the comments from today. Most of the negativity comes from only a handful of people.

I just did. It looks pretty even today. I've got 5-5.

[conorkilpatrick]

I just did. It looks pretty even today. I've got 5-5.

Hence the vocal minority part. The majority is silent. I, for one, have no desire to have the Ramos debate again. He gets the thumbs up from the iFanboys.

[fred]

Hence the vocal minority part. The majority is silent. I, for one, have no desire to have the Ramos debate again. He gets the thumbs up from the iFanboys.

Couldn't I say that the majority that dislike him are choosing to remain silent?

Napoleon, like anyone can even know that.

[gungadin]

Couldn't I say that the majority that dislike him are choosing to remain silent?

Napoleon, like anyone can even know that.

It's like politics. People very rarely swing to one side or the other entirely. There's TONS of middle ground and people who don't speak up because it's just "meh" to them.

Think of it in terms of Harry Potter. About 10% of the wizarding community (the Harry/Dumbledore/Order of the Phoenix is actively "equality now" (Muggle borns, Muggles, and Purebloods should be treated equal) while another 10% (the Voldemort/Slytherin/rich families/Death Eaters) are about "Purity supreme." The remaining 80% just stay as free-riders, having ideas, but not actively pursuing them.

I think that makes sense... :(

[fred]

that may well be. I'm just questioning the concept of a "silent majority".

[jaflanagan]

that may well be. I'm just questioning the concept of a "silent majority".

If you're reading this, and don't post, but like or don't like Ramos, speak up.

Anyone....

[six-gun]

How did this thread pop back up? :confused:

[gungadin]

If you're reading this, and don't post, but like or don't like Ramos, speak up.

I thought you were going to say "If you're reading this, and don't post... you suck at life" or something. It made me almost laugh...

[gungadin]

How did this thread pop back up? :confused:

I think it came up in the weekly comics discussion cuz he did the art to last week's New X-Men (which I sadly haven't read... *tear*)

[conorkilpatrick]

that may well be. I'm just questioning the concept of a "silent majority".

The vote is 20-5 in favor of Ramos.

The people speaking up for the most are against Ramos.

The silent majority is pretty clear.

[six-gun]

I think it came up in the weekly comics discussion cuz he did the art to last week's New X-Men (which I sadly haven't read... *tear*)

Ahh, I see

[itsbecca]

If you're reading this, and don't post, but like or don't like Ramos, speak up.

Anyone....

For the record, I didn't post because I didn't feel like defending myself in anyway whatsoever. But I like Ramos and voted yay. Just for the record.

[gungadin]

For the record, I didn't post because I didn't feel like defending myself in anyway whatsoever. But I like Ramos and voted yay. Just for the record.

Jest: Free rider much? :p

[kahunablair]

Best part is, I was the one arguing today for him, and I didn't even vote till just now!

[humphrey-lee]

I've dropped every last title he's come on that I was buying at the time. This saddens me for the future of Runaways.

[hudsonphillips]

I was not familiar with Ramos's work until today, actually.

I've been wanting to jump onto an X book and I'm really enjoying Messiah Complex... but I just got around to reading New X-Men 44 and I thought it was the best issue so far. And Ramos's artwork is my favorite in the series by far. I really love his style.

And I do read Runaways, so the fact that he's coming on there has me very very excited as I'm not a fan of Michael Ryan's stuff.

[paper]

I'm not a fan of Michael Ryan's stuff.

Is anybody? Yuck. Coloring's even worse.

[gungadin]

Is anybody? Yuck. Coloring's even worse.

I think it's alright. It matches the feel of Runaways... but it makes the book feel real frakkin dense... Which Runaways isn't...

[jimski]

I hereby give it up for Ryan and Ramos alike. I wouldn't describe myself as a Ryan enthusiast, but when he was announced as Runaways' artist and I saw his work, I thought, "Hm... this may turn out okay after all."

Now, I've actually bought books I wouldn't have otherwise because of Ramos. Paul Jenkins books. Daniel Way books.

[labor_days]

Eehh. I think Ryan is Ok. He's very boring. Once the kids went back in time, Ryan's pencils and the color palette fit a little better.

[esophagus]

Ryan is good. Again not great, but a lot higher on the list than Ramos.

[euchre0]

I used to like him, but now I can't stand him. don't know why, exactly, but I avoid him. Bachalo, too. They are almost the same thing to me. Blah. To me they aren't even cartoony, but much more like Picasso weidness.

[cam-]

Hmmm 26 - 13 now...

[esophagus]

What was the vote before? 21 - 5? It looks like all the haters are coming out of hiding. Woooo.

[gungadin]

Maybe we'll have a good fight on now...

Or the people who are losing started a ton of new accounts just to boost the vote...

(There needs to be a laughing smiley...)

[fred]

this is an old thread to. I think when it came back it was like 18-4. Now, I'm no mathematician, but it looks like our ranks are swelling a bit.

[six-gun]

this is an old thread to. I think when it came back it was like 18-4. Now, I'm no mathematician, but it looks like our ranks are swelling a bit.

My opinion of Ramos has changed greatly since his Wolverine work.

I voted Nay

[kahunablair]

Or the people who are losing started a ton of new accounts just to boost the vote...
(There needs to be a laughing smiley...)
I feel REALLY bad, because that was the first thing I thought of when I saw that big of a jump...

[diabhol]

Can't stand Ramos' art. Worse than Skottie Young's. Hate the exaggerration, hate the fact that you could barely tell Iceman from Cannonball in X-Men. Hate the fact that nobody looks like an adult. Hate the fact that none of the Marauders looked threatening 'cause they were all cuddly anime teddy bears. Hated Wolverine's neck looking as thick as his forearms.

And yet I still intend to pick up Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane, 'cause Terry Moore is just that awesome.

[conorkilpatrick]

And yet I still intend to pick up Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane, 'cause Terry Moore is just that awesome.

You mean Runaways.

[six-gun]

You mean Runaways.

On your Jim McCann podcast he messes up and said he was doing SMLMJ and didn't catch/correct himself.

That's probably where the confusion is coming from

[gungadin]

And yet I still intend to pick up Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane, 'cause Terry Moore is just that awesome.

I'm thinking about picking up this book JUST for Adrian Alphona's art.... And that's a different issue...

[diabhol]

You mean Runaways.

Quite right.

All the more reason, really. :) Runaways is a great book.

[r0blaw]

Hated Wolverine's neck looking as thick as his forearms.

That was one of the things I really liked about his work on Wolverine. No one seems to draw him being 5'4 and stocky as hell. That's the way I always remember him being . I voted yay for Ramos today. I like his work. It's nice to have a variety of art stlyes in comics. I really love guys like Aja, Cassady, Darwyn Cooke, etc. I like Skottie Young too. I think Ramos is a good fit for Runaways and I wish he or Skottie would stay on New X-men