Episode 273: The Old TV Debate [Discussion]

[tokenuser]

The Old TV Debate
Tuesday, September 21st, 2010 – running time 50:25

This week on Diggnation, we get into the ol' TV debate! And, because why not, crazy cocaine infused Tweets from Paris Hilton! The top stories of Digg.com include a new solar system discovery, Roku cuts prices for a possible Apple TV upgrade, Borders cuts e-Reader prices as Kindle goes to Staples, and deep fried... wait for it... BEER!

Watch or Download Here (http://revision3.com/diggnation/decepticocks)

[tnvwboy]

I have to side with Alex on the TV debate more than Kevin. I'm sure I'd pay way more per month if I paid 99 cents per show. Additionally some shows are still not available anywhere else but cable/dish (Scripps Networks for example).

I'd love to ditch my cable provider today but the bottom line is that the existing alternatives are not yet good enough to completely replace cable/dish TV.

That doesn't mean they won't in the future, but I'm guessing we are still a couple years out at least.

The Roku, AppleTV, Boxee, GoogleTV (maybe) are all cool but they aren't enough yet. Until the networks figure out how to make enough money to make it worth while or enough consumers walk away from the old model (currently a minority) the networks are going to focus on traditional models first and keep experimenting with the new one.

[grahamhancock]

I'm hoping that something, maybe the onset of these new devices, will get Cable/Satellite providers to finally offer 'a la carte' channels.

If I could go to Comcast and pay $7.00/mo for ESPN, $7/mo for the Discovery Channel, etc. that would be great (I can get all the major networks ABC NBC CBS & FOX over the air.) I know this is mostly a pipe dream since Cable profits would probably plummet, but I would love some type of a la carte channel service.

I feel like I pay way too much for cable to only watch 4-5 channels regularly. I'd rather pay for what I'm watching and not some lump sum.

[opitica]

Kevin has too naive a view on the entertainment industry, production costs, and is way overbearing on his idea of how TV will be presented in the future. Alex countered perfectly by saying that big budget shows could not exist in an a la carte market, even with massive amounts of viewers. Other than that, loved the loose and chaotic episode talking about topics that they were somewhat passionate about.

[frankiethewaffle]

Kevins' opinion is not far off at all. I pay $70 a month for cable only, that is how it is billed. Basic Cable. For what I watch on my TV I am being ripped. I like MAYBE 20 channels and only watch them for a time half of what I pay for.

I like the networks, minimally, which I can get for free. Otherwise I only watch the HD channels, Not the digital channels or the original analog channels. Why do I pay for the bandwidth that I do not consume? The bandwidth comes from the same cable that provides my internet. I am paying more for TV and using more internet. I would swap payment for cost on both for better internet and any one of these set-top-boxes.

Until recently when the cable company battles, sold to us suckers, allowed me to watch Comedy Central and about 5+ other channels. I watched the Daily Show and Colbert Report on the net as they offered HD but my Cable Company didn't. If that was available on Roku or iTV why wouldn't I dump cable for everything that I want to watch.

OK, the 20 channels that I watch against the hundreds that I don't use, The WE CHANNEL, BET, MTV, VH1 whatever they are it doesn't matter. I know what I want to watch. Why should I pay for those channels I don't watch. If I have the choice and someone tells me to watch a certain show, I would buy it at $0.99. If I choose buy the season.

Oh and say now I pay for season passes for certain shows, but not channels. The production companies have a lot more money to make for my subscriptions to shows than channels. at my savings as well. AT LEAST breaks even. VERY LEAST.

Oh and if companies like Hulu will use there same business model. Cable Companies have nothing to contend. Needless inflation by Govt. be damned.

I agree with Kevin. If this comes through like HD TV did, it took time. But more people buy HD TVs, if there are any CRTs are available at all. This and these boxes working with HD TVs, makes the Cable Companies business model obsolete. It will take a while for the non tech equipped, but so did HD. Kevins right on this one.

[hellomoto]

This is a big debate in my group of friends. I agree with Alex that there needs to be specific channels you pay for instead of shows. They're trying to do the whole iTunes model with shows, and I will never pay per episode for a show I want to watch, but I'm willing to pay for each channel at a monthly cost.

What cable companies should be doing is allowing more choice to consumers so they could have a package that would allow something like this:

Package #1
- Up to 10 Channels of your choice $20 a month
Package #2
- Up to 25 Channels of your choice $45 a month
Package #3
- Up to 50 Channels of your choice $75 a month
Package #4
- Up to 100 Channels of your choice $100 a month

Sort of how internet speed packages work. So you could have other packages that would fall in line more with how current cable subscriptions work so the people who don't like the a la carte package can opt out of that.

The pricing is obviously not realistic, but imagine having the ability to only have shows like Science Channel, Travel, Cartoon Network, Spike, Comedy Central, etc that you can choose from. Obviously it would be a bummer if you only subscribe to 10 channels but want more, but that's why there should be multiple choices for how many channels you can subscribe to.

Also, make it so if you have online access, you have the ability to change a couple of those 10 channels in any given month, or 3 if you have the 25 channel setup. Limit it to the 2 channel changes per month so as to not let people break the system and keep changing their channels anytime they wanted. That would allow for some flexibility to customers.

Anyway, just throwing out some ideas I had for Alex's idea. Anyone else wanna chime in on this?

[black67]

What was the name of the song playing during the FilmRiot Ford Fiesta promo?

[iccanui]

2 lines....


Best episode in a while.

/smileyfart

[cyborggold]

I think Montana just tried turning her face inside out.... im a little bit scared by your dog Alex. (just after 43 minutes into the show)

[mcdaddy]

I'm shocked in the TV debate nobody mentioned Hulu or Hulu Plus. They have a great business model of free and cheap pricing with commercials for on demand. You can cruise thru shows via network or show type or alphabetical. They have a great model for the future.

That said, Hulu, and others, simply need more content. Per Kevin's point, over the next couple of years the model will mature and you will get more. However, Alex does have a point as well. I remember T.V. before cable, and even black and white tv. As an IT guy I love on demand streaming, but I also like sitting down with my DirecTV because it doesn't feel like I'm at work. It will probably take about 10 years before we see a true paradigm shift towards mostly on-demand including ala cart.

[xfuuey]

altho it's cool for kevin to not want to boast his new car, it makes me curious what it is now. dunebuggy looking my ass. meaning... Audio R8 maybe?1?
http://www.tunedautos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/audi-r8-tuning.jpg

brag all you want if you have a car like that, imo. use a tad discretion with your gloating & it should help decrease getting slammed as a rich douche

[firestone500]

I just heard that diggnation was ending after the end of the year...

WTF is going on..

How can the flagship of revision3 end????

This can't be happening.

[wetnap]

Kevin and co are oddly inconsistent with this issue. Ala cart? How about alac cart web browsing..aka pay walls? Sounds good now? How would ala cart revision 3 be? Even if you charged 25 cents a download it would put many people off as they have to always factor if its worth it in the back of their mind. If you had to pay even 5 cents to browse a web page you would be far less adventurous. Its all bad.

Plus as said, the economics just don't work. Lost's pilot cost 10-14 million dollars. Thats a bet, not paid for by viewers. If you had to do the promotional leg work to make a 14 million dollar pilot pay for itself you would never get off the ground at all. If the studio took half of that 1 dollar they'd need 30 million viewers to break even. and of course that is not factoring the cost of covering money loser/canceled shows. So in fact it would take far far more than that by a wide margin. Plus just how many shows can you really promote enough that there are viewers from the start. Essentially this model requires people show up in huge numbers from day one, otherwise it just doesn't work. Dvd sales and such only work because the network has time and advertisement money to build audience and word of mouth. Without that slow build word of mouth ala cart is like releasing each tv show straight to dvd in a way where most will simply get burried.

Plus many smaller shows that probably take forever to break even or even lose money are there to add value to a channel as a whole. The whole of a channel is the sum of its parts, not a single show. You could say that about the entire cable/sat package actually.

[xfuuey]

This can't be happening.

Yes it can....& it is. Get over it. :cool:

[silentspyder]

I just heard that diggnation was ending after the end of the year...

WTF is going on..

How can the flagship of revision3 end????

This can't be happening.

They've been doing it for years and they want to move on. On a sideish note if things keep going the way they're going with digg v4 (I hope it bounces back), then the timing coincidentally works out.

[firestone500]

Well its a good thing I have lost 75 percent of my heart for rev3 when the whole Jim Louderback switchover happened and I lost all my favorite shows on here.

As soon as they went from fun podcasts to big budget adrevenue building shows, It started going down hill for me... God I miss the Gazette. I hate that we will never see the conclusion to the Fruit club episode!

Diggnation, trs, diggreel, and scam school are the only reasons I come here anymores. But Revision3 was built around Diggnation... It seems strange to see the show that started it all go away.

Then again, nothing has been the same since Sarah Lane, Martin Sargent, Jay Spedain, David Randolf and the rest got fired/layed off/ quit.

I guess this is what you call a slow goodbye. Little by little plucking away at what I loved about rev3 until nothing is left.....

Still, slowly killing my once favorite site.. It hurts. If only it went away all at once, maybe the pain would end faster. Man, I miss the days when Revision3 was the answer to all us TechTV fans.

[onurersel]

this new tv model that kevin is idealizing is a great distribution channel in its core. indie producers can use this to sell their content directly to their costumers without support of a tv network. same model used by apple on appstore going to happen in tv world.

[wetnap]

well the new model is failing if revision 3 is hacking shows away left and right:(

[nexus010]

haha the smilie farts had me nearly spitting out my beer!