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View Full Version : The Brubaker Paradox: Authors, Characters, and Reader Loyalty


jimski
02-16-2007, 06:28 PM
How's that for a thread title?

There's something that strikes me as weird, and it comes to mind often when I'm visiting the various iFanboy sites. Every once in a while the fellows will, for example, name X-Factor the pick of the week, and in so doing they'll talk at some length about how excellent Peter David is on the book. Every time I hear this, I definitely agree, but I can't help thinking, "I'll bet almost none of these X-Factor fans has even browsed an issue of Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man."

To put it another way, quoting my post in another thread:

I find it interesting that so many people say, "Brubaker Brubaker Brubaker! Daredevil Cap! Criminal! Brubaker! WOOO!" (Maybe not exactly that. I'm paraphrasing.) Those same people, though, tend to also say, "Uncanny X-Men is a mess," and literally seem to have blocked out the fact that their golden god is writing it.

How can a writer be so beloved-- and indeed so good-- while simultaneously also putting out something that drives the very same readers crazy? And why would the readers not stick with it if they love the author so much? Especially given that they would buy anything some character was in "out of obligation"??

Does not compute.

It seems so counterintuitive to me that one would follow a character no matter what chucklehead is steering the ship, but one would not read a title being written by a beloved author, probably also based on the character. But even I'm not immune:

"I think Brian Bendis might be my favorite writer in the biz. Powers, Avengers, Ultimate Spidey, you name it. I can't wait each month."

"Hey, he's writing Ultimate Power, too."

"That's nice. That's very nice for him."

mikegraham6
02-16-2007, 06:38 PM
i try mainly to follow writers rather than characters, pretty much because i've found that characters will disappoint you more than writers will (but it has been known to happen)
i found many an interesting book by doing this. using brubaker as an example: i started by reading his x-men deadly genesis, i was impressed and this lead me to daredevil (admittely i was reading it when bendis was on it but i stuck with it because of deadly genesis) and this lead me to sleeper, which so far, has been the best work i've read by (with criminal a close second)

i think the way that the industry is structured now (being more writer centric) more people have begun to follow writers over individual characters

conorkilpatrick
02-16-2007, 06:50 PM
How's that for a thread title?

There's something that strikes me as weird, and it comes to mind often when I'm visiting the various iFanboy sites. Every once in a while the fellows will, for example, name X-Factor the pick of the week, and in so doing they'll talk at some length about how excellent Peter David is on the book. Every time I hear this, I definitely agree, but I can't help thinking, "I'll bet almost none of these X-Factor fans has even browsed an issue of Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man."

I have read and loved a lot of Peter David - Incredible Hulk, Supergirl, Aquaman, Young Justice, the old X-Factor, the new X-Factor. I gave Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man a try and loved the first issue. Then issue two - two! - threw me straight into that The Others crossover crap and I dropped all non-Ultimate Spider-Man books.

I find it interesting that so many people say, "Brubaker Brubaker Brubaker! Daredevil Cap! Criminal! Brubaker! WOOO!" (Maybe not exactly that. I'm paraphrasing.) Those same people, though, tend to also say, "Uncanny X-Men is a mess," and literally seem to have blocked out the fact that their golden god is writing it.

How can a writer be so beloved-- and indeed so good-- while simultaneously also putting out something that drives the very same readers crazy? And why would the readers not stick with it if they love the author so much? Especially given that they would buy anything some character was in "out of obligation"??

Does not compute.

It seems so counterintuitive to me that one would follow a character no matter what chucklehead is steering the ship, but one would not read a title being written by a beloved author, probably also based on the character.

I think what it boils down to is - nobody's perfect. Sometimes, a golden god throws up an airball. Or, at least, an airball at the hoop that is my personal taste. But I'll give every writer I like a try, at least. I tried Uncanny, didn't like it. I tried *shudder* Ultimate Power, didn't like it (but that was mostly because the art was so offensive, not beacuse of the writing). Hell, I tried all of Alan Moore's America's Best Comics and was eventually left only buying Top Ten.

jurassicalien
02-16-2007, 06:51 PM
I've only recently begun to follow writers, but I only follow them to the books I might read anyway. For example, I'm probably continue to buy A. X-men, unless say Way takes over, but for the most part I'll probably keep reading it, because Whedon is great, if Whedon started writing say...Ultimate Fantastic Four, then I probably would pick it up, because I've been around UFF here and there.

But if Whedon was moving on to, Ghost Rider, I probably wouldn't pick it up, because I have no interest in Ghost Rider anyway.

I find it will depend on the writer AND the character they're writing.

I don't read Runaways (I plan to...but I'm not yet), so when it was announced Whedon was doing, I just though "Oh...cool."

marcushill73
02-16-2007, 06:52 PM
Following on from what Jimski said in relation to Brubaker's work on Uncanny X-Men, there are several differences with this title compared to other Marvel projects he is working on.

Daredevil has a loyal fan-base with Bendis and Maleev. I think most people would have continued with the series out of loyalty to where the character had been. Imagine people's surprise when they found out Brubaker and Lark were actually doing a great job!

Captain America seems more that a ground-swell movement. People have gradually picked up on the book post Winter Soldier. Steve Epting, who was already doing a fantastic job over at CrossGen has brought considerable weight to Captain America.

Criminal with Sean Phillips obviously has continuing support after Brubakers successful run on Sleeper. I just finished reading Sleeper vol. 4: The Long Way Home and am still digesting conclusion to this story. Criminal isn't quite there yet, but give it time.

So where does this leave Uncanny X-Men?

The fact that Brubaker has commenced his run on this title with the ambitious 12-part story "The Rise and The Fall of Shiar Empire" creates several problems for readers:
1. It doesn't lend itself to being easily accessible. Also, this story has not been scheduled to be collected either in it whole or in part in TPB format.
2. This is series artist Billy Tan's moment to shine, but his work schedule on this title has been sporadic at best: one issue he is there, the next his isn't? All other titles Brubaker is working on have steadfast art contributions by Lark, Phillips and Epting.
3. Uncanny X-Men has a history of being "patchy". Perhaps readers are "waiting and seeing" to see what Brubaker can do before jumping on the X-men band-wagon. I must confess, that is what I am currently doing.

There's my two cents.
Cheers,
Marcus

conorkilpatrick
02-16-2007, 07:00 PM
Daredevil has a loyal fan-base with Bendis and Maleev. I think most people would have continued with the series out of loyalty to where the character had been. Imagine people's surprise when they found out Brubaker and Lark were actually doing a great job!

Sales went up when Brubaker took over Daredevil.

conorkilpatrick
02-16-2007, 07:10 PM
Brubaker Sales Figures (September 2006):

UNCANNY X-MEN
09/01 #398 - 112,744
09/02 #412 - 85,261
09/03 #430 - 94,165
09/04 #448 - 94,708
======
09/05 #464 - 85,885 ( -2.0%)
10/05 #465 - 84,271 ( -1.9%)
11/05 #466 - 82,825 ( -1.7%)
12/05 #467 - 81,282 ( -1.9%)
01/06 #468 - 79,808 ( -1.8%)
02/06 #469 - 79,039 ( -1.0%)
03/06 #470 - 79,389 ( +0.4%)
03/06 #471 - 78,286 ( -1.4%)
04/06 #472 - 79,157 ( +1.1%)
05/06 #473 - 79,335 ( +0.2%)
06/06 #474 - 78,140 ( -1.5%)
07/06 #475 - 106,037 (+35.7%) - Brubaker starts
07/06 #476 - 92,154 (-13.1%)
08/06 #477 - 89,225 ( -3.2%)
09/06 #478 - 89,850 ( +0.7%)

CAPTAIN AMERICA
09/01 #47 - 35,410
09/02 #6 - 63,011
09/03 #17 - 43,295
09/04 #31 - 37,128
======
09/05 #10 - 52,609 ( +17.9%)
10/05 #11 - 45,162 ( -14.2%)
11/05 #12 - 45,038 ( -0.3%)
12/05 #13 - 44,954 ( -0.2%)
01/05 —
02/06 #14 - 44,041 ( -0.2%)
02/06 #15 - 43,350 ( -1.6%)
03/06 #16 - 44,717 ( +3.2%)
04/06 #17 - 45,541 ( +1.8%)
05/06 #18 - 46,740 ( +2.6%)
06/06 #19 - 47,315 ( +1.2%)
07/06 #20 - 47,357 ( +0.1%)
08/06 —
09/06 #21 - 49,050 ( +3.6%)
09/06 #22 - 82,230 ( +67.6%) - (Includes variant cover sales)

DAREDEVIL
09/01 #25 - 51,537
09/02 #37 - 52,027
09/03 #51 - 59,636
09/04 #65 - 56,547
======
09/05 #77 - 45,945 ( -1.0%)
10/05 #78 - 45,071 ( -1.9%)
11/05 #79 - 44,250 ( -1.8%)
12/05 #80 - 43,309 ( -2.1%)
01/06 #81 - 44,252 ( +2.2%)
02/06 #82 - 53,058 (+19.9%) - Brubaker starts
03/06 #83 - 46,804 (-11.8%)
04/06 #84 - 47,123 ( +0.7%)
05/06 #85 - 47,899 ( +1.6%)
06/06 #86 - 48,280 ( +0.8%)
07/06 #87 - 51,989 ( +7.7%)
08/06 #88 - 50,554 ( -2.8%)
09/06 #89 - 55,481 ( +9.7%)

kwok_talk
02-16-2007, 07:20 PM
Brubaker Sales Figures (September 2006):

UNCANNY X-MEN
09/01 #398 - 112,744
09/02 #412 - 85,261
09/03 #430 - 94,165
09/04 #448 - 94,708
======
09/05 #464 - 85,885 ( -2.0%)
10/05 #465 - 84,271 ( -1.9%)
11/05 #466 - 82,825 ( -1.7%)
12/05 #467 - 81,282 ( -1.9%)
01/06 #468 - 79,808 ( -1.8%)
02/06 #469 - 79,039 ( -1.0%)
03/06 #470 - 79,389 ( +0.4%)
03/06 #471 - 78,286 ( -1.4%)
04/06 #472 - 79,157 ( +1.1%)
05/06 #473 - 79,335 ( +0.2%)
06/06 #474 - 78,140 ( -1.5%)
07/06 #475 - 106,037 (+35.7%) - Brubaker starts
07/06 #476 - 92,154 (-13.1%)
08/06 #477 - 89,225 ( -3.2%)
09/06 #478 - 89,850 ( +0.7%)

CAPTAIN AMERICA
09/01 #47 - 35,410
09/02 #6 - 63,011
09/03 #17 - 43,295
09/04 #31 - 37,128
======
09/05 #10 - 52,609 ( +17.9%)
10/05 #11 - 45,162 ( -14.2%)
11/05 #12 - 45,038 ( -0.3%)
12/05 #13 - 44,954 ( -0.2%)
01/05 —
02/06 #14 - 44,041 ( -0.2%)
02/06 #15 - 43,350 ( -1.6%)
03/06 #16 - 44,717 ( +3.2%)
04/06 #17 - 45,541 ( +1.8%)
05/06 #18 - 46,740 ( +2.6%)
06/06 #19 - 47,315 ( +1.2%)
07/06 #20 - 47,357 ( +0.1%)
08/06 —
09/06 #21 - 49,050 ( +3.6%)
09/06 #22 - 82,230 ( +67.6%) - (Includes variant cover sales)

DAREDEVIL
09/01 #25 - 51,537
09/02 #37 - 52,027
09/03 #51 - 59,636
09/04 #65 - 56,547
======
09/05 #77 - 45,945 ( -1.0%)
10/05 #78 - 45,071 ( -1.9%)
11/05 #79 - 44,250 ( -1.8%)
12/05 #80 - 43,309 ( -2.1%)
01/06 #81 - 44,252 ( +2.2%)
02/06 #82 - 53,058 (+19.9%) - Brubaker starts
03/06 #83 - 46,804 (-11.8%)
04/06 #84 - 47,123 ( +0.7%)
05/06 #85 - 47,899 ( +1.6%)
06/06 #86 - 48,280 ( +0.8%)
07/06 #87 - 51,989 ( +7.7%)
08/06 #88 - 50,554 ( -2.8%)
09/06 #89 - 55,481 ( +9.7%)

Umm…yeah. Can you go ahead and put that in graph form for us and make copies for us to distribute to the Board of Directors?

Just kidding. Wow, where the heck did you go to get those figures?

conorkilpatrick
02-16-2007, 07:24 PM
Umm…yeah. Can you go ahead and put that in graph form for us and make copies for us to distribute to the Board of Directors?

Just kidding. Wow, where the heck did you go to get those figures?

The Pulse does a periodic sales analysis. It's fascinating.

jimski
02-16-2007, 07:59 PM
I can't stop looking at sales figures. Like TV ratings, they add an element of hope and worry to following my favorite stories even though I'm not sure what's being measured actually means anything. (see: Spider-Girl, continued non-readership of)

Uncanny X-Men reads like some kind of thought experiment or bet. Take a street-level writer with a head for realism and dare him, "You get to write the X-Men, but not with the street-level Bryan Singer sensibility. Your team will be 80% scrubs. And the X-Men won't be in a third of the issues. And it's in space. And Professor X will be there, but not psychic and walking and he'll get locked up by space birds halfway through the story. And you can't use the letter 'D'."

And still I read. Hey, it's Ed Brubaker! Guaranteed payoff, right? Right?

I'd probably read Ghost Rider if Joss Whedon wrote it. I'm interested enough in him to have seen Wonder Woman, a character who means nothing to me personally.

fred
02-16-2007, 08:11 PM
I'm not really sure how to begin this.

I've bought every issue of Brubaker's Uncanny. I've yet to read a single one. That's why I don't talk about it. There's a good reason though. I traditionally dislike the space based X-Men stories. I hate the Starjammers, the Shia'ar(sp?), the Brood, all that shit. Also, strike 2 is that it's a 12 issue arc. That's a long frigging story stretched out over a long time. I'd rather read it all at once. So I'm waiting until it's done.

Almost any other writer I wouldn't do that for. Brubaker is the man. I trust him.

marcushill73
02-16-2007, 10:05 PM
Conor, thanks for the sales figures. I just love data, REALLY!
Fred, I agree with you 100%, I think I do dislike X-Men's space operas more than the Brood stories. But they are both pretty tiresome. So why would Brubaker start his tenure on Uncanny X-Men with a space opera story? Is he just seeing what he can get away with?

I cannot say I Have enjoyed John Watson's cover art. I am looking forward to this being storyline being over.

Marcus

conorkilpatrick
02-16-2007, 10:21 PM
So why would Brubaker start his tenure on Uncanny X-Men with a space opera story? Is he just seeing what he can get away with?

He likes the "X-Men in space" stories, according to interviews.

humphrey-lee
02-16-2007, 11:07 PM
Not every writer can put out gold, it just happens. But the thing of it is, I've read pretty much 80-90% of everything Brubaker's done, and Uncanny is the only time he's left me disappointed. Typically the man puts out nothing but A (and sometimes high B) grade quality. And he's produced more all time classic stories on books such as Sleeper, Scene of the Crime, Gotham Central, etc, that more writers have ever had even just "above average" tales.

Right now I think the only guy out there who puts out the same consistent level of quality (and for a while put out more) is BKV. But there's also a lot of guys that have that "when they're on, they're on" kind of thing going, so you can't help but try something of theirs to see how it turns out. PAD is a good example. X-FACTOR, for one, is one of the ten best books I buy, month in and month out, while his FALLEN ANGEL is arguably one of my twenty. But I tried FNSM, and I think it's an abomination of a comic. I honestly don't know how anyone reads it. But it happens. Sometimes someone tries an approach so radical, it just doesn't work (look at Ellis and Morrison) but when it does work it's brilliant so you can't help but give everything they do a shot.

The thing that disgusts me are the guys that have put out nothing but dreck, and somehow still manage to not only get work, but on high profile titles. Or, almost even worse, guys who have indeed put out some really classic material, but have lost their touch or have settled into some hackery and continue to just get by on their past glories (I'm looking at you Loeb).

unnamedfrenchguy
02-16-2007, 11:21 PM
Umm…yeah. Can you go ahead and put that in graph form for us and make copies for us to distribute to the Board of Directors?

Just kidding. Wow, where the heck did you go to get those figures?

"Mmmm.. Yeah. You see, we're putting the coversheets on all TPS reports now before they go out. Did you see the memo about this?"

pv_2
02-16-2007, 11:34 PM
Sales went up when Brubaker took over Daredevil.

And on Cap, as the numberss you posted showed, even before the big jump for the CW crossover. Reading the sales numbers on a regular basis is indeed interesting, especially how downward trends are the norm - which is what makes what Brubaker has done more impressive.

Improving sales (even by seemingly small amounts) without benefit of relaunch/event/etc. is very rare, from what I've seen.

acomicbookgirl
02-16-2007, 11:36 PM
I'm not really familiar with Brubaker. Uncanny X-men is the only stuff I read of his.. I like it so far.. :)

humphrey-lee
02-16-2007, 11:46 PM
I'm not really familiar with Brubaker. Uncanny X-men is the only stuff I read of his.. I like it so far.. :)

I can't help but say his stuff is mostly brilliant, so if you can find the cash to check his material, you really really should. Sleeper and Gotham Central are amongst the ten best things I've read thus far this decade. The man just knows how to craft great stories and work wonders with his characters.

fred
02-16-2007, 11:50 PM
I'm not really familiar with Brubaker. Uncanny X-men is the only stuff I read of his.. I like it so far.. :)

Captain America
Daredevil
Criminal
hopefully Uncanny(see my last post)

awesome

I've yet to read Sleeper or Scene of the Crime

pv_2
02-17-2007, 12:05 AM
Captain America
Daredevil
Criminal
hopefully Uncanny(see my last post)

awesome

I've yet to read Sleeper or Scene of the Crime

I'm embarrased to say I've only read vol. 1 of Sleeper - one of those I keep meaning to get to.

Scene of the Crime is awesome, Lark does the art.

fred
02-17-2007, 12:07 AM
I also missed Gotham Central

oww stop throwing shoes

humphrey-lee
02-17-2007, 12:12 AM
I also missed Gotham Central

oww stop throwing shoes

I don't throw stones, knives seem to do more damage.

It's okay though, it's okay....... heathen.

Oh and his "auto-biography" A COMPLETE LOWLIFE is a must read too. And don't forget his Catwoman run!!

jerome
02-17-2007, 01:54 AM
didn't darwyn cooke draw brubakers catwoman run?

humphrey-lee
02-17-2007, 02:09 AM
He drew a little bit yeah, and I think inked some too, but a good bit of it was mostly Cameron Stewart, and then Paul Gulacy at the end. Stellar run, on par with what he's doing on DD and Cap right now.

fred
02-17-2007, 02:44 AM
I was just out and I passed by a Barnes and Noble so I decided to see if they had Sleeper. No

Went across the street to Borders
No

Maybe those were just the last two straws in an otherwise shitty night but I feel like I'm not meant to read it. I picked up Strangers in Paradise Pocket Book 1

humphrey-lee
02-17-2007, 02:54 AM
I was just out and I passed by a Barnes and Noble so I decided to see if they had Sleeper. No

Went across the street to Borders
No

Maybe those were just the last two straws in an otherwise shitty night but I feel like I'm not meant to read it. I picked up Strangers in Paradise Pocket Book 1

I couldn't find those goddamn pocketbooks to save my life the other week. Pissed me off cause I had a B&N giftcard too.

But on the other hand, the mother****in Pens won again tonight baby!!! Woo! Now I just need to see if I can get this goddamn Zodiac Spear without driving myself crazy.

Also, read LUCIFER. I command all.

acomicbookgirl
02-17-2007, 03:09 AM
Captain America
Daredevil
Criminal
hopefully Uncanny(see my last post)

awesome

I've yet to read Sleeper or Scene of the Crime


I was so close to getting rid of it. I even told the cbg that I don't want it. And he was like "Keep it. Even I got back into Uncanny. You won't be disappointed." So I kept it. So I read an issue(Haven't read any at that time.) and I liked it. So I decided to get rid of it after the Shi'ar storyline. Do you think I get to rid of it? No.. I can't apparently get rid of it per the cbg. Don't get me wrong I like it... I don't know... :confused:

jimski
02-17-2007, 05:42 AM
I also missed Gotham Central

oww stop throwing shoes

The next trade, the delightfully titled "Dead Robin," will be out very soon. Check Amazon and rejoice.

Gotham Central was one of my favorites of all time when it was out, and given what I know about the DCU that's like some kind of miracle. What happened to that book was the true crime.

marcushill73
02-17-2007, 04:18 PM
What did happen to Gotham Central? I know it was canceled, but what was DC's rationale for canceling it?

mikegraham6
02-17-2007, 04:25 PM
Right now I think the only guy out there who puts out the same consistent level of quality (and for a while put out more) is BKV.

i dunno about BKV being on 100% of the time. i think his superhero stuff to be pretty weak. i wasn't impressed with his Ultimate xmen....

conorkilpatrick
02-17-2007, 05:55 PM
The next trade, the delightfully titled "Dead Robin," will be out very soon. Check Amazon and rejoice.

The first three issues of that story arc were Pick of the Weeks. It's brilliant.

marcushill73
02-17-2007, 05:56 PM
I have only started reading Ultimate X-Men since Kirkman started with this title, and have no intention of picking anything before, including BKV.

humphrey-lee
02-17-2007, 06:19 PM
i dunno about BKV being on 100% of the time. i think his superhero stuff to be pretty weak. i wasn't impressed with his Ultimate xmen....

It was a little weak, but it was nothing I'd grade less than a B. I've yet to read anything completely "pedestrian" with him just like I can pretty much say the same for Brubaker (sans Uncanny).

mikegraham6
02-17-2007, 07:19 PM
has anyone read his batman or detective run? i just found out he wrote these titles the other day and i was meaning to look into it. i read the man who laughs ( his joker story) and that was a great book,

baxter
02-17-2007, 07:55 PM
has anyone read his batman or detective run? i just found out he wrote these titles the other day and i was meaning to look into it. i read the man who laughs ( his joker story) and that was a great book,

I really liked his run on Detective. It ran at the same time as the Loeb/Lee Hush so it was fairly ignored at the time, but I remember thinking it was the better story.

I should really dig those issues out...

conorkilpatrick
02-17-2007, 09:02 PM
Greg Rucka wrote Detective Comics while Ed Brubaker wrote Batman, and then Brubaker switched over to Detective after Rucka left and then they both went and did Gotham Central and those were like the greatest Bat-years of my life.

Ed Brubaker
Batman #582-586, 591-607 (October, 2000 - November, 2002)
Detective Comics #777-786 (February, 2003 - November, 2003)
Gotham Central #1-6, 11, 12-16, 19-22, 26-27, 33-36 (February 2003 - December, 2004)

Greg Rucka
Batman #565, 568, 572-574, 587
Detective Comics #732, 735, 739-753, 755-775, 783 (back up story only)
Gotham Central #1-10, 12-15, 17-18, 23-25, 28-32, 38-40 (February 2003 - February, 2006)

jerome
02-17-2007, 09:44 PM
are there trades for those?

mikegraham6
02-17-2007, 10:43 PM
Greg Rucka wrote Detective Comics while Ed Brubaker wrote Batman, and then Brubaker switched over to Detective after Rucka left and then they both went and did Gotham Central and those were like the greatest Bat-years of my life.

its a shame i didn't know about either writer at that time (i was just starting to get back into comics when HUSH was finishing)
it sounds awesome, two of my favorite writers writing my favorite character! and i think they would be perfect for a hero like Batman, street level and nori being their strong points. i hope their collected in trade

six-gun
02-18-2007, 12:06 AM
Hmm.... Yeah, I love Brubaker, he is without a doubt my favorite writer in the biz today. (Top 5: Ed Brubaker, Greg Rucka, Joss Whedon, BKV, and a toss up between Geoff John and Grant Morrison) and although Uncanny is no Astonishing, it's actualy turned out pretty good, Bru seems to be getting the characters and I can see this next arc as really shining.

six-gun
02-18-2007, 12:11 AM
Oh yeah, a quick question for you more veteran comic book readers.

I loved the issues of Sleeper that featured The Grifter, any chance that his preceding mini -Point Blank- starring the ex-Wildcat is any good.

conorkilpatrick
02-18-2007, 06:16 AM
are there trades for those?

Clearly, it's not comprehensive and there are more books that Amazon doesn't seem to have in stock:

Batman: Evolution (New Gotham 1) (http://www.amazon.com/Batman-Evolution-New-Gotham-1/dp/1563897261/sr=8-20/qid=1171782259/ref=sr_1_20/103-3410139-7315858?ie=UTF8&s=books)
Batman: Officer Down (New Gotham 2) (http://www.amazon.com/Batman-Officer-Down-New-Gotham/dp/1563897873/sr=1-15/qid=1171782366/ref=sr_1_15/103-3410139-7315858?ie=UTF8&s=books)
Batman: No Man's Land, Vol. 5 (http://www.amazon.com/Batman-No-Mans-Land-Vol/dp/1563897091/sr=1-1/qid=1171782348/ref=sr_1_1/103-3410139-7315858?ie=UTF8&s=books)
Batman: Bruce Wayne - Murderer? (http://www.amazon.com/Batman-Bruce-Murderer-Greg-Rucka/dp/1563899132/sr=1-21/qid=1171782366/ref=sr_1_21/103-3410139-7315858?ie=UTF8&s=books)
Batman: Bruce Wayne - Fugitive, Vol. 2 (http://www.amazon.com/Batman-Bruce-Wayne-Fugitive-Vol/dp/1563899477/sr=1-7/qid=1171782348/ref=sr_1_7/103-3410139-7315858?ie=UTF8&s=books)
Batman: Bruce Wayne - Fugitive, Vol. 3 (http://www.amazon.com/Batman-Bruce-Wayne-Fugitive-Vol/dp/1401200796/sr=1-24/qid=1171782366/ref=sr_1_24/103-3410139-7315858?ie=UTF8&s=books)

Batman: War Games, Act 3 (http://www.amazon.com/Batman-War-Games-Graphic-Novels/dp/1401204317/sr=1-47/qid=1171782774/ref=sr_1_47/103-3410139-7315858?ie=UTF8&s=books)

Gotham Central Vol. 1: In the Line of Duty (http://www.amazon.com/Gotham-Central-Vol-Line-Batman/dp/1401201997/sr=1-11/qid=1171782535/ref=sr_1_11/103-3410139-7315858?ie=UTF8&s=books)
Gotham Central Vol. 3: Unresolved Targets (http://www.amazon.com/Gotham-Central-Vol-Unresolved-Targets/dp/1563899957/sr=1-20/qid=1171782561/ref=sr_1_20/103-3410139-7315858?ie=UTF8&s=books)
Gotham Central Vol. 4: The Quick and the Dead (http://www.amazon.com/Gotham-Central-Vol-Quick-Batman/dp/1401209122/sr=1-9/qid=1171782535/ref=sr_1_9/103-3410139-7315858?ie=UTF8&s=books)
Gotham Central: Dead Robin - Volume 5 (http://www.amazon.com/Gotham-Central-Dead-Robin/dp/1401213294/sr=1-32/qid=1171782573/ref=sr_1_32/103-3410139-7315858?ie=UTF8&s=books)

And I forgot to mention that Brubaker wrote Catwoman, with art by Darwyn Cooke. It was excellent:

Catwoman Vol. 1: The Dark End of the Street (http://www.amazon.com/Catwoman-Vol-Dark-Street-Batman/dp/1563899086/sr=1-48/qid=1171782774/ref=sr_1_48/103-3410139-7315858?ie=UTF8&s=books)
Catwoman Vol. 2: Crooked Little Town (http://www.amazon.com/Catwoman-Vol-Crooked-Little-Batman/dp/1401200087/sr=1-25/qid=1171782831/ref=sr_1_25/103-3410139-7315858?ie=UTF8&s=books)

hypertime-mcmultiverse
02-18-2007, 06:21 AM
It boggles the mind how a writer as genuinely great as Brubaker can spew out the abortion that is Uncanny X-Men. I guess ever major league hitter has their strike-outs.

jerome
02-18-2007, 06:47 AM
Thanks for the heads up, Conor. Also, in the future, if you liked cooke's catwoman this might be of interest:http://dccomics.com/comics/?cm=7258

I have never heard of half the stories in that collection, but now i must own them.

It boggles the mind how a writer as genuinely great as Brubaker can spew out the abortion that is Uncanny X-Men. I guess ever major league hitter has their strike-outs.

ouch.

mikegraham6
02-18-2007, 07:04 AM
Clearly, it's not comprehensive and there are more books that Amazon doesn't seem to have in stock

thanks connor, im always looking for some good batman story and i will definitely be picking up some of these trades in the future

mikegraham6
02-18-2007, 07:05 AM
sorry i spelt conor wrong... my bad...

humphrey-lee
02-18-2007, 09:42 AM
thanks connor, im always looking for some good batman story and i will definitely be picking up some of these trades in the future

The best stuff to come out of Brubaker's run on the Batman books is probably when he flipped over to Detective while Hush was going on. He had a three or four parter called "Made of Wood" guest staring Alan Scott that was just so freaking good.

conorkilpatrick
02-18-2007, 03:54 PM
What's funny is, when Brubaker started on Batman I didn't really like it. I thought it was very uneven and he didn't have the character voices down yet. Josh can attest to this - I would complain a lot about "This Brubaker guy just not getting it. It's not good." And then all of a sudden he got it and it was awesome.

six-gun
02-18-2007, 04:22 PM
Is Point Blank any good?

fred
02-18-2007, 04:24 PM
I totally thought you mean Point Break

and I was like

NO!

paper
02-18-2007, 04:28 PM
I actually have a professor who screened Point Break in a class. He shows it every semester. I believe the lecture is called "How an Otherwise Perfect Film Falters in the Last Five Minutes."

fred
02-18-2007, 04:33 PM
the shit they'll show people in school

I though I had it bad with Ghandi

darron
02-18-2007, 06:02 PM
I had to watch The Mask in class once...not the Jim Carey version, either. The Cher version. I couldn't tell her from the boy half the time, though.


I just found issues three and four of Criminal....tootie-fruitie is this a great series. More and thicker shit keeps hitting the fan for Leo, and I must say, I'm strapped in to see if he runs or not.

Every Brubaker book I've ever read I've liked. That's why I'm not reading Uncanny. I like Brubaker, but my dislike of big swords goes back to me being a kid and hating Final Fantasy....oh how I loathe big swords. WTF is the point?

baxter
02-18-2007, 06:26 PM
Oh yeah, a quick question for you more veteran comic book readers.

I loved the issues of Sleeper that featured The Grifter, any chance that his preceding mini -Point Blank- starring the ex-Wildcat is any good.

Its very good. Brubaker used te Wildstorm Universe very well in his runs, and he wrote the best non-Ellis Midnighter in his Authority run. Note that I haven't read The Midnighter's new ongoing yet.

It boggles the mind how a writer as genuinely great as Brubaker can spew out the abortion that is Uncanny X-Men. I guess ever major league hitter has their strike-outs.

Wow. I just thought it was boring. And even then the first 3 issues were great. Abortion man? I think thats a little harsh.

hypertime-mcmultiverse
02-18-2007, 07:40 PM
Wow. I just thought it was boring. And even then the first 3 issues were great. Abortion man? I think thats a little harsh.

When he introduced that guy with a giant Phoenix sword, it stopped being boring and started venturing into Final Fantasy VII fanfic. If someone told me that a Brubaker-penned Uncanny X-Men would be the weakest book in the X-line months ago, I would've kicked them in the face. Maybe abortion was a bit strong - this should be reserved for Chuck Austen's giant crap on the X-universe - but Brubaker is really dropping the ball here. He's such a great character writer, yet he's focusing on this half-assed space opera that makes latter-day Claremont look like frickin' Star Wars.

Someone probably should've told him that Vulcan just isn't an interesting character at all.

drwally
02-20-2007, 07:20 PM
OK, I've seen this thread and wanted to dip in, but I felt like I really needed to read more, and Brubaker kept popping up in what I bought and still pops up...and I knew nothing of the man's "rep." Being a total "cherry picker" and completely adverse to picking up something that is just not worth my time, this is the formula of how I pick (not in any particular order):

1) Character (type, personality, archetype, whatever you call it)
2) Story type (space opera vs. street crime, pulp adventure vs. real life espionage, and dozens of others)
3) Artist (could be Cooke or Hitch, just do one style well, not half ass it)
4) Writer (based on--here it is--past rep maybe, but also their suitability to a certain type of character or story type).

These four need to be in sync, and no one point will ever dominate my decision over the other. I think that addresses Jimski's very good original question well that generated a great link (I totally cut and pasted what people have mentioned to my "buy in the future file").

I think the Brubaker/X-Men conundrum is simple -- that's just not his "territory" and does not play to his strengths as a writer. He may love X-Men space opera as a reader, but almost every writer has a genre they love deeply, many times the one they know they could never write well. And that's when the editor needs to step in and say, "You're great, but not for this one." Take even Tolkien -- his story telling and descriptive passages are fantastic, but his dialogue (unless its Sam and the Hobbits) verges on the wooden.

It's interesting to see that DC has put Brubaker on titles he does well consistently, but it was Marvel (perhaps thinking too much about marketing than good books) that let him do X-Men. I'm just getting aquainted to Brubaker, but according to the four points I have outlined above, I will never be spending money on the X-Men he did ... although Brubaker, in Books of Doom, was one of the few writers to figure out that Latveria, being in Eastern Europe, might *possibly* have a Cold War angle in there somewhere, something he shows he knows as well as street crime in Winter Soldier... so late to the thread, but boy oh boy did I pick up some great recommendations...

ekval
02-20-2007, 09:17 PM
I don't think Uncanny is the weakest of the X books by any stretch, though I do think this arc is way too long. Plus, I'm not a fan of the X guys in space, and I would actually like to see the X-men in the book a little in every issue.

Okay, so it really is kinda bad....but it isn't worse than New or adjectiveless in my book...

conorkilpatrick
02-20-2007, 09:23 PM
I don't think Uncanny is the weakest of the X books by any stretch...Okay, so it really is kinda bad....but it isn't worse than New or adjectiveless in my book...

I agree with that. I lasted longer on Uncanny than X-Men.

drwally
02-21-2007, 06:19 AM
I agree with that. I lasted longer on Uncanny than X-Men.

...And I don't think I will be buying either book, Brubaker or no Brubaker. I love you guys, ifanboys 3 an community -- you save me so much money...

humphrey-lee
02-21-2007, 08:23 AM
...And I don't think I will be buying either book, Brubaker or no Brubaker. I love you guys, ifanboys 3 an community -- you save me so much money...

BUY NEXTWAVE!!!

....... oh, ****...

mikegraham6
02-21-2007, 09:00 AM
BUY NEXTWAVE!!!

....... oh, ****...

i bought the first trade and blew threw it in 20 minutes! i was definitely an interesting and different read. "My Robot brain needs beer"

fred
02-21-2007, 11:36 AM
NextWave is so funny. If you want to see robotic Steven Hawkings fly and shoot wheelchair missles than this book is for you.

drwally
02-21-2007, 11:40 AM
NextWave is so funny. If you want to see robotic Steven Hawkings fly and shoot wheelchair missles than this book is for you.

I don't know if I'll buy it, but this I have to see--The key point is how the artist executes it...didn't Kirby do something like that (7 or 8 times)?

fred
02-21-2007, 11:47 AM
THe artist is Stuart Immonen. It's very distinct and awesome. The reason that they cancelled the book is that it was doing well enough, but not well enough to afford Immonen anymore so Ellis didn't want to continue.

He also did MODOK Elvises. or is it Elvi? no matter

drwally
02-21-2007, 12:53 PM
THe artist is Stuart Immonen. It's very distinct and awesome. The reason that they cancelled the book is that it was doing well enough, but not well enough to afford Immonen anymore so Ellis didn't want to continue.

He also did MODOK Elvises. or is it Elvi? no matter

OOOOOO, this is making me a little interested... although personally (and remember, I am very old school, and have never seen any of this new stuff) I would have to see a MODOK Elvis as the original MODOK, Elvis just before he died -- Giant Elvis head with little arms and legs in the MODOK suit/chair thing/whatever (see link).... But maybe I wish for too much...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MODOK

fred
02-21-2007, 01:56 PM
that's fairly close yes
with classic white rhinestone jumpsuit though

JAFlanagan
02-21-2007, 06:50 PM
Is Point Blank any good?

Sorry you couldn't get an answer on this. I think no is the answer. It might be, but I remember buying the first issue and not digging it. It wasn't terrible, but it certainly wasn't Sleeper.

If you want good early Brubaker, no one has mentioned the brilliant but cancelled Deadenders which introduced me to the writer. From Vertigo.

Also, I don't think Uncanny is bad. I think it's just not for me. X-Men fans seem to love it. Which is fine. It doesn't have to be for me. But it's not terrible or anything.

six-gun
02-22-2007, 12:54 AM
Sorry you couldn't get an answer on this. I think no is the answer. It might be, but I remember buying the first issue and not digging it. It wasn't terrible, but it certainly wasn't Sleeper.

If you want good early Brubaker, no one has mentioned the brilliant but cancelled Deadenders which introduced me to the writer. From Vertigo.

Also, I don't think Uncanny is bad. I think it's just not for me. X-Men fans seem to love it. Which is fine. It doesn't have to be for me. But it's not terrible or anything.

Thanks Josh, you just saved me $10.00!

conorkilpatrick
02-22-2007, 08:40 PM
If you want good early Brubaker, no one has mentioned the brilliant but cancelled Deadenders which introduced me to the writer. From Vertigo.

I should really reread the Deadenders trade I have. I didn't really love it the first time I did, but now I think my perspective might be different.