View Full Version : Delays/Late Books: Do you Care?
mikegraham6
03-01-2007, 09:46 AM
Figured this poll would be interesting, if anything we can turn this thread into a ***** session about late books and delays.
It doesn't bug me on a regular basis, mainly cause i dont notice it unless it is significantly late. but it is a case by case basis. Books like Ultimate Wolverine VS Hulk or All-Star Batman, where they are obscenely late due to the creators biting off more than they can chew, pisses the hell outta me. Why can Jim Lee do a book like WildC.A.T.S but not finish his issue of Batman?? Why would Lindeloft commit to this book if he couldn't handle the pressure of writing it combined with Lost? I think the editors should wait until more books are in the bag before they solicit them.
The Civil War delay ticked me off only because it delayed the entire marvel line, and i dont think thats fair to the fans or the other creators.
But books like the Ultimates doesn't annoy me because i bought it knowing it would take a while and its always an awesome surprise when i get it. Plus more often than not the art is worth the wait. Its different then Wolverine VS Hulk because i know it WILL come out.
What do you guys think? Is it as big a deal as a lot people make it out to be?
humphrey-lee
03-01-2007, 10:10 AM
Not really. If it's a really good book, then it's typically worth the wait. And if it's just a pretty good book that suffers delays because of overhyped creative crews, well then I can forget about it until it's gone. It's been my experience that the really, really good books rarely have delays at all, or not very bad ones. Fables has a full 12 issues last year, including a double sized AND the 1001 Nights OGN. Ex Machina got in 9 issues I believe, as did Walking Dead and Invincible. And y'know what? All worth it. Let alone the Daredevils, DMZ's and X-Factors of the world that actually come out, GASP, monthly AND are at the top of the industry for quality too.
Ultimates had, what, 4 issues last year and it was meh. Civil War got in 5 and I rather they hadn't made one of them and so on and so forth.
kwok_talk
03-01-2007, 11:24 AM
Pretty much agree with what Humphrey said. If the book is good, any frustration that comes with lateness is generally taken away if the book is good (and just builds my excitement for the next issue). Not saying its a completely good thing. And if you read trades, half the time you don't even know that the delays had happened. (Like I had no idea Ultimate Hulk vs. Wolverine hadn't even finished until it got mentioned on the podcast a few weeks back.)
I think it depends on the story. If it's written with enough exposition where it's not a big deal that I haven't read it in 3 months it's OK.
k33k3r
03-01-2007, 01:06 PM
Did we discuse this like a week or so ago?
I still say it depend on the story and if the book has a history of lateness.
watsonglenn
03-01-2007, 01:08 PM
Late books show a lack of professionalism and a lack of concern about the fans. Its amature hour. Its pathetic. There is no excuse for it. In America consumer products are supposed to come out on time. That's what we do! Every time a company puts out a comic late it shows their incompetence.
Did we discuse this like a week or so ago?
I still say it depend on the story and if the book has a history of lateness.
I thought so too but didn't feel like searching for the other one
k33k3r
03-01-2007, 01:12 PM
Yeah i didn't look either.
xyzzy
03-01-2007, 05:26 PM
I only get my books once a month, so anything late within that window isn't even visible to me.
1-2 months, I probably wouldn't notice.
Around 3 months, I'd probably wonder where the next issue was.
Around 5 months, I usually forget that I'm even reading it.
And 75% of my reading is in TPB format anyway, so take all of those numbers and triple them for those.
ekval
03-01-2007, 05:36 PM
Like xyzzy, I only grab my stuff every other week or so, so if it were only slightly delayed, I'd not notice.
And, though I've only been back for a few months and certainly noticed Civil War being late, none of it compares to the early Image days or heaven forbid, Cliffhanger, when books came out biannually.
It might just be that I don't buy the stuff that comes out late though...
jimski
03-01-2007, 06:07 PM
I think probably 80% of my character flaws can be tied to this question. More often than not, I throw a tantrum about late books and make those pathetic comic-book-guy threats about voting with my wallet only to break down and buy the benighted things anyway when they come out. And I learn nothing for the next time.
From a business standpoint, it certainly seems unwise to put out a product fundamentally designed to make people excited about what comes next and then repeatedly not get it to them. The longer you go between issues, the more time I have to gradually realize that I can live my life without ever knowing how Daredevil: Father ends. I've made it a year or so; it's getting to the point where I can't remember what I was excited about in the first place.
The Ultimates, from a pacing standpoint, is an absolute nail-biter that's impact has been totally diminished by its Brigadoon-like appearances in the shops. Not only am I not prepared to say that a good book is worth the wait, I would go so far as to argue that the wait actually makes the book less good, at least from an experiential standpoint. How 'bout that crazy talk? (Unless, of course, "the wait" is "the wait for the finished trade, which you can read however you want," in which case I naturally agree.)
I need to stop reading the behind-the-scenes stuff and the hype, because that's how it always ends up driving me crazy. The thing that actually starts my blood pressure rising is not so much the lateness as hearing for months before the project comes out, "Oh, Hitchy and me have 17 issues in the can already. We're so far ahead, we've completed four more issues than are even in the series." And then issue #3 is six months late. You know what I mean if you read Newsarama: every third announcement features the question, "You are pretty high-profile creators; won't this comic obviously be late, and maybe never come out?" and every time they sit there and... actually, I'm getting a little agitated just thinking about imaginary lateness. I'm done. :)
hometeam790
03-01-2007, 09:41 PM
Yeah, I care. If its not too late, I'll generally get it. But if its too late, sometimes I'll forget about the book and not buy it ever again.
davegraham
03-01-2007, 09:42 PM
Lateness doesn't bother me much. Take Ultimates, yeah I sometimes forget pieces of the plot, which is terrible, but I can dig into my back issues to get the whole story. At the end of an arc, Ultimates usually pays off. I feel the same way about Civil War. I was reading all of the tie-ins, most weeks there was something there for me.
There are so many comics, characters, writers, and artists that interest me that I never have enough money to read. When something gets pushed back, I buy something else.
The up side to late books; my store offers a discount for the more books I have on my pull list. Ultimates is on my list. Even though it doesn't come out every month. I always get the discount for having it on my list.
jaflanagan
03-01-2007, 09:49 PM
You certainly make your point more eloquently than most.
I think it all comes down the expectation management. Don't say you can do a monthly book if you can't. Do it bi-monthly, or have a lot ready ahead of time. I've heard that publishers frequently solicit books before the creators feel comfortable doing so. Plus with the Diamond 3-months-in-advance system, a publisher often has their hand forced.
However, the calibur of artists we get these days may not lend themselves to monthlyness. I can't imagine the Hitch can draw one of those pages he does is a single day. And then do it again for every day for a month. I admit I have sympathy for the artists.
The writers...unless in the case of illness, like Busiek or even Millar, have less excuses. I hate hate hate when someone commits to a project, and then bails. There's no excuse for that. There might be, but they never give it to me, so I'll continue to be self righteous.
That all being said, lateness doesn't really bug me that much unless it becomes routine. Such as with many of the books mentioned above.
I think the Civil War delays were a mix of overenthusiasm and some bad luck. I very much doubt McNiven was getting up and noon and working 2-3 hours, and ****ing around. So I can forgive him that. I can also be annoyed. At least we're done now.
jo-relrollins
03-01-2007, 10:20 PM
It all depends. If it is a good story it keeps me on my toes. Most of the time it allows me to notice a new book I wouldn't have before. Like Astonishing XMen th delays make me wait in anticipation. Civil War made me angry because the wait didn't fix anything.
jimski
03-30-2007, 03:51 PM
It suddenly occurs to me this morning that I'm reading an Astro City series, allegedly.
Is that on any schedule anywhere? I love the book, but I'd forgotten all about it.
paper
03-30-2007, 03:54 PM
It suddenly occurs to me this morning that I'm reading an Astro City series, allegedly.
Is that on any schedule anywhere? I love the book, but I'd forgotten all about it.
Didn't they say they were doing it at their own pace and not even attempting a schedule?
mikegraham6
03-30-2007, 06:50 PM
This i don't understand. If they admit that they aren't even bothering to follow a schedule, why don't they just release the damn thing as a TPB? it seems that would make more sense and make everyone happy
xyzzy
03-30-2007, 06:51 PM
This i don't understand. If they admit that they aren't even bothering to follow a schedule, why don't they just release the damn thing as a TPB? it seems that would make more sense and make everyone happy
Becuase then they'd have to wait 6 times as long before any money started coming in. Also, some people like issues, believe it or not.
mikegraham6
03-30-2007, 07:18 PM
i like issues as well but if im waiting 6 months for an issue, then the time period obviously isn't a factor. so why not wait a little longer and have a pretty TPB in your collection instead?
k33k3r
03-30-2007, 07:20 PM
Because issues and then TPB allow them to make more money. THey need people to read the issues to tell other people to get the TPB when it comes out.
doctor-colossus
03-30-2007, 08:46 PM
Delays.
Ah Yes.
I too remember the early days of IMAGE.
Civil War?
Ultimates?
Those delays were nothing compared to the wait for PITT#2.
I don't care if something is a little late. It's pretty lame when folks get too bent out of shape about it. I really hate the line, "They're getting PAID. They could at least do their job." Things happen, and that's that.
However, it's different when you start having notoriety for being late.
WILDCATS #2, anyone?
in fairness to jim lee, Wildcats #2 is only late because someone stole his ladder and he can't climb up to his drawing table anymore
in fairness to jim lee, Wildcats #2 is only late because someone stole his ladder and he can't climb up to his drawing table anymore
Well, being Mr. Lee and all, I'm sure he could afford a new one.
no one can find him and they also took his tiny little blackberry
jimski
04-03-2007, 08:50 PM
I just read this from a Mr. Heinberg about the late Wonder Woman conclusion and its further latening:
In order for DC’s AMAZONS ATTACK event to ship on schedule, DC has temporarily asked Terry and Rachel Dodson to stop working on WHO IS WONDER WOMAN?, PART 5, so they can draw and ink WONDER WOMAN #8 and #9 (scripted by Jodi Picoult). At that point, the Dodsons will return to our story, but that means, WHO IS WONDER WOMAN?, PART 5 probably won’t ship until early fall. Sad news on the scheduling front, to be sure, but — from the pages I’ve already seen — it will be more than worth the wait.
conorkilpatrick
04-03-2007, 08:55 PM
I just read this from a Mr. Heinberg about the late Wonder Woman conclusion and its further latening:
In order for DC’s AMAZONS ATTACK event to ship on schedule, DC has temporarily asked Terry and Rachel Dodson to stop working on WHO IS WONDER WOMAN?, PART 5, so they can draw and ink WONDER WOMAN #8 and #9 (scripted by Jodi Picoult). At that point, the Dodsons will return to our story, but that means, WHO IS WONDER WOMAN?, PART 5 probably won’t ship until early fall. Sad news on the scheduling front, to be sure, but — from the pages I’ve already seen — it will be more than worth the wait.
God, just give it up. They should just pretend that those issues never happened and not worry about finishing the story. Do a one page recap of the new status quo and move on.
Stupid, stupid, stupid.
seriously, it's over
genie's out of the bottle
jimski
04-03-2007, 10:50 PM
I don't know anything about what's going on with Richard Donner's Superman story, other than that it sounded like it went AWOL a while ago. With that in mind, I laughed through a groan when I read that Richard Donner and Geoff Johns are teaming up to do a Goonies comic:
http://www.wizarduniverse.com/magazine/wizard/004079256.cfm
I think that supplants "Bendis and Maleev on Halo" for the award for "creative team I would most like to see doing almost anything else."
xyzzy
04-03-2007, 11:11 PM
Why the Goonies hate? C'mon. Sloth love Chunk. Why don't you?
jerome
04-04-2007, 12:31 AM
With that in mind, I laughed through a groan when I read that Richard Donner and Geoff Johns are teaming up to do a Goonies comic:
http://www.wizarduniverse.com/magazine/wizard/004079256.cfm
I think that supplants "Bendis and Maleev on Halo" for the award for "creative team I would most like to see doing almost anything else."
I'm pretty sure that was an April Fool's Joke.
Rocky Roooooooooaaaaaaaddddd
darron
04-05-2007, 02:26 AM
Those delays were nothing compared to the wait for PITT#2.
There was a PITT#2? No shit? I honestly thought 1 was it. Huh.
Late books show a lack of professionalism and a lack of concern about the fans. Its amature hour. Its pathetic. There is no excuse for it. Every time a company puts out a comic late it shows their incompetence.
WHOA WHOA dude, relax a bit, eh? Sure, delays are bad, but the way you talk it seems that some delayed book killed your dog. Civil War didn't kill your dog, k? Well, it might've, but not 'cause it was late.
Delays don't bother me too much. I'm pretty much in the same camp as Josh. I feel for (certain) artists, writers, etc. I like what the artist for X-Factor (name escapes me) is doing....he straight up KNOWS me can't do a monthly book, so he came out and said, "Look, would if I could draw a monthly book, but I can't. So every once in a while, so-and-so will step in for a month." That's cool with me.
I like what the artist for X-Factor (name escapes me) is doing....he straight up KNOWS me can't do a monthly book, so he came out and said, "Look, would if I could draw a monthly book, but I can't. So every once in a while, so-and-so will step in for a month." That's cool with me.
Pablo Raimondi - he draws weird noses
jimski
04-12-2007, 10:07 PM
The last issue of the Ultimates is off to the printers, and as proof Newsarama has published the 8-page foldout spread that so complicated its publication.
It must suck to work so hard for so long to perfect something that is the culmination of all the work you've been doing for years, only to have some bum like me look at it online for two seconds and go, "Pfft! Not worth it."
But that's what I did. Maybe I just have a reserved seat in hell.
it's not like you lit a bag of shit on his porch
you didn't did you? if so, do you have pics?
darron
04-13-2007, 01:23 AM
He called the shit "poop!"
On a completely unrelated note (sorry guys);
I remember saying this in another thread, but what happened with Shazam! and the Monster Society of Evil? The first two issues came other pretty close to each other, if I remember correctly, but now it's seemed to have gone just a little off track. Not really a complaint, as it probably comes out soon enough, more of just an observation.
I was wondering about #3 just the other day myself
(just about what I responded when you posted yours the first time)
ah yes and
He's gonna shit when he realizes it's shit.
darron
04-13-2007, 02:53 AM
Well I figured this was the right thread this time.
Either way, it's cool to pee your pants.
jimski
04-13-2007, 03:05 AM
Stop looking at me, swan!
I have been wondering about that Shazam #3 too, but only because I still haven't read #2. I kept thinking, "I really need to finish this... number #3's going to be out before you know it... yes, sir... any time... now... I guess it can wait."
kwok_talk
04-13-2007, 03:13 AM
I was in my basement the other day and found a box of comics from when I last was reading, which seemed like such a long time ago. Then I realized that I had some issues of the Ulitmates in there, which then hit how long it's taken for that book to come out.
comhcinc
04-13-2007, 03:36 AM
just stick with to a schedule if it is monthly fine if bi monthly or quarterly or whatever. just stick with it. otherwise you need to get out of the game
mikegraham6
04-13-2007, 03:57 AM
i miss the ultimates, i really liked it and bryan hitch's art was superb but it's definitely not worth this long a wait. my LCG said that apparently hitch drew the issue and then marvel lost it on its way to the inker so he had to draw the entire issue again. i dont know about you guys but if i was the artist and that happened to me i'd be pretty f*cking pissed
If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis.
Feel those kicks, he's gonna be a soccer player, he is, he is
mikegraham6
04-13-2007, 12:39 PM
If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis.
Feel those kicks, he's gonna be a soccer player, he is, he is
you just want to turn this thread into billy madison quotes don't you?
Shampoo is better. I go on first and clean the hair. Conditioner is better. I leave the hair silky and smooth. Oh, really, fool? Really.
Stop looking at me, swan!
it's nudie magazine day
I thought I was your snack pack.
k33k3r
04-13-2007, 01:20 PM
Mr. Madison that made no sense. We are all now dumber for hearing it. I award you no point and may god have mercy on your soul.
Okay, a simple "wrong" would've done just fine.
mikegraham6
04-13-2007, 07:16 PM
I'll tell you who it was, it was that damned Sasquatch !
k33k3r
04-13-2007, 07:23 PM
Boy am I happy I called that guy
Back to school, back to school, to prove to dad that I'm not a fool. I got my lunch packed up, my boots tied tight, I hope I don't get in a fight
k33k3r
04-13-2007, 07:31 PM
T-T-T-Today Junior!!!!
Bunt. B-U-N-T in perfect cursive. Any more brain busters?
No, I will not make out with you! we got chlorophyll guy up there talking about god knows what and all this girl wants to do is make out with me. I am here to learn everybody, not to make out with you. Proceed with the chlorophyll
k33k3r
04-13-2007, 07:39 PM
Come here mister penguin. I'm not going to hurt you.
darron
04-13-2007, 08:33 PM
Have some more sloppy joes! I made 'em extra sloppy for yous. I know how yous kids like 'em sloppy!
Lady, your're scaring us.
I don't want to annoy another teacher, Miss Vaughan, I want to annoy you.
darron
04-13-2007, 08:36 PM
Any attempt to cheat, especially with my wife, who is a dirty, dirty, tramp, and I am just gonna snap.
Everybody on? Good, great, grand, wonderful. No yelling on the bus!
Miss Lippy, the part about the story that I didn't like was that he gave up looking after an hour. He didn't put up posters or nothin. He just sat on the porch like a goon and waited. You got a pet, that's your thing, that's your responsibility. You don't look for an hour and call it quits. You get your *ss out there and you find that f*ckin dog.
darron
04-13-2007, 08:44 PM
Rirruto?
Those are Z's.
They look like R's to me.
You're cheating! Rizzuto's not a word! He's a baseball player!
O'Doyle, I have a feeling your whole family is going down. But for now, I gotta study
darron
04-13-2007, 08:47 PM
Oh gross! Did you see that guys balls?
Yea...they were weird looking.
What? I can't hear you! I have been physically abused in the ear!
darron
04-13-2007, 08:51 PM
I bet that snack pack i pretty good huh...wanna trade the rest of it for this banana?
You know how badly I could beat you, right?
It ahh, came with the tent.
darron
04-13-2007, 08:55 PM
You want some of this milk, sideburns?
I'd rather have a beer.
I thought I was your snack pack.
darron
04-13-2007, 08:57 PM
I'll turn this damn bus around! That'll end your precious field trip pretty damn quick, huh! Little shit!
Oh, I see what's going on here. Proceed.
darron
04-13-2007, 09:02 PM
Hey, kids, it's me! I bet you thought that I was dead. But when I fell over I just broke my leg and got a hemorrhage in my head.
Yahoo for me. Yahoo for school!
darron
04-13-2007, 09:05 PM
Who would you rather bone...Meg Ryan, or Jack Nicholson?
Remember that spelling bee you won in the first grade? Rock: r-o-k?
Yeah, so what's your point?
r-o-C-k!
Ohhh yeh! The c is silent.
Who would you rather bone, Meg Ryan or Jack Nicholson?
Jack Nicholson now, or 1974?
1974.
Meg Ryan.
If you're gonna stay home today, you can help me shave my armpits.
darron
04-13-2007, 09:08 PM
You were supposeed to answer the question, Fred...now you've ruined it!
No you haven't.
I swear to God I'm sick. I can't go to school.
If you're gonna stay home today, you can help me shave my armpits.
Oh my God! I'll go to school.
When I graduated from first grade, all my dad did was tell me to get a job
darron
04-13-2007, 09:09 PM
Sometimes I feel like an idiot. But I am an idiot, so it kinda works out.
Oh, Billy Billy boy. When are you gonna find what ever it is you're looking for?
Here's a nice piece of shit.
No milk will ever be our milk.
Well, "sorry" doesn't put the Triscuit crackers in my stomach now, does it Karl?
It's too damn hot for a penguin to be just walkin' around. I gotta send you back to the South Pole.