The Sandman Thread aka I Hate Black Nail Polish

[horatio616]

I never read Sandman because by the time I caught wind of the hype, I was already too far behind to try and catch up. It's been on my 'to do' list for years.
Additional reasons why I haven't read it yet:

1. I read the first trade and found it to be weak and highly derivative of Alan Moore's Swamp Thing. I hear it gets a lot better but...

2. Ron. I like Suicide Girls but when talks about the Sandman stereotype it makes me not want to read it.

3. 1602 and The Eternals. I found both of these to be incredibly bland. Can Gaiman's Sandman be really that much better?

People who've read Sandman. Tell me this series is actually good. Please note that I'm not a big fan of dreams in fiction. Dream sequences in films annoy me. Why is this book good?

[kwok_talk]

I won’t try and be THE GUY to defend Sandman, but I started reading the trades back in college and I thought they were a really good mishmash of literature, horror and general comic bookery. I really liked Doll’s House and the one where Lucifer gives up the keys to Hell. Sometimes it was a little to weird for me, but I definitely dug the creativity.

On the whole, I think Gaiman is a little overrated. I read one of his books and found it just average.

[jaflanagan]

I never read Sandman because by the time I caught wind of the hype, I was already too far behind to try and catch up. It's been on my 'to do' list for years.
Additional reasons why I haven't read it yet:

1. I read the first trade and found it to be weak and highly derivative of Alan Moore's Swamp Thing. I hear it gets a lot better but...

2. Ron. I like Suicide Girls but when talks about the Sandman stereotype it makes me not want to read it.

3. 1602 and The Eternals. I found both of these to be incredibly bland. Can Gaiman's Sandman be really that much better?

People who've read Sandman. Tell me this series is actually good. Please note that I'm not a big fan of dreams in fiction. Dream sequences in films annoy me. Why is this book good?


1. I see what you're saying, and there's a valid reason. It's interesting that you pick up on it. But Moore was fairly influential about getting Gaiman off his ass and starting to write, and thusly, an early Gaiman was sort of aping Moore in those early stages. That's true. But it does get better. Much better.

2. You're taking Ron seriously, that's your first mistake. It's an old tired stereotype, and whether it's your taste or not (and it doesn't have to be) Sandman is an important work in the world of comics. If reading sandman turns you into a stereotype of some late 90's gothy person, you have problems way beyond what comics you're reading.

3. I found that both 1602 and Eternals lacked much of the heart that was in Sandman. They were skillful and interesting enough, but they didn't have that extra something in Sandman, which is really the best work Gaiman's done in comics, and will probably continue to be.

See, here's the thing, if you really don't want to like it, you won't. Conversely, if you really do want to like it, you very likely won't either, because it's hard to like something that's been built up so much. But it isn't a "You had to be there" thing, because I wasn't there, and I liked it just fine. But it's a time and money commitment to read the whole thing, so maybe borrow them, or check out the library.

Me, I dug it, and I dug it more the second time I read it. It's not my favorite thing ever, but it's very good, and outside of Ron, there are many more regular every day comic readers who would agree.

[fred]

people read the Sandman trades? I thought they just used them to lure crying runaways away from train stations.

learn something new everyday


seriously though, and this is ONLY MY OPINION, it gradually improves from 1-40 and then begins to decline a bit(but still be good) until about 65. After that, it's not my idea of good.

many people love it though

[mikegraham6]

i have all the trades of sandman, and to tell you the truth it really wasn't my cuppa tea. i read them at the same time i was reading preacher and i enjoyed preacher SOOOOO much more, it was way more fun and up my alley. im not a big fantasy guy and that was the crux of all of the storylines.
in all honesty i enjoyed the first two trades the most and those are the ones that people seem to scoff at. i just found the stories more interesting and engrossing (oh ya and they were friggin' creepy!)

i never really reccommend sandman to people unless they really love fantasy or don't think comics can be litterature (if anything, sandman IS well written)

[mikegraham6]

one other thing, i think as a comics reader you almost feel obligated to read sandman, but dont fret... read preacher instead!

[horatio616]

I want to hurry up and read it. The longer you wait to read the groundbreaking comics, the less of an effect it has on you. Similarly, someone reading Watchmen in 2007 is going to find it less impressive than someone reading it in 1997 and especially in 1986 because of all the comics that came in its wake that were heavily influenced by it. The longer I wait, the less I'll like it, I figure.

[horatio616]

one other thing, i think as a comics reader you almost feel obligated to read sandman, but dont fret... read preacher instead!

I read Preacher in trade just as the series was finishing in comic form. Raised as a Baptist, I found it to be a jarring experience. Jarring and addictive. It's one of my all-time favorites.

I've pretty much read all of the must-reads (MIRACLEMAN). I've never read any Eisner and haven't read Maus II; otherwise, all bases covered.

[tokenuser]

Sandman? Meh ...

DEATH on the other hand ...

[horatio616]

people read the Sandman trades? I thought they just used them to lure crying runaways away from train stations.


I think you're confusing Sandman with hot, tasty Quizno's subs. It happens. Imagine my embarassment when I once asked Gaiman to sign my 12-inch honey mustard turkey sub. (No peppers or oniions. Bothers my stomach.)

[antifanboy-jon]

I really don't know why a lot of people here that listen to ifanboy hate on one of the more important comic titles ever produced.

Ron, you are a nice guy and all, but GIVE IT A CHANCE. Take it from your friend Josh, who I might add has extremely good taste in comics, that it MIGHT ACTUALLY BE GOOD.

I hate to be a dick but this stereotyping is pretty much on the same level of racism.

BLACK NAIL POLISH?

Please. I'm sure all of you people love the lord of the rings movies but sit outside role playing shops and make fun of D&D players.

[antifanboy-jon]

I want to hurry up and read it. The longer you wait to read the groundbreaking comics, the less of an effect it has on you. Similarly, someone reading Watchmen in 2007 is going to find it less impressive than someone reading it in 1997 and especially in 1986 because of all the comics that came in its wake that were heavily influenced by it. The longer I wait, the less I'll like it, I figure.

Sorry but I am going to have to BLATANTLY disagree with you.

Some classics are timeless. Watchmen is one of them. If you are reading it in 1986 or 3499, it will have the same effect.

[mikegraham6]

I really don't know why a lot of people here that listen to ifanboy hate on one of the more important comic titles ever produced.

Ron, you are a nice guy and all, but GIVE IT A CHANCE. Take it from your friend Josh, who I might add has extremely good taste in comics, that it MIGHT ACTUALLY BE GOOD.

I hate to be a dick but this stereotyping is pretty much on the same level of racism.

BLACK NAIL POLISH?

Please. I'm sure all of you people love the lord of the rings movies but sit outside role playing shops and make fun of D&D players.


DUDE! i would hardly compare it to racism, its all jokes my friend. no one takes it seriously. anything fred says is basically ignored anyway :D
now go listen to the cure and cry yourself to sleep....

JOKES GUY JOKES!!!!! :D ;) :D

[horatio616]

I hate to be a dick but this stereotyping is pretty much on the same level of racism.

Not even close. I don't remember Goths being hung from trees. Also, I think that they work at Starbucks of their own free will.




BLACK NAIL POLISH?

Please. I'm sure all of you people love the lord of the rings movies but sit outside role playing shops and make fun of D&D players.

Actually, I think making fun of D&D players is a God-given right. It's even in the Constitution if I'm not mistaken.

You can't make fun of the cartoon though. It was great.

[fred]

I've hung goths from trees
:confused: :eek: :(

[horatio616]

Sorry but I am going to have to BLATANTLY disagree with you.

Some classics are timeless. Watchmen is one of them. If you are reading it in 1986 or 3499, it will have the same effect.

Hmm, the only way to settle this is to do it scientifically and post a new thread! I would like to think that people reading Watchmen now would be as affected by it as I was in '86, but I wouldn't be surprised if they thought it was overrated. I don't think it's overrated at all, but I'm not sure of its timelessness.

[horatio616]

I've hung goths from trees
:confused: :eek: :(

I hope you remembered to deduct it from your taxes. Charity.

[fred]

Actually, I think making fun of D&D players is a God-given right. It's even in the Constitution if I'm not mistaken.


It's also the 11th Commandment

Thou shalt give shit to D&D players

[fred]

I hope you remembered to deduct it from your taxes. Charity.

the rope yes
the time no(didn't feel right about that)

[antifanboy-jon]

Haha you guys are ridiculous.

But seriously! Sandman is really good.

Now SAVAGE DRAGON fans should be hung, if you guys want to go down that path.

[ekval]

Ironically I was moderately goth back then and managed to avoid all but a couple of issues of Sandman. The ones I read were in the middle of the run and as such just confused the heck out of me.

Of course, I didn't read Preacher either...

[fred]

Of course, I didn't read Preacher either...

you MUST read it. It's great

[ekval]

I just have this suspicion that I will dislike it intensely...

[antifanboy-jon]

Preacher is ridiculous. I consider that and sandman my favorites ever

[mikegraham6]

i dont think ive ever met anyone who didn't enjoy preacher, but ive seen a lot of people who disliked sandman,
preacher, after watchmen, is my favorite all time comic book, its so damn fun and absurd.
i can see how someone who is really religious would probably hate it though, its pretty offensive.

im really looking forward to the HBO series, and thank god HBO is the one doing it! (they will probably get a lot of hate mail though)

[mikegraham6]

i want an absolute preacher!!!

[fred]

the religious aspects could make its appeal less broad

[fred]

i want an absolute preacher!!!

Volumes 1-4

[drwally]

OK, getting a little specific, as we all know what sparked this thread, but here it is: people who post here who did not get into Sandman, I get. That I can understand. But after listening to almost all the iFanboy podcasts, I am left wondering: why would Ron not love this book, and its not like he doesn't have someone who can loan him the trades even, or at least fill him enough about who is who and where the run is good, and all that.

The only thing I can think of this, going back to my own experience when Sandman hit back in the 90s: People who might share Ron's taste in music, if they read comics, probably only read Sandman, and might have belittled Ron's taste in comics, which right there can set someone up to be predisposed to not like something even before reading it.

This is totally wild speculation on my part, I know that, but Ron not liking Death and Matthew the Raven, and all the other stuff if he actually reads it? This I don't get. I am stumped for an answer...

[mikegraham6]

OK, getting a little specific, as we all know what sparked this thread, but here it is: people who post here who did not get into Sandman, I get. That I can understand. But after listening to almost all the iFanboy podcasts, I am left wondering: why would Ron not love this book, and its not like he doesn't have someone who can loan him the trades even, or at least fill him enough about who is who and where the run is good, and all that.

The only thing I can think of this, going back to my own experience when Sandman hit back in the 90s: People who might share Ron's taste in music, if they read comics, probably only read Sandman, and might have belittled Ron's taste in comics, which right there can set someone up to be predisposed to not like something even before reading it.

This is totally wild speculation on my part, I know that, but Ron not liking Death and Matthew the Raven, and all the other stuff if he actually reads it? This I don't get. I am stumped for an answer...

i bet you now that he has to read, he'll probably enjoy it. but i dont think its the content that turns him off but the whole scene that was associated with it at the time, and now he has a stigma against the book. i know i have some unnatural hatred for some things for no good reason. its just a shame because he'd probably enjoy it (at least thats what i gather from his tastes on the podcasts)

[acomicbookgirl]

What's wrong with black nail polish? I know its a Goth thing like that but I like the way it looks on long nails.. Don't ask.

Anywho, from what I read of Sandman and the people I know who've read it, it seems like that's his best comic wise. I liked 1602. Was it the best thing since sliced bread? No. I've heard that people consider him a better writing novels than comic books.. I mean what comic did he do that measured up to Sandman? I've asked that question to Neil Gaiman fans and they don't have an answer...

[ronxo]

http://www.nndb.com/people/517/000024445/robert-smith.jpg

[mikegraham6]

http://www.nndb.com/people/517/000024445/robert-smith.jpg

so ron, how are you enjoying the sandman:D

[drwally]

What's wrong with black nail polish? I know its a Goth thing like that but I like the way it looks on long nails.. Don't ask.

And I know many that would agree, no questions need be asked. Again, I wonder if its that many of Ron's friends who he knows through shared music tastes belittled X-Men and costumed heros? I know mine do. And not a few of them liked Sandman... Stigma is awful when it turns off people so something they would actually like, and I think Ron would like Sandman.

[ekval]

I think his novels are a bit overrated imho. Not bad or awful by any stretch, just not great, at least not the 2 or 3 I've read.

[tokenuser]

I think his novels are a bit overrated imho. Not bad or awful by any stretch, just not great, at least not the 2 or 3 I've read.Go read "Good Omens" - it is one of the best books you will have read in ages. I am about to go road tripping later this week, and will be packing it to re-read.

Neverwhere was also good. Not such a fan of American Gods.

[drwally]

http://www.nndb.com/people/517/000024445/robert-smith.jpg

Yeah, I think we got his attention now...

"AWESOME picture, dude...and TOTALLY cool music collection...but what's with all this weird comic stuff...aren't Batman and Robin like totally gay? And what's with all this X-Men stuff? Isn't that for kids"

[xyzzy]

Go read "Good Omens" - it is one of the best books you will have read in ages. I am about to go road tripping later this week, and will be packing it to re-read.

Neverwhere was also good. Not such a fan of American Gods.


See, I thought Good Omens was passable at best, but American Gods was top notch. Good Omens, to me, just felt like old material that we've seen a dozen times before. For something like that, I'll go with Tom Holt or Christopher Moore, instead.

[ronxo]

Actually alot of my music friends were into comics too - A lot of the hardcore/punk type people were very much into comics, varying from X-Men to Sandman. In fact I was turned on to Preacher by a friend of mine who sang in a hardcore band.

Why do you think I would like Sandman? That statement intrigues me far more than wondering why the deal with black nailpolish is (Which I have no problem with BTW )

[tokenuser]

See, I thought Good Omens was passable at best, but American Gods was top notch. Good Omens, to me, just felt like old material that we've seen a dozen times before. For something like that, I'll go with Tom Holt or Christopher Moore, instead.I think the problem is that you read it too late. Good Omens was released in 1990, and thats about when I read it. Holt and Moore both came along after this (early 90's still, but still later).

American Gods was an OK book, but I thought it was cliched as well. Neverwhere on the otherhand was amazing.

[kwok_talk]

Neverwhere on the otherhand was amazing.

I was not impressed with that book. I haven't really thought that he's been more than an ok novel writer.

[xyzzy]

I think the problem is that you read it too late. Good Omens was released in 1990, and thats about when I read it. Holt and Moore both came along after this (early 90's still, but still later).

American Gods was an OK book, but I thought it was cliched as well. Neverwhere on the otherhand was amazing.

That makes it interesting from a historical perspective, but the only thing that I really care about is how it reads now. And to me, it just seems like something that's been done better by other authors.

Neverwhere was pretty good.

[horatio616]

And I know many that would agree, no questions need be asked. Again, I wonder if its that many of Ron's friends who he knows through shared music tastes belittled X-Men and costumed heros? I know mine do. And not a few of them liked Sandman... Stigma is awful when it turns off people so something they would actually like, and I think Ron would like Sandman.

I hate it when people get all culture snob. It's okay to like crap, or even if it's not crap, stuff that's not considered "intellectual". You can like fluff and not be stupid.

[antifanboy-jon]

Actually alot of my music friends were into comics too - A lot of the hardcore/punk type people were very much into comics, varying from X-Men to Sandman. In fact I was turned on to Preacher by a friend of mine who sang in a hardcore band.

Why do you think I would like Sandman? That statement intrigues me far more than wondering why the deal with black nailpolish is (Which I have no problem with BTW )

I think you would like sandman for the same reasons I think you would like fables. its just good effin writing. I can't see your taste veer too far off from Josh's. Maybe I am biased towards Josh cause we like the same titles, but seriously, he doesn't read local, and you do. and local is my strawberry jam.

[horatio616]

See, I thought Good Omens was passable at best, but American Gods was top notch. Good Omens, to me, just felt like old material that we've seen a dozen times before. For something like that, I'll go with Tom Holt or Christopher Moore, instead.

Ah, Tom Holt... I read Snow White and the Seven Samuri recently, which sounds like a great idea, but it didn't do much for me. It was cute in parts but it all seemed rather pointless. It's turned me off from reading similiar books like Good Omens or Wicked, which sounds pretty similar.

[xyzzy]

Ah, Tom Holt... I read Snow White and the Seven Samuri recently, which sounds like a great idea, but it didn't do much for me. It was cute in parts but it all seemed rather pointless. It's turned me off from reading similiar books like Good Omens or Wicked, which sounds pretty similar.

While I've enjoyed his work, Holt is really uneven and has written some real stinkers. I haven't read that one, in particular, but I'm not surprised.

I liked Expecting Someone Taller and The Portable Door.

[drwally]

People have said they don't like the first Sandman trade, but I did... I thought it was just good, and it's the only trade of mine (beside the Books of Magic) that I've read three times. If you don't like that, or one other Josh recommends, then off you go to other titles.

And, after hearing you on the podcast so many times, people just get to know you. And, like we do, time for you to take an "awesome" leap of faith on a recommendation from people you trust...

[drwally]

And if you were going to make the "awesome" promise, you really didn't have to break it quite so many times...and recorded, and podcast all over...

Worst Case Scenario: You develop an informed view of Sandman beyond the sterotype.

Best Case Scenario: You love it, and read stuff you enjoy. And you can say "awesome" as many times as you want...

And Death (the sister) is just sitting there, in Josh's collection... I would love to hear your take on that.

[humphrey-lee]

I love how now we're in an era of tearing things down in comics. "Watchmen is overrated", "Sandman is for whiny kids in black makeup", "Frank Miller's lost his mind".

Bullshit, all of it.

I like how only in comics this seems to happen, that everyone decides they need to tear down stuff that has remained popular from ten or twenty or even thirty years ago. Like, how often do you see people going out of their way to rip down The Godfather's 1 & 2 as "overrated and done better since"? Or man, do those Beatles sure suck. It's like no one can appreciate the impact these have had, or can actually put themselves in the mindset of the period when these things first showed up just to see how important they are. What's next? In 10 more years are we gonna say Preacher was gratuitious drivel? New Frontier was too retro for it's own good?

I hate the word overrated. It's overrated. I guarantee if that was stricken from all languages, 90% of people's "critiques" on, well, anything would disappear with it.

There's good writing, there's bad writing, and there's writing you don't enjoy. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's bad, and just because you do like it doesn't mean it's good. But I've read a metric shit-ton of comic books and I say that 99% of the comics we read right now wish on their best day that they could be as good as Watchmen and Sandman were on their worst.

Yeehaw...

[drwally]

Yeehaw...

Now THAT is a good rant. YYYYYEEEEEEEE-HHAAAAAHH!

I'm with Humphrey.

[horatio616]

And Death (the sister) is just sitting there, in Josh's collection... I would love to hear your take on that.

I read Death: The High Cost of Living years ago and remember enjoying it quite a bit.

[horatio616]

I love how now we're in an era of tearing things down in comics. "Watchmen is overrated", "Sandman is for whiny kids in black makeup", "Frank Miller's lost his mind".

Like, how often do you see people going out of their way to rip down The Godfather's 1 & 2 as "overrated and done better since"? Or man, do those Beatles sure suck.

I don't like Frank Miller's current work and I don't care for the Beatles.

I hadn't seen the Godfather I and II until recently, and while they're a bit slower than what I'm used to, I like them a lot.

[drwally]

Actually alot of my music friends were into comics too - A lot of the hardcore/punk type people were very much into comics, varying from X-Men to Sandman. In fact I was turned on to Preacher by a friend of mine who sang in a hardcore band.

Why do you think I would like Sandman? That statement intrigues me far more than wondering why the deal with black nailpolish is (Which I have no problem with BTW )

Ron, you're wonderful, seem like the little brother I wish I had, you seem like an extremely well rounded and ever dependable friend when in need...

...and that quote of yours + about 5 "awesomes" just makes the case stronger -- time to enter the world of Sandman. And Death is pretty hot, too...

[drwally]

Actually alot of my music friends were into comics too - A lot of the hardcore/punk type people were very much into comics, varying from X-Men to Sandman. In fact I was turned on to Preacher by a friend of mine who sang in a hardcore band.

Why do you think I would like Sandman? That statement intrigues me far more than wondering why the deal with black nailpolish is (Which I have no problem with BTW )

Ron, you're wonderful, seem like the little brother I wish I had, you seem like an extremely well rounded and ever dependable friend when in need...

...and that quote of yours + about 5 or more "awesomes" just makes the case stronger -- IF those friends were into Sandman, the title that made so much that came after possible, and friends of yours loved it, what's your excuse? time to enter the world of Sandman. And Death is pretty hot, too...

Everybody loves Death. Sounds like a strange statement, but anybody who knows Sandman gets it. Time to take the plunge...

[mikegraham6]

I love how now we're in an era of tearing things down in comics. "Watchmen is overrated", "Sandman is for whiny kids in black makeup", "Frank Miller's lost his mind".

Bullshit, all of it.

I like how only in comics this seems to happen, that everyone decides they need to tear down stuff that has remained popular from ten or twenty or even thirty years ago. Like, how often do you see people going out of their way to rip down The Godfather's 1 & 2 as "overrated and done better since"? Or man, do those Beatles sure suck. It's like no one can appreciate the impact these have had, or can actually put themselves in the mindset of the period when these things first showed up just to see how important they are. What's next? In 10 more years are we gonna say Preacher was gratuitious drivel? New Frontier was too retro for it's own good?

I hate the word overrated. It's overrated. I guarantee if that was stricken from all languages, 90% of people's "critiques" on, well, anything would disappear with it.

There's good writing, there's bad writing, and there's writing you don't enjoy. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's bad, and just because you do like it doesn't mean it's good. But I've read a metric shit-ton of comic books and I say that 99% of the comics we read right now wish on their best day that they could be as good as Watchmen and Sandman were on their worst.

Yeehaw...

......okay, i didn't enjoy sandman or DKR as much as everyone else.....im not saying its bad, im just daying there are books out there that i enjoyed more. i still appreciate them and recognized that they are well written, just not my thing. SANDMAN- i dont like fantasy, its a taste thing
DKR- i like it, i really do, i just like year one A LOT better

[k-dizzle]

I have not read Sandman and it was rough for awhile because there is a Sandman spoof in Cerebus that goes into a bit of detail and refers to things in Sandman that might have made Cerebus a little funnier. I decided not to read it because EVERYONE who reads it, every single Sandman fan in the whole wide world is emo.

[mikegraham6]

People have said they don't like the first Sandman trade, but I did... I thought it was just good, and it's the only trade of mine (beside the Books of Magic) that I've read three times. If you don't like that, or one other Josh recommends, then off you go to other titles.

Wally, im glad i've finally met someone who, like me enjoyed that first sandman trade. i thought it was great, really creepy. the horror element of the first 2 trades were more up my alley than the later fantastical books. the scene in the diner with dr. destiny creeped the hell outta me!

[antifanboy-jon]

Wally, im glad i've finally met someone who, like me enjoyed that first sandman trade. i thought it was great, really creepy. the horror element of the first 2 trades were more up my alley than the later fantastical books. the scene in the diner with dr. destiny creeped the hell outta me!


I enjoyed it as well. The dr. destiny bit at the diner was one of the freakiest things ever of all time.

I probably wouldn't have read the rest of it if I didn't like it. It doesn't beat Season of Mists or the Kindly Ones though. I actually enjoyed all of it, now that I think of it.

[will_lund]

Wally, im glad i've finally met someone who, like me enjoyed that first sandman trade. i thought it was great, really creepy. the horror element of the first 2 trades were more up my alley than the later fantastical books. the scene in the diner with dr. destiny creeped the hell outta me!

Oh my god you're right. That diner scene still bothers me when I think about it. Also, the serial killer convention in the second trade was pure brilliance.

Personally, I don't think Sandman is all that emo. I know a lot of people, from videogamers to theatre drama queens, who really enjoyed it. I started reading it because I really enjoyed Gaiman's work on '1602' and decided to read something else he'd done. For a long time I didn't want to read it because my non-comic-loving sister read it years before I did. That was a stupid reason.

[mikegraham6]

Oh my god you're right. That diner scene still bothers me when I think about it. Also, the serial killer convention in the second trade was pure brilliance.

thats the best part of the second trade, and its my second favorite part of the entire series. those 2 scenes were the reasons i stuck on until the end of sandman. the Corinthian is another creepy ass bad guy!

[jgg0610]

i dont think ive ever met anyone who didn't enjoy preacher, but ive seen a lot of people who disliked sandman,
preacher, after watchmen, is my favorite all time comic book, its so damn fun and absurd.
i can see how someone who is really religious would probably hate it though, its pretty offensive.

im really looking forward to the HBO series, and thank god HBO is the one doing it! (they will probably get a lot of hate mail though)
You've met one now. I don't see what the big deal is with Preacher. It was strictly shock for shock value. There was nothing underlying it whatsoever. I wasn't offended by the religious stuff and I consider myself to be a Christian. It's just that there was no one likeable in that series period. It, like Sandman, is one of those series that if you read comics, is commonly accepted as one that you have to read, but I wished that I'd passed and spent the time rereading somthing like Watchmen.

[xyzzy]

You've met one now. I don't see what the big deal is with Preacher. It was strictly shock for shock value. There was nothing underlying it whatsoever. I wasn't offended by the religious stuff and I consider myself to be a Christian. It's just that there was no one likeable in that series period. It, like Sandman, is one of those series that if you read comics, is commonly accepted as one that you have to read, but I wished that I'd passed and spent the time rereading somthing like Watchmen.

Make it two.

I didn't hate Preacher or anything. If someone gave me copies I would probably finish reading it (I got about 4 volumes in). But I just didn't enjoy it enough to keep paying for it.

[jgg0610]

Make it two.

I didn't hate Preacher or anything. If someone gave me copies I would probably finish reading it (I got about 4 volumes in). But I just didn't enjoy it enough to keep paying for it.
I was lucky enough to borrow them from a friend of mine. She loaned me all of the Y trades up to that point and the condition was that I had to read Preacher as part of the deal. It just about killed me to get through it.

[humphrey-lee]

I have not read Sandman and it was rough for awhile because there is a Sandman spoof in Cerebus that goes into a bit of detail and refers to things in Sandman that might have made Cerebus a little funnier. I decided not to read it because EVERYONE who reads it, every single Sandman fan in the whole wide world is emo.

And all comic book fans are sad, fat little men who still live in their parents basements...

Of course, that stereotype is true :D

[jimski]

You know, I read my Local Public Library's copies of Sandman trades and really liked them, but I found that by the time they reached the story's "serial killer convention" arc I was too disturbed to go on. I meant to get back to it... but that was two years ago. With that in mind, I pretty much took Preacher off the ol' drawing board.

[mister-s]

I read them in issue form, monthly as they came out starting in about 92 and have not read them since. I'm not goth, have never been goth, and never will be goth.

[hebdomeros]

Go read "Good Omens" - it is one of the best books you will have read in ages. I am about to go road tripping later this week, and will be packing it to re-read.

Neverwhere was also good. Not such a fan of American Gods.

"Good Omens" is really more of a Terry Pratchett book; I've read it several times and I always have the feeling that Gaiman developed a lot of the plot points, but left all the good lines to Pratchett. It's totally Pratchett's humor and not Gaiman's.

I love "Neverwhere" (both the novel and the tv show) and like "American Gods", but I have to agree he's not the brilliant writer reviewers paint him as. Great concepts, certainly. Entertaining, sure. But I always feel a little cheated by endings that are just a little too neat and commercial. I would probably say the same thing about a lot of Sandman (although it's worth reading if you've never seen it). The whole series, though, is worth it just to see the Corinthian at the Serial Killers convention.

[jgg0610]

The wife is gone tonight so I decided to watch the Korn Unplugged that I've had sitting on the DVR for several days. Imagine my surprise when Johnathan Davis introduced a guest act by saying that this band was pretty much "the soundtrack to my life" and Robert Smith and the Cure came out. It was very creepy. Has anyone else seen this?

[fred]

The wife is gone tonight so I decided to watch the Korn Unplugged that I've had sitting on the DVR for several days. Imagine my surprise when Johnathan Davis introduced a guest act by saying that this band was pretty much "the soundtrack to my life" and Robert Smith and the Cure came out. It was very creepy. Has anyone else seen this?

I totally believe that. He's so weepy. It worked on the first album but successively has gotten more and more tiring.

[jgg0610]

Also, it wasn't the black finger nail polish that scared me, it was the bright red lipstick.

[kwok_talk]

Also, it wasn't the black finger nail polish that scared me, it was the bright red lipstick.

A guy I know had hair like his in high school. Scary.

(I actually like the Cure, please don't hurt me)

[jgg0610]

A guy I know had hair like his in high school. Scary.

(I actually like the Cure, please don't hurt me)
I won't hurt you. I don't have an opinion one way or the other. I've never heard enough of their music to make a judgement.

[fred]

I won't hurt you. I don't have an opinion one way or the other. I've never heard enough of their music to make a judgement.

I've got a funny Cure related story. There's this band called Sheer Terror that does a cover of Boys Don't Cry that for whatever reason I absoultely love. It's so ****ing great. Anyway, in the intervening years since hearing the ST version for the first time it's become the version in my mind. About two weeks ago, the original came on the radio and I nearly vomited. I never remembered it being that utterly awful. I threw up in my mouth a little.

[k-dizzle]

I've got a funny Cure related story. There's this band called Sheer Terror that does a cover of Boys Don't Cry that for whatever reason I absoultely love. It's so ****ing great. Anyway, in the intervening years since hearing the ST version for the first time it's become the version in my mind. About two weeks ago, the original came on the radio and I nearly vomited. I never remembered it being that utterly awful. I threw up in my mouth a little. I really liked the Cure in high school, I can remember rounding third base while fascination street blared in the back ground. AHH the good ol days.

[mikegraham6]

so i just finished reading the eternals mini series by gaiman. i put off reading it until i got them all and then i read them all together. i found this book to have started really strong but lost a lot of momentum near the end. i dont know if you guys noticed but it was initially a six issue mini but they tacted on a seventh issue when the sixth one was released. you could tell the extra issue was a money grab because the story pretty much finished in the sixth and the seventh went absolutely nowhere (unless they plan on setting up a regular series, which, due to sales, doesn't look likely).
Has anyone read the Kirby original series? the book seems to be very much in the "cosmic" kirby feel. i had no idea who these characters were and my only exposure to the celestials were in the Earth X miniseries (an underrated miniseries) where the whole concept was used in a very interesting way.
The gaiman mini wasn't bad, its just a shame that it went downhill after issue 5. Personally i've noticed that Gaiman comic work has been going steadily downhill throughout his career, although the process has been a very slow progression.
This mini wasn't as good a 1602 which wasn't as good as sandman which wasn't as good as miracleman, but of course thats just my opinion (i haven't read anything else by him to the best of my knowledge)
So what do you guys think of this mini and his other works? or the eternal characters in general? (just trying to spark some conversation on a slow night :D )

[snowoxx]

I am thinking about getting into sandman, but watching the sandman episode and reading a tad quickly makes me kind of iffy about it. It seems semi confusing. Is that how the book is?