Leo's comments about Diggnation on TWiT 92.

[trvr]

on the most recent episode of TWiT [ http://www.twit.tv/92 ], about starting at the 16:20 mark, Leo talks about Diggnation promoting teenage drinking.

Just curious, what are your thoughts? Personally, the drinking doesn't affect me at all (I'm 18), but I might be an anomaly.

[glugory]

At one point Leo says that Kevin said that they were gonna start phasing out the drinking aspect of the show. I really hope that's not true.

[bayareaking510]

damn impressionable kids...

[jon]

I believe it's labeled as explicit on iTunes. If so, kids shouldn't be watching the show in the first place.

[masherscf]

I think that you're possibly misrepresenting Leo's concerns. He was concerned about portraying binge drinking and drunkenness to an underage audience. He didn't accuse Diggnation of promoting teenage drinking specifically. His opinions are valid as far as they go.

There is a huge perceived problem with binge drinking on college campuses. This is a nationwide phenomena that has more to do with successful beer marketing than Diggnation.

Another culprit is parents not teaching their teenage children about social drinking and responsible drinking habits. Just like sex and drugs, responsible drinking is something that should be spoken of in the home. Indeed, while you shouldn't be doing drugs are having sex with your kids, allowing your teenage children age-appropriate drinking in family social situations is probably a good idea. The idea of prohibiting teenagers from any alcoholic consumption is an invitation to binge drinking as soon as their out the door.

The parents should also provide the proper examples. When Dad power-drinks a six pack every night after work, the teenager is gonna be keen to try it to.

[magunwarrior]

Pay me no mind, wrong thread.

[ericjosepi]

Dude, as a college student, the drinking they do on diggnation (outside of reno) has done nothing to promote drinking for me.

Masher: My parent's were good examples. I think that helped.

The last time I actually regretted drinking (this Sunday: all day hangover) has taught me that I have limits and I prefer social and "responsible" drinking to getting blindly smashed! Also that a drink containing 1/3 Crown + 1/3 Wisers + Western Honey Brown Ale + 50 mL of Coke is EVIL!

[philoking]

I am just kind of curious if Kevin or Alex has commented on this? I was listening to This Week in Tech (www.twit.tv) this morning at work and heard this comment, it was said as respectfully as possible, but it's still quite a stunning comment...thoughts?

[philoking]

You posted this 1 minute (basically during) before I posted the same question. haha.

[floris]

Yeah, I just heard it. I think it's not a big problem.... He said he pointed that out, that's all. Kevin can take the feedback and ignore it or do something about it. Drinking a beer, hanging out on the couch .. that's just a way it goes. They're not binge drinking. They're not constantly drinking daily, going out and going places with friends and the focus isn't on the drinking itself.

It's about having a good time. Leo is just a concerned father. I can imagine that - parents also want you to be home early.

[philoking]

I didn't think it was at all mean or digging (excuse the pun) I was just surprised he said it in such a public forum. He is a nice guy and loves the show. But he is a dad too...can't blame him, at least he doesn't kiss ass and he is honest.

[lsman11]

i want to see an episode when they do shots

or at least a live episode, that would turn into a money party

[magunwarrior]

i want to see an episode when they do shots

or at least a live episode, that would turn into a money party

*Points to Reno episode*

[lsman11]

thankyaaaa very much

going with: http://revision3.com/diggnation/2006-03-23
episode #38... dnloading now.

thx for info
:cool:


*Points to Reno episode*

[dremmy]

They've stated before that pretty much the only time they really drink is when they do the show. And that it's only for the show that they do it.

We've all seen episodes where they haven't drank enough, and episodes where they are smashed out of their minds... which one's were dug the most?

[thesimo]

I believe it's labeled as explicit on iTunes. If so, kids shouldn't be watching the show in the first place.

exactly, the tiki bar guys said this is why it makes their show okay, but diggnation is explicit too, so i dont really get leo's point

[drukqs]

I didn't even want to comment on this dumb idea of stopping the drinking on diggnation. Its just stupid, its part of the show, and the part i love the best. I probably wouldn't watch it if they didn't drink, cause the shows where they got teas and such really sucked, and i don't want a repeat of that. Plus every saturday night i like comeing home from the bars, cracking a New Castle Brown Ale and enjoying the comedy. Please don't stop......

[tokenuser]

a drink containing 1/3 Crown + 1/3 Wisers + Western Honey Brown Ale + 50 mL of Coke is EVIL!You are in college. You need to take the experiment further.

Scotch + coke = hangover.
Bourbon + coke = hangover.
rum + coke = hangover.
kahlua + coke = hangover.

Starting to see a trend here? COKE is EVIL. The only common ingredient was Coke, so eliminating the coke will make everything OK.

FWIW (nothing) I am OK if I stick to beer. Or beer and perhaps wine with a meal (love steak and red wine). I am also OK if I drink mixed drinks all night, BUT the minute I have beer plus mixed drinks, or wine plus mixed drinks, it doesn't end well.

[racerx135]

If we are worried about promoting teenage drinking how about all the Beer ads on TV during NFL or Other Sports games. also "Winston Cup" Whats up with that?

If they stop drinking on the show I will be dissapointed and I do not drink at all. I just like to watch these two get hammered and talk tech. It is their hook and if they remove it Diggnation will be just another tech show. I will still watch it but I think some will may not.

[xibalba]

Isn't sugar a big contributer to hangovers? Since Coke is full of it I would say anything with it = Hangover.

[rabidbadger]

Dude, as a college student, the drinking they do on diggnation (outside of reno) has done nothing to promote drinking for me.

Masher: My parent's were good examples. I think that helped.

The last time I actually regretted drinking (this Sunday: all day hangover) has taught me that I have limits and I prefer social and "responsible" drinking to getting blindly smashed! Also that a drink containing 1/3 Crown + 1/3 Wisers + Western Honey Brown Ale + 50 mL of Coke is EVIL!

OK. That explains a lot. :p

[rabidbadger]

Isn't sugar a big contributer to hangovers? Since Coke is full of it I would say anything with it = Hangover.

Yeah, my ex moved from beer to rum+diet-coke. Still gets the buzz, doesn't gain the weight (in fact lost 30 lbs since we broke up, the bastard) and has incredibly minor hangovers. Gotta be the sugar.

And back on topic. Leo is well meaning. I really like him. Total sweetheart, but he is wrong on this. He spent the most recent ep talking about podcasts and their niche audiences, not thinking that Diggnation has a niche audience of people who like drunken tech news and discussion.

Personally I think part of Kevin Rose's genius is that he knows his audience and plays to it. He is too smart to let a few beers during work hours screw up the good thing he has created.

I, for one, am entirely envious.

[xibalba]

I been watching Diggnation every since the first ep. 1 hasn't influenced me to drink I rarely drink.

Isn't rum made from sugar(sugarcane) by-products so it seems like it would cause a bad hangover even with diet coke. Mmmm wish I had some cream soda and vodka right now.

[rowlodge]

as long as its funny, but would i watch if there were two passed out guys on the couch?...no, (unless it was funny)

[rpgaction]

No offense to anybody, but it really irks me whenever people talk about the impressionability of minors. Like all (or even most) of us are complete morons who instantly find the need to replicate whatever we see somebody we look up to do without thinking. I just don't believe that people can possibly be so stupid. We have the ability to think for ourselves, and we generally exercise it (most of us, anyways - especially the ones you would find watching this podcast in the first place).

[rabidbadger]

No offense to anybody, but it really irks me whenever people talk about the impressionability of minors. Like all (or even most) of us are complete morons who instantly find the need to replicate whatever we see somebody we look up to do without thinking. I just don't believe that people can possibly be so stupid. We have the ability to think for ourselves, and we generally exercise it (most of us, anyways - especially the ones you would find watching this podcast in the first place).

As the official old fart of rev3 I must put in my couple of shiny pennies here. And it will surprise you.

(maybe)

I totally, 100% agree.

Children, teens, young adults are NOT IDIOTS. Despite the things they (you) haven't experienced (or maybe have) they have witnessed a lot. They have seen parent, relatives, older siblings, friends and strangers try/fail/succeed at many things: love, lust, careers, school, marriage, divorce, drinking, drugs, sex, violence, arrests. Sometime through direct experience, sometimes through the media. But youngsters Are Not Stupid.

One of the main things about newborns, infants, toddlers, children, is that the absorb anything and everything. Extrapolate this to teenagers and young adults and you have generally a well rounded, hopeful, idealistic population of the next generation who have mostly absorbed the goodness, positivity, and empathy/sympathy that has created "society" from the early days.

Think about it. If (young) people were so easily seduced by the negative would communities, societies, cities and nations ever even happen? If every "tribe" had teens emulating the negative could they ever evolve into the decent, caring societies we have?

Sure, there are pockets of evil everywhere, and some young folk may be seduced by such, but the numbers are low, and they always, at some point, will be caught, tried, convicted and imprisoned by the those of us who chose good over evil.

That being said: Damn. Did I get off topic or what?

[sugarsickness]

Think about it. If (young) people were so easily seduced by the negative would communities, societies, cities and nations ever even happen? If every "tribe" had teens emulating the negative could they ever evolve into the decent, caring societies we have? Times are slightly different now that we have these established communities, societies, cities, and nations. Now people are exposed to the negativity that is present all over the planet. oooooooverlooaaaaad.

[yourestillmycaesar]

I love Leo, but seriously. No. Haha.

I'm a teenager... and have been the entire time I've watched this show. Clearly. And I've never been like "So Kevin and Alex drink... that means I should too!!!!!" because seriously. No.

I mean, sure, I drink (illegally) upon occasion. Not because of Diggnation though.

Us teens, we're not that retarded.

[magunwarrior]

Yeah all you teenagers are totally retarded...wait a minute.

[rabidbadger]

Times are slightly different now that we have these established communities, societies, cities, and nations. Now people are exposed to the negativity that is present all over the planet. oooooooverlooaaaaad.

True. But that doesn't negate my point. We look at these negative things happening all over the world, thanks to our hypbermedia, but still our natural empathy kicks in. We (despite age) know that it is wrong simply because we don't want such violence happening to ourselves, our families, our friends, neigbors, communities, nations. Anywhere. We feel for the people who these violeces are happening to. And we want it to stop.

All humanity would have stopped ages ago if this natural instinctual love for each other didn't exist. The first human would have killed the second so the first couldn't connect, breed, form a family, see an extended family. Love them, want them to succeed.

Ad infinitum...

Like I have said before. And will say always. People are generally good.

Even Teenagers.

[ericjosepi]

All humanity would have stopped ages ago if this natural instinctual love for each other didn't exist. The first human would have killed the second so the first couldn't connect, breed, form a family, see an extended family. Love them, want them to succeed.

Ad infinitum...

Like I have said before. And will say always. People are generally good.

Even Teenagers.

Here is something I wrote at the age of 17, 2 years and one month ago to the day. This, in my opinion, is one of the best things I have written as I feel it sums up so many emotions that I was dealing with all at once. (Should I just say "Emo Warning?") This is kind of geared towards what SugarSickness is talking about as well as badger's response.

I want a new life guys. I need a new house, a new name, a new income, a new place with the newest of comforts to me. I sounds so shallow but this is how I feel. I can't take life anymore. I want out. I want to cash in my chips and go home. Some one. Help me.

Help me. Help me change, help me grow, help me adjust. Please. Anyone. I'm really begging you. Make me NEW! Make me... me. Tear me apart put me back, just help me. Kill me. **** politics. **** love. **** it all. I no longer want this. I want a new me. I want the old me. I want everything and nothing. I want love. I want politics. I don't know anymore. I want a man. I want a woman. I want everyone. Just please. Want me? Tear apart me and want me. I don't exist. This is what I look like when I relapse. This is what I look like when the therapy has worked. No I'm not cured. Save me.

If you don't want me to write about you then stay the **** out of my life. If I don't write about you and you feel I should I'm sorry. I love you all. I hate you all. You're all so perfectly flawed. I wish I could kiss you all. I wish I could slit your throats. You all know who I reference too.

...

Where will I fight? Where? Give me a battle ground. Give me a place where I am not a failure. Give me a place where I lose all but my life and can claim my victory.

That's where I was 10:01 pm Sunday February 27, 2005. Pretty heavy at 17. I think it explains a lot of what kids go through, but not all of them. This was just the perspective of one (still) confused boy in a very large universe. Strangely though, I'm a lot more peaceful than I was back then. Kids are dealing with a lot of shit these days and I rag on them incessantly because I was JUST there. I'm slowly starting to get the answers that I want but I'm never going to find them all. I don't want to.

I do agree with you badger, that people need and are largely driven by love. It's the one force that keeps things moving in the world. I can't add much more to what you said. I think you summed it up very well.

[rabidbadger]

"Give me a battle ground."

For some reason this line struck me. Don't know why. But maybe I do; We all need our battle grounds. We all need to know, especially early in adult life, where we win and where we lose. How we grow and where we just. plain. stop.

We all have our limits. Our fears. Our obsessions and our escapes...

Part of being human on planet earth.

Eric.

You have a way with words. Do not give it up. Do not become a graphic designer, whatever....

Stay with words. Stay with stories and truths and emotions. You willl succeed with these. I know it.

You have something to say and I want to hear it.

Honestly...

-Joel

[rabidbadger]

You make me smile.
Been a while.

Very short poem.

[tokenuser]

Yeah all you teenagers are totally retarded...wait a minute.Yes you are ... I know I was. You know everything. Are never wrong. Problem is, you make mistakes (hey! how can you make mistakes if you are never wrong?) and provided you are not a complete 'tard you learn from them (wha? but how can you learn if you know everything already?).

Part of growing up. Some people grow up faster than others. I have met people that are in their 30s and still full time students (never held a job that wasn't "student oriented") that are just as clueless about "the real world" as most teenagers. I have also know people that left highschool at 16, moved out of home, gotten jobs and did a lot of growing up real fast.

So, generally, teenagers are retarded. But an adult that dismisses them or talks down to them because of their age is just as stupid.

[tokenuser]

on the most recent episode of TWiT [ http://www.twit.tv/92 ], about starting at the 16:20 mark, Leo talks about Diggnation promoting teenage drinking.

Just curious, what are your thoughts? Personally, the drinking doesn't affect me at all (I'm 18), but I might be an anomaly.As a long time TWiT listener and DN viewer, I think Leo is being more than a little hypocritical here.

Kevin and Alex promote binge drinking because they have a couple of beer on the set? Their set is a couch. It could be a couch in anyones home where two guys are sitting around talking shit on tech.

Leo sit behind a mike. He could be sitting there in his underwear for all we know. Same for all the other participants in their remote locations. We know both he and JCD enjoy a red wine. Hell, they even had a glass while on stage at live events - what makes you think they aren't enjoying an "adult beverage of choice" while doing TWiT? Because they aren't promoting it, doesn't mean they aren't doing it.

Kevin and Alex have to be up front about it because they ARE drinking on the show. Its part of the reason the show gets an explicit tag on iTunes - adult content is not only language, it also captures drug, alcohol, and sex references.

So ... can we ban Homer going to Moe's for a Duff as well?

[mathguru1]

STFU Leo you old man!

[logant]

Would I watch it if they stopped drinking? Yes. When they are sober (or maybe they aren't I can't tell) they get into some interesting philosophical discussions.

[phatlip12]

Leo mentioned he smoked pot when he was younger on TWiT before. He also hinted that he took LSD. He's being kind of hypocritical.

[silentspyder]

Big fan of Twit. In fact Diggnation is 2nd to Twit in my book but still, I think he's wrong on this one. Aside from the live shows, there's no real binge drinking going on. Just some casual drinking and I think this show is targeted to the college people not so much teens. Also, every teen drinks. The best you can do is let them know to drink in moderation.

[guagloves]

I don't think Kevin & Alex binge drink, they just enjoy drinking much like any older college student or people like them.

They usually don't go through many beers per episode but when they were on cranky geeks Alex did have like 4 or 5 Coronas in the course of about 30 minutes.

Again I don't think its binge drinking, the two of them just seem to really enjoy beer.

[phatlip12]

If Leo considers Diggnation binge drinking he should stay a mile away from some of my friends...

[rhett803]

If we are worried about promoting teenage drinking how about all the Beer ads on TV during NFL or Other Sports games. also "Winston Cup" Whats up with that?


Uh....Winston stopped sponsering Nasca a long time ago. It's Nextel Cup Racing now.

The show has an explicit warning. If you don't like the beer, don't watch. It's like going to see a rated R movie anc complaining about language/violence.

[kbraaten]

i see both sides of this...
like i am the son of a recovering alcoholic, i see what it can do to people
but i still go out on weekends and get drunk and stuff, not the end of the world
but this, they are sitting on a couch, have a couple beer making a show... having a good time
some of the jokes and stuff they make on the show probably isn't the best thing for a 12 year old kid to be hearing either
and as mentioned before it's labeled explicit on itunes...
i think the beef of the shows audience is old and mature enough to know their views on drinking...
whatever i think im starting to ramble haha

anyways, it's a kick ass show and at the end of the day that's what matters to me

[capo327]

Well I've been watching Diggnation almost since the beginning, and except for a few sips of beer/champagne when I was younger and the wine I drink at Church, I've never touched alcohol. As a teen I'm pretty much in the know of how we work. I have never seen anyone start drinking because they saw it on TV or in a movie. I've only seen people drink because they were curious or because they were trying to fit in. I've met people that drink to numb pain. And the amount of teens I know that binge drink is not that high at all. Just because we're younger doesn't mean we're stupider.

[nextgenxbox]

I don't drink, never have and never will. Yet I have seen all diggnation episodes and not once did I say, "Hmm... that beer looks good."

[samureye]

I've been saying we need some sort of rating system for these IP shows, but at the end of the day, Leo is not as great of a "friend" of Revision3's as you would think thanks to the TechTV days. Things change.

[rabidbadger]

...Leo is not as great of a "friend" of Revision3's as you would think thanks to the TechTV days. Things change.

What makes you say that? Honestly curious.

[ericjosepi]

Well, Kevin hasn't been on TWiT for what 50 episodes now?

[rabidbadger]

but some of the other Rev3 guys have, that lovely prager guy. Not really recently, but within the last few months. And Leo often uses rev3/digg as an example of either success or notoriety when talking about web/podcast stuff.

[casework]

Leo is the god of the internet. Didn't you hear?

[ihatecrayons]

Well, I am 16, and I don't think this has encouraged me to drink. Especially not beer, beer tastes nasty (I am sorry. it just does).

And, even if I wasn't underage, I don't see diggnation as promoting binge drinking at all. Kevin and Alex have said before that it's not like they drink that much every day.

And even if they did, it's just a few beers. People do much worse every day.

Oh, and it is labeled "explicit" on iTunes for a reason. But if you are like me and don't download it from iTunes, then you really don't see the "explicit" label.

[ctrl-alt-tristan]

teens are goona drink if theres a diggnation or not its doesnt matter

[masherscf]

teens are goona drink if theres a diggnation or not its doesnt matter

I don't know if it's a matter under eighteen drinking. But, under eighteen drinking is illegal and Diggnation isn't made for teens anyway.

However, there is a gray area were you're not yet legal to buy or posses alcohol but you probably have no trouble finding it.

I think the concern was more toward the portrayal of recreation binge drinking to adults of college age who may be legal drinkers or not. Regardless of legality, these people drink and Diggnation doesn't have much to do with it.

[rabidbadger]

Yeah. They are more of a mirror than a window.