Fred's This Week In Comics *Now With Cake and Ice Cream

[iSteve]

haven't seen Ramos' stuff but Bachalo is just outright awful! Awful!

...but I love it so!

[conorkilpatrick]

It's interesting how one person's art is another person's piece of crap.

I'm amazed at how divergent our views are here on what constitutes good art. We seem to have an easier time agreeing on writers than on artists.

That's the absolute beauty of art.

[conorkilpatrick]

you just say that shit to piss me off

Of course. But I also believe it. :)

[jgg0610]

It's interesting how one person's art is another person's piece of crap.

I'm amazed at how divergent our views are here on what constitutes good art. We seem to have an easier time agreeing on writers than on artists.
I hadn't noticed it before but you're spot on. That brings up an interesting question: Is good vs. bad art more subjective than good vs. bad writing?

[fred]

haven't seen Ramos' stuff but Bachalo is just outright awful! Awful!

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u116/fredhosley/rogue.gif

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u116/fredhosley/blinky.gif

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u116/fredhosley/wolvieJay.gif

[fred]

Of course. But I also believe it. :)

rabble-rouser

[jgg0610]

And Jay Leno has made his weekly appearance at Ifanboy.

[fred]

I hadn't noticed it before but you're spot on. That brings up an interesting question: Is good vs. bad art more subjective than good vs. bad writing?

I don't believe either is more subjective. We all just are closer on writers. One of the reasons the gap seems large is because of all the new things/chances people are taking with comic pencils these days.

[fred]

And Jay Leno has made his weekly appearance at Ifanboy.

Eh True story Kevin, did you hear this?

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u116/fredhosley/Jay.jpg

[acomicbookgirl]

...but I love it so!


To each their own...

[iSteve]

I hadn't noticed it before but you're spot on. That brings up an interesting question: Is good vs. bad art more subjective than good vs. bad writing?

I tend to think that art is more subjective. It's aesthetic appeals more to personal tastes whereas writing tends to adhere or not to a generally agreed upon storytelling structure against which it can be judged.

[acomicbookgirl]

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u116/fredhosley/rogue.gif

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u116/fredhosley/wolvieJay.gif

Not so bad.. But I don't think the art is suitable for an X-men comic... I still find Bachalo outright awful... And I don't really say that about artists.. Wait there is another artist I don't like but i'm trying not to talk about a certain title on this board...

[jgg0610]

I tend to think that art is more subjective. It's aesthetic appeals more to personal tastes whereas writing tends to adhere or not to a generally agreed upon storytelling structure against which it can be judged.
And see that's where I think comic art is unique. The art of a comic serves very much to move the story forward. Good examples of this are Gaydos on Alias and Bagley on USM. Bad examples of this are anything X-Men from the 90's. With both Ramos and Bachalo art, I seriously have to study the pages to figure out where to go next. I find that be a very annoying thing when reading a comic.

[fred]

And see that's where I think comic art is unique. The art of a comic serves very much to move the story forward. Good examples of this are Gaydos on Alias and Bagley on USM. Bad examples of this are anything X-Men from the 90's. With both Ramos and Bachalo art, I seriously have to study the pages to figure out where to go next. I find that be a very annoying thing when reading a comic.

I have a hard time following Bachalo-pencilled books as well

[labor_days]

bachalo is terrible as well, just not as terrible
With both Ramos and Bachalo art, I seriously have to study the pages to figure out where to go next. I find that be a very annoying thing when reading a comic.
Gods, yes.

Go get 'em, boys.

[mikegraham6]

some probably would argue that but I would argue that this is what keeps mk from being 'a big star'

if Moon Knight didn't have his mental issues i don't think anyone would care about him. what does he have to offer over any other character in the marvel u besides this? without the split personality he's basically daredevil with sight, completely uninteresting. what would you want MK to be to elevate him to that next level? I think if you get rid of the his schizophrenia then he would lose what little fans he already has and wouldn't gain any.

(again this comes from a guy who sole knowledge of the character comes from a wizard article calling him the most underused character in the marvel u)

[mikegraham6]

for me (and i know how horrible this sounds) but art is really secondary, i care way more about the stories being written. as long as the art is passable im happy, rarely do i complain unless the scale is off or there are ridiculously glaring errors. on the other i can appreciate good art and i feel that when bachelo is properly reigned in he can really contribute to the story. but when he is allowed to let loose, his stuff can be incomprehensible, so i feel he is hit or miss.
I have mixed feelings about ramos as well. some panels of his i think are great, cartoony can work. but there are some that do look atrocious (like the ones posted by fred). his art isn't a selling point for me but it also wont make me turn away. i think it works with certain stories. the wolverine book is a good example. that story was so overthetop that his art fitted it perfectly.

[mikegraham6]

Cable & Deadpool #39

This is the first time I’ve read this comic. I let Fred talk me into buying it. I didn’t know what the @#$% was going on for most of the issue, but loved the humor – some whacky fun. I may give it another try next issue.

i've really got to get back on this series, i read it a few years back and loved it but then i had to drop it for monetary reasons. now that i have cash again maybe i'll pick up some trades. Damn is it a helluva lot of fun! i do really enjoy how deadpool breaks the fourth wall and talks to the reader, i always enjoy when comics don't take themselves to serious and aren't written by scott lobdell
which reminds me, i need to get the second trade of nextwave as well, another book that doesn't take its self seriously and is a really fun (but short) read

[fred]

I'm usually largely unaffected by pencils. The reason it seems that I'm am, or may seem anyway, is that the top 10% and bottom 10% stand so far out from the middle 80 that I tend to obsess on them.

[mikegraham6]

I'm usually largely unaffected by pencils. The reason it seems that I'm am, or may seem anyway, is that the top 10% and bottom 10% stand so far out from the middle 80 that I tend to obsess on them.

i feel the exact same way, i dont hate or love a lot but the stuff i do, im really adament about

[alexg]

for me (and i know how horrible this sounds) but art is really secondary, i care way more about the stories being written. as long as the art is passable im happy, rarely do i complain unless the scale is off or there are ridiculously glaring errors. on the other i can appreciate good art and i feel that when bachelo is properly reigned in he can really contribute to the story. but when he is allowed to let loose, his stuff can be incomprehensible, so i feel he is hit or miss.
I have mixed feelings about ramos as well. some panels of his i think are great, cartoony can work. but there are some that do look atrocious (like the ones posted by fred). his art isn't a selling point for me but it also wont make me turn away. i think it works with certain stories. the wolverine book is a good example. that story was so overthetop that his art fitted it perfectly.

I can understand where you're coming from. For me, I come from a different, although similar direction. If the art is bad, or doesn't grab me I won't read the book. The problem is that this is such a mutable, changeable thing for me. I might like one artist one week, and the next, not. The other issue for me is that (and I realize this sounds bad) but I lean towards artists I can copy. Since I have a career I like and no desire or plans to be a professional artist, I take a certain amount of pleasure in bootlegging art I like. It's fun for me and I learn so much by copying skilled people. I mostly copy chinese paintings, but lately have been leaning toward copying more comic art. If there is something in the art I'm reading that I want to bring out in my own art, I'll tend to buy the book--hence my recent Aquaman purchases (McManus pencils intrigue me right now). This is also the reason I haven't read Fables yet (please don't tell the Fables police on me, I realize I'm bad)-every time I pick up the first trade, the art just turns me off a bit-and I can't exactly pinpoint why.

[paper]

As long as the stapling's good....

[mikegraham6]

I can understand where you're coming from. For me, I come from a different, although similar direction. If the art is bad, or doesn't grab me I won't read the book. The problem is that this is such a mutable, changeable thing for me. I might like one artist one week, and the next, not. The other issue for me is that (and I realize this sounds bad) but I lean towards artists I can copy. Since I have a career I like and no desire or plans to be a professional artist, I take a certain amount of pleasure in bootlegging art I like. It's fun for me and I learn so much by copying skilled people. I mostly copy chinese paintings, but lately have been leaning toward copying more comic art. If there is something in the art I'm reading that I want to bring out in my own art, I'll tend to buy the book--hence my recent Aquaman purchases (McManus pencils intrigue me right now). This is also the reason I haven't read Fables yet (please don't tell the Fables police on me, I realize I'm bad)-every time I pick up the first trade, the art just turns me off a bit-and I can't exactly pinpoint why.
i hear you, i used to copy art all the time back in high school, i just wish i could have done it enough to develop my own style. the art in the aquaman ad looked amazing, i've honestly never seen something like that in a superhero comic before, it looked like something out of a lord of the rings painting. but i really didn't have any interest in the story or the character (i mean he's aquaman! who cares????) so i didn't by the book. good art for me is a bonus, but not a selling point.


now you made me want to go back to drawing;)

[fred]

the Fables police are nothing compared to the Sandman police who of course would be much more effective if they could ever cease weeping.

[acomicbookgirl]

The story is more important to me than the art.. The art is a factor but the story is what is gonna keep me reading it... Its very rare I buy something because of the artist.. Usually when I buy a comic, I have to love the writer first..

[fred]

in the middle 80% I'm with you

the top and bottom 10 can push me off or get me onto a book

examples: Quitely and Leifeld

[mikegraham6]

in the middle 80% I'm with you

the top and bottom 10 can push me off or get me onto a book

examples: Quitely and Leifeld

Daredevil co-written by Bendis and Brubaker but drawn by Liefeld.
Do you buy it???

i would

[paper]

That would never happen.

Take it back.

God, take it back! Take it back now, Mike!

[fred]

no I wouldn't buy it

[acomicbookgirl]

No... If it was Phil Jimenez or George Perez doing the art, sign me up..

[fred]

I should also add that if it were drawn by Darwyn Cooke, Alex Maleev, Tim Sale, Michael Lark, or a few others I would buy it if it were written by a guy named Hobo Jim that they pulled off the street.

[fred]

if Moon Knight didn't have his mental issues i don't think anyone would care about him. what does he have to offer over any other character in the marvel u besides this? without the split personality he's basically daredevil with sight, completely uninteresting. what would you want MK to be to elevate him to that next level? I think if you get rid of the his schizophrenia then he would lose what little fans he already has and wouldn't gain any.

(again this comes from a guy who sole knowledge of the character comes from a wizard article calling him the most underused character in the marvel u)

they could do something with him though. By the same token, Danny Rand is DD with sight and an Iron Fist

[jgg0610]

I just found out my LCS is sold out of Nightwing Annual and when they reordered it immediately went to backorder.:(

[iSteve]

I just found out my LCS is sold out of Nightwing Annual and when they reordered it immediately went to backorder.:(

That's a bummer.

By the way, how did your visit to the Catholic church last Sunday go? Still searching for a non-Methodist alternative?

[jgg0610]

That's a bummer.

By the way, how did your visit to the Catholic church last Sunday go? Still searching for a non-Methodist alternative?
It went well. I really liked the service a lot. We're going to visit several other denominations before we make up our minds though. I defnitely think we'll be going back there for another visit. Wife's working this weekend so we're not visiting anywhere.

[iSteve]

It went well. I really liked the service a lot. We're going to visit several other denominations before we make up our minds though. I defnitely think we'll be going back there for another visit. Wife's working this weekend so we're not visiting anywhere.

Good luck in your search.

[fred]

maybe the Annual will get a reprint? can't imagine that happens much though

[labor_days]

All you really need of that Nightwing Annual is but a single page (http://farm1.static.flickr.com/228/465628754_d61b54342e_o.png). Hell let's just call it now, Pick of the Month.

[iSteve]

All you really need of that Nightwing Annual is but a single page (http://farm1.static.flickr.com/228/465628754_d61b54342e_o.png). Hell let's just call it now, Pick of the Month.

No fair, Labor_Days. That's the worst page of an otherwise stellar issue.

[labor_days]

No fair, Labor_Days. That's the worst page of an otherwise stellar issue.
You say worse, I say best.

Effing' Batman. Glad he got the asshole in him cut out in the desert.

[iSteve]

You say worse, I say best.

Effing' Batman. Glad he got the asshole in him cut out in the desert.

You really liked that page??? :confused: I thought you were just being sarcastic.

[jgg0610]

maybe the Annual will get a reprint? can't imagine that happens much though
That's what happened with the most recent Batman Annual so it's not that far out of the realm of possibility.

[labor_days]

Most times, I am being sarcastic. Blatant bigotry of the golden/silver age notwithstanding, that page is the most genuinely hilarious thing I've ever seen in comics.

Someone(s) wrote that, drew it and approved it for printing. Genius.

[fred]

That's what happened with the most recent Batman Annual so it's not that far out of the realm of possibility.

that's cool - thought the chances were remote

[acomicbookgirl]

My LCS sold out too. He reordered it though and I can't wait to read it. :)

[conorkilpatrick]

You really liked that page??? :confused: I thought you were just being sarcastic.

He is being serious but not in the way you think he is.

[fred]

there's a lot of that going around

[six-gun]

there's a lot of that going around

Sarcasm?... On a message board?... No Way!

[fred]

never happens

[acomicbookgirl]

Oh god no! Especially not here..

[labor_days]

You guys are too cynical. Can not one simply be a fan of DC's current dick and fart joke mandate? Jeeze.

[fred]

it does seem in keeping with what your normal tastes and sensibilities are :rolleyes:

[labor_days]

You got me. I do love a good shark fart joke.

[fred]

I think the world needs more jokes about animal flatulence. it doesn't feel enough like the end of days yet

[alexg]

tracked down Cable and Deadpool issues 33-38-I blame you fred. Thank you.
Also finally found a copy of Nightwing Annual. Amazing how many shops I went to were sold out of this...

[fred]

no problem - read them yet?

[labor_days]

Fred, where's that BeGoth (hehe) review you promised?

[fred]

dude it's taking so long and I feeling very amotivational at the moment

it's coming

[alexg]

no problem - read them yet?

I'm still trying to finish work for monday, but I did dip into issue 33, a bit confusing, but I'm hoping that'll shake out.

[fred]

cool - hope you like it

[kwok_talk]

Hey, I thought it's been brought up before, but is there a Bendis DD omnibus out yet? (did a search on Amazon, but couldn't find it)

[fred]

no there isn't
I've heard rumors there are talks of one

[fred]

OK. I finally finished the BeGoths #1 write-up. I'm a notorious heckler. The concept that I went with is basically that this is to be like you're watching a movie with me.


I hope it worked. Let me know what you think even if you hate it. I may do more depending on response. Here it is:

http://yourcomicsucks.livejournal.com/

[kwok_talk]

My work firewall is blocking it. Bummer. I can’t wait to get home and read this. I’ll burn all my Joy Division albums in tribute.

[fred]

awesome
blasted firewall

[alexg]

wwwwooowww..>Fred you savaged BeGoths. Being able to read it along side your review showed me that you weren't out of line. The art seems faily accomplished--on a panel by panel basis, altho the sequential storytelling is a bit on the flat side. Talking heads seems to substitute for sequential storytelling a lot these days.

Would anyone ever want to actually read this comic?

[fred]

I had to read it like 4 times and it nearly made me gloomy and suicidal.

1 - initial read
2 - cut up
3 - commentary
4 - editing

thanks for checking it out

[mikegraham6]

fred, that was hilarious, what a shitty comic book, are they suppose to be like a goth version of the cabage patch kids or something?
one question though, why would you ever subject yourself to this garbage? what were you thinking?

EDIT: I also like how it's such a cheery story yet they are suppose to be goth, WTF??? goth is so stupid (no offense to any goths out there.....AlexG???:D)

[fred]

thank you sir. I usually pick books at random that I wouldn't normally read and check them out, and sometimes they suck this much. Also, I kind of love the 'so bad it's good' segment of comics/movies/tv so it's really win/win.

[acomicbookgirl]

Fred! You made a lj!!! I'm so proud.. That so makes my day!!! :)

[fred]

have you had a chance to check it out?

[paper]

Good work, Fred. I hope I never write a crappy comic. Just knowing the hours you put into that might be spent on my work...

Don't know how you work so fast.

Looking forward to your line by line annotations of Anna Karenina. :D

[fred]

thanks paper. Did you really like it? honesty always needed - it does take time to do that.

Anna Karenina coming this fall to a livejournal near you

if it sucked you really can say so

thanks for looking

[horatio616]

You guys are too cynical. Can not one simply be a fan of DC's current dick and fart joke mandate? Jeeze.

The only mandate at DC is that you must kiss the Silver Age in the ass as much as possible. Dick and fart jokes are recommended, but not required.

[acomicbookgirl]

have you had a chance to check it out?

I just did.. I love it!!! I'm adding you to my friends!!! I'm so proud of you.. You never disappoint me.. :)

[fred]

I just did.. I love it!!! I'm adding you to my friends!!! I'm so proud of you.. You never disappoint me.. :)

thanks a lot. I had fun doing it and if I get a good response I'll keep it up.

[fred]

I just added you too acbg

their site is so funny

You've only made 1 friend with a link to friends and communities

ah - so much pressure :)

[acomicbookgirl]

both sites?

[paper]

thanks paper. Did you really like it? honesty always needed - it does take time to do that.

Anna Karenina coming this fall to a livejournal near you

if it sucked you really can say so

thanks for looking

More stuff like this: "It's hard for anyone to do an adaptation of a Poe novel that will impress the hardcore 'scorpion on the face' fans"

I think you should just pick the best pages and comment on those. Quality over quantity. If you feel like there's too much of a jump between pages, you can summarize them, which could be really funny.

That's my instinct anyway.

[fred]

both sites?

yes I did

the second time I got the you've only made 2 friends message

[kwok_talk]

Fred, I can't believe you suffered through that. Way to take one for the team!

[fred]

More stuff like this: "It's hard for anyone to do an adaptation of a Poe novel that will impress the hardcore 'scorpion on the face' fans"

I think you should just pick the best pages and comment on those. Quality over quantity. If you feel like there's too much of a jump between pages, you can summarize them, which could be really funny.

That's my instinct anyway.

Cool. Thanks. I was a bit concerned about that. There were some pages that passably progressed the story in a way that wasn't totally embarassing and also some that were just so horrid that I didn't even need to say anything. I'll likely give that approach a shot on the next one(if?).

[fred]

Fred, I can't believe you suffered through that. Way to take one for the team!

thanks. it was pretty terrible.

[kwok_talk]

Did you find that at your LCS?

[fred]

it mysteriously appeared on my computer
I'd stop shopping anywhere that sold that