Digital Comics

[jon_samuelson]

By now people probably seen the Watchmen or the Invincible motion comics on Itunes. Are they the next new venue for comic books or are they just a realy cheap way for a company to make extra cash on a comic sucess.

Jeez, I hope not. I really kinda thought that these motion comic things stunk. I guess I've only seen the Watchmen, and Invincible versions though. The idea of a camera panning across a static comic image holds no interest for me whatsoever.

[hcolyn]

Jeez, I hope not. I really kinda thought that these motion comic things stunk. I guess I've only seen the Watchmen, and Invincible versions though. The idea of a camera panning across a static comic image holds no interest for me whatsoever.

I see motion comics as something to reach a new audience rather than as something for people already reading comics. It might get people into reading comics, but it is definitely not for me.

[gobo]

People pushing the form in new directions always excites me.

I don't really dig how the motion comics have looked so far but I'm glad they exist.

[bean6344]

Has anyone tried this iphone/ipodtouch app?
I downloaded 2 free issues and learned 3 things.
1) The format "works" for the medium.
2) Proof is just as good as I have heard.
3) The Return Of Shadowhawk is... errr... not my cup of tea, but I do appriciate the free look.

I am looking forward to more comics being formatted for this app. Check out the freebies and see if its something you would be willing to pay for in the future.

[cyberauron]

People pushing the form in new directions always excites me.

I don't really dig how the motion comics have looked so far but I'm glad they exist.

I like the idea of them. I believe the motion comics are a good promotion tool, but as an actual media its like animation version of a reality tv show. Seeing Invincible I am kinf of disappointed it would never be animated

[racemccloud]

I do think the "Watchmen" motion comic is vastly superior to the "Invincible" motion comic.

[rchapoteau]

I am all for the move to Digital Comics. I really enjoyed the latest article on the site about Digital Comics. I hate to admit that I currently pirate comics, because I make a decent amount of money. I'm not hurting financially by any stretch of the imagination. My problem, like in the article, is physical space. I no longer feel the need to "collect" most comics. I do however, still buy a lot of hardcover collectors items. Just this past week I spent well over $500 on Absolute books, and other hardcovers.

I just don't feel the need to keep every issue anymore of a series I like. I want to read them, but I don't want them laying around afterwards. I probably have 10+ boxes in my attic that I never touch unless its to put away what I did wind up buying over time. I do like the expensive nice looking hardcovers though for coffee tables.

I like the fact that Marvel at least has older digital comics available. I just wish they were day and date. I would even take a month old, and I would GLADLY pay for them. Everything is more like a year old, or older.

I don't need them to be motion comics. I do subscribe to the watchmen comic and I will probably subscribe to invincible, but I wouldn't mind if they were just plain old comics.

I think by not offering digital comics, companies are leaving money on the table.

[rchapoteau]

Don't know if this was posted in the thread before, but someone had posted online about a new app for the Iphone called ComicZeal.

http://www.bitolithic.com/ComicZeal/comiczeal.htm

Apparently you pay 1.99 for the app, and it will allow you to access there library of golden age comics. Right now the library is kind of small, but it looks like something to check out.

The other part thats interesting is that it looks like there is a way to import your own comics straight into the app via a wifi sync. I'll have to play around with this more.

Edit: Just played with the app, and moving over comics that I have on my pc was a relatively easy process. Great Iphone App!

[mttskates]

Well...after a long refusal to try them out, I have finally broken down and bought a yearly subscription to Marvel's Digital Comics (only option for the money in my opinion). At first I will have to admit that I was a little reserved about reading quality artwork on a 17" Dell Laptop screen fearing pixulation, but after adjusting the comics to read single page format and a little scrolling, I find myself now leaning towards the digital comic. One reason would be is that although I love ads and do miss the old classics, its weird to read a ton of digitals (where ads are not present) and go back to normal issues where the ads jump out and for some reason annoy me now.

In short (too late) I am loving the Digital format and with the huge library of Marvel books available, I will have no problems filling the year full of reading and getting my moneys worth.

Question: Does anyone know if DC or Image or even DH for that matter are planning on doing a similar thing for their respective books? I truly hope so.

[actionsreaction]

Just wanted to put up here that "Pull Lists", the Comic Book Reader I had previously posted about has been up in the iTunes AppStore for about two weeks so far. I've had some decent feedback from folks using the app and I've submitted an update to iTunes that i'm expecting to be available any day now (whenever it gets through apple's approval process).

You can find Pull Lists on the AppStore here (http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=299880440&mt=8)

For more information about Pull Lists on the iPhone along with the Mac and PC client applications check here (http://actionsreaction.squarespace.com/)

You can also check out a review of Pull Lists at AppVee.com (link (http://www.appvee.com/t/pull-lists)), including a video of Pull Lists in actions

[jive-talking-robot]

..its weird to read a ton of digitals (where ads are not present) and go back to normal issues where the ads jump out and for some reason annoy me now.

In short (too late) I am loving the Digital format and with the huge library of Marvel books available, I will have no problems filling the year full of reading and getting my moneys worth.

My thoughts exactly. I signed up for this in December myself... I even found a coupon that made my final purchase price around $54. I bring my Thinkpad home from work on the weekends to get caught up on reading... I actually love the Smart Panel method of reading (though I had to do some minor adjustments to the Flash Player window size to get it to work). Between the Digital Comics service and the TBPs I buy, I too find ads to sometimes be jarring when I pick up the occasional single.

For getting caught up on back issues, I think Marvel's service is quite nice... I could still do for some more recent (last 3 years) content, but I appreciate that they are constantly updating their catalog, so I really have very little to complain about.

Money well spent.

[sarahg42]

Perhaps I am a bit too old fashioned... but I just can't do digital comics. (To be fair I don't do digital novels either.) For me, there is just something magical about the look/feel/smell of a book. You just can't curl up with a computer the same way. *shrugs* My boyfriend loves them. He has a subscription to Marvel's digital comics. I just can't get into it.

[optimus187prime]

Perhaps I am a bit too old fashioned... but I just can't do digital comics. (To be fair I don't do digital novels either.) For me, there is just something magical about the look/feel/smell of a book. You just can't curl up with a computer the same way. *shrugs* My boyfriend loves them. He has a subscription to Marvel's digital comics. I just can't get into it.

Im with you, not to mention the eye strain. I spend 10 hours a day on a PC and I do not want to go home and read my comics on one.

[scoobydiesel]

My eyes would die with putting comics on my iphone(only thing i have really that theyd go on)

an i just enjoy the collection of paper.

[rchapoteau]

My eyes would die with putting comics on my iphone(only thing i have really that theyd go on)

an i just enjoy the collection of paper.

If you haven't I think you should try it before you come to that conclusion. the stuff Iverse does is VERY easy to read. They have several free issues you can try out. I recommend Proof.

[me399]

Almost everything I read is now is in digital form. I would love to be able to put my .CBR's on my Iphone. If only someone would put out a program. I use ComicBookLover right now to read them on my Mac.

[actionsreaction]

check out my previous posts or just hop over to: Pull Lists on the App Store (http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=299880440&mt=8)
and check out my Mac client (link (http://actionsreaction.squarespace.com/pulllists-library/))... similar to ComicBookLover, but free :eek:

Almost everything I read is now is in digital form. I would love to be able to put my .CBR's on my Iphone. If only someone would put out a program. I use ComicBookLover right now to read them on my Mac.

[parker84]

So I recently got an ipod touch and downloaded a few of the free comics from the itunes store. They weren't the best quality but far from being horrible.
I then downloaded comiczeal from the store and they have loads of golden age comics that are now in the public domain available for download. Again, ok stories (for the times) but nothing earth shattering.
Hypothetically, I then acquired a copy of a more recent book and put it on the ipod. This, hypothetically, blew me away. The ease of reading was great and once you adjust the screen size there are no problems. Well ok, one problem, two page splash pages.
Other than that I must say I much prefer reading comics on the iphone. I am by no means switching to downloads, but if Marvel and DC offered the books for $2 an issue or so I would totally go that route. I no longer turn the page and have a scene spoiled because when I turned the page I caught a glimpse of what was on the right page or the bottom panels.
Also, as far as the two page splash goes, isn't this really just comic masturbation at this point? A one page splash is fine, but two pages is more often than not just wasting two pages of a 25 page story. All it really does is give the artist something to point ti and say "Man that looks good! I am awesome." So really that is one sacrifice I would be willing to make to switch to comics on the iphone.
I understand the reasoning of DC and Marvel not really wanting to offer their books digitally at the same time as the print versions. I worked at a chain comic store not too long ago and I have no doubt that if it didn't cripple or kill that industry it would completely change it forever. DC and Marvel don't want to bite the hand that has fed them for so long and that is completely understandable.
All I'm saying is after getting a good hands on experience with them, I would be completely onboard with the transfer to digital comics. What do you guys think?

[kndoubleu]

having read a good deal of comics in digital format, i can say that the splash pages are an issue. it's not so much the worthless two page splashes that i care about, but the more thoughtful, inventive graphically designed pages. creative pages suffer on any screen smaller than, say, 20 inches.

[jedidave24]

Incidentally, I just picked up an iPod touch last night and began casually flipping through Atomic Robo #1 on it. I have yet to see how full or double page spreads hold up, but I was impressed with what I saw. As nice of an experience as it is, however, I couldn't see myself going strictly that avenue for my comics. I'm too married to the idea of a book in my hand. I am interested in seeing more, though.

[cormano]

The only comic I have on my iPod is TMNT: Soul's Winter, which I got just see how it would work, I already have the issues. I do not like how they did it. For this comic, they gave each panel it's own page. You can scroll through the pages, but you can't zoom in and only having one panel on the screen at a time without being able to see the layout of the page really takes away from the experience. I want to check out some of the other stuff that's available because I think there is definitely a better way to do it.

[actionsreaction]

quick note, for those of you who are using the Pull Lists Windows client... I've just last night updated with a near-to-full-feature version of Pull Lists Library for windows. Which you can find here (http://www.actionsreaction.com/pulllists-library/)

New to this version:

Completely new User Interface.
Comics Library interface, allows you to store and organize your entire digital comic collection in one convenient place.
Multiple File Export, no longer restricted to sending one comic at a time to your iphone/ipod.
64-bit version available as well as the 32-bit version. *Disclaimer* I don't have a 64-bit windows machine to test with currently, so I need your feedback on what does and doesnt work with this version. I am working on getting someone dedicated to do this testing for me... but until then I need all the feedback you guys and gals can give me.


Soon to come:

Comic Book Viewer, allowing you to read your digital comics directly on your pc... this will be the very next thing i work on, so expect it soon~ish :D
Preview/Thumbnail view, display your comics as thumbnails of their cover pages.

[rchapoteau]

Tried the app out. Seems pretty cool. What i would love to see happen is if you could drag over a file and based on the name its smart enough to know certain things about it (it would have to pull the info from a database somewhere)

So if I dragged in Avengers Initiative 021.cbr it would be smart enough to know the title is Avenger Initiave, and the issue is 21, and the publisher is Marvel, and it automagically categorizes it as such.

I'd pay for an app that does that.

[actionsreaction]

currently the Mac client parses thru the filename to try to pull out the issue number and issue name. I could look into retrieving more info from a database of sorts... but my first priority is finishing the windows client and getting a Tiger version of the mac client working properly.

I've considered charging for the mac and/or windows client, it is similar in functionality to Comic Book Lover which costs ~$25 USD... maybe giving a free copy when you purchase Pull Lists on the iPhone? But i'm not sure if or what people would be willing to pay for it.

[rchapoteau]

That is a tricky thing. I bought ComicZeal for . . . I think $3, but I'm not sure. I would probably have paid more. Comic Zeal is good, but I have to convert files from CBR to something else first, and then I still have to manually categorize things. They are constantly making changes though.

[actionsreaction]

i guess to try to toot my own horn,... what I'm trying to do to set Pull Lists apart from the crowd is to offer a full end-to-end digital comics experience. The desktop clients are not just a means to get your comics onto the phone. They offer a way to store and organize your collection in a single interface and a way to read digital comics on your mac or pc.

I'm also very open to suggestions from folks who are using the app, or would like to. If you have any feature suggestions or ideas that could make the user experience better, I'm all ears! My goal is to provide you all with the best product I can.

[rchapoteau]

Maybe you should look into partnering up with Ifanboy. Seriously it seems like something this site is missing. It might give you a larger distribution base if they plug it in the show, and it could bring them a revenue stream if it works out.

[3ill]

I don't understand why it has to be one or the other. Why can we not push digital and still keep paper?

You're throwing the baby out with the bathwater, fellas.

3!LL

[naveenm]

I don't understand why it has to be one or the other. Why can we not push digital and still keep paper?

You're throwing the baby out with the bathwater, fellas.

3!LL

All media will be viewable on mutliple formats -- books and comics will still exist, despite digital readers.

Look at television. I watch it on my big screen, I also download episodes to watch on my iPod touch when I'm travelling, and I watch streaming episodes when the other two formats aren't available. Not to mention DVD and onDemand.

The comics industry will have to change or die, and if the Big 2 don't do it, someone else will. There will be growing pains. Writers and artists will have to approach creating comics differently -- suddenly, its not just about standard page sizes, so we may have to go back to a panel based approach, like comic strips before the advent of comic books.

Anyway, my 2 cents.

[kndoubleu]

All media will be viewable on mutliple formats -- books and comics will still exist, despite digital readers.

Look at television. I watch it on my big screen, I also download episodes to watch on my iPod touch when I'm travelling, and I watch streaming episodes when the other two formats aren't available. Not to mention DVD and onDemand.

The comics industry will have to change or die, and if the Big 2 don't do it, someone else will. There will be growing pains. Writers and artists will have to approach creating comics differently -- suddenly, its not just about standard page sizes, so we may have to go back to a panel based approach, like comic strips before the advent of comic books.

Anyway, my 2 cents.

That's actually interesting. At some point, somewhere down the line, everything will be digital. It's just the way things are going. It might be 10 years, or it might be 50. But, once comics go in that direction, I'd guess that instead of panel-format, we'd get comics formatted to be viewed on a 15- or 17-inch monitor. Maybe 20+, but I'd assume they'd want to be inclusive of laptops.

[naveenm]

That's actually interesting. At some point, somewhere down the line, everything will be digital. It's just the way things are going. It might be 10 years, or it might be 50. But, once comics go in that direction, I'd guess that instead of panel-format, we'd get comics formatted to be viewed on a 15- or 17-inch monitor. Maybe 20+, but I'd assume they'd want to be inclusive of laptops.

I think it'll be even more complicated though! Because now content creators have to think both small and large at the same time.

It seems we're in an era of emerging extremes -- bigger televisions, bigger computer monitors...but also little iPod and cell phone screens.

So, how do you design a panel, and make it readable (word balloons) that can be seen on a small screen like on an iPod?

Not to mention that there are no standards anymore -- everything is variable, from monitor sizes, to screen resolution.

I think that most "digital comics" so far are unreadable online -- they're just scanned in pages, that you have zoom and pan around in order to read. Totally tiring -- a book in my hand is easier...for now...

I've gotta check out what iTunes offers, but if its like Marvel's digital stuff, I won't be impressed. But at some point someone will figure this out. And again, if its not Marvel or DC, it'll be someone else. But it will happen.

[kndoubleu]

Well, I was assuming that there would not be a unification of the large and small, only a shift from the print-format, which is all we have in digital form for the mainstream books, to a format that is specifically designed to be on a screen. I don't think it's practical to make a mainstream book like New Avengers in one format that will be read on an ipod and a computer screen.

iPod comics are going to have to be their own format, and it makes no sense whatsoever, especially considering the limited readership of comics, to have a book produced and laid out twice. They will, then, need to be dedicated comics. So, assuming I'm right and comics go all-digital eventually, there would be some titles that are released solely for a small-format device. Say, peripheral yet popular titles like Deadpool. Or, if overhead is lessened enough, I guess they could afford to dig into their pockets and produce popular titles twice, but that seems less likely.

With respect to the reading experience, I think that using a Mac laptop softens the experience of reading digital comics right now, as the touchpad scrolling and the ease of the zoom keystroke are essential to the process for me. I'm not sure that I'd feel the same about this format if I had an iMac or a windows-based machine. Though, if it was a desktop with a big enough monitor, I guess I wouldn't need either.

[naveenm]

I don't think it's practical to make a mainstream book like New Avengers in one format that will be read on an ipod and a computer screen.

Maybe not, but regardless, it will have to be on multiple formats. This is just reality. Consumers are driving this, and if the industry doesn't change, it won't survive. Production costs may simply shift from printing to producing multiple digital formats.

[cyberauron]

Marvel Digital Comics: Is it worth the 60 bucks

[actionsreaction]

I subscribed to it last year.... and never use it :(

[naveenm]

From my experience using the samples, it's not great. I hate having to pan and zoom on pages that were designed for print.

"Comics" started as strips in newspapers. So they were formatted for newspapers -- a few, equal sized panels. The first "comic books" were just collections of these strips. Once people began to write comics as books rather than strips, they re-thought the layout based on pages, since the old format was based on a "strip" in a newspaper.

Now that comics are moving to digital formats, and not pages, the layout needs to be re-thought again.

And book pages that are just presented to us online is not the way to go, IMO.

[3ill]

I formatted the project I'm working on to be halved horizontally to fit the screen. The only problem is the low panel number per screen, so in future stories I'm planning on what will be 8-10 panel pages so that each 'screen' can have a story beat. While this only covers a basic comp screen and standard format print, it works pretty well for me, and anything that inspires you to put more story on a page can't be all that bad, right?

[thefreakytiki]

So I got to thinking about all the huba-baloo about comics going to digital. Many people have spoken about the effect it would have on Diamond and LCSs. There is also another major victim, that NO ONE is talking about, if comics were distributed this way...

...It would be the death of every none Big 2 publisher.

Seriously, why would any creator ever need a Top Shelf, Image, Oni, Darkhorse again? Marvel and DC are safe because they own their characters. Indie creators going digital would be the equivalent of reporters becoming bloggers (i.e Politico.com) or Radio DJs starting Podcasts (i.e. Adam Carolla). So the way I foresee it is the birth of Digital Comics is the death of the Indie publisher.


Thoughts?


the Tiki http://www.pixeljoint.com/files/icons/tiki_torches.gif

[gobo]

Whoops misunderstood, nvm :)

[jon_samuelson]

That's interesting Tiki, I guess I never thought about it. I don't think it would quite be the complete death knell that you're thinking, but it would at least completely change the way they do business. I still think most creators would probably prefer someone else take care of the business end of marketing and distribution, so in that sense I think "publishers" would still exist. I also think there would wind up being creative "houses" where many creators grouped together to pool their talents both as an advertising technique, and for the possibility of creating a shared universe.

[miyamotofreak]

Wow that is interesting. But my guess is that Image and Oni would essentially become like Revision3, a central hub for content.

[jaflanagan]

I can't say I agree with that fear. A publisher is a way to gain eyeballs that's very hard to do without a brand backing your product. There are a billion books out there, but the fact that some are linked with Image or Oni gives me a place to look. Plus while I feel digital distribution will cut into the sales of a great many monthly issues, I'm thinking trade sales will remain largely unaffected. They'll increase if anything.

But, no matter what, there's nothing to stop the progress of technology, and a better distribution system owes nothing to the smaller publishers, and it'll be up to them to figure out a way to continue to exist in a new climate, exactly as we're seeing with network television, and traditional print media.

[deadspace]

I think it will be done similar to how Warren Ellis has done FreakAngels. He's done something quite amazing with that in that he is offering a comic for free and then releasing print collections of it - through indie publisher Avatar. That's a pretty interesting business model! And as far as I can see, it's done pretty well in terms of sales. I don't think digital comics will be free but I do think that collections of digital comics will still be published in print. Maybe that's how indie publishers will survive.

There has been talk of digital media replacing paper media for years and years and it simply hasn't happened.

[conorkilpatrick]

I can't record a song on my computer here and start selling it on iTunes (as far as I know), I need a record company's backing. If an iTunes for comics comes about companies are still going to be needed to get books exposure.

And as Josh said someone is still going to have to publish the trades. Companies like Top Shelf and Oni Press deal pretty much only in trades anyway.

[esophagus]

Have you seen a lot of reporters stop reporting to blog? I haven't. There is more exposure that comes from being a part of a pre-existing group than being on your own. ESPCIALLY in a digital market. Yes, it will be easier for creators to do things that a company may not necessarily want them to, but it will hardly eliminate publishers.

[naveenm]

He's done something quite amazing with that in that he is offering a comic for free and then releasing print collections of it - through indie publisher Avatar. That's a pretty interesting business model!

That's a business model I've thought about for a while, and I kept wondering why someone didn't do it -- and then I found out about Freakangels about two weeks ago!

But other, smaller indie publishers are doing the same thing. As are web comics (as in daily strips).

And it can be a successful model, if you can get a big enough readership for your web comic -- and that's where publishers come in.

Because with so many books out there, how do you find what's good? If a book has the Vertigo or Oni stamp on it, I'm far more likely to consider it than an indie book I've never heard of. The only way around that is if its coming from an established writer, like Ellis. But for an unknown or up-an-coming writer? Being attached to a publisher isn't necessary, but it helps A LOT!

That's why the publishers won't go away, though they may morph into something else. (Think about music, where the record labels are dying, but concert promoters like Live Nation are thriving.)

[cenquist]

Question for all of Ifanboy?

How cheap would digital comics have to be for you to switch over all your monthly books? You wouldn't buy any monthy titles unless digital but you could still buy trades.

[naveenm]

Question for all of Ifanboy?

How cheap would digital comics have to be for you to switch over all your monthly books? You wouldn't buy any monthy titles unless digital but you could still buy trades.

What do you mean by "digital"? Are you talking as a webcomic? Or iPhone app? Or something like Marvel Digital?

[iamso77]

Question for all of Ifanboy?

How cheap would digital comics have to be for you to switch over all your monthly books? You wouldn't buy any monthy titles unless digital but you could still buy trades.

I would pay $1.50 to $2.00 (with ownership of the digital file) and it will give me more of an opportunity to be interested in other monthly issues to try out. Because of the price per issue and physical space of a long box, I only buy trades anyway.

[jimski]

Question for all of Ifanboy?

How cheap would digital comics have to be for you to switch over all your monthly books? You wouldn't buy any monthy titles unless digital but you could still buy trades.

If I got to keep a copy of the file on my own hard drive, I would almost pay full cover price. I'd be disgruntled about it, but... man, am I tired of paper and storing and driving and parking and....

[jimski]

I mean... how much better would life be if your pull list just showed up in your inbox this morning?

[decepticon]

I like the whole concept of pulling your books, having them e-mailed to you, etc. that's great...but bottom line I've read digital comics and it just isn't as enjoyable as reading the print version. Even if DC/Marvel started offering the Digitals as well as prints in the near future I wouldn't get them, I'd stick with prints until they stopped making them. Even if the prints were more money (to an extent) I would stick with that format. I'm really not looking forward to the eventual day when I have to read them digitally.

Maybe if the new Kindle from Amazon gets a few tweaks and the screen can be tilted or something so it's roughly the same size as a comic I could get behind that. I mean, it would be cool to have my whole collection in one e-reader device than stacks of longboxes, and random piles of books all over the place.

[diabhol]

Question for all of Ifanboy?

How cheap would digital comics have to be for you to switch over all your monthly books? You wouldn't buy any monthy titles unless digital but you could still buy trades.

$0.99 and I keep the file.

Hell, they could even copy-protect it for all I'd care. :)

[jon_samuelson]

I'm with you Diabhol. $0.99, not a penny more, and I get the file. The whole purpose of an industry like comics or music going digital is to save money on the production and distribution end of things. If the publishers were to continue charging anything near cover price to buy their comics online I would quit buying them. They would clearly be gouging us, their profit margin would be going through the roof, and we would see no benefit whatsoever.

[miyamotofreak]

I'm with you Diabhol. $0.99, not a penny more, and I get the file. The whole purpose of an industry like comics or music going digital is to save money on the production and distribution end of things. If the publishers were to continue charging anything near cover price to buy their comics online I would quit buying them. They would clearly be gouging us, their profit margin would be going through the roof, and we would see no benefit whatsoever.
Yeah, no more than 99 pennies for me. To me comics need to be in print. I torrented a series that DC decided not to make a TPB of recently and I really didn't enjoy it nearly as much as I would had it been on paper. But the idea of digital comics for free with advertising or at least really cheap then a follow up trade or GN (collecting everything a la North World or Penny Arcade) is something I'm definitely behind.

[conorkilpatrick]

I'd easily pay $1.99 for a digital comic. Easily.

[kndoubleu]

I'd easily pay $1.99 for a digital comic. Easily.

I'd consider it at 1.99, but I'd be all over it at .99. And, really, the "OMG, definitely!" response by most customers would probably make that price point even more profitable.

[dierect-current]

Lets face it. Any method for getting comics to a wider audience is a good thing, right? I don't think that this would kill the books. The experience of having and reading an actual comic in your hand will never go away. Digital is just an alternative. I'd still have my book shelves stuffed with trades which, incidentally, is the real direction that the industry is moving in.

[jon_samuelson]

I'd easily pay $1.99 for a digital comic. Easily.

Why?

I don't want this to turn into a "value of comics" argument that Labor and I have had many times, but I'm legitimately curious about why you'd be willing to pay that much.

When I look at it, I can't fault the publishers for wanting to turn a profit, that's completely cool. But I can fault them for wanting to squeeze every dime from us that they can. I think that there's two different forms of Capitalism at play here. In one form, a supplier can charge an amount that will make them a lot of money, and be a burden that their customer is comfortable bearing. In another form, a supplier charges the absolute maximum that the market will bear, they make a filthy amount of money, and the customer is constantly disgruntled at the supplier.

I'm honestly curious if there's a breakdown available that describes every penny of the cost of a comic book goes. But for the sake of making a point I'll break it down thusly...

Total cost: $4
LCS Profit: $1 ($3 remaining)
Shipping costs: $0.25 ($2.75 remaining)
Diamond's cut: $0.50 ($2.25 remaining)
Printing: $1.50 ($0.75 remaining)
Talent Salary: $0.50 ($0.25 remaining)

So, I'm not saying that my math is 100% correct, I'm absolutely sure that it's not, but my bet is that it's not TOO far off. So, just for the sake of math, let's assume my numbers are right. A comic sells 40,000 issues, the way the system works now the publisher sees $10,000 pure profit for that comic every month. That's a pretty good racket. Not gonna be able to bankroll a trip to Mars off of it, but pretty good.

Now, let's assume digital distribution at Conor's $2 price point...

Total cost: $2
LCS Profit: $0 (They die from fully digital distribution of comics)
Shipping costs: $0 (Ain't the internet grand?)
Diamond's Cut: $0.25 (Thinking of Diamond as the new iTunes distribution, and this is an absolute maximum that I could see them getting for every issue downloaded. $1.75 remaining)
Printing: $0 (Ah, digital files...)
Talent salary: $0.50 (The talent's not going to be getting any raises out of this deal, this money's going right into the pockets of the big wigs $1.25 remaining)

So now, assuming that the same issue that sold 40,000 copies sees 40,000 downloads, the profit on the issue has gone from $10,000 to $50,000. And I really believe that comics would start to sell a lot more than 40,000 issues if they were available on a Kindle like thing.

Like I said, I'm not saying that my math is 100% correct, but I bet it's within 50% error. So my question to you, Conor (or anyone who's willing to pay anything even close to current cover price) is "Why should I, the customer bear the brunt of making already rich people filthy, stinking rich? Why shouldn't more of these saving's be passed along to me?"

I don't want for any of this to seem like I'm ranting from the high heavens on my soapbox... I just can't stand seeing the rich get richer.

[conorkilpatrick]

Why?

I don't want this to turn into a "value of comics" argument that Labor and I have had many times, but I'm legitimately curious about why you'd be willing to pay that much..

Because I buy on average about 20 books a week and that's a savings of at least $20 a week, if not more with all the $3.99 books. That's more than enough savings for me. I can buy an extra trade a week with that.

[tad]

I want to say something about the creative side of digital comics. We've seen the "shaking frame" digital INVINCIBLE. We've seen the "motion comic" version of WATCHMEN which starts crossing into animation. Then there's the iVERSE guys who break comics down to a panel at a time presentation for your iPhone. And then there's the usual digital comic which is simply scanned comic pages or their digitally generated equivalents. I tend to feel that most of these, save the full page scans, take away from the medium without adding anything but, arguably, convenience and cost savings.

Sometime I'll have to do a guest column on iFanboy about the comic page vs a series of panels. Mignola conceives his pages as a single piece of art with extreme attention given to the panel relationships on the entire page, not just transitions from panel to panel. All that would be lost except on full page digital comics. But again, that's not using the digital medium except as a replacement for paper.

Please visit this awesome example (http://balak01.deviantart.com/art/about-DIGITAL-COMICS-111966969)of how the digital medium can create a new kind of comic storytelling.

[gobo]

I'm pretty interested to see how Spider-Woman works as a motion comic, it's the first time something has been conceived specifically as a motion comic so it will be interesting if it works better (or worse) than Watchmen and Invinicble did.

[tad]

Although Bendis has talked about creating a new vocabulary for digital comics I haven't heard him mention anything like the example above which avoids putting anything in motion. It's closer to a comic experience.

Bendis has said that writing for a motion comic is different than writing for animation yet most of what I've seen done (admittedly not by Bendis) looks like an animatic, a step in the animation processes where storyboards are given some added movement and set to sound tracks.

[crucio]

I thought Crossgen had a nice model. Subscribe to them for I think $10 a month and read all the comics they have a short time after they were published. You could read anything at anytime and it was hard to pirate the digital version.

If i had my way, I would have a kindle like e-reader, the size of a comic with a touch screen and no buttons on the side or anything. You would purchase new comics for 1.99, year olds for 1.00, 9 to 10 years for 50 cents and issues older then that for 25 cents. Put an equal amount of each out each week. Put 500 gigs on the machine and make accounts so you can re-download. Have Marvel, DC and others pay to have it developed and split the profits, put anyones comics on their like Itunes, it'll allow Indies to have wider distribution and DC and Marvel et al have an added revenue front from Dark Horse and such putting their wares on there as well. I'd have the Kindles download option as well for always connected ability.

That's my pipedream. I'd go out and buy that thing tomorrow.

[iHeretic]

The killer price point for an impulse buy for me is 99p (UK, so that 1.99 price mentioned is probably about right), and I'd go to £1.49 for a comic I buy regularly.

As for the killer app and the distribution model, I think Click have a pretty good model. You can pick your format after purchase. I have to say that I like the .CBR/.CBZ format, although I don't use a comic book reader app... I prefer to unRAR the images and view them separately.

The reason being, I have a late 2008 MacBook with the multi-touch trackpad so extracting the images and viewing them sequentially in Preview is native and instictive... I can zoom, pan and swipe onto the next page with basic gestures. It's quick and convenient, but it's only that way for me because of the Mac.

I really like the Flash example Tad posted above. It was very intuitive and played to the strengths of sequential art without becoming animation in the same way the moving comics do.

[naveenm]

I want to say something about the creative side of digital comics. We've seen the "shaking frame" digital INVINCIBLE. We've seen the "motion comic" version of WATCHMEN which starts crossing into animation. Then there's the iVERSE guys who break comics down to a panel at a time presentation for your iPhone. And then there's the usual digital comic which is simply scanned comic pages or their digitally generated equivalents. I tend to feel that most of these, save the full page scans, take away from the medium without adding anything but, arguably, convenience and cost savings.

I agree that the "motion comic" idea is really just not as good as either comics or animation. It tries to take the best of both, but somehow just leaves you wanting the actual animation. It can be interesting if used appropriately, but I'm not a fan of it as a regular form for comic storytelling.

I DON'T think, though, that scanned pages are a good way for comics to go "digital". Often, the scan is insufficiently large to have legilble text -- so you have to zoom in, then pan around the page. Very annoying.

The iVerse panel after panel is actually great, IF the comic was designed from the start for that medium. If you're just taking a page layout and breaking it up into individual panels for a mobile screen, then those panels often have to be cropped, split up, etc. in order to fit. An unseemly compromise.

The link you posted (http://balak01.deviantart.com/art/about-DIGITAL-COMICS-111966969) is probably the BEST way I've seen for comics to be presented digitally. For once, there is value added to going digital besides convenience and cost.

And I think the BIGGEST hindrance to utilizing this potential is that the industry as a whole, from the publishers to the writers and artists, seem locked into the traditional comic page layout. This goes straight to your point about the "creative side" of digital comics. Until creators begin to actively write and draw for mobile and/or web, "digital" comics will continue to be nothing more than a compromised version of print comics.

[parker84]

While I think we can all agree that pirating hurts whatever industry it is involved in, are there any times where you see pirating as being acceptable?

DC seems to be the only company that has ever "made" me search for some of their older issues. Two of the Geoff Johns Flash trades (the two in the middle "Crossfire" and "Blitz") are out of print. I was able to find Crossfire for about $25.00 after shipping from the UK, however, Blitz still eludes me. The cheapest I can find is about $50.00 after shipping on Amazon all the way up to over $300. It is cases like these where I would have no problem downloading these issues. The issues are also grossly overpriced.

So while I bought all of the trades before Blitz why would I buy any after if I am missing a major part of the story? So I guess if the trade is out of print and/or it drives you to buy more content after downloading I can completely see pirating not only being a viable option but ultimately a more profitable one for the publishers.

[naveenm]

What do you guys think about the comics for iPhone and/or Android? I've been reading some of the iPhone comics thru UClick and iVerse Media.

My primary problem is the constant interactivity -- you have to touch the pad for every panel. The good thing about a comic page is that you can just read it (and the opposing page). More immersive, in my thinking. You're not constantly pulled out of the story to tap the screen.

Anyone else agree or disagree?

[conorkilpatrick]

You're not constantly pulled out of the story to tap the screen.

I'm not sure that's any different than turning a page.

[naveenm]

I'm not sure that's any different than turning a page.

Well, it's A LOT more frequent. With the exception of double page spreads, any time you have two opposing pages you're gonna read quite a few panels before having to turn the page. With the mobile apps, its taptaptaptaptaptap. Or, often enough, slideslideslideslideslide.

I thought the Proof #1 app was the best so far, since they often managed to squeeze two or three panels onto one screen.

[willobe]

My take on downloading comic, i have basically no prob with it personally. As many have said i think the system will be going that way some time in the future anyway. My personal idea of how i would like to digital media of comic done would be a combination of ideas.

First, all old out of print comics should be free on a hulu type site or main company site as suggested before. Put in advertising, maybe update old advert with new releases or maybe leave all original content (some of those adds are great in of them selves) but put a "blank" page every 3-5 pages that could always be updated with new content easily. Maybe even add a slight and i mean slight like 5 sec wait time before you can skip the page.

Second, New releases should be free as well but on a delayed time frame again as mentioned before, Say 1-2 weeks. That would give the Fanboy plenty of time to read and bask in the papery goodness, but would would still let the other people be not so far out of the time line loop with maybe the regular comic they buy (if its a tie in type comic for example). This would also allow the digital viewer some time to hopefully still go to the comic shop and buy the paper comic if they enjoyed it.

Third, Allow first release and older downloads of titles for a price, like itunes of course at a reduced price since there is alot of things reduced in terms of shipping and production. This would allow people that cant get comic stores, or just dont care to clutter their personal space with comics the option to still enjoy the medium that is so great and still reward the Artists of the book (and pay the corp.).

This may end up allowing More comics to be produced with maybe some titles being completely online monthly/bi-monthly/whatever time frame, yet still have the option of Trade paperbacks being sold in comic shops of those titles. Trade paperbacks are my personal fav as i love to have the whole or at least a major portion of story in one book. They are well organized, clean of ads, and durable so i can spend some time with them and come back to with out having to worry about possibly destroying the pages as much or being on a constant cliff hanger waiting for next week (i know, many people love that part, just not me :p) or trying to go through boxes of floppies in order to up together the run.

In many ways this could hurt local comic book store or they could adapt. Add in a bit more of a internet cafe of sorts that gives the space that all the fanboys love to come to geek out in with their friends. Comic book stores may buy less or maybe it would improve growth cuz as we all know nothing replaces that joy of holding it in your hands. Plus if everyone else in the store is reading your new fav book line before you and raving about it that would help push you to buying it too. Also this could possible increase the resale value of printed comics with the possibility of them being reduced in circulation, I never see printed comic ever being totally replaced (but who knows what the future holds).

Anyways thats my 99 cent.

[lucien21]

I think Digital comics are an inevitability.

As long as they are reasonably priced and don't come hampered with ridiculous DRM then i'm sure they will be a big hit.

However there are obstacles:

* some people still see digital as meaning it should be free or very very cheap - Somehow printing it on a few cents worth of paper gives it value greater than some numbers transmitted through the cables. They seem to forget that the cost of the artist/editors/writers etc are all still there and the actual printing/distribution cost are now taken up by internet server and bandwidth charges. It should be slightly cheaper, but not by a lot. In the end what you are really paying for is the story and the art not the paper it comes on so I don't think the format should vary the price that much.

* The tech isn't quite there yet for me. The Ipod Touch is a great device and the comic reader apps make reading comics great with zooming in and flipping pages but you lose the impact of full pages and double page spreads. My ideal product would be about the size of a DVD case which you could open like a DVD case with the screen inside and read it like a real book.

* It would have a direct impact on comic book shops, who are probably already suffering from Trade sales in major bookshops. Reduce the business even further by directly selling to the comsumer and more will close.

There are some good signs though. Longbox sounds interesting and as the range of readers like the Sony and Amazon Kindle turn colour and come down in price I can see the digital comic take off in a big way.

Possible stop gaps tech wise.

: Rumoured new Ipod Tablet - Basically a Ipod Touch with a 7 or 10" screen Unfotunatly I think this is going to be expensive. http://images.google.com/images?q=ipod%20tablet&rls=com.microsoft:en-gb:IE-SearchBox&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi (various screen mockups)

: Smart Q7 Tablet has a 7" touchscreen http://www.umpcportal.com/gallery/v/SmartQ7/Q7-pix1.jpg.html

There are a few other tablet like devices and i'm sure that there will be a lot more in the future.

[idleivey]

I read alot of comics on my Iphone, mostly stuff that I'm only half interested in or something hard to find/expensive on paper. I do agree that the constant panning can be a little distracting, reading something with lots of spreads or unconventional page layout can be a pain.

I do agree that digital comics are unavoidable. I don't think this will completely replace paper though, I can't imagine not having my bookshelf full of trades. I suspect that in the future single issues will be released digitally and trades/collections will be sold on paper.

[nilcam]

I'm a Marvel digital subscriber. $60 for access to more than 6,000 books was a good deal for me as I was just getting back into comics, especially since I was interested in a lot of out-of-print Marvel books. Last night, I received an interesting survey from Marvel asking about its pricing, service and gauging interest on actually buying comics rather than renting. A price tag of $1.99 per issue was suggested and if this would cause me to discontinue my subscription. Questions regarding incentives for digital subscribers were also on the survey. At the beginning of the survey, I was polled about which electrical devices I owned and later asked if I would be interested in reading comics on each specific device.

It's nice to see a company trying to be proactive with major changes to their business on the horizon. I'm also wonder if this is related to Longbox or not. I really like the Marvel digital reader. It's elegant and easy to use and, as it's Flash-based, it's cross platform so I can use it on my Linux box or my wife's Mac.

[lantern4life]

Marvel Digital coming to PSP (http://blog.newsarama.com/2009/08/18/marvel-digital-comics-to-hit-sony-psp/)

[lantern4life]

More Digital comics news for the PSP Newsarama (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/080919-psp2-idw.html) continues to report that not only is Marvel jumping on but IDW's Star Trek and Transformers and Iverse Media as well.

[lantern4life]

Possible sadness
Joystiq (http://www.joystiq.com/2009/08/22/marvel-shows-us-digital-comic-service-on-psp/) has a fuzzy video showing off comics on PSP and the Marvel rep spouts out a price point of $2 a book but says Sony has the final say.

[nilcam]

I'd love to use my PSP for comics but I expect these books will be DRMed to high hell and I won't support that. I'd rather buy the app for $5 and link it to my Marvel Unlimited subscription. Portability of data is very important to me. If I buy a digital comic, I need to be able to have it on more than one machine and I need to know that the DRM plug won't be pulled on the file. Paying $2 for a digital comic is reasonable, if that buys me the comic and not the right to view it. I need to test this, but I think I can read Marvel Digital on my PSP using the built-in browser.

[naveenm]

Another iPhone comic app company, PanelFly, just sent out an email saying they're now available on iTunes.

That makes four iPhone comic companies that I count: iVerse, Comixology, uClick, and PanelFly. With Longbox on the way as a multi-platform distributor.

[idleivey]

Digital comics are coming but I think the main concern is in what format and from who? iTunes appears to be the obvious choice for distributors, you have an already established user base and a built in payment system. Device wise though that means your stuck with either a PC/MAC or an iPhone to view and you will also be saddled with the inevitable Apple DRM. Longbox and other apps can't offer much over already existing digital comic viewing software other than subscription contracts with publishers which potentially means more DRM (I'm guessing) and more money spent by the consumer.

The real elephant in the room is digital comic piracy. While I doubt that comic book piracy is as prolific as mp3 or movies its there and it's been there for a while. Publishers are going to run into problems as they try to sell people something that they can already get for free (of DRM).

It's not hard to see how this could be really successful with a low price point and a DRM free open-source format. Unfortunately I think Apple could own the market if they wanted to without doing any of that, which is a shame.

[mharrison]

I hope they go digital for the issues but keep coming out with trades, absolutes, etc. The issues are a hassle to go to the comic store each week, and a hassle for storage, but I bought a lot of trades at the Fan Expo this weekend and I wouldn't trade them for digital.

[gobo]

Damn right, I love trades. I'm dying for Longbox (or something) for monthlies but I still spent $300+ on trades this weekend at Fanexpo

[mharrison]

Yeah, I spent a lot this weekend too. Would have spent more but nobody seemed to have the Daredevil hardcover #2,4 or 5. Got 1,3 and 6 for 50% off though, they are nice looking hardcovers. I guess for some reason the other 3 are out of print or something.

[azrael1213]

So I just joined the site and I know that this issue has been discussed in previous threads (thanks to a quick search)

http://www.revision3.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5631

But I wanted to update this argument, especially now that in this day and age, Marvel and DC both have an app in iTunes, we finally FINALLY have a, in my humble opinion, amazing comic book reader, the iPad.

So I myself have an iPad and like the other owners have been crowing the benefits of the digital comics on this media. It's size for displaying comics is nigh-perfect (although yes, the weight is a bit much...) and its colors are amazing.

So I would LOVE to hear the different sides come forth again and discuss the pro's and con's of digital vs paper distribution and viewing of comics now. AND, for those who have cons, please propose ideas (however fanciful and silly) of how digital comics and technology can evolve and remedy those cons. I mean, we would be fools not to assume technology grows rapidly...