InDigital Episode 16: Whoops [Discussion]

[chuckles]

InDigital Episode 16 - Whoops!

Jessica looks at a couple ways to see your iPod on the big screen and checks out a flash based high def camcorder too boot. Wil explores the stars while Hahn finds out how a GPS unit know where to turn. Then Hahn answers the question - What's in a name?

Show Notes:

DLO HomeDock Deluxe
Available: Now
Price: MSRP $149.99

Viewsonic ViewDock PJ258D
Available: Now
Price: MSRP $999.99
http://viewsonic.com/products/projectors/pj258d/


Celestron SkyScout
Available: Now
Price: MSRP $399.99
http://www.celestron.com/skyscout/index.php


Sanyo Xacti VPC-HD2
Available: Now
Price: MSRP $699.99
http://us.sanyo.com/entertainment/cameracorder/index.cfm?productID=1456

DLO New HomeDock Deluxe
Available: Now
Price: MSRP $149.99
http://dlo.com/Products/homedoc_dx_Prod.tpl?command=showpage&cart=1178271764208554

[kingkilr]

best episdoe ever:

because they told me systm was coming back :)

[linkiii]

Best solution... Firmware update for the AppleTV to allow you to plug your dock into it and interface with it -- it already has the USB port. If any one can do it right, it's Apple. Besides the hardware is already there.

[kingkilr]

That would also be a good solution for if they offer HD videos since Wifi is a bit slow to push 1080p.

[vekdigital]

I think Jessica nailed it when she said, "...who would buy this?". I haven't personally used either unit, but from the presentation and information given, I'd have to surmise that the term "iPod-compatible" is used very loosely by the manufacturers.

It would seem (even with Hahn's update segment at the end) that the DLO and ViewSonic systems are merely "iPod docks" (and I use THAT term loosely) with rudimentary video connections and little else to sync video data and control functions.

From an engineering perspective, it almost seems as though both of these manufacturers had to "hack" the iPod's docking port connector as they didn't have 3rd-party developer specifications from Apple to work from. If they did, don't you think they'd have had the ability to port the ENTIRE video functionality of the iPod (yes, including menus and such) to the external screen?

(Wil's gonna luuuuv this part :D )

It would seem that both these products were manufactured and marketed using the "8-Step Microsoft Mentality" (as I like to call it):

1) Identify a potential niche market
2) R&D a product concept and take it to Alpha
3) Have your design team "break & fix" the Alpha
4) Manufacture, package and ship your "killer new product" to your retail channel partners
5) Let the public do the actual Beta
6) Take the public feedback and create "upgrades"
7) Market the "new upgraded models" at a slightly higher price point to new customers while offering "upgrade pricing" to existing customer base
8) Use revenue from "upgrades" to fuel R&D on completely "new" design (which is really the same product - but now with more actual "thought" (see; customer feedback) put into it's design, implementation and overall functionality)

Jessica was right again. It all looks great on paper, but in execution? Both products leave so much to be desired in the control and functionality departments (even from a non-tech standpoint) that you just gotta wonder, "what the HELL were they thinking???". Had I personally been the CEO of either company, I would've fired whoever was responsible for letting such an ill-implemented product make it all the way to market with "our" company logo on it.

vEk :eek:

[yashar]

Is it just me or is the volume very low in the large.h264 version?

[shadowtech86]

I actually have the DLO HomeDock Deluxe.
I received it as a gift, even though I do not have a video iPod. (I use it to play music through my home theater system)

Although, I have tried video playback on it, and you guys are right, it is not a seamless solution. But, if you really want to watch those TV shows you downloaded from iTunes on your TV, it does at least work.

This product is for:
1. People who want to watch iTunes content on their TV, but want something a little more "home theater-integratable" than the official Apple iPod video cable. That's it, as far as I can tell.

[ryudo]

Man I want that Celestron SkyScout....and even when I saw the enterprise fly in the background I didn't even associate wil with trek until I later remembered so either I had a brain fart or wil does such a good job now you forget he was on the show..I like to think of the latter. ;)

[rowlodge]

kind of quiet this show...

i wish they had these mini star searchers things when i was a kid, i used to try and make telescopes with anything lying around, old magnifying glasses and anything parabolic for a reflector.

[masherscf]

Is it just me or is the volume very low in the large.h264 version?

Ya got me. The large WMV format played swimmingly well on the XBOX 360.

[darknessgp]

What is the deal with the iPod plugs into another device media center things? I seriously did a WTF? when I saw them. So here's the basic issues I have with that segment and the previous episodes segments about AppleTV and that Linux box.

1) Actually look for a wired or wireless Media player. Good products to do reviews for IMO would include the D-Link DSM-520 (HD up to 1080i), PixelMagic's HD MediaBox (1080p), and Buffalo Link Theater PC-P3LWG/DVD (1080i). Best thing of all, they support Divx/Xvid and a bunch of other formats!

2) If you guys do try any of those products out, please please don't use the included server software, use TVersity. I have a DSM-320, basically a non-HD version of the DSM-520 and TVersity works great, and if your player can't handle the video format, it'll transcode it for you.

3) All the products Jessica has looked at so far have 1 thing in common. Ipod. They were all about taking her iPod and doing something with it, which IMO is why those last two products were shitty, they were made to appeal to someone that thinks they need more iPod accessories.

Ok, I've said this before, but I think I'm not making myself too clear. I'm getting tired of seeing the same similar segments, i.e. car stereo/gps segments. We get it, you like cars a lot. But not all of us do to that extent and it would be nice to have an episode that had a truly meaningful segment instead of just another car segment.

[haanzz]

Ok, I've said this before, but I think I'm not making myself too clear. I'm getting tired of seeing the same similar segments, i.e. car stereo/gps segments. We get it, you like cars a lot. But not all of us do to that extent and it would be nice to have an episode that had a truly meaningful segment instead of just another car segment.[/QUOTE]

At this point we do what we can. I'd love to explain the complexities of doing a show like InDigital, but I'd have to write several pages. Unlike the other shows on Revision3 that are purely based on the hosts, we depend on products just as much. We, unfortunately, aren't at the top of the PR list for products right now and I can't really afford to buy everything. We put a ton of requests out and look at the products as they arrive. Lately, it's been car stuff that's been coming through the door. The bottom line is that it all really depends on the number of viewers we have. The more viewers, the higher up the list we get and the faster we get products for the show. This isn't TechTV (yet) with 2 or 3 people working full time just to get products. Even then it was harder than you'd think. We'll get there eventually...it's a work in progress.

Hahn

[tophfisher]

I'd like to just go on record to say I _REALLY_ like the car audio and GPS stuff. I have to travel a lot for my job, and am constantly looking out for those kinds of products.

Those segments are one of the reasons I keep watching!

[qwisp]

I think iPods have been over-hyped for a while now, and the fact that you have to buy an apple tv to watch your movies on a bigger screen proves it.

Here's how I see it (Links to buy each under its section):


Ipod video (30GB): £175 ($249) + apple TV: £200 ($299)
2.5" screen
Overall: £375 ($548)

UK: http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/ukstore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=30F51C&nclm=iPod
US: http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?nnmm=browse&mco=18C6CF82&node=home/ipod/ipod



Creative Vision W (30GB): £225 ($284)
4.3" screen
and it will plug and play with NTSC and PAL TVs

UK: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Creative-Vision-Portable-Media-Player/dp/B000JF5AQK/ref=sr_1_1/026-0255092-8242848?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1178467830&sr=1-1
US: http://us.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=210&subcategory=211&product=15752&campid=20435&WT.cg_n=Campaigns&WT.mc_id=2744



Creative Vision M (30GB): £140 ($200)
2.5" screen
and it will plug and play with NTSC and PAL TVs

UK: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000E3U4JU/3000032-21/ref=nosim
US: http://us.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=210&subcategory=214&product=14331



I hope you guys read this rather than flaming me for not following like a sheep. I'm just pointing out that there are better things than iPods if you look for them. For the average user, and iPod is quite good, but people who watch this show probably arn't average users.

Chris :)

[ryudo]

Hahn I know you guys are working hard and I thanks you for putting on a great show with what little you guys have to work with in terms of budget and number of staff.....I think the show is amazing as it is keep up the great work.:)

[casework]

I think iPods have been over-hyped for a while now, and the fact that you have to buy an apple tv to watch your movies on a bigger screen proves it.


You know you can buy a $10 AV cable and connect the iPod directly into the TV, right? I'd go as far to say that the Apple TV is a totally unrelated product aside from the fact that it involves watching/listening to your shows, movies, and music.

[hobojester]

I would Buy those iPod Video Things at $50 each, no more. I just like taking Things apart and look around inside.

[haanzz]

I'm just pointing out that there are better things than iPods if you look for them. For the average user, and iPod is quite good, but people who watch this show probably arn't average users.

I absolutely agree with you...I own the Creative Zen Vision:M myself (no iPod, just the Shuffle). That said, the iPod is the major market holder and there's tons of accessories for it (too much if you ask me), so it's worth covering in my opinion to show, at the very least, what's possible if you own one.

Hahn

[darknessgp]

At this point we do what we can. I'd love to explain the complexities of doing a show like InDigital, but I'd have to write several pages. Unlike the other shows on Revision3 that are purely based on the hosts, we depend on products just as much. We, unfortunately, aren't at the top of the PR list for products right now and I can't really afford to buy everything. We put a ton of requests out and look at the products as they arrive. Lately, it's been car stuff that's been coming through the door. The bottom line is that it all really depends on the number of viewers we have. The more viewers, the higher up the list we get and the faster we get products for the show. This isn't TechTV (yet) with 2 or 3 people working full time just to get products. Even then it was harder than you'd think. We'll get there eventually...it's a work in progress.

Hahn

ok, that makes sense then. I was thinking you guys were purposely doing all this car stuff, just starting to feel like overkill on it to me. But it really sucks that you guys have to rely on companies to send you there product. And since your low on the list you end up with IMO shitty (iPod projector?!!) or less known products. Glad to here that you guys are doing the best with what you have.

Seriously though, I would like to see a segment about wired/wireless media players. Not necessarily ones with HDDs or Linux boxes. But like the ones I listed in my previous post that act solely as a connection between computer and TV. I've been looking to replace my D-Link DSM-320, but there isn't much talk about those products, let alone reviews comparing them.

Anyways, keep up the great job and I hope you guys have better luck with getting products.

[haanzz]

Seriously though, I would like to see a segment about wired/wireless media players. Not necessarily ones with HDDs or Linux boxes. But like the ones I listed in my previous post that act solely as a connection between computer and TV. I've been looking to replace my D-Link DSM-320, but there isn't much talk about those products, let alone reviews comparing them.

Definitely in the works...I was thinking of starting with Netgear's new media player that I saw at CES. I usually start with one then request 3 or 4 others to compare.

Hahn

[dbbenny]

G-Tech G-PLAY Portable Media Player 40 GB

just a hard drive with usb connection.

I am thinking more down this line.

about $156 at amazon, no reviews yet. Can anyone
tell me what they think of it.

I like that its not wireless, less to the setup?

[mwhite]

With the DLO and ViewSonic products, clearly we're seeing a faulted attempt at bringing home the functionality and ease-of-use of the MP3 player.
The problem is obviously the glaring non-seamless adapting between the handheld MP3 player and the Home Theatre system.

If I were to purchase one of these, I'd be looking for a few things, such as DVI and/or HD capabilities being the main important one, but I think the easiest way to actually use the product should somehow be completely integrated--to put it bluntly, if I want to see my iPod music art and my iPod movies on a large screen, I would be looking for something that would allow my iPod touchscreen to be my remote. If they could make a dock that can make the iPod function as a remote for the device that puts the video on the screen as well as being able to control playback while the iPod remains in my hand while I sit comfortably at my chair, that would be excellent.
I don't really care what kind of additional costs would be necessary for this (if it truly is plausibly achievable), but I would sure be willing to fork it over.

[dignan17]

Could I make a request for a future product review? I've seen a few reviews of the Sanyo compact HD camcorder, but I'd really like to see a review of the Canon TX1. It's the same basic size, but costs at least $200 less. I suspect that Jessica wouldn't like the feel of it as much as the Sanyo, but it seems to have a lot going for it.

[dignan17]

I was also surprised that you guys on indigital didn't mention that you don't need a dock. Just a cheap cable can do it.

I did a quick search and you can read more about it here (http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/mac/2005/11/18/video-ipod.html?page=2), for example.

You can also buy a proprietary cable from Apple for a premium. Surprise! There's a standard cable out there, and Apple decided to simply rewire the connectors and make people buy their own white overpriced product. *sigh*

[casework]

I was also surprised that you guys on indigital didn't mention that you don't need a dock. Just a cheap cable can do it.

I did a quick search and you can read more about it here (http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/mac/2005/11/18/video-ipod.html?page=2), for example.

You can also buy a proprietary cable from Apple for a premium. Surprise! There's a standard cable out there, and Apple decided to simply rewire the connectors and make people buy their own white overpriced product. *sigh*

I posted that a few posts ago, but no one seems to be interested. If it were me, I'd be more upset at these accessory companies trying to rip us off, not Apple.

[yashar]

I like seeing all these cameras on InDigital, but what about helmet cameras for action sports? Anyone know of good helmet cameras? Preferably for motocross or motorcycle riding.

[dignan17]

I have a question for the InDigital folks. Do you not like Hahn? It seems like you don't. 75% of the time, his mic seems to be mixed about a third lower than Wil and Jessica's. Wil sounds like he's shouting in comparison. Go check out the episode you filmed at CES for a good example of this.

And Jessica, you kind of have a habit of interrupting Hahn. It happened twice in this episode.

Is it because he likes big TVs? I like big TVs too. Poor Hahn.

[alaskalonewolf]

Totally. I am glad someone else notices this stuff besides me.

[etd]

I almost bought the DLO home deluxe (the one that supports video navigation) however I found
this one out on the net while looking for something else (always happens)
The WiDock (http://www.silexamerica.com/wiDock/) ...
It's a wireless docking station that has audio and svideo outputs, supports wireless security and costs ~$50.00 less then the DLO Home Deluxe on Amazon.
It uses the Apple remote, however I've yet to find any info on the navigation features. Please Please Please review this so I don't have to risk my $109.00 plus shipping. :D
Thanks!

[haanzz]

I posted that a few posts ago, but no one seems to be interested. If it were me, I'd be more upset at these accessory companies trying to rip us off, not Apple.

I thought Jessica mentioned it in the wraps part of the show? It was brief...might have been in another take. We had a rough taping that day.

Hahn

[haanzz]

I have a question for the InDigital folks. Do you not like Hahn? It seems like you don't. 75% of the time, his mic seems to be mixed about a third lower than Wil and Jessica's. Wil sounds like he's shouting in comparison. Go check out the episode you filmed at CES for a good example of this.

And Jessica, you kind of have a habit of interrupting Hahn. It happened twice in this episode.

Is it because he likes big TVs? I like big TVs too. Poor Hahn.

CES was strange. I had my headset mic too far away from my mouth cause I kept breathing into the thing. Plus...I have this CES tradition...breakfast at 3-4 AM. I ended up sleeping for an hour on the floor of the house we rented. I wasn't very energetic that day.

As for the rest of the time...really? I never noticed...it's probably cause I don't sleep much before we shoot and my mind is pretty empty at that point. :-)

Hahn

[jessica]

I was also surprised that you guys on indigital didn't mention that you don't need a dock. Just a cheap cable can do it.

I did a quick search and you can read more about it here (http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/mac/2005/11/18/video-ipod.html?page=2), for example.

You can also buy a proprietary cable from Apple for a premium. Surprise! There's a standard cable out there, and Apple decided to simply rewire the connectors and make people buy their own white overpriced product. *sigh*

Yep... nice observation. We did mention briefly in wraps that you can just spend a fraction of the money and buy a cable. We should bring more light to these price effective options in the future.

[jessica]

CES was strange. I had my headset mic too far away from my mouth cause I kept breathing into the thing. Plus...I have this CES tradition...breakfast at 3-4 AM. I ended up sleeping for an hour on the floor of the house we rented. I wasn't very energetic that day.

As for the rest of the time...really? I never noticed...it's probably cause I don't sleep much before we shoot and my mind is pretty empty at that point. :-)

Hahn

Totally sorry if I interupt. Not my intention. I will watch it. But part of cohosting is banter, and sometimes that means we step on eachother's words every now and again.

[highlander411]

I work within the College Library and AV development department (team of 2) and this run close to what we're looking for. Diverse support for faculty and students to provide a "Smart Class Room" and large compatibility and easy to use system. Sure, IPod video only isn't good enough but all media input connections (USB, SD, ZD, Ipod, Zune, Network {Wifi & LAN}, IR) and Pushing enough light for a standard lecture room as well as keeping it around or under $2000 is. When will the manufactures create this simple machine? Or is it already here? If so I NEED the link. Thanks Don from Orlando Florida

[sithlrd]

I have the previous version of this camera and I LOVE it.

It's 600 dollars now: http://www.amazon.com/Sanyo-VPC-HD2-Definition-Camcorder-Optical/dp/B000M51NOU/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-9351338-5884009?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1180025067&sr=8-1

I carry two 4Gig SD cards and have never filled even one up before I got back to my PC or iMac to offload it.

[mlh49]

I was watching your podcast using an Archos 404 that was docked and hooked up to my TV. You should do a review on it. It does everything that you Ipod can't. Check it out.