Racial Profiling.... [Archive]

phatlip12

05-15-2007, 03:54 AM

You're not describing racial profiling. You're describing prejudice.

However, were the guys doing anything were menacing that just walking by being black? There are lots of visual cues for danger and you should keep yourself safe.

Nevertheless, if your only reason locking your doors is their Africaness, congrats, you are a racist.

Besides, A small group of motivated men are not going to stopped by your door lock. You might as well offer them the keys and hope they don't have a taste for white teenage ass.

When anybody walks by my car I lock the door (if there not already locked to begin with). It has nothing to do with their race, I just don't trust people.

I wouldn't go as far as saying locking the door due to race as being racists though. Sometimes, I think people are too quick to throw the racists card. Here is a hypothetical situation:

Lets say Klitzy was raised by racists parents. Klitzy himself may have nothing against black people, but being around racists parents his whole life may throw a "black=danger" trigger off in the back o f his mind in situations such as this (even though he has black friends and has no problem with black people). Does that make him racists? Does subconscious thoughts brought on by the environment one is raised in make them racists? Any psych majors here? :D

xibalba

05-15-2007, 04:00 AM

Yea I lock all doors when I see anyone near the car no matter what race they are. Too many crazy people out there.

brian1625

05-15-2007, 04:04 AM

Yeah, the Harvard Implicit test shows that the subconscious may act differently then the rationale/reflective mind. In other words, people who go to rallies to end prejudice may still be subconsciously prejudice.... does that mean they are a prejudice person? no.

Test yourself :D

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/

phatlip12

05-15-2007, 04:07 AM

As far as the question of "Is Racial Profiling wrong"? I don't think its wrong, I think its part of human nature sometimes. Its wrong if its acted upon (pulling African Americans over due to their race for example).

When i mention it being part of human nature consider the following situations:

The attacks on 9/11 were all carried out by men of middle eastern decent. I've never been on a plane my entire life, but I can ensure you I would be nervous to get on a plane for many reasons. If I saw a Muslim on a plane I think the first thing that would come to my mind would be 9/11. Thats as far as it would go though, I wouldn't stare him down or suggest that he is a terrorist. His race would only being a reminder of the event which is what I mean towards it being human nature.

tokenuser

05-15-2007, 04:09 AM

You might call it racial profiling, you might call it racism ... but in the end if you don't take steps to protect your personal safety in a situation you are not comfortable with, then you are a fool.

I am not talking about pulling out a gun, or anything like that, I am talking about locking your car doors in an unfamiliar neighbourhood, or not stopping at the ATM when there sk8r punks are hanging out. Be aware of your surroundings, but don't be completely paranoid about it.

The attacks on 9/11 were all carried out by men of middle eastern decent. I've never been on a plane my entire life, but I can ensure you I would be nervous to get on a plane for many reasons. If I saw a Muslim on a plane I think the first thing that would come to my mind would be 9/11. Thats as far as it would go though, I wouldn't stare him down or suggest that he is a terrorist. His race would only being a reminder of the event which is what I mean towards it being human nature.

<TokenUser shakes his head in amazement>

This is wrong on so many levels.

How about crossing to the other side of the street when you see an "asian dude" on campus (Korean, Chinese, Japanese - they alllook the same right?), or avoiding blonde haired military types in Oklahoma, or arresting a black guy in a white neighborhood on "suspicion". What about the "shoe bomber" guy??

I travel. I travel a lot. Domestically, Canada, Europe, Australia. I am more concerned about sitting next to a mother and child than next to someone from a foreign country (hell - *I* am from a foreign country).

Phatty, you need to get out more. There is more out there than Baltimore and Ocean City.

mushroom

05-15-2007, 04:10 AM

I never lock my doors

brian1625

05-15-2007, 04:14 AM

As far as the question of "Is Racial Profiling wrong"? I don't think its wrong, I think its part of human nature sometimes. Its wrong if its acted upon (pulling African Americans over due to their race for example).

Yeah, because it's human "nature", we like to generalize.. We're not good statistical machines. But the idea that it's human nature doesn't justify it. It's human nature to eat a lot of food, sugars, but we know better. [most of us anyway]

phatlip12

05-15-2007, 04:19 AM

Yeah, because it's human "nature", we like to generalize.. We're not good statistical machines. But the idea that it's human nature doesn't justify it. It's human nature to eat a lot of food, sugars, but we know better. [most of us anyway]

But what about the example I provided? Whats your opinion on that?

brian1625

05-15-2007, 04:28 AM

But what about the example I provided? Whats your opinion on that?

I agreed with it :)

After I re-read what I wrote it comes off as I'm disagreeing with you. But I'm more extending your valid point.

In other words, It's okay to be crave more food then you should eat, but not okay to act on it.

frodosringfinger

05-15-2007, 04:31 AM

People racially profile themselves.

The news racially profiles all murderers, robbers, and car jackers as blacks.
The news racially profiles all terrorists as Arabs.
Thats how the world is.

tokenuser

05-15-2007, 04:36 AM

The news racially profiles all terrorists as Arabs.What exactly IS an Arab? Why are they portrayed as terrorists?

http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Ss/0103639/ALADDIN02KP01-497-301c.jpg

Yep. You gotta what those Arabs. Especially the ones with blue genies, and flying carpets.

phatlip12

05-15-2007, 04:50 AM

People racially profile themselves.

The news racially profiles all murderers, robbers, and car jackers as blacks.
The news racially profiles all terrorists as Arabs.
Thats how the world is.

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/F/g/katrina_looting_vs_finding.jpg

electricalburn

05-15-2007, 04:53 AM

Klitzy i just think your a fvckin racist, straight up. why is a black man in your eyes more likely to steal from you than a white person? Ohh i forgot they might be in a different tax bracket than you.

"Hide, theres them colored people around"

The truth is that everyone fvckin sucks no matter what color they are. everyone wants what they dont have and everyone will do whatever they can to have it.

feel sorry for yourself dude

frodosringfinger

05-15-2007, 04:54 AM

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/F/g/katrina_looting_vs_finding.jpg

Wow, thats so wrong, but I find it funny. Rep to you for finding that. How the world is...

comhcinc

05-15-2007, 06:17 AM

frodosringfinger

05-15-2007, 06:23 AM

most crime in this country is commited by white males.
prove or concede.

phatlip12

05-15-2007, 06:27 AM

not only is racial profiling wrong, it doesn't work. most crime in this country is commited by white males. white christan males have commited more terrorist attacks in this country than any body else.

How many black serial killers do you see? Not many (actually, I've yet to hear of ANY black serial killer). They all seem to be white males...

frodosringfinger

05-15-2007, 06:29 AM

comhcinc

05-15-2007, 06:33 AM

prove or concede.
Quick Facts from the BoP
White: 111,090 (56.4 %)
Black: 79,249 (40.2 %)
Native American: 3,434 (1.7 %)
Asian: 3,238 (1.6 %)
LINK (http://www.bop.gov/news/quick.jsp)

comhcinc

05-15-2007, 06:35 AM

frodosringfinger

05-15-2007, 06:36 AM

Im not a racist. I have black friends. Im just not friends with the "gangstas".

More info on crimes and races.
http://www.answers.com/topic/race-and-crime

phatlip12

05-15-2007, 06:39 AM

Are you guys kidding? Can somebody please find a crime chart with race included. I guarantee white people don't commit the most crimes. Or maybe im just brain washed by the news...I cant see a story without a black man beating up an old woman for her purse.

A February 1997 report on rape and sexual-based crime published by the United States Department of Justice stated that of the crimes surveyed, 56% of arrestees were Caucasian, 42% were African American, and 2% were of other races. The report additionally noted that "[v]ictims of rape were about evenly divided between whites and blacks; in about 88% of forcible rapes, the victim and offender were of the same race."

A subsequent United States Department of Justice report which surveyed homicide statistics between 1974 and 2004 stated that of the crimes surveyed, 52.1% of the offenders were Black, 45.9% were White, and 2% were Other Races. Of the victims in those same crimes, 51% were White, 46.9% were Black, and 2.1% were Other Races. The report further noted that, "most murders are intraracial", with 86% of White murders committed by Whites, and 94% of Black murders committed by Blacks.

I got this information from wikipeida and it was backed up by a source.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime#United_States

I didn't look up info on my serial killer argument so I will leave you to the research on that one. I've just never heard tell of a black serial killer. I'm sure there are, but the majority seem to be white.

comhcinc

05-15-2007, 06:39 AM

Im not a racist. I have black friends. Im just not friends with the "gangstas".

More info on crimes and races.
http://www.answers.com/topic/race-and-crime

what does that prove other than the systerm is racist as well?

phatlip12

05-15-2007, 06:41 AM

Just a reminder to everyone:

Lets try to keep this conversation civil.

Keep in mind that this is the internet, so its close to impossible to determine whether the person at the other end of a computer is racists unless they come right out and say so.

frodosringfinger

05-15-2007, 06:46 AM

what does that prove other than the systerm is racist as well?

Stupidest thing I've heard all day.

phatlip12

05-15-2007, 06:47 AM

Regardless to any stats, it doesn't justify the fact that racial profiling is silly. Why is this - because everything is unique, not all things are the same. I'm guessing almost everyone that posted in this thread is a white male. If any of you are having trouble understanding why racial profiling is wrong take a look at your next car insurance bill and compare it to a girls. Young males have to pay more for the simple fact that statictics show they are more likely to speed. Do you think its fair for you to pay more just because you have a penis regardless of how you drive? Same thing.

frodosringfinger

05-15-2007, 06:50 AM

phatlip12

05-15-2007, 06:50 AM

Quick Facts from the BoP
White: 111,090 (56.4 %)
Black: 79,249 (40.2 %)
Native American: 3,434 (1.7 %)
Asian: 3,238 (1.6 %)
LINK (http://www.bop.gov/news/quick.jsp)

And to think an Asian shot and killed 30 people at VT just a month ago (even though racial profiling would of told you it was more likely to be a white or black person according to these stats). That just goes to show you acting on racial profiling is stupid.

comhcinc

05-15-2007, 06:51 AM

Stupidest thing I've heard all day.

Is it are you sure? (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=justice+system+%2Bracism&spell=1)

comhcinc

05-15-2007, 06:53 AM

And to think an Asian shot and killed 30 people at VT just a month ago (even though racial profiling would of told you it was more likely to be a white or black person according to these stats). That just goes to show you acting on racial profiling is stupid.

right also if you used profiling then it would seem you would be more likley to be involve in a crime commit by a native american. cause you just see those people all over the place:rolleyes:

frodosringfinger

05-15-2007, 06:57 AM

racism...get over it, it will never go away. If you dont want people to be racist towards you, never leave your bedroom.

And why is it, anytime somebody offends one black person ever so slightley, half of the country blows up and crys RACISM!
When white people are called crackers and made fun of in other ways, nobody cares.

comhcinc

05-15-2007, 07:01 AM

racism...get over it, it will never go away. If you dont want people to be racist towards you, never leave your bedroom.i don't believe that for one minute

And why is it, anytime somebody offends one black person ever so slightley, half of the country blows up and crys RACISM!
When white people are called crackers and made fun of in other ways, nobody cares.

what was that you said? oh yeah "prove or concede."

frodosringfinger

05-15-2007, 07:03 AM

Remember the guy from Seinfeld? He said the "N Word"....out comes the NAACP armies. I've seen Chris Rock say the word "cracka" many times...nothing.

comhcinc

05-15-2007, 07:07 AM

Remember the guy from Seinfeld? He said the "N Word"....out comes the NAACP armies. I've seen Chris Rock say the word "cracka" many times...nothing.

the differance being that one was yelling hate language at black people and the other guy is cracking jokes. you are going to have to do alot better than that

frodosringfinger

05-15-2007, 07:10 AM

I dont have to do anything. My opinions, black people are racially profiled more than anybody else. And I dont really care. "You're a racist!"
oh my, calling me a racist really hurts me...
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i65/jacestar911/thats_racist.gif

Im racist with black friends....yeah.

comhcinc

05-15-2007, 07:13 AM

so i guess that means you concede.

frodosringfinger

05-15-2007, 07:16 AM

comhcinc

05-15-2007, 07:23 AM

You know it and so do I. Any chance there is, the NAACP blows something out of proportion. Whens the last time you saw a white organization...if there is any, get country wide publicity for a black man offending a white man...with words.

I in fact do not know it. but what i do know is that the NAACP is not a "black" organization as you seem to be saying, on the other hand i can think of a couple of "white organizations" (http://www.kkk.com/)

again i am going to quote you. prove or concede.

masherscf

05-15-2007, 01:42 PM

Profiling of any kind is only a valid tactic for law enforcement. Profiling is not a good philosophy for everyday life. The theory is that police, hopefully but not always, have the brains to follow a profile properly.

If your acting or reacting solely on the basis of someone's race. It's a racists act. Individuals are incapable of profiling. You can't legitimize it by calling it profiling.

Now, the a big difference to locking your door because you're not familiar with a neighborhood or there a group of youths around that look bored. That's just good sense. That's is not profiling. That's protecting your shit.

sugarsickness

05-15-2007, 02:56 PM

Just a few hours ago I was watching an older episode of the HBO show Curb Your Enthusiasm. It was the one where Larry is coerced by his wife to fire his television repairman guy because, despite making weekly visits, their entertainment center was still not working properly. Larry was very against firing him solely because he was black and claimed that you can't do the slightest to a black man because then you get labelled a racist. His wife, however, convinced him to do it so Larry and the repairman go out to lunch and Larry tells him that he is fired. What happens? Well, of course, the repairman goes on and on about how it must be because he is black and calls Larry a racist at the restaurant. Larry tried to explain that it was his wife that wanted Larry to fire him but this only led to the repairman telling Larry to "at least be a man" about his racism.

My opinion? Racism can be very funny and/or amusing (http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/2248/1179236011402gt9.jpg) as long as it isn't taken too far or seriously. If someone doesn't like someone else because of their race - as long as they don't attack them or actually do anything - let them think what they want.

masherscf

05-15-2007, 03:16 PM

My opinion? Racism can be very funny and/or amusing (http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/2248/1179236011402gt9.jpg) as long as it isn't taken too far or seriously.

Racism is only funny of amusing in jokes. Then, only if it a funny joke. It is seldom funny or amusing in reality. It is certainly never funny to victims.

samureye

05-15-2007, 03:23 PM

After reading these pages, I have some reservations I'll keep to myself. Let me put this out.

racism : The belief that one 'racial group' is inferior to another and the practices of the dominant group to maintain the inferior position of the dominated group. Often defined as a combination of power, prejudice and discrimination.

prejudice: Prejudice is, as the name implies, the process of "pre-judging" something. In general, it implies coming to a judgment on the subject before learning where the preponderance of the evidence actually lies, or formation of a judgement without direct or actual experience. Holding a politically unpopular view is not in itself prejudice, and not all politically popular views are free of prejudice. ...

I think you can be prejudiced and not racist. This can't be generalized, though. For instance, if you are prejudiced in that you lock your door when you saw some black people, then fine. If they looked menacing, then so be it. I don't think anything is wrong with that.The same can be said for any other race, if people look menacing, then protect yourself. IF it is you do this for any black person, then you're racist. Not in the "white supremecy" sort of way but a "keep them away from me" sort of way. I'm not racist, I don't think I am any better than someone because of the colour of my skin.

klitzy

05-15-2007, 03:37 PM

I'm not racist, I don't think I am any better than someone because of the colour of my skin.

I don't think I am better than anyone else either but its true...When I see a black person on the street, I lock my doors. Or when I pass a black person on the street, I tremble a little. But here's my point....Is this not justified?

More crimes in America are committed by African Americans than whites. That is a fact. Look it up if you want.

More crimes in America occur in poor areas (white or black). This is also a fact. Look it up.

Now, when I pass through a poor geographical area, I lock my doors because more crimes are committed in this area.

Now, when I pass a black person, I lock my doors because more crimes are committed in this area.

Are these two situations not the same thing?

And as I am thinking about it....It might not be the color/race issue, it may just be how they present themselves. In my town, it is very rare to see a white guy in a baggy shirt with "gangsta" clothes on but it is very common to see a black dude with this style therefore it may be that I am responding by locking my doors to the outfit and not the skin and the skin color is a secondary aspect.

samureye

05-15-2007, 03:44 PM

I don't think I am better than anyone else either but its true...When I see a black person on the street, I lock my doors. Or when I pass a black person on the street, I tremble a little. But here's my point....Is this not justified?

More crimes in America are committed by African Americans than whites. That is a fact. Look it up if you want.

More crimes in America occur in poor areas (white or black). This is also a fact. Look it up.

Now, when I pass through a poor geographical area, I lock my doors because more crimes are committed in this area.

Now, when I pass a black person, I lock my doors because more crimes are committed in this area.

Are these two situations not the same thing?

And as I am thinking about it....It might not be the color/race issue, it may just be how they present themselves. In my town, it is very rare to see a white guy in a baggy shirt with "gangsta" clothes on but it is very common to see a black dude with this style therefore it may be that I am responding by locking my doors to the outfit and not the skin and the skin color is a secondary aspect.

If you're in a shady neighbourhood then fine. But, do you not like black people?

klitzy

05-15-2007, 03:47 PM

If you're in a shady neighbourhood then fine. But, do you not like black people?

No....Thats the thing. Im fine with black people. But leave the shady neighborhood a constant for the race issue. Doesnt matter where they are. The fact is...They are black, they commit more crimes (as a race), isn't that a good enough argument?

crumbles

05-15-2007, 03:51 PM

Klitzy i just think your a fvckin racist, straight up. why is a black man in your eyes more likely to steal from you than a white person?It might have something to do with the fact that more crimes are committed by black people?

I love how talking about statistical probability now makes you a racist.

Klitzy, I was having this same talk with someone the other day. I don't think you are a racist.

klitzy

05-15-2007, 03:53 PM

It might have something to do with the fact that more crimes are committed by black people?

I love how talking about statistical probability now makes you a racist.

Klitzy, I was having this same talk with someone the other day. I don't think you are a racist.

Hahaha...I am not a racist at all. Statistical probability. Exactly.

masherscf

05-15-2007, 03:56 PM

The fact is...They are black, they commit more crimes (as a race), isn't that a good enough argument?

Do people commit more crimes as their skin gets darker? Is their race the determining factor or is it something else that may be correlated with race.

Does it upset you when some makes a decision about the validity or your opinions, your qualifications or maturity based on your age?

Why is it okay for you to treat a single human being with less dignity because of the color of his skin and a statistic that has been reported to you by a third party.

I'm not saying your feelings aren't valid. But, the world is not such a black-and-white place.

klitzy

05-15-2007, 03:58 PM

klitzy

05-15-2007, 04:00 PM

Does it upset you when some makes a decision about the validity or your opinions, your qualifications or maturity based on your age?

Perfect example...A 12 year old kid comes in her and says "Hi guys...Im 12. Ill be posting here frequently." Everyone automatically assumes he will have nothing to offer because he is 12 without even seeing what he has to say or do. That is just like the race issue. A person sees someone is black and automatically assumes they could be dangerous.

masherscf

05-15-2007, 04:11 PM

person sees someone is black and automatically assumes they could be dangerous.

Here is something to think about.

There's a black-and-white issue. There is a rich-and-poor issue.

The real question is about opportunity. The opportunity to commit crimes or the opportunity NOT to commit them.

In my experience, the fact that 75% are not white Anglo Saxons protestants, minorities are not predisposed to commit crimes.

What about this statistic about blacks committing more crimes? Consider the source. More blacks are in jail for committing crimes. This may be the result of profiling just as it is the justification for it.

It may also be the blacks are given more opportunity by committing crimes because they don't have the same opportunities as other Americans. Maybe, opportunities were denied them because of people making decisions based on their race or economic background. I don't know.

You don't have to be Rosa Parks in the front of the bus. You just have to live every day thinking about giving every human being, regardless of sex, race, nationality or sexual expression the opportunity to prove to you that they are persons of quality. If they all really suck, as 'Burnie says. At least it's not because of something you did.

samureye

05-15-2007, 04:13 PM

Apparently there was a study saying NBA refs are racist because they call more fouls on black players or something. If you can't see the glaring error there, and I think you can, I'd say that statistics are BS. I recall reading about a scientist or researcher or whatever, people used his stats for years, only for it to come out that he was faking stuff. Forget third parties, go with your own thing. If you know people dress like gangstas in your neighbourhood but don't do anything, then let it be, don't make it out to be more than it is.

masherscf

05-15-2007, 04:29 PM

Apparently there was a study saying NBA refs are racist because they call more fouls on black players or something.

I've read that. I'm not sure I believe it either. The NBA, of course, refutes it with their own numbers. There methodology was kinda funny. The looked at the number of total fouls called against teams versus the number of black players.

That is, the study could not tell if any particular foul was called against a white or black player, just that make-up of that team was dominantly black for that game.

The NBA claims that it has more precise numbers. I see no reason why the numbers should disagree. But they seem to. There's some talk that teams have different levels of aggressive play and the refs actually target that. How the race component works in is beyond me. Nevertheless, there are statistical correlation between race and other factors.

However, a statistical correlation is not proof of cause. For example, there is a correlation between people being absent from my class and people failing my class. That doesn't mean that people failed because they missed class. They may have missed class because they were failing.

One of the most frustrating notions in Probability and Statistics is that people misunderstand the difference between them.

Statistics is about the past. Probability is about the future.

People often use past performance to predict future events. Sometimes, this works but sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes looking at stats helps you understand a system better. However, statistics themselves do not cause future behavior.

klitzy

05-15-2007, 04:30 PM

What about this statistic about blacks committing more crimes? Consider the source. More blacks are in jail for committing crimes. This may be the result of profiling just as it is the justification for it.

See..I was going to wait to see if that argument came up. I think that is the best anyone can give that the whole judicial system is racist.

masherscf

05-15-2007, 04:43 PM

See..I was going to wait to see if that argument came up. I think that is the best anyone can give that the whole judicial system is racist.

I don't believe the "whole system" is racist. However, it does favor people with money. And, it is the truth that white people have more money.

crumbles

05-15-2007, 04:45 PM

And, it is the truth that white people have more money.
Dude, you're a racist.

samureye

05-15-2007, 04:53 PM

Dude, you're a racist.

For saying the truth? You know there are probably more blacks than whites in Brooklyn ghettos? Did you know Asian people use chopsticks? I guess I'm racist too!

phatlip12

05-15-2007, 04:54 PM

Klitzy, I get what your saying but you can't justify racial profiling due to statistics. Males that are in our age group are more likely to speed and get in car accidents then any other age group (or sex). Does that make you shivver every time you get in the car with your buddies? How about when you see a younger person next to you on the road, do you get scared?

I go back to my VT/ serial killer argument. Statistics would of shown it to be more likely for the killer to be white or African American. The killer was Asian; the least likely to carry out an act such as this due to "statistical probability".

Almost all serial killers are white. Does that make you afraid of white people?

All I'm saying is it's crazy to walk around afraid of other people do to their race. Were not computers, and shouldn't analyze all real life situations by statistics. It all comes down to using your head. If a person looks shady then they look shady, be smart - lock your doors and keep yourself safe. If your going as far as shivering by simply walking by a black person then I think you need to rethink your outlook on some things.

masherscf

05-15-2007, 05:00 PM

Dude, you're a racist.

I didn't make that up. It's not an opinion. It's just numbers

The census Bureau gives these numbers.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fc/American_Income.png

Look at that, us educated people have more money than you uneducated people too.

crumbles

05-15-2007, 05:04 PM

For saying the truth? You know there are probably more blacks than whites in Brooklyn ghettos? Did you know Asian people use chopsticks? I guess I'm racist too!I didn't make that up. It's not an opinion. It's just numbers.Wow, you guys are smart!

I was making a point for people calling Klitzy a racist. Congrats, you proved my point.

masherscf

05-15-2007, 05:15 PM

Wow, you guys are smart!

I was making a point for people calling Klitzy a racist. Congrats, you proved my point.

Kiltzy asked about making a prediction about an individual based on race. That is racist. It was a hypothetical question.

Quoting a racial correlated statistic is not racist.

Saying :"There are more blacks in prison than whites" is not racist.

Predicting a future event based on race is racist.

Saying "That black man is more likely to commit as crime than an equally placed white man" is racist.

My whole message to Klitzy, which gets muddled by this silly discussion about what is racists and what is not is...

Wait for it

If he made his decision based entirely on race, then it is a racist decision. However, I expect that if there were other factors that he is not aware of contributed to his decision that were not based on race. I don't think Klitzy is a racist. I just wanted him to come to the conclusion himself.

crumbles

05-15-2007, 05:28 PM

So what you're saying is if 90% of orange people rob people, and 10% of blue people rob people than it's racist for me to say that I should act more cautious around a orange person that I don't know?

frodosringfinger

05-15-2007, 05:34 PM

If you're in a shady neighbourhood then fine. But, do you not like black people?
I'll answer this.
I like black people.
The ones who aren't uber racist towards every white person in the world, and the ones who aren't thugs and gangstas.

sugarsickness

05-15-2007, 05:36 PM

So what you're saying is if 90% of orange people rob people, and 10% of blue people rob people than it's racist for me to say that I should act more cautious around a orange person that I don't know?

Yeah, I really don't see what the fuss is about. I don't think it is like Klitzy won't get to know them/be there friend/treat them nice because of their race. He is just nervous/cautious around black people he doesn't know? Why is that a big deal, really? "Racist" is a label that has some pretty nasty things associated with it and the fact that he even made this thread questioning if his feelings toward this were "racist" or not gives me a clear sign that his cautiousness around black people isn't anything at all malicious.

masherscf

05-15-2007, 05:41 PM

So what you're saying is if 90% of orange people rob people, and 10% of blue people rob people than it's racist for me to say that I should act more cautious around a orange person that I don't know?

In this country, we do not hold people responsible for the crimes or their family member, neighbors and members of the same ethnic group. It is Unamerican.

Predicting that a given orange person will rob you and an equally placed blue person will not, is colorist.

Unless, you establish a link between skin color a predisposition to crime that is not based on past numbers.

You're argument is based on the premise that one ethnic group is better than another because of past behavior.

This is like not giving you a home loan because your uncle defaulted on his.

I'm not saying. "Don't protect yourself from the evil black people" I'm saying "Protect your self from the evil, not blackness"

crumbles

05-15-2007, 05:50 PM

Klitzy, I get what your saying but you can't justify racial profiling due to statistics.Yes. You can. What you mean is you "don't want to." Totally different.

Males that are in our age group are more likely to speed and get in car accidents then any other age group (or sex). Does that make you shivver every time you get in the car with your buddies? How about when you see a younger person next to you on the road, do you get scared?Yes. So do the insurance companies. Hence your rates being higher.

...or African American.You mean black. Who the hell started this African American crap? I'm white. They're black. Get over it. Do you even know anyone from Africa?

To take something from Maddox:

First of all, the label "African American" is the dumbest, most persistently used phrase in our vernacular. Every time you call someone an "African American," you're making at least two assumptions about the person:

1. That the person is an American. For example, if you saw this guy walking along on a street, you would probably think:

Note: there is no 'Arial African American' font, so I settled for the more oppressive 'Arial Black.'

...which is fine, except for one small detail: this man is British, which makes you a presumptuous cock.

2. That the person is African (because it's inconceivable that black people could come from Haiti, India, Trinidad, Dominican Republic, Brazil, Australia, or Jamaica). Nevermind that; BLACK PEOPLE ONLY COME FROM AFRICA.

Not to mention that every time you give a black person the distinction of being "African American" out of a mixed group, you're making an assumption about an entire continent; not everyone from Africa is black. I guarantee all you politically correct morons out there have never called a white person an African American. Of course you could avoid all these problems by using the same standards on blacks as you would on whites by simply assuming that all whites are from Africa just as you do for all blacks, but that might be too forward, and in a polite society like ours, people would be all too pleased to point out which of the 192 countries you didn't guess they were actually from.

Almost all serial killers are white. Does that make you afraid of white people?White males out number black ma.... sorry "African American" males nearly 7 to 1 in the US. Here is a good article that takes a look at that:

http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/serial.htm

But if there were serial killers that were always white all the time, then yea. I'd say people could be concerned about it.

All I'm saying is it's crazy to walk around afraid of other people do to their race.He's not afraid. He's just being smart.

crumbles

05-15-2007, 05:53 PM

I'm not saying. "Don't protect yourself from the evil black people" I'm saying "Protect your self from the evil, not blackness"
Agreed. However, if more black people rob people than others, then yes, I'm going to watch my back around them more.

This is like not giving you a home loan because your uncle defaulted on his.OK, fine, so what about looking at it the other way. Black people get Negro funds, and Affirmative action. Why is that OK? You think it's fair for a black person to get a job you are more qualified for just because he's black?

frodosringfinger

05-15-2007, 05:54 PM

I like you crumbles.

casework

05-15-2007, 05:55 PM

Klitzy, before you get so content with your "statistics", think about this...

The National Institute of Drug Abuse estimated that while 12 percent of drug
users are black, they make up nearly 50 percent of all drug possession
arrests in the U.S. (The Black and White of Justice, Freedom Magazine, Volume 128)
According to the National Drug Strategy Network, although African Americans
make up less than one-third of the population in Georgia, the black arrest
rate for drugs is five times greater than the white arrest rate. In addition,
since 1990, African Americans have accounted for more than 75% of persons
incarcerated for drug offenses in Georgia and make up 97.7% of the people in
that state who are given life sentences for drug offenses.

Or how about...

In six California counties independently surveyed in 1995, 100% of those
individuals sent to trial on drug charges were minorities, while the
drug-using population in those same counties was more than 60% white.

http://www.peace.ca/truthaboutblackcrime.htm

Statistics only scratch the surface. There's more gun-related deaths in suburban schools than city schools. The crime rate has gone down in the past years, while media coverage has skyrocketed over 600%.

If you make sure your doors are locked because you are in a bad neighborhood, then good, you have common sense. I do too. Color should have nothing to do with it. If you don't make sure you protect yourself no matter who you are around, then it is just as foolish.

Trust me on this when I say I'm not some big ACLU freak, and I rarely agree with their methods of going about things, but these images are interesting. Just think about them, please...

http://www.hu.mtu.edu/~awysocki/aclu%20ads/man_on_left.gif

http://www.aclu.org/graphics/guilt_ad.jpg

masherscf

05-15-2007, 06:00 PM

Yes. So do the insurance companies. Hence your rates being higher.

You're correct. However, young people are physiologically different than adults.

So the black-white, young-old comparison doesn't really hold.

Alas, there is not a tangible physiological cause that makes blacks more predisposed to crime than white, the "crime-gene" as it were.

casework

05-15-2007, 06:04 PM

OK, fine, so what about looking at it the other way. Black people get Negro funds, and Affirmative action. Why is that OK? You think it's fair for a black person to get a job you are more qualified for just because he's black?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman

I'm not going to go deep into this, I'll just say a few things.

I'm black. Not African American. Racial profiling IS wrong. Profiling is useful, but it should involve much more than skin color. Affirmative action is horrible. Anything that puts anyone at a disadvantage should not be considered an effective policy in this country. Just because whites are the majority, that should not be grounds for unfair helpings.

Arguing against racial profiling and supporting things such as affirmative action do not go hand in hand.

And before you do, please, please, do not bring BET into this argument.

masherscf

05-15-2007, 06:15 PM

OK, fine, so what about looking at it the other way. Black people get Negro funds, and Affirmative action. Why is that OK? You think it's fair for a black person to get a job you are more qualified for just because he's black?

I never said this was okay.

I don't see any problem in helping historically oppressed people find opportunity. However, do I disapprove of denying opportunity to qualified people of a different race in order to accomplish it.

Is that what your worried about? Are you angry because you perceive that blacks are getting a preferential treatment?

crumbles

05-15-2007, 06:24 PM

You're correct. However, young people are physiologically different than adults.

So the black-white, young-old comparison doesn't really hold.I wasn't the one who made the argument. Phatlip did. I was responding to his argument.

Alas, there is not a tangible physiological cause that makes blacks more predisposed to crime than white, the "crime-gene" as it were.I don't think there is a "crime-gene." Probably more to do with how someone is raised.

I like you crumbles.Thanks! Are you a hot chick?

I'm black. Not African American....Affirmative action is horrible.Awesome! I have never seen the straw man thing before, I will check it out and read it all. Thanks for the link.

Are you angry because you perceive that blacks are getting a preferential treatment?Yes. I do believe that black people get preferential treatment. To take it further, it's not something I really "believe," it's something I see all the time. At work, on the news, whatever. My favorite part is once someone steps up and says: "Hey, wait a second, that's bullshit!" everyone just pulls out the race card.

masherscf

05-15-2007, 06:38 PM

I don't think there is a "crime-gene." Probably more to do with how someone is raised.

This is a problem. I'm trying not to generalize.

As much as I'd like to deny the effect the culture can have on predetermining an outcome, I don't want to be walking down the streets of Baghdad right now. A lot of the trouble we're having in Iraq right now is cultural. We expect them to act differently than they do and they suspect we have different motives than we do.

phatlip12

05-15-2007, 06:40 PM

He's not afraid. He's just being smart.

Alright, so your saying its ok to be cautious of black people due to statistics showing they commit more crimes. According to these "statistics", white people are the group right after blacks that commit the most crimes. Going off of your logic, your cautious of all white people as well?

comhcinc

05-15-2007, 06:43 PM

sugarsickness

05-15-2007, 06:52 PM

comhcinc

05-15-2007, 06:54 PM

in fact they are. i pulled my numbers staight the DoP.

phatlip12

05-15-2007, 06:59 PM

Yeah, your statistics are right and everyone else's are WRONG!

Let us begin to hate the Christians.

Statistics in general don't hold much weight in an argument. For every statistic one can bring up for an argument there are statistics another can pull up to disprove.

This is the point I'm trying to make, statistics are something to consider but shouldn't carry the weight of an argument.

sugarsickness

05-15-2007, 07:03 PM

phatlip12

05-15-2007, 07:11 PM

Hint: I was entirely joking with my last post and I, in fact, had that exact same idea in my head while posting.

Hint: sarcasm is hard to pick up on the internet

;) :P LOL

comhcinc

05-15-2007, 07:19 PM

Statistics in general don't hold much weight in an argument. For every statistic one can bring up for an argument there are statistics another can pull up to disprove.

This is the point I'm trying to make, statistics are something to consider but shouldn't carry the weight of an argument.

in this arguement numbers are very important.

many on here are using the prosition that since"blacks commit more crime" it is just caution when people are wary of black people. if (as i think i have) we can prove this as false, we can get beyond this and try to figure out the real reasons.

i bring up the "white christan terrorist" things cause some on here (i believe it was you phatlip12) that brought up being afraid to fly with arabs

xibalba

05-15-2007, 07:26 PM

Just like the arguement more blacks are on welfare than anyone other race but isn't the truth more whites are.

Since this is about race anyone here know or related to a true racist?

comhcinc

05-15-2007, 07:27 PM

dude i live in the south what do you think? oh and i believe you are right more white people are on welfare than blacks

phatlip12

05-15-2007, 07:29 PM

in this arguement numbers are very important.

many on here are using the prosition that since"blacks commit more crime" it is just caution when people are wary of black people. if (as i think i have) we can prove this as false, we can get beyond this and try to figure out the real reasons.

i bring up the "white christan terrorist" things cause some on here (i believe it was you phatlip12) that brought up being afraid to fly with arabs

No, you misunderstood me. I didn't say I was afraid to fly with arabs. I said seeing an arab on a plane my remind me of 9/11 but I wouldn't act on my thoughts. I wouldn't think "That guy may be a terrorist", seeing an arab on a plane would just remind me of the events. Theres a difference between subconscious thoughts and acting upon them (staring the man down and assuming he is a terrorist for example).

Statistics hold some meaning in this conversation, but many are basing their entire argument off of statistics alone. Some are saying "these statistics show black commit more crimes so lets be cautious of black" and are leaving their argument at that. Instead of doing this, how about looking as to what may make this statistic true (some sort of genetic differences as masher said, difference in class perhaps).

The same can be said for both sides of the argument. Sometimes you have to get away from the stats and think about things logically. We can sit here all day exchanging stats that disprove each others or we can think about it logically. Are all things in the world the same or is everything unique in one way or another? The answer is no, not all things are the same and everything is unique. Assuming a person is more likely to commit a crime due to a color is nonsense. Unless I see something to back up the stats, they mean nothing to me.

sugarsickness

05-15-2007, 07:29 PM

phatlip12

05-15-2007, 07:30 PM

Just like the arguement more blacks are on welfare than anyone other race but isn't the truth more whites are.

Since this is about race anyone here know or related to a true racist?

I know a racists person that is a card carrying member of the NAACP because this person thought it would be funny.

frodosringfinger

05-15-2007, 07:34 PM

i tell you i go to donate blood and looks what happens.okay people i am going to go over this again.
white males commit more crimes in this country than any one else. christan white males have commited more terrorist acts in this country than any one else. all you got to do is look back over this thread to see where i have proved this
linking to a little website that says white males commit more crimes isnt proving anything. I'm sorry...I guess all the stories I see on the news everyday are about white people punching old men in the face to steal their car, beating up 90 year old women for $12, and its white men shooting people at MTA stations for a turkey sandwich. </endsarcasm>

Yeah look it up, a black man killed a 14 year old and a 16 year old in Maryland for a turkey sandwich.

crumbles

05-15-2007, 07:34 PM

Just like the arguement more blacks are on welfare than anyone other race but isn't the truth more whites are.Don't forget that white people outnumber blacks 7 to 1 in the US.

phatlip12

05-15-2007, 07:48 PM

linking to a little website that says white males commit more crimes isnt proving anything. I'm sorry...I guess all the stories I see on the news everyday are about white people punching old men in the face to steal their car, beating up 90 year old women for $12, and its white men shooting people at MTA stations for a turkey sandwich. </endsarcasm>

Yeah look it up, a black man killed a 14 year old and a 16 year old in Maryland for a turkey sandwich.

Yes, A black man killed two people. Let's now assume all black people are likely to do the same thing. </end sarcasm>

xibalba

05-15-2007, 07:48 PM

Don't forget that white people outnumber blacks 7 to 1 in the US.

I think the % of w/b people on welfare is very close just a few percentage points off can't find the stats at the moment. Not a valid argument either way really.

comhcinc

05-15-2007, 07:53 PM

linking to a little website that says white males commit more crimes isnt proving anything. I'm sorry...I guess all the stories I see on the news everyday are about white people punching old men in the face to steal their car, beating up 90 year old women for $12, and its white men shooting people at MTA stations for a turkey sandwich. </endsarcasm>

Yeah look it up, a black man killed a 14 year old and a 16 year old in Maryland for a turkey sandwich.

first off rush, it wasn't some "little website" it was the Department of Prison's fact sheet. if you have some proof that you are right,other that "all the black people you see on tv". please feel free to post it.

phatlip12

05-15-2007, 07:56 PM

tokenuser

05-15-2007, 08:04 PM

I heard that every time Phatty drives down the street, blacks and hispanics put down their physics texts, drop their copies of Chaucer, and don their "bling". They then go down to the stret corner and glare menacingly at the white boy in the Nissan with the fart coffee can exhaust.

They love that shit. Much better than watching yet another episode of Oprah.

Its something about keeping the profiling pure. If you can profile them as being threatening, they can profile you as being gullible (or a target).

crumbles

05-15-2007, 08:12 PM

Hey Crumbles, for somebody that seems so strong in the belief that blacks are the main contributers to crime - I've yet to see you post any information what so ever that backs this claim. Would you mind doing that?How about the FBI website?

Crime Index
Year All Races White Nonwhite
1993 1,144.5 827.8 2,721.0
1994 1,140.1 841.3 2,610.8
1995 1,134.5 832.3 2,606.1
1996 1,069.5 801.6 2,360.2
1997 1,050.0 780.2 2,335.8
1998 956.9 722.1 2,064.1
1999 864.8 655.2 1,844.0
2000 809.0 616.7 1,698.6
2001 791.3 615.1 1,534.9

Also, you're more than welcome to go take a look around at your county jail.

http://www.fbi.gov/filelink.html?file=/ucr/adducr/rsar%20us.xls
http://www.fbi.gov/filelink.html?file=/ucr/adducr/jva%20rsar%20us%20t_w_aor.xls
http://www.fbi.gov/filelink.html?file=/ucr/adducr/jva%20rsar%20b_omr.xls

Again, call me a racist or whatever, I don't really care. I'm one of the friendliest people to everyone that is willing to hang out with me. I'm just more cautious around people I don't know.

comhcinc

05-15-2007, 08:17 PM

How about the FBI website?

Crime Index
Year All Races White Nonwhite
1993 1,144.5 827.8 2,721.0
1994 1,140.1 841.3 2,610.8
1995 1,134.5 832.3 2,606.1
1996 1,069.5 801.6 2,360.2
1997 1,050.0 780.2 2,335.8
1998 956.9 722.1 2,064.1
1999 864.8 655.2 1,844.0
2000 809.0 616.7 1,698.6
2001 791.3 615.1 1,534.9

Also, you're more than welcome to go take a look around at your county jail.

http://www.fbi.gov/filelink.html?file=/ucr/adducr/rsar%20us.xls
http://www.fbi.gov/filelink.html?file=/ucr/adducr/jva%20rsar%20us%20t_w_aor.xls
http://www.fbi.gov/filelink.html?file=/ucr/adducr/jva%20rsar%20b_omr.xls

Again, call me a racist or whatever, I don't really care. I'm one of the friendliest people to everyone that is willing to hang out with me. I'm just more cautious around people I don't know.

i believe non white cover more than black right? you know what i just looked back over that and those numbers make no sense

oh and i'm a volunteer deputy and last week my country jail had more white inmates than black

crumbles

05-15-2007, 08:20 PM

i believe non white cover more than black right? and giving that fact those numbers hurt your cause more than help.

oh and i'm a volunteer deputy and last week my country jail had more white inmates than black
Your posts make my head hurt.

comhcinc

05-15-2007, 08:38 PM

Your posts make my head hurt.

does it bother you so that you are wrong?
i just found this.

A review of the 2004 arrest data by race indicated that 70.8 percent of arrestees were white, 26.8 percent were black, and 2.4 percent were of other races (American Indian or Alaskan Native and Asian or Pacific Islander). Of all arrestees for violent crimes, 60.9 percent were white, 36.9 percent were black, and the remainder were of other races. Of all arrestees for property crimes, 69.3 percent were white, 28.2 percent were black and the remaining 2.5 percent were of other races. Whites were most commonly arrested for driving under the influence (893,212 arrests) and drug abuse violations (821,047 arrests). Blacks were most frequently arrested for drug abuse violations (406,890 arrests) and simple assaults (288,286 arrests)
LINK (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/persons_arrested/index.html)

electricalburn

05-15-2007, 08:48 PM

i just think its funny how stereotypes become popular belief

casework

05-15-2007, 09:29 PM

i just think its funny how stereotypes become popular belief

So true. That's about all I've taken away from this thread.

Nice post, comhcinc.

phatlip12

05-15-2007, 09:52 PM

How about the FBI website?

Crime Index
Year All Races White Nonwhite
1993 1,144.5 827.8 2,721.0
1994 1,140.1 841.3 2,610.8
1995 1,134.5 832.3 2,606.1
1996 1,069.5 801.6 2,360.2
1997 1,050.0 780.2 2,335.8
1998 956.9 722.1 2,064.1
1999 864.8 655.2 1,844.0
2000 809.0 616.7 1,698.6
2001 791.3 615.1 1,534.9Also, you're more than welcome to go take a look around at your county jail.

http://www.fbi.gov/filelink.html?file=/ucr/adducr/rsar%20us.xls
http://www.fbi.gov/filelink.html?file=/ucr/adducr/jva%20rsar%20us%20t_w_aor.xls
http://www.fbi.gov/filelink.html?file=/ucr/adducr/jva%20rsar%20b_omr.xls

Again, call me a racist or whatever, I don't really care. I'm one of the friendliest people to everyone that is willing to hang out with me. I'm just more cautious around people I don't know.

So giving those stats are you cautious of white people as well?

If your towards people you don't know thats understandable, I am as well. However, if your cautious due to nothing but race...then thats what I have a problem with.

crumbles

05-15-2007, 10:01 PM

does it bother you so that you are wrong?No. By all means if I'm wrong I'm open to changing my mind. I'm not a Democrat.

Your posts make my head hurt due to your horrific grammar and sentence structure.

i just found this.Great. You just showed that white people get arrested more for being drunk. Also, you still are ignoring that I have been saying white people out number black people 7 to 1 in the US.

Now just do what Phatlip does and disappear after the facts show up. (http://revision3.com/forum/showpost.php?p=79885&postcount=57)

So giving those stats are you cautious of white people as well?Yes. I'm cautious of anyone I don't know.

If your towards people you don't know thats understandable, I am as well. However, if your cautious due to nothing but race...then thats what I have a problem with.See above. However, again, yes, I am more cautious towards any race that is more prone to violence.

crumbles

05-15-2007, 10:03 PM

ten characters.

comhcinc

05-15-2007, 10:13 PM

No. By all means if I'm wrong I'm open to changing my mind. I'm not a Democrat..

so since you have been proven wrong, you have changed your mind?

However, again, yes, I am more cautious towards any race that is more prone to violence.

which in this country would be white people.

crumbles

05-15-2007, 10:34 PM

so since you have been proven wrong, you have changed your mind?Are you serious? Do you ever read anything, or do you just talk?

comhcinc

05-15-2007, 11:31 PM

Are you serious? Do you ever read anything, or do you just talk?

in fact i read alot. such as where you said
It might have something to do with the fact that more crimes are committed by black people?

which has been proven to be not true. then you said
Agreed. However, if more black people rob people than others, then yes, I'm going to watch my back around them more.
which has also has been proven wrong. you also mentioned that
However, again, yes, I am more cautious towards any race that is more prone to violence.
again, not true. and yet you said
No. By all means if I'm wrong I'm open to changing my mind.
are you?

frodosringfinger

05-15-2007, 11:51 PM

Whos more likely to jump you for your wallet?
...a group of white teenagers, or a group of black teenagers?

comhcinc

05-15-2007, 11:54 PM

Whos more likely to jump you for your wallet?
...a group of white teenagers, or a group of black teenagers?

every number i can find points to the white teenagers

frodosringfinger

05-15-2007, 11:56 PM

put your numbers aside, and tell us...who do you think would jump you most likely?

comhcinc

05-16-2007, 12:00 AM

the white kids

xibalba

05-16-2007, 12:07 AM

Don't fear one race fear them all cause everyone is capable of doing the same thing period.

rabidbadger

05-16-2007, 12:23 AM

All I know is that this thread is evidence that we can have a solid, real conversation about intense subjects... without resorting to too much flaming and such.

bravo.

comhcinc

05-16-2007, 12:26 AM

All I know is that this thread is evidence that we can have a solid, real conversation about intense subjects... without resorting to too much flaming and such.

bravo.

whatever, (insert favorite homophbic slur here) :D

phatlip12

05-16-2007, 12:30 AM

put your numbers aside, and tell us...who do you think would jump you most likely?

I can't answer that question, there isn't enough information. Can you possibly better describe the scenario? Did the white or black group give me a dirty look? Is one group walking around with weapons and the other one isnt?

If you can't provide any additional information then the question can't be answered. Color isn't enough to determine "who is more likely to jump me".

rabidbadger

05-16-2007, 12:31 AM

I don't get it? (don't bother explaining, just keep this smart thread going...)

Move along, nothing to see here in this post.

phatlip12

05-16-2007, 12:32 AM

Don't fear one race fear them all cause everyone is capable of doing the same thing period.
Well said

Thats what I was trying to say but without the sarcasm. :D

rabidbadger

05-16-2007, 12:33 AM

Whos more likely to jump you for your wallet?

ElectricalBurn FTW!!! :)

comhcinc

05-16-2007, 12:39 AM

I can't answer that question, there isn't enough information. Can you possibly better describe the scenario? Did the white or black group give me a dirty look? Is one group walking around with weapons and the other one isnt?

If you can't provide any additional information then the question can't be answered. Color isn't enough to determine "who is more likely to jump me".

how about this which of these groups are you more worry about?
a
http://www.hollywoodteenmovies.com/Mobsters.jpg
b
http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2006/03/30/Three6mafia_wideweb__470x312,0.jpg
or
c
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/99/01-jones-jim.jpg/220px-01-jones-jim.jpg
and yes i know c isn't a group

samureye

05-16-2007, 12:42 AM

3 6 Mafia aren't bad dudes! And Crunchy Black isn't even in that group anymore!

phatlip12

05-16-2007, 12:44 AM

Edit

Don't want to mess up comhcinc's experiment...

comhcinc

05-16-2007, 12:45 AM

you are messing up the experiment by giving away the identity of one of the pictures

phatlip12

05-16-2007, 12:46 AM

you are messing up the experiment by giving away the identity of one of the pictures

Fixed my post. :D

comhcinc

05-16-2007, 12:50 AM

lol i was talking about sammy

casework

05-16-2007, 01:00 AM

you are messing up the experiment by giving away the identity of one of the pictures

Heh, I was about to respond, but I see you know what you're doing.. ;)

comhcinc

05-16-2007, 01:02 AM

good to know i make sense to some one

samureye

05-16-2007, 01:24 AM

Wait, was that Jim Jones or some cult leader?

electricalburn

05-16-2007, 03:06 AM

ElectricalBurn FTW!!! :)

LMAO dude, get jumped off the path from hoboken to nyc 42nd and 6th more then once and still aint racist

logant

05-16-2007, 03:29 AM

I don't think it has anything to do with skin color. I think it is mostly the way the y present themselves. If you see a black guy walking past you with a polo shirt and Khakis, you really don't think of him as a bad guy. You would think of him as a smart individual who went to college and has a good job. But when you see black people with 4 XXL shirts and oversized FUBU jeans, you think differently.

comhcinc

05-16-2007, 03:32 AM

why ?

rabidbadger

05-16-2007, 03:35 AM

LMAO dude, get jumped off the path from hoboken to nyc 42nd and 6th more then once and still aint racist

You weren't supposed to see that... ;) :D :p

electricalburn

05-16-2007, 03:36 AM

alexg

05-16-2007, 03:44 AM

But when you see black people with 4 XXL shirts and oversized FUBU jeans, you think differently.

I think you meant to say "I" think differently.

electricalburn

05-16-2007, 03:47 AM

I think you meant to say "I" think differently.

yeah keep your racism to yourself...

xibalba

05-16-2007, 03:49 AM

I'm more afraid of white people then anyone else they tend to kill and eat people.

frodosringfinger

05-16-2007, 03:50 AM

I agree with him. When I'm driving through the city, I see people walking down the street with 4xl t-shirts down to their knees. Makes me think they're hiding guns or something under their skirt, i mean shirt. It really is a lot about presentation. Dont act like a gangsta, and people wont think you're up to no good. And thats not just black people. I see white guys wearing dress like t-shirts all the time too.

electricalburn

05-16-2007, 03:52 AM

i rather be muged then eatin by all them white serial killers

phatlip12

05-16-2007, 03:57 AM

Here is a real life scenario for you guys....

My cousin was jumped by 4 guys tonight, they were all white. Luckily he is fine, my other cousin (his brother) was with him and maced the guys. Everyone ended up getting mace in their eyes so nobody could see (which is a good things because the fight couldn't carry on).

This is just another example for you guys. He wasnt jumped by black guys, it was 4 white teenagers.

phatlip12

05-16-2007, 03:59 AM

electricalburn

05-16-2007, 04:02 AM

i live in inter-city and no excuse even though baltimore is badass still newark nj is no better

frodosringfinger

05-16-2007, 04:36 AM

What part of Baltimore do you live in? I used to live just a few minutes outside of the city.
I'm right on the good side. About 4 minutes away from the slums. Do you know the Glen Burnie mall?

alexg

05-16-2007, 04:37 AM

I'm really tired of the 'well, if you don't want to be treated like a gangsta don't wear big clothes" thing. I mean come on. So what's the alternative have one group decide what "acceptable" clothing is? Lame. Being afraid of another person because of their clothing is a problem.

go listen to addictedtorace.com podcast...educate yourselves.

logant

05-16-2007, 04:38 AM

yeah keep your racism to yourself...

It has nothing to do with racism. It has all to do with the way you represent yourself. If you're dressed like Paul Wall, I'm not going to think highly of you. No matter what skin color.

frodosringfinger

05-16-2007, 04:39 AM

Dressing up like a thug makes you look like you're up to no good. It doesnt mean that you're actually up to no good...just looks like you are.

alexg

05-16-2007, 04:41 AM

It has nothing to do with racism. It has all to do with the way you represent yourself. If you're dressed like Paul Wall, I'm not going to think highly of you. No matter what skin color.

But you are deciding what is acceptable for other people to wear based on your own beliefs. Not racism perhaps, but certainly classism.

frodosringfinger

05-16-2007, 05:00 AM

phatlip12

05-16-2007, 05:06 AM

He is not deciding it. Society decides what is accepatable. Would you go to a job interview wearing a XXXL t-shirt down to your knees, baggy pants, underwear showing, and doo rap on your head? No, because its not appropriate to dress like that.

Yes, but you are part of society. Who cares how they dress in there own free time. Hanging out with your friends and going to a job interview are two different things.

frodosringfinger

05-16-2007, 05:09 AM

well I guess its called style profiling. Because when I see somebody dressed like that, I cant help from thinking they're a criminal, or somebody who likes to act like a gangster.

alexg

05-16-2007, 05:12 AM

well I guess its called style profiling. Because when I see somebody dressed like that, I cant help from thinking they're a criminal, or somebody who likes to act like a gangster.

yeah, I don't know what to tell you, that's your issue based on fear, and none of us can blame "society" for that.

phatlip12

05-16-2007, 05:15 AM

well I guess its called style profiling. Because when I see somebody dressed like that, I cant help from thinking they're a criminal, or somebody who likes to act like a gangster.

You seem to be VERY judgmental of people. How would you feel if somebody looked at you and said "He's a nerd that will never ever get a girlfriend"?

Wearing clothes such as they doesn't make them a criminal...it's one of the styles now. Other people do the emo/skater look and some go with the preppy look. It's all personal preference and is wrong to pass judgment towards a person because of it IMO.

frodosringfinger

05-16-2007, 05:16 AM

alexg

05-16-2007, 05:22 AM

Well, the thread is called racial profiling, and you are admitting to engaging in racial profiling, hard not to talk about it.

Ok, so new subtopic. Is racial profiling of "terror suspects" justified?

frodosringfinger

05-16-2007, 05:26 AM

Talking about people who dress like gangsters isnt racially profiling. I see just as many white people dress like that as black people.

Is racial profiling of "terror suspects" justified?
not justified, but what can ya do?

alexg

05-16-2007, 05:28 AM

Is racial profiling of "terror suspects" justified?
not justified, but what can ya do?

This is a good question...I live in NYC and we have cops checkin bags at most subway stations...They gotta be engaging in profiling whether consciously or not.

comhcinc

05-16-2007, 05:44 AM

He is not deciding it. Society decides what is accepatable. Would you go to a job interview wearing a XXXL t-shirt down to your knees, baggy pants, underwear showing, and doo rap on your head? No, because its not appropriate to dress like that.

how can you"have a shirt down to your knees" and have your "underwear showing"? and what is a "doo rap"?

comhcinc

05-16-2007, 05:49 AM

Ok, so new subtopic. Is racial profiling of "terror suspects" justified?

no. because they are people who look "arab" when the fact of the matter most terrorist acts in this country have been done by white christan men.

ariastar

05-16-2007, 08:19 AM

I'm not taking time right now to read all the comments, so this is my unadultered opinion.

No, you are not racist. You are profiling based on what we are presented in the media and the news. Young blonde whiter girls are to be searched for with no expense spared when they disappear because they are more delicate and most black people are thugs. Or at least this is how it is if you pay attention to the media. What is presented is disproportionate to fact. Crimes are committed by people of all races and income brackets, but those at the higher end of income, who do tend to be white, have the good attorneys to get them off and the poorer, more blacks and Mexicans (this may or may not have to do with race, may or may not have to do with individual mindset and work ethic - I'm not speculating on this right now unless asked) are stuck with overworked public defenders who will say to take a plea, even if innocent. So we have more minorities in jail in proportion to crime-breakers overall, and this is what we see in the media. Let's completely forget that more murders are committed by white people and that almost every serial killer in American history has been white. Since so little is shown at all, we come to believe that the world is full of bad people and very few good. When we are bombarded with images of blacks who committed crimes, but aren't seeing the whites. So we are basically conditioned to fear black people. The news is partially information, larger part "entertainment" and about ratings.

Don't think we are given skewed information? What is the name of the other woman taken prisoner with Jessica Lynch, tortured in the exact same ways, and rescued the same day from the same hospital? What? You didn't even know there was another woman? She's a black single mother. And the media has no sympathy for black single mothers, but the single, childless white woman is somehow more valuable and must be shown as a hero.

Men are also shown to be more likely to commit crimes, causing women to be more afraid of men. However, more women murder their children than men, and women are more likely to be child abusers (true, but women are rarely found guilty, and, as men are more likely to abuse their significant others, they absorb the rap of being child abusers).

The media takes advantage of the stereotypes it causes to fuck with our thinking for ratings.

That's what's going on Klitzy. You are not racist, just a product of American media.

ariastar

05-16-2007, 08:23 AM

It is my issue. I'm sorry...I see somebody dressed like a gangster, I fear for my wallet...and my life.

I know it may seem stupid to you guys. Just how I feel.

we need a new topic...this hasnt stopped since last night.

Dressing like a gangster is a conscious choice and not tied to any ethnicity. Wearing bandanas and sagging pants down to the knees in not part of any race or culture aside from the created thug culture, and participation, bu choice, is aligning the person with a criminal lifestyle. Wearing a turban is ethnic. So fearing for your life over someone dressing gangster is fine. You are fearing the display of their choice. Fearing someone in a turban is something different as this is part of the wearer's culture.

*I know is it choice to abide by cultural customs, but you get my point.

ariastar

05-16-2007, 08:29 AM

You seem to be VERY judgmental of people. How would you feel if somebody looked at you and said "He's a nerd that will never ever get a girlfriend"?

This is often said about geeks.

Wearing clothes such as they doesn't make them a criminal...it's one of the styles now. Other people do the emo/skater look and some go with the preppy look. It's all personal preference and is wrong to pass judgment towards a person because of it IMO.

This depends where the hell you are. If in some small, low-crime midwestern town, then it's a fad. In high school in Oregon, I routinely wore blue, red, and black bandanas. But when I came back to California on vacation, the bandanas stayed in Oregon.

Around here, if I saw someone dressed as a thug, and by this I mean beyond sagging slightly with a baggy shirt (though young people are more likely to be preps), I worry that crime from South San Jose or Oakland is making its way closer to me. Around here, even though it's a generally safe area, you do NOT wear certain items of clothing due to our proximity to gangs. Even though, for the most part, crime respects certain boundaries, you just do not take the chance. Anyone wearing a blue bandana or red IS very likely to be involved with gang activity. In this case, it is not wrong to pass judgment. It's being safe.

Would you go to Watts and presume that people wearing gang clothing are just following a fad or would you worry that they are probably affiliated with gangs? If the later, sorry, but you're stupid.

alexg

05-16-2007, 02:27 PM

no. because they are people who look "arab" when the fact of the matter most terrorist acts in this country have been done by white christan men.

Damn right...

masherscf

05-16-2007, 03:44 PM

The next time you think that "profiling" people by clothing is okay, remember the poor Sikh gas station attendant that was beaten to death because he was wearing a turban. Not only was he not a terrorist, he wasn't Muslim. In fact, the Muslim's have been killing his people for hundreds of years. He probably hated Muslims more than the fellas who beat him to death because they thought he was a Muslim.

phatlip12

05-16-2007, 04:22 PM

This is often said about geeks.

This depends where the hell you are. If in some small, low-crime midwestern town, then it's a fad. In high school in Oregon, I routinely wore blue, red, and black bandanas. But when I came back to California on vacation, the bandanas stayed in Oregon.

Around here, if I saw someone dressed as a thug, and by this I mean beyond sagging slightly with a baggy shirt (though young people are more likely to be preps), I worry that crime from South San Jose or Oakland is making its way closer to me. Around here, even though it's a generally safe area, you do NOT wear certain items of clothing due to our proximity to gangs. Even though, for the most part, crime respects certain boundaries, you just do not take the chance. Anyone wearing a blue bandana or red IS very likely to be involved with gang activity. In this case, it is not wrong to pass judgment. It's being safe.

Would you go to Watts and presume that people wearing gang clothing are just following a fad or would you worry that they are probably affiliated with gangs? If the later, sorry, but you're stupid.

Aria, I love ya dear...but your wrong.

I lived in Baltimore for 10 years and still go to the city all the time to this day. Baltimore to my recollection has the highest murder rate in the entire country. It doesn't depend where you are, itt's a fashion statement. I know just as many people that sell drugs with the "skater look" as I do with people that have the "gangster look" (and the preppy look for the matter).

Wearing gang colors as compared to a long white tee and baggy pants is a different thing. My uncle is a biker and wears "biker clothing" when he rides, thats different from him wearing a "hells angles" jacket....

I'm honestly shocked at the number of people scared of a teenager wearing baggy pants and a long tee with a hat to the side. How do you people go to the movies or mall...or anywhere for the matter without "fearing for your life". I kind of feel bad for you guys actually. I'm saying that in the most sincere way, I'm not trying to be an ass or anything...but I really do feel bad.

tokenuser

05-16-2007, 05:02 PM

I'm honestly shocked at the number of people scared of a teenager wearing baggy pants and a long tee with a hat to the side. How do you people go to the movies or mall...or anywhere for the matter without "fearing for your life". I kind of feel bad for you guys actually. I'm saying that in the most sincere way, I'm not trying to be an ass or anything...but I really do feel bad.Didn't you make the same comment about making sure your doors were locked when yo saw people dressed similarly?

(BTW - MY doors auto lock :) inbuilt paranoia from Chrysler).

phatlip12

05-16-2007, 05:10 PM

Didn't you make the same comment about making sure your doors were locked when yo saw people dressed similarly?

(BTW - MY doors auto lock :) inbuilt paranoia from Chrysler).

No, what I said was:

When anybody walks by my car I lock the door (if there not already locked to begin with). It has nothing to do with their race, I just don't trust people.

It doesn't matter if it's the homeless man talking to himself or the business man wearing a suit. If they are are walking by my car and my doors aren't already locked for some reason then there getting locked. ;)

comhcinc

05-16-2007, 05:31 PM

masherscf

05-16-2007, 05:36 PM

The number one cause of petty crime is drug abuse. Drug abuse doesn't know any ethnic barrier.

In any case, If you leave $100 on the seat of your car and the car unlocked. Chances are good that someone will swipe it. It really doesn't matter where you park.

Someone could swipe it because they need it for drugs or baby diapers. Some one could swipe it just because they figure they want it more than you. Somebody may swipe it just because it makes them feel good to steal things. The point is, lock your doors...you don't need a reason.

comhcinc

05-16-2007, 05:44 PM

In any case, If you leave $100 on the seat of your car and the car unlocked. Chances are good that someone will swipe it.

chances are if you leave $100 on the seat and locked the doors, someone will swipe it. then you are out your $100 bucks plus the price of your window. i have found that just putting anything of vaule in the trunk(when i drive a car) and leaving the doors unlocked solves most of these problems.
but that's not what i was really asking. i was more wondering about having the doors locked while you are in the car

masherscf

05-16-2007, 06:04 PM

but that's not what i was really asking. i was more wondering about having the doors locked while you are in the car

Locking the door isn't about safety from thugs, it's about accident safety. It's is less likely the doors will fail in a accident if the doors are locked. However, when you do have a wreck, they'll have to come cut you out.

My VW locks the doors automatically as well.

I don't think locked doors are gonna keep out anyone determined you have your ass for breakfast.

phatlip12

05-16-2007, 06:05 PM

question: if someone want in your car for some reason do you really believe a locked door will stop them, or is the one of those"feel safer" things?

btw i ride a motorcycle most of the time and thus i never lock my door

Sure they can get it, but why make it any easier for them? Locking the doors increases the chances of you keeping your car.

masherscf

05-16-2007, 06:10 PM

Sure they can get it, but why make it any easier for them? Locking the doors increases the chances of you keeping your car.

Driving a car that no one wants to steal increases your chance of keeping your car.

comhcinc

05-16-2007, 06:18 PM

Driving a car that no one wants to steal increases your chance of keeping your car.
are you saying something about my '86 corolla with 221,000 miles on it?

masherscf

05-16-2007, 06:22 PM

are you saying something about my '86 corolla with 221,000 miles on it?

Geez, I guess I better trade my 2000 Jetta w/ 130,000 for something shittier.

ariastar

05-17-2007, 04:50 AM

Wearing gang colors as compared to a long white tee and baggy pants is a different thing. My uncle is a biker and wears "biker clothing" when he rides, thats different from him wearing a "hells angles" jacket....

Honey. I said, "Around here, if I saw someone dressed as a thug, and by this I mean beyond sagging slightly with a baggy shirt...."

Yeah, if you see someone who goes beyond that, you fear. If you saw a Hell's Angels jacket, unless you know how to talk the talk to not get your ass kicked, you fear. The baggy pants and baggy shirt equals biker stuff. Beyond that equals Hell's Angel. Someone may not be a gangster or Angel in the end, even with the presence of bandana/jacket, but they're dressing in a way to intentionally align themselves with a group known for causing harm.

comhcinc

05-17-2007, 04:52 AM

or they are wearing baggy clothes cause their favorite rapper does

ariastar

05-17-2007, 04:53 AM

Drug abuse doesn't know any ethnic barrier.

It also knows no socioeconomic, gender, racial, familial, etc., barrier.

ariastar

05-17-2007, 04:55 AM

i have found that just putting anything of vaule in the trunk(when i drive a car) and leaving the doors unlocked solves most of these problems.

I am so frikkin' used to not locking doors, even with stuff in the car. Stupid, I know. I had a car broken into twice and stolen - in the same damned month. Same car. (It was a nice black Corolla, a month old.) But with a car that has a top that comes down, I'm utilizing the trunk more because I don't feel like putting the top up to run into the store.

ariastar

05-17-2007, 04:55 AM

I don't think locked doors are gonna keep out anyone determined you have your ass for breakfast.

But it may deter those who are less determined and just want an easy target.

ariastar

05-17-2007, 04:57 AM

are you saying something about my '86 corolla with 221,000 miles on it?

I kid you not, an ex of mine wanted an 86' Corolla. Since he couldn't find one, he got an '86 Civic hatchback. He was spouting off about how the '86 Corolla is the perfect balance between being a cheap car to buy and good gas mileage. He said anyone with those cars is lucky.

phatlip12

05-17-2007, 05:02 AM

Honey. I said, "Around here, if I saw someone dressed as a thug, and by this I mean beyond sagging slightly with a baggy shirt...."

Yeah, if you see someone who goes beyond that, you fear. If you saw a Hell's Angels jacket, unless you know how to talk the talk to not get your ass kicked, you fear. The baggy pants and baggy shirt equals biker stuff. Beyond that equals Hell's Angel. Someone may not be a gangster or Angel in the end, even with the presence of bandana/jacket, but they're dressing in a way to intentionally align themselves with a group known for causing harm.

Your afriad of people that are clearly members of a gang. Thats fine.

However, when talking about "style pfofilling" the issue was people that wear:

"XXL t-shirt down to your knees, baggy pants, underwear showing, and doo rap on your head"

It was mentioned by Frodosingfinger that people dressed like this scare him when in all reality...they are probably dressing like their favorite rapper. This is a style.

I went through a phase in middle school where I dressed like this. I wore the big shirt with the baggy pants (my underwear didn't show and I didn't wear a "doo rap" though). I wasn't a criminal, in fact - I was an honors student.

tokenuser

05-17-2007, 05:05 AM

I kid you not, an ex of mine wanted an 86' Corolla. Since he couldn't find one, he got an '86 Civic hatchback. He was spouting off about how the '86 Corolla is the perfect balance between being a cheap car to buy and good gas mileage. He said anyone with those cars is lucky.My wife had an 82 Corolla (monkey puke yellow) when we started dating technically I guess it was during that pre-dating getting to know each other phases, but anyway). She loved that car, and it gave its life to save hers. She did a U-Turn in front of an oncoming F250. The car was totalled, but once she was cut out of the car, all she had was bruising, and a broken collar bone.

In an unrelated incident, that was also the weekend I broke my pevis in a parachuting accident. We got the "did you meet in hospital" and the "sex must be great" cmments until she got out of the sling. Noone believed the crutches were mine because I did not look "broken" (unless I lifted my shirt to show my back brace).

ariastar

05-17-2007, 05:26 AM

Your afriad of people that are clearly members of a gang. Thats fine.

However, when talking about "style pfofilling" the issue was people that wear:

"XXL t-shirt down to your knees, baggy pants, underwear showing, and doo rap on your head"

It was mentioned by Frodosingfinger that people dressed like this scare him when in all reality...they are probably dressing like their favorite rapper. This is a style.

I went through a phase in middle school where I dressed like this. I wore the big shirt with the baggy pants (my underwear didn't show and I didn't wear a "doo rap" though). I wasn't a criminal, in fact - I was an honors student.

If someone's dressing like their favorite rapper, then they're emulating the fashion of someone who would intimidate people.

Better to err on the side of caution and hold a little more fear than to just presume than everyone dressing as a major thug is just dressing like their favorite rapper.

FWIW, those guys who dress all baggy with hats to the side I've found to be the biggest goofballs, still afraid of their mamas. Or to be thug wanna-bes. But anyone with a bandana, whether or not they're trying to a fashion trend, are going to get extra room from me. I'd rather be wrong about them and alive than to be wrong in the other direction and dead. More women are randomly hurt than men. Keep that in mind too.

ariastar

05-17-2007, 05:28 AM

My wife had an 82 Corolla (monkey puke yellow) when we started dating technically I guess it was during that pre-dating getting to know each other phases, but anyway). She loved that car, and it gave its life to save hers. She did a U-Turn in front of an oncoming F250. The car was totalled, but once she was cut out of the car, all she had was bruising, and a broken collar bone.

In an unrelated incident, that was also the weekend I broke my pevis in a parachuting accident. We got the "did you meet in hospital" and the "sex must be great" cmments until she got out of the sling. Noone believed the crutches were mine because I did not look "broken" (unless I lifted my shirt to show my back brace).

Someone must have wanted your miseries to have company. Ouch!

How did you break your pelvis? Just landing wrong?

comhcinc

05-17-2007, 05:29 AM

If someone's dressing like their favorite rapper, then they're emulating the fashion of someone who would intimidate people.

http://image.listen.com/img/356x237/5/8/6/6/506685_356x237.jpg
you find that intimidating?

tokenuser

05-17-2007, 05:36 AM

Someone must have wanted your miseries to have company. Ouch!

How did you break your pelvis? Just landing wrong?Pretty much ... very first parachute jump. Wind shifting in marginal conditions at the landing zone. It shifted as I was coming in, and I knew it was going to be a hard landing, so I aimed for a nice big patch of muddy ground.

Did everything text book for a roll ... touched with toes, ankles, knees ... and then I ran into problem ... my hip wedged up against a rock the size of a softball and stopped the momentum of the roll causing me to break my pelvis in three places, and fracture my T11/12 verts. Landed me in hospital (in a podunk little town) for a week flat on my back while they ran tests. An inch higher, or a couple of km faster, and I would be a paraplegic. VERY lucky near miss. 6 weeks off work - 6 months in a back brace. Recurring back pain (15 years later) that makes me extremely restless when seated or standing for a long time. As I've mentioned before, the final scene in Point Break when Keanue hits the ground makes me relive the experience, and I still have this slight phobia about jumping off ledges (no fear of heights though - just the rapid deceleration at the end).

Gives me a cool story to tell as well :p

ariastar

05-17-2007, 05:42 AM

http://image.listen.com/img/356x237/5/8/6/6/506685_356x237.jpg
you find that intimidating?

In Watts, yeah. In Sunnyvale, where I work, it'd be cute. Again, depends on other factors. While I wouldn't be scared of those kids specifically, I'd be afraid of others around them.

ariastar

05-17-2007, 05:44 AM

Pretty much ... very first parachute jump. Wind shifting in marginal conditions at the landing zone. It shifted as I was coming in, and I knew it was going to be a hard landing, so I aimed for a nice big patch of muddy ground.

Did everything text book for a roll ... touched with toes, ankles, knees ... and then I ran into problem ... my hip wedged up against a rock the size of a softball and stopped the momentum of the roll causing me to break my pelvis in three places, and fracture my T11/12 verts. Landed me in hospital (in a podunk little town) for a week flat on my back while they ran tests. An inch higher, or a couple of km faster, and I would be a paraplegic. VERY lucky near miss. 6 weeks off work - 6 months in a back brace. Recurring back pain (15 years later) that makes me extremely restless when seated or standing for a long time. As I've mentioned before, the final scene in Point Break when Keanue hits the ground makes me relive the experience, and I still have this slight phobia about jumping off ledges (no fear of heights though - just the rapid deceleration at the end).

Gives me a cool story to tell as well :p

OOOOOOOOOooooooooww. Have you jumped again? I presume so by the mention of "very first jump." Injuries aren't too common though, right? Because I want to jump.

phatlip12

05-17-2007, 05:47 AM

xibalba

05-17-2007, 05:47 AM

Would anyone be afraid of a 6'4 300lbs white guy with long hair and wears black trench coat that rarely smiles and always has a mean look on his face walking towards you?

comhcinc

05-17-2007, 05:50 AM

only if he wasn't for knoxville

phatlip12

05-17-2007, 05:52 AM

Would anyone be afraid of a 6'4 300lbs white guy with long hair and wears black trench coat that rarely smiles and always has a mean look on his face walking towards you?

The mean look and size would scare me. If he didn't look mean, then I wouldn't care. The mean look makes the size a scary thing because I'm not that big, and if he looks at me in a mean way that is a signal that he may try to hurt me (and I can't fight off a person that is that much bigger then I am). If anybody looks at me in a mean way it's going to throw off an alarm "Is this person going to hurt me?". It doesn't matter if they are wearing a tuxedo or a trench coat, a mean look is a mean look...

tokenuser

05-17-2007, 05:55 AM

OOOOOOOOOooooooooww. Have you jumped again? I presume so by the mention of "very first jump." Injuries aren't too common though, right? Because I want to jump.One and only jump.

I gotta say though - the adrenaline rush was out of this world. This was a SOLO jump using one of those old school mushroom (think WWII movie) style chutes, not a modern sports foil.

The first person to run up to me was a paramedic (he was out parachuting with us for the day as well). He started checking me over.

The second person was a doctor at the local hospital working on his ultralight (motorised hang glider) at the airfield. He also turned out to be the local gyno :) ... needless to say I wasn't pregnant, but he know the bone structure in the area well.

The third/forth people were the local radiologists, ALSO out learning to parachute with us ... along with half the nursing staff from the hospital :)

When the ambulance arrived, they couldn't giv eme pain meds because of the adrenaline in my system. I was hurting, but my body was compensating. All I got was an O2 mask.

It took almost an hour (when I was in hospital) before I grabbed the nurse and said I was crashing and going into shock ... then they doesed me up on meds. Again, they were amazed at how long I went without meds just juiced on the rush.

SOoooooooo ... it is a buzz. If you want to try it (and despite my experience, it WAs a freak accident), I would suggest taking a tandem jump.

My next dumb thing to try is hang gliding out at Kitty Hawk (kind of fitting), but I need to lose weight - I am over the max weight restriction for the school out there :( ... I guess its incentive to lose more weight over summer so we can go in the fall.

xibalba

05-17-2007, 05:56 AM

The mean look and size would scare me. If he didn't look mean, then I wouldn't care. The mean look makes the size a scary thing because I'm not that big, and if he looks at me in a mean way that is a signal that he may try to hurt me (and I can't fight off a person that is that much bigger then I am). If anybody looks at me in a mean way it's going to throw off an alarm "Is this person going to hurt me?". It doesn't matter if they are wearing a tuxedo or a trench coat, a mean look is a mean look...

as comhcinc sorta pointed out I was describing me. People tend avoid me or look alittle afraid of me. :D

comhcinc

05-17-2007, 05:59 AM

you want see some that scare me?

http://www.chrisbyrne.com/Infidel/TeamInfidel1.jpg

ariastar

05-17-2007, 06:05 AM

It's a style! Music brings on many style changes (dare I say almost all of the modern style changes?).

What throws off the alarm in the following pictures (referring to the clothing they are wearing).

http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/j/ap/629dad55-6f13-492e-99d0-4fac16cdbb9a.widec.jpg

http://www.thescoopydoop.com/TI%20and%20Me%202.jpg

http://us.ent2.yimg.com/musicfinder.yahoo.com/images/yahoo/koch/yingyangtwins/0502_ying_yang_twins_a.jpg

http://www.popmatters.com/music/interviews/images/dem-franchize-boyz-060428.jpg

You just don't get it. In some areas, there are some styles you don't follow. When Tupac was alive and wearing dark bandanas, yeah, the rate of wearing them went up as a fashion trend in SOME areas, whereas in others, you'd get your ass killed. Even if it's cool to wear a red bandana in the country, it's not cool to wear one in East LA unless you want your ass capped by a crip. What is a fashion trend and what is not depends on the area.

While it's nice and all to believe that all people are good and that no one wearing gang attire is bad, it's also nice to believe in common sense and to not be a murder victim because I thought that those menacing guys were actually nice guys who wanted to check my tire pressure for me.

phatlip12

05-17-2007, 06:05 AM

as comhcinc sorta pointed out I was describing me. People tend avoid me or look alittle afraid of me. :D

Hey, if it wasn't for the mean look I wouldn't be afraid. I shouldn't be talking though, I often form a "mean face" when I drive (so I'm told by my girlfriend). It turns out, I squint my eyes alot when I drive (I don't like driving with sunglasses).

xibalba

05-17-2007, 06:10 AM

Hey, if it wasn't for the mean look I wouldn't be afraid. I shouldn't be talking though, I often form a "mean face" when I drive (so I'm told by my girlfriend). It turns out, I squint my eyes alot when I drive (I don't like driving with sunglasses).

My normal face..I don't think I'm too scary.
http://iad02.umicache.com/p/virb.com/resize_510x1500/Image-56515-405831-haha.png

ariastar

05-17-2007, 06:11 AM

The mean look and size would scare me. If he didn't look mean, then I wouldn't care. The mean look makes the size a scary thing because I'm not that big, and if he looks at me in a mean way that is a signal that he may try to hurt me (and I can't fight off a person that is that much bigger then I am). If anybody looks at me in a mean way it's going to throw off an alarm "Is this person going to hurt me?". It doesn't matter if they are wearing a tuxedo or a trench coat, a mean look is a mean look...

Yeah, the menacing look is part of it. If a couple guys are laughing and smiling, even dressed like thugs, my guard would go down a little.

phatlip12

05-17-2007, 06:12 AM

My normal face..I don't think I'm too scary.
http://iad02.umicache.com/p/virb.com/resize_510x1500/Image-56515-405831-haha.png

I would agree if it wasn't for the devil horns. Damn! LOL

ariastar

05-17-2007, 06:13 AM

One and only jump.

I gotta say though - the adrenaline rush was out of this world. This was a SOLO jump using one of those old school mushroom (think WWII movie) style chutes, not a modern sports foil.

The first person to run up to me was a paramedic (he was out parachuting with us for the day as well). He started checking me over.

The second person was a doctor at the local hospital working on his ultralight (motorised hang glider) at the airfield. He also turned out to be the local gyno :) ... needless to say I wasn't pregnant, but he know the bone structure in the area well.

The third/forth people were the local radiologists, ALSO out learning to parachute with us ... along with half the nursing staff from the hospital :)

When the ambulance arrived, they couldn't giv eme pain meds because of the adrenaline in my system. I was hurting, but my body was compensating. All I got was an O2 mask.

It took almost an hour (when I was in hospital) before I grabbed the nurse and said I was crashing and going into shock ... then they doesed me up on meds. Again, they were amazed at how long I went without meds just juiced on the rush.

SOoooooooo ... it is a buzz. If you want to try it (and despite my experience, it WAs a freak accident), I would suggest taking a tandem jump.

My next dumb thing to try is hang gliding out at Kitty Hawk (kind of fitting), but I need to lose weight - I am over the max weight restriction for the school out there :( ... I guess its incentive to lose more weight over summer so we can go in the fall.

I would do a tandem. Because of Nick's size, he'd have to do a solo, which he is considering doing. (The chutes are good for something like 500 pounds, and a 200-pound instructor and a 6'6" 300-pound Russian are pushing the limit of being safe.) I don't want him to die like you almost did!

xibalba

05-17-2007, 06:15 AM

I would agree if it wasn't for the devil horns. Damn! LOL
I'm also wearing a giant pentagram neckalace in that pic but I erased it.

ariastar

05-17-2007, 06:17 AM

you want see some that scare me?

http://www.chrisbyrne.com/Infidel/TeamInfidel1.jpg

This is scarier.

http://www.movieposter.com/posters/archive/main/24/MPW-12409

ariastar

05-17-2007, 06:18 AM

I'm also wearing a giant pentagram neckalace in that pic but I erased it.

The pentagram is pagan, not Satanic, damn you.

comhcinc

05-17-2007, 06:22 AM

This is scarier.

http://www.movieposter.com/posters/archive/main/24/MPW-12409

no it isn't.

tokenuser

05-17-2007, 06:23 AM

I would do a tandem. Because of Nick's size, he'd have to do a solo, which he is considering doing. (The chutes are good for something like 500 pounds, and a 200-pound instructor and a 6'6" 300-pound Russian are pushing the limit of being safe.) I don't want him to die like you almost did!I didn't almost die - thats just wishful thinking. no walking twards the tunnel, no hearing harps ... just good old fashioned hurt.

Its funny though, it did give me a new appreciation about life, and what is important. I mellowed out a lot after that. I also gained a lot of weight (exercise caused a lot of pain in my lower back), and have never gotten back to being even close to where I was. Oh well - I am trying again now.

I need to dig up the photo my friends took of me in the hospital. I arrived too late for dinner (nasty sandwiches prepared the day before, and served at 4:30 in the afternoon - hospitals are stupid like that sometimes), so I ordered a pizza and a bottle of coke from the local takeaway. There is a pic of me propped up in the hospital bed with the pizza.

xibalba

05-17-2007, 06:23 AM

An inverted pentagram is associated with satanism while a normal isn't. Just like an inverted cross is but a normal isn't.

ariastar

05-17-2007, 06:43 AM

no it isn't.

You're hiding something from us...!

ariastar

05-17-2007, 06:43 AM

I didn't almost die - thats just wishful thinking. no walking twards the tunnel, no hearing harps ... just good old fashioned hurt.

Its funny though, it did give me a new appreciation about life, and what is important. I mellowed out a lot after that. I also gained a lot of weight (exercise caused a lot of pain in my lower back), and have never gotten back to being even close to where I was. Oh well - I am trying again now.

I need to dig up the photo my friends took of me in the hospital. I arrived too late for dinner (nasty sandwiches prepared the day before, and served at 4:30 in the afternoon - hospitals are stupid like that sometimes), so I ordered a pizza and a bottle of coke from the local takeaway. There is a pic of me propped up in the hospital bed with the pizza.

Pics!

Yeah, wishful thinking. That you weren't nearly killed!

ariastar

05-17-2007, 06:44 AM

An inverted pentagram is associated with satanism while a normal isn't. Just like an inverted cross is but a normal isn't.

Then call it an inverted pentagram, not just pentagram. :) Pagans get tired of people thinking that the pentagram is evil.

comhcinc

05-17-2007, 06:46 AM

You're hiding something from us...!

don't ask/don't tell

xibalba

05-17-2007, 06:48 AM

People in High school use to profile me as satanist or witch and after Columbine a person that could shoot the school up (since I always wore a trenchcoat and rarely talked to anyone).

comhcinc

05-20-2007, 06:10 PM

Racism goes on trial again in America's Deep South

The prosecution of three black Louisiana youths reveals the rise of discrimination by stealth

Tom Mangold in Jena, Louisiana
Sunday May 20, 2007
The Observer

In the cool and beflagged small courtroom in Jena, Louisiana, three black schoolboys - Robert Bailey, Theodore Shaw and Mychal Bell - are about to go on trial for a playground fight that could see them jailed for between 30 and 50 years.

Jena, about 220 miles north of New Orleans, is a small town of 3,000 people, 85 per cent of whom are white. Tomorrow it will be the focus for a race trial which could put it on the map alongside the bad old names of the Mississippi Burning Sixties such as Selma or Montgomery, Alabama.
Jena is gaining national notoriety as an example of the new 'stealth' racism, showing how lightly sleep the demons of racial prejudice in America's Deep South, even in the year that a black man, Barak Obama, is a serious candidate for the White House.

It began in Jena's high school last August when Kenneth Purvis asked the headteacher if black students could break with a long-held tradition and join the whites who sit under the tree in the school courtyard during breaks. The boy was told that he and his friends could sit where they liked.

The following morning white students had hung three nooses there. 'Bad taste, silly, but just a prank,' was the response of most of Jena's whites.

'To us those nooses meant the KKK [Ku Klux Klan], they meant, "Niggers, we're going to kill you, we're going to hang you till you die,"' says Caseptla Bailey, a black community leader and mother of one of the accused. The three white perpetrators of what was seen as a race hate crime were given 'in-school' suspensions (sent to another school for a few days before returning).

Jena's major industry is growing and marketing junk pine. Walk down the usually deserted main street and you will not find many black employees. Bailey, 56, is a former air force officer and holder of a business management degree. 'I couldn't even get a job in Jena as a bank teller,' she said. 'Look at the banks and the best white-collar jobs and you'll see only white and red necks in those collars.'

Billy Doughty, the local barber, has never cut black men's hair. 'They just don't come here,' he mumbled. 'Anyway, their hair is different and difficult to cut.'

The majority of blacks live in an area known as Ward 10. Many homes are trailers, or wooden shacks. Rubbish lies in the streets. On 'Snob Hill', where the whites live, the spacious gardens and lawns are trimmed, the gravelled drives boast SUVs and nice new saloons. Only two black families live there. A teacher from Jena High had enough money to buy his way in. But when he arrived local estate agents refused to show him a 'white' property even though several were advertised in the local paper ('they're all under contract,' the agents lied). The teacher eventually went to see one white owner and offered him cash. 'The guy preferred green [dollars] to black, so I got the property,' laughed the teacher, 'but since we moved in three years ago we haven't been invited by a single neighbour.'

On 30 November, someone tried to burn Jena High to the ground. The crime remains unsolved. That same weekend race fights between teenagers broke out downtown, and on 4 December racial tension boiled over once more in the school. A white student, Justin Barker, was attacked, allegedly by six black students.

The expected charges of assault and battery were not laid, and the six were charged with attempted second-degree murder and conspiracy to commit second-degree murder. They now face a lifetime in jail.

Barker spent the evening of the assault at the local Baptist church, where he was seen by friends to be 'his usual smiling self'.

Nine days later, with the case technically sub judice, the District Attorney made the following public statement to the local paper: 'I will not tolerate this type of behaviour. To those who act in this manner I tell you that you will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and with the harshest crimes that the facts justify. When you are convicted I will seek the maximum penalty allowed by law. I will see to it that you never again menace the students at any school in this parish.'

Bail for the impoverished students was set absurdly high, and most have been held in custody. The town's mind seems to be made up.

But now the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People and the American Civil Liberties Union - 'damned outsiders' - have become involved and have begun to recruit, enthuse and empower the local black population. Reporters from the BBC and the New York Times have been drawn to the story. Jena does not like this publicity and shifts uncomfortably in the glare. It is 42 years since President Lyndon Johnson closed the loopholes that allowed southern states to discriminate against blacks. When the accused shuffle into court tomorrow, it's Jena that will be on trial.

· Tom Mangold reports 'Race Hate In Louisiana' for 'This World', BBC2, Thursday, 7pm.LINK (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,2083762,00.html) .

tokenuser

05-20-2007, 06:22 PM

LINK (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,2083762,00.html) .After copying the whole ****ing story into your post, why the hell did you even bother with a link at the end of the post?

comhcinc

05-20-2007, 06:26 PM

two reasons. i always link to stories i quote. to me that is good net manners, also people can follow the link back and see that i did not change anything to help my point.

i really didn't want to post the whole story, but the way it is written i couldn't really see a way around it

nemesiz

05-21-2007, 08:56 AM

...more blacks and Mexicans...

Good to know that someone can pick out those 'Mexicans' from the rest of us of mestizo background. [and yes that was sarcasm]

So I'd like to know , how many of you (I don't post enough to say 'us' IMO) have been directly touched or endured racism. I know growing up in small towns in Eastern New Mexico and West Texas I did. I had many friends of different ethnic backgrounds and I'd say the majority of us did. Now living in San Antonio its very different when the city itself has a heavy Hispanic culture and background. I personally find that I very often do not register race, at least not consciously, although many people say you always do subconsciously. Everyone carries some prejudice I believe, I personally am when it comes to 'stupid' people (I'm trying to get better), but I think that how you act on those prejudice determines whether it is of the level of racism or discrimination. In the end I think the only way to really judge a person is upon their actions. But I can be a bit of an idealist. :(

To answer the question posed by Klitzy, would you have felt bad to tell them to their face in a conversation that you locked your doors because of their race? Thats the best way I can think for you to judge if it was a valid action.

[/going back to lurking]

phatlip12

05-22-2007, 04:52 AM

Good to know that someone can pick out those 'Mexicans' from the rest of us of mestizo background. [and yes that was sarcasm]

So I'd like to know , how many of you (I don't post enough to say 'us' IMO) have been directly touched or endured racism. I know growing up in small towns in Eastern New Mexico and West Texas I did. I had many friends of different ethnic backgrounds and I'd say the majority of us did. Now living in San Antonio its very different when the city itself has a heavy Hispanic culture and background. I personally find that I very often do not register race, at least not consciously, although many people say you always do subconsciously. Everyone carries some prejudice I believe, I personally am when it comes to 'stupid' people (I'm trying to get better), but I think that how you act on those prejudice determines whether it is of the level of racism or discrimination. In the end I think the only way to really judge a person is upon their actions. But I can be a bit of an idealist. :(

To answer the question posed by Klitzy, would you have felt bad to tell them to their face in a conversation that you locked your doors because of their race? Thats the best way I can think for you to judge if it was a valid action.

[/going back to lurking]

I'm part German (my mom is half, my grandfather is full blooded German and can speak German). Apparently, somebody in my family was an SS Officer for the Nazi's during WW 2. My grandfather and great grandparents were already over here though (they were against the Nazi movement). My grandfather told me about how a man (in the US) tried organizing a Nazi group over here. He knew my grandfather was German due to his last name and gave my grandfather candy and told him to tell his dad (my great grandfather to talk to him). Apparently, the guy showed up to his house late one night wearing a swastika with another man. My great grandfather went outside with brass knuckles and beat the crap out of the guys.