Jerry Falwell Dead.....

[klitzy]

Reverend Jerry Falwell died today.....

Interesting story too because my school plays LCA, Lynchburg Christian Academy and we were just up there and I played his grandson and saw Jerry there. The man sat in his huge escalade while the match was going on honking during points. He had a truck horn in the escalade.

[comhcinc]

well i guess it's time for him to answer for what he has done

[njshadow]

Wow Klitz, you were serious. A real shame.

[klitzy]

A real shame.

Dude...Come on man. Not a real shame. You can't really say he was a good man. He was a total bigot. Heres some excerpts from sermons, interviews, etc.

"AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals”

"God has removed it's veil of protection from America in no small part, because of the feminists and the gays"

"“The idea that religion and politics don't mix was invented by the Devil to keep Christians from running their own country”

“If you're not a born-again Christian, you're a failure as a human being”

"I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.'"

[comhcinc]

Jerry Falwell

AKA Jerry Lamon Falwell

Born: 11-Aug-1933
Birthplace: Lynchburg, VA
Died: 15-May-2007
Location of death: Lynchburg, VA [1]
Cause of death: unspecified

Gender: Male
Religion: Baptist
Race or Ethnicity: White
Sexual orientation: Straight
Occupation: Religion
Party Affiliation: Republican

Nationality: United States
Executive summary: Television evangelist

Jerry Falwell was ordained a Baptist minister in 1956. He immediately started his own church, the Thomas Road Baptist Church in Lynchburg, Virginia, where he has been pastor ever since. He began telecasting his weekly sermons in 1968. In 1971, he founded Lynchburg Baptist College, later called Liberty University.

Born and raised in America's segregated South, Falwell preached that racial segregation was the Lord's will, but dropped such overt racism from his perspective when it became unpopular to say such things aloud. Still, from his pulpit Falwell supported South African apartheid, and opposed Nelson Mandela's release from prison.

In 1979, Falwell was a founder of the Moral Majority, a political action umbrella group that fought to enact Bible-based values as American law. The group, like Falwell, was opposed to women's rights, legalized abortion, homosexuals, and pornography (which Falwell defined very broadly), and in favor of thinly-veiled censorship of artwork or organizations that expressed different opinions. The Moral Majority disbanded in 1989.

Falwell sued Larry Flynt's Hustler Magazine in 1984 for libel and intentional infliction of emotional distress, for a satirical page in the magazine wherein a caricature of Falwell remembered his first sexual encounter -- with his mother, in an outhouse. Three courts heard the case, and while the lawsuit worked its way toward the U.S. Supreme Court, Flynt stubbornly had Hustler re-publish the same article. America's highest court ruled in 1988 that Falwell was a public figure and thus fair game for satire. More recently, in the early 2000s Falwell twice sued an internet site for mocking him, alleging trademark violations and libel. Both complaints were thrown out of court.

Inexplicably, Falwell announced the long-awaited "antichrist" will be a Jewish man. He criticized the children's TV show Teletubbies because he believed Tinky Winky to be homosexual. In 1997, when Ellen DeGeneres came out as a gay figure, Falwell called her "Ellen Degenerate" and demanded that sponsors yank their advertising from her eponymous sitcom. He has claimed that Lilith Fair, the female rock-and-roll collective tour, was named after a demon. Falwell also opposes the concept of public schools. "I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be!"

In 1987, when fellow televangelist Jim Bakker was convicted of fraud and imprisoned, Falwell maneuvered behind the scenes to take control of Bakker's Praise The Lord (PTL) TV ministry. While Bakker was in prison, Falwell led PTL into bankruptcy.

Two days after September 11, Falwell fingered those who were responsible. "I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say you helped this happen". Falwell later half-apologized, "if I left that impression with gays or lesbians or anyone else" that they were to blame. But his original words are very unambiguous.

When George W. Bush took office as President in 2001 and established a White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives, Falwell said it was a great idea, so long as Muslim groups are disqualified from receiving the money because, according to Falwell, their faith teaches hate. "Islam should be out the door before they knock", he said. The following year, Falwell noted that "Muhammad was a terrorist. I read enough by both Muslims and non-Muslims, [to decide] that he was a violent man, a man of war". He later half-apologized, saying, "I intended no disrespect to any sincere, law-abiding Muslim."

In 2004, Falwell's Liberty University added a law school, where Falwell said he hopes to produce lawyers who will be "as far to the right as Harvard is to left." The school's mission is to commingle the Bible with the U.S. Constitution, and "re-establish the connection" between church and state.
LINK (http://www.nndb.com/people/558/000022492/)

[njshadow]

Honestly, I really didn't know much about the guy. Ease up. :D

[magunwarrior]

God I hate television evangelists...

[comhcinc]

klitzy is right, just read over what i posted.

[ryudo]

Good riddance

[rabidbadger]

ditto. Good riddance to bad rubbish. Hate death, but if it's gonna happen, couldn'ta happened to a more deserving guy. Hope God sets him straight.

[samureye]

Hope God sets him straight.

The irony in that makes my head want to explode.

[masherscf]

You know, guys like Falwell may thank god when people they disagree with die. But, we don't have too. We're better than him. The man did have a Family and people who cared for him. I'm sad for them.

[klitzy]

You know, guys like Falwell may thank god when people they disagree with die. But, we don't have too. We're better than him. The man did have a Family and people who cared for him. I'm sad for them.

No **** them...You know how many families were hurt by the hateful words of him? A bunch. The guy was a racist, a bigot, a homophobe and deserves to burn in what he feared the most.

[masherscf]

No **** them...You know how many families were hurt by the hateful words of him? A bunch. The guy was a racist, a bigot, a homophobe and deserves to burn in what he feared the most.

I understand that Klitzy. I'm not sorry to see him die and I won't miss him one last bit. However, Any joy I take after a person dies is usually derived from the fact that that person had a good and beneficial life. Therefore, I shall take none in the death of this man. I'll mark his passing and hope that we can move beyond his hateful ways.

[phatlip12]

I understand that Klitzy. I'm not sorry to see him die and I won't miss him one last bit. However, Any joy I take after a person dies is usually derived from the fact that that person had a good and beneficial life. Therefore, I shall take none in the death of this man. I'll mark his passing and hope that we can move beyond his hateful ways.

I'm the same way masher. Many people were happy after Saddam was executed but I can't find joy in somebody dying. I may not miss the person or care too much, but Joy? Nah...

[klitzy]

I'm the same way masher. Many people were happy after Saddam was executed but I can't find joy in somebody dying. I may not miss the person or care too much, but Joy? Nah...

....Pussies.

Kidding.

[rabidbadger]

....Pussies.

Kidding.

I'm not kidding, weasels like him have made the lives of many miserable for centuries...

I wouldna killed him, or anyone, myself, but damn glad one less needlessly influential homophobe in the world. Unfortunately nature abhors a vacuum, and some other idiot will come along and take his place...



The Moral majority is neither...

[masherscf]

Unfortunately nature abhors a vacuum, and some other idiot will come along and take his place...

I was gonna say that another intolerant, homophobic, pandering, overweight, white-ass cracker is just going to come along. But 'idiot' sums it up nicely.

[ariastar]

Boo hoo hoo h-

Okay, I'm over it now.

[tokenuser]

I was gonna say that another intolerant, homophobic, pandering, overweight, white-ass cracker is just going to come along. Hmmm? You called??

Time to found my own church.
I think its time for Televangelism 2.0 (aka - invoking the name of Jesus in pastel colours with rounded corners, and a live ustream feed).

"All you sinful, SINFUL women out there ... come forth to the pulpit, and let me lay my hands upon you. Now, lay YOUR hands upon me and feel my firm resolve - yay verily that is gooooooooood. Let use each excise those demons from our inner souls. You need to work harder, and faster to achieve the release you need to cleanse your spirit."

<to see how this ends, please send $20 via paypal to TokenUser+finds.god@gmail.com>

[phatlip12]

I was gonna say that another intolerant, homophobic, pandering, overweight, white-ass cracker is just going to come along. But 'idiot' sums it up nicely.

Your so racists masher! Why can't it be a:

black ass
chinese ass
arab ass
native american ass
indian ass
eskimo ass
straight ass
gay ass
skinny ass
fat ass

idiot? Come on now Masher, I thought you were better then that! Anybody can be an idiot Masher! It's called equality, perhaps you've heard of it?;)

LOL

[ariastar]

Jerry Falwell

AKA Jerry Lamon Falwell

Born: 11-Aug-1933
Birthplace: Lynchburg, VA
Died: 15-May-2007
Location of death: Lynchburg, VA [1]
Cause of death: unspecified

Gender: Male
Religion: Baptist
Race or Ethnicity: White
Sexual orientation: Straight
Occupation: Religion
Party Affiliation: Republican

Nationality: United States
Executive summary: Television evangelist

Jerry Falwell was ordained a Baptist minister in 1956. He immediately started his own church, the Thomas Road Baptist Church in Lynchburg, Virginia, where he has been pastor ever since. He began telecasting his weekly sermons in 1968. In 1971, he founded Lynchburg Baptist College, later called Liberty University.

Born and raised in America's segregated South, Falwell preached that racial segregation was the Lord's will, but dropped such overt racism from his perspective when it became unpopular to say such things aloud. Still, from his pulpit Falwell supported South African apartheid, and opposed Nelson Mandela's release from prison.

In 1979, Falwell was a founder of the Moral Majority, a political action umbrella group that fought to enact Bible-based values as American law. The group, like Falwell, was opposed to women's rights, legalized abortion, homosexuals, and pornography (which Falwell defined very broadly), and in favor of thinly-veiled censorship of artwork or organizations that expressed different opinions. The Moral Majority disbanded in 1989.

Falwell sued Larry Flynt's Hustler Magazine in 1984 for libel and intentional infliction of emotional distress, for a satirical page in the magazine wherein a caricature of Falwell remembered his first sexual encounter -- with his mother, in an outhouse. Three courts heard the case, and while the lawsuit worked its way toward the U.S. Supreme Court, Flynt stubbornly had Hustler re-publish the same article. America's highest court ruled in 1988 that Falwell was a public figure and thus fair game for satire. More recently, in the early 2000s Falwell twice sued an internet site for mocking him, alleging trademark violations and libel. Both complaints were thrown out of court.

Inexplicably, Falwell announced the long-awaited "antichrist" will be a Jewish man. He criticized the children's TV show Teletubbies because he believed Tinky Winky to be homosexual. In 1997, when Ellen DeGeneres came out as a gay figure, Falwell called her "Ellen Degenerate" and demanded that sponsors yank their advertising from her eponymous sitcom. He has claimed that Lilith Fair, the female rock-and-roll collective tour, was named after a demon. Falwell also opposes the concept of public schools. "I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be!"

In 1987, when fellow televangelist Jim Bakker was convicted of fraud and imprisoned, Falwell maneuvered behind the scenes to take control of Bakker's Praise The Lord (PTL) TV ministry. While Bakker was in prison, Falwell led PTL into bankruptcy.

Two days after September 11, Falwell fingered those who were responsible. "I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say you helped this happen". Falwell later half-apologized, "if I left that impression with gays or lesbians or anyone else" that they were to blame. But his original words are very unambiguous.

When George W. Bush took office as President in 2001 and established a White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives, Falwell said it was a great idea, so long as Muslim groups are disqualified from receiving the money because, according to Falwell, their faith teaches hate. "Islam should be out the door before they knock", he said. The following year, Falwell noted that "Muhammad was a terrorist. I read enough by both Muslims and non-Muslims, [to decide] that he was a violent man, a man of war". He later half-apologized, saying, "I intended no disrespect to any sincere, law-abiding Muslim."

In 2004, Falwell's Liberty University added a law school, where Falwell said he hopes to produce lawyers who will be "as far to the right as Harvard is to left." The school's mission is to commingle the Bible with the U.S. Constitution, and "re-establish the connection" between church and state.
LINK (http://www.nndb.com/people/558/000022492/)

Know what's so great about this? The bible overall preaches love and tolerance, and that men are made in the image of (a perfect) god, and that we are all the children of god, yet Falwell preached hating the image of his perfect god, the hate of his god's children. I'm against abortion, but not for religious reasons. With so many different, and valid, religions in this world, people need to start coming up with some reason other than their holy books tell them so.

[ariastar]

black ass
chinese ass
arab ass
native american ass
indian ass
eskimo ass
straight ass
gay ass
skinny ass
fat ass

What about just a general dumb ass? That's that the type that truly knows no boundaries. :)

[phatlip12]

What about just a general dumb ass? That's that the type that truly knows no boundaries. :)

How could I forget the general dumb ass? Damn.... :(

;)

[ariastar]

How could I forget the general dumb ass? Damn.... :(

;)

Because you are one. Loves!

[tokenuser]

How could I forget the general dumb ass? Damn.... :(

;)You also forgot Smart Ass and Wise Ass, not to mention Latino Ass.

http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/7006/wi0055nc.jpg

[phatlip12]

You also forgot Smart Ass and Wise Ass, not to mention Latino Ass.

http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/7006/wi0055nc.jpg

LOL @ the guy to the left staring at her ass

[ariastar]

You also forgot Smart Ass and Wise Ass, not to mention Latino Ass.

http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/7006/wi0055nc.jpg

Latino ass. Isn't that the same as fat ass? SORRY! You posted a pick of a LatinA girl with a big butt, so I had to say it before someone else did.

BTW, I'm the biggest smart ass there is. There. Someone can attack me back.

[ariastar]

Oh, and there's the lard ass and lazy ass and the skank ass.

[njshadow]

Know what's so great about this? The bible overall preaches love and tolerance, and that men are made in the image of (a perfect) god, and that we are all the children of god, yet Falwell preached hating the image of his perfect god, the hate of his god's children. I'm against abortion, but not for religious reasons. With so many different, and valid, religions in this world, people need to start coming up with some reason other than their holy books tell them so.

Although this guy said some pretty hateful things, don't base a religion or any other person's beliefs on what ONE MAN SAYS. I hadn't heard many things from Jerry Falwell but from what I heard he's said some things that go to extremes. Don't flame Christianity or Baptists because one or even a couple people take things to the extreme and take the Bible out of context. I'm not sure what Jerry Falwell said, but the TRUTH is that God loves the sinner but hates the sin.

[njshadow]

Also, I've heard of and seen that crazy Baptist lady that protested dead soldiers funerals and whatnot and I think that she's pretty crazy. I don't stand for or defend any act such as that. It's wrong and goes against what the Bible teaches. I'm a Baptist but I certainly don't believe those kinds of things, once again they're wrong. Don't get the impression that I think that anyone who is a Baptist is without fault because that is not true. A person can be saved, but they're still a sinner.

[masherscf]

Also, I've heard of and seen that crazy Baptist lady that protested dead soldiers funerals and whatnot and I think that she's pretty crazy.

They believe that God is punishing America for allowing homosexuals to exist. But, I don't feel like I had much to say about it.

[tokenuser]

Oh, and there's the lard ass and lazy ass and the skank ass.Bringing it back on topic - Falwell sucks ass ... far far right wing, ultra neocon, evangelical christian ass.

I feel sorry for anyone's loss of a loved one, regardless of the person (isn't that a very christian attitude to have for an atheist?), but the world is a much better place without his bible thumping rhetoric.

So say we all.

[klitzy]

They believe that God is punishing America for allowing homosexuals to exist. But, I don't feel like I had much to say about it.

Psst...Good for him. If you really believe in the Bible than why shouldn't you protest and try to stop your "fellow brothers" from sinning. Hell, I think they just might be the only true Christians.

[masherscf]

Psst...Good for him. If you really believe in the Bible than why shouldn't you protest and try to stop your "fellow brothers" from sinning. Hell, I think they just might be the only true Christians.

WTF are you talking about?

[ariastar]

Although this guy said some pretty hateful things, don't base a religion or any other person's beliefs on what ONE MAN SAYS. I hadn't heard many things from Jerry Falwell but from what I heard he's said some things that go to extremes. Don't flame Christianity or Baptists because one or even a couple people take things to the extreme and take the Bible out of context. I'm not sure what Jerry Falwell said, but the TRUTH is that God loves the sinner but hates the sin.

I said FALLWELL preached.

Maaaaaaaaannnnny people use their faith as the reason for something. For instance, he's not the only Christian against gays because of the bible. He's not the only Christian against abortion because of the bible either. It's truth that people need to stop using their religions as the reason for something. This goes to Jews, Muslins, everyone.

[njshadow]

Psst...Good for him. If you really believe in the Bible than why shouldn't you protest and try to stop your "fellow brothers" from sinning. Hell, I think they just might be the only true Christians.

Obviously I don't want fellow Christians or anyone for that matter to sin BUT WHAT HE OR THAT CRAZY LADY DID IS NOT A TRUE CHRISTIAN. Like I said before, God loves the sinner, but hates the sin. As how it should be with all Christians. Love the person but hate the act. Bottom line.

[ariastar]

A person can be saved, but they're still a sinner.

Without using the bible, define sin.

[ariastar]

They believe that God is punishing America for allowing homosexuals to exist. But, I don't feel like I had much to say about it.

Yeah, like America should gather up all gays and kill them in a new form of Holocaust? I think we should gather up bigots like her and kill them.

[klitzy]

WTF are you talking about?

I just don't get why people think these guys are any crazier than any Christians.

Personally, the only difference I see in the WBC and "regular" Christians is that "regular" Christians actually act on their beliefs against gays by passing laws against marriage while all the WBC does is protest against them.

What I was trying to say in the post above is that if you really are a Christian than you believe the Bible, etc. Let's face it....Christianity is against homosexuality. Plain and simple. Part of being "Christian" is "Saving" and the WBC is at least letting you know you need to change your ways more clearly than any other Christians I have seen.

[klitzy]

I said FALLWELL preached.

Maaaaaaaaannnnny people use their faith as the reason for something. For instance, he's not the only Christian against gays because of the bible. He's not the only Christian against abortion because of the bible either. It's truth that people need to stop using their religions as the reason for something. This goes to Jews, Muslins, everyone.

....Coming from a scientologist.

Hahahaha.

[ariastar]

Psst...Good for him. If you really believe in the Bible than why shouldn't you protest and try to stop your "fellow brothers" from sinning. Hell, I think they just might be the only true Christians.

WTF are you talking about?

Klitzy still has a lot of growing up to do. He's saying that they're willing to stand for what they believe in, and that that makes them true Christians. In my book, true Christians are those who preach the love Christ taught people to have for each other rather than focusing on hate. Would it not be a better use of hate to be against rapists and to keep child molesters in jail than to be against two men who love each other?

Klitzy, it's my belief that those who repeatedly hurt others, such as child molsters, should be killed. Doesn't mean I'm going to go out and do it, and that I won't doesn't make my belief any less strong.

You know, the bible says to turn the other cheek, not to smack back to keep others from sinning. Hate the sin, not the sinner. That's what I was taught when I was still a Christian. If these people think gays should be killed for being sinners, then they should be killed to. Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone. Sinners calling for the deaths of other sinners is wrong and hypocritical, and Jesus didn't like hypocrisy.

[masherscf]

Yeah, like America should gather up all gays and kill them in a new form of Holocaust? I think we should gather up bigots like her and kill them.

*sigh* With all the fornicators, liberals, gays and bigots gone... this frum would be like... Just Klitzey...

[ariastar]

Bringing it back on topic - Falwell sucks ass ... far far right wing, ultra neocon, evangelical christian ass.

I feel sorry for anyone's loss of a loved one, regardless of the person (isn't that a very christian attitude to have for an atheist?), but the world is a much better place without his bible thumping rhetoric.

So say we all.

So say we all.

[klitzy]

Love the person but hate the act. Bottom line.

No but dude...Do you really love me if you know that I am going to burn in hell for my sins and don't help me? I don't think thats very strong love.

[ariastar]

*sigh* With all the fornicators, liberals, gays and bigots gone... this frum would be like... Just Klitzey...

Klitzy just needs to be educated that the lack of physical action in a way that harms does not make one's beliefs any less strong.

[ariastar]

No but dude...Do you really love me if you know that I am going to burn in hell for my sins and don't help me? I don't think thats very strong love.

Supposedly the only way to not burn in hell is to accept someone who may or may not have existed as your personal savior. No one can force you to believe anything like this. Supposedly even the kindest, most giving, loving person would go to hell if he or she did not ask Jesus to save him or her, whereas a serial killer could get in for asking Jesus to save him or her. Too much emphasis is being put on asking Jesus to save and forgive and not enough emphasis on being a good person to begin with. If someone's only being good to get something, is that person really good? Like a child who behaves during December to get more presents from Santa. It's an act, nothing more.

Supposedly god gave us free will and will not interfere and force us to do anything. Would it be right for us humans to do what god would not, to try to interfere with your free will? If you know something is wrong and choose to do it anyway, that's your choice. The most loving thing would be to make sure you are informed and then let you do as you will.

[ariastar]

No but dude...Do you really love me if you know that I am going to burn in hell for my sins and don't help me? I don't think thats very strong love.

Oh, and heaven is supposed to be a gift. Gifts can't come with conditions. So either we get this gift from god no matter what we do, or we have to earn it and god's a liar because it's not a gift.

[klitzy]

Too much emphasis is being put on asking Jesus to save and forgive and not enough emphasis on being a good person to begin with.


Hahahahaha...Christianity is such bull shit.

[rabidbadger]

"Love the sinner hate the sin"

Lovely bumper sticker but has no basis in biblical histroy, just rhetoric for bigots to pretend they are "PC" while still remaining bigots. I hate the act of murder, and I hate murderers. I hate murderers who murder. But I love lovers. I love that lovers can love. And make love. The act of love is not a sin, but the act of murder is.

If anyone equates the way I love, and make love, with murder, then to hell with you. Party your bigoted asses off in the hellish hate filled fires of purgatory.

[rabidbadger]

Supposedly the only way to not burn in hell is to accept someone who may or may not have existed as your personal savior. No one can force you to believe anything like this. Supposedly even the kindest, most giving, loving person would go to hell if he or she did not ask Jesus to save him or her, whereas a serial killer could get in for asking Jesus to save him or her...The most loving thing would be to make sure you are informed and then let you do as you will.

That was wonderful. Bravo... :cool:

[ariastar]

"Love the sinner hate the sin"

Lovely bumper sticker but has no basis in biblical histroy, just rhetoric for bigots to pretend they are "PC" while still remaining bigots. I hate the act of murder, and I hate murderers. I hate murderers who murder. But I love lovers. I love that lovers can love. And make love. The act of love is not a sin, but the act of murder is.

If anyone equates the way I love, and make love, with murder, then to hell with you. Party your bigoted asses off in the hellish hate filled fires of purgatory.

Hon, I'm not saying I believe that crap, just trying to use the bible to disprove supposed bible rhetoric.

I love lovers. I love that lovers can love. And make love.

That's beautiful.

[rabidbadger]

god hates... (http://godhatesshrimp.com/)

[acidburn]

Without using the bible, define sin.

Not sure what you mean by without using the Bible? Without citing passages? Or define sin in a context outside of the Bible?

But in the simplest of definitions, to sin is to go against God.

[rabidbadger]

Hon, I'm not saying I believe that crap, just trying to use the bible to disprove supposed bible rhetoric.

I love lovers. I love that lovers can love. And make love.

That's beautiful.

That wasn't in reference to anything you said, but just in general to people who use that useless phrase...

[rabidbadger]

Not sure what you mean by without using the Bible? Without citing passages? Or define sin in a context outside of the Bible?

But in the simplest of definitions, to sin is to go against God.

Balderdash. Pre-christians said "An it harm none, do what ye will"
which the christians, rightfully so this time, stole, and turned into the "golden rule"

The Universality of the Golden Rule in the World Religions


Christianity: All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye so to them; for this is the law and the prophets.
Matthew 7:1
Confucianism: Do not do to others what you would not like yourself. Then there will be no resentment against you, either in the family or in the state.
Analects 12:2
Buddhism: Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful.
Udana-Varga 5,1
Hinduism: This is the sum of duty; do naught onto others what you would not have them do unto you.
Mahabharata 5,1517
Islam: No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself.
Sunnah
Judaism: What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellowman. This is the entire Law; all the rest is commentary.
Talmud, Shabbat 3id
Taoism: Regard your neighbor’s gain as your gain, and your neighbor’s loss as your own loss.
Tai Shang Kan Yin P’ien
Zoroastrianism: That nature alone is good which refrains from doing another whatsoever is not good for itself.
Dadisten-I-dinik, 94,5

[acidburn]

Balderdash. Pre-christians said "An it harm none, do what ye will"
which the christians, rightfully so this time, stole, and turned into the "golden rule"

The Universality of the Golden Rule in the World Religions



Agreed, the Golden Rule exists in pretty much all religions and philosophy. Christianity doesn't have a lock on it.

But the Golden Rule and Sin are different things.

[rabidbadger]

Also, I've heard of and seen that crazy Baptist lady that protested dead soldiers funerals...

She is the daughter, I believe, of this lunatic... (http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/index.html) :eek:

[acidburn]

She is the daughter, I believe, of this lunatic... (http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/index.html) :eek:

That website makes me sick..........

[masherscf]

Love the person but hate the act. Bottom line.

My Dad was a man of the cloth. He loved Jesus and put a lot of thought into what Jesus had to say. The word "hate" just didn't enter his vocabulary. Unless it was the hate of injustice and cruelty to other humans.

[rabidbadger]

Agreed, the Golden Rule exists in pretty much all religions and philosophy. Christianity doesn't have a lock on it.

But the Golden Rule and Sin are different things.
Yes they are, the golden rule was created by God, Sin was created by man.

[rabidbadger]

the only hate worthy of man.
Oh and when I say "man" I mean human kind, gender neutral...

[ariastar]

That was wonderful. Bravo... :cool:

Thank you. :)

[ariastar]

Not sure what you mean by without using the Bible? Without citing passages? Or define sin in a context outside of the Bible?

But in the simplest of definitions, to sin is to go against God.

Again, define sin without anything biblical.

[ariastar]

She is the daughter, I believe, of this lunatic... (http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/index.html) :eek:

What the fuck is that site? It's disgusting and a few second literally has me feeling like throwing up.

[ariastar]

My Dad was a man of the cloth. He loved Jesus and put a lot of thought into what Jesus had to say. The word "hate" just didn't enter his vocabulary. Unless it was the hate of injustice and cruelty to other humans.

Sounds like a good minister. I can't stand those who preach hate and how everyone is doing everything wrong.

[rabidbadger]

What the fuck is that site? It's disgusting and a few second literally has me feeling like throwing up.

Fred Phelps is the scumball who originally got famous by picketing the funeral of Mathew Shepard, Now he pickets soilder funerals. He even will picket falwells funereral cause he wasn't anti gay enough...

Even the Hells Angels hate him and set up a barricades of bikers between his idiots and the mourners...

z0Z4Ep7VxWU

[acidburn]

Again, define sin without anything biblical.

I don't think it is possible, because if the Bible didn't exist would sin or sinners exist?

Is that what you're trying to get at? That without the Bible to label something a sin it wouldn't exist as sin and we'd have to call it something else.

[rabidbadger]

sin=not being nice.

[masherscf]

Sounds like a good minister. I can't stand those who preach hate and how everyone is doing everything wrong.

My dad was not a minister. He was a priest. It's quite a bit more rigorous.

A good deal of "preaching" is actually fundraising. Anyone who depends on a following for an income stream is going to discourage interest in other faiths. This is one of the chief reasons that Jesus believed that holy-men should live in poverty.

[alexg]

I've always wondered how these tel-evangelist fundraiser preachers recconciled their activities with the Jesus flippin the money changers tables in the temple story...

[masherscf]

I've always wondered how these tel-evangelist fundraiser preachers recconciled their activities with the Jesus flippin the money changers tables in the temple story...

I'm sure they justify it the same way the Roman Catholic church rationalizes asking their parishioners to donate large fractions of their income to the church.

[comhcinc]

I'm sure they justify it the same way the Roman Catholic church rationalizes asking their parishioners to donate large fractions of their income to the church.
it does? never asked me that

[masherscf]

it does? never asked me that

Perhaps not. I was thinking historically. However, I do have several friends who have been strongly pressured by their church to give money. Personally, I think that the church needs money to operate. But asking for large sums alienates the poor. Ministering to the poor is one of the primary missions pf the church.

[masherscf]

Christianity is against homosexuality. Plain and simple.

Not in my book. Jesus, the source of Christian thought never spoke on the subject. Point of fact, the priest that married my wife and I, she was homosexual. She knows a hell of a lot more about being Christian than you and she didn't seem to find a contradiction with it.

Don't judge an entire faith my the mindless rantings of a few vocal crazies and their misquoting of a single line of text. Most of those people who "believe" in the ten commandments, can't even state them all.

[alexg]

"Homosexuality" as a term and concept didn't really begin until the 17th century. Long after Christian doctrine was established.

[comhcinc]

What I was trying to say in the post above is that if you really are a Christian than you believe the Bible, etc. Let's face it....Christianity is against homosexuality.

let me give you the Catholic view on this. From the Catechism of the Catholic Church

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

now as you can see, while the Church does not approve of homosexuality, it also does not approve of any type of discrimination agianst them.

[masherscf]

now as you can see, while the Church does not approve of homosexuality, it also does not approve of any type of discrimination against them.

It should be noted that by "Church" you refer to specifically the Roman Catholic Church.

Nevertheless, the viewpoint of the Roman Catholic Church is not inconsistent with the historical stance of most protestant denominations that sprang from it.

Some are quicker to change, some are much slower.


In any case, people should be quick to separate the accepted dogma of any given Christian denomination from the actual teachings of Christ. That is, the historical condemnation of homosexuality is not a key tenant of the Christian faith, but something it inherited from the older faith.

By the forth century when the biblical canon was being laid down, many popular Christian aesthetic movements promoted piety through celibacy and the immorality of sex. These aesthetics undoubtedly made their was into the canon as the popular passages in the bible condemning homosexuality much in the same way certain "gospels" that referred to some more human aspects of Jesus certainly did not.

[comhcinc]

It should be noted that by "Church" you refer to specifically the Roman Catholic Church.

There are other? http://www.smileyhut.com/confused/blink.gif

but yeah i made reference to that early in the post.

[masherscf]

There are other? http://www.smileyhut.com/confused/blink.gif

but yeah i made reference to that early in the post.

I was just elucidating your comments.

[comhcinc]

well you can just keep your elucidations to yourself. i've already had my shower for the day

[masherscf]

well you can just keep your elucidations to yourself. i've already had my shower for the day

You're cranky today.

[comhcinc]

i thought i was being cute. maybe i am cranky

[masherscf]

i thought i was being cute. maybe i am cranky

I think Cranky is cute, that's why I like John C. Dvorak.

[comhcinc]

so do i but to kinda put this back on track i think people should check out the Catechism of the Catholic Church (http://www.amazon.com/Catechism-Catholic-Church-U-S/dp/0385479670) you would be surpise at how liberal the Church really is.

[kwok_talk]

Not in my book. Jesus, the source of Christian thought never spoke on the subject. Point of fact, the priest that married my wife and I, she was homosexual. She knows a hell of a lot more about being Christian than you and she didn't seem to find a contradiction with it.


Wait. But Jesus claimed to be God, the same God of the Old Testament and New Testament, in which there were verses that claimed homosexuality to be a sin. It claimed a whole lot of other stuff to be sin too, so homosexuality isn't the "ultimate" sin or whatever, but I think it's hard to try and say the Bible is ok with it.

[comhcinc]

Wait. But Jesus claimed to be God, the same God of the Old Testament and New Testament, in which there were verses that claimed homosexuality to be a sin. It claimed a whole lot of other stuff to be sin too, so homosexuality isn't the "ultimate" sin or whatever, but I think it's hard to try and say the Bible is ok with it.

lets take a look at this shall we? if you was using modern language what word would you use for testament? well according to Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?db=dictionary&q=testament) a testament is :
1. Law. a. a will, esp. one that relates to the disposition of one's personal property.
b. will2 (def. 8).

2. either of the two major portions of the Bible: the Mosaic or old covenant or dispensation, or the Christian or new covenant or dispensation.
3. (initial capital letter) the New Testament, as distinct from the Old Testament.
4. (initial capital letter) a copy of the New Testament.
5. a covenant, esp. between God and humans.

okay well looks like we are talking about #2&5 hmmmm i wounder what a covenat (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?db=dictionary&q=+covenant) is?
1. an agreement, usually formal, between two or more persons to do or not do something specified.
2. Law. an incidental clause in such an agreement.
3. Ecclesiastical. a solemn agreement between the members of a church to act together in harmony with the precepts of the gospel.
4. (initial capital letter) History/Historical. a. National Covenant.
b. Solemn League and Covenant.

5. Bible. a. the conditional promises made to humanity by God, as revealed in Scripture.
b. the agreement between God and the ancient Israelites, in which God promised to protect them if they kept His law and were faithful to Him.

6. Law. a. a formal agreement of legal validity, esp. one under seal.
b. an early English form of action in suits involving sealed contracts.

hmmmmm "conditional promises"..... a contract! okay so we are dealing with contracts. the old contract was made between God and the Jewish people and it is damn stict. hell you can't eat shell fish or pork or bats....well maybe that last one isn't too bad but there are all kinds of hard ass laws, there are whole books of them. in fact there are over 600 laws in the old contract.
luckly for us christans God made a new contract through his son Jesus. now Jesus was a cool dude. he wasn't really concern with what you shouldn't do so much as what you should do. i guess he figured that if you was being nice and loving everyone everything else would fall into place. in fact he didn't really seem to be big on the old contract and he broke the laws often.

so you maybe asking you if you are not suppose to following all the old laws why are they there? good question.

in the new testament most of the major players (in fact most all of them) are Jewish. they are speaking mostly to a Jewish audience who knew all the old stories and laws by heart. so they speak about the old testament alot, i mean there really isn't any way around it.

so back to the question. why is in the bible today? for reference. so you and i will know what everyone is referring to.

[masherscf]

Wait. But Jesus claimed to be God, the same God of the Old Testament and New Testament.

Did Jesus claim to be god? He claimed to be "The Son of God." That was a common titles used by holy men in the early first century.

However, I maintain that this women has a Ph.D. in Christian History and is an ordained priest. That means she attended divinity school and studied the Bible in it's original Greek.

Therefore, who has more credence in the matter. Her or you?

[masherscf]

so do i but to kinda put this back on track i think people should check out the Catechism of the Catholic Church (http://www.amazon.com/Catechism-Catholic-Church-U-S/dp/0385479670) you would be surpise at how liberal the Church really is.

I understand that. The RC church has many progressive stances which I approve of. Their addiction to a bloated centralized structure the costs the faithful billions of dollars worldwide to support is not one of them.

[kwok_talk]

l
luckly for us christans God made a new contract through his son Jesus. now Jesus was a cool dude. he wasn't really concern with what you shouldn't do so much as what you should do. i guess he figured that if you was being nice and loving everyone everything else would fall into place. in fact he didn't really seem to be big on the old contract and he broke the laws often.

.

well...kinda with you, but I think there's some clarifications. Jesus stated that he didn't come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament laws) but rather to fulfill it. So he wasn't just tossing out everything, but rather trying to emphasize that the Israelites at the time (and Gentiles [non-Jewish] subsequently) were more focused on just trying to obey the letter of the law vs. the spirit of the law. HOWEVER, this in no way meant that Jesus meant for us to toss out the laws since we can't be perfect following them. Jesus very much recognized that we mess up, and offers forgiveness and reconciliation for that. But he doesn't just leave us there, but does emphasize trying to better yourself to follow his ideals/laws. He doesn't just leave an ambiguous "just be good" mentality, but does still have an absolute sense of right/wrong. In the Bible, he definitely says things we should not have to follow as well as things we do need to follow.

(cinc, please don't take this personally, I just felt like I needed to make some tangential clarifications. Although, it's nice to engage in a discussion on something more "weighty" than that darned MJ statue. :D)

[kwok_talk]

Did Jesus claim to be god? He claimed to be "The Son of God." That was a common titles used by holy men in the early first century.

However, I maintain that this women has a Ph.D. in Christian History and is an ordained priest. That means she attended divinity school and studied the Bible in it's original Greek.

Therefore, who has more credence in the matter. Her or you?

You're right, I don't have my PhD and such, so correct. But as much, what I've learned if from others who have studied the Greek (and Hebrew too, b/c that's what the Old Testament was written it), been ordained, etc. and my own study.

I do believe that Jesus did claim to be God. In the gospel books (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John), you do read that Jesus kept it on the down low, for quite a while. He referred to himself as the "son of man" for a while, and it was only the demons that called him "son of God" initially. However, once he started his ministry full-blown, he indeed did claim himself to be God, including quoting old testament scriptures that was reserved/descriptive of God himself alluding that it referred to him. That's what got all of the church leaders of the time riled up b/c this random guy was claiming himself to be God

[masherscf]

I do believe that Jesus did claim to be God. In the gospel books (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John), you do read that Jesus kept it on the down low, for quite a while. He referred to himself as the "son of man" for a while, and it was only the demons that called him "son of God" initially. However, once he started his ministry full-blown, he indeed did claim himself to be God, including quoting old testament scriptures that was reserved/descriptive of God himself alluding that it referred to him. That's what got all of the church leaders of the time riled up b/c this random guy was claiming himself to be God

You're completely right a bout the Bible. However, the present biblical canon is probably shaded heavily by men who had an interest in Jesus divinity. At the time the canon was adopted in the fourth century there were several competing Christian traditions. The men who adopted the canon had a stake in promoting their own tradition. Indeed, your sense that Jesus claimed to be divine is based, in part, on that promotion. That is, they canon adopters choose to underline events in Jesus life that would support the divinity claim. Raising Lazarus from the dead, healing the sick, an returning from the grave yourself is a pretty hard proof of divinity. This stories were certainly part of the Christian tradition and the men who chose the canon did not make them up. However, the establishment of the biblical canon is a historical event. If the men were either inspired directly by god or by their own greed is not something that can be known. But, these men did make choices at that time about what ideas would be promoted and which would not. The Bible has been pretty much a closed book since that time.

Personally, I think that questions of Jesus's divinity is a bit of a red herring. What Jesus said was important for us to hear regardless of his god status. It was clear that Jesus represented a new order, new understanding or new covenant between the faithful and God. I'm not sure you can imply the inclusion of any part of the older covenant that Jesus himself did not explicitly include.

[comhcinc]

well...kinda with you, but I think there's some clarifications. Jesus stated that he didn't come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament laws) but rather to fulfill it. So he wasn't just tossing out everything, but rather trying to emphasize that the Israelites at the time (and Gentiles [non-Jewish] subsequently) were more focused on just trying to obey the letter of the law vs. the spirit of the law. HOWEVER, this in no way meant that Jesus meant for us to toss out the laws since we can't be perfect following them. Jesus very much recognized that we mess up, and offers forgiveness and reconciliation for that. But he doesn't just leave us there, but does emphasize trying to better yourself to follow his ideals/laws. He doesn't just leave an ambiguous "just be good" mentality, but does still have an absolute sense of right/wrong. In the Bible, he definitely says things we should not have to follow as well as things we do need to follow.

(cinc, please don't take this personally, I just felt like I needed to make some tangential clarifications. Although, it's nice to engage in a discussion on something more "weighty" than that darned MJ statue. :D)

i agree that Jesus never intended to throw out the old laws. the trick comes in when you realize that gentiles, like myself, never were bound by the old laws.
this debate is covered in the bible. Acts:15, 1-28 i believe. they deciede that if God wasn't worry about that stuff( as shown early in Acts:10,11) they shouldn't be either. it states without a doubt that other than "to avoid pollution from idols, unlawful marriage, the meat of strangled animals, and blood" that gentiles were good.
it's kinda of weird to me that people forget this part.

(and i don't anything personally, not matter what it may seem)




Personally, I think that questions of Jesus's divinity is a bit of a red herring. What Jesus said was important for us to hear regardless of his god status. .
Thomas Jefferson (http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/) agrees

[masherscf]

Thomas Jefferson (http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/) agrees

Dispite some late twentieth century revisionist history. Some of the founding fathers were down right atheists. Is there any other reason why Martha Washington never missed a Sunday in Church and George was always absent...

[rowlodge]

just dont like people preaching it .....

[comhcinc]

i don't believe they were atheists but most of them were Deist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism)

[rabidbadger]

So to a add a little humor, and bring this back to the original topic, (though i like the ways it's gone, got my self a little edumacationism through you guys...)

anyway, longish load but worth it.

oCFDmlFM6os

[masherscf]

i don't believe they were atheists but most of them were Deist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism)

You're correct, of course. I'd forgotten about Deism.

[rabidbadger]

Deism FTW!!! (unless you don't believe in deities, that is) :)

[masherscf]

Deism FTW!!! (unless you don't believe in deities, that is) :)

What about the religion that lets you have unfettered sex with attractive people whenever you want without guilt? I'm still looking for that...

[comhcinc]

What about the religion that lets you have unfettered sex with attractive people whenever you want without guilt? I'm still looking for that...
Hedonism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonism)? .

[rabidbadger]

Found it. Not sharing...

I been saaaaaaavvvvvveeeeddddd!

[rabidbadger]

Hedonism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonism)? .



Sshhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!

[masherscf]

Sshhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!

Hmmm, this has been one of the "Last man standing" threads. Maybe we should declare victory and have it closed.

[comhcinc]

nah i think we should just keep yaping about religion and keep it going

[rabidbadger]

Nooo... You guys are having a good conversation, and others may join in...
Like I said , "I learned something today"

/stan marsh

[rabidbadger]

nah i think we should just keep yaping about religion and keep it going

Yeah, wait til it turns into a flame fest, or just St Peters out... :D

[comhcinc]

that was awful

[rabidbadger]

that was awful

I love to hate a good bad joke....

Seriously though, back on topic, this all diverted because we were segmenting (or not) old and new testaments. How do those who are "Christians" feel about eating shellfish, etc. Seriously.

Basically, wondering how religious people get to pick and choose which rules have which priority. Personally I believe that the science of the time couldn't explain things like trichinosis, and other deadly things, that came from undercooking food, or even the lack of good sexual protection at the time...

The elders just said, Hey, you do this and you die. As for fellow citizens killing a shrimp eater, I'm guessing it was to eradicate bad examples, especially if they were the few who survived such "poisons" of the time...

[masherscf]

Nooo... You guys are having a good conversation, and others may join in...
Like I said , "I learned something today"

/stan marsh

Religion talk online is such flame bait. I'm really not very devout anymore.

My father felt strongly enough to become ordained. I repect him so much, I have to step in.

I know Episcopalians can be kinda wacky, but I've never been preached to about hate, creationism, abortion or even premarital sex. My church was all about building a community and reaching out to the poor. Maybe that was an aberration.

I feel pretty strongly about not letting anti-Christian statements stand without some qualification. I just don't see how right-wing hate can reconcile itself with anything that Jesus taught.

These crack-pots meet in their mega-churches and hold their hand up and thank Jesus from being their savior and convince themselves that makes them better than others.

Part of the Christian tradition is sharing bread and wine. This practice has been diluted as people worry about passing disease through the chalice. However, sharing that cup with the other members of the congregation is act of trust. Thus, the communion is the central bonding experience of the Christian faith.

Jesus wasn't a fool when he suggested the ceremony. It's been steeped in ceremony so long that we forget that Jesus's primary suggested form of worship wasn't sacrificing animals, self-flagellation or even standing around with your arms raise in prayer. The primary form of worship is hanging with your buddies sharing some food and drink. I'm talking real spirits here, not grape juice or water. Some crazy, barely Christian, Christens have even worked the abstinence from alcohol into their dogma. Imagine that.

Communion just doesn't work with mega-large groups.

I'm beginning to rant. Sorry.

[rabidbadger]

...
Jesus wasn't a fool when he suggested the ceremony. It's been steeped in ceremony so long that we forget that Jesus's primary suggested form of worship wasn't sacrificing animals, self-flagellation or even standing around with your arms raise in prayer. The primary form of worship is hanging with your buddies sharing some food and drink. I'm talking real spirits here, not grape juice or water. Some crazy, barely Christian, Christens have even worked the abstinence from alcohol into their dogma. Imagine that...

I'm beginning to rant. Sorry.

Hardly, that was a beautiful paragraph, and a way to rethink the whole thing... and most probably true...

and it goes back to my trichonosis treatise from before, I take the dogma of all religions and try to work back into the past, of what was really meant in the time and place of all the groups spiritual birth, the science, psychology, and medicine of the time, the physical surroundings in which these old societies lived had a profound influence on how their religions sprouted. The lack of reading/writing among the "middle classes" and the use of statues and paintings that the rich and powerful used to indoctrinate the masses who had no reason or means to question...

Religion is history and visa versa...

[kwok_talk]

What about the religion that lets you have unfettered sex with attractive people whenever you want without guilt? I'm still looking for that...

Hottie hedonism?

[lowelotus]

I appreciated you comment on the Jerry Falwell post. So many are against the man and by being so are calling good evil and evil good. Where is the "balance and clear thinking" from those who criticize closed minded individuals? Has anyone heard the suggestion to avoid finality of opinion before thorough investigation? It is call contempt prior to investigation and some of us must practice this in order to stay alive. Lowelotus:cool:

[comhcinc]

first off you having read most of the post on this thread secondly a falwell supporter telling people not to jugde is the most hypocrital thing i have seen this year.

[masherscf]

I appreciated you comment on the Jerry Falwell post. Lowelotus:cool:

Um. Okay. Thanks Buddy. That post was pretty unintelligible. Why don't you comeback after you learn a little English.

A little style point. Keep it simple.

You've made a key error in logic. You've assumed that reasonable people with access to the same facts will come to the same conclusions. Therefore, you've deduced that, as we disagree with you, we must not have all the facts.

Nevertheless, reasonable people with access to the same facts often do disagree. This is what makes America great. The benefit of listening to differing opinions is good way to inform your own ideas.

Anyway, you weren't a complete asshole, which is a plus. Come back soon.

[rabidbadger]

That was just... weird, mr onepost...

I don't know what to say...?

[masherscf]

That was just... weird, mr onepost...

I don't know what to say...?

You think he just did a Google search on posts about Fallwell? Revision3 must be pretty high on the topic...NOT!

[alexg]

The tactic the one poster used is pretty common amongst the "fair and balanced people"--Rovian/Fox News types. They themselves act in a hyperbolic, partisan manner and then when the people they criticize are the least bit that way towards them, they cry foul.