What is the Reason for College?

[comhcinc]

so i'm sure some of you saw this story on the colbert report
To receive a degree from Roger Williams University in Rhode Island, students are being forced to watch "An Inconvenient Truth," the documentary on global warming produced by former Vice President Al Gore.

The science class requirement has prompted one conservative student to declare that "we should stop calling these schools 'bastions of knowledge' since they're really bastions of leftist thought."

The controversy at Roger Williams University (RWU) in Bristol, R.I., began the week before Earth Day, when the professors teaching the laboratory portion of "Core 101: Science, Technology and Society" required their students to watch Gore's Oscar-winning film in class.

The course is one of 12 that students at the university must take in order to graduate.

However, Dana Peloso, an RWU junior and president of the school's chapter of the College Republicans, sent a letter questioning the course requirement to Jeffrey Hughes, assistant dean of marine and natural sciences.

"With the issue of global warming being such a highly politicized topic, with the scientific community unsure if global warming is man-induced or part of the natural cycle of the earth, do you think that it is intellectually honest to only show the alarmist viewpoint?" Peloso asked.

"If the movie is still shown, what plans are there to incorporate the ideas of leading global warming skeptics into class discussion?" he added.

In his email response, Hughes stated that "I only recently saw 'An Inconvenient Truth' and have to think that it's an ideal subject for a Core lab," because "the point of Core is to inform students of scientific principles and help them make decisions on issues with a scientific basis in their everyday lives."

"After an initial and heated debate, scientists no longer question whether the atmosphere is being warmed due to human activities and instead are increasingly impressed with the speed and impact of the process," Hughes wrote. "I repeat: there is no doubt that we're warming the earth and that a continuation of our activities will lead to profound changes.

"Penguins, polar bears and your unborn children have no vote in this. They must live with decisions we make today," the assistant dean said.

"As educators, we're charged to encourage your intellectual growth," Hughes added. "That can (actually, will) be uncomfortable at times, and we're also here to help you deal with that discomfort. It's truly what makes being a human such a joy, privilege and challenge."LINK to Full Story (http://www.cnsnews.com/news/viewstory.asp?Page=/Culture/archive/200705/CUL20070509a.html)

so really i want to hear some thoughts on the subject

[masherscf]

so i'm sure some of you saw this story on the colbert report
LINK to Full Story (http://www.cnsnews.com/news/viewstory.asp?Page=/Culture/archive/200705/CUL20070509a.html)

so really i want to hear some thoughts on the subject

I'm biased of course because I work in academia. As a Math professor, I'm challenged much more often on the relevance of what I teach than the politics. That stupid Jack Black movie didn't help Math professors anywhere.

In any case, I guess Al Gores "Inconvenient Truth" seems a little more inconvenient for some people. I've had to sit through some pretty cockamamie presentations in the past too. But, I have little sympathy.

The instructor's presentation of the video was a golden chance for the student to do his homework and attack the movie on any weaknesses. However, some the lazy student, instead of attacking ideas on their merits, started attacking the messengers instead.

The merits of Al Gores PPT aside, universities have always been shelters for radical thoughts. Academic freedom is a shield which protects many heretical views both liberal and conservative.

In this case, science seems to be allied with less conservative views. However, this hasn't always been true.

[comhcinc]

that was somewhat my take on it. the idea that they couldn't argue the facts only what they "believe", as if that should matter in a science class.
if i believe that 2+2=5 should i be given a passing grade?

[masherscf]

that was somewhat my take on it. the idea that they couldn't argue the facts only what they "believe", as if that should matter in a science class.
if i believe that 2+2=5 should i be given a passing grade?

Well, that comparison is a little disingenuous. The student wasn't arguing that the color red was actually green. This issue is a little more complex.

However, science isn't about belief. Unless you believe your prof is full of shit.

Actually, if I had a student who actually thought to argue that 2+2=5, I might just give him an A.

notice. Let a=1

suppose a=b

multiply both sides by a => a^2=ab

subtract b^2 => a^2-b^2 = ab-b^2

factor both sides => (a+b)(a-b)=(a-b)b

Divide both sides by (a-b) => a+b=b

Add 4 to both sides => 4+a+b=4+b

Subtract b from both sides => 4+a=4

Recall a=1 => 4+1=4 => 5=4 => 5=2+2 QED

[comhcinc]

Well, that comparison is a little disingenuous. The student wasn't arguing that the color red was actually green. This issue is a little more complex.

i'll admit it is overly simplified but i think the comparison is vaild. to me it comes down to belief vs. fact

oh that was cute.

[klitzy]

Recall a=1 => 4+1=4 => 5=4 => 5=2+2 QED

I can tell you right now 2 + 2 != 5....

[tokenuser]

I can tell you right now 2 + 2 != 5....Can you prove it? Mashers algebraic rationale looked prett good ... and who is going to argue with a maths prof?

Masher - can you do my taxes next year? I want the 25% bonus on the deductions based around "NuMath".

[masherscf]

Can you prove it? Mashers algebraic rationale looked prett good ... and who is going to argue with a maths prof?

Masher - can you do my taxes next year? I want the 25% bonus on the deductions based around "NuMath".

No, I have to say that Klitzy is right. My challenge to him is to find the flaw in my logic. A little hint, I broke a cardinal rule of whole number arithmetic, I just went out of my way to hide it.

Even if I have a Ph.D. in math and present an argument that is clearly bogus but looks pretty damn valid. Are you gonna cast it away out of belief or are you going to look at it point my point and take it apart?

[rabidbadger]

friggen Nerds.

Oh, and we do all know Colbert is satire, right?

[comhcinc]

is he? duh but i had already heard the story and just thought it was interesting

[rabidbadger]

Yeah, having read the linked story, I'm thinking the student is just being a *****. The whole point of higher education is to investigate, question, and find answers. This dork is trying to politicize verifiable facts, and just doesn't like the messenger. If the flick was by Prof Joe Schmoe from Idaho U. he woulda just sat there, watched, and agreed or disagreed and done his own research to prove otherwise, but no, he just had to rant because it was former demorcratic Vice President Al Gore.

[comhcinc]

worst than that the guy b*tchin isn't even in the class

[ariastar]

That stupid Jack Black movie didn't help Math professors anywhere.


Which one? I've only seen one Jack Black movie.

[tokenuser]

Which one? I've only seen one Jack Black movie.... and they were all stupid.

Except the one with the big monkey.

(I bet Kyle Gass gets that all the time)

[ariastar]

Let a=1

suppose a=b

multiply both sides by a => a^2=ab

subtract b^2 => a^2-b^2 = ab-b^2

factor both sides => (a+b)(a-b)=(a-b)b

Divide both sides by (a-b) => a+b=b

Add 4 to both sides => 4+a+b=4+b

Subtract b from both sides => 4+a=4

Recall a=1 => 4+1=4 => 5=4 => 5=2+2 QED

Doesn't quite work.

[ariastar]

Oh, and the problem with requiring students to watch this movie isn't the messenger as much as it is seeming like the school is pushing Gore's political agenda. Yeah, the facts may be right, but that doesn't negate that he wasn't exactly making a big to-do until he was out of office and needed a way to keep his face in the media. As VP, he could have tried pushing for more environmental protection laws. But no, he had to wait until he pretty much lost power and credibility. As much fun as it is to laugh over Lewinsky Gate, it did damage Gore's credibility by association with Clinton. Clinton became an icon thanks to Bush's immeasurably worse offenses, but Gore didn't have anything funny, like splooge on a blue dress or cigars, for the public to laugh at. He got the short end of the stick. But if he'd started his screaming environmentalism while still in office, then this would seem more genuine.,

[comhcinc]

actually Gore has been working on environmental issues since his days in the senate. and what exactly is his political agenda? protecting the planet?

[tokenuser]

actually Gore has been working on environmental issues since his days in the senate. and what exactly is his political agenda? protecting the planet?Exactly. VPs aren't generally particularly vocal or "politically active". They are definately behinds the scenes people, and are there to support the president, not make a name for themselves.

[phatlip12]

I go to a community college, but live a few miles away from the University of Delaware. My freshman comp professor attended UD and told us about a professor that teaches there that is known for racists teachings. Apparently, the school tried getting rid of her but can't due to her tenure. I found a page on Wikipedia on her in case anyone is interested in reading a bit more into her.

Linda S. Gottfredson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Gottfredson)

I can see getting upset over a professors teachings such as the one I discussed above but not over the actions of the professor discussed in this thread. The professor stated:

"the point of Core is to inform students of scientific principles and help them make decisions on issues with a scientific basis in their everyday lives."

It looks like the professor wants the students to possibly form some objections towards the theories presented in the film. To my knowledge, there seems to be a substantial amount of evidence pointing towards human activity contributing to global warming. If the student watched the video and did a little research maybe he could find some information that goes against the professors claims. Its possible the student may find some information that the professor proves false thus causing the student to actually learn a damn thing rather then *****ing?

[ariastar]

actually Gore has been working on environmental issues since his days in the senate. and what exactly is his political agenda? protecting the planet?

He didn't make this huge fuss until much more recently. And it's hard not to presume an political ulterior motive from someone who would otherwise have fallen from the spotlight, whether or not it exists.

[ariastar]

Exactly. VPs aren't generally particularly vocal or "politically active". They are definately behinds the scenes people, and are there to support the president, not make a name for themselves.

If he was as impassioned then, he would not have waited until he was out of office. That he did so makes his motives suspect.

[comhcinc]

yeah in fact he has been kicking up a fuss for a very long time. it just that the media is picking up on it now. and again what could his political ulterior motive be?

[ariastar]

I go to a community college, but live a few miles away from the University of Delaware. My freshman comp professor attended UD and told us about a professor that teaches there that is known for racists teachings. Apparently, the school tried getting rid of her but can't due to her tenure. I found a page on Wikipedia on her in case anyone is interested in reading a bit more into her.

Linda S. Gottfredson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Gottfredson)

I can see getting upset over a professors teachings such as the one I discussed above but not over the actions of the professor discussed in this thread. The professor stated:

"the point of Core is to inform students of scientific principles and help them make decisions on issues with a scientific basis in their everyday lives."

It looks like the professor wants the students to possibly form some objections towards the theories presented in the film. To my knowledge, there seems to be a substantial amount of evidence pointing towards human activity contributing to global warming. If the student watched the video and did a little research maybe he could find some information that goes against the professors claims. Its possible the student may find some information that the professor proves false thus causing the student to actually learn a damn thing rather then *****ing?

I HATE tenure. There was a teacher at my highschool just as worthless that couldn't be fired because of tenure.

Any time a school shows a film by a famous person, the teacher/professor must be prepared for personal favor or bias by each student. Rare would it be to find someone who dislikes someone but will openly agree with a point of view by that person, or vice versa. Rare would it be to find the person who really likes someone but will call that person's viewpoint shit. A better choice would be been to use a documentary by someone unknown. Then personal bias/favor wouldn't be an issue.

[sail191912]

No, I have to say that Klitzy is right. My challenge to him is to find the flaw in my logic. A little hint, I broke a cardinal rule of whole number arithmetic, I just went out of my way to hide it.

Even if I have a Ph.D. in math and present an argument that is clearly bogus but looks pretty damn valid. Are you gonna cast it away out of belief or are you going to look at it point my point and take it apart?


Divide both sides by (a-b) => a+b=b => infinity = infinity ?

[rabidbadger]

and then divide by negative zero....

[mark71]

speaking of polititions...here is happy valentines from the chenys...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Tz6Wg8iYPs]ergfsgw

[masherscf]

Divide both sides by (a-b) => a+b=b => infinity = infinity ?

Actually, dividing by zero does not equal infinity in real number arithmetic, since infinity is not a real number.

1/0 is simply undefined.

I violated the multiplicative zero property.

That is A=B if and only if AC=BC doesn't hold if C=0.

[sail191912]

Oh yeah. :o

I kept thinking of limit approaches zero. Looks like I need to go back to college. Kindergarten even. I can't add or subtract without using a calculator. :D

[masherscf]

Oh yeah. :o

I kept thinking of limit approaches zero. Looks like I need to go back to college. Kindergarten even. I can't add or subtract without using a calculator. :D

You mean The limit of 1/x as x approached zero is infinity.

Yes, however the limit doesn't exist in basic Algebra. This important addition to mathematics is made much later.

The trouble is that the original model of integer division does not include a limiting process. Therefore, you cannot just use one when it is convenient.

In any case, the limit states above isn't even a conventional limit. It is known as an infinite limit.

Observe.

Conventional Limit: Suppose f is a function defined on an open interval containing a real value c and L is some real value. We say The limit as x approaches c if f(x) is L when for every ε>0 there exists a δ>0 so that if 0<|x-c|<δ then |f(x)-c|<ε.

Notice, that this definition requires the limit L to actually be real number. Therefore, to include infinity in our limiting process we need an additional definition.

Infinite Limit: Suppose f is a function defined on an open interval containing a real value c. We say The limit as x approaches c of f(x) is positive infinity when for every ε>0 there exists a M>0 so that if 0<|x-c|<δ then f(x)>M.

A similar definition of negative infinity could follow mutatis mutanti.

Therefore, the result that 1/0 is infinity requires a bit of mathematical prestidigitation that does not apply in the category of elementary algebraic operations.