Cat out of the Bag explaination

[puddlefish]

Hey guys, just watched your interview over at Viral, and thought you might be interested to know that "letting the cat out of the bag" is an old sea faring term. The cat in question being the cat of nine tails, which was used for discipline aboard ships. It was hung from the ceiling of the hold in a bag, so letting it out of the bag was always bad news for someone.

As a side note, that's also where the term "not enough room to swing a cat" comes from.

Anyhoo, thought you might be interested, I was!!

[trsjeff]

Hey guys, just watched your interview over at Viral, and thought you might be interested to know that "letting the cat out of the bag" is an old sea faring term. The cat in question being the cat of nine tails, which was used for discipline aboard ships. It was hung from the ceiling of the hold in a bag, so letting it out of the bag was always bad news for someone.

As a side note, that's also where the term "not enough room to swing a cat" comes from.

Anyhoo, thought you might be interested, I was!!

Thanks puddlefish! That is awesome. I love learning stuff like that. I really enjoy the NPR show Says You! because they go into a lot of those explanations. Very cool stuff.

-Jeff

[scoobydiesel]

fricken poor kittys man...Swingin em around and stuff 0_0

[tokenuser]

BS. Letting the cat out of the bag refers to letting out a secret. Its origin is in old english farmers markets where a cat (common, feral animal) would be substituted for a pig (valued for food, harder to breed) in the hesian sack the pig should have been in. Letting the cat out revealed the secret, so that you wouldn't buy a pig in a poke (bag) ... ie dont buy anything unless you see it first (letting the cat out of the bag).

[johnnyswift]

No no - you both have it wrong...

To, "let the cat out of the bag" originated back in the late 60's. Hippies used to believe that feline feces and vomit kept marijuana fresher for longer periods of time and enhanced the high, twofold. So the "weed farmers" would stuff a bag full of dope, and then throw 2 or 3 cats in the bag as well. Periodically the farmers would feed the cats tuna laced with bleach so they would crap on the weed (and vomit); thus enriching the dope with special cat chemicals.

The saying started when the hippies tried to smuggle the "cat dope" around their towns. The cops would pull them over, pick up a bag - and a malnourished cat (or 2) would jump out, smelling of marijuana, vomit and poo.

Interesting enough, the French word for cat (chat) originated from the same process.

[satori]

You guys need to check your facts. Letting the cat out of the bag refers to the original study of Quantum Mechanics. In this first experiment Schrödinger used a bag instead of a box. Sadly when the poisonous gas tube was shattered Schrödinger lost his first lab assistant. After 3 tries with bags and 4 cats later Schrödinger stuck with his final box theory.... and that's one to grow on.

[puddlefish]

BS. Letting the cat out of the bag refers to letting out a secret. Its origin is in old english farmers markets where a cat (common, feral animal) would be substituted for a pig (valued for food, harder to breed) in the hesian sack the pig should have been in. Letting the cat out revealed the secret, so that you wouldn't buy a pig in a poke (bag) ... ie dont buy anything unless you see it first (letting the cat out of the bag).

Nuts, I like the cat o' nine tails explanation. I heard it while on a tour of Captain Cook's Endeavour (a replica obviously) and took it for the truth. I'm gullible that way....

Seems that these are both commonly suggested origins of the phrase, but the pig one is more likely:

There are two commonly heard suggested origins of this phrase. One relates to the supposed fraud of substituting a cat for a pig at markets. If you let the cat out of the bag you disclosed the trick - and avoided buying a pig in a poke (bag). The other is that the 'cat' referred to is the cat o' nine tails, which was supposedly brought out of a bag in order to flog sailors.

The first of these at least has the benefit of a measure of plausibility on its side. The cat o' nine tails story is more doubtful. It is reported that the lashes were stored in bags, but the suggested nautical usage doesn't really match the 'disclose a secret' meaning of the phrase. There isn't enough evidence to prove either theory and the origin remains uncertain.

The first known use of the phrase in print is from a 1760 edition of The London Magazine:

"We could have wished that the author... had not let the cat out of the bag."

There are other early citations in The Times in 1789. The first of these seems to suggest an allusion to the cat o' nine tails origin:

"Sir John Aubrey's passion has got the better of his prudence - he has fairly let the cat out of the bag to scratch the party."

This piece is however followed by another a few weeks later which recounts an attempted swindle involving the sale of government bonds. The exposure of the fraud was said to have "let the cat out of the bag". It seems that people weren't any more sure of the derivation in the 1790s than we are now

[puddlefish]

Interesting enough, the French word for cat (chat) originated from the same process.

Nice one! :)

[cwluc]

Either way I just finished the Viral segment myself (I watch a lot of vidcast, sorry I am behind) and was flipping out, thank you for someone else who was just as curious. Also I love how a random tangent that goes unresolved has driven all of us to get online and rant about it.