Pick of the Week Podcast Episode #86: The Flash: The Fastest Man Alive #13

[conorkilpatrick]

It's our 86th episode and we're back from HeroesCon!

We discuss Conor's Pick of the Week for June 22, 2007:

http://www.ifanboy.com/images/POW_062007-thumb.jpg
The Flash: The Fastest Man Alive #13
by Marc Guggenheim & Tony Daniel

Running Time: 00:56:51

Click here for download info and show notes! (http://www.ifanboy.com/archive/weblog/hey_wheres_the.html)

Click here to discuss the show! (http://www.ifanboy.com/archive/pickoftheweek/06202007_the_fl.html)

[luthor]

Guys...really...Batman is not the DCUs anyone...Batman is friggin' Batman.

[six-gun]

Seven books, that's awesome! The more books you talk about the more relistentoable the show is!

[luthor]

That up there came across as being kind of dicky. I apologize. Good show.

[conorkilpatrick]

That up there came across as being kind of dicky. I apologize. Good show.

Don't worry about it - it didn't.

[ksteets]

Has anyone heard what Guggenheim is doing next? it's a shame how great he did on The Flash and not have him lined up for anything.

[conorkilpatrick]

THE PULSE: What's coming up in your other comic work?

GUGGENHEIM: I just turned in the last Blade script. Then I went to work on another Blade script. Huh? How's that possible? I wish I could talk about it and explain, but suffice it to say, I'm not completely finished with the character yet. In addition to that, I'm also writing my ongoing creator-owned series for Oni Press, Resurrection, and a couple of other projects that, I'm sad to say, haven't been announced yet, so I'm not at liberty to talk about them. Which sucks, 'cause I'm really excited and I love to talk about what I'm working on.

The rest of that interview is here (http://www.comicon.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=36;t=006381).

[labor_days]

Ehh, Blade is one the most uninteresting characters in the MU. Think I'll pass on Guggenheim's Blade.

(BTW, Flash #13 was f**king awesome. Why did I drop this book again?)

[piscespaul]

Ok so this is for huge geek points


The title at the end of JLA 10 is Interlac for


"The Villain Is The Hero In His Own Story"

god i'm shamed

[alexg]

Great episode guys.

Thanks for giving voice to the mild frustration I think a lot of us feel over JLA.

[ronxo]

Ok so this is for huge geek points


The title at the end of JLA 10 is Interlac for


"The Villain Is The Hero In His Own Story"

god i'm shamed

wow
I'm impressed

[jimski]

Ron, I think you and I will be very happy together. By the way, you're the breadwinner.

[fred]

nice show guys

[kahunablair]

Ok so this is for huge geek points
The title at the end of JLA 10 is Interlac for
"The Villain Is The Hero In His Own Story"
god i'm shamed

Wow, I'm not even a fan of Legion, but I'm liking the looks of this...
http://img40.picoodle.com/img/img40/8/6/25/f_hjkhkjm_863ec24.png (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?srv=img40&img=/8/6/25/f_hjkhkjm_863ec24.png)
Maybe I'll start signing my name this way.

[fred]

english to interlac key

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1a/Interlac_Landscape.JPG/800px-Interlac_Landscape.JPG

[labor_days]

Goddamn, I love the Legion.

[fred]

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u116/fredhosley/interlacbs.gif

[piscespaul]

LMAO!!! and I impressed Mr. Richards to boot...

thanks for making me smile on an otherwise crappy week guys..

[senoj1]

I'm like seeing good weeks for DC! Blade is so boring. Awesome show super-quality show.

[ronxo]

I don't know whats geekier - writing messages in Interlac or the TNG LCARS theme I downloaded to put onto my phone.


oh yeah, I went there

[fred]

I actually downloaded 2 interlac fonts today so writing in it is easy.

[cancelhoo]

sorry...mispost

[burntlight]

Wow, I am so surprised that you guys liked Endangered Species. Personally, I thought it was a real let down. How many more times are they going to show the X-men and students at a funeral to pull at our heart strings. I think that they have tied up the house of m and other mutant deaths so much better in other titles, for instance Kitty Pride's speech at the vigil in the end of New X-Men #32. Plus, I was unsure which characters were obscure. I could maybe understand not recognizing X-23 in this, cause she definitely didn't look like herself.

Most of all, I felt that the character interactions were heavy-handed. Of course Rahne is going to have a conversation about her religious beliefs (when does she not) but the whole thing seemed pointless. Cessily has an emotional breakdown which was supposed to be very dramatic, but when she said "not when we're an endangered species," I had to groan. Isn't there some comic book rule not to use the title of the book in the actual dialog? And, this may be nit-picking, but I thought that Wolverine's dialog at the end was a little messy. When Wolverine is deep (and written right) he has the ability to do it with very few words.

I wanted to like this, I really did! I just hope the best for the next issues in the series.

[conorkilpatrick]

Plus, I was unsure which characters were obscure. I could maybe understand not recognizing X-23 in this, cause she definitely didn't look like herself.

When you don't really read X-Men comics other than X-Factor and Astonishing, quite a few of them.

[fanboys-strike-back]

Hey guys,

Am I the only one who is upset about the death of Bart Allen. Superboy and Bart came on the scene at the same time and they were both pretty empty 90's characters but they have evolved so much since then. Superboy became an extremely interesting character in John's Teen Titans and then they killed him in Infinite Crisis in the place of Dick Grayson. One year later Bart Allen is dead after a great kid flash story and then replacing Wally as the Flash. I think it's just a waste of these brilliant characters. In my opinion DC's biggest advantage over Marvel has always been their sense of legacy and I really don't agree with what they have done. Bart and Conner were was too important to the future of the DCU to die. This is just one man's opinion though. What do you guys think?


P.S. I would love to know what you think in particular Conner, being the resident DC guy.

[six-gun]

More than anything I'm disappointed that I won't be getting any more Guggenheim written Flash, but just because Bart is dead doesn't mean he won't come back!

[fanboys-strike-back]

I know but this was a pretty final death, I mean this wasn't Bart going into the speed force. He was beat to death! I actually had a really hard time looking at those last panels. Normally I'm all in for a final death but not Bart. I understand that he will be back eventually, I just really don't think he should be dead right now, he has way too much potential as a character and they were just beginning to unlock it. I think the same thing happened with Conner. It's just disappointing.

[racemccloud]

I'm just annoyed because it pretty much destroys any chance there may have been of a "Young Justice" reunion limited series. Man, that was a great book. Far better than "Teen Titans". Wouldn't be much of a reunion without two of the three founding members, though.

[big-doze]

I'm just annoyed because it pretty much destroys any chance there may have been of a "Young Justice" reunion limited series. Man, that was a great book. Far better than "Teen Titans". Wouldn't be much of a reunion without two of the three founding members, though.

You, my dear McCloud, speak great truths.

I've been a huge Bart Allen fan for years, first getting turned onto him in Young Justice. Amidst all of the angst, darkness and "mature readers" characters being churned out, here was a character who was innocent, noble and just plain thrilled to be a superhero. As his character evolved in YJ and in his own book, we saw that Impulse was far deeper than anyone initially suspected, coming to terms with his own mortality, his responsibility to the Flash legacy and his ridiculously short attention span. Best of all, Bart was a simple character. Not in a depthless way, mind you, nor in a stupid way. He was not sinister, or burdened, or morose, or coniving... he was just Bart, happy, energetic, infuriating and always eager to help others. This was the character that I came to love.

Then YJ ended and Teen Titans began. Johns pushed Bart through a bit of accelerated maturity, becoming Kid Flash and learning a buncha junk, but at the end of the day it was all true to the character. Bart was growing up, and I suppose I was still clinging to his childhood. The evolution felt organic, it came from an authentic place, and Bart got to drive the Batmobile. All was well.

Then came a crisis, in more ways then one. Bart heroicly joined the other speedsters in fighting Superboy Prime, dragging him into the Speed Force. When Bart emerged, however, we were shocked to find that he had aged four years, trapped in the Force keeping SBP at bay. Now we had a 20 year old Bart, where the character had only been allowed to really mature to 16.

This, in itself, was nto really a problem for me. Of course, I'd miss Bart's teenage years, but from the beginning he'd been a toddler in a teen's body. The move to teen in an adult's body seemed almost fitting for Bart. Then came The Fasted Man Alive.

The fundamental problem with the relaunch was that it was written as a Flash book, not a Bart Allen book. Everything that made Bart unique as a character (his humor, his joy at being a hero, his enthusiasm, his dedication to helping others, his impulsive nature) was stripped away as he spent 6 issues whining about how little he wanted to be the Flash. Bart has always been preparing to wear the red suit, and with no reasoning given he suddenly is ready to give it all up. I'm sure the story would have been fine with a different character, but... it wasn't Bart.

Guggenheim came next, and within two issues we had Bart back. He was a grown up, sure, but he still reacted impulsively, lept before he looked, remained oblivious to how maddening he was to be around and generally had fun being a super hero. His first arc seemed grand and epic, and Marc wouldn't shut up in interviews, professing his love for the character and the great things to come.

Lies, I suppose.

And yet... I just can't be mad. That last issue was a masterpiece, perfectly portraying the kind of man that we all knew Bart could one day become. He faced down his foes with his characteristic courage, his depthless concern for others and his self sacrificing nature. He was clever, quick and skilled in ways that made perfect sense, and in the end, he fell in a way that also made sense. The final pages, showing those whose lives he's touched, truly accentuated the impact of a character who many wrote off as B-list.

Maybe he'll come back, maybe he's gone for good, and maybe he'll be reincarnated in a clone, cyborg, alien teenage body with memory implants and laser hair. Who knows? All I know is that I got years of entertainment out of the little guy with the big hair, and I've still got hundreds of issues to re-read every time modern comics start to take themselves too seriously.

RIP Bart Allen
a.k.a. Impulse
a.k.a. Kid Flash
a.k.a. The Flash

"Oh, somewhere on New Earth our yellow sun is shining bright;
The League is fighting Grundy, or brainwashing Dr. Light,
And Crisises are building, and Nightwing fans still shout;
But there is no joy in Keystone—mighty Impulse has struck out."

[esophagus]

I'm just annoyed because it pretty much destroys any chance there may have been of a "Young Justice" reunion limited series. Man, that was a great book. Far better than "Teen Titans". Wouldn't be much of a reunion without two of the three founding members, though.Although these two founding members have died, there's quite the possibility of it coming back. Although it just wouldn't be the same, the death of two crucial members is definitely a potentially good in to get the team back together.

As for the deaths, I really hated them. Deaths are undone all the time in comics, but these two just can't be. Conner's death had such a massive impact on the DCU it can't and won't be undone (not to say there won't be another Superboy). And Bart was killed so brutally. As stated earlier, bringing him back from the speed force would be one thing, but this was a very mortal death. In fact, the only thing that could upset me more than the deaths of these characters, would be seeing them brought back to life.

Edit: But I do have to agree with Big Doze, at least the issue was done so magnificently. Same goes with Conner's death in Infinite Crisis.

[labor_days]

Bart had the best death of any the Flashes. I think Bart has to stay in the ground though. I loved Young Justce too but his death was so damn heroic...damnit, he's coming back isn't he?

Why do I keep falling for this crap.

[darron]

GREAT post, Doze.

Personally, while I really did like the character of Bart (also stemming back from YJ), I hope they don't bring him back. He had, arguably, the the heroic/honorable death of any character (at least with a solo book) in a LONG time. Why not let him be remembered for his heroics, not for being brought back a year or two later and having nothing to do, y'know?

[mikegraham6]

Another great episode guys, i particularly loved the Flash discussion

[horatio616]

Hey guys,

Am I the only one who is upset about the death of Bart Allen. Superboy and Bart came on the scene at the same time and they were both pretty empty 90's characters but they have evolved so much since then. Superboy became an extremely interesting character in John's Teen Titans and then they killed him in Infinite Crisis in the place of Dick Grayson. One year later Bart Allen is dead after a great kid flash story and then replacing Wally as the Flash. I think it's just a waste of these brilliant characters. In my opinion DC's biggest advantage over Marvel has always been their sense of legacy and I really don't agree with what they have done. Bart and Conner were was too important to the future of the DCU to die. This is just one man's opinion though. What do you guys think?


P.S. I would love to know what you think in particular Conner, being the resident DC guy.

I can't wait to read this. I hadn't read the Flash for quite awhile and this relaunch was a big disappointment. To me, Wally will always and should always be the Flash, but I don't think his return should have come at the expense of Bart.

I actually think that DC's sense of legacy is their biggest disadvantage when compared to Marvel for three reasons: 1) it's masterbatory, meaning that it's used to tweak the nipples of continuity at the expense of innovation; 2) it's overused; and 3) it leads to hero slaughter, as writers know they can just plug a new guy into the costume, as with Superboy and Flash.

[kahunablair]

I actually think that DC's sense of legacy is their biggest disadvantage when compared to Marvel for three reasons: 1) it's masterbatory, meaning that it's used to tweak the nipples of continuity at the expense of innovation; 2) it's overused; and 3) it leads to hero slaughter, as writers know they can just plug a new guy into the costume, as with Superboy and Flash.

I actually think it's one of the stronger points of DC. It allows there to be reboots without having to involve time travel or alien shape shifters.

All people do is complain that the Peter Parker we're reading about today isn't what he should be. So what is the best option? Have him get hit in the head, lose enough IQ points that he has to be re-entered into High School? Kill off his entire supporting cast? Or have him have him pass his mantle on to a new younger kid?

[horatio616]

I actually think it's one of the stronger points of DC. It allows there to be reboots without having to involve time travel or alien shape shifters.

All people do is complain that the Peter Parker we're reading about today isn't what he should be. So what is the best option? Have him get hit in the head, lose enough IQ points that he has to be re-entered into High School? Kill off his entire supporting cast? Or have him have him pass his mantle on to a new younger kid?

Used well and infrequently, it's a great device, but they use it for everything. Marvel used the best option, which is the Ultimate line.

[kahunablair]

Used well and infrequently, it's a great device, but they use it for everything. Marvel used the best option, which is the Ultimate line.

Well something being good is always dependent on how well its handled.
Look at DC, though. They've done this pretty much with every character they've had, but each time they tweak it. Sometimes it works (in my opinion Kyle Rayner) and sometimes it doesn't (Batman/Azrael).

And I know quite a few people that actually like continuity, so the Ultimate line isn't the best option for them. A new character let's them keep the history of the character but cast it in a new light.

[horatio616]

Well something being good is always dependent on how well its handled.
Look at DC, though. They've done this pretty much with every character they've had, but each time they tweak it. Sometimes it works (in my opinion Kyle Rayner) and sometimes it doesn't (Batman/Azrael).

And I know quite a few people that actually like continuity, so the Ultimate line isn't the best option for them. A new character let's them keep the history of the character but cast it in a new light.

Don't get me started on the injustice of Kyle Rayner (a fave of mine) being saddled with "Ion" and the mistreatment of Azrael (what a great costume design!)

[kahunablair]

Don't get me started on the injustice of Kyle Rayner (a fave of mine) being saddled with "Ion" and the mistreatment of Azrael (what a great costume design!)

But the character of Kyle Rayner would never have been introduced if DC wasn't willing to "Pass on the Mantle".

[mikegraham6]

What buugs me the most about bart's death is the fact that there were so many avenues they could have taken this character. Don't get me wrong, i loved this issue, and i rank it as one of the best deaths i've read in years. But did they really need to kill him to bring Wally back? Think about Green Arrow, there are two of them, there are like a million Green Lanterns, and there are already two flashes.
The idea of a boy suddenly aged by 5-8 years(?) is loaded with story potential that wasn't really used in the series.
It kind of becomes like a Captain America, man out of time, type story. I remember reading Guggenheim's first issue in which Bart receives a call from Robin discussing the Teen Titans and Bart felt very out of place with the idea. I would love to have seen him get together with his Titan pals, trying to reconnect, and have the character realize that he has outgrown his friends.
How many times in your life have you met up with an old friend over coffee and ended up only being able to reminisce about the old days and then you suddenly realize that your lives have moved past each other. A sad realization for sure, but one that almost everyone experiences. I would have loved to see that issue tackled with the Teen Titans.
I'm sure there are hundreds of other ideas i could come up with off the top of my head as well, but thats not what they pay me for at work, so i guess i should probably get back to other stuff:rolleyes:

[jbeck]

Great episode- I would love to see Rucka on Nightwing. Hey Dan- RUCKA ON NIGHTWING ! Please.

[horatio616]

But the character of Kyle Rayner would never have been introduced if DC wasn't willing to "Pass on the Mantle".

I like him but my life is no richer for his existence. It can work on occasion, but they use it with every freakin' character! In addition, they often pass the mantle to another character who already has a long history, so then what you end up with is a character who's saddled with not only with the previous characters continuity, but the new one as well. Look at Dr Fate and the Spectre.

[conorkilpatrick]

P.S. I would love to know what you think in particular Conner, being the resident DC guy.

It was a good death. I really hope they keep him dead for a while. Comic book deaths are always more impactful when they mean something and this one certainly did. The only thing I thought after reading this book was "Damn, that was awesome."

Of course, I have no particular strong allegiance to Bart. I've always been a Barry guy.

[ronxo]

Of course, I have no particular strong allegiance to Bart. I've always been a Barry guy.

and as a Wally guy, I'm elated.

[labor_days]

I'm a Zombie Flash guy. He's pretty cool, right?

[horatio616]

When I first started reading comics, the Flash was Barry, but in my mind it will always be Wally. I've not read the last two or three trades in Johns's Flash run but now maybe this will get me to finish it. I listened to the podcast and excitedly went to my LCS to pick up both Flash 13 and Robin but alas they were sold out.

[kahunablair]

I'm a Zombie Flash guy. He's pretty cool, right?

They need to have a Black Flash series. It could be "him" travelling through time, popping up as each of the Future Flashes kick the proverbial bucket. Some could die heroically others, when they're on their death bed at the ripe old age of 93.

[jaflanagan]

All I know is that if no one cared if he was dead, it wouldn't have mattered. If a character dies in a story, it doesn't matter if you don't care. RE: Goliath in Civil War.

Comic readers very often want it both ways.

[kahunablair]

All I know is that if no one cared if he was dead, it wouldn't have mattered. If a character dies in a story, it doesn't matter if you don't care. RE: Goliath in Civil War.

Comic readers very often want it both ways.

Are you saying people didn't care about Bart's death? Or that we're talking about it, so we must have cared?

[conorkilpatrick]

Are you saying people didn't care about Bart's death? Or that we're talking about it, so we must have cared?

It's right in the quote you used: "... if no one cared if he was dead, it wouldn't have mattered."

[kahunablair]

It's right in the quote you used: "... if no one cared if he was dead, it wouldn't have mattered."

Ha ha ok. Can you tell I'm not with it. Thanks for the help Conor.

[fred]

They need to have a Black Flash series. It could be "him" travelling through time, popping up as each of the Future Flashes kick the proverbial bucket. Some could die heroically others, when they're on their death bed at the ripe old age of 93.

they could **** themselves in a continuity sense though with this. I can already hear people saying: "Wally West dies the third time during Final Crisis. This takes place after, how is he alive?"

[senoj1]

DC has proven themselves in continuity they could handle it.

[fred]

This would stand for years though. You can't say that Didio and the editorial team will be the same in 10 or 15 years. I'm not saying that it wouldn't be interesting, or even that it would fail. I'm saying that it's risky from a continuity standpoint.

[kahunablair]

they could **** themselves in a continuity sense though with this. I can already hear people saying: "Wally West dies the third time during Final Crisis. This takes place after, how is he alive?"

Not if they pick Flashes that haven't been introduced yet. Wasn't there a flash in the One Million storyline? So you have all those Flashes to use. Avoid the ones we know. That could be the cool part of it.

[fred]

that's true. It would also have to be far in the future. Theoretically, we've seen chunks of today up until the 31st century right? I know not all of it but there's a lot of stuff to get tripped up on.

[conorkilpatrick]

This sounds like a possibly interesting one-shot or mini, but I don't think there's enough for a full on series.

[jimski]

I was just catching up with my RSS feeds, and it turns out Mike Wieringo thinks Flash #13 is everything that's wrong with comics. (http://www466.pair.com/mringo/2007/06/27/and-now-the-death-of-bart-allen/)

[paper]

I was just catching up with my RSS feeds, and it turns out Mike Wieringo thinks Flash #13 is everything that's wrong with comics. (http://www466.pair.com/mringo/2007/06/27/and-now-the-death-of-bart-allen/)

He admits that he didn't even ****ing read it. The end.

Though I do imagine that it must be genuinely heartbreaking to see a character you helped create die by someone else's..er..pen.

[big-doze]

I was just catching up with my RSS feeds, and it turns out Mike Wieringo thinks Flash #13 is everything that's wrong with comics. (http://www466.pair.com/mringo/2007/06/27/and-now-the-death-of-bart-allen/)

Interesting. While it's way harsh of him to judge the comic itself without having read it, he raises some points that I agree with. Is it just me, or is there a serious lack of "fun" in our funny books? Impulse was a title very much a part of the DCU, yet it was upbeat, funny and adventurous. Same with Young Justice, Superboy and the Waid/'ringo FF run. Seems like happiness is outlawed in comics these days.

Am I wrong? Agree. disagree? Is it a bad thing?

PS, can anyone recommend a superhero book with that upbeat, lighthearted feel to it that's currently on the shelves?

[conorkilpatrick]

Am I wrong? Agree. disagree? Is it a bad thing?

Depends on your definition of "fun".

PS, can anyone recommend a superhero book with that upbeat, lighthearted feel to it that's currently on the shelves?

Invincible.

[big-doze]

Depends on your definition of "fun".

Excellent point. I find comics fun regardless of their tone. Poor choice of words.

Lighthearted, optimistic, upbeat. That's more what I mean.



Invincible.

Too true, one of my faves.

Any from the Big Two?

[horatio616]

I was just catching up with my RSS feeds, and it turns out Mike Wieringo thinks Flash #13 is everything that's wrong with comics. (http://www466.pair.com/mringo/2007/06/27/and-now-the-death-of-bart-allen/)

DC kills everybody. Why is this just now becoming an issue?

[cam-]

He admits that he didn't even ****ing read it. The end.


And in honour of that I'm gonna comment on this without reading the article.

People die Mike, it's sad, but it happens. SUperhero's work in an exceptionally dangerous job. Firefighters are more likely to die than receptionists.

But again I haven't read the article.

[jimski]

DC kills everybody. Why is this just now becoming an issue?

I think the crux of his particular dealie is that, while Marvel has always prided itself on being more "realistic," DC used to be a little more colorful and idealized and fantastical. He also takes it to a "dead heroes are the new foil cover" place that I am still mulling over.

[horatio616]

I think the crux of his particular dealie is that, while Marvel has always prided itself on being more "realistic," DC used to be a little more colorful and idealized and fantastical. He also takes it to a "dead heroes are the new foil cover" place that I am still mulling over.

That's true, but in reality if there were superheroes, they'd be dying all over the place, so I can't say I'm totally against it. DC has fallen behind Marvel for having the reputation for being less realistic, but is constant death the way to change that perception? At DC, the identity is more important than who's behind the mask, so writers feel more free to kill somebody off because they know that there's already a guy, a nephew or son or whatever, ready to don the costume.

[big-doze]

That's true, but in reality if there were superheroes, they'd be dying all over the place, so I can't say I'm totally against it. DC has fallen behind Marvel for having the reputation for being less realistic, but is constant death the way to change that perception? At DC, the identity is more important than who's behind the mask, so writers feel more free to kill somebody off because they know that there's already a guy, a nephew or son or whatever, ready to don the costume.

See, if that were the situation I would have less beef, but it's really not. When's the last time a major hero passed down his legacy? Bart died so that Wally, a character who's been the Flash for close to 20 years, could come back. Kyle is becoming Parallax while Hal is resurrected, back in the spotlight. When a character is killed off just to bring back an older character to the roll then it just feels hollow, not realistic. It seems like creators are afraid of creating anything new, so they shy away from developing new characters in favor of ones who have already been established by other people. When you kill of a character that no one really gave a chance to, that's when it's no longer "realistic." It's just sad.

[horatio616]

See, if that were the situation I would have less beef, but it's really not. When's the last time a major hero passed down his legacy? Bart died so that Wally, a character who's been the Flash for close to 20 years, could come back. Kyle is becoming Parallax while Hal is resurrected, back in the spotlight. When a character is killed off just to bring back an older character to the roll then it just feels hollow, not realistic. It seems like creators are afraid of creating anything new, so they shy away from developing new characters in favor of ones who have already been established by other people. When you kill of a character that no one really gave a chance to, that's when it's no longer "realistic." It's just sad.

I don't think it's the fear that keeps them from creating anything new. The current crop of creators at Marvel and DC are riding high on a wave of 70s nostalgia. Marvel is pushing 70s creations like Spider-Woman, Cage, and Ms Marvel to the forefront while DC gives us "The Lightning Saga", Hal Jordan, and *shudder* the multiverse. American comic writers tend to wear their influences on their sleeves moreso than, say, British writers and that's why they blow their American counterparts away in terms of innovation. American comics writers are really and truly in love with superhero comics (sometimes to their detriment) while British writers have some detatchment from it.

[big-doze]

I don't think it's the fear that keeps them from creating anything new. The current crop of creators at Marvel and DC are riding high on a wave of 70s nostalgia. Marvel is pushing 70s creations like Spider-Woman, Cage, and Ms Marvel to the forefront while DC gives us "The Lightning Saga", Hal Jordan, and *shudder* the multiverse. American comic writers tend to wear their influences on their sleeves moreso than, say, British writers and that's why they blow their American counterparts away in terms of innovation. American comics writers are really and truly in love with superhero comics (sometimes to their detriment) while British writers have some detatchment from it.

Hmm, interesting. I must disagree, however. I think there's a difference in the way Marvel and DC are handling their trips down memory lane.

Take Luke Cage for example. Here's a clear blaxploitation character from the 70's, jive-talking, disco shirt-wearin', afro-sportin' badass mutha. Sure, he's back, but is he the same character as before? He's been taken in a completely different direction by Bendis, transforming him into a strong, no nonsense leader of men. Same with Spider-Woman and Ms. Marvel. Each have been revived with new and different goals and obstacles to overcome.

Hal Jordan, however, seems resurrected because everyone wanted him back, yet no one really knew why. Who is Hal these days? What are his defining characteristics post-resurrection? His goals? Flaws? It seems like they just brought back a brand without any substance or innovative ideas.

Perhaps the problem is not so much a love of superheroes, but rather a love of the way that superheroes used to be, rather than where they're going and how the characters are evolving. Thoughts?

[horatio616]

Hmm, interesting. I must disagree, however. I think there's a difference in the way Marvel and DC are handling their trips down memory lane.

Take Luke Cage for example. Here's a clear blaxploitation character from the 70's, jive-talking, disco shirt-wearin', afro-sportin' badass mutha. Sure, he's back, but is he the same character as before? He's been taken in a completely different direction by Bendis, transforming him into a strong, no nonsense leader of men. Same with Spider-Woman and Ms. Marvel. Each have been revived with new and different goals and obstacles to overcome.

Hal Jordan, however, seems resurrected because everyone wanted him back, yet no one really knew why. Who is Hal these days? What are his defining characteristics post-resurrection? His goals? Flaws? It seems like they just brought back a brand without any substance or innovative ideas.

Perhaps the problem is not so much a love of superheroes, but rather a love of the way that superheroes used to be, rather than where they're going and how the characters are evolving. Thoughts?

I would agree the approaches are vastly different. Marvel is using the 70s characters with a modern edge while DC is actually telling 70s style stories and using 70s concepts like the multiverse, Hal Jordan, and the "Superfriends".

Hal Jordan is back because Geoff Johns, Brad Meltzer, and Alex Ross LOVE him, and their wishes carry a lot of weight at DC. Don't forget that DC had previously replace Jordan 3 TIMES (John Stewart, Guy Gardner, and Kyle Raynor) so that tells you something. Also, the Green Lantern franchise was lagging so they knew an event like GL: Rebirth would spark new interest in the character.

McDuffie has expressed a desire to have John Stewart in his run of JLA, but he doesn't think he'll be able to fit him in.

[tad]

Excellent point. I find comics fun regardless of their tone. Poor choice of words.

Lighthearted, optimistic, upbeat. That's more what I mean.



Invincible.

Too true, one of my faves.

Any from the Big Two?

Get the first trade of the new Blue Beetle and Darwyn Cook's version of The Spirit. And Jeff Smith's version of Shazam.

Can't help you with Marvel.

[luthor]

Marc Guggenheim is interviewed at Newsarama about Flash 13 (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=119421), and after reading the interview...I want him to write Robin.

[six-gun]

He's coming back to Wolverine in September.

Yeah!

[luthor]

Marc Guggenheim is interviewed at Newsarama about Flash 13 (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=119421), and after reading the interview...I want him to write Robin.

Oh and the Star Wars prequels...

[mikegraham6]

He's coming back to Wolverine in September.

Yeah!

bout time, lets kick that hack Loeb off the damn thing:rolleyes:

[fred]

Jason Aaron is doing Wolverine #56.

(I'll keep saying it until someone else gets excited.)

[mikegraham6]

Jason Aaron is doing Wolverine #56.

(I'll keep saying it until someone else gets excited.)

I could get excited for that, i really enjoyed the Other Side and while i haven't had a chance to read it, i hear Scalped is excellent

[six-gun]

Jason Aaron is doing Wolverine #56.

(I'll keep saying it until someone else gets excited.)

I'm looking forward to it

[fred]

ok. two meets the requirement. I'll shut up now.

Thanks