View Full Version : Programming Show
latour
09-30-2006, 09:15 PM
I would love to see a Programming Tech Show geared towards first timers. Anyone agree?
agreed.
Perhaps a web design show aswell, maybe hosted by Daniel Burka!
I'm sure they have a crapload on their plate right now, so suggesting new shows probably isn't a realistic thing. :P
klitzy
09-30-2006, 09:25 PM
Wow both of those ideas are great but when talking about programming...what language? Java maybe?
Yea a design show with Daniel Burka would be kick ass, maybe a guest on PixelPerfect with Bert Monroy. But like you said they may be really busy.
dotwaffle
09-30-2006, 09:35 PM
Python. PYTHON python. Errr. Python. Python?
x3120
09-30-2006, 09:36 PM
The design aspect of your idea could easily be worked into Pixel Perfect, but the programming aspect doesn't really flow with the idea behind the show.
As for a programming show and focusing on a specific language, why limit it? You could focus on multiple topics each week, and field answers to questions from viewers. HTML (if anyone really needs help with that anymore..), Javascript, CSS, PHP, ASP, AJAX, MySQL, Perl... anything.
I think it's a good idea.
I think the web design aspect could be weaved into pixel perfect, perhaps like a segment with Daniel Burka on web graphics and such. But as far as the html/xhtml/css part of it, it might need a separate show. I'm sure there are many out there who would love to learn how to design sites such as digg/revision3 and others, seeing as how they're orgasmic internet candy of web sitery.
x3120
09-30-2006, 09:41 PM
I wouldn't say the Revision3 site is anything special. It's clean and easy, but it's really not much other than highly contrasted colors slapped against each other with a couple accent colors here and there.
Agreed, but there are people that wouldn't mind learning.
In any case, these are great ideas.
dwizzle13
09-30-2006, 10:05 PM
ya, a web design show and some sort of programming show would be great additions.
mongoose
09-30-2006, 10:36 PM
I'd go for a web design show. Or at least if they did web stuff on Pixel Perfect.
Wow both of those ideas are great but when talking about programming...what language? Java maybe?
How about dealing with all the popular languages instead of just concentrating on one?
sean89
10-01-2006, 01:18 AM
I would love a PHP show, or even AJAX.
tokenuser
10-01-2006, 02:58 AM
Programming show would be a pain to produce.
What do you teach?
Data structures? - in what language ...
Algorithms? - in what language ...
Graphics? - in what language ...
As a software engineer, you learn that the underlying structures are important, and the choice of language should be fit to the tasks required. Any programming show would evolve into a "trendy language of the day" concept full of fluff with no substnace.
Unfortunately it would be extremely dry content, more like a college lecture than an edutainment program.
What I *could* see working isn't so much a "show" as a "tutorial series".
Having said that, web development is a different beast - and that could be covered by a show. Tips, tricks, tools, and interviews with website leaders.
Rev3 meets DIY?
scott1
10-01-2006, 03:02 AM
I like the idea of a programing show for beginers. Does anyone else
"hello world"?
ouchast
10-01-2006, 03:35 AM
If there would be any programming show, i vote C, or C++.
Maybe some python, but C ftw!
Having said that, web development is a different beast - and that could be covered by a show. Tips, tricks, tools, and interviews with website leaders.
You have some good points. It was done on Call for Help with the Web Workshops segment. I could totally see it as a whole show, especially if they can add some Ajax and PHP into it.
sugarsickness
10-01-2006, 07:01 AM
I've been thinking about this and I think what would be cool (And more valuable than just teaching 'how' to program in a certain language) is get a group of people together and have them put together some sort of application (Game maybe or an advanced web site or something) and film it. You know, show us ways to plan projects and set realistic goals and deadlines and see what trouble they encounter with coding/creative differences/abilities and how/if they are overcome. Maybe it would be too difficult to really capture in a podcast but there are so many books/websites with easily accessable information on the programming itself I would like to see more what sort of things go on beyond it.
wookie
10-01-2006, 06:04 PM
I just logged in to start a thread on a programming show and then spotted this thread. One sure fire idea for a programming show would be to focus on cutting edge game and graphics programming techniques. There is wide interest in game programming at all skill levels and it is still the one programming field where there is a steady stream of new black magic being invented.
If I were producing the show, I'd focus on existing games and do segments with "how did they do that" themes. I'd pull in alpha nerds from all over the game industry to explain how things were done.
I've been a (professional) game programmer in the industry as an advanced/core technology programmer for years now. From my personal experience, a lot of the cool stuff in games can be explained without getting into the actual code. The trick to being a good game programmer is understanding the design of the various engine subsystems: game object management systems, inter-object communication, game logic system design, and organizing your data so that it is easy to feed through your shaders to get the cool effects. You also have to understand database design and realtime programming. All of those topics can be explained in words and whiteboard sessions (aka design diagrams).
This show by its nature would be pretty advanced when covering new techniques (e.g. parallax mapping, accumulated lighting, dynamic shadow approximation, etc) but could also have short "bootstrap" segments that cover basic terminology and game engine structure to help break down the wall of terminology.
The format of the show would be to discuss a piece of a game engine explaining why it is needed, what it does, and what are the know approaches that have been used in published games with a discussion of their compromises and tradeoffs. The goal would be to communicate the tribal knowledge that all game developers eventually learn after being in the industry a while. It's that tribal knowledge that allows game developers to stay employed while also making it hard for non-game developers to break into the industry.
Here are some show ideas:
- I think the first show should kick off with a roundup of cool new graphics techniques coming in the latest XBox360 and Wii titles, explaining which graphics libraries they used and what engines are underneath. The "bootstrap" segment would be on explaining UV texture coordinates and how textures are mapped onto models.
- An episode covering basic game engine architecture. Basically all engines have a game object management system, an inter-object communication mechanism, an animation system, a game-logic system, a sound system, an input system, a game data database and a graphics pipeline. There is also likely a custom memory manager and streaming data loader. The "bootstrap" segment would be on writing a basic shader in hlsl and cg.
- An episode covering a design for a game data database. The foundation of all games rests on the database. It is crucial for games these days to have data well organized and streamable. Cover the strategy for generating dynamic load maps for organizing the data such that the data most likely to be loaded next is close to the data that was just loaded. Basic database design is should also be covered along with the loading characteristics of a DVD drive (i.e. sometimes it is faster to read the unneeded data between two pieces of needed data than it is to read one bit of data and seek to the next bit of data and read it.)
- An episode on the various open source game dev libraries for PS2, Xbox, GB/GBC/GBA, DS, PSP, and GP2X. Getting your windows/linux box set up for development on your chosen platform, and how to use emulators for debugging. It would also be cool if it covered the options for getting your games on the actual hardware (e.g. coders cables, flash roms, mem cards, iso's, etc).
- There should probably be an episode on game tools. It would cover the tools out there for 3D graphics, pixel graphics (for mobile platforms), and animation packages. One thing I haven't seen on the open source market is a good game data database managment system. There aren't any tools out there for storing all of your data with a good streaming library that your engine can use to load data. I don't know why one hasn't been written yet. IMO, it is a huge oversight of the open source game coders. It is a rather generic piece of code that can be (re)used in many different engines, on different platforms.
I've run out of time. but I could fill 20 or more episodes that walking through the complete design of a modern engine and graphics pipeline architecture. It would be cool if there was an open source engine developed along the way as the show was being produced. If there was an engine people could download along with the episodes, the code wouldn't have to be shown on the show. The show could focus on design discussions and examining the trade-offs of various possible solutions for each piece of an engine.
Oh yeah, and there could be a parallel (or follow on) project where all of the same topics are covered but in the context of mobile gaming platforms. Again, from my personal experience, the same topics are relevant but a mobile gaming environment is more simple in some areas and more complex in others. It'd be cool to develop an open source engine for GBA or GP2X while covering the topics in the mobile context. Maybe this would be "season" two.
Cheers,
Wookie
Seems good, but not java...
jivemasta
10-02-2006, 05:01 AM
I don't think a programming show could work very well. It could possibly work if it shows a broad range of languages and doesn't just tell you how to code someting. I think it would just end up being a tutorial show and I can't see somebody talking about code. Imagine:
"Now you need to dereference the pointer so that your variable equals what the pointer points to instead of the pointer its self. So type in variable one equals asterisk pointer one and end the line with a semicolon."
x3120
10-02-2006, 08:53 AM
I was thinking more about this over the last couple days. I think the biggest problem with a programming show is that, well, has anyone here ever taken a programming class? If the language is even remotely object-oriented, you'd end up sitting through the internet-TV-equivalent of a documentary on the mating rituals of North American quail. There's no room for what would keep otherwise outsiders interested in the show to actually learn something.
Web programming languages can make sense, but the appeal in something like Pixel Perfect is that it has that whole Bob Ross feel. You're watching someone create something and give a running commentary that makes it feel somewhat alive.
With code, you're going to wind up with a video-tutorial, so-to-speak, and we've all seen those on Flash Kit and other random media-related sites. You're almost better off grabbing a tutorial site, skimming for key points, and forcing yourself to learn-by-doing.
Having said all that, if Ramzi was the host, the show would be absolutely incredible. No questions asked.
daikun
10-04-2006, 07:22 AM
As long as the show is done in a humorous format, I'd watch it.
I just like that "Hello World" idea suggested earlier. It'd make a great title. :D
ryudo
10-04-2006, 07:30 AM
I like this idea,many out there don't know as much as others but want to learn (me), and some know nothing and also may want to learn but scared of technology..ease them into it.:)
terminalsikosis
10-31-2006, 04:43 PM
I say one programming show. Mon-Wed would cover all of yourapplication programming, maybe windows on monday, linux on tuesday, mac on wednesday. Thursday and friday would be web programming, thursdays would cover all of your advanced php and more corporatly tuned programming, friday would be more of a simpler code system, or something to wind down for the weekend.
jeffchan
11-05-2006, 04:45 AM
This idea of a programming show in my opinion could work out if it is done properly.
Instead of limiting the show to a specific programming language, the show should focus on the concepts and algorithms. and to demonstrate, the show could probably use C++ or Java.
So basically, the show would be advanced coders and not for beginner who are only trying to learn a language.