View Full Version : Feeling on DiggDown
Klitzy
10-09-2006, 06:12 PM
As many of you know, one member from revision3 kindly hosts the site DiggDown which offers the video version of the newest episode of diggnation to non paying members on the same night as paying members....
As I posted a link to it today, I was just wondering how revision3 felt about this and even how everyone felt about...
Personally, I used it until the day the new rev3 site was launched and then became a member.
Anyway, discuss away....
jimmyjones
10-09-2006, 06:32 PM
well i like it cause im not a member so I dont have a problem downloading them early, Im sure that rev3 doesnt like it tho, no matter what they say. They would rather ppl become a member then downloading the eps from there.
kowgod
10-09-2006, 06:36 PM
Striker, do you provide any feedback to rev3 on your numbers? I remember at one point there was discussion of this... way back when... just wondering if you do or not?
I think anyone should be able to download it at the same time, but if you really like it you should donate to them.
jagtar
10-09-2006, 06:38 PM
yeh i definatly think he should report back to re3 on the amount of downloads..soo maybee they could report back to their sponsors....
p.s i use it most of the time:eek:
Klitzy
10-09-2006, 06:46 PM
Yeah...I sure hope he reports them but still....I am not sure how much numbers from a high school kids website mean to sponsors.
kowgod
10-09-2006, 06:49 PM
Yeah...I sure hope he reports them but still....I am not sure how much numbers from a high school kids website mean to sponsors.
True. And I think that's the biggest thing to realize: for a show that gets several hundred thousand downloads per week, I have to imagine diggdown is a very small percentage of that total.
Ordinarily Random
10-09-2006, 07:10 PM
Back before the new Rev3 site come about, I used to use DiggDown to get the latest and greatest of Diggnation. I don't watch video podcasts (or 'vidcasts') on my iPod, and I prefer not to download them either. So now that Rev3 has moved down the flash player route, I find it a lot more convenient for me. Thus, I've now become a member, in order to save me the trouble of downloading the show, and watching it early. ;)
/ryan
striker1211
10-09-2006, 09:39 PM
Yes, it was discussed a while back. For 2 weeks i tallied up all the downloads for each version on each server in calculator and posted them on a thread in the diggnation forum and asked if that was enough data, and i never got a response back at all. They may have just missed it but i stopped adding them up cuz it took forever to add them up, in retrospect i shoulda used excel... I wrote a script to measure overall bandwidth but not download statistics on the 5 or 6 servers. If you take an average filesize of 250 megs and divide by this weeks total bandwidth usage you get about 3,300 downloads.... wow now that i did that math it seems i've gotten more popular lol. I used to average a grand. If anyone from rev3 wants the detailed statistics let me know and i will write a script to parse my server logs and return the stats real time. Let me know how to contact you and how you'd like the data formatted also... But until then i'm not worried too much about overall downloads, i just wanna make sure i dont exceed my generous donator's bandwidth allowances.
thefast
10-09-2006, 09:53 PM
I don't have enough for an account, so Diggdown is the only way that I'm able to get the video early.
muffins
10-09-2006, 09:56 PM
A lot of you miss the point. You are only suppose to get the video early IF you can pay. If not you are suppose to wait for it to come out on the other day. Some of you are saying "well its the only way i can get it early because i can't afford it", yes well then you have to wait. Getting the episode early is a privilege that you receive from donating.
nownot
10-09-2006, 10:00 PM
point blank if its there im going to use it. diggnation is not loosing anything from me downloading from a alternate site, early, the day of, 3 weeks later, there not loosing anything. so point of the story if its there it will be used.
muffins
10-09-2006, 10:01 PM
Heh...try using that one with the RIAA and let me know how far it gets you.
I don't have enough for an account, so Diggdown is the only way that I'm able to get the video early.
Yea thats how I feel, sometimes I use it because of that.:rolleyes:
crumbles
10-09-2006, 10:12 PM
lol, I think Klitzy is trying to get me roiled up again. :D
I think everyone here knows my opinion on it by now. Of course DiggDown shouldn't do it. Why is this even a question?
http://revision3.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12465&postcount=24
http://revision3.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12733&postcount=34
http://revision3.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13069&postcount=44
lol, I think Klitzy is trying to get me roiled up again. :D
I think everyone here knows my opinion on it by now. Of course DiggDown shouldn't do it. Why is this even a question?
http://revision3.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12465&postcount=24
http://revision3.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12733&postcount=34
http://revision3.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13069&postcount=44
It really shouldn't be a question, if someones doing it, leave them be.
muffins
10-09-2006, 10:19 PM
It really shouldn't be a question, if someones doing it, leave them be.
No, if someone is doing it, ask them to stop.
kowgod
10-09-2006, 10:20 PM
Why is this even a question?
Crumbles, our personal feelings of loyalty aside, the content on Revision3.com is licensed under the Creative Commons license, which explicitly states:
"You are free:
* to copy, distribute, display, and perform the work
* to make derivative works
* to make commercial use of the work"
The reason there should be no question about this is because what Striker is doing does not violate the terms of the license.
No, if someone is doing it, ask them to stop.
You missed my point, it's not your problem.
samureye
10-09-2006, 10:39 PM
Come on man, you don't have that long to wait, and you get the audio in any case. It's not much they are asking for, just wait for it.
muffins
10-09-2006, 10:42 PM
Crumbles, our personal feelings of loyalty aside, the content on Revision3.com is licensed under the Creative Commons license, which explicitly states:
"You are free:
* to copy, distribute, display, and perform the work
* to make derivative works
* to make commercial use of the work"
The reason there should be no question about this is because what Striker is doing does not violate the terms of the license.
We're not talking about the legality. Its the fact that he's going against the system Rev3 has setup.
timwizard
10-09-2006, 11:04 PM
I stopped paying $5 a month because there were always problems with it being late or not working, etc.
May resubscribe, but diggdown is faster and costs less.
Klitzy
10-09-2006, 11:15 PM
We're not talking about the legality. Its the fact that he's going against the system Rev3 has setup.
Sorry, but I have a problem with anyone from Rev3 saying that we shouldn't download it early from Diggdown when there are probably 10 or more episodes of Alex and Kevin clearly stating they have downloaded and do download stuff illegally....And thats the thing..What Striker is doing is not illegal anyway.
"You can download any one elses stuff when you are not supposed to, just not ours..."
Of course, it doesnt seem to be a problem with them so I regret the fact that I even brought this topic up.....Arg Klitzy just wants to stir problems.
Actually, I do know why I brought it up...Im a member so I'm going to get it early either way. Suckers!
Just kidding everyone, chill your nuts...
Sorry, but I have a problem with anyone from Rev3 saying that we shouldn't download it early from Diggdown when there are probably 10 or more episodes of Alex and Kevin clearly stating they have downloaded and do download stuff illegally....And thats the thing..What Striker is doing is not illegal anyway.
"You can download any one elses stuff when you are not supposed to, just not ours..."
Of course, it doesnt seem to be a problem with them so I regret the fact that I even brought this topic up.....Arg Klitzy just wants to stir problems.
Actually, I do know why I brought it up...Im a member so I'm going to get it early either way. Suckers!
Just kidding everyone, chill your nuts...
Very well put, people have to chill lol
darknessgp
10-09-2006, 11:24 PM
We're not talking about the legality. Its the fact that he's going against the system Rev3 has setup.
Rev3 only recently, in the grand scheme of things, began doing the pay for official early release.
I find it odd that the people against diggdown have not given a reason WHY they think he shouldn't. The only reason Rev3 gave way back when was that they couldn't accuratly report downloads. But even without diggdown they can not report accurately because of bittorrent. There is no real reason why he shouldn't be posting the vids on diggdown.
TooDamFast
10-09-2006, 11:36 PM
ok, here is a thought, If your going to download with out paying no matter what (off of rev3 when its released or off diggdown) you save rev3 $$ by downloading it from diggdown. soo... diggdown is helping rev3.
what are the chances that rev3 revokes the CC licience of digg nation to secure their files for sales reasons? (this would suck)
Casework
10-09-2006, 11:59 PM
what are the chances that rev3 revokes the CC licience of digg nation to secure their files for sales reasons? (this would suck)
For that to happen, Rev 3 would have to be a big company with a lot of content, making memberships almost necessary. Right now they're growing, and while they'll gladly accept donations, there's no real payoff for them to switch to a system that is more strict on content distribution.
I realize people want to support Rev 3, and that's great. So do I. I'm going to purchase some shirts very soon, and they will get some money from that. But I really don't have the money to donate to them right now, and I don't feel like waiting for the show to be released. Alex in particular always talks about downloading television shows and movies, so all I can really say is practice what you preach. Not to mention, as kowgod points out, it is completely legal, so they really have no argument against a site like diggdown, aside from it possibly hurting their donation service(read: donation).
But as I said, once they have more reasons to become a member--shows are released on a set schedule, more content for members only, more perks for being a member($60/yr+free t-shirt? There's a start.)--even if people get Diggnation from diggdown, they won't be getting the whole experience if they aren't a member.
crumbles
10-10-2006, 12:35 AM
Crumbles, our personal feelings of loyalty aside, the content on Revision3.com is licensed under the Creative Commons license, which explicitly states:
"You are free:
* to copy, distribute, display, and perform the work
* to make derivative works
* to make commercial use of the work"
The reason there should be no question about this is because what Striker is doing does not violate the terms of the license.I don't know why you think you have this awesome point. You really don't. By your logic, it would be fine for me to hack Rev3's servers, and release every episode I find on there early because it's licensed by the CC license.
You're missing one very important piece.
The creative commons doesn't kick in UNTIL IT'S RELEASED TO THE PUBLIC. Sure, once the file is released to everyone, I have no problem with what you are saying. However, that's not really what's going on, is it.
crumbles
10-10-2006, 12:41 AM
Sorry, but I have a problem with anyone from Rev3 saying that we shouldn't download it early from Diggdown when there are probably 10 or more episodes of Alex and Kevin clearly stating they have downloaded and do download stuff illegally....Oh please. Spare me the "My neighbor steals, so I can steal" argument. Grow up.
*looks at Klitzy's age*
oh, nevermind...
Oh please. Spare me the "My neighbor steals, so I can steal" argument. Grow up.
*looks at Klitzy's age*
oh, nevermind...
LET it GO people! GOD
Casework
10-10-2006, 01:02 AM
I don't know why you think you have this awesome point. You really don't. By your logic, it would be fine for me to hack Rev3's servers, and release every episode I find on there early because it's licensed by the CC license.
You're missing one very important piece.
The creative commons doesn't kick in UNTIL IT'S RELEASED TO THE PUBLIC. Sure, once the file is released to everyone, I have no problem with what you are saying. However, that's not really what's going on, is it.
Your argument fails on two points.
1. "Hacking into Rev 3's servers"(why would you need to do that anyway?), would be illegal.
2. According to the Creative Commons lisence, once one person has it, they can share it with whoever they want and redistribute it however they want. This is legal, and this is what striker does.
nownot
10-10-2006, 01:22 AM
why are people getting affended by other people downloading it form diggdown. does watching diggnatin every week make you feel like you personally know kevin and alex? do you feel the need to big there big brother? im sure they really dont care where you get it, who shares it, how they sare it, etc ...... i mean cmon people wow someone downloads something off of another site instead of rev3 so lets start throwing stones @ them. this is sad ...... ok so there my rant any others.
AriaStar
10-10-2006, 01:29 AM
I think anyone should be able to download it at the same time, but if you really like it you should donate to them.
I theorize that if this were done, more people would actually pay. Sometimes people choose not to simply out of spite at having to wait for not paying. It's twisted, but if you have to pay, you don't want to, whereas if you don't have to pay, you want to pay and be nice because they're being nice.
striker1211
10-10-2006, 01:50 AM
Wow, i actually did get an email today from them, domainkeys verfied too.
http://www.diggdown.net/dmca.pdf
I am sorry for doubting you crumbles, you were right all along. I should have listened. Thanks for trying to help, i will have to close the site down in the next 24 hours. You can stop hassling everyone about it and flaming now.
phatlip12
10-10-2006, 01:57 AM
Wow, i actually did get an email today from them, domainkeys verfied too.
http://www.diggdown.net/dmca.pdf
I am sorry for doubting you crumbles, you were right all along. I should have listened. Thanks for trying to help, i will have to close the site down in the next 24 hours. You can stop hassling everyone about it and flaming now.
I don't understand this, if its protected under the Creative Commons then its protected. The only thing I can see them complaining about is the word Digg in the url. Can't you just chnage the URL?
hoodedrobin
10-10-2006, 02:03 AM
You know. you only have to change the last part of the ****ing video link to get the new episodes right?
Jesus... I mean seriously its like *****ing about 12 year olds stealing candy on halloween if you leave the dish out for them to take what they want.
Just remember what kevin and alex have said... If you stop diggdown something worse and faster will pop up. Not to mention theres bittorrent which you really cant stop. Besides the fact that I'm pretty sure they make more money on ads than people donating I dont know if it much matters anymore
striker1211
10-10-2006, 02:04 AM
You know. you only have to change the last part of the ****ing video link to get the new episodes right?
Jesus... I mean seriously its like *****ing about 12 year olds stealing candy on halloween if you leave the dish out for them to take what they want.
Just remember what kevin and alex have said... If you stop diggdown something worse and faster will pop up. Not to mention theres bittorrent which you really cant stop. Besides the fact that I'm pretty sure they make more money on ads than people donating I dont know if it much matters anymore
Actually the url thing only works this week *probably* because of the new site. Before the site change the urls had a temporary token attached to the end of them and without that token it wouldnt let the download start.
Mr. Underachiever
10-10-2006, 02:05 AM
Even though it was only couple of typos, you'd think a real cease-and-desist letter would have been proofread.
muffins
10-10-2006, 02:05 AM
Wow...its blowing my mind how you guys are still overlooking the basics.
Rev3 has a system.
The system is that you pay $5 a month to be a member and get the episodes early.
If you get the episode early without paying then you are breaking the unwritten rule.
You know its there, but you know Kevin and Alex aren't going to yell at you like Mom or Dad would.
striker1211
10-10-2006, 02:08 AM
You'd think so wouldn't you Underachiever... you'd think so...
hoodedrobin
10-10-2006, 02:12 AM
So... Whats going to stop me from paying 5 dollars and hosting the video on demonoid or tpb for free?
thefast
10-10-2006, 02:15 AM
A lot of you miss the point. You are only suppose to get the video early IF you can pay. If not you are suppose to wait for it to come out on the other day. Some of you are saying "well its the only way i can get it early because i can't afford it", yes well then you have to wait. Getting the episode early is a privilege that you receive from donating.
I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. I'm not sure if I read it somewhere on Revision3 or if I heard Kevin and Alex say it on Diggnation, but their only problem with everyone getting the episode early was bandwidth. So if someone were to put up their own site and host the files then they'd have absolutely no problem with it.
Wow, i actually did get an email today from them, domainkeys verfied too.
http://www.diggdown.net/dmca.pdf
I am sorry for doubting you crumbles, you were right all along. I should have listened. Thanks for trying to help, i will have to close the site down in the next 24 hours. You can stop hassling everyone about it and flaming now.
"piracy@revisoin3.com" is not the same as "piracy@revision3.com". You think it was just a typo, or do you think someone is trying to mess with you?
striker1211
10-10-2006, 02:23 AM
Ok, ok, I was just using that as an example. Nobody would actually believe they would send me that. Why? Because it's legal and as far as i can tell they don't care. Just tryin' to make a point, i didn't wanna freak everyone out :P Thanks for caring though.
http://static.thepiratebay.org/ea_mail.txt
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/2950/arguingpq4.jpg
[edit]
Oh yeah, and i made that typo on purpose, good eye.
striker1211
10-10-2006, 02:54 AM
I can understand the trademark thing actually. That's kinda out of their hands.
[edit]
Whoa, where did the post above this one go, not mine lol.
crumbles
10-10-2006, 03:00 AM
Your argument fails on two points.So does yours. Ironically, they are both your points.
1. "Hacking into Rev 3's servers"(why would you need to do that anyway?), would be illegal.Yea, but come on. According to you, once I have the file, I can do whatever I want with it!
Try reading what I said. Once it's released to the public, it abides by the CC. Until then, it doesn't.
DiggDown is causing loss of revenue for Rev3. Last I checked, that is theft. This is a pretty simple idea to comprehend.
2. According to the Creative Commons lisence, once one person has it, they can share it with whoever they want and redistribute it however they want. This is legal, and this is what striker does.Have you actually read the CCPL? Here, I'll quote some stuff for you.
You may not exercise any of the rights granted to You in Section 3 above in any manner that is primarily intended for or directed toward commercial advantage or private monetary compensation.Hrm... so wait a second. He's asking for donations? Uh oh... can't do that...
If You create a Collective Work, upon notice from any Licensor You must, to the extent practicable, remove from the Collective Work any credit as required by clause 4(b), as requested.Share it however they want, whenever they want? You mean as long as they let him.
And to refine what you say, it's not "once a person has it" (otherwise my hacking scenario would be correct...) it's after it's released to the public for distribution.
And how about this one:
...and You must include a copy of, or the Uniform Resource Identifier for, this License with every copy or phonorecord of the Work You distribute, publicly display, publicly perform, or publicly digitally perform.Hrmm.. don't see that anywhere on his site either. I guess he's too busy copying people by posting pictures in forums that were funny back in 1989. But then again, I guess he likes to profit off of others ideas and creativity...
darknessgp
10-10-2006, 04:07 AM
Crumbles there is one fact that kills all arguements against diggdown. And the fact is that Rev3 knows about it, and has almost as long as he has been hosting the videos. But they have done nothing to stop him, and actually they did at one time post on the forums saying they didn't care as long as they had the hard numbers. Which is what striker was talking about with figuring out the numbers and try to get it to them, but then it didn't seem like they wanted them. So that part of the CCPL is good, Rev3 isn't objecting.
On the rest of the CCPL, there are ways to get around parts of it. For example, striker asking for donation to keep his site up. He's not asking for money to be able to solely keep hosting the videos. He's asking for donations for hosting the entire site. So wording makes that part not really apply. Then there is the part where he has to have a copy of the CCPL, umm... Rev3 doesn't have a copy nor do most places that host others content, I highly doubt there is any enforcement of this.
On the part of your hacking into the site and taking videos. You are absolutely right, until it is released it is considered private intellectual property. However, you seem to think that it's released to everyone and it's released to a few are different. Whoever it is released to instantly has to follow the license it has. Which is the CCPL. Meaning 1 person can do an early sign up and then get the video and distribute it. Otherwise, there would be a private or restricted license on the material until the final release. Which there is not. Under your assumption someone that gets the membership, which technically is donations and not mandatory (that's a key thing, as you are not buying a membership, but donating and getting the membership free), could not show the video to a friend who has not become a member... The moral of the story is that striker is within his legal right to distribute the video once he gets it, that's part of the CCPL.
On a side note, Crumbles maybe it would be best if you just forgot all about diggdown. It's obvious that you dislike the fact that people are getting a video early that I'm sure you are paying for. But you can not do anything. Just like everyone has the right to assemble peacefully no matter if there cause is killing babies or fundraising.
striker1211
10-10-2006, 04:12 AM
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/4823/ddrp0.jpg
There you go... look at all the money i'm making, i'm a ****ing billionaire! You can check the math, i have receipts from 1and1, revision3, and every paypal donation. Oh, and if you didn't notice, i'm 10 dollars in the hole on this money making scheme of mine.
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-receiving-fees-outside
There's the fee outline.
samureye
10-10-2006, 04:16 AM
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/4823/ddrp0.jpg
There you go... look at all the money i'm making, i'm a ****ing billionaire! You can check the math, i have receipts from 1and1, revision3, and every paypal donation. Oh, and if you didn't notice, i'm 10 dollars in the hole on this money making scheme of mine.
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-receiving-fees-outside
There's the fee outline.
Ha. Striker, let me ask, why are you doing this, then? People don't have that long of a wait? Forget legalities or anything like that, but ethically, do you really want to do it? I mean, at the end of the day, maybe you aren't hurting them or anything, but, are you doing this just for traffic? I think that could be a factor.
striker1211
10-10-2006, 04:32 AM
I'm doing it for the fact i like helping people out. If anyone needs PC help, i'd love to be the one to help them. Many people on my buddy lists i've met through PC help chat rooms. If anyone needs a ride home from work, im that guy that takes them. You need a script debugged? That's me. I don't know but the feeling of making someones day better kicks ass. At the same time i'm not going to spend my whole day helping people nor am i going to constantly be a bus for that person that needs a ride home. In the same way i'm not going to pay for stuff for diggdown when i know other people who love to help out in their own way will help me out. The ONLY reason i posted all the money stuff was because he was accusing me of making all this money off kevin and alex, and i'm not. I would say the only thing i do wrong when hosting these videos is not showing enough support to those who donate space and money, a little text and a link cant express my gratitude. Ok, i'm getting all emotional on this thread... it's time to play some CS:S and get ready for work tomorrow.
crumbles
10-10-2006, 04:37 AM
Crumbles there is one fact that kills all arguements against diggdown. And the fact is that Rev3 knows about itYou seem to think they aren't going to do anything about it.
...and actually they did at one time post on the forums saying they didn't care as long as they had the hard numbers.Um, OK, you're totally making that up, but that's cool. Never once have any of the REV3 team said: "we don't care as long as we get the numbers." In fact, I remember the opposite. Them saying they didn't like it, and if they were insistant on doing it, the least they could do would be to provide stats.
Look, they get money by how many downloads they can show their sponsers. DiggDown not only takes that away from them, but also the potential money they could earn for memberships. Both of those are considered theft.
Striker is a thief. Period.
Casework
10-10-2006, 04:57 AM
If Revision 3 had a problem, they would try to stop it. His links have always been posted on the forums and they've been aware of it from the time he started doing it(along with another site that used to do it). I'm afraid if you have a problem with it, there's nothing you can do aside from not use diggdown and to continue donating to Rev 3.
kirkio
10-10-2006, 05:38 AM
ok, here is a thought, If your going to download with out paying no matter what (off of rev3 when its released or off diggdown) you save rev3 $$ by downloading it from diggdown. soo... diggdown is helping rev3.
Cachefly gives them free bandwidth. Besides, even if they had to pay for it, it's relatively cheap compared to a $5.00/month membership.
One thing that I request that people who use DiggDown do is subscribe to the mp3 or iPod video version of the show so that it uses minimal bandwidth, but they have the numbers for sponsors.
nextgenxbox
10-10-2006, 08:29 AM
I agree with whoever said that video should be available to everyone when its released. Not everyone has the spare cash to donate, or paypal, etc...
I agree with whoever said that video should be available to everyone when its released. Not everyone has the spare cash to donate, or paypal, etc...
Yea like me, 18 years old. I need to pay for things too you know lol.
darknessgp
10-10-2006, 09:46 PM
You seem to think they aren't going to do anything about it.
Um, OK, you're totally making that up, but that's cool. Never once have any of the REV3 team said: "we don't care as long as we get the numbers." In fact, I remember the opposite. Them saying they didn't like it, and if they were insistant on doing it, the least they could do would be to provide stats.
Look, they get money by how many downloads they can show their sponsers. DiggDown not only takes that away from them, but also the potential money they could earn for memberships. Both of those are considered theft.
Striker is a thief. Period.
Way to go at misqouting me... I said "Crumbles there is one fact that kills all arguements against diggdown. And the fact is that Rev3 knows about it, ... But they have done nothing to stop him," That's a correctly editted qoute.
Just incase anyone is wondering, Crumbles here works for the RIAA and the MPAA
kowgod
10-10-2006, 09:55 PM
This thread has become an infinite loop of pointlessness.
No one is right, no one is wrong in their opinion. Loyalty is great. Peace, love and harmony.
Two things are certain:
1) Striker is no thief.
2) Rev3 has smart people working for them who know how to take care of things when needed.
Peace.