It's Wednesday! Comics for the week of 8/15/07

[conorkilpatrick]

Tell us what you thought of the books of the week!

If you want to see what's on Josh, Ron & Conor's pull list, check it out here (http://www.ifanboy.com/archive/weblog/august_15th_200.html).

This week's Pick of the Week is Booster Gold #1 (http://www.ifanboy.com/archive/pickoftheweek/08152007_booste.html)!

http://www.ifanboy.com/images/pickoftheweek081507-thumb.jpg

Watch out for SPOILERS, because from here on out, people are talking about the books of the week.

[mikegraham6]

Hope I'm not overstepping my bounds here, but I have a job interview this evening and I wanted to post my review while the book was still fresh in my mind (I tried to keep it spoiler free folks):

Ultimate Spider-Man #112 – This was Stuart Immonen’s first issue and I’m of mixed feelings about it. I love his style and his action scenes were excellent and very dynamic, but I felt that the high school scenes lost me a bit. They weren’t bad but they weren’t Bagley either. It was jarring to see characters like Flash Thompson and Kong reinvented, but change is good, right? In terms of the story itself, this was the first issue of a new arc and it was basically all set up. I’m excited with the possibilities that are going to arise out of this set up but it’s not delved into too deeply in this issue. I’m also glad that Bendis is finally addressing the whole Kitty Pryde/Peter/MJ triangle, which has been a long time coming, and this arc has great potential. I was really excited when I saw that Kitty was going to attend Peter’s high school, since the character development scenes tend to be the strength of this series and now I think we are going to in for a treat. As for the return of a major villain, this could go either way. I’ve liked his previous appearances, but it’s the love triangle that has piqued my interest. The issue though, suffered because it was all setup. But it has me excited for the next issue, and I guess in that respect, it’s done its job. B

[iSteve]

Great review, Mike. Didn't need to worry about spoilers - this is a spoilers thread after all. I haven't read the issue yet, but I'm sure it's going to be a bit disorienting without Bagley. I'm also sure we will get use to the new interpretation.

Today, I just bought my son Vol. 1 of USM. He started reading it and can't put it down.

[horatio616]

The most exciting thing that came out this week was JLA 12, which means that next month there's a chance JLA will be readable. Yay!

I have the latest Flash waiting for me at home. Hopefully, this is something I can get into.

[telecarlos]

Guess what fellers?

I'm currently too poor to buy my comics. Spent too much money hanging out and irresponsibly spending around and now that I moved to Ft. Lauderdale, haven't even bothered to find a comic store. Things will get better in a few months but for now, its sandwiches for lunch. I'm too poor to even go out on a date! Things will be alright by december thou ( I have a good job), so its gonna be trades for me. Still listen to the podcasts and hit the forums, just to keep my feet wet.

Will date for food ladies!!!

[horatio616]

Guess what fellers?

I'm currently too poor to buy my comics. Spent too much money hanging out and irresponsibly spending around and now that I moved to Ft. Lauderdale, haven't even bothered to find a comic store. Things will get better in a few months but for now, its sandwiches for lunch. I'm too poor to even go out on a date! Things will be alright by december thou ( I have a good job), so its gonna be trades for me. Still listen to the podcasts and hit the forums, just to keep my feet wet.

Will date for food ladies!!!

What would you be willing to do for a Quiznos?

[jo11ypenguin]

I am just getting back into comics so I am not reading much. This week was a very light week only 2 books, Booster Gold, and Countdown. I enjoyed both but i am going to have to go with Booster Gold as the best for this week. I am also happy to see the origins in the back of Countdown. Allthough the history of the multiverse brought me up to speed, I am sick to death of the monitors talking to each other.

[mikegraham6]

Great review, Mike. Didn't need to worry about spoilers - this is a spoilers thread after all. I haven't read the issue yet, but I'm sure it's going to be a bit disorienting without Bagley. I'm also sure we will get use to the new interpretation.

Today, I just bought my son Vol. 1 of USM. He started reading it and can't put it down.

thanks steve!

[kahunablair]

Still reading through my stack, but I just read USM, and I wanted to say how much I enjoyed it.
I know I'm going to get heat, but I wasn't all that crushed when Bagley left. He was a great artist, and what he did with the series is to be commended, but I really like the new art style.
I also really liked the writing in this issue. I know it's been a weird past few issues, but I just haven't been loving this book as much as I was since the Clone saga.
This one issue brought it all back for me. The interaction in the High School scenes made me excited for the apparent re-launch the rumors are saying will happen to Mainstream Spidey.

Oh and what is up with Kitty's new mask? Looks like something a blind Wolverine would wear. Does her mutant power let her sense things now ala Daredevil? Or is it made out of the same material as the Spidey mask's eyes?

[mikegraham6]

i think im one of the few bagley supporters kahuna, so dont feel bad.

i liked kitty's mask, it fit her "shadowcat" codename

[mikegraham6]

Booster Gold #1 - You know what? I love the Booster Gold character. He's got that "love to hate" quality that you find with a character like Guy Gardner, but not too such an extreme. He's self-centered but he also has good intentions. There were many things that i didn't like about this book, but the fact that it starred Booster more than made up for it. I loved the beginning, his interaction with the JLA is spot on and the book maintains a certain level of humour (Rip's comment about Superboy even slightly breaks the "fourth wall") and a great narration style (i love the brackets). I think the book starts to slow down a bit in the middle, where it tries to hard to recapture the hectic style found in the last issue of 52. The level of exposition revealed by Rip took me out of the story as well, as it felt like he was basically explaining stuff to the reader rather than actually moving the story along.
I was also a bit lost on the time period this is suppose to take place in (i might sound a bit like Ron here, so brace yourself). Now this book takes place after 52, and booster says he took some time off after 52, but when you get the WW3 flashback, the book says it's eleven weeks ago, so does that mean that it's only been roughly 9 weeks since One Year Later in the DCU?? i find that hard to believe.
One other question: Did Booster always have a Legion flight ring or no? It looks like this might be a future plot point, so I'm guessing no.
Dan Jurgens art was decent as well, nothing special but servicable. If it was anyone other than Booster this would have scored lower, but I love the character and the "secret hero" concept so this book gets some extra points there. B

[mikegraham6]

The Flash #231 - Mark Waid's first issue and from what I've heard, the guy had a pretty good run a couple of years back. I really like the character of the Flash, but I haven't really read too much of him. Besides a few John's issues and a trade, my only real exposure has been with the Guggenheim run and the JLA. That being said, I really really loved that last Guggenheim issue and it kind of left me with really high expectations of this Waid run.
With this issue, it looks like Waid will be taking this series in a completely different direction. It looks like it will focus on Wally's family, and his kids look like they will be helping with the superheroing. I applaud Waid for taking this original direction for the series, but I have to say I'm completely uninterested in it. People will probably really like this family direction but it's not for me. I already mentioned how much I disliked the whole wolf Cub storyline in Fables and this reminds me of it. Sorry people but im not a fan of little kids. The art was really cool. I like Acuna's style, it feels very original but this looked a bit more rushed in places compared to his Green Lantern run. C+

[mikegraham6]

Justice League of America #12 - The best thing Brad Meltzer did in this book was put Roy Harper on the team. He's my favorite member and while his scenes in this issue were brief, they were the most touching and human moments of the book. Besides that though, I felt this was a pretty subpar wrapup to his run. This would be a good issue for first time readers to pick up and learn about each of the (obscure) members of the League. The problem with it, is that it's boring. The espionage, the backstabbing and the struggles of this team remains to be extremely uninteresting to me. It not to say that these are weak concept Meltzer's introducing, it's just that, in the past 12 issues, he failed to make me invest any emotional interest in anyone other than the characters I am already familiar with. Maybe in the hands of the next writer I will actually begin to care about them and then these plot threads will actually mean something to me but for the mean time this is a subpar ending to a subpar run (11 was great though!). Although McDuffie's Fantastic Four run has me less than pumped for the next issue. The art was pretty as usual, Benes does a great job. C

[horatio616]

The Flash 231: Big fan of the Flash. Big fan of Waid's run the Flash. Not a big fan of this. The laws of comics state that the children of superheroes are not permitted to age normally. This tiresome cliche knows no company boundaries, having been used on Magik, Franklin Richards, Gwen Stacy's twins, Jenny Quantum, Bart Allen, and now Wally's kids. Not only do Wally and Linda not seem to be fretting that they've been cheated out of the most wonderful years of parenthood, but they also appear more than ready to move the kids out of the house and into the Watchtower. The art is nice enough, but it doesn't have the dynamic sense movement that a book like The Flash needs. At least DC had the decency not to renumber the series, which would have given people the false hope that this would be a good jumping on point. This is a retcon waiting to happen.

Let kids in comics grow up at a normal rate, for chrissakes. Somebody send word to Bendis.

[horatio616]

Ultimate Spider-Man #112 Writing is good. Art is good. Using a plot device from a recent episode of Hanna Montana and a recent Robin Williams movie is not good. I'm talking about taking care of fake babies here. Maybe he saw that Hanna Montana episode and didn't think anyone would notice if he pinched a storyline from the show. Perhaps he didn't think that people who watch Hanna Montana also read USM. Wrong, Bendis. Wrong.

[mikegraham6]

Perhaps he didn't think that people who watch Hanna Montana also read USM. Wrong, Bendis. Wrong.

is that something to be proud of though? ;)

j/k

[horatio616]

is that something to be proud of though? ;)

j/k

Knowledge of Hanna Montana and High School Musical are required viewing for parents of pre-teen girls.

It's not all bad. Ashley Tisdale is kinda hot.

[labor_days]

It's not all bad. Ashley Tisdale is kinda hot.

The poorer man's Hilary Duff.

[horatio616]

The poorer man's Hilary Duff.

Gosh, would it be weird for two grown men to debate the relative hotness of Hillary Duff and Ashley Tisdale?

Hillary Duff isn't even the hottest Duff!

[telecarlos]

What would you be willing to do for a Quiznos?

Thanks for the offer man! Even thou we may share a love for comics and Flight of the Conchords, I'm gonna have to decline. I kinda like girls, they smell better and are, cuter... you know. But thanks! that's a nice gesture.

Well, it's tuna sandwich night and a borrowed Constatine DVD, yipee!!!

[telecarlos]

Hey! I also watch Hanna Montana! I like it a lot too!

Trust me, having a 11yrold daughter keeps me young at heart. I even gave Emo a chance and dig it. I am definitely more up to speed in my tween girly movies than anything else.

Ah, the joys of being a parent!

[labor_days]

osh, would it be weird for two grown men to debate the relative hotness of Hillary Duff and Ashley Tisdale?

Hillary Duff isn't even the hottest Duff!

I can't see eye to eye with a Haylie fan. Bah!


(back to comics before we get banned, arrested or just creep everyone else out. to be honest, i'm creeping myself out. the hell?)

[kwok_talk]

I can't see eye to eye with a Haylie fan. Bah!


(back to comics before we get banned, arrested or just creep everyone else out. to be honest, i'm creeping myself out. the hell?)

Shoot, do I have to give back the stolen ipods that Dateline gave me for turning you all in?

[horatio616]

Shoot, do I have to give back the stolen ipods that Dateline gave me for turning you all in?

Ashley Tisdale is 22 and I'm 35, which officially makes me merely pathetic and not creepy.

[labor_days]

Ashley Tisdale is 22 and I'm 35...
Awesome. I feel less unclean now.


Re: comics

Black Canary was pretty crummy this week, no? The mini started out alright but it got so damn ham-fisted and predicable. I don't even know why I bothered to get #3 & #4. What a waste of time and money. Rating: F

Flash was alright but the ultra buff son looks unnatural in a most disturbing way. Not good as good as I had hoped. Rating C-

Glad there was less Jimmy Olsen than usual in this week's Countdown. All the Mary Marvel, Zatanna and Challengers stuff is great. Everything else in the series sucks so hard it swallows. Rating: D

You're a fool to not be reading Cap. Brubaker is quietly becoming the best writer at Marvel. Cap #29 was excellent. Rating: More Black Widow, please.

Brave & The Bold was meh. It wrapped up too quickly at the end. And f--k me if Batman doesn't know all the answers to the cosmos already. Fun in parts, convoluted in others. Rating: C

[mikegraham6]

Countdown #37 - I can't believe I'm saying this but the Jimmy Olsen storyline has FINALLY got me interested! Remember at the beginning of the series when Olsen notes Jason Todd's secret identity and there was a fan uproar? Remember how they said it was intentional and they were going to touch on this later? Well I think the time is now. I still hate the Olsen character but I want to know what's going on.
It's a good thing that this storyline's gotten interesting too because the Mary Marvel one looks like it's gone off the rails. There's a throwaway line at the end of her scene that sounds like it will eventually get interesting, but I think for the next couple of issues at least, it will be pretty boring.
The Rogues story is the same fast paced buddy adventure we've come to expect from the past few issues, but i've got a bad feeling that it's starting to follow a formula, and I hope they throw me a curve ball soon.
The search for Ray Palmer story is also a snoozefest. I'm not reading The All New Atom but it's got to be more interesting than this. Is that where all the action is taking place? Because it's definitely not here.
Finally the Karate Kid story also has lost me. I don't care for the character so I don't care if he has a disease. That being said, each one of these stories has potential, so I'm still going to stick it out for the long run, I just hope that more than one of them starts to pick up steam soon.
One final thing, what happened to the Darkseid or Monarch stories? It feels like we haven't seen them in ages, DC get on that! C+

[mikegraham6]

Well that's all my reviews for now kiddies, im off to watch INLAND EMPIRE and then off to bed. I've still got Robin,Brave & the Bold and Captain America to read on the bus tomorrow, im saving the best for last (cap, not brave and the bold). I've also got my missing copy of Green Arrow Year One #3 that my store forgot about last week, but since it's from last week, I wont bother reviewing it.
So i'll try to get reviews of those books up when i get to work.
Hope you guys liked them!

[kwok_talk]

Great reviews Mike, always love reading them!

[mikegraham6]

Great reviews Mike, always love reading them!

Cheers buddy, it's appreciated!

[paper]

Ultimate Spider-Man #112 Writing is good. Art is good. Using a plot device from a recent episode of Hanna Montana and a recent Robin Williams movie is not good. I'm talking about taking care of fake babies here. Maybe he saw that Hanna Montana episode and didn't think anyone would notice if he pinched a storyline from the show. Perhaps he didn't think that people who watch Hanna Montana also read USM. Wrong, Bendis. Wrong.

I can't let this one go.

Every work of serialized fiction with teens going to high school has a fake baby or egg-as-baby episode. So all three of those things are buying into the cliche.

[fred]

I went with Killing Girl #1 as my Book of the Week and Ripclaw #1 as my Shit Book of the Week.

the rest are here (http://thisweekincomics.com/08152007.php)

[conorkilpatrick]

One other question: Did Booster always have a Legion flight ring or no? It looks like this might be a future plot point, so I'm guessing no.

As far as I know he's always had a Legion flight ring.

Not only do Wally and Linda not seem to be fretting that they've been cheated out of the most wonderful years of parenthood, but they also appear more than ready to move the kids out of the house and into the Watchtower.

Umm... they weren't robbed of raising their kids. That's what they were off doing when they got zapped away in Infinite Crisis.

IN Imfinite Crisis #4, Wally, Jay, and Bart joined together to stop the rampage of Superboy-Prime in Smallville, using their top speeds to hinder him and trap him in another dimension. During the battle, Wally seemed to turn into energy and started to disappear. He was able to appear to Linda (his "lightning rod"). During his goodbye to her, she grabbed onto him with their infant children in her arms and all four vanished.

Apparently, Linda, Wally and their twins were still alive in an alternate reality, living in its version of Keystone City, from which only Bart Allen managed to return. Bart told the other heroes that Wally was "just taking some time away" with Linda to watch his twins grow without dealing with the pressures of being a hero.

[paper]

Flash 231. I dunno.

I'm angry. When I saw the glimpse into the future at the end of All Flash I knew this wasn't going to be the book for me. Family of super heroes. Fine. I love The Incredibles. I don't want that from the Flash. Screw it. I'm done.

No more comics.

The level of pissed that I am....It is a piss ocean. There are ****ing piss tides!


ARRRRRRRGGGGGHHHH!!!!!!

God, I just remembered the awful exposition. "And then remember when you did that?" "Right! That was around the time you did this!"

Come on!

[marshallg]

OUTSIDERS FIVE OF A KIND WEEK 3 THUNDER MARTIAN MANHUNTER
With the first two issues of this mini not living up to my standards I placed number three on the top of my stack, a spot reserved for the lesser anticipated books of the week. The story is basically that Batman sends the Martian Manhunter and Thunder on a mission deep within the earth to investigate an alien disturbance. The mission also serves as a test for Thunder to remain in the Outsiders. This issue had a little bit of everything, action, drama, suspense, and unpredictable twists and turns. This was a Countdown tie-in so some New God related stuff went down too. The art was acceptable, really nice in spots but hard to follow at other times. The DCU needs more Martian Manhunter. B+

[jaflanagan]

God, I just remembered the awful exposition. "And then remember when you did that?" "Right! That was around the time you did this!"

Come on!

Expect more on this from me this week.

[jimski]

I haven't read Robin yet, but of the few books I bought this week I would give all of them Bs or better. Have I finally refined my buying criteria down to a science after all these years?

No. Just lucky one week.

As the man destined to be Terror Inc.'s only buyer, I have to say I liked it; it exceeded my admittedly low expectations. (I almost always buy the first issue of a Max book, as if wishing hard enough will magically turn the contents into Alias by the time I get it home.) I've only heard of this character thanks to the "League of Losers" arc of Kirkman's Marvel Team-Up, but this one issue compellingly told his entire backstory from 455 A.D. to present while also setting up the mini's premise, dishing out some gut-churning action, and putting all the pieces in place before the hangiest cliffhanger I've seen hangin' in quite a while. There were also some f-words and implied nudity. I can't think of much you could add to that. Maybe some free candy stapled to the last page.

(I never noticed before that Max books don't have the word "Marvel" on them anywhere.)

Reading Immonen's Ultimate Spider-Man made me feel like I was cheating on Mark Bagley, but I liked it anyway. Before this, Immonen was more than once the deciding factor into whether I'd buy a book or not; hopping onto something I already buy was almost considerate of him.

[paper]

Expect more on this from me this week.

I look forward to it.

I was a little over the top up there. Here's my thinking now that I've cooled down. And I know that Mike's on the same page as me when all's said and done. The new direction is fine. It's just not what I want to read. And that's especially frustrating when I enjoyed the last arc so much. Seriously. I read the death of Bart Allen and the next day I bought a Flash shirt. It was exciting. I was so surprised and thrilled to have found this character and his legacy. Now it just feels like Bart was a footnote.

A kid just died, and now the book's turning into a family adventure series? Maybe it's because I'm not a big Waid fan in the first place, but....this gives me the same feeling a lot of life-long comic fans feel when a hollywood writer waltzes in and messes around in their sandbox. This stylistic reboot just feels arrogant to me.

And it's been a theme with me for a while. Bad exposition? Bad book. It's not just a lazy way to tell the story...it's downright stupid. Listen, you're not gonna escape exposition duty in comics like this. You have to recap the past events somehow. Look at Booster Gold #1. He tells us the story in his own unique voice. And it worked. Waid has the time and experience to know that what he did here was lame. And personally...I think he should be ashamed.

[keithm]

This was a pretty disappointing week overall.

Flash #231 was a major let down. I really don't like the direction this book took. Does anyone really want bratty kids in their Flash? Hopefully this ends after the first storyline. Also, I absolutley hate Acuna's art. Geez, get a freaking inker or something. It's just so blobby and neon and completely unappealing.

Ult Spidey #112 was okay. I'm interested to see where the MJ beast storyline goes and I'm glad to see Kitty is still around in a big way. But hasn't the baby assignment plot been done in like every teen series ever? It seems a little hackneyed for Bendis, but maybe he'll take it in an interesting direction. Also, Immonen's art was good, but the book just didn't feel the same. He does action scenes really well, but I hope he gets more of a grip on the quiet character moments.

Countdown Week 37...ugh. I really wonder why I'm buying this anymore. Actually, I know that the only reason I'm still buying this is so that I'm not completely lost when Final Crisis starts. People complain that Marvel does too many crossovers, but I feel like if I don't buy this book I won't be able to get back into DC until late next year. And honestly, the thought of dropping all my DC stuff bothers me less and less every week. But anyway, back to the book itself. First off, god did the art suck. I really hope that the rumors of DC attaching some big guns to this prject is true. Also, the whole touching on other storylines thing is starting to bug. Is the first time it's been revealed that Karate Kid has some sort of virus? If not, it would help if they could make it more appearant where else his storyline appears, and if so, it was just kinda brushed over. Also, I'm begining to think that Jimmy Olsen is one of the lamest characters in DC. He's been in existance for over 60 years, and he's still just a goofy kid tagalong. He's hardly a timeless icon, and feels hugely dated. Why doesn't DC do something to mature him? Also, I had no idea that he didn't know Clark was Superman. This makes him look like a total idiot. Also, after all these years Supes didn't feel he could trust his "best pal" with his secret ID? Well, I guess DC's succeeded in convincing me that Jimmy Olsen MUST Die...

[k33k3r]

I had a very lite week this week with only 6 books. With three from each of the big two. I still haven't read one. A friend of mine who is in the Army was in town last night so we went and caught a couple beers with him. But based on the books I have read the final one is most likely going to be my SBoW.

My POW is Captain America #29 with USM #112 right on it's coat tails. My SBoW I'm guessing is going to Annihilation Conquest: Quasar #2.

Marvel
Captain America - POW - I don't know what else to say other than, WOW! Brubaker this was amazing. You have had plans for these character for a long time now. At least a year. The last page was amazing and made me agry when I saw the back cover was next to it. I want more, nough said.

Ultimate Spider-Man #112 - Even with the new pencils it was still a great book. Give him time and he'll find his feet and this book will be close to the book that everyone knew and loved.

Annihilation Conquest: Quazar #2 - SBoW - I'm going to just go out on a limb since this is the only book I haven't read yet and it would take a lot after the last issue of this mini to make it not the turd of the week. So I guess I'm giving it the award blind. I highly doubt i'm wrong.

DC
Countdown #37 - There were a lot of WTF moments in this issue. Mainly the last page.... God I hate Jimmy Olsen. Die you piece of shit Die!
The rest of the issue was a lot better than last weeks and I don't even mind the KK crap in this weeks or even the Ivy stuff durring the issues and at the end. I miss the multiverse stuff at the end but the villians stuff is a good replacement since they ran out of story.

Justice League of America #12 - Not as good as the previous issue but it came no where near to the crap that was the lightning sage shart. Red Tornado walking in on Roy and Kendra was funny as hell.

Robin #165 - Was anyone else afraid to open this issue after they saw the cover? Robin looked like he was a crack baby with down syndrome. That aside the story was great and the inner art actually didn't make my eyes bleed for once.

That's it for me. I'll send out my review of Quasar after I read it.

[horatio616]

I can't let this one go.

Every work of serialized fiction with teens going to high school has a fake baby or egg-as-baby episode. So all three of those things are buying into the cliche.

Oh man! Did you read next month's solicitation? "Spider-Man learns the hard way the dangers of playing in abandoned refrigerators."

Does this board skew too young to make Punky Brewster references?

[horatio616]

As far as I know he's always had a Legion flight ring.



Umm... they weren't robbed of raising their kids. That's what they were off doing when they got zapped away in Infinite Crisis.

IN Imfinite Crisis #4, Wally, Jay, and Bart joined together to stop the rampage of Superboy-Prime in Smallville, using their top speeds to hinder him and trap him in another dimension. During the battle, Wally seemed to turn into energy and started to disappear. He was able to appear to Linda (his "lightning rod"). During his goodbye to her, she grabbed onto him with their infant children in her arms and all four vanished.

Apparently, Linda, Wally and their twins were still alive in an alternate reality, living in its version of Keystone City, from which only Bart Allen managed to return. Bart told the other heroes that Wally was "just taking some time away" with Linda to watch his twins grow without dealing with the pressures of being a hero.

They were gone only a year, and in that year one of the kids aged 10 years and the other 8, even though they're twins (wtf?), so essentially Wally and Linda were robbed of a good portion of the joys of parenthood. They appear to be okay with that so...

The more I think about it, the crappier this book gets.

[mikegraham6]

God, I just remembered the awful exposition. "And then remember when you did that?" "Right! That was around the time you did this!"

Come on!

That was a HUGE problem this week!!! Not only did Flash do it, but so did Booster Gold (Rip's narration, not Booster's) and Robin!! C'mon guys, that's just sloppy writing.
I look forward to what you have to say about this Josh

[horatio616]

That was a HUGE problem this week!!! Not only did Flash do it, but so did Booster Gold and Robin!! C'mon guys, that's just sloppy writing.
I look forward to what you have to say about this Josh

When you're given a new editorial mandate every week and trying to shoehorn everything into Countdown and trying to prep things for Final Crisis, I imagine it's very difficult to tell any kind of story at all.

[mikegraham6]

Robin #165 - Another average book this week (man this is turning out to be a really weak shipment). I wasn't too impressed with the last issue, I felt it was clichéd and formulaic, well this issue follows suit. The beginning felt like something right out of a videogame. Robin had to work his way through the "bosses" until he made it to the final battle. I also wasn't impressed with the way they presented Dodge's origin, another big theme with this week's books-- Exposition Problems!!! ARGH! The art was good (excluding the cover, which made Robin look like he had an allergic reaction to a bee sting), but I hope we get back to some more of Tim's personal life. This book is like Ultimate Spider-Man in that respect, it works best when it shows the main character juggling his personal life with his superheroing.
Who am I kidding? the real reason i didn't like this issue? NO KILLA NILLA!! That dude needs his own book now! C-

[jimski]

Countdown Week 37...ugh. I really wonder why I'm buying this anymore. I feel like this is all I hear about this book every week. There's gotta be someone out there who's into Countdown elbows deep. Anybody feel like mounting a vigorous defense of Inter-Crisis Weekly?

[fred]

People are expecting it to be 52 and it's not. It doesn't try to be though. It's kind of unfair. I actually talk about this a bit on the latest episode of the podcast.

[mikegraham6]

People are expecting it to be 52 and it's not. It doesn't try to be though. It's kind of unfair. I actually talk about this a bit on the latest episode of the podcast.

i don't expect it to be 52, i just expect it to be good.... and it's not (in most cases)

[horatio616]

People are expecting it to be 52 and it's not. It doesn't try to be though. It's kind of unfair. I actually talk about this a bit on the latest episode of the podcast.

Well, isn't it fair? They are counting back down from 52 and it's officially a sequel to 52 and a prequel to Final Crisis, so any comparisons are ones they invited. If you're asking people to invest over a hundred and fifty bucks on a story it better pay off.

[pkbear]

Countdown 37 - what was with the art this week? I turned the page and was a little confused by Mary Marvel being shown Zatanna's mansion by Veronica Lodge. And when Jimmy rips open Clark's shirt, why did Clark suddenly grow 2 feet bigger and wider? Or did Jimmy become Shrinking Action Man?

[k33k3r]

well you have to remember that 52 was the first attempt at the weekly book thing and it turned out really well. It's always hard to meet or beat the first of anything.

[k33k3r]

welcome to the board pkbear

[pkbear]

welcome to the board pkbear

Thanks...finally coming out of lurkdom.

[k33k3r]

see i've wondered how long people lurk and don't speak here.

So how long were you reading but not posting? That's if you don't mind me asking you that.

[kwok_talk]

Welcome pkbear!

[pkbear]

Not too long reading the Board. Been listening to the podcasts on the way to work for a month or so. Was working my way back but took the leap and started from the beginning. I laugh, I cry, it's better than Cats.

Nice to have a place to read and talk about comics. Folks in my office (even the geeks) give my Batman and Superman figures an odd look. But for some reason, my articulated Spidey, with magnets on his hands and feet, is okay for everyone to play with.

[k33k3r]

because they've seen the movies....

[jaflanagan]

Not too long reading the Board. Been listening to the podcasts on the way to work for a month or so. Was working my way back but took the leap and started from the beginning. I laugh, I cry, it's better than Cats.

Clearly you check out. That is indeed an old joke from the murky beginnings of our past.

As far as Countdown goes, we were still *****ing at 52 by this point. I think the second act is about to start. We'll know then if it's any good.

[mikegraham6]

Clearly you check out. That is indeed an old joke from the murky beginnings of our past.

As far as Countdown goes, we were still *****ing at 52 by this point. I think the second act is about to start. We'll know then if it's any good.

i agree that 52 didn't really start to get going until the second act as well. but that's not really my problem with the book. I have patience and i don't mind waiting to see where the story goes, but i just find that the book is excuted poorly compared to 52. The writing is sloppy, the characters aren't as interesting and the only real reason i've stuck around for as long as i have is because i KNOW for a fact that it's going to be building to something extremely important, and i feel i'll be missing out if i drop it. But should i have to put up with subpar stories and boring characters to do so?

[conorkilpatrick]

They were gone only a year, and in that year one of the kids aged 10 years and the other 8, even though they're twins (wtf?), so essentially Wally and Linda were robbed of a good portion of the joys of parenthood. They appear to be okay with that so...

They were gone from Earth 1 for a year. They were in the other dimension for much longer. Again, they weren't robbed of anything. If anything, they gained because they got to live ten years (or so) in the space of one year.

[mikegraham6]

They were gone from Earth 1 for a year. They were in the other dimension for much longer. Again, they weren't robbed of anything. If anything, they gained because they got to live ten years (or so) in the space of one year.

didn't it say in the issue that the kids grew up at a faster pace because they inherited Wally's sped up metabolism? Where they really gone for ten years, because it was my understanding from reading this issue, that they were gone for a year, but in that year the kids grew at an accelerated rate

[jaflanagan]

i agree that 52 didn't really start to get going until the second act as well. but that's not really my problem with the book. I have patience and i don't mind waiting to see where the story goes, but i just find that the book is excuted poorly compared to 52. The writing is sloppy, the characters aren't as interesting and the only real reason i've stuck around for as long as i have is because i KNOW for a fact that it's going to be building to something extremely important, and i feel i'll be missing out if i drop it. But should i have to put up with subpar stories and boring characters to do so?

You don't HAVE to do anything. No one's forcing you to buy the book every week. If you want to know what's going on so you can follow the next big story, then follow it on wikipedia. If you're not enjoying Countdown, why spend 3 bucks a week (or it's like 12 bucks in canada)? The information will be available readily enough for you if you need it.

That's where the companies get you. Keep reading, just in case it might matter, so you can say, "I was there when it happened!"

Meh.

[conorkilpatrick]

I feel like this is all I hear about this book every week. There's gotta be someone out there who's into Countdown elbows deep. Anybody feel like mounting a vigorous defense of Inter-Crisis Weekly?

I suppose you didn't listen to the show the last two weeks.

[horatio616]

They were gone from Earth 1 for a year. They were in the other dimension for much longer. Again, they weren't robbed of anything. If anything, they gained because they got to live ten years (or so) in the space of one year.

Sheesh this is some messed up junk. I read it as the kids aged ten years in one year, not the kids aging ten years normally, but only one year going by on earth. So how is it that one of the kids is ten and the other is eight then?

According to this:
http://www.hyperborea.org/flash/jaiwest.html

The kids grew up an accelerated rate, not aging normally in a place where time passes slower. Either way, that's wonky, because that would mean that Wally came back ten years older.

[mikegraham6]

You don't HAVE to do anything. No one's forcing you to buy the book every week. If you want to know what's going on so you can follow the next big story, then follow it on wikipedia. If you're not enjoying Countdown, why spend 3 bucks a week (or it's like 12 bucks in canada)? The information will be available readily enough for you if you need it.

That's where the companies get you. Keep reading, just in case it might matter, so you can say, "I was there when it happened!"

Meh.

trust me, im close. if it doesn't wow me in the next 2 or 3 weeks, i'll probably drop it. But don't get me wrong there's usually something in the issue i enjoy. Usually it's the rogues, but like i said in my review, i think that story is getting dangerously close to getting stale. Cmon DC keep me interested, it's not like i dont want to buy your book

[jimski]

I suppose you didn't listen to the show the last two weeks.
Yeah, you guys have been onboard, haven't you? I may have been making the mistake I occasionally make, paying attention to the internet as if it is some reflection of physical reality. :)

I agree broadly with Josh that if you're buying a book you don't like so that you might one day understand another book, there may be some missteps going on there. Let me put it this way: what if it turns out you hate Final Crisis? What if Grant Morrison is off his meds, and you just can't stand it, and then you have to live with the fact that you bought 39 $3 issues of something after you'd decided it was bad just to be up to speed with something you decided was bad? Oh, man. Plus, if you're spending $150 this year in an effort to understand a Grant Morrison book, your plan has a fatal flaw.

[jaflanagan]

The kids grew up an accelerated rate, not aging normally in a place where time passes slower. Either way, that's wonky, because that would mean that Wally came back ten years older.

Not necessarily. Other dimensions can be tricky. Don't forget the Back the Future rule of time travel. Don't try to pinpoint it, and make it make absolute sense, but rather have fun with it, and think about the ramifications to the characters and what it would mean for people.

[horatio616]

Not necessarily. Other dimensions can be tricky. Don't forget the Back the Future rule of time travel. Don't try to pinpoint it, and make it make absolute sense, but rather have fun with it, and think about the ramifications to the characters and what it would mean for people.

I think we've nearly come to a consensus that the kids aged rapidly, and that means Waid glossed over the fact that Wally and Linda didn't get to experience what most other parents experience. Waid didn't think about the ramifications to the characters. He may at some point, but I'm not really interested in waiting for it. I'll just get my Wally fix in the JLA.

[conorkilpatrick]

I think we've nearly come to a consensus that the kids aged rapidly, and that means Waid glossed over the fact that Wally and Linda didn't get to experience what most other parents experience. Waid didn't think about the ramifications to the characters. He may at some point, but I'm not really interested in waiting for it. I'll just get my Wally fix in the JLA.

I think you're obsessing way too much over this. I would be shocked if it's ever even mentioned.

[horatio616]

I think you're obsessing way too much over this. I would be shocked if it's ever even mentioned.

I guess it's just a dad thing. You never hear parents say, "my kids have grown up too slowly!"

[conorkilpatrick]

I guess it's just a dad thing. You never hear parents say, "my kids have grown up too slowly!"

Unless you really need them to help you fight crime.

[labor_days]

don't expect it to be 52, i just expect it to be good.... and it's not (in most cases)
Quoted for the truth.

It's becoming increasingly frustrating reading Countdown every week. Either we don't get enough pages to develop interesting plotlines or we get too many pages of Jimmy Olsen & Holly. This wouldn't be so bad if the book felt like it was going somewhere plot wise w/r/t to the lesser characters.

[horatio616]

Child endangerment. That's another issue.

[k33k3r]

please remember it's a comic and not real. they can get away with whatever they want... I mean there isn't anyone out there able to fly either and if there was i'm sure the government(s) wouldn't be to happy about an unidentified flying objects all over the place....

[horatio616]

please remember it's a comic and not real. they can get away with whatever they want... I mean there isn't anyone out there able to fly either and if there was i'm sure the government(s) wouldn't be to happy about an unidentified flying objects all over the place....

Yes, and Wally could get married to two more women, but that's not something the reader is going to relate to. You put kids in a story to make it relatable to parents. If you remove all the things that parents can relate to, then there's no point in having them in the story at all.

[k33k3r]

or you put them in, in hopes of getting kids to read the book....

[bmh]

Not sure if anybody else was reading the Black Canary miniseries, but it was overall, pretty good. It wasn't anything groundbreaking, but for me, they were fun reads.

Issue #4 came out Wednesday and concluded the miniseries in a pretty good way. B

[horatio616]

or you put them in, in hopes of getting kids to read the book....

...on the heels of two crossovers, Infinite Crisis and The Lightning Saga, leading into yet another one, Final Crisis, and starting with issue #121, which was interrupted for a year by another series. I don't see that happening.

DC needs a reboot... again!

[k33k3r]

i'm just saying... i'm newer to the DCU so don't quote me if i'm way off

It seems like DC uses these crisis to reboot and do it so regularly on purpose.

[labor_days]

Ugh. I thought the Black Canary mini was awful. The first issue was issue alright, the second a little worse, the third terrible, the finale abysmal. Beside the illogical errors, inconsistent art, ham-fisted storytelling and routine plottting; the mini gave us no insight whatsoever into Black Canary & Ollie's relationship.

If anything it made Ollie look like an asshole and Dinah like a irrational harpy.

[pkbear]

..... illogical errors, inconsistent art.

I was distracted by the ring. It seemed to be HUGE in some frames, like she could wear it for a tiara. And when she tosses it in the trash, it's alone. But when she takes it out, it's magically inside the box. Sloppy.

[horatio616]

Ugh. I thought the Black Canary mini was awful. The first issue was issue alright, the second a little worse, the third terrible, the finale abysmal. Beside the illogical errors, inconsistent art, ham-fisted storytelling and routine plottting; the mini gave us no insight whatsoever into Black Canary & Ollie's relationship.

If anything it made Ollie look like an asshole and Dinah like a irrational harpy.

Gail Simone made BC one of my favorite characters. She really shined in Birds of Prey but since she joined the JLA she's been relegated to the background. I hope she's not thrust further from the spotlight once she gets married. It's a shame what has happened to Jessica Jones, who was at one time Marvel's strongest female character.

[bmh]

I had fun with the series. Call me crazy, thats just my opinion.


Also so far read Booster Gold #1, Countdown, and Friendly Neighborhood Spidey (forgot what number).

I loved Booster Gold.

Really liked Countdown

Really liked Spidey's interaction with Jameson in FNSM.

[labor_days]

I was distracted by the ring. It seemed to be HUGE in some frames, like she could wear it for a tiara. And when she tosses it in the trash, it's alone. But when she takes it out, it's magically inside the box. Sloppy.

Some of the panels in Black Canary didn't even make sense.

http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/9/8/16/f_bcoffensivem_a813000.png

What the hell am I looking at?

[fred]

some people prefer jelly, I prefer syrup

[jaflanagan]

Gail Simone made BC one of my favorite characters. She really shined in Birds of Prey but since she joined the JLA she's been relegated to the background.

She's the leader of the JLA. I mean, that's not really background. It's just a team book. She can't really support a solo book, so making her the leader of the biggest team in the DCU is really about as much as they can do for her.

Now, Meltzer's....pacing might make that seem like she's not getting enough play, but what more do you want?

[horatio616]

Some of the panels in Black Canary didn't even make sense.

http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/9/8/16/f_bcoffensivem_a813000.png

What the hell am I looking at?

Why is Black Canary beating the hell out of the cast of Johnny Quest???

[keithm]

It's really ironic what's happened to Black Canary. Gail took her and made her one the most interesting, strongest female characters in the DCU, and she did such a good job that the powers that be took the character from her to give her a more prominent role in the DCU. The problem is that no one seems to now how to write her in a compelling way. All they can do is comment on how strong she is, and then shove her into the background. (See JLA #12) It's kinda sad. Give it a few years and no one will care about Dinah anymore.

[pkbear]

Why is Black Canary beating the hell out of the cast of Johnny Quest???


BAR HAR HAR HAR HAR!!!

[horatio616]

She's the leader of the JLA. I mean, that's not really background. It's just a team book. She can't really support a solo book, so making her the leader of the biggest team in the DCU is really about as much as they can do for her.

Now, Meltzer's....pacing might make that seem like she's not getting enough play, but what more do you want?

Give her a personality maybe? And telling Red Arrow how awesome he is and how proud everybody is doesn't count. I guess when you've got a big dish like the JLA and you sprinkle in a dash of JSA and a touch of Legion with some Red Tornado garnish and a side of Hawkgirl and Red Arrow screwing, you're not going to taste much Black Canary...

I've got my fingers crossed for McDuffie!

I'm such a whiner today. From now until closing, I will be utterly pleasant. The Anti-Penance, if you will. I wear my spikes on the outside, and they're made of flowers!

[keithm]

She's the leader of the JLA. I mean, that's not really background. It's just a team book. She can't really support a solo book, so making her the leader of the biggest team in the DCU is really about as much as they can do for her.

Having a few panels of either captions or dialogue about how great she is, and then not seeing her for the rest of the issue isn't exactly prominent.

I seriously doubt that her Chairmanship lasts past the first roster change.

Also, she may not work as a solo character, but she did pretty damn well in BOP. They should've just let her be where she was.

[keithm]

I've got my fingers crossed for McDuffie!




Because his Fantastic Four run has been so good...:rolleyes:

[conorkilpatrick]

Some of the panels in Black Canary didn't even make sense.

What the hell am I looking at?

Black Canary kicking someone with her left leg while punching someone with her right arm. What's the problem? It's a pretty standard superhero attack pose.

[conorkilpatrick]

Gail Simone made BC one of my favorite characters. She really shined in Birds of Prey but since she joined the JLA she's been relegated to the background.

I'm going to have to disagree here. Gail Simone didn't do a whole lot with Black Canary besides throw her into a non-sensical I've-Suddenly-Got-An-Adopted-Assassin-Daughter storyline which was not good. All the work in making Black Canary a badass in Birds of Prey was done by Chuck Dixon.

Child endangerment. That's another issue.

You're reaching for reasons to bash the book - to the point of ridiculousness - now.

[senoj1]

I am just not interested in Black Canary.

[horatio616]

I'm going to have to disagree here. Gail Simone didn't do a whole lot with Black Canary besides throw her into a non-sensical I've-Suddenly-Got-An-Adopted-Assassin-Daughter storyline which was not good. All the work in making Black Canary a badass in Birds of Prey was done by Chuck Dixon.

Not strictly in as far as her background goes, but the dialogue that she wrote for the three main characters was great. If not for Simone's run on BoP, BC wouldn't have had the cred or fanfare to make into this latest incarnation of the JLA. If I weren't in Anti-Penance mode, I'd say my complaint with Gail Simone's writing is that her dialogue is excellent while her plotting can get a bit kooky.

Haven't read Chuck Dixon's BoP, but I'd love to get ahold of the ones that Gary Frank drew.

[horatio616]

I'm going to have to disagree here. Gail Simone didn't do a whole lot with Black Canary besides throw her into a non-sensical I've-Suddenly-Got-An-Adopted-Assassin-Daughter storyline which was not good. All the work in making Black Canary a badass in Birds of Prey was done by Chuck Dixon.



You're reaching for reasons to bash the book - to the point of ridiculousness - now.

Just speaking for the masses. The reaction to this book on this board have been mostly lukewarm. I'd say most people are pretty disappointed with it.

[horatio616]

Because his Fantastic Four run has been so good...:rolleyes:

But his work on JL and JLU trumps that.

[labor_days]

Black Canary kicking someone with her left leg while punching someone with her right arm. What's the problem? It's a pretty standard superhero attack pose.
Look at her other leg though. Can she fly now?

If one can cry foul over Huntress's crotch while doing a high kick, then I think the ass popping and awkwardness of that BC pose should be obvious.

[conorkilpatrick]

Just speaking for the masses. The reaction to this book on this board have been mostly lukewarm. I'd say most people are pretty disappointed with it.

That's fine, just criticize it on its merits or lack therof. Dog piling with things like child endangerment weakens your other points.

[conorkilpatrick]

Look at her other leg though. Can she fly now?

If one can cry foul over Huntress's crotch while doing a high kick, then I think the ass popping and awkwardness of that BC pose should be obvious.

Looks like she's jumping to me. I have no problem with the panel.

[conorkilpatrick]

Not strictly in as far as her background goes, but the dialogue that she wrote for the three main characters was great. If not for Simone's run on BoP, BC wouldn't have had the cred or fanfare to make into this latest incarnation of the JLA. .

I don't believe that Birds of Prey is anywhere near popular enough to enact change in DC's flagship book. It was more a combination of Black Canary being one of the canonical founding memeber of the team and it being long past time that she was chairperson and it dovetailed nicely with Powergirl being the JSA chairperson. I really don't think it has anything to do with Gail Simone or Birds of Prey.

[labor_days]

I gotta agree with ya, Conor. It just seemed like BC and PG's time had come for those respective teams. Both were on smaller teams in the past and had more than proven themselves during that time. A good transition for them both.

(I need to get the Simone BoP issues. I've only skimmed a few but Spy Smasher ruled mightily.)

[mikegraham6]

But his work on JL and JLU trumps that.

see i don't understand giving McDuffie credit for that. Do you know how many people go into making a sucessful tv show? sure JLU was good, but McDuffie's work in comics so far has been abismal and i'm judging by this that his JLA run will equally suck.

[conorkilpatrick]

McDuffie's work in comics so far has been abismal and i'm judging by this that his JLA run will equally suck.

He's written a lot. How much of his have you read?

Regular writer

* "Overture." Marvel Comics Presents #19 (Marvel Comics, May 1989) - (1st Damage Control appearance)
* Damage Control #1-4 (Marvel Comics, May 1989-August 1989) - (limited series)
* The Sensational She-Hulk in Ceremony #1-2 (Marvel Comics, 1989) - (limited series)
* Captain Marvel (vol. 3) #1 (Marvel Comics, November 1989) - (one-shot)
* Avengers Spotlight #26-29 (Marvel Comics, December 1989-February 1990) - (Acts of Vengeance story)
* Damage Control (vol. 2) #1-4 (Marvel Comics, December 1989-February 1990) - (limited series)
* The Amazing Spider-Man: Children Special #1-3 (Marvel Comics [Canada], 1990)
* Deathlok #1-4 (Marvel Comics, July 1990-October 1990) - (limited series)
* Monster in My Pocket #1-4 (Harvey Comics, May 1991-September 1991) - (script)
* Damage Control (vol. 3) #1-4 (Marvel Comics, June 1991-September 1991) - (limited series)
* Prince: Alter Ego (DC Comics [Piranha Music, 1991) - (one-shot)
* Deathlok (vol. 2) #1-5 (Marvel Comics, July 1991-November 1991)
* Double Dragon #1-4 (Marvel Comics, July 1991-October 1991)
* Deathlok (vol. 2) #11-16 (Marvel Comics, May 1992-October 1992)
* Deathlok Annual #1 (Marvel Comics, 1992)
* "Rest and Sweet Glory." Marvel Comics Presents #113-118 (Marvel Comics, 1992) - (Giant-Man II story)
* The Demon #26-29 (DC Comics, August 1992-November 1992)
* Back to the Future: Forward to the Future #1-3 (Harvey Comics, October 1992-January 1993)
* Blood Syndicate #1-4 (Milestone Comics, April 1993-July 1993)
* Hardware #1-8 (DC Comics [Milestone], April 1993-October 1993)
* Hardware #10-19 (DC Comics [Milestone], December 1993-September 1994)
* Icon #1-10 (DC Comics [Milestone], May 1993-February 1994)
* Icon #13 (DC Comics [Milestone], May 1994)
* Icon #15-17 (DC Comics [Milestone], July 1994-September 1994)
* Icon #19-31 (DC Comics [Milestone], November 1994-November 1995)
* Icon #34-36 (DC Comics [Milestone], February 1994-April 1996)
* Icon #38-42 (DC Comics [Milestone], October 1996-February 1997)
* Static #1-4 (DC Comics [Milestone], June 1993-September 1993)
* Shadow Cabinet #0 (DC Comics [Milestone], January 1994) - (co-writer)
* Captain Marvel (vol. 2) #2 (Marvel Comics, February 1994) - (one-shot)
* Worlds Collide #1 (DC Comics [Milestone], July 1994) - (one-shot)
* Hardware #29-32 (DC Comics [Milestone], July 1995-October 1995)
* X-O Manowar #17 (Acclaim Comics, February 1998)
* X-O Manowar #19-21 (Acclaim Comics, April 1998-June 1998)
* Sins of Youth: Kid Flash/Impulse #1 (DC Comics, May 2000) - (one-shot)
* Static Shock! Rebirth of the Cool #1-4 (DC Comics [Milestone], January 2001-September 2001)
* Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight #156-158 (DC Comics, August 2002-October 2002)
* Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight #164-167 (DC Comics, April 2003-July 2003)
* Fantastic Four Special #1 (Marvel Comics, February 2006) - (one-shot)
* Beyond! #1-6 (Marvel Comics, July 2006-December 2006) - (limited series)
* Fantastic Four #542- (Marvel Comics, 2007-?)

Fill-in writer

* "Fall Guy." Solo Avengers #13 (Marvel Comics, December 1988) - (Wonder Man story; co-writer)
* Clive Barker's Hellraiser #2 (Marvel Comics [Epic], 1989)
* St. George #8 (Marvel Comics [Epic], August 1989)
* Iron Man #251-252 (Marvel Comics, December 1989-January 1990)
* Power Pack #55 (Marvel Comics, April 1990)
* Avengers Annual #19 (Marvel Comics, 1990)
* Avengers West Coast Annual #5 (Marvel Comics, 1990)
* Iron Man Annual #11 (Marvel Comics, 1990)
* "Test Run." Marvel Comics Presents #62 (Marvel Comics, November 1990) - (Deathlok story; co-writer)
* "Shadow of a Doubt." Marvel Super-Heroes (vol. 3) #4 (Marvel Comics, December 1990) - (Black Knight story; co-writer)
* Clive Barker's Hellraiser #7-10 (Marvel Comics [Epic], 1991)
* "Cupid's Arrow." Marvel Super-Heroes (vol. 3) #9 (Marvel Comics, April 1992) - (Avengers West Coast/Hercules story)
* Clive Barker's Hellraiser #15 (Marvel Comics [Epic], 1992)
* "Not to Touch the Earth." Marvel Super-Heroes (vol. 3) #11 (Marvel Comics, October 1992) - (Giant-Man II story; co-writer)
* "Cupid's Error." Marvel Super-Heroes (vol. 3) #12 (Marvel Comics, January 1993) - (Falcon story; co-writer)
* Hardware #25 (DC Comics [Milestone], March 1995)
* "Communications Error." JLA Showcase 80-Page Giant #1 (DC Comics, February 1993)
* Static #14 (DC Comics [Milestone], August 1994)
* Blood Syndicate #35 (DC Comics [Milestone], February 1996)
* Impulse #60 (DC Comics, May 2000)
* "Never Say Die." Batman: Gotham Knights #27 (DC Comics, May 2002)

[horatio616]

That's fine, just criticize it on its merits or lack therof. Dog piling with things like child endangerment weakens your other points.

Child endangerment is probably something people might have a problem with. It's valid.

[mikegraham6]

He's written a lot. How much of his have you read?

Conor, once again you have humbled me with your facts!

i've only read his FF run, but in my defence, that did suck balls:D

[conorkilpatrick]

Child endangerment is probably something people might have a problem with. It's valid.

Not in comics, no it's not. Dick Grayson was 8 when he became Robin. No one is screaming child endangerment about All Star Batman & Robin. Nor with the Teen Titans, who are all children.

[labor_days]

Don't forget all the kids in Young Justice traveling the galaxy and fighting Darkseid.

[bmh]

I just read JLA #12. I feel the same way about it like most of the other Meltzer JLA issues. It was just ok. This one was probably one of my favorites from Meltzer, but I just don't like his writing at all. Glad he is off the book.

[labor_days]

So basically, everyone agrees that Meltzer only had one really good issue of JLA (#11), right?

[jaflanagan]

Don't forget all the kids in Young Justice traveling the galaxy and fighting Darkseid.

Runaways, Power Pack, Franklin Richards, Kitty Pryde, New X-Men, Ultimate X-Men, Legion of Superheroes, Young Justice, Invincible, Peter Parker, Superboy (dead), Supergirl, Spoiler (Dead), Captain Marvel Jr., Captain Marvel, Mary Marvel, etc. etc. etc.

[iSteve]

Great interview with Ed Brubaker about Cap #29.

CAPTAIN AMERICA IS STILL DEAD: TALKING TO ED BRUBAKER ABOUT CAP #29 (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=125596)

Newarama Interview

It’s been over five months since Captain America was shot and killed in issue #25 of his series, and…

He’s still dead.

That’s not to say that nothing’s going on in Captain America. Fanboy, please.

With a SPOILER WARNING for issue #29 given, let’s talk to writer Ed Brubaker about the issue…

[horatio616]

Runaways, Power Pack, Franklin Richards, Kitty Pryde, New X-Men, Ultimate X-Men, Legion of Superheroes, Young Justice, Invincible, Peter Parker, Superboy (dead), Supergirl, Spoiler (Dead), Captain Marvel Jr., Captain Marvel, Mary Marvel, etc. etc. etc.

I think we're kinda getting the point now! ;)

But just because everybody's doing it doesn't make it right! And the book still sucked!

[bmh]

So basically, everyone agrees that Meltzer only had one really good issue of JLA (#11), right?

Yup. I honestly didn't really enjoy any of the other issues. Maybe the first issue of the Lightning Saga was ok, but basically #11 was the only GREAT one.

[labor_days]

Did the first issue of the Lightning Saga have the Gorillas on Dinosaurs scene? If so, make that two good issues.

[bmh]

Did the first issue of the Lightning Saga have the Gorillas on Dinosaurs scene? If so, make that two good issues.

That wasn't the first issue.

[labor_days]

Okay, then make the issue where gorillas did ride dinosaurs the second good JLA issue Meltzer wrote.

[senoj1]

You don't HAVE to do anything. No one's forcing you to buy the book every week. If you want to know what's going on so you can follow the next big story, then follow it on wikipedia. If you're not enjoying Countdown, why spend 3 bucks a week (or it's like 12 bucks in canada)? The information will be available readily enough for you if you need it.

That's where the companies get you. Keep reading, just in case it might matter, so you can say, "I was there when it happened!"

Meh.

Wikipedia is so nice.

The Black Canary scene just looks like she punched a dude then jumping spin kicked the other guy. I did chuckle at how they do resemble the Jonny Quest cast. Haha.

As for the Child Endagerment maybe that could be a mini series. A look at the DC or Marvel Universes through the eyes of Child Services.

I don't really have a problem with the Flash book at all. I read it in borders.

[jimski]

He's written a lot. How much of his have you read?

Regular writer

* "Overture." Marvel Comics Presents #19 (Marvel Comics, May 1989) - (1st Damage Control appearance)
* Damage Control #1-4 (Marvel Comics, May 1989-August 1989) - (limited series)

Damage Control was one of my favorite miniseries as a kid. "Oh, this? This is a book about the insurance company that has to come and clean up after superheroes battle." When I was in eighth grade, I thought that was the funniest idea in comics, and when I try to explain the difference between Marvel and DC comics it's usually the first thing I think of.

I was about to say, "Hey, his FF run hasn't been half bad," but then I realized I'd dropped it and should keep it zipped. Oops.

Epiphany of the week, by the way: Fantastic Four as written by Grant Morrison would be the perfect union of chocolate and peanut butter. "Hey, you got your batshit crazy writer on my sci-fi adventure book!" "Hey, your sci-fi adventure book is in my batshit crazy writer!"

[jaflanagan]

Epiphany of the week, by the way: Fantastic Four as written by Grant Morrison would be the perfect union of chocolate and peanut butter. "Hey, you got your batshit crazy writer on my sci-fi adventure book!" "Hey, your sci-fi adventure book is in my batshit crazy writer!"

He did a mini series for Marvel Knights called Fantastic Four 1234. It was drawn by Jae Lee.

It was OK. Might read better now.

[hometeam790]

The newest JLA issue was good, but it wasn't great. I don't even know why I got it, but I felt compelled to get it. I got the Turner cover. I'm just tired of Ross, he's good, but I'm just tired of it, need some new blood in terms of painters over at DC.

The story like I said above was good but not great. But I only got the recent issues due to the Lightning Saga crossover with JSA, and it just hasn't been enough to keep me.

[jaflanagan]

I'm just tired of Ross, he's good, but I'm just tired of it, need some new blood in terms of painters over at DC.


I totally feel that way about Ross. But, I'm not actually that big of a fan of painted artwork.

[paper]

Hughes > Ross

By like..a whole lot. For me, really good Ross images are few and far between.

[jaflanagan]

Yeah, the first time it was like, wow, that's cool. Then the next thing happened, and it was the same (and the model for the characters were the same.) And then it was like that again, and now, 10+ years later, it's still exactly the same, and the wow's just gone out of it for me.

BUT, I understand why people like it.

[telecarlos]

Funny, while at first Ross' art seemed impressive (it is good), it tires me to see the same style over again and the fact that they look kinda Republican to me ( no offense intended). It just reminds me of an era that I personally don't feel any like nor dislike, just a vibe of "this is the way it should be". Maybe I'm not making sense but... there many current artists that just make me feel a whole lot better and connect with me and make me feel proud of living in the age we live. Yea, its a wacky world and I like it when artists styles reflect it.

Just 2 cents from someone who doesn't know much about anything...

[jimski]

Yeah, the first time it was like, wow, that's cool. Then the next thing happened, and it was the same (and the model for the characters were the same.) And then it was like that again, and now, 10+ years later, it's still exactly the same, and the wow's just gone out of it for me.

BUT, I understand why people like it.

It's really interesting to see this spontaneous outpouring. On more than one occasion-- all Suntries-related occasions, I think-- I have heard Brian Bendis say that he wanted to work with Alex Ross because it was time for him to "take it to the next level," that he did what he did, but now it was time for him to try something else. Each time, I thought, "Are you allowed to say that? Isn't everyone required to love Alex Ross unconditionally?"

I remember Marvels being a revelation in college, but now I think about the Ross "thing" and it seems just a whisper shy of Greg Land Country. (I guess that could just be called Gregland.)

[esophagus]

Yeah, the first time it was like, wow, that's cool. Then the next thing happened, and it was the same (and the model for the characters were the same.) And then it was like that again, and now, 10+ years later, it's still exactly the same, and the wow's just gone out of it for me.

BUT, I understand why people like it.Ross' work in comics has grown to be far from spectacular with his "Look, I painted the 60's characters, BUT ITS NOW" style. But I do love all of his posters.

[jaflanagan]

Even this one?

http://www.georgehernandez.com/h/aaBlog/2004/media/12-13_TheFlash.JPG

This is where it goes off the rails for me. Or Flash's twin brother, Batman?

http://www.superherostuff.com/OtherItems/Images/Batman_Alex_Ross_Poster_Poster2.gif

[jurassicalien]

Okay I agree with booster, best book of the week.

brave and the bold AMAZING as well, love that Perez, this kid is going places.

McDuffie on FF is great, I don't know what people expect from this book, it's goffy and deals with the FF as a family...that's the FF and I can't wait for his JL run.

I really liked the Flash from writing, i didn't love the art, but it was okay, the kids just looked a bit to chubby in the face, but there are chubby kids out there so whatever. A pretty good week.

And I'm face deep in Countdown and enjoying it, not loving it, but enjoying it.

[horatio616]

Funny, while at first Ross' art seemed impressive (it is good), it tires me to see the same style over again and the fact that they look kinda Republican to me ( no offense intended).


They look... smart???

[mikegraham6]

it does kind of feel like Ross is getting a bit stale, especially since he always uses the same models for his DC work. but maybe when he finally decides to paint the Marvel U again, he'll step it up a notch.


i mean Cap can't look like Batman right?

[paper]

If there's one thing I don't like about JSA, it's those Ross covers. Most of them anyway.

[k33k3r]

i mean Cap can't look like Batman right?

Why not just lose the cape and add a sheild....

[hometeam790]

If there's one thing I don't like about JSA, it's those Ross covers. Most of them anyway.

If I had a choice I'd get the Eaglesham covers, but sadly all the ones my LCS gets are the Ross ones.

[bmh]

If I had a choice I'd get the Eaglesham covers, but sadly all the ones my LCS gets are the Ross ones.

I wanted the variant of Starman eating Sloppy Joes with Superman, but my LCS wanted $30 for it.

[senoj1]

I hate how Ross's Batman just looks like some goofy guy in tights.

[esophagus]

Even this one?

http://www.georgehernandez.com/h/aaBlog/2004/media/12-13_TheFlash.JPG

This is where it goes off the rails for me. Or Flash's twin brother, Batman?

http://www.superherostuff.com/OtherItems/Images/Batman_Alex_Ross_Poster_Poster2.gifThese are why I only like the posters. There is obvious talent there, but when repeated in a comic book, you see everything melt together, and just look silly.

[horatio616]

I have to say I love his renditions of Superman and Shazam. That scene in Kingdom Come where he's hovering in the air holding those beaten superheroes/villains gave me goosebumps.

[esophagus]

I have to say I love his renditions of Superman and Shazam. That scene in Kingdom Come where he's hovering in the air holding those beaten superheroes/villains gave me goosebumps.I hate his superman. It's Lex Luthor with hair. He's pudgy and... Off. Captain Marvel I do love though.

[telecarlos]

Yeah, always same models. I guess he likes his guys on "chubby" side. Not a chance in hell he'll ever draw a lanky fellow like me. That just makes me feel rejected, boo hoo! And his ladies all sort of fit the same mold too. And I don't mean I only want anorexic models. I like my variety of body sizes and shapes so, it's not a sexist things. Me thinks he is the one who should try out some spicy, "foreign cuisine". There is beauty in everything so, branch out!

[iSteve]

I hate his superman. It's Lex Luthor with hair. He's pudgy and... Off. Captain Marvel I do love though.

I rather like his Superman. His Captain Marvel looks slightly crazy (as in psychotic) in his eyes.

[horatio616]

Yeah, always same models. I guess he likes his guys on "chubby" side. Not a chance in hell he'll ever draw a lanky fellow like me. That just makes me feel rejected, boo hoo! And his ladies all sort of fit the same mold too. And I don't mean I only want anorexic models. I like my variety of body sizes and shapes so, it's not a sexist things. Me thinks he is the one who should try out some spicy, "foreign cuisine". There is beauty in everything so, branch out!

With rare exceptions, almost all artists males and females resemble each other.

You seem to have a problem with Ross because he draws a lot of white people. Pssst... most of the Silver Age characters were white. Ross likes Silver Age stuff. He grew up on it.

[paper]

Because all white people look the same...:rolleyes:

I disagree that an artist's male and female characters usually look the same as well. This shouldn't be true of Ross, considering he's painting portraits.

[horatio616]

Because all white people look the same...:rolleyes:

I disagree that an artist's male and female characters usually look the same as well. This shouldn't be true of Ross, considering he's painting portraits.

Meaning you don't typically see varying body types in comic art. You usually only see the idealized male and female form. For much of its history, everyody in comics looked the same but with different hair.

The gentleman above seems to have a problem with Ross drawing white people to look like, well, white people. What are they supposed to look like?

I can tell the difference among the looks of his Superman and Batman and especially his Shazam. I don't see his "sameness" when drawing people to be any worse than most people in comics.

[paper]

All white people aren't chubby. They can be lanky, as the gentleman suggested.

[horatio616]

All white people aren't chubby. They can be lanky, as the gentleman suggested.

When have Superman, Batman, et al ever been lanky? His Plastic Man is lanky. So is his Sinestro.

Ross models his heroes after the 50s era body builders, who had that somewhat doughy, less-defined musculature. A George Reeves body type.

Saying that his characters look alike doesn't set him apart from most other comic artists. Do Jim Lee's Superman and Batman look significantly different from each other? Mike Mignola's Superman and Batman? McGuinness's? Benes's?


If his style is not your thing, then it's not, but you have to admit that it's different than anything anyone else is doing, or has ever done in comics. . People say his characters look alike because he draws characters cut from the same archetype. If he broadened his horizons a little, he's skilled enough to shake that label. Ross needs to branch out and try new things. On that point, telecarlos and I agree. I just don't like how he characterized Ross's characters as looking too 'Republican'.

Is he overrated? Probably. Is he good at what he does? Certainly.

[kahunablair]

...
Saying that his characters look alike doesn't set him apart from most other comic artists. Do Jim Lee's Superman and Batman look significantly different from each other? Mike Mignola's Superman and Batman? McGuinness's? Benes's?....

Let me start off by saying that I personally am a huge Ross fan. Kingdom Come is up there as one of my favorite reads, that I reread ever few months.
That being said his characters do all look alike. He uses the same person as his references for Batman, Superman, Luthor, Magog, and Shazam. The problem is, outside of some little alterations in say the chins or hair, they still look like the guy he uses.
Now comparing him to say, Mignola's or Jim Lee's Bats/Supes is kind of like comparing apples to oranges. Their art style can't be scrutinized as heavily because that's their styles. By making his art Photo Realistic, he has set his own bar pretty high.
Look at Deaodato's Tommy Lee Jones/Norman Osborn. Now, whether or not you actually like his take on Thunderbolt's doesn't matter. He uses Tommy Lee Jones as his photo reference, and has done so pretty much since he took on the book. If suddenlty he started to use Jones as a reference for another character, you'd know it.
Using Photo Refernces is not a bad thing. You just have to use it right and now that there is a difference between using it as a reference or to make a copy.

[paper]

But Kingdom Come is soooooo dry. I think I have the same problem with KC as I do with Heroes. They're both just so wooden and self-important. Just not my thang.

On that note, my copy is for sale if anybody wants it.

[jgg0610]

Now comparing him to say, Mignola's or Jim Lee's Bats/Supes is kind of like comparing apples to oranges. Their art style can't be scrutinized as heavily because that's their styles.


Why can't you scrutinize their art styles because that's their style? This is a circular argument. It's perfectly logical to scrutinize any artist style. There is not a significant difference between Jim Lee's Batman and Superman.

[jgg0610]

Child endangerment is probably something people might have a problem with. It's valid.
Conor's right on this point, you're really stretching to have a problem is this is your big argument against the book. Comics aren't the real world and you have to have a certain suspension of disbelief when reading the books.

[six-gun]

I think Ross draws characters to look too old.

[kahunablair]

Why can't you scrutinize their art styles because that's their style? This is a circular argument. It's perfectly logical to scrutinize any artist style. There is not a significant difference between Jim Lee's Batman and Superman.

It's really not circular. Ross claims his style as being photo realistic. He's a painter, whether you like it or not it's obvious when you're using the same person over and over again. It's just ten times more obvious that Luthor and Superman are modeled after the same person when it's done more "realistically".

I think Ross draws characters to look too old.

But that was perfect for his Kingdom Come work. Which is just another reason I like that book so much.

[horatio616]

Conor's right on this point, you're really stretching to have a problem is this is your big argument against the book. Comics aren't the real world and you have to have a certain suspension of disbelief when reading the books.

The big thrust of the book is parenting. If you're not making it relatable to real parenthood, such as having parents who lament the loss of being able to watch your kids grow up or who express the desire to keep their children out of danger, then you have failed. This new Flash is a failure.

[jgg0610]

Your argument was you can't scrutinize their style because that's their style. That sir is indeed a circular argument. I agree with you it does become more obvious with Ross, but it's an equally valid criticism of Lee or whoever else you want to throw in the mix. Just because he uses models and paints doesn't make criticism of him more valid of someone else who does the same thing. This is a "problem" if you want to call it that, of most comic artist. All of their males look just alike except for the costume. You pretty much have to go to the indy world and someone like Alex Robinson to find an artist that makes each of his characters unique.

[paper]

I still dislike Ross, but it does make a kind of sense to model Luthor and Superman after the same person. Quite poetic actually. But it should end there. There's no reason any Flash should be that pudgy. He does get the occasional jog session.

[jgg0610]

I still dislike Ross, but it does make a kind of sense to model Luthor and Superman after the same person. Quite poetic actually. But it should end there. There's no reason any Flash should be that pudgy. He does get the occasional jog session.
I just went back up and looked at the pic. I wouldn't exactly call him pudgy. I would say he's not on steroids to the level of Barry Bonds which when you think about it is what most superheroes look like.;)

[kahunablair]

Your argument was you can't scrutinize their style because that's their style. That sir is indeed a circular argument...

You are absolutely right. The way I phrased it was completely wrong and circular. What I meant to say, is that because of a certain style it's easier to make judgements about certain character designs.
Jim Lee's Superman looks a heck of a lot like most of the guys Jim draws.
Alex Ross's does not. So when he decides to have two characters look the same it becomes extreme obvious because of the style he choices to use.

[kahunablair]

I just went back up and looked at the pic. I wouldn't exactly call him pudgy. I would say he's not on steroids to the level of Barry Bonds which when you think about it is what most superheroes look like.;)

He makes his characters look real. Which I think is both great and his down fall. There is a reason they change comic book character's costumes when they make a live-action movie. Ross doesn't change anything, sadly that can lead to a normal looking guy in a Flash costume that looks like he stops at a McDonalds every few seconds.

[paper]

Yeah, I guess you're right. Still doesn't look like a runner though. It'd actually be kind of funny if Flash was on the fatter side. No matter how fast he runs he just can't burn off the weight.

[horatio616]

You are absolutely right. The way I phrased it was completely wrong and circular. What I meant to say, is that because of a certain style it's easier to make judgements about certain character designs.
Jim Lee's Superman looks a heck of a lot like most of the guys Jim draws.
Alex Ross's does not. So when he decides to have two characters look the same it becomes extreme obvious because of the style he choices to use.

I don't think Ross's Superman and Batman look particularly alike, especially with the masks off, particularly in Kingdom Come. I don't think that's a valid criticism of Ross's work, since, historically Bruce and Clark have been drawn by everyone, with few exceptions, to have similar facial features.

[jgg0610]

You are absolutely right. The way I phrased it was completely wrong and circular. What I meant to say, is that because of a certain style it's easier to make judgements about certain character designs.
Jim Lee's Superman looks a heck of a lot like most of the guys Jim draws.
Alex Ross's does not. So when he decides to have two characters look the same it becomes extreme obvious because of the style he choices to use.
Now I understand. I was a little confused before.

Now that we've gotten to the end of this little discussion, I've gotta say I love Ross. If I could afford his prices, I'd buy some original art. Kingdom Come is one of the best graphic novels ever.

[jgg0610]

Not to throw lighter fluid on fire but exactly what does "they look Republican" even mean?

[paper]

But I don't want the characters to look real. If Kingdom Come had been drawn in a classic style...say if Cooke drew it....I still probably wouldn't have liked it because I still dislike Waid's writing (the book reads like a rough draft) but I think the depiction of iconic characters in an iconic style behaving in a radically different way in a dystopian setting, would have been much more interesting.

[paper]

Not to throw lighter fluid on fire but exactly what does "they look Republican" even mean?

My guess would be "overweight, stuffy old white men." Which is a stereotype that really doesn't work anymore.

Ross almost has the Normal Rockwell thing going for him, and that's about as conservative an art style as you can get. Harkens all the way back to Flagg's Uncle Sam.

[kahunablair]

Now that we've gotten to the end of this little discussion, I've gotta say I love Ross. If I could afford his prices, I'd buy some original art. Kingdom Come is one of the best graphic novels ever.
Totally agree with that.

My guess would be "overweight, stuffy old white men." Which is a stereotype that really doesn't work anymore.
That would be my guess as well.

[horatio616]

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/taintedlunch/Alex_Ross_Superman_Batman_Posters.jpg

Do Batman and Superman look alike here? I suppose, but no more or less than anybody's Superman looks like their Batman.

[paper]

I agree with almost every point, except Kingdom Come is probably one of the worst graphic novels ever. And after this latest issue of Flash, I'm never reading Waid again. He goes on the list with Loeb.

[jgg0610]

I agree with almost every point, except Kingdom Come is probably one of the worst graphic novels ever. And after this latest issue of Flash, I'm never reading Waid again. He goes on the list with Loeb.
What of Loeb have you read other than Wolverine that you didn't like? His books with Tim Sale are awesome.

[horatio616]

My guess would be "overweight, stuffy old white men." Which is a stereotype that really doesn't work anymore.


Plus, this kind of thinking is why our kids are anorexic! ;)

[paper]

I actually haven't read Wolverine.

Long Halloween, Hush, Batman/Superman, and Fallen Son were enough for me.

[paper]

Plus, this kind of thinking is why our kids are anorexic! ;)

Childhood obesity is a fairly grave problem in this country too. Just saying.

[jgg0610]

I actually haven't read Wolverine.

Long Halloween, Hush, Batman/Superman, and Fallen Son were enough for me.
Man, you and I couldn't be further apart. I loved all of those. Do yourself a favor and try Daredevil Yellow a try. If you don't like that, it's official: you and Jeph Loeb don't mix.

[horatio616]

Childhood obesity is a fairly grave problem in this country too. Just saying.

Ironic, isn't it? I think we're probably of the same mind on the subject...

[paper]

Man, you and I couldn't be further apart. I loved all of those. Do yourself a favor and try Daredevil Yellow a try. If you don't like that, it's official: you and Jeph Loeb don't mix.

That could be dangerous. I love Daredevil.

I can respect those Loeb titles, and I'm sure he's a swell guy...but he just doesn't write the kind of comics I like to read.

[kahunablair]

Not to change the subject but did anyone else read Booster Gold this week?
The Infamous Chalkboard is back....

http://img32.picoodle.com/img/img32/9/8/18/f_booster1cham_2d69914.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/9/8/18/f_booster1cham_2d69914.jpg&srv=img32)

[horatio616]

Not to change the subject but did anyone else read Booster Gold this week?
The Infamous Chalkboard is back....

http://img32.picoodle.com/img/img32/9/8/18/f_booster1cham_2d69914.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/9/8/18/f_booster1cham_2d69914.jpg&srv=img32)

Did he mean Rip or "Ripped?" He didn't have time to shave because he was busy doing math and pumping iron.

And check out those gigantic ape hands!

[jgg0610]

Did he mean Rip or "Ripped?" He didn't have time to shave because he was busy doing math and pumping iron.

And check out those gigantic ape hands!
Better ape hands than rabbit feet (Ramos).

[kahunablair]

Did he mean Rip or "Ripped?" He didn't have time to shave because he was busy doing math and pumping iron.

And check out those gigantic ape hands!

But at least he doesn't look like Superman and Batman! ;)

[horatio616]

But at least he doesn't look like Superman and Batman! ;)

He looks like Booster Gold! lol I wonder if Ross's Booster Gold and Rip Hunter look alike? Probably.

[horatio616]

Rip and I both like to work out our problems on chalkboards.

On my chalkboard:

"Am I ever going to get around to writing that 'Great American Novel'?"

"Why doesn't football season hurry up and get here?"

"How did I screw up my love life so badly?"

"Why is it than I can get internet on my phone but yet Miracleman reprints aren't doable?"

"Do I drink too much coffee?"

"Why am I writing all this down on a chalkboard? Wouldn't a journal, or, better yet for a man of intellect, a PDA be better?"

[kahunablair]

Well I just brought it up because :
A) Confirmation that Darkseid is going to die?
B) Red Lanterns- Hopefully this means that the Sinestro Corp storyline will tie into Final Crisis.
C) Long Live the Real King- Referring to a character named King?
D) Don't Worry About Countdown - Focus Elsewhere! -Does that mean I can stop buying Countdown?

[horatio616]

Well I just brought it up because :
A) Confirmation that Darkseid is going to die?
B) Red Lanterns- Hopefully this means that the Sinestro Corp storyline will tie into Final Crisis.
C) Long Live the Real King- Referring to a character named King?
D) Don't Worry About Countdown - Focus Elsewhere! -Does that mean I can stop buying Countdown?

Official word from DC:

A)"Darkseid will indeed die and stay dead maybe for almost a year or maybe less or perhaps not at all. Possibly."

B)"Roy Harper will become Red Lantern because Meltzer didn't think 'Red Arrow' was quite silly enough."

C)"Chemical King plays a vital role in Final Crisis."

D)Focus on Amazon Attacks.

[horatio616]

On a serious note, some DC 'Kings':

Chemical King

King Faraday

King of Dreams from Sandman

Monarch

King James (Lebron). DC did several comics of him years ago.

A reference to Checkmate? Could Batman become its leader?

King Shark

Jack Kirby

[kwok_talk]

Hey, so not to spoil anything...wait...what, you mean you've already had your comics for 5 days now? Anyways, just to close out this thread, here's my thoughts for the week. You can think of it as something like Springer's Final Thought..except with 50% less trailer trash.

JLA #12 was my POW. While #11 was excellent, at the end of the day I really dug the delivery method of this issue. Benes' art is fantastic and for a DC newbie like me it was a great issue to get to know the cast a bit more. I've only read JLA for four issues (since Lightening Saga), so this actually has me wishing to see more from Meltzer. Grade: A

Cap #29 - Close runner up. I feel like we're over the hill now in the arc and are building up speed towards this huge clusterfoofoo of an ending. The story is getting so crazy good that I don't even care how dorky the Serpent Squad goons are. Grade: A

Countdown #37 - While Jimmy confronting Superman about his identity is nice, the way he looks doing it looks like the brattiest pre-teen ever. Digging the villian origins. Grade: C

New Xmen #41 - The search for Magik saga ended, but honestly, I'm not really even sure what happened. I am intrigued with the team enough to stay on another arc. Grade: C+

Amazons Attack #5 - Well, at least with Pete Woods, it's a pretty piece of junk. The conclusion of this issue is like where I was hoping this series would have been back in uh...say issue #2! Grade: D

[mastap]

Well I just brought it up because :
A) Confirmation that Darkseid is going to die?
B) Red Lanterns- Hopefully this means that the Sinestro Corp storyline will tie into Final Crisis.
C) Long Live the Real King- Referring to a character named King?
D) Don't Worry About Countdown - Focus Elsewhere! -Does that mean I can stop buying Countdown?

Aquaman?

10 characters

[itsbecca]

Countdown #37 - While Jimmy confronting Superman about his identity is nice, the way he looks doing it looks like the brattiest pre-teen ever. Digging the villian origins. Grade: C

I find it a little weird, sad really, that he's still wearing it at all times, even with his powers gone. In fact, blue and red would show through a white dress shirt bright as a flipping light. No wonder Jimmy figured it out Clark. Ever hear of an undershirt?

[kwok_talk]

I find it a little weird, sad really, that he's still wearing it at all times, even with his powers gone. In fact, blue and red would show through a white dress shirt bright as a flipping light. No wonder Jimmy figured it out Clark. Ever hear of an undershirt?

Ha. Well, I wish you'd point that out to the guys that you can see man-nipple under their dress shirts at work. (Also, I didn't know that Superman had his powers gone)

[conorkilpatrick]

(Also, I didn't know that Superman had his powers gone)

That's news to me as well.

[itsbecca]

What? They're back at this point? The whole Up Up and Away deal is in the past? I have no idea when countdown is happening and I've only read the first two trades of 52. Then why is he still a non-player in Countdown? Just because the narrative doesn't involve him?

[conorkilpatrick]

What? They're back at this point? The whole Up Up and Away deal is in the past? I have no idea when countdown is happening and I've only read the first two trades of 52.

It's been almost a year since he lost his powers and regained them...

Then why is he still a non-player in Countdown? Just because the narrative doesn't involve him?

I think that's probably it.

[itsbecca]

I see, I see. So One Year Later followed 52 and Countdown is... later. Although, aside from the initial "What the crap?" I realize this doesn't really change much of anything for me (yet). I will continue to read and enjoy All Star Superman.

[labor_days]

Wasn't Superman flying around in Countdown when Lightray died?

Edit: Countdown is NOW. Four issues in a month is the whole month of events in the DCU.

[esophagus]

Edit: Countdown is NOW. Four issues in a month is the whole month of events in the DCU.Really?

An Infinite Crisis happens, skip a year and its One Year Later, Go back for the 52 weeks we missed. So is Countdown happening during One Year Later, or is it one year later than One Year Later?

[conorkilpatrick]

So is Countdown happening during One Year Later, or is it one year later than One Year Later?

Countdown is happening right now. It's crossing over with just about everything currently happening in the DCU.

[esophagus]

Countdown is happening right now. It's crossing over with just about everything currently happening in the DCU.I get that it is right now, but that means that either the events of one year later were supposed to be happening somewhere in here, or as of infinite crisis the DCU was a year behind.

[conorkilpatrick]

I get that it is right now, but that means that either the events of one year later were supposed to be happening somewhere in here, or as of infinite crisis the DCU was a year behind.

A year behind what?

[esophagus]

A year behind what?Time.


Infinite Crisis happened and then everything skipped a year to One Year Later. Then we filled in the year up to One Year Later with 52. Now we are showing the aftermath of 52 with Countdown. This puts Countodwn happening at the same time as One Year Later, no?

[conorkilpatrick]

Time.

Time is a year behind itself?

Infinite Crisis happened and then everything skipped a year to One Year Later. Then we filled in the year up to One Year Later with 52. Now we are showing the aftermath of 52 with Countdown. This puts Countodwn happening at the same time as One Year Later, no?

No. Countdown is happening now. One Year Later was a year ago.

[esophagus]

Time is a year behind itself?



No. Countdown is happening now. One Year Later was a year ago.So 52 was two years ago? Oh, okay. Daaang.

[conorkilpatrick]

So 52 was two years ago?

You got it now.

[labor_days]

Yup, 52 was two years ago.

OYL dealt a bit with the 52/IC fallout. It's just that some things were not yet known at the time of OYL. This is where the 52, WW3 and associated mini's come into play to fill in the gaps. These things are happening in the past.

Countdown is right now, parallel to current events & timeframe in the DCU.

[esophagus]

Yup, 52 was two years ago.

OYL dealt a bit with the 52/IC fallout. It's just that some things were not yet known at the time of OYL. This is where the 52, WW3 and associated mini's come into play to fill in the gaps. These things are happening in the past.

Countdown is right now, parallel to current events & timeframe in the DCU.Understood the whole filling in the gaps thing. But I assumed that Countdown came right after 52, which seemed to... Not make sense. I hadn't realized OYL was filling in a gap there. I'm all set now.

[labor_days]

Wha? OYL didn't fill in any gaps. OYL storylines and character's simply moved ahead a year in the DCU. 52/WW3/Minis filled in the gaps of OYL.

Countdown did come after 52 and OYL chronically. Which is why Countdown is now. Because that stuff happened before. And Final Crisis is later. :-)

[esophagus]

Wha? OYL didn't fill in any gaps. OYL storylines and character's simply moved ahead a year in the DCU. 52/WW3/Minis filled in the gaps of OYL. What I meant was I didn't realize OYL is between 52 and Countdown.

[labor_days]

Oh yeah, OYL was actually One Year Ago at this point. Hmm...

[pkbear]

With Crisis, 52, One Year Later, Countdown....I'm surprised no one has published and maintained an actual DC timeline online.

ooops..glad I checked: http://dcu.smartmemes.com/

But I would like to see an actual line, with the events posted off it, like the way we used to diagram sentences.

[jaflanagan]

So, about the flashback/exposition in the Flash...

I mean, isn't Mark Waid better than this? I have to assume he did this with a tongue in cheek attitude, because it was easily the most obvious and ridiculous cover for exposition I've seen in comics or anywhere in a long time. It was almost like a parody of how to do expositions.

"It's been a rough year hasn't it, Wally?"

"Yes Linda...why, I can remember when it started."

"As can I, husband. Let us recount the last year for our own benefit."

"Indeed. Do you remember the time, just a month ago, when both of us where there, and have no reason to retell the story to each other?"

"I do. Let us continue explaining things to the read- er, to each other."

"Indeed."

[mikegraham6]

So, about the flashback/exposition in the Flash...

I mean, isn't Mark Waid better than this? I have to assume he did this with a tongue in cheek attitude, because it was easily the most obvious and ridiculous cover for exposition I've seen in comics or anywhere in a long time. It was almost like a parody of how to do expositions.

"It's been a rough year hasn't it, Wally?"

"Yes Linda...why, I can remember when it started."

"As can I, husband. Let us recount the last year for our own benefit."

"Indeed. Do you remember the time, just a month ago, when both of us where there, and have no reason to retell the story to each other?"

"I do. Let us continue explaining things to the read- er, to each other."

"Indeed."

that completely took me out of the story, i understand the need to recap, but really that was just sloppy. There were a few books this week that had the "lazy exposition" problem. I expect more from my comic creators than this...

[paper]

Bad enough that I'm not picking up another Flash book until the next creative time steps up to the plate.

[horatio616]

Bad enough that I'm not picking up another Flash book until the next creative time steps up to the plate.

I've been burned by the last two relaunches so I'm out of the Flash thing for awhile.

[iSteve]

I rather liked the Flash relaunch. It's nice to have Wally back as the Speedster in charge. I, like others, could probably do without the kids as super-gifted imps, but it does open story lines that may prove interesting. The jury is out as far as Acuna's art goes. I generally like him, but am not sure he's a fit for the Flash. Looking forward to the next issue.

[iSteve]

Did anyone else read Terror, Inc. #1 (Marvel Max) this week? I read it and liked it. Will probably read the rest of the miniseries.

[kahunablair]

Did anyone else read Terror, Inc. #1 (Marvel Max) this week? I read it and liked it. Will probably read the rest of the miniseries.

I picked it up. I know next to nothing about Terror, but flipped through the book on a whim. It was really interesting. I'll probably finish out the miniseries.

[six-gun]

I noticed that stuff on Flash, but it didn't bother me for whatever reason.

[conorkilpatrick]

I noticed that stuff on Flash, but it didn't bother me for whatever reason.

Me either.