D&D 4th Edition?

[darthender]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/welcome

?



?!?



Bwuh?

[poltah]

That is interesting. However I think they are going to make the game even more board-gameish, and I don't like that.

Hopefully they'll make some of the stuff a little more simple, make a better spell system, and get rid of HP.

[darthender]

If I have a complaint about D&D it's the spells-per-day aspect of the magic system. Having basically separate manapools for each spell level, and the whole "I can only have a couple of the spells I actually know on any given day" always bothered me.

The have a Spell Point variant system in the Unearthed Arcana that our groups always use.

But in the end I assume it has to do with game balance. If a Wizard had access to all the spells he knows and a flexable manapool they'd just be so much more powerfull than any other class.

That's why I like Sorcerers. Sorcerers+Spell Points=Balanced fun.

[harkon]

I'm pretty sure this has been on the books (no pun intended) for quite a while. I think in over Christmas/New Year period of 2005-2006 Wizards let a bunch of people go, including the upper levels of DnD 3.x. They also got rid of some of the positions such as that of brand manager. Soon after some people previously freelancing or working for other 3.x material were brought in to work on what was assumed to be the next edition of Dungeons and Dragons. Seems like they are on schedule for the 2008 release that I read about a while ago.

[poltah]

Well, it's probably been under developement since or even before 3.5.

I'm wondering though if they'll make so that you can still use all your 3.5 stuff, or if you have to decide if you want to convert totally into 4.0.

Personally I hope for the last part. I hope they look to M&M and True20 for some inspiration too.

[harkon]

Well one of the guys I suspect is working on the project is Mike Mearls, whom is well versed in d20 variants. He did a lot (I daresay all the mechanics work) for Iron Heroes.

[darthender]

Personally I hope for the last part.Well I don't. Nobody likes having 30 of your books suddenly becoming useless to you.

[denmmurray]

That's actually really awesome...I've been looking for a reason to get into d&d...and now I have it.

I really wish I had rad people to play it with around here....


suggestion...what about a local regional thread?

[gm_wil]

Hmmm. It's either a new website...or you are right, a 4th edition. I hadn't heard anything but figured it would happen after releasing Star Wars Saga. There was a lot of discussion about the flaw with spellcasters and resting...fighting for 5 rounds (30 seconds) and then having to stop after that 30 seconds to rest for the day so spellcasters could get their spells back...and then Star Wars Saga doing things with swift actions and simplifying combat by not adding extra attacks per levels, but increasing the damage done per levels to eliminate taking 6 attacks to make 6 rolls, so now you'd make 1 attack with a bonus to damage based on your level...

Interesting...

thanks fo the heads up

(have a good weekend everyone)

-

[-mk-]

Ogres? I got an ogre-slaying knife - it's got a +9 against ogres. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zng5kRle4FA)

[saqibnk]

That's actually really awesome...I've been looking for a reason to get into d&d...and now I have it.

I really wish I had rad people to play it with around here....


suggestion...what about a local regional thread?

totally with you there...i've never played but really want to and the chances of someone in my town wanting to play is slim to none

[poltah]

Well I don't. Nobody likes having 30 of your books suddenly becoming useless to you.

There's not 30 D&D books out there worth buying.

By the way for all you new roleplayers. If you're going to begin playing roleplayin games, and you're a bunch of guys who wants to begin playing, don't play D&D.

D&D is like Microsoft. At one time it simply reached the point where THAT was what everybody was using, and now you can't get out of it again. Everybody use windows becase that's what everybody is using, not because it's the best system out there.

There are better systems than D&D. The main force D&D has is better art and A LOT of content, however most of that content is crap.

[darthender]

There's not 30 D&D books out there worth buying.That doesn't mean I don't still own 30. :p

[filch]

That doesn't mean I don't still own 30. :p

You don't have to stop playing 3.x either :)

I'd like to find some local people that play as well. It's difficult though, especially at my advancing age with peoples work scheds, family, etc... meh

And it's no good unless you have a really good DM.

[poltah]

Deserves to be mentioned again: If you're starting up for the first time, don't do D&D.
Because when you find out that there are better systems out there, it's too late and you'll be stuck in D&D forever, and ever, and ever.

[darthender]

The problem with anything that isn't D&D is you can't get anyone else to play whatever it is.

There's a bajillion other games out there that are all "niche" and if you meet two people who actually want to play the same game your lucky.

D&D is the game you can get everyone to settle on. It's nobodies favorite, but no one will stop showing up because the group decides to play it.

I have 2 separate gaming groups. I have a D&D night thats always D&D and everyone always comes, and then we have an "other" night where we switch games every year or so and who show up to play depends on what we're playing(World of Darkness, Cyberpunk, Shadowrun, etc.).

[poltah]

The problem with anything that isn't D&D is you can't get anyone else to play whatever it is.

There's a bajillion other games out there that are all "niche" and if you meet two people who actually want to play the same game your lucky.

D&D is the game you can get everyone to settle on. It's nobodies favorite, but no one will stop showing up because the group decides to play it.

I have 2 separate gaming groups. I have a D&D night thats always D&D and everyone always comes, and then we have an "other" night where we switch games every year or so and who show up to play depends on what we're playing(World of Darkness, Cyberpunk, Shadowrun, etc.).


I disagree. There are a good bunch of systems out there that let you play the same type of fantasy game as D&D, but with better rules.

There are also the niche games of course, but D&D is the thing everybody plays because it's the thing everybody plays.
That's why I'm saying, if you want to begin roleplaying a bunch of guys, go with another system.

[poltah]

The problem with anything that isn't D&D is you can't get anyone else to play whatever it is.

There's a bajillion other games out there that are all "niche" and if you meet two people who actually want to play the same game your lucky.

D&D is the game you can get everyone to settle on. It's nobodies favorite, but no one will stop showing up because the group decides to play it.

I have 2 separate gaming groups. I have a D&D night thats always D&D and everyone always comes, and then we have an "other" night where we switch games every year or so and who show up to play depends on what we're playing(World of Darkness, Cyberpunk, Shadowrun, etc.).


I disagree. There are a good bunch of systems out there that let you play the same type of fantasy game as D&D, but with better rules.

There are also the niche games of course, but D&D is the thing everybody plays because it's the thing everybody plays.
That's why I'm saying, if you want to begin roleplaying a bunch of guys, go with another system.

[tarmanydyn]

I demand more Todd Lockwood for the booklets.

I'm stoked for this, even though I primarily get my D20 fix via PC.

[harkon]

Deserves to be mentioned again: If you're starting up for the first time, don't do D&D.
Because when you find out that there are better systems out there, it's too late and you'll be stuck in D&D forever, and ever, and ever.

DnD ain't so bad. I went from Star Wars d20 Revised several years ago to GURPS to Shadowrun 3rd Ed; to Dungeon and Dragons 3.0 (Forgotten Realms) and then 3.5 when it came out; to Exalted; to Lord of the Rings (CODA); to some indie stuff; some World of Darkness; and looping around Exalted, new WoD and a personal favourite: Weapons of the Gods. Real life got in the way of things and I must say I would love to run some of the new Stars Saga Edition before playing DnD again if it is more like the new Star Wars.

[saqibnk]

DnD ain't so bad. I went from Star Wars d20 Revised several years ago to GURPS to Shadowrun 3rd Ed; to Dungeon and Dragons 3.0 (Forgotten Realms) and then 3.5 when it came out; to Exalted; to Lord of the Rings (CODA); to some indie stuff; some World of Darkness; and looping around Exalted, new WoD and a personal favourite: Weapons of the Gods. Real life got in the way of things and I must say I would love to run some of the new Stars Saga Edition before playing DnD again if it is more like the new Star Wars.

Wow...the only thing i understood from all that was Star Wars :p

[filch]

What are the top 3 systems that are not AD&D.... fantasy or otherwise.... in your opinion.

[rlnewby]

I was recently looking for a new group and found meetup.com

I found a Roleplaying group in my city and now have 2 groups.

As to DnD not being a good starter. If we were talking ADnD 2nd then I would agree. But 3.x is easy to learn. We have a 62 year old super Rad grandmother noob who after 1 session is hacking and slashing pretty well.

Yes I prefer other systems but in the end the story you are making is what really matters

[rlnewby]

What are the top 3 systems that are not AD&D.... fantasy or otherwise.... in your opinion.

I can't think of three that are still publishing. The problem is that d20 (aka the base mechanics for DnD) base system is Open licensed. So ALOT of games have switched to it.

World of Darkness and GURPs are the only 2 that still exist other than d20. Now there are a ton more out there. But separating the wheat from the chaff is a money and time consuming project.

[harkon]

What are the top 3 systems that are not AD&D.... fantasy or otherwise.... in your opinion.

Do you mean top three in terms of sales or top three that everyone else likes?

The top 3 by sales in not particular order, discounting d20 and d20 variants under the Open Gaming License (OGL), which is the successor of AD&D would probably look something like:

The (new) World of Darkness system by White Wolf, which is used to power all the main World of Darkness material such as Vampire, Mage and Werewolf; spinoffs such as Promethean and Changeling; and to a much lesser extent the Exalted line of products. You might not want to count Exalted and its set of products in there, but I am since they are similar (at least as far as they are based on dice pools of d10), made by the same company and I didn't want to mention it again in the top 3 :)

GURPS would probably be in there. I don't know many people that play it, and I know its 4th and current edition isn't as prolific as previous incarnations, but so much of GURPS material can be transported from one edition to another that I would be surprised it wasn't in the top three.

Call of Cthulhu is another venerable game, not changing that much between its 3rd and 6th editions, at least in my opinion. The supplements thus don't really go out of date. Their market is fairly niche, but their fans are fairly dedicated.

Honourable mentions include Shadowrun, which I didn't count because each edition basically involves a systems overhaul and recently the 4th edition rights went from FanPro to a new startup comprising of some FanPro staff so I don't know what is going to happen to the game. The other would be Palladium's RIFTS, which is truly a game's system so much more scary than DnD. THe rules are bad (on many levels), the writing is attrious but yet there are a set of the most hardcore fanbois of that I know. Unisystem and its Cinematic variant is also fairly popular, powering games such as The Buffy Roleplaying game, The Angel Roleplaying game (which is the better system of the two) which itself went on to power the Army of Darkness Roleplaying game.

That said, there are some awesome d20 variants that don't really count as DnD mods, since the game design, rules and the setting are changed such that you only see the similarities if your interest lies in games mechanic design: fairly nerdy stuff, but I like math and dice :) The best example is the Mutants and Masterminds, a system for running comic book superheroes. There are no levels and classes, nor hit points. Really the only thing inherited is the act of rolling a d20 and the name of some of the stats.

My personal top favourite three based purely on system design and product support (as in how many supplements are released and worth buying) while discounting setting are:

1. The (new) World of Darkness system. There are heaps of products for the basic nWoD line. In addition to the WW main products, my favourite thing about this system is that you buy the rulebook and if you want to just run human centred stories (where the player is mainly human such as in Silent Hill or Resident Evil) that is all you need. There are setting expansions but also expansions for just adding depth to the base rules, for example a book for adding more weapon types if you like having combat or my personal favourite, the Mysterious Places book, which is just a writeup of several really creepy scenarios.

2. Luke Crane's Burning Wheel/Burning Empires. This is an Indie game so you might not be able to get it, can't really describe it in a way to do it justice beyond saying it is a d6 dice pool game I think is really well designed.

3. Dread. Another indie game, it is a system for running thriller/horror games and uses a stack of Jenga blocks instead of dice! It means as the game stakes get higher, actions become riskier. The beauty of the system is that even someone that has never played a roleplaying game can understand what is going on. I think Alex and Jeff, with their acting backgrounds playing a game written by Dan would lead to truly awesome times. This game basically plays like games of make believe you had as a kid, it is amazing in its ability to make a group of adults heart rate spike. It is really only limited by the types of stories you can tell using the system.

Honourable mention goes to Weapons of the Gods, but I suspect I like it partly because I love the setting ever so much and thus overlook some of the system flaws (which I can't think of right now).

[filch]

Yah, I meant to play, not sales numbers, hence "in your opinion" :)

Thanks for the great post.

[poltah]

True20 is an excellent new system for example. Mutants & Mastermind is also a nobrainer if you want to play superheroes. If you're experienced you can play fantasy in that system too.