Blogger goes off on Didio

[horatio616]

I didn't know things were this dire for DC. Is Countdown doing that poorly?

Anyone read this?

http://occasionalsuperheroine.blogspot.com/2007/08/countdown-to-change-after-reading.html

Highlights:

I'm reminded of that skit Eddie Murphy did about Bill Cosby, where Bill calls Eddie up and tells him what is "wrong" with his act. Bill's sole interpretation of Eddie's work consists of "filth florin filth" -- that the secret of Eddie's appeal is that all he does is say dirty words. Marvel's secret to success was not that they had violence, or grit, or adult situations, or "filth florin flith." Marvel's secret to success is that their characters are, essentially, underdogs. Well-written underdogs, freaks, weirdos and outcasts. What better type of character to appeal to teenagers? Further, Marvel superheroes are not just flawed to be flawed, but have their flawedness organically built into their backstories and characterizations.

By contrast, the serious personality flaws imposed on some DC characters in Didio's regime -- such as sociopath/killer Max Lord, sociopath/killer Superboy, "bad girl" Supergirl, rapist Dr. Light, cruelly unethical Leslie Thompkins, and amoral JLA -- have been superimposed, artifically added, uneccessary. They are "filth florin filth," what DC thought Marvel did to attract readers.

Now, what Jenette Kahn & Paul Levitz understood 20 years ago was that DC was not Marvel. They didn't even want DC to be Marvel. Instead, they concentrated on how to make the company even more unique. And that produced "Watchmen," Vertigo Comics, "The Dark Knight Returns," and a lot more.


And it goes on and on...

[horatio616]

And just for completeness sake, an analysis of DCs comic sales:

http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/06/29/comics-sales-an-examination/

[labor_days]

Further, Marvel superheroes are not just flawed to be flawed, but have their flawedness organically built into their backstories and characterizations.


Word. That's why Penance is so great. His power is his flaw. No wonder it's the house of ideas. Genius.

[jimski]

I'm an avid reader of the site in question, and however it informs her opinions it is worth noting that the author's disgust at what she sees happening editorially comes not only from a reader but also a former employee.

[horatio616]

I was browsing YABS on CBR and came across it. Didn't know there was anything but business as usual going on at DC. Quite a spirited discussion going on over it.

Personally, I'm really not reading any Marvel books anymore except DD and Astonishing, which can pretty much stand alone. What I've been reading in Starlord has me interested in Annihilation.

I don't read a lot of non-Vertigo DC either, but I do WANT to. I haven't liked what's been going on in the core books like Flash and JLA. I do really like the Sinestro Corps War. It's probably the most exciting 'event' to me that the Big Two have done in awhile.

[esophagus]

I haven't finished reading this yet, but if I don't comment on this first, I doubt I'll think clearly.
3) "Stephanie will never get a trophy case."BULLCRAP. STEPHANIE DOESN'T DESERVE A TROPHY CASE. When Paul Dini, or Didio, or anyone else tells the public "We don't feel like Stephanie sohuld have a case" they aren't trying to say "WE HATE WOMEN" they are saying the obvious, BATMAN DIDN'T LIKE STEPHANIE THAT MUCH.

Jason wanted to be Robin, Batman said he wasn't ready, Jason insisted, Batman let him be Robin, eventually leading to his demise.

Stephanie wanted to be Robin, Batman said she wasn't ready, Stephanie insisted, Batman gave her a shot and took it away before she could die.

Jason has a case because Batman feels guilty. Here we have a kid that he is an absolute too, and Batman led him to his death (or so he thinks) even though he should have just told him he wasn't ready. He didn't let that happen with Stephanie. Stephanie died because she ignored what Batman had to say.

Should Stephanie get a case in Tim's place? Yes. Oh right, she did. I do agree that it is absolutely retarded that the majority of the DCU has allowed her to drop off the face of the planet. Tim rarely talks about her despite his raving of Conner, and the BOP just don't mention her. Batman moved on, good stuff. He shouldn't give her a case, but mention might be good. And by the way, not mentioning her, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GENDER.

The way she died was horrendous, why can't the feminists stick to the causes that MAKE SENSE?

[esophagus]

Okay, now that I'm done reading (and venting) I can put in my two cents. I think she is generally pretty accurate. DC is sticking to these big event books to bring up sales. It's not a half-bad idea either. If an event is well planned, and thorough, it can be great. But it shoulld NOT half to be retconned, and it should NOT need a follow up event immediately after. And if you want the book to be good for sales, you can't tie everything into it. I'm sure the logic is "If people want to fully get [Insert Event] they will need to buy all books now" but what really happens is you get people who aren't picking up the event, so they stop picking up all the titles, and you get other people who want trades later, but don't want to buy the 30 relating to it. It's a fairly substantial screw-up for DC. Another valid point she made was the "pass anything innovative to vertigo" stuff. It's so true. Marvel is Marvel, with very few imprints, so everything exists there, and a lot of it is pretty cool. People who aren't into everyday Superhero books aren't going to pick up most DC books, they will stick to a few of the vertigo books, or minx books, or any books, that won't have any effect on the DCU at all. So there's no reason for them to even think twice about picking up anything other than the title they are reading.

[jaflanagan]

One big flaw in her argument is that it never mentions Geoff Johns. Here's a guy, under DiDio's watch, who's quietly, workmanly fixing a lot of problems the DCU inherited from regimes past.

Unfortunately, I don't think this "sales slump" has anything to do with the quality of the books. I don't really know what it's about, but I give DiDio credit in that I'm more interested in the DCU now than I've ever been. But at the end of the day, he's responsible for sales, so I guess we'll see what happens. Still, this lady's got a bee in her bonnet (not my first choice of metaphor...)

[esophagus]

One big flaw in her argument is that it never mentions Geoff Johns. Here's a guy, under DiDio's watch, who's quietly, workmanly fixing a lot of problems the DCU inherited from regimes past.Truth.Unfortunately, I don't think this "sales slump" has anything to do with the quality of the books. I don't really know what it's about, but I give DiDio credit in that I'm more interested in the DCU now than I've ever been.
I say had they stopped just before countdown the DCU would be my favorite thing evaaar. There's still a lot of cool stuff going on like GA: Year One, Sinestro Corps, and JSA though.

[xyzzy]

DC is getting crushed. The last time I saw the market share, Marvel had almost twice what DC did.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=11515

[cormano]

DC is getting crushed. The last time I saw the market share, Marvel had almost twice what DC did.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=11515

Whoa. The most surprising thing about that link to me is that Dynamite has over half of Image's sales and that Image only has 4% market share. I think of Image as being way bigger than that for some reason.

[mikegraham6]

Still, this lady's got a bee in her bonnet (not my first choice of metaphor...)

sand in her vagina???

j/k:D

[horatio616]

sand in her vagina???

j/k:D

Good lord! That's very vulgar! (And also very good.)

[jaflanagan]

Good lord! That's very vulgar! (And also very good.)

But it kinda plays into her stereotype of men in comics being sexist, so I would prefer to avoid that when having this debate. C'mon people, we're better that that. Myself included.

[esophagus]

But it kinda plays into her stereotype of men in comics being sexist, so I would prefer to avoid that when having this debate. C'mon people, we're better that that. Myself included.Sand in her non-gender specific area?

[kahunablair]

I haven't had a chance to read the article yet because it's blocked here at work, but I don't get a lot of the Didio bashing. I understand that the guy has killed off a few characters, but I don't get it.
I was always a Marvel boy growing up, and I'll be damned if I'm not finding myself float over the line into DC-Ville.
The books are selling and people are actually talking about DC in a good way.

[labor_days]

Her arguments about the creative direction of DC is all over the place. And in some places erroneous.

5) Dan Didio is not Joe Quesada.

And he shouldn't have to be.

I mean, God -- Levitz sure as hell wasn't Quesada. There was a study in contrasts. And if Levitz tried to "be" Quesada he would have looked like a fool. Because Levitz is Levitz and Quesada is Quesada and that's the way it is.

Didio doesn't "pull off" a Quesada particularly effectively. And that's enough on that

What does this even mean? Honestly, what the f--- is she on about?

edit: yeah, there is no reason to insult her as a woman. that's not really necessary. come on dudes.

[esophagus]

Her arguments about the creative direction of DC is all over the place. And in some places erroneous.



What does this even mean? Honestly, what the f--- is she on about?

edit: yeah, there is no reason to insult her as a woman. that's not really necessary. come on dudes. Yeah I chose to ignore that bit. "Didio isn't Queseda". I understand this, and I won't give it anymore thought until I see Dan dress up as Joe for Halloween. What does it have to do with anything?

[jaflanagan]

I think there are pre-conceived notions about the quality and style of DC books which happen to slow sales for them. It's unfortunate, because while not everything is gold, there are plenty of good books to be had there. Certainly as many as Marvel. They just don't seem to have as many die-hards as Marvel does, who buy all books, just because they come out, or feature such and such a character.

Also, it says she was an assistant editor on Identity Crisis (one of the best things DC has done in a loooooong time.) But she badmouths it. Odd.

[mikegraham6]

But it kinda plays into her stereotype of men in comics being sexist, so I would prefer to avoid that when having this debate. C'mon people, we're better that that. Myself included.

sorry, wasn't trying to be sexist, i had just watched a bunch of south park recently and the term seemed to fit the situation:rolleyes:

[mikegraham6]

Sand in her non-gender specific area?

i hate is when i get sand in there

[labor_days]

I think there are pre-conceived notions about the quality and style of DC books which happen to slow sales for them. It's unfortunate, because while not everything is gold, there are plenty of good books to be had there.
You've hit the nail on the head.

Speaking for myself, a Marvel fan at heart; for years I assumed DC was this impenetrable world of multiple Robins', camp villains, derivative characters and confusing continuity. While I enjoyed a few DC titles over the years (Legion, Young Justice, Batman), it's only recently that I've come around to the DC side of things.

Part of that was Identity Crisis and part of it was the clarity guys like Johns brought to the DC universe. Once that barrier is broken, it's just a matter of finding good writers writing interesting stories. Which could be said of just about any company.

[esophagus]

it says she was an assistant editor on Identity Crisis (one of the best things DC has done in a loooooong time.) But she badmouths it. Odd.I think the "2) Failure to nurture Editors internally." section had something to do with it, but it just seems like BS to me.

[horatio616]

Failure to nurture Editors internally.

Now guys, Josh has already warned us about the language. Let's keep it clean.

What is it about Marvel that has their market share up? I see no noticable difference in the quality of the books. Are Cap, Spider-Man, X-Men, and the Avengers really all that more appealing than Superman, Batman, and the JLA?

[esophagus]

Now guys, Josh has already warned us about the language. Let's keep it clean.

What is it about Marvel that has their market share up? I see no noticable difference in the quality of the books. Are Cap, Spider-Man, X-Men, and the Avengers really all that more appealing than Superman, Batman, and the JLA?
Did you read the article? That was a direct quote.

On a whole I don't think so. In fact I think quite the opposite, any superhero book I read is generally out of the DCU. It's just unappealing to have everything tie into an event. I like that a lot of things in Marvel manage to stay away from them.

[jaflanagan]

Did you read the article? That was a direct quote.


He knows. He was punning. Ugh.

[paper]

Not a pun exactly, but something equally sinister and not really something you can categorize.

[esophagus]

He knows. He was punning. Ugh.Oops. I missed that.

[jimski]

Also, it says she was an assistant editor on Identity Crisis (one of the best things DC has done in a loooooong time.) But she badmouths it. Odd.

You should go back and read some of the first posts she did; she talks a lot about people coming into the office happily exclaiming things like, "The rape pages turned out really great!" I can see how it would work on somebody.