'Superman Returns'

[telecarlos]

See? That's the funny thing about movies... everyone has their own point of view.

I happened to love Sups Returns! Sure, it has moments that were a bit... dull maybe. But on the whole, I kinda like and respect what Singer was attempting to do. I liked Routh a lot. He was robotic but, then again, it was Singer's movie, not Routh's showcase so, he may be an actual actor, who knows. I do want some action in the second one thou.

Welling is cool. I haven't watched much Smallville lately, I kinda let go for a while (and got no cable). Not too into the tone of the series lately. I'm eager to see what will become of this Justice League project , cause that's what it seems to me. Will it get made? I wish it but it seemed unlikely, at least in my eyes.

Anyways, don't wanna be an armchair director here, I'll sit this one out and just let it play.

[JGG0610]

You nailed it when you said it was dull. I'm all about being respectful of what came before but I think Singer, Spacey and Routh all took it way too far. You could easily substitute Reeves and Hackman for Routh and Spacey and it wouldn't have made any difference to the movie at all. It definitely lacked action and Kate Beckinsale may be a great actress but not in this one. She lacks that charisma that the Lois Lane character needs to have. She played more like a suit than anything else.

Hopefully, if he does actually make a second Superman movie, Singer will make the same improvements from 1 to 2 that he did with the X-Men movies. If not, maybe he'll realize that he's more of a Marvel Zombie and just not cut out to do DC work.

[paper]

Just a couple things:

Spacey really wasn't doing a Hackman impression. He was a much darker Luthor.

Lois was played by Kate Bosworth, not Beckinsdale.

[itsbecca]

The part where he just beasts the kryptonite continent was epic.

Really? To me it negated any previous and future effects that kryptonite has on him. It's like telling a cripple that he could walk if just tried a little harder damnit.

[esophagus]

Really? To me it negated any previous and future effects that kryptonite has on him. It's like telling a cripple that he could walk if just tried a little harder damnit.Agreed. I tohught it was absolutely retarded. Not only does it show his powers are stronger than current DCU Supermans, but it shows that his only weakness really means nothing (even in mass amounts) if he puts a little willpower to it. "But I'm allergic to peanuts." "Not unless you belieeeeve."

[ConorKilpatrick]

Agreed. I tohught it was absolutely retarded. Not only does it show his powers are stronger than current DCU Supermans, but it shows that his only weakness really means nothing (even in mass amounts) if he puts a little willpower to it. "But I'm allergic to peanuts." "Not unless you belieeeeve."

I suppose you've never pushed through pain.

[Six Gun]

I suppose you've never pushed through pain.

I liked that part, it's something that most anyone could relate to placed on a super level.

[itsbecca]

I suppose you've never pushed through pain.

There's a difference between say... walking on a broken leg (doable) and doing pushups in a rooms full of carbon monoxide (not so doable. You're dying.) I guess if I'd liked it better I might've been swept up by the emotions, but I didn't so I wasn't and my mind was watching it analytically.

But Superman does that to me. Which is why I'm not highly anticipating this film, because I don't really get into teams and it always rubs on me the wrong way how godly and untouchable Superman and Batman are (even though I love Batman... on his own) It just always feels offbeat to me, ruins the point of an ensemble. If that's how the movie plays it as well I can say now I won't enjoy it. But I do hope for the best of course.

[esophagus]

I suppose you've never pushed through pain.Pain and sickness are two totally different things. Kryptonite doesn't give Superman a sore back, or a headache, it's like a fast acting cancer to him, it kills him, drains him. When faced with Kryptonite superman can barely move. Lifitng a continent is ridiculous. Had Superman picked up a rock and thrown it at Luthor or something small, something doable by regular human standards, I would agree. But he didn't, he achieved superhuman (past what most superhumans can do in fact) power with no powers at all.

[ConorKilpatrick]

Pain and sickness are two totally different things. Kryptonite doesn't give Superman a sore back, or a headache, it's like a fast acting cancer to him, it kills him, drains him. When faced with Kryptonite superman can barely move. Lifitng a continent is ridiculous. Had Superman picked up a rock and thrown it at Luthor or something small, something doable by regular human standards, I would agree. But he didn't, he achieved superhuman (past what most superhumans can do in fact) power with no powers at all.

Why do you say he doesn't have powers?

Superman has been poisoned by Kryptonite approximately 100,000 times since 1938 and he always pushes through in the end. Because he's Superman.

[esophagus]

Why do you say he doesn't have powers?

Superman has been poisoned by Kryptonite approximately 100,000 times since 1938 and he always pushes through in the end. Because he's Superman.But Superman always pushes through by getting past the Kryptonite. There is always a tangible cure to it. Superman finds a way to move away from the rock, Superman gets the kryptonite out of his bloodstream, etc. It may not drain him completely, but you can't deny that Kryptonite will weaken Superman plenty, especially in large amounts. If someone brings a piece of Kryptonite the size of a needle near Superman he loses his superstrength, at least a substantial portion of it. Now we have him in front of a continent sized piece of his biggest weakness, and he manages to push through and lift the entire thing. In plenty of incarnations Superman couldn't pull that off even without the Kryptonite.

[ConorKilpatrick]

But Superman always pushes through by getting past the Kryptonite. There is always a tangible cure to it. Superman finds a way to move away from the rock, Superman gets the kryptonite out of his bloodstream, etc.

Not always - sometimes he just pushes through it with his force of will.

Now we have him in front of a continent sized piece of his biggest weakness, and he manages to push through and lift the entire thing. In plenty of incarnations Superman couldn't pull that off even without the Kryptonite.

In the comics he has moved the moon and wrestled with angels so I'm not all that surprised he lifted a continent sized mass, which wasn't even that big in the first place.

[esophagus]

In the comics he has moved the moon and wrestled with angels so I'm not all that surprised he lifted a continent sized mass, which wasn't even that big in the first place.Right, in older books. Had he done it regularly it wouldn't have surprised me. Whatever, they gave him extra strength. That's not the part that I don't agree with. It's him moving it when it's laced with Kryptonite.

[ConorKilpatrick]

Right, in older books.

Older books? He wrestled an angel in Grant Morrison's JLA in 1999/2000.

[esophagus]

Older books? He wrestled an angel in Grant Morrison's JLA in 1999/2000.And now it's mid-2007. I don't mean golden age, I mean pre-crisis.

[ConorKilpatrick]

I'm really not comprehending what you're saying.

[esophagus]

After Infinite Crisis they reduced Supermans powers immensely, to make him slightly more vulnerable. But that's completely beside the point. A whole other argument.

Anyways, what I am saying.... Superman is one of the most strong heroes in the DCU, so if anyone could lift a small continent it's him. I really don't deny that. I understand that. But Green Krytponite significantly reduces Supermans powers. For a long period of time there was believed to be only a fist sized chunk of Krpytonite on the entire planet, yet it still constantly hurt Superman, proving that even small amounts of Kryptonite can be detrimental to his powers. Now, in ths movie there is Kryptonite scattered everywhere on a substantially sized landmass. Superman is rendered almost powerless, Lex's henchman can actually physically beat him up, and he doesn't really have the energy to fight back. Then, he manages to find his way to mass amounts of sunlight, and gains the strength to lift this entire island. It's not plausible, even for Superman.

[itsbecca]

After Infinite Crisis they reduced Supermans powers immensely, to make him slightly more vulnerable. But that's completely beside the point. A whole other argument.

Anyways, what I am saying.... Superman is one of the most strong heroes in the DCU, so if anyone could lift a small continent it's him. I really don't deny that. I understand that. But Green Krytponite significantly reduces Supermans powers. For a long period of time there was believed to be only a fist sized chunk of Krpytonite on the entire planet, yet it still constantly hurt Superman, proving that even small amounts of Kryptonite can be detrimental to his powers. Now, in ths movie there is Kryptonite scattered everywhere on a substantially sized landmass. Superman is rendered almost powerless, Lex's henchman can actually physically beat him up, and he doesn't really have the energy to fight back. Then, he manages to find his way to mass amounts of sunlight, and gains the strength to lift this entire island. It's not plausible, even for Superman.

Not to mention that the entire time there was a peice of kryptonite actually within his body.

Because he's Superman.

This sentence. Says it all. The trapdoor, the fail safe, the wake up at the end it was all just a dream.

Vomit.

[ConorKilpatrick]

And now it's mid-2007. I don't mean golden age, I mean pre-crisis.

After Infinite Crisis...

Ah, I understand now. "Pre-Crisis" tends to refer to Crisis on Infinite Earths, which is why I was confused.

[esophagus]

Ah, I understand now. "Pre-Crisis" tends to refer to Crisis on Infinite Earths, which is why I was confused.Ahh, sorry. Should have specified.

[ConorKilpatrick]

This sentence. Says it all. The trapdoor, the fail safe, the wake up at the end it was all just a dream.

He's the ideal - something to aspire to and inspire. Some people don't seem to like that. But we've had this debate (http://www.revision3.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7899) before. :)

[esophagus]

This sentence. Says it all. The trapdoor, the fail safe, the wake up at the end it was all just a dream.

Vomit.
Agreed completely. I enjoyed the City of Tomorrow arc of Superman so much. A world where there isn't that one man who can do anything is much more appealing.

[itsbecca]

He's the ideal - something to aspire to and inspire. Some people don't seem to like that. But we've had this debate (http://www.revision3.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7899) before. :)

Well, it has been proven I can like some superman stories. I guess this just isn't one of them.

Although, you saying that brings up another thing that offput me about this movie. Did anyone else find voyeur Superman creepy?

[esophagus]

Well, it has been proven I can like some superman stories. I guess this just isn't one of them.

Although, you saying that brings up another thing that offput me about this movie. Did anyone else find voyeur Superman creepy?Haha yeah. They did the same thing in the Smallville pilot with him and Lana. With super hearing, flight, and superspeed youre just made out to spy I guess.

[telecarlos]

I would he is acting "normal", like us, humans. Yeah, a lot of us have gone thru some situations that well, do not bring out the best in us. Doesn't mean we did something bad, just not appropriate. Shit happens.

[JGG0610]

Just a couple things:

Spacey really wasn't doing a Hackman impression. He was a much darker Luthor.

Lois was played by Kate Bosworth, not Beckinsdale.

Thanks for the correction. That's how little of a good impression she made on me that I couldn't come up with the right name.

Spacey was darker but it was still very much an homage to Gene Hackman as Lex Luthor as opposed to Lex Luthor.

[paper]

Spacey was darker but it was still very much an homage to Gene Hackman as Lex Luthor as opposed to Lex Luthor.

I just don't see it. I found their portrayals entirely different given that they're playing the same person. I'm talking about acting choice, now, not the way the filmmakers presented him (wigs, sidekick girl).

[seNoj1]

I just don't see it. I found their portrayals entirely different given that they're playing the same person. I'm talking about acting choice, now, not the way the filmmakers presented him (wigs, sidekick girl).

I saw the Hackman Luthor more witty and the Spacey Luthor more evil.

and with Superman overcoming the Kryptonite i always just saw it as like mom picks up car to save baby thing. He knew if he couldn't do it no one would and he did it.

[JGG0610]

I just don't see it. I found their portrayals entirely different given that they're playing the same person. I'm talking about acting choice, now, not the way the filmmakers presented him (wigs, sidekick girl).
I don't know that I can explain it really, but I'll try by giving an alternate example.

When Michael Rosenbaum on Smallville is Lex, it's like he's made it his own character. There's never even an inkling of a thought that Gene Hackman played this role ever. When I see Spacey do it, all I can think about is Gene Hackman in the role. Now you may be right that it's more about how the filmaker has chosen to present him but to me, it just didn't work.

If Singer does make another film, I'll probably opt out of it.

[Smaktakula]

I didn't care too much for the new Superman movie. As someone pointed out, I did think it was a little creepy and vouyeristic that he spied on Lois and Cyclops.

But I've never been that nuts about Superman. Again, I agree with the point that a virtually indestructable hero isn't that interesting. Many years ago, Stephen King wrote an essay (I believe it was printed in Batman 400) describing why he liked Batman better than Superman--if anybody can find it, it's worth reading.

I liked the second Superman movie, but beyond that, I'm hard pressed to find any Superman stories that I REALLY enjoyed. Alan Moore's "Last Superman Story" and the teamup he wrote for Swamp Thing and Supes were great. I also enjoyed John Byrne's run on "Man of Steel."

I do find interesting the theory that Superman was created by Siegel & Schuster as a Jewish response to the horrors of the growing nazi menace. I'm not sure I believe that (it's certainly possible that two young kids from Cleveland just hit on a fantastic idea), but it's fun to debate.

[Smaktakula]

In my above entry, I meant to say that there were not MANY (as opposed to "any") Supes stories that I liked.

[telecarlos]

Well, I'm a fan of Singer, whatever he puts out, I will be there. Sups... well only liked him cause Singer was directing. Would have seen it anyways, even if Rattner, Bay (the horror!) was directing. Wouldn't like it thou. X3 and Transformers were as mediocre as they come. And to think there is good, well known talent out there!

[seNoj1]

I have a good feeling that the next Superman film will be more action packed. Can't wait and hope that it is the next movie that Singer makes.

[itsbecca]

I didn't care too much for the new Superman movie. As someone pointed out, I did think it was a little creepy and vouyeristic that he spied on Lois and Cyclops.

This made me laugh. I totally had trouble getting over him as that character.

[telecarlos]

Its not like he was watching as Lois and Cyclops guy were having sex. Sups was just doing a little recon, see what's happening, you now. When you love a woman, you just do stuff that sometimes may seem devious but satisfies a need to know. I thought it was great.

[horatio616]

Its not like he was watching as Lois and Cyclops guy were having sex. Sups was just doing a little recon, see what's happening, you now. When you love a woman, you just do stuff that sometimes may seem devious but satisfies a need to know. I thought it was great.

I think he was just really checking out how nice the house was. He was relieved the guy was rich so he wouldn't have to worry about all that back child support he owes. Superman is a deadbeat dad!

[esophagus]

Its not like he was watching as Lois and Cyclops guy were having sex. Sups was just doing a little recon, see what's happening, you now. When you love a woman, you just do stuff that sometimes may seem devious but satisfies a need to know. I thought it was great.It was still a complete, and creepy, abuse of his powers.

[itsbecca]

Its not like he was watching as Lois and Cyclops guy were having sex. Sups was just doing a little recon, see what's happening, you now. When you love a woman, you just do stuff that sometimes may seem devious but satisfies a need to know. I thought it was great.

You do realize the human equivalent would be peeking through their window right?

[paper]

Am I the only one who realizes he was half-kidding?

It's creepy. But with a little tweaking...

Now, if I were writing it, I would have put Clark in the house. Or in some situation where he couldn't help but over-hear the domestic interaction between Lois and Cyclops. Maybe Lois invites him over, or maybe he stops by for some story reason. He sits down. He wants to get out of there, but Lois insists he wait a minute. They're in the other room, he can't help but hear their conversation with his super-hearing, try as he might. He gives in and looks through the wall, shakes it off, moves to leave as soon as he realizes what he's doing.

How's that?

[ConorKilpatrick]

What if we put Clark in the loft of a barn a few houses down from Lois' house and instead of using his telescopic vision he spent all his free time watching her through his telescope?

:)

[horatio616]

What if Clark hides in the closet and everything's set to music? That's a moneymaker idea right there!

[esophagus]

What if Clark hides in the closet and everything's set to music? That's a moneymaker idea right there!I can see the plot unfolding now. About a quarter of the way in Clark realizes that Jimmy is in the closet too, and they head to Canada, where gay marriage is legal.

[paper]

What if Clark is somehow injured, by Brainiac let's say, and he has to spend his days in a wheelchair in the Fortress of Solitude. Let's run with Conor's telescope idea. So he's spying on Metropolis. Then he discovers that Cyclops is planning to murder Lois and dispose of her body by locking it up in a steamer trunk and sending it off on a train as if it were her luggage? Meanwhile, Grace Kelly wants Clark to settle down and make a commitment.

[horatio616]

I can see the plot unfolding now. About a quarter of the way in Clark realizes that Jimmy is in the closet too, and they head to Canada, where gay marriage is legal.

Singer should look to R Kelly. He's a tastemaker.

Sometimes that taste is of pee, though.

[Smaktakula]

What if we put Clark in the loft of a barn a few houses down from Lois' house and instead of using his telescopic vision he spent all his free time watching her through his telescope?


Just like normal folks!

I thought Paper's idea was better than the way it played out in the flick.

Since the first movie's villains were Lex Luthor and Kumar, I can only assume that in the next flick, Braniac will be bringing Harold in for some mad villainy.

[horatio616]

Since the first movie's villains were Lex Luthor and Kumar, I can only assume that in the next flick, Braniac will be bringing Harold in for some mad villainy.

Yes, and their master plan is to turn Florida into an island so that they can make millions off the real estate. Since they've tried East Coast and West Coast land grab schemes, I would assume the gulf would be next.

[esophagus]

Singer should look to R Kelly. He's a tastemaker.

Sometimes that taste is of pee, though.That is both disgusting and hilarious.

7 o'clock in the morning and the rays from the sun wake me
God damn i love having a yellow sun.
I'm stretching and yawning in a bed that don’t belong to me
Then a voice yells “good morning darling” from the bathroom
Then he comes out and kisses me and to my surprise it's Jimmy Olsen.
Now I've got this dumb look on my face like “what have I done”?
How could I be so stupid to have been laid in to the morning sun
Must have lost the track of time, oh what was on my mind?
From the planet went to his home, didn’t plan to stay that long
Here I am quickly trying to put on my clothes
Searching for my spandex trying to get on up out the door
Then he stretched his hands in front of me
Said “You can’t go this way”
Looked at him like he was crazy
Said “Luthor wont stop me today”
I Said “I got Lois and Cyclops to peep on”
He said “Please don't do that its creepy”
“Jimmy I've gotta get goin'”
He said his 'partner' was coming from the stairs
“Shh, quiet, hurry up and get in the closet”
He said “don’t you make a sound or some ____ is going down
I said “Why don’t I just fly out through the window”
“Yes, except for one thing, we’re on the 5th floor”
Think, think… “Wait, that doesn't actually make a difference. Too late.”
And now I'm in this darkest closet trying to figure out
Just how I'm gonna get my crazy ass out this house
And he walks in and yells “I’m home”
He says “honey I'm in the room”
He walks in there with a smile on his face saying “honey I've been missing you”
He hops all over him and says “I've cooked and ran your bathwater”
I'm telling you now this boy is so good she deserves a Pullitzer
The guy’s in the bed he starts snatching his clothes off
I'm in the closet like man, what the f***, Lois is probably already getting it on
You’re not going to believe it but things get deeper as the story goes on
Next thing you know a call comes through on my cell phone
I tried my best to quickly put it on vibrate
But from the way he acted I could tell it was too late
He hopped up and said “there’s a mystery going on and I'm going to solve it”
And I'm like “Goddamn, he must be sleeping with the Riddler”
He walks in the bathroom and looks behind the door
Jimmy says “baby come back to bed”
He says “say no more”
He pulls back the shower curtain while Jimmy's biting his nails
Then he walks back to the room. Right now I'm sweating like hell
Checks under the bed
then under the dresser
He looks at the closet
I get ready to use heat vision
He walks up to the closet
He’s close up to the closet
Now he’s at the closet
Now he’s opening the closet

I didn't realize how long that song was, and how many lyrics I'd have to edit. I think that is the worst waste of time ever.

[S.SANCHEZ]

ABout the whole Krypto-continent thing...

Didnt he get a solar super charge just before tackling it? And didnt he also, bury himself so deep that there was miles of earth seperating him from the actual green rock? And, didnt he pretty much collapse immediately afterwards, causing the whole world to think he might be dead?

I really didnt have a problem with it. With all I just said, I felt they hit all the right notes for suspension of dis-belief.

Plus is looked hella cool.

[Mikegraham6]

I can see the plot unfolding now. About a quarter of the way in Clark realizes that Jimmy is in the closet too, and they head to Canada, where gay marriage is legal.

Then R. Kelly pulls out his gun!
"If Superman doesn't get outta the closet, I'm gonna shoot this *****!";)

[Mikegraham6]

so after all this superman talk, i watched the flick again yesterday (fast forwarding through all the shitty parts, the movie only lasted about 45 minutes!) and one thing we are forgetting about this whole "moving a kryptonite mountain" thing is that it wasn't pure kryptonite. it had "properties" of kryptonite, but the only REAL kryptonite was the tube that surrounded the crystal. That's how i figure he could deal with the pain. It probably hurt a hell of a lot, but he was super charged from the sun and since it wasn't real kryptonite it wasn't crippling like the real stuff.

EDIT: Oh ya, after Superman Returns, I watched Batman Begins for like the 20th time. What a great movie! it has to be the best superhero flick ever, it's also my favorite movie of all time! It got me all excited for Dark Knight!

[horatio616]

EDIT: Oh ya, after Superman Returns, I watched Batman Begins for like the 20th time. What a great movie! it has to be the best superhero flick ever, it's also my favorite movie of all time! It got me all excited for Dark Knight!

I love it too, but I always skip the first thirty minutes whenever I rewatch it.

[seNoj1]

I wouldn't skip anything on either of those movies. They are both amazing.

[Mikegraham6]

I wouldn't skip anything on either of those movies. They are both amazing.

meh, i had seen them so many times, plus i really didn't want to devote a whole afternoon to watching movies i'd already seen. Funny side note though, it's really hard to fast forward past much in Batman Begins, there's so many great scenes. i probably only skipped 3-4 of them while with Superman i skipped almost everything except the action scenes and some of the Lex Luthor scenes

[ConorKilpatrick]

so after all this superman talk, i watched the flick again yesterday (fast forwarding through all the shitty parts, the movie only lasted about 45 minutes!) and one thing we are forgetting about this whole "moving a kryptonite mountain" thing is that it wasn't pure kryptonite. it had "properties" of kryptonite, but the only REAL kryptonite was the tube that surrounded the crystal. That's how i figure he could deal with the pain. It probably hurt a hell of a lot, but he was super charged from the sun and since it wasn't real kryptonite it wasn't crippling like the real stuff.

Bingo .

[Labor_Days]

The horrible acting of Kate Bosworth in particular was more than enough to make Superman Returns a terrible movie.

[seNoj1]

The horrible acting of Kate Bosworth in particular was more than enough to make Superman Returns a terrible movie.

That is extremely harsh.

[Labor_Days]

That is extremely harsh.
She's not very good at all. The whole time she just stared wide mouthed into the camera like a braindead zombie. I could almost forgive her as eye-candy but she wasn't even nice to look at. Any scene which called for Bosworth to recite dialogue was brutal.


edit: Singer in not a particularly good film maker. Some of that is his fault, of course.

[kahunablair]

I just had a thought. I just thought of how they can turn Luthor into the murderous evil bastard he should be.
They could go the good ol' radiation poisining route. Make it so that when he gets off that island, he finds out that he's sick with cancer. All the years of messing around with Kryptonite, (keeping rocks of it in his pocket, sitting on a throne of it), have made him sick.
It's been done before in the comics, so it would work.
That way, the goofy Luthor of the movies becomes a desperate remorseless bastard. He could actually snap and blame Superman. His plans could now all revolve around killing Supes and taking out the earth in the process.

No more need for land schemes, just balls out destruction.

[Labor_Days]

I think Luthor caught the cancer from the ring he wore in one of the comics, no?

[ConorKilpatrick]

I think Luthor caught the cancer from the ring he wore in one of the comics, no?

He did. It was a great story. He had to have his hand amputated.

[kahunablair]

He did. It was a great story. He had to have his hand amputated.

Exactly my point. You could turn the goofy Luthor into a more tormented character. One in which is actually evil, and not just greedy.

[esophagus]

Exactly my point. You could turn the goofy Luthor into a more tormented character. One in which is actually evil, and not just greedy.I agree. The Luthor in the movies always seems like just some eccentric asshole. I think he has always been better when shown as an insane genius.

[itsbecca]

Exactly my point. You could turn the goofy Luthor into a more tormented character. One in which is actually evil, and not just greedy.

Can he be tormented and have a hook?

[esophagus]

Can he be tormented and have a hook?Is this the one where Superman is actually Peter Pan?

[horatio616]

I didn't love everything about the movie, but, man, when that score came on during the opening credits, I got big ol' goosebumps.

[snooganshooligan]

Not always - sometimes he just pushes through it with his force of will.

This would help explain Ye Olde Mallrats question, would he wear a kryptonite condom?
I guess the answer is yes, but it didn't kill him because his force of will
Now unfortunately Lex poked a hole in it (because he's evil), thus the kid in the movie. It's all so clear now!

[kahunablair]

I didn't love everything about the movie, but, man, when that score came on during the opening credits, I got big ol' goosebumps.

I hated the movie, but I was giddy as a school girl when the opening happened. Pure geek joy.

[paper]

For those who hate the movie, did that reaction happen instantly (did you leave the theater feeling burned) or was it a gradual thing (three months later you wake up in a cold sweat; "THIS ISN'T RIGHT!" "I thought you were getting a divorce." "No, not you! Mother****ing Superman!")

[itsbecca]

For those who hate the movie, did that reaction happen instantly (did you leave the theater feeling burned) or was it a gradual thing (three months later you wake up in a cold sweat; "THIS ISN'T RIGHT!" "I thought you were getting a divorce." "No, not you! Mother****ing Superman!")


Gradually throughout the movie. But it started around the time he started swinging around the airplane like a sling shot. Or wait no no. It was when they reached zero gravity (Which I've heard arguments that that isn't what was actually happening, but that's what I thought at the time). I'd like to think I went in there with good intentions, but I had a really really hard time with the suspension of disbeleif for this film. So things just kept racking up on the laundry list for me. In fact I have a list somewhere if I could find it...

[seNoj1]

When that score started it did the same thing to me. I was so into it from then on.

[paper]

You had problems with the airplane scene? Arguably one of the better parts of the movie. Damn, you must have really hated it. Then again, if you take issue with the suspension of disbelief and Superman's ability to tussle with a plane...that's a problem with the root of the character.

Just on the record, I don't love the movie, but I'm probably in the same camp as Mike. I like segments of it, and I appreciate what they were trying to do.

[Mikegraham6]

i don't know how anyone could have hated that airplane scene. i would argue thats one of the coolest scenes in all of the superhero movies. it was truly impressive and showed superman's abilities perfectly, plus it felt like it came right out of a comic book!

i need to hear your reasons for hating that scene becca, your the first person i've heard who disliked it (even the people i know who despised that flick admitted that scene was impressive)

[Smaktakula]

(even the people i know who despised that flick admitted that scene was impressive)

That's me. As I mentioned, I wasn't crazy about the movie, but I thought that scene was pretty cool.

[sullivan85]

I thought Routh was just creepy. They had too many scenes of him flat out stalking Lois. His Superman didn't have personality.

I wish that they would have did more with why Lex hates Supes. He seemed evil for the sake of the plot instead of being a more developed character. It's not like there wasn't enough running time in the movie!

[Labor_Days]

Such bad acting all around in the film. I expected Spacey to pick up the nearest rubber plant and start chewing. Routh was as wooden and stiff as a corpse, a handsome corpse. But a corpse none the less. And Bosworth...

[sullivan85]

All that said, I'd like to see a sequel made. Hopefully he can pull an X2 and make a better movie! Perhaps Superman can actually fight another person with superpowers?

[Mikegraham6]

All that said, I'd like to see a sequel made. Hopefully he can pull an X2 and make a better movie! Perhaps Superman can actually fight another person with superpowers?

one word: Doomsday!

[sullivan85]

one word: Doomsday!

I watched the JLU episode where he fought Doomsday in that volcano, not too long after I watched this movie. The 22min cartoon was more exciting to me! If you're going to spend $200 million, can he at least punch somebody?

[Mikegraham6]

I watched the JLU episode where he fought Doomsday in that volcano, not too long after I watched this movie. The 22min cartoon was more exciting to me! If you're going to spend $200 million, can he at least punch somebody?

i loved that episode, even though they changed a hell of a lot, i still got goosebumps watching supes take him on. Im not a big supes fan and i don't think doomsday is a great character, but when the two of them come together i absolutely love it.

how cool would it be have Superman and Doomsday brawl all across America finally to arrive in Metropolis and then kill each other. say what you will about the death of superman storyline, but the issue where he dies is really visually impressive IMO and to see that in live action would blow my mind

[Labor_Days]

You guys are asking for a Reign Of The Supermen movie? /shakes head


Yes, I am joking.

[Mikegraham6]

You guys are asking for a Reign Of The Supermen movie? /shakes head


Yes, I am joking.

nope, im asking for a death of superman movie

[esophagus]

All that said, I'd like to see a sequel made. Hopefully he can pull an X2 and make a better movie! Perhaps Superman can actually fight another person with superpowers?An X2 would mean a sequel though.

[briangilmore]

nope, im asking for a death of superman movie

Bruce Timm just made one. Heard it's ok!

[Mikegraham6]

Bruce Timm just made one. Heard it's ok!

ya, looking forward to that one too, but im talking live action!

[ConorKilpatrick]

An X2 would mean a sequel though.

Confused. :confused:

[sullivan85]

I just want Superman to stop spying on Lois at night and to throw hands with a supervillan! C'mon Singer, that's not too much to ask is it?

[ConorKilpatrick]

I just want Superman to stop spying on Lois at night and to throw hands with a supervillan! C'mon Singer, that's not too much to ask is it?

Probably not, but it would definitely be a lot less of an interesting movie.

[sullivan85]

A less interesting movie if the superhero has an actual physical altercation with a supervillan?

[ConorKilpatrick]

A less interesting movie if the superhero has an actual physical altercation with a supervillan?

If it lacks emotional depth, yes.

[sullivan85]

If it lacks emotional depth, yes.

If Singer is any good at film making (and I believe he is) there should be a way to make a movie with great story, character depty, and superpowered fist fights!

Nolan created a deep Batman AND he punched ninjas!

[Benjy77]

A less interesting movie if the superhero has an actual physical altercation with a supervillan?

Two words: Dare Devil

[seNoj1]

1 complaint with Batman Begins is that he does the Batman crouch/creepy sitdown on ledge thing a little too much.

[sullivan85]

Maybe I'm not clarifying myself....I'm not saying that super-fights is what makes a superhero movie good, I'm saying that as long as you're spending that much money on a Superman movie maybe he should fight someone.

[ConorKilpatrick]

Maybe I'm not clarifying myself....I'm not saying that super-fights is what makes a superhero movie good, I'm saying that as long as you're spending that much money on a Superman movie maybe he should fight someone.

The best Superman movie was Superman: The Movie and he didn't fight anyone there, either.

The most interesting thing about Superman is not when he punches other strong guys, it's the battle of Superman's brawn vs. Lex Luthor's brains.

[sullivan85]

Maybe if he goes up against Brainiac in the sequel we'll both be happy.

I was looking for a deeper characterization of Lex in the movie. I really liked that Luthor: Man of Steel where they made me actually understand why he doesn't like Supes.

Still, tell me you didn't like the JLU finale when Superman beats the holy hell out of Darkseid!

[ConorKilpatrick]

Still, tell me you didn't like the JLU finale when Superman beats the holy hell out of Darkseid!

Haven't seen it.

[Benjy77]

Maybe I'm not clarifying myself....I'm not saying that super-fights is what makes a superhero movie good, I'm saying that as long as you're spending that much money on a Superman movie maybe he should fight someone.

Ok, I am with you.

I think the reason it did not happen in this film was because they had to spend time reintroducing Superman and the core characters. If they threw some superpowered villain in for a fight, it would have just felt like they just threw it in. There would not have been enough time to develop the villain.

[Benjy77]

The best Superman movie was Superman: The Movie and he didn't fight anyone there, either.

I agree.

It showed Superman's greatest weakness. With all of his power he still could not save Lois.

Did you see the Donner version of Superman II?

[ConorKilpatrick]

I should clarify that it's not that I don't want to see Superman battle it out with a supervillain. It just needs to have context and meaning and emotion. I'm confident that Singer can provide all of that.

[sullivan85]

I should clarify that it's not that I don't want to see Superman battle it out with a supervillain. It just needs to have context and meaning and emotion. I'm confident that Singer can provide all of that.

That's exactly what I was trying to say! Thanks for clarifying my clarification. :)

However, I'm horrified you haven't seen that JLU episode.

[sullivan85]

One more thing, and maybe this needs it's own thread, but what is the estimated loss to the Domestic Gross Product caused by employees posting on this board instead of working?

[kahunablair]

How great of an opening would it be if it literal starts off with Superman being the crap out of some escaped experiment from Cadmus? Just a 10 minute stupid fight at the beginning. No real reason given, other then a scientist at the end of the fight thanking him for helping them "wrangle in the beast".

We'd get our action moment out of the way, and then Superman could go on to stop Luthor. After all Luthor is planning on melting the ice caps so that he can make his new land purchases in the midwest into beach front property.

[Labor_Days]

After all Luthor is planning on melting the ice caps so that he can make his new land purchases in the midwest into beach front property.

Diabolical.

(Brainiac's time has come. They need to get away from Luthor as the main baddie. He stills needs to be there, just not as the end boss.)

[kahunablair]

(Brainiac's time has come. They need to get away from Luthor as the main baddie. He stills needs to be there, just not as the end boss.)

That's Even better.
After Superman flies away after the opening fight, cut to a shot of Luthor in Anartica. He's explaining to his crew his Ice Cap melting scheme. They have to drill down to a certain level and place small nuclear bombs below the surface.
But while they are drilling they hit something. It's Brainiacs ship. Lex goes down, makes contact, forgets about the Melting ice cap scheme, and joins up with Brainiac.

You get the land scheming Luthor, the Monster fight at the beginning, and Brainiac all mixed in there within the first 25 minutes.
Where my Oscar?

[Labor_Days]

I'd watch that movie. See it's not so hard to write a script. Pfft, screenwriters.

[paper]

Send me an outline and I'll type it up. I've already decided one of my next projects will be a superhero script.

[esophagus]

Confused. :confused:He said he hoped Singer could pull off what he did for X2 with Superman. I really didn't enjoy SR though, and don't think a sequel should happen, although I know it will.

[itsbecca]

That's Even better.
After Superman flies away after the opening fight, cut to a shot of Luthor in Anartica. He's explaining to his crew his Ice Cap melting scheme. They have to drill down to a certain level and place small nuclear bombs below the surface.
But while they are drilling they hit something. It's Brainiacs ship. Lex goes down, makes contact, forgets about the Melting ice cap scheme, and joins up with Brainiac.

You get the land scheming Luthor, the Monster fight at the beginning, and Brainiac all mixed in there within the first 25 minutes.
Where my Oscar?

You just made me remember another thing I didn't like about this movie. The story itself. It had a very "Haven't we already seen this?" feel to it.

i don't know how anyone could have hated that airplane scene. i would argue thats one of the coolest scenes in all of the superhero movies. it was truly impressive and showed superman's abilities perfectly, plus it felt like it came right out of a comic book!

i need to hear your reasons for hating that scene becca, your the first person i've heard who disliked it (even the people i know who despised that flick admitted that scene was impressive)

Honestly, it's been so long I don't remember the scene very well. Like I already said I thought the zero gravity bit was very stupid, because if they reached that height they'd have much bigger problems... BUT some people said it wasn't no gravity, it was like the stall before the fall or something like that?

If I remember correctly he spins the plan around like a propellor? And I'm thinking to myself, Is that really the best way to go about that? Is that the best he could do? Isn't he Superman (that's what everyone likes to say at least). The ending made it even stupider in retrospect. Can someone get me a comparison of the weight of a small island compared to a 747? I'm taking a wild guess the latter is lighter, yet he had much less control. Ohhh right the quick super charge which makes him invunerable to the chunk of kryptonite that's inside of him. Is it at all POSSIBLE that kryptonite actually inside him mixing with his bloodstream, therefore spreading every second to every inch of his body, is even more destructive than mere presence of it in his vicinity which has been his undoing previously?

Sorry. You asked....

[esophagus]

Honestly, it's been so long I don't remember the scene very well. Like I already said I thought the zero gravity bit was very stupid, because if they reached that height they'd have much bigger problems... BUT some people said it wasn't no gravity, it was like the stall before the fall or something like that?

If I remember correctly he spins the plan around like a propellor? And I'm thinking to myself, Is that really the best way to go about that? Is that the best he could do? Isn't he Superman (that's what everyone likes to say at least). The ending made it even stupider in retrospect. Can someone get me a comparison of the weight of a small island compared to a 747? I'm taking a wild guess the latter is lighter, yet he had much less control. Ohhh right the quick super charge which makes him invunerable to the chunk of kryptonite that's inside of him. Is it at all POSSIBLE that kryptonite actually inside him mixing with his bloodstream, therefore spreading every second to every inch of his body, is even more destructive than mere presence of it in his vicinity which has been his undoing previously?

Sorry. You asked....Yeah. The spinning wasn't really him going for a propeller effect, it was him being barely able to change the path of a moving plane. But hey, at least there was no Kryptonite on board. Wait. That doesn't affect his ability to lift heavy objects, I forgot.

[ConorKilpatrick]

You just made me remember another thing I didn't like about this movie. The story itself. It had a very "Haven't we already seen this?" feel to it.

That was intentional. It was a homage to Superman: The Movie,

[itsbecca]

That was intentional. It was a homage to Superman: The Movie,

Just like the casting? I got over it pretty fast. I'm ready for something new with this character.

[horatio616]

That was intentional. It was a homage to Superman: The Movie,

That was part of the problem. It's supposed to be a sequel, but yet it uses a similar plot. I don't understand some of the choices that were made.

I thought the plane rescue was by far the best part of the movie, but the momentum generated by that scene ran out a half hour before the movie was over.

I wasn't disappointed by the movie, but I'm expecting more this time around.

Conor, when you see that Superman vs. Darkseid scene, you'll go nuts with joy. Did you see ... ah, I almost spoiled it... did you see the season 1 finale of JLU?

[Mikegraham6]

on the seaplane, lois removed the chunk of kryptonite shiv with a pair of needlenose pliers (i watched it the other day)

when supes landed on the baseball field with the plane and everyone stares in awe, then suddenly broke into applause, i got goosebumps. if it was cheesy, call me a big cheese ball, but remember these people havent seen supes in 8 years. and then, ontop of it all, he turns to lois and asks her specifically if she's okay! i loved it
Best superhero scene ever!

[itsbecca]

on the seaplane, lois removed the chunk of kryptonite shiv with a pair of needlenose pliers (i watched it the other day)


There was a small bit left in that they removed in the hospital. When they pulled that out I just put my head in my hands and sighed.

[horatio616]

Just finished listening, I liked Superman Returns! You guys are not alone!!

I have to question your objectivity on the subject, supermanfan. ;)

[GungaDin]

Just finished listening, I liked Superman Returns! You guys are not alone!!

I was about to chime in about this. I fucking love Superman Returns, more than (blasphemy, I know) the Spider-man movies. Work of genius that is, IMO.

[esophagus]

I didn't looove it, but it certainly wasn't terrible.

[horatio616]

I didn't looove it, but it certainly wasn't terrible.

I could watch that plane rescue over and over. It's a beautiful scene, particularly in HD.

[gobo]

I enjoyed Superman Returns!

[Dave Accampo]

I liked Superman Returns quite a bit. I think I was pretty vocal about thinking it was an interesting story choice. You take a very archetypal character like Superman and put him into a kind of complex story -- now he's dealing with breaking up marriages and illegitimate kids... I felt like it was very "messy," emotionally, and I like that stuff.

[Valoharth]

I loved the Superman Returns movie, however everyone else I know hates it. Also same goes with the Hulk, I freaking love that movie killer poodle and all.

Also since I haven’t posted on this thread about it, two points for the intro music.

[Charlie Blix]

I had two problems with Superman Returns.

My first problem was the use of kryptonite. I hate hate hate kryptonite Superman stories. It's just a pet peeve of mine.

My other problem was that the movie felt like it was too preachy. I know it sounds kind of stupid but I felt like the whole thing with Superman leaving and Lane writing the article about how the world didn't need Superman felt like an analogue about the need for there to be a God. I could be crazy but yeah... just what it felt like to me.

[Davetron3k]

I also loved Superman Returns. Although I'm still not crazy about Kevin Spacey as Lex Luthor. I honestly think it was (and intentionally so) the first truly post 9-11 Superhero movie. Although the Christ figure parallels got to be a bit much.

[Mikegraham6]

The airplane scene was frickin' spectacular, i also really liked Spacey's Lex Luthor. the problem? Everything in between.


.....Superstalker..... awkward....

[kahunablair]

The airplane scene was frickin' spectacular, i also really liked Spacey's Lex Luthor. the problem? Everything in between.

I also got excited during the opening credits as well.

[niceguyeddie]

I loved the Superman Returns movie, however everyone else I know hates it. Also same goes with the Hulk, I freaking love that movie killer poodle and all.

Also since I haven’t posted on this thread about it, two points for the intro music.

dig both superman returns AND hulk.
even the thomas jane punisher to a degree... it has its moments.

[Euchre0]

How in the world was Kevin Spacey not an awesome Lex Luthor? I love Gene Hackman and like his Lex Luthor, but Spacey was way more Luthor than Hackman was. It's a fact because I say so.

Also, where is this God/Jesus analogy coming from? I didn't get that at all.

[superfriend82]

How in the world was Kevin Spacey not an awesome Lex Luthor? I love Gene Hackman and like his Lex Luthor, but Spacey was way more Luthor than Hackman was. It's a fact because I say so.

Also, where is this God/Jesus analogy coming from? I didn't get that at all.

i am with you the Kevin Spacey as Lex Louther.