'Spider-Man: One More Day'

[esophagus]

Every time they try they end up sobering up and backing away from it and coming back to the status quo. They're very good at taking a clone saga or a spider-baby and saying, "Let us never speak of this again, under penalty of torture."
I guess that's where our opinions differ then. In my mind, DC shakes the status quo. Nothing is the same, and that's a good thing. The multiverse is too complicated? Here's a way to change and try and improve on it. That way it's still there. It can be referenced, and talked about, but the stories and universe can still evolve. Then there's Marvel where a story happens, they realize it was a mistake, and instead of trying to polish a diamond in the rough, they just pretend the rough was never even there. A worse way of doing things in my mind. When things like Infinite Crisis happens I get excited to see what it will change, and what will come of it. Eventually I'm excited for the next thing to see how that will reshape what I thought of Infinite Crisis the first time. When I read things like House of M... Well, I don't. Because I know in three weeks they'll say that it never happened and had no effect whatsoever on anything, which is just boooooring.

[davegraham]

The thing I like about the Marvel way of rebooting (ala pretending it never happened, which isn't really a reboot at all, but anyway) is that it leaves that little diamond out there to be mined later. Marvel did Heroes Reborn and a year later they were ignoring it ever happened, in the Avengers book. Over in Thunderbolts, Marvel revisited Heroes Reborn earth and did a story there, which I very much enjoyed. The diamonds are still out there to be found if creators want to use them. There was a Spider-baby out there they they spun into a What If, which has been the Spider-girl series.

Now what DC does with their various Crisises (Crisisi?)is pretty much the same thing. Infinite Earths got rid of the Multiverse and Infinite Crisis brought it back. Now it appears that continuity of the silver age and golden age DC stories are still relevent to the stories unfolding today.

[kahunablair]

Well it looks like the only thing coming out of One More Day is that Aunt May's alive, and MJ and Peter aren't together. That's it.
Everyone still knows that Peter is Spider-Man(except for the Initiative doubt).
Peter is still the same age.

From Dave Wacker...
Another unchanged facet of Spider-Man's life come "Brand New Day" is his constant struggle to make ends meet. "After 'Civil War,' teaching isn't really an option anymore, but Pete's always got his job as a freelance photographer to fall back on," Wacker explained. "He's not on the Bugle staff, so freelancing will always be a part of his life in one way or another. When we start the book, Pete is in need of cash. How he gets it will be a major part of our plans throughout the year."


http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=12559

[esophagus]

Well it looks like the only thing coming out of One More Day is that Aunt May's alive, and MJ and Peter aren't together. That's it.
Everyone still knows that Peter is Spider-Man(except for the Initiative doubt).
Peter is still the same age.

From Dave Wacker...


http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=12559
That sounds like crap, but it's definitely this: and a new boss at the Buglethat's going to upset me the most. No J. Jonah?

[euchre0]

that's going to upset me the most. No J. Jonah?

Oh man, that does stink! Even though I am not thrilled about the reboot, I was eagerly anticipating Peter working for Jameson again. JJJ is my 5th favorite character in all of comics...surely he will still be involved since Slott has the reputation of a humorous writer. In the right hands, Spider-Man/Jameson interactions are great.

[esophagus]

Oh man, that does stink! Even though I am not thrilled about the reboot, I was eagerly anticipating Peter working for Jameson again. JJJ is my 5th favorite character in all of comics...surely he will still be involved since Slott has the reputation of a humorous writer. In the right hands, Spider-Man/Jameson interactions are great.I'd like to see Jonah lose his job for his temper and spiral downwards into a depression. He starts getting really drunk all the time and becomes a raving lunatic, yelling at everyone in earshot about how he wouldn't have been so angry, and lost his job, if it weren't for Spidey. In turn, J. Jonah becomes one of these new supervillains they're introducing. But that's just another of many super-specific things I'd like to see happen.

[kahunablair]

I doubt Jonah is going to be gone. With Peter working as a freelancer, they'll probably just have him working under an intermediary boss. My guess it will be someone young and hip that is anti-establishment. S/He hires Parker as a way to get back at "The Man", which in this case is Jonah.

[cormano]

Well it looks like the only thing coming out of One More Day is that Aunt May's alive, and MJ and Peter aren't together. That's it.
Everyone still knows that Peter is Spider-Man(except for the Initiative doubt).
Peter is still the same age.

From Dave Wacker...


http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=12559

Dude… I haven't read the full article yet, but every piece of art on there looks great! Is that Bachalo on #555? He's done some stuff I've really liked (early Generation X) and a lot that I've not been crazy about, but this looks like a good balance between his cartoony-ness and standard comic art. Whose art is that on #552? Very McFarlane-esque, I love the first page of him swinging but the second page has some awkward looking figures.

[esophagus]

Dude… I haven't read the full article yet, but every piece of art on there looks great! Is that Bachalo on #555? He's done some stuff I've really liked (early Generation X) and a lot that I've not been crazy about, but this looks like a good balance between his cartoony-ness and standard comic art. Whose art is that on #552? Very McFarlane-esque, I love the first page of him swinging but the second page has some awkward looking figures.In that Wolverine and Spider-Man page of 555 Spider-Man looks freakishly two-dimensional. Like somebody stuck a Spidey sticker on the page. Other than that I love all of the art. Looks really good.

[cormano]

Okay, I read the article and I see a lot positive and negative aspects to what was mentioned. I'm glad that they're not doing away with the public identity yet. That was such a great moment in Civil War and we've been waiting a year and a half for it to matter and it was starting to look like they were going to "fix" it before they even used it for some good stories. It's always good to have new characters introduced, but don't you want to see what Spidey's great rogues gallery will do when they finally learn his secret identity? So, joke about the 500th Doc Ock story, but now there is a reason that there can be a new Doc Ock story.

[mikegraham6]

just finished the final issue and i wasn't as disappointed as i thought it would be. The first half was pretty ass, but the epilogue got me really excited for Brand New Day.
SPOILER-






Thanks to the reboot, we've got a Spidey supporting cast again. Im really really really glad to see the addition of Harry Osborn and Flash Thompson. the future looks bright for Amazing Spider-Man

[briangilmore]

*SPOILERS GALORE*

Fuck this. As a knee-jerk reaction, I'm ANGRY.


What the FUCK?


Why would they ruin such a great on-running story? What is the point? They could have dug themselves out of the hole without starting from scratch...if they even did...


My only hope is that eventually Peter will fuck over Mephisto once he figures shit out. If he doesn't, then whatever. Cause all said and done this is actually a really interesting storyline (if it isn't a reboot)...but the do means justify the ends?...OOOOOOOH the means...I wish they would have done it for a different reason...ANY different reason.


SHE'S OLD. FUCKING KILL HER. SHE'S LIVING EXTRA YEARS.


*Heroes season 2 spoiler* Remember when Kaito Nakamura dies and Hiro goes back and time and tries to save him, but Kaito convinces him that it's childish to not accept life for what it is and that if it is his time to die, then he should? Why couldn't Aunt May have done that for Peter? I mean that's not too much of a stretch, is it? Doctor Strange could've hooked that shit up. I mean the woman has fought in an old Iron Man suit, for God's (who theoretically DOES DEFINITELY exist in the Marvel Universe)sake!


Oh man...I've gotta digest, b/c I basically got up and went to my store at opening and brought this to work, munched on some T-Bell and started reading. I've got to give it another cause dear god...

I'll continue to pick Amazing Spidey up for the new line-up and I'm very excited to see what they do with it...as the one and only Spidey book. This could mean great things...but the means...the means....



thoughts?

[mikegraham6]

i agree with everything you said brian, but don't you think that the last few pages of the issue were interesting? it felt like a breath of fresh air after all that One More Day and Back In Black crap.

[davegraham]

I hate to be the one to ask this, but where does this fit into continuity? Did Mephisto undo outted secret identity? What about how it was covered in Avengers Initiative? Harry has an apartment in Stark Tower? Has Spidey's ID been covered up to the Mighty Avengers and SHIELD?

I guess the only way to find out is to read on.

[six-gun]

And New Avengers!?!?!?! Gahhhhh! Head Hurting!

[davegraham]

I am okay with everything (if being indifferent means being okay) except for the little trip to Stark Tower (Avengers Tower?). That is where it falls apart for me.

The tension between Spidey and MJ, at the party, was kinda fun... both of the panels.

I am considering reading Brand New Day in trade.

[gungadin]

Wow... Ummm... Just read this... Didn't care... There was a lot that was interesting in it... but it's funny how much One More Day means nothing.

But this story leaves NOTHING satisfied. How much does Spider-man and Mary Jane not EVER being married frak up this world? It essentially retconned EVERYTHING that's happened in Spider-man for the past... twenty some odd years... And it makes NO sense!

Yeah, it's interesting to see where this goes... But how do all the old stories fit when this singular thread (which, contrary to Mephisto's claim is a HUGE frakkin thread) is gone?

Angst.

And then some...

[six-gun]

What is Peter has just been transferred into a pocket universe for One New Day and the One More Day event simply doesn't happen in the regular universe

[gungadin]

What is Peter has just been transferred into a pocket universe for One New Day and the One More Day event simply doesn't happen in the regular universe

Were but that only true...

What really ires me is simple retcon theory: It's one thing to retcon an entire universe (Crisis on Infinite Earths, Infinite Crisis...) but it's another thing to retcon a SUPER important character thing that's been REALLY canon for twenty years without explaining how it totally fraks up the universe... You don't retcon a character! It makes people (me) really pissed about life. I'm pro-them breaking up the marriage, but to do it by completely retconning a Marvel staple out of existence and then treating the rest of the universe like it never had a single piece of impact on it... So ridiculous... Bull. Crap.

[briangilmore]

i agree with everything you said brian, but don't you think that the last few pages of the issue were interesting? it felt like a breath of fresh air after all that One More Day and Back In Black crap.

It is very much interesting, like I said, and I agree that it feels different. Not necessarily good different, just different. I have hope b/c I'm retarded, but I think the storyline JMS was handing was salvagable. Why completely give up when you can be respected tenfold in an effort of digging yourself out? Marvel's integrity is at stake with me for this.


To answer the stuff about New Avengers:

Theoretically, since Pete is out of the black costume now (theoretically) and is still in black costume in New Avengers. Secret Invasion and everything else that happens can pretty much be before Aunt May gets shot...cause all that stuff can easily unfold and happen within a week or so...which should give the Universe enough time for all that shit to happen that Spidey was a part of.

PLEASE tell me if I'm wrong. I'm also not 100% on this shit and that's always pissed me off.

GOD, i want to interview Bendis.

[davegraham]

What is Peter has just been transferred into a pocket universe for One New Day and the One More Day event simply doesn't happen in the regular universe

That is my thinking, I just didn't have the guts to say it. However explain Spidey's appearance in Avengers Initiative.

If this issue had at least hinted at continuity I would have been more satisfied. I don't think I care about Spider-man as much as how he fits into the Marvel Universe. So Brand New Day will either renew my interest in Spidey as a character or it will drop Amazing from my pull list.

[jimlivesay]

*SPOILERS GALORE*

I wish they would have done it for a different reason...ANY different reason.


SHE'S OLD. FUCKING KILL HER. SHE'S LIVING EXTRA YEARS.



I couldn't agree more. There was never any earthly reason for Peter to even CONSIDER Mephisto's ridiculous offer. Why would he possibly give us his marriage to Mary Jane, the love of his life-- the source of happiness in his life-- to buy Aunt May a little more time alive? She's old, she's sick all the time-- she won't live much longer, in any case. Fucking ridiculous.

Which is basically what Mary Jane told him at one point in today's issue, and his response was basically "because if she dies from this gunshot wound, it's MY FAULT." WHAT? That's his fucking reason? Why would Mary Jane want to STAY married to this sniveling twit after hearing that? That reasoning-- his willingness to even ENTERTAIN this thing-- completely blemished the character of Peter Parker in my eyes. Basically, he was made out to be a self-loathing little shit.

The only way I can see any of this nonsense being redeemed in the slightest would be for Aunt May to drop dead of old age in the first panel of the first page of the next issue. THAT would be great.

Because if she doesn't die tomorrow, she'll die next week, or next month, anyway. But having her be killed immediately would at least lend a sense of irony to the story. Although it wouldn't redeem the damage they've done to this character.

Seriously, Quesada-- if you didn't want them to be married anymore, you could have had them divorce. You didn't have to turn Peter into a sniveling twit.

[briangilmore]

That is my thinking, I just didn't have the guts to say it. However explain Spidey's appearance in Avengers Initiative.

If this issue had at least hinted at continuity I would have been more satisfied. I don't think I care about Spider-man as much as how he fits into the Marvel Universe. So Brand New Day will either renew my interest in Spidey as a character or it will drop Amazing from my pull list.

I don't think this is true. I stand behind my last comment's black suit = certain time frame and therefore in New Avengers and Initiative, he's in a time BEFORE this whole debaucle. Didn't read Initiative, though...could be wrong about the suit color.

Also, thanks for agreeing Jim. We're on the same page.

Here's where I think the story should go...not could....but it would be interesting if:

Peter figured out what he had done in this new Mephisto-altered world and somehow, without his Spider Powers (right?...) fucked over Mephisto and got back to the other world and Aunt May is gone and this whole thing teaches him the life lesson Kaito Nakamura taught hero...then we go to the same feeling we had with JMS' issue #1 of Spidey...which is really Spidey at his best - Spidey as-usual.

*sigh*

p.s. DOES he have his powers?...

[gungadin]

I don't think this is true. I stand behind my last comment's black suit = certain time frame and therefore in New Avengers and Initiative, he's in a time BEFORE this whole debaucle. Didn't read Initiative, though...could be wrong about the suit color.

Also, thanks for agreeing Jim. We're on the same page.

Here's where I think the story should go...not could....but it would be interesting if:

Peter figured out what he had done in this new Mephisto-altered world and somehow, without his Spider Powers (right?...) fucked over Mephisto and got back to the other world and Aunt May is gone and this whole thing teaches him the life lesson Kaito Nakamura taught hero...then we go to the same feeling we had with JMS' issue #1 of Spidey...which is really Spidey at his best - Spidey as-usual.

*sigh*

p.s. DOES he have his powers?...

I don't think anyone knows WHAT's going on in the Spider-man sect of the Marvel universe right now...

[jimski]

I found Peter's "fucking ridiculous" decision to be completely consistent with the way he has lived every day of his life for the last 500 issues. If it isn't uncle Ben or Captain Stacy, it's Gwen Gwen Gwen. He can't stand the guilt of Responsibility. I'm relieved to hear none of you would erase your wives, but I'm also glad not to be one of your older relatives. On a human level, I'm a little freaked by the amount of "just fucking kill her!" I've seen online. "Wife vs. Mom? That shouldn't even be hard!" Well, no, it should be the hardest thing ever, actually.

[thefreakytiki]

The first comic I ever bought was Spider-Man 283 (The first Hobgoblin). I was so enamored with the character and his stories that I never, NEVER, missed an issue of Spidey to this very day. After reading 545 (24 years straight of buying ASM every month) I have to say, this just hurts. It's not creative, it's not new, it's not unique. It just hurts.

I believe the story was a selfish act by the characters caretakers. A lazy act.

This just hurts.


the Tiki http://www.pixeljoint.com/files/icons/tiki_torches.gif

[gungadin]

The first comic I ever bought was Spider-Man 283 (The first Hobgoblin). I was so enamored with the character and his stories that I never, NEVER, missed an issue of Spidey to this very day. After reading 545 (24 years straight of buying ASM every month) I have to say, this just hurts. It's not creative, it's not new, it's not unique. It just hurts.

I believe the story was a selfish act by the characters caretakers. A lazy act.

This just hurts.


the Tiki http://www.pixeljoint.com/files/icons/tiki_torches.gif

Ummmm... Not to sound too terribly confused... But why? Is it because twenty out of those twenty four years just got erased? Because it was handled poorly...

Heck. I'm interested to know how many people just plain were okay with the marriage ending, but hated how it was handled... Weren't okay but liked the handling... Etc.

[thefreakytiki]

Ummmm... Not to sound too terribly confused... But why? Is it because twenty out of those twenty four years just got erased? Because it was handled poorly...

Heck. I'm interested to know how many people just plain were okay with the marriage ending, but hated how it was handled... Weren't okay but liked the handling... Etc.


Why? Fair question.

Because the story was a selfish act by one man who has power. Joe Q. enjoyed touting his "philosophy" on story telling to the masses. Telling us that the only reason he would approve a big dramatic change for any character is to create "many new stories" for them. Well, he unmasked Spidey (which I thought was ballsy and cool) and can you name the plethora of stories that came from it? One. Aunt May was shot... which ultimately led to Joe Q. using it to wipe out his personal dislike of Spidey's marriage. It was a selfish act on Joe Q.'s part, plain and simple.

He is the caretaker for an icon. I don't mind any form of "shaking things up" but in no way shape or form does this propel the character forward. Instead it sets him back only to rehash things we have already seen.

the Tiki http://www.pixeljoint.com/files/icons/tiki_torches.gif

[gungadin]

Why? Fair question.

Because the story was a selfish act by one man who has power. Joe Q. enjoyed touting his "philosophy" on story telling to the masses. Telling us that the only reason he would approve a big dramatic change for any character is to create "many new stories" for them. Well, he unmasked Spidey (which I thought was ballsy and cool) and can you name the plethora of stories that came from it? One. Aunt May was shot... which ultimately led to Joe Q. using it to wipe out his personal dislike of Spidey's marriage. It was a selfish act on Joe Q.'s part, plain and simple.

He is the caretaker for an icon. I don't mind any form of "shaking things up" but in no way shape or form does this propel the character forward. Instead it sets him back only to rehash things we have already seen.

the Tiki http://www.pixeljoint.com/files/icons/tiki_torches.gif

That's actually funny because that's what my once-comic-reader dad said when I explained this whole thing to him...

[thefreakytiki]

That's actually funny because that's what my once-comic-reader dad said when I explained this whole thing to him...



Smart guy. :)

the Tiki http://www.pixeljoint.com/files/icons/tiki_torches.gif

[cormano]

I am okay with everything (if being indifferent means being okay) except for the little trip to Stark Tower (Avengers Tower?). That is where it falls apart for me.


It's Osborn Tower. The sign is cut off, but when Peter is going in, you can see it's "*word ending in N* Tower."

And yeah, as Gilmore was saying, New Avengers is still waaaay behind this story in time. Also, it's been said a couple times that Brand New Day will not crossover with any other titles for at least a year, so who knows… maybe it is an alternate universe.

[cormano]

Also, it was mentioned in that interview a few pages back that his identity is still public, so my theory for now is that in this new reality, or whatever it is, he was dating MJ and she didn't know he was Spider-Man or didn't want him to reveal his identity when he did and that's why they're fighting.

Something like that.

[racemccloud]

I found Peter's "fucking ridiculous" decision to be completely consistent with the way he has lived every day of his life for the last 500 issues. If it isn't uncle Ben or Captain Stacy, it's Gwen Gwen Gwen. He can't stand the guilt of Responsibility. I'm relieved to hear none of you would erase your wives, but I'm also glad not to be one of your older relatives. On a human level, I'm a little freaked by the amount of "just fucking kill her!" I've seen online. "Wife vs. Mom? That shouldn't even be hard!" Well, no, it should be the hardest thing ever, actually.

Exactly. And of course Mary Jane chose to end the marriage, as did Peter, because they're heroes, and they're supposed to be selfless.

[gungadin]

Exactly. And of course Mary Jane chose to end the marriage, as did Peter, because they're heroes, and they're supposed to be selfless.

That was one of the things I liked... Peter's gut reaction was "no way" which was WAY different than what I thought... I thought he was gonna do a "I'll trade you this" but it was MJ who went ahead and sacrificed it... But they didn't need to retcon it out of existence... That was my problem with it... They didn't need to just get rid of twenty years... They could have just had him wake up and not be married, not unlike a divorce... They didn't have to make it not exist... That's just arrogant and short-sighted...

It's the "let's just clean the whole thing away and say HA! It never happened and hope the fans forget" thing that just makes me all RAR about it...

[racemccloud]

First of all, let's remember that "split up Peter and MJ" was a Marvel editorial edict.

Second of all, let's remember that JMS can write a good story.

I think this story, as a stand-alone story, was wonderfully tragic. Two people, meant to be together, forced to choose to be apart, or to live forever with the knowledge that A.) one of them caused a loved one to be mortally wounded, and B.) they had a chance to save this loved one's life, and chose not to.

This is legitimate dramatic storytelling. And, in my opinion, it was very well written.

Third, I think Marvel is well aware they will have a lot of continuity to answer for, as one of the writers on the "Brand New" AMS is Dan Slott. If anyone's read his work on "She-Hulk", you know that the man knows how to handle in-universe continuity, and make seemingly continuity-busting problems comic-book logical.

Fourth, I agree that bringing back a solid supporting cast is great, because that's something that was a staple of Spidey in the 60's, 70's and 80's and his been sorely missing for the last many years. Seeing Harry back is going to require some explanation of continuity (and I hope to God that explanation doesn't include the words "pocket universe".)

Fifth, the biggest problem I see in the future of this whole thing is that they have now done a story that while being retcon-ish isn't a true retcon, and the only way right now, having seen this couple have to make such a difficult, tragic decision, that this particular story can end in an emotionally positive way for the audience... Peter and MJ have to somehow find their way back to each other. Which I don't see happening, as the entire point of this was to break them apart. But then there's no way for this to have a happy ending, as the reader knows, "these two are supposed to be together!" (This could be just being done to reinforce the idea that Peter Parker's life is a series of endless mini tragedies, and that the character can never truly be allowed to be happy and can never be with MJ again as it will make him happy).

Sixth: Gwen is dead. Let her stay dead.

Seventh: Like it or not, this story did exactly what Joe Q. and Marvel wanted it to do. Of the following "icons", whose "regular" book is generating the highest level of buzz right now?
- Spider Man
- Superman
- Batman
- Wonder Woman

Does anyone care what's going on in Supes? Is there even a thread devoted to Ra's Al Ghul? (Did anyone even notice that story ended?) Does Wonder Woman have a book? Love it or hate it, we're talking Spidey and "One More Day".

Eighth: I'm entertained. I'm on board for Brand New Day. I thought this entire story was good. Thumbs up. I know I'm in the minority. Majority be damned!

[racemccloud]

It's the "let's just clean the whole thing away and say HA! It never happened and hope the fans forget" thing that just makes me all RAR about it...

I would agree with that. But see, we don't know if that's how they're going to approach it. If that IS how they approach it (and it looks like MJ is going to still be in the book, which I truly didn't expect), but if they DO try to pretend "this never happened..." THEN this story could become just a clumsy retcon...

I'm willing to see how they handle it. I don't know if they can just brush it away, because people know, the general public knows (thanks to the movies) that Peter and MJ need to be together. It would be like retconning Lois Lane out of existence. Even if DC ended the Clark/Lois marriage, she's a part of the story. People expect her to be there. Same with MJ.

I am interested enough to see where this goes, and hopefully it isn't as hackneyed as the reboot they tried to do before "Ultimate Spidey".

[itsbecca]

Does anyone care what's going on in Supes? Is there even a thread devoted to Ra's Al Ghul? (Did anyone even notice that story ended?) Does Wonder Woman have a book? Love it or hate it, we're talking Spidey and "One More Day".


Let me tell you brother, I'm pretty "Meh" on this point.

[big-doze]

Been a while since I posted, but... well, some things just must be said.

I haven't read Amazing Spider-Man #545, but I am up to speed.

As I feared when this entire... exercise began, this is the Spider-Man cosmic reboot. Now, I don't know about the rest of y'all, but the very fact that the words "Spider-Man" and "cosmic reboot" can now be used accurately in the same breath wounds me. It is, in my mind, contrary to everything that the character is.

Peter Parker, as has been said countless times, is the everyman of the superhero set. Always has been. In fact, some may say he is the archetype for that type of character in comics, one with whom we related and identified. To have his history wiped out by Me-Goddamn-phisto, for no apparent reason, staggers me.

When characters have no motivations for their actions, or when events don't progress in a logical manner, the puppet strings become visible, and the story is no longer effective. This is the work of an editorial decision, and the laziness with which Marvel has chosen to implement it is an insult, to fans, to the creators who came before, and to the characters themselves.

But...

I thought similar things about Green Lantern: Rebirth. Granted, comparing the quality of these two series is laughable, but the basic idea behind them was the same: A creator felt that something was wrong with a character. They wrote a story for the purpose of changing that character's status quo, and for no other reason. In both books this is apparent, brazen even. Johns wanted Hal Jordan back, Quesada wanted 1960-70's Peter Parker. They made it happen, continuity and common sense be damned!

I've recently read The Sinestro Corps War, and it has turned me into a Hal Jordan fan, a feat that I never would have believed possible. This story, epic and excellent as it was, could not have been told had it not been for Rebirth. Johns returned the old GL status quo because he had a great story to tell, a story that could only be told with certain things in place. So he set those things, waited patiently, building this world back from nothing, and proceeded to blow me away.

Perhaps Spider-Man will experience a rebirth as well, one which would not have been possible without this travesty. I sure hope so.

'Cause I loves me some good Spider-Man.

[gungadin]

I'm willing to see how they handle it. I don't know if they can just brush it away, because people know, the general public knows (thanks to the movies) that Peter and MJ need to be together. It would be like retconning Lois Lane out of existence. Even if DC ended the Clark/Lois marriage, she's a part of the story. People expect her to be there. Same with MJ.

Of all the things you wrote (Except for the Gwen Stacy thing... I love her... and she was great... and I want them to do something with them that's not that stupid Sins Past story) this is the one I wanted to touch on...

This is exactly my point. I understand how they did it... And looking at it from that perspective of an emotional love story, I agree completely. It was a fantastic story... But as I heard somewhere else (probably in these boards) throwing using this exact device in a Spider-man story feels very contrived and out of place... There were different ways to handle it without making it so... strange feeling. Like someone said before: Spider-man's a street level character, and this has way too much oddball mysticism for me...

But I'm getting sidetracked: My point. If someone did a four arc Superman story in which Ma Kent is on her deathbed before her time because of Superman's failure to save her something like this would happen... But if they did the same exact thing I'd be pissed. Imagine if they did this whole thing to Superman and just took away the marriage and Superman wakes up without ever having married Lois Lane. I'd be so mad! They'd just retcon like... ten years of Superman stories out of existence and not explain how this COMPLETELY new continuity fits in with the past ten years of stories! It completely throws almost every Superman comic away!

That's an angst moment.

[racemccloud]

Hey, I just read the book again between this post and my last post...

I know I'm not going to change anyone's minds here, but I'll say it again: this is an emotionally poignant, beautifully sad, completely within character well-written story that happens to have come out of an editorial edict.

It's weak to try and express in words that I felt this was an emotionally moving story in a way superhero comics rarely are. This issue in particular was beautiful writing, and JMS' run on "Amazing" has been a great run with a great ending.

No, I am not Joe Quesada.

(Does anyone agree with me at all? I can't imagine that nobody does. I'm such a fan of these last two issues, in particular.)

[gungadin]

When characters have no motivations for their actions, or when events don't progress in a logical manner, the puppet strings become visible, and the story is no longer effective. This is the work of an editorial decision, and the laziness with which Marvel has chosen to implement it is an insult, to fans, to the creators who came before, and to the characters themselves.

But...

I thought similar things about Green Lantern: Rebirth. Granted, comparing the quality of these two series is laughable, but the basic idea behind them was the same: A creator felt that something was wrong with a character. They wrote a story for the purpose of changing that character's status quo, and for no other reason. In both books this is apparent, brazen even. Johns wanted Hal Jordan back, Quesada wanted 1960-70's Peter Parker. They made it happen, continuity and common sense be damned!

There's a difference here. Johns didn't want 1960's-70's Hal. He just wanted Hal so he could play with him in a modern setting. There was minimal retconning and all the pieces fit in with the modern universe and then EXPLAINED what the repercussions of the recon meant with the rest of the universe! Here, there's NO explanation! They just say "It's over! Naaaaaaatch!" They just throw out almost every story since the marriage without explaining the repercussions. It's like having a board full of story, then erasing a HUGE corner of it and then writing in a completely different story and hoping it fits in the line. Rebirth didn't do this. It's added carrots and annotations but didn't really erase all that much...

[racemccloud]

If someone did a four arc Superman story in which Ma Kent is on her deathbed before her time because of Superman's failure to save her something like this would happen... But if they did the same exact thing I'd be pissed. Imagine if they did this whole thing to Superman and just took away the marriage and Superman wakes up without ever having married Lois Lane. I'd be so mad! They'd just retcon like... ten years of Superman stories out of existence and not explain how this COMPLETELY new continuity fits in with the past ten years of stories! It completely throws almost every Superman comic away!

That's an angst moment.

I agree with you. But this storyline was not about explaining the continuity changes of "Brand New Day". If they DON'T explain how things have changed and how Spidey's new world fits together with his old, these whole thing falls apart. I think I'm looking at the glass-half full, in that I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt that they WILL explain them in the upcoming stories. If they DON'T, and this is just another lazy retcon, then we've got a problem.

Green Lantern: Rebirth succeeded because it was a well-explained, continuity faithful retcon. For "Brand New Day" to work, it can't sweep to the side everything that's been done since the Spidey/MJ wedding; this new world has to find someway to co-exist with the old. I want to see how they do that. If the fail, they fail, and I'll be here bitching about it with everyone else.

But THIS STORY, on it's own merits, "One More Day", I thought was a work of beautiful writing. I'll criticize the continuity gaps when they pop up, IF they pop up (and some probably will). I contend that a big part of Dan Slott's job is to navigate around them, and he's really good at it.

[gungadin]

Hey, I just read the book again between this post and my last post...

I know I'm not going to change anyone's minds here, but I'll say it again: this is an emotionally poignant, beautifully sad, completely within character well-written story that happens to have come out of an editorial edict.

It's weak to try and express in words that I felt this was an emotionally moving story in a way superhero comics rarely are. This issue in particular was beautiful writing, and JMS' run on "Amazing" has been a great run with a great ending.

No, I am not Joe Quesada.

(Does anyone agree with me at all? I can't imagine that nobody does. I'm such a fan of these last two issues, in particular.)

I'm not disagreeing with you. You saying that makes me change my mind. Yes, it's emotionally moving and poignant but it feels strange for a Spider-man story. In terms of what the characters feel, it's fairly on par... And I was pro-no marriage from the start...

I'm not against the story so much as I am the huge blatant disregard to fan comics. Them ERASING the marriage and retconning it into never existence is way more horrible than them deleting the marriage and making them try to pick up the pieces.

It's like this. If MJ said "Let's do it" and then Peter said "Woah. What? We need to talk about how much I mean to you" (in much more beautiful words... I'm typing kinda fast)(and yes, the roles can switch for the two of them) and then it was like "we need a trial separation" and that led to divorce... that's a complete different thing.

The story's sour because the outcome of it was so TERRIBLY handled at the end... Really? Retconning the marriage out of existence? Slap in the face to readers. That's the real problem I have in this story...

MJ and Peter spending their OMD holding each other? Beautiful. That stuff at the beginning? Beautiful.

"Let's erase and not deal with the repercussions?" Terrible.

[racemccloud]

Let me tell you brother, I'm pretty "Meh" on this point.

My only point (and you can certainly "meh" it all you want) is that fans seem far more interested in the events of Spidey's book, then in the events in the books of these other iconic characters.

It's what I've always said of JMS, love him or hate him, his Spidey stuff was always worth talking about. He always challenges and takes risks and he isn't afraid of upsetting the status quo. I think these are some of the hallmarks of a very good writer.

[racemccloud]

"Let's erase and not deal with the repercussions?" Terrible.

And if they DON'T deal with the repercussions in some way, that's lazy writing, and that WILL suck. THAT I completely agree with.

[gungadin]

I agree with you. But this storyline was not about explaining the continuity changes of "Brand New Day". If they DON'T explain how things have changed and how Spidey's new world fits together with his old, these whole thing falls apart. I think I'm looking at the glass-half full, in that I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt that they WILL explain them in the upcoming stories. If they DON'T, and this is just another lazy retcon, then we've got a problem.

Ugh. I dunno... I want modern Parker not married to MJ... Now he's still living with Aunt May and biking? It's like he's stuck in the 80's! What happened to all that development?

That's what I'm talking about...

Btw, I'm on board for One More Day... But they did NOTHING to get me excited for it.

The thing about the retcon though: It's not just Spidey. Dealing with Spidey is one thing. But what does this mean for Civil War? New Avengers? All the stuff with the OTHER characters (people I care about WAY more than Spidey) that I'm worried about fitting... That was my first reaction, and that's the stuff I have a problem with.

[gungadin]

And if they DON'T deal with the repercussions in some way, that's lazy writing, and that WILL suck. THAT I completely agree with.

That's a HUGE task. That's dealing with 20 years of problems erased and now needs fixing... If Dan Slott does this well... I dunno... I'll go buy the entire run of Avengers: Initiative... Something I have NO desire to do...

[racemccloud]

Ugh. I dunno... I want modern Parker not married to MJ... Now he's still living with Aunt May and biking? It's like he's stuck in the 80's! What happened to all that development?

That's what I'm talking about...

Btw, I'm on board for One More Day... But they did NOTHING to get me excited for it.

The thing about the retcon though: It's not just Spidey. Dealing with Spidey is one thing. But what does this mean for Civil War? New Avengers? All the stuff with the OTHER characters (people I care about WAY more than Spidey) that I'm worried about fitting... That was my first reaction, and that's the stuff I have a problem with.

Hey, they've got three issues of AMS coming out a month now. You gotta figure they'll be covering SOME of that stuff at some point. Dan Slott, Dan Slott, Dan Slott.

Bottom line: loved the writing in "One More Day", and I'll wait to see where they go with "Brand New Day" before I pass judgement on it. And I'm very interested to see how they handle this.

[racemccloud]

That's a HUGE task. That's dealing with 20 years of problems erased and now needs fixing... If Dan Slott does this well... I dunno... I'll go buy the entire run of Avengers: Initiative... Something I have NO desire to do...


It's daunting. They may have bitten off more than they can chew, but we'll see. All right, I'm done for the night. Peace!

P.S. - Dan Slott can write his way out of any continuity corner. Trust me, he's one of the best writer's working today at doing that.

[gungadin]

P.S. - Dan Slott can write his way out of any continuity corner. Trust me, he's one of the best writer's working today at doing that.

He better be. *Threaten threaten*

I'd also like to point out that dumping this one a writer seems slightly irresponsible on their part... "Go clean up our mess."

Terrible...

[conorkilpatrick]

Heck. I'm interested to know how many people just plain were okay with the marriage ending, but hated how it was handled...

That would be me.

[conorkilpatrick]

Also, it was mentioned in that interview a few pages back that his identity is still public, so my theory for now is that in this new reality, or whatever it is, he was dating MJ and she didn't know he was Spider-Man or didn't want him to reveal his identity when he did and that's why they're fighting.

That runs contrary to the dialogue in the book.

"She was shot because he made his identity public, the world knows him as Spider-Man. What's to stop some other lunatic from shooting her again?" - Mary Jane

*Lots of monologuing from Mephisto*

"So if that's all it takes, consider his identity forgotten." - Mephisto

[tad]

Welcome back, Conor. Hope the broadcast went well. But no live feed? When is Revision 3 going to treat you guys as the rock stars you are.

As to the world of Spider-man. I don't buy the aversion to a divorce. Joe Q said nobody would want that. Living with a superhero has to be close to impossible. It could've been handled fine and provided more types of stories than a reset button.

[conorkilpatrick]

Like someone said before: Spider-man's a street level character, and this has way too much oddball mysticism for me...

Please don't take this the wrong way but I find this argument to be almost laughable. You're talking about a guy who has fought battles on alien worlds, been one half of an alien symbiote, and has wielded the power cosmic.

It's not like Marvel is suddenly infringing upon the "realism" in Spider-Man's world.

[humphrey-lee]

Ugh. I dunno... I want modern Parker not married to MJ... Now he's still living with Aunt May and biking? It's like he's stuck in the 80's! What happened to all that development?

That's what I'm talking about...

Btw, I'm on board for One More Day... But they did NOTHING to get me excited for it.


Comic book characters aren't allowed to develop and grow silly. They need to stay redundant and stagnant so that people who have no interest in them other than to see them in big screen productions won't be scared off because the limitedly preconceived notion they have of the characters is no longer intact! That way when they come into the comic book shops fucking never because of said multi-million dollar blockbuster, the editors and everyone involved in the publications of these characters over the years can feel good about how they helped grow and produce a stable audience for the product to be enjoyed by for years to come...


... holy shit that was a ton of run on sarcasm... even more than I normally am good for...

[thefreakytiki]

OK, so after sleeping on it, I still feel that the story is creatively lazy and selfish. I also believe this...

...ANOTHER TIKI PREDICTION (remember my Skrull one)....

...Peter is in a coma and is having flashbacks. Flashbacks to people and times that were good to him in his mind. Joe Q. said Spidey will not be interacting with any other character in the Marvel Universe for the next year. Easy out for Peter Parker not being involved in the Skrull invasion.


My guess.


the Tiki http://www.pixeljoint.com/files/icons/tiki_torches.gif

[ian-s]

OK, so after sleeping on it, I still feel that the story is creatively lazy and selfish. I also believe this...

...ANOTHER TIKI PREDICTION (remember my Skrull one)....

...Peter is in a coma and is having flashbacks. Flashbacks to people and times that were good to him in his mind. Joe Q. said Spidey will not be interacting with any other character in the Marvel Universe for the next year. Easy out for Peter Parker not being involved in the Skrull invasion.


My guess.


the Tiki http://www.pixeljoint.com/files/icons/tiki_torches.gif

Very Life on Mars...

...My name is Peter Parker. Some really weird stuff happened, and I woke up in what looks like 1985. Am I mad, in a coma, or have the last 20 years of my life been retconned away? Whatever's happened, it's like I've landed on a different planet. Now, maybe if I can work out the reason, I can get back to my regular continuity. :)

[poltah]

I'm the only one who sees a problem with Mephisto's motivation? Why is he there? Why do we care about him? Why does he do what he does? It just seems like they pulled a cosmic character out of the hat and said "Well, um, this guy doesn't like marriages."

[poltah]

And is this Mary Jane?

http://media.comics.ign.com/media/740/740875/img_5123203.html

It's from a Brand New Day preview.

[s-sanchez]

I like how Marvel has reversed damn near everything important that has happened to Peter over the years, and by "like" I obviously mean "can't fucking stand". I dont think nobody heard me, but as the guys were talking about the issue I was flipping through it I kinda yelled out "are you kidding me?" when I saw you-know-who was back.

I want to be super pissed off but I can't, I'm just so numb to this whole stupid thing. THey undid about 4 things in just one issue, theres nothing telling me that this is more permanent that those things, I mean-how long til they reverse this? How long til we see "Everything we told you was wrong is now RIGHT" on the cover to an issue? Why fucking bother reading about a character that isnt allowed to grow, or change or have important things done to him when it's all gonna get swept under the rug someday?

I know this is comics and all that, but I dont think I've ever seen a single character that has had more things either undid, forgotten about or just plain swept under the rug like Spider-Man. And I think the worst part is that they've all been done poorly. From Aunt May to Norman Osborn coming back from the "dead", from finding out the SPidey we all been reading about is a clone to Peter and Mj have a baby? WHat baby? OOGA BOOGA! It's enough to make some of us go nuts.

I say we start a pool, I'm giving it 2 years.

[s-sanchez]

And is this Mary Jane?

http://media.comics.ign.com/media/740/740875/img_5123203.html

It's from a Brand New Day preview.

Is that Greg Land art?

Nobody does "something really intense is happening but my facial expressions wont convery that fact" like Greg Land.

"Hey! that car has no driver!" *Sexy pose*

[gungadin]

It's not like Marvel is suddenly infringing upon the "realism" in Spider-Man's world.

True... But I really would have rather them have a separation and then divorced... Throwing in Mephisto and retconning all this was just WAY too much...

Is that Greg Land art?

Nobody does "something really intense is happening but my facial expressions wont convery that fact" like Greg Land.

"Hey! that car has no driver!" *Sexy pose*

It's actually Steve McNiven (unless I'm very much mistaken...)

That would be me.

I remember! I remember! I'm right there with you, buddy!

[tad]

Browsed the net and read a bunch of outrage and a few supporters.

I don't have the issue so I don't know all the particulars but I doubt this reset will be retconned out of existence. Because he's still basically Spider-man and I don't foresee a lot of fans campaigning strongly for their superhero to get married.

Plus for new fans who know Spider-man from cartoons and movies, the comic will now match their expectations. There are plenty of soap opera theatrics to be had when he's just dating someone, whether it's MJ or someone else.

[gungadin]

Browsed the net and read a bunch of outrage and a few supporters.

I don't have the issue so I don't know all the particulars but I doubt this reset will be retconned out of existence. Because he's still basically Spider-man and I don't foresee a lot of fans campaigning strongly for their superhero to get married.

Plus for new fans who know Spider-man from cartoons and movies, the comic will now match their expectations. There are plenty of soap opera theatrics to be had when he's just dating someone, whether it's MJ or someone else.

Yeah... But they didn't have to completely retcon the marriage out of existence to do it...

[luthor]

Read it. Not happy about it but I didn't completely hate it either. I missed Flash and Harry, so it was nice to see them back in the picture. I am walking away from it with a lot of questions, which I guess is a good thing as it means I'm at least curious to see where everything goes.

[racemccloud]

Read it. Not happy about it but I didn't completely hate it either. I missed Flash and Harry, so it was nice to see them back in the picture. I am walking away from it with a lot of questions, which I guess is a good thing as it means I'm at least curious to see where everything goes.

Right, and my take is that we wait and see how those questions are answered before you go right off and condemn "Brand New Day" before it has even happened. As for "One More Day", I think it was one of the great Spider-Man stories, up there with "Kraven's Last Hunt" and "Death of Gwen Stacy" and the "Ezekial" stories.

No, I'm not Joe Quesada.

[idave]

And is this Mary Jane?

http://media.comics.ign.com/media/740/740875/img_5123203.html

It's from a Brand New Day preview.

Im not sure if that is Mary JAne, but if you remember the spiderman free comic book day thing, she was in that. Peter didn't seem to know who she was. I should dig that out and read it.

[poltah]

I agree, it's nice to see some of the old guys back. And I get that they wanted a bigger supporting cast, I get why they thought the marriage wasn't working that well. BUT, it's just such a lazy, cheap ass, bad way to do it. It's so lame.
And again. My biggest problems with this story was: a) Mephisto made no sense. Why would he do what he did?
and b) Why the heck did Mary-Jane and Peter agree to it?

And just, aregh, it's such a lazy way to try and do something cool. Erasing 20 years of spider-stories isn't a good thing. Since when did character growth become a bad thing?!

And I love how Quesada is all like "This opens up to so many stories". Well yeah, it basically opens up for all the stories we've been reading for the last 20 years!!

[six-gun]

Im not sure if that is Mary JAne, but if you remember the spiderman free comic book day thing, she was in that. Peter didn't seem to know who she was. I should dig that out and read it.

You're right, that one shot was pretty odd in that it showed a young, pre-marriage peter in a post-registration act world and it was created by two of the guys on Brand New Day.

I guess that it was the first brand new day comic. If this is the case then that's awesome

[six-gun]

It's actually Steve McNiven (unless I'm very much mistaken...)


Umm, you are ;) that's Salvador Laroca, he's going to be teaming up with Guggenheim for one of the Brand New Day stories.

McNiven's art is much much much better and not so photo-referenced (also, he has a tell-tale way of doing that that image doesn't have)

[jimski]

I wasn't particularly happy about this going in, but the simple truth is Amazing Spider-Man is one of my all-time favorite books and it's been a long, long time since I didn't dread reading the next issue. Since about the time May moved into Avengers Tower and started dating Jarvis I've thought, "Is this the month? Do I finally see something so depressing that I go ahead and kill myself? Hey, maybe May and Jarvis will have babies, just like Gwen did with the Green Effing Goblin." The unmasking was a story with rich potential, at least, but what they chose to do with that potential was Back in goddamn Black.

Given all that, I thought this unfortunate storyline 1) was better than its predecessor 2) featured characters behaving like they would in this ludicrous situation 3) promised vastly better things to come. The ruins of the supporting cast (remember when there was a supporting cast? JMS doesn't!) are restored. The wasted opportunity of the unmasking is chalked up to experience and brushed under the rug. The marriage? Feh. We haven't seen the last of MJ.

I was sort of amazed: I think of myself as someone who abhors retcons, but as I read the end I kept going, "Hey... yeah. Yeah!"

[poltah]

Just feel like a "We don't have any writers who can write anything with what we got. So instead, we're gonna remove the last 20 years, and we can just write all the same shit again".

It is Dan Slott though, so...

[mikegraham6]

according to the poll (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=141208), people are NOT happy....

[briangilmore]

While all these are interesting excuses for the story and for peter's childish choices...

this was lazy and one of the worst things that you can do in an on-going story is completely ignore everything you have told for such a long time. it's like your grandpa spending 5 hours (or over 50 years) telling you a story then in the middle saying "well forget everything i said after i said ______".

And yeah Aunt May should die. Sure it's mom vs. wife, but it's very much something that is a fact of life and I think that it would have been far more interesting and a far more interesting dive into a study and story of true
mor(t)ality if when Peter tried to alter reality, he eventually learned (as all of us have to at some point) that life is hard sometimes and there is nothing that can be done to reverse that.

Just like he learned from Uncle Ben's Death and from the death of Gwen Stacy, he could have learned from this and taken yet another tragic hit. It would have strengthened MJ and his marriage; and the character would have GROWN. Like, seriously GROWN.

Sure it can be an intresting twist, but i stand behind and will continue to stand behind the idea that the means by which they made this story happen are just childish, lame, and make the character out to be less virtuous and more so pigheaded and naive.


this makes me sad, b/c spidey is mah boy.

[tad]

I went to the comic store and mentioned the Spidey thing to the guy at the counter. He grimmaced and said, "Spidey does not make deals with the devil."

Wow.

Forget the squabbling of who's back, who's gone, reset, retcon, etc. That was the simplest summation I've heard. Makes me wonder if it'll all be a dream after all and Joe Q was just yankin' us with his single Spidey talk... unless sales go up then it'll remain the reality.

[nicknack18]

Look whether you liked it or not fan opinion was not going to have the story end any differently. i personally didn't like it but thats the way a lot of ppl feel. any way what I'm trying to say is that the big wigs in marvel didn't want peter to be married any more b/c they thought it was boring and they knew they could kill MJ off ala Gwen Stacy so they did it this way we may not like it but thats what the Marvel higher ups wanted.

[poltah]

Look whether you liked it or not fan opinion was not going to have the story end any differently. i personally didn't like it but thats the way a lot of ppl feel. any way what I'm trying to say is that the big wigs in marvel didn't want peter to be married any more b/c they thought it was boring and they knew they could kill MJ off ala Gwen Stacy so they did it this way we may not like it but thats what the Marvel higher ups wanted.


Eh, true. But that doesn't mean we can't discuss it. Or complain about it.

[drwally]

Eh, true. But that doesn't mean we can't discuss it. Or complain about it.

Too true. Maybe like Aunt May, this thread will never die....:rolleyes:

But seriously folks, I just read a wonderful story arc that took a character that has been "done wrong" for over a decade at least, a character I never really had much interest in, and it involved a dead person coming back to life. It rebooted the character back to his roots within continuity, and the writer chose to use all the bad treatments of the character by previous writers as the very pivot for the reboot back to this particular character's silver age glory, but in the modern setting where instead of just going back to the well, or straying from the well, the well was deepened and made richer, in a way that left amazing story opportunities for the future open with possibility. The old girlfriend is married and who cares -- on with the story and its a fun ride. It sparked renewed interest in a character many had left on the sidelines as old and outdated, but is now (maybe) one of the company's best titles, and the story arc that started all this is often recommended to people to read, as in, you will actually like the story.

And you know what? It was not Spider-Man.

If all they were going to do was take the (A) current status quo and then (B) reboot, then they could have just done that in -two issues- and skipped all the whatever in the middle and spared people the wasted time and money. If they wanted to do it in more issues, they could have turned to numerous examples like the one I cited above, and at least, at least, written a decent story.

Doesn't matter what they do, who they get rid of, who they keep, just do it well, that's what I say. Then people don't complain so much. I guessing a lot of the fan dissatisfaction is not with the actual "this or that happened" stuff, but with the fact that they read it and the reaction was - "Oh crap. That's just crap. Spider-Man deserves better than this crappy story."

I am seeing, "Oh, now they have the supporting cast back. Good." But if one year from now its still crappy writing, it still won't satisfy the fans no matter what they do, UNLESS they WRITE a GOOD book.

[poltah]

And I don't want spider-man to get back to his roots. I don't want spider-man to be the spider-man from the 60ies or whenever. I don't want the spider-man from 20 years back. I want character growth. I want my characters to grow and change. If I wanted to read stupid teenage spidey, I'd read Ultimate spider-man. And I don't read those comics, because I like the new Spidey better (and Bendis is crap if you ask me).

[drwally]

And I don't want spider-man to get back to his roots. I don't want spider-man to be the spider-man from the 60ies or whenever. I don't want the spider-man from 20 years back. I want character growth. I want my characters to grow and change. If I wanted to read stupid teenage spidey, I'd read Ultimate spider-man. And I don't read those comics, because I like the new Spidey better (and Bendis is crap if you ask me).

Oh, I read tons of new character growth is this other character - Silver age best, 90s crap dumped but not avoided, yet still modernized and now ready for future development in a more sophisticated manner. Back to the roots, yet still older, wiser, can't avoid a trouble past, but with a renewed sense of his basic values, even if they clash with his peers, facing yet still an uncertain future despite his renewed sense of self, which could yet lead to complications. Isn't that the direction Spidey should be going in, with all the MJ / Aunt May complications not just swept under the rug, so ready for new story possibilities? That's how I see it.

And if people don't like Bendis, I can understand that. Bendis has, after all, run away from the tangled continuity issues of Spider-Man in USM by fleeing and avoiding it altogether, which is very easy for any writer to do, unlike say, Geoff Johns at DC who takes on the tangled and confusing and previous bad treatments by other writers but refuses to avoid these troubled story lines in his stories. (And for a guy that writes tons, he comes out on time). Bendis, in New Avengers for example, avoids the "One More Day" ship wreck, but that "avoiding the issue" approach doesn't help. In fact, I feel a hole there that needs filling, if that makes sense. The Spidey in NA feels like he's "half present, half not present, kind of in limbo, waiting for other people to get it together, not adding much to the dynamic of the team" So I see your point.

But still, I thing the real root of the Spider-Man discontent is not an age thing, or a Mary Jane thing, or a 60s/70s thing - its just many people are coming away feeling - "That was not a good comic, and it came out pretty darn late too, for something that left an icky taste in my mouth, and I am not happy, so let's latch onto something to bitch about." I also see it in the recent Sub-Mariner mini, and Civil War - the going from (1) previous status quo in issue one, to (2) new set up in the last issue, should not mean a lot of crap writing in the middle. Consider too that many are saying that all that "big change for a whole new exciting future" is not always delivering on many promises, and some fans are feeling like they got sold empty promises on those things one year later (pun not intended). MJ still married to Peter, or not, Aunt May dead or alive- whatever, just write a good book, Marvel. The CW, Sub-Mariner, and now Spider-Man thing, where it seems like too much is "change for change's sake" does not appeal (at least to me) and seems like a troubling trend at Marvel, excluding Brubaker (at Marvel), who quietly works away, incorporates what is going on in other books well without avoiding the "tangled webs" but still writes good stories, gets big bonus points from me (for me that would be DD and Captain America).

And when a lot of the internet is cracking the joke "One More Day - One More Delay" about a story that could probably have only been three issues at best, its not good for the character.

Does that make sense?

[racemccloud]

Too true. Maybe like Aunt May, this thread will never die....:rolleyes:

But seriously folks, I just read a wonderful story arc that took a character that has been "done wrong" for over a decade at least, a character I never really had much interest in, and it involved a dead person coming back to life. It rebooted the character back to his roots within continuity, and the writer chose to use all the bad treatments of the character by previous writers as the very pivot for the reboot back to this particular character's silver age glory, but in the modern setting where instead of just going back to the well, or straying from the well, the well was deepened and made richer, in a way that left amazing story opportunities for the future open with possibility. The old girlfriend is married and who cares -- on with the story and its a fun ride. It sparked renewed interest in a character many had left on the sidelines as old and outdated, but is now (maybe) one of the company's best titles, and the story arc that started all this is often recommended to people to read, as in, you will actually like the story.

And you know what? It was not Spider-Man.

If all they were going to do was take the (A) current status quo and then (B) reboot, then they could have just done that in -two issues- and skipped all the whatever in the middle and spared people the wasted time and money. If they wanted to do it in more issues, they could have turned to numerous examples like the one I cited above, and at least, at least, written a decent story.

Doesn't matter what they do, who they get rid of, who they keep, just do it well, that's what I say. Then people don't complain so much. I guessing a lot of the fan dissatisfaction is not with the actual "this or that happened" stuff, but with the fact that they read it and the reaction was - "Oh crap. That's just crap. Spider-Man deserves better than this crappy story."

I am seeing, "Oh, now they have the supporting cast back. Good." But if one year from now its still crappy writing, it still won't satisfy the fans no matter what they do, UNLESS they WRITE a GOOD book.

So... what book was that, so we can read it?

And I, for one, didn't think "One More Day" suffered from crappy writing; I thought it was beautifully WRITTEN. You can disagree with the IDEA, but I stand by the fact that JMS ended his run with class, style and emotion.

As for "a year from now", how about we judge that a year from now, when we've actually read the stories?

[racemccloud]

I went to the comic store and mentioned the Spidey thing to the guy at the counter. He grimmaced and said, "Spidey does not make deals with the devil."

Well, you know, about that...

...

...

Okay, that's a good point.

[racemccloud]

(and Bendis is crap if you ask me).

Hey, haven't we all had this discussion already? (I'd put a smiley-face emoticon here, but I really hate emoticons.)

[gungadin]

emoticons

I'm always confused as to how to say this word...

... That is all...

[humphrey-lee]

So... what book was that, so we can read it?

And I, for one, didn't think "One More Day" suffered from crappy writing; I thought it was beautifully WRITTEN. You can disagree with the IDEA, but I stand by the fact that JMS ended his run with class, style and emotion.

As for "a year from now", how about we judge that a year from now, when we've actually read the stories?

I won't be able to read the final issue of it until tomorrow, but the first three parts were some of the most horrible plotting and scripting I've seen in a comic. Especially the first two issues, which tripped over each other so badly in redundancy I felt bad for the people I knew who were actually paying for the books.

That's just me though...

[racemccloud]

I won't be able to read the final issue of it until tomorrow, but the first three parts were some of the most horrible plotting and scripting I've seen in a comic. Especially the first two issues, which tripped over each other so badly in redundancy I felt bad for the people I knew who were actually paying for the books.

That's just me though...

I would agree that #3 and #4 are by far the best two issues of the four-parter. And #4 moreso than #3. But judge for yourself when you read it.

[jimski]

I enjoyed reading what Peter David (http://peterdavid.malibulist.com/archives/005926.html) had to say:

I posted a fairly neutral comment about how OMD wasn't the direction I would have gone in, and suddenly that comment is making the rounds as some sort of proof that I "hate" (exact words) One More Day. This despite the fact that I specifically mentioned I hadn't read it and I tend not to make judgments on stories I haven't read.

So I shall now clarify: All I said is that it's not the direction I would have gone in. That's a far cry from saying that I hated it. Let's remember I'm the person who did a three part storyline that brought back Uncle Ben and was pilloried by any number of fans for it, in some cases sight unseen. So it's not as if I can claim to have my finger on the pulse of what makes fans happy where Spider-Man is concerned.

Hell, lots of fans dogpiled on my run on "Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man," crabbing about everything from a high schooler contemporary to a teen Peter Parker who had an on-line blog to the fact that I "wasted" two issues on a story involving Mexican wrestling, to the entire notion of how dare I write a follow-up to "The Other" (not to be confused with the fans who complained bitterly because they believed that there would be NO follow-up to the Other.) They crabbed about Todd's artwork. Hell, they even crabbed about the title of the comic, for God's sake, claiming that it made it sound like a comic for kids...because, y'know, heaven forbid that kids should find anything about Spider-Man appealing.

Yet suddenly I'm embraced? Held up as the poster boy for being on the side of the same fans who didn't hesitate to slag just about every aspect of my two years on FNSM, and lauded for my brave stance? Yeah, uh...I don't think so. As Groucho so immortally said, I don't care to belong to a club that would have me as a member.

There are complaints because years worth of continuity has suddenly been rendered moot? Okay, well...did you enjoy the stories when you read them? Yes? Good: You got your money's worth. Can you still pull them out and re-read them? Yes? Good: Then OMD didn't somehow cause the previous comics to magically vanish from existence. I mean, I *wrote* a number of those stories that, in terms of plot and character development are no longer relevant, and I'm not cracking up over it. I wrote them, they were enjoyed for what they were (or disliked for what they were), and that to my mind is the end of it.

Frankly, I'm kind of annoyed that all of a sudden my fairly neutral statement is being held up as an example of Spidey-writers uniting against some great outrage. I mean, jeez, we're dealing with a medium in which death itself is simply a temporary set-back, and fans are treating an updating of "Doctor Faustus" as if it's a crime against humanity.

Fandom really needs to get some perspective here. Perhaps it will lead to great stories and everyone will hail it as a great move after the fact. Perhaps it won't, in which case it can always be reversed. Personally, I'm actually planning to pick up the new stories to see where it goes (yes, I don't get them for free; shut up) if for no other reason than that they're being written by some writers whose work I like. And I say that, not as a Marvel employee, but as a guy no different than the rest of you: A long-time Spider-Man fan.

PAD

[doingpushupsnaked]

This was the worst comic I've ever read. This wasn't the Peter Parker I grew up reading making those decisions, it wasn't MJ, and in the end none of this was needed. I never, ever, heard anyone aside from Joe Quesada ever claim that they had an issue with the progression of the characters, or that they thought a marriage somehow restricted story telling possibilities.

Anyways, I've decided to make a statement with my wallet and dropped all eight Marvel titles that I was reading. I've also ripped up my copies of One More Day and plan to mail them to Marvel. Childish? Maybe. But I invested a grand number of hours and a lion's share of my allowance and lawn-mowing money ages seven to thirteen devouring Spider-Man books (and anything I could afford that brushed up against his little soap opera). So I think I've earned the right to be a little juvenile.

[conorkilpatrick]

I enjoyed reading what Peter David (http://peterdavid.malibulist.com/archives/005926.html) had to say:

I love Peter David.

[drwally]

I love Peter David.

yeah, he is a class act. Thanks for posting the Peter David comment Jimski. I really don't like the fact that many creators can't seem to share their thoughts (carefully, rightfully, diplomatically and judiciously phrased) without fearing all the internet crazy, knee-jerk, petty hate reaction he describes.

[tad]

On CBR (http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=12673) Joe Q reports that what JMS was objecting to was NOT the resetting of the Spider-man universe, he was on board with that, but the way he chose to reset it. Evidently, they mapped out one way at their summit and the other Spidey writers went to work. Doing the ending JMS turned in would through out all the issues that had been written and delayed the books even more.

[racemccloud]

I love Peter David.

I'd like to second that. (Or maybe that's "third" by now.) He put it well.

[racemccloud]

I'd like to second that. (Or maybe that's "third" by now.) He put it well.

And I mean, I love him as a writer AND as a personality.

[jimski]

Well, that's interesting: I'd forgotten all about that OMD teaser that now seems to have nothing to do with anything. (http://www.weeklycrisis.com/2007/12/anyone-remember-this-one-more-day.html)

[kwok_talk]

Well, that's interesting: I'd forgotten all about that OMD teaser that now seems to have nothing to do with anything. (http://www.weeklycrisis.com/2007/12/anyone-remember-this-one-more-day.html)
Weird. Maybe Mephisto is a skrull.

[gungadin]

Weird. Maybe Mephisto is a skrull.

Way to up that ante. That Skrull would be damn powerful.

[52878org]

I know a lot of people are mad at this book for not coming out on time. But you know I would let aunt may die. The woman is like 900 years old and she does not look as good a master yoda did when he was 900 years old . But I enjoy this story line a lot you got thing about this maybe is time for then to get new fans on this book and if you have not been reading spider-man the past few year your lost.


I am sorry the last part of the book made me want to cry. Over all I like this story line I guess only time will tell. Know what Marvel is doing with this book.

[euchre0]

I've been against this since I first heard that JQ hated married Spider-Man.

After reading part three I vowed to not buy any of the reboot...but now I am going to be a hypocrite and admit that now I am suddenly excited for the new stuff, partly because I've been plowing through the first five volumes of the Essentials. As a result, I've reaquianted myself with the college cast. That said, I hope they reverse this trite story, but I am willing to buy the next few issues.



Man, after reading what I just wrote, I feel kind of dirty. I've joined the ranks of those who bitch about how crappy a title is, but then throw down three dollars a month (or in this case, nine) to read it in 3 minutes then put it in a box. Maybe it'll pay off. Or maybe I''ll man up and drop it.

[jimski]

I think you'd really enjoy Augie's column on CBR (http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/?column=6) this week.

[racemccloud]

I think you'd really enjoy Augie's column on CBR (http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/?column=6) this week.

There's a man who knows how comics work.

[gungadin]

I think you'd really enjoy Augie's column on CBR (http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/?column=6) this week.

We can only pray that's how it'll be...

[jimski]

Very, very interesting Quesada interview on CBR (http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=12681) this week. Suddenly I find myself wondering how Harry's resurrection will impact Thunderbolts.

He also raises a splendid question that I wish I'd thought of: if the fans want to see Peter continue to develop and grow and mature, that must be why Spider-Girl is such a hot seller, right? Those 11,000 copies fly off the shelves every month.

When I was halfway through issue three of OMD, we received Joe?s script for issue 4. After reading it, we (Axel, Tom and myself) all quickly realized that we had a problem -- the script we had just received was not the one we were expecting, and the events that were being set forth in that issue were going to conflict with the work that was already being done on ?Brand New Day.? I thought that perhaps Joe had forgotten some of the stuff discussed at the summit meetings and the subsequent e-mails and discussions that followed, but that didn?t seem to be the case; this was the story he wanted to tell. In his story, Mephisto was going to change continuity from as far back as issues #96-98 from 1971. In Joe's story, Peter drops the dime on Harry, and that helps get him into rehab right away. Consequently, MJ stays with Harry, and Gwen never dies and never has her affair with Norman, etc., etc. And in the end, Peter and MJ are never married.

This, in my mind, while it neatly puts the pieces back in some way, was not what we wanted to do. First, it discounted every issue of ?Amazing? since that story arc. Second, the series of events that it discounts in the Marvel U are too far-reaching to contemplate. And third, it had severe ramifications for the creators already well underway on ?Brand New Day,? the thrice-monthly ?Amazing Spider-Man.? In other words, there was just no way to tell Joe?s story without blowing up the entire Marvel U and every Spider-Man?s fan?s collection. What we originally discussed with Joe and the group was much simpler and cleaner: The wedding? Something happened on the wedding day that prevented it from happening. The unsmasking? Mephisto makes people forget it; much like the Sentry, it happened -- it?s just no longer remembered. And Harry? Well, there?s always a price to pay when you make a deal with the devil. Is it a perfect solution? Absolutely not. Does it get us to where we want to be? Yes.

[gungadin]

He also raises a splendid question that I wish I'd thought of: if the fans want to see Peter continue to develop and grow and mature, that must be why Spider-Girl is such a hot seller, right? Those 11,000 copies fly off the shelves every month.

Well, I'd go for seeing Peter as Spidey and like... mid 20's... Not freakin'... Old (Forty) and not Spidey...

[mikegraham6]

I found this pic off of kwok's forum. I thought a lot of you might enjoy it:

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t268/mikegraham6/untitled-5.jpg

[kwok_talk]

Is it weird that I've never noticed that picture before?

Anywhoo, I personally hadn't been reading ASM for years (still like Spidey), but understood the uproar with OMD. I ended up flipping the last issue due to all the uproar and from a completely detached perspective, I had the following thoughts:

1. It was a pretty good issue. Not indicative of the whole rebooting, but the story for that issue I actually enjoyed. I felt my breath stop during those last few pages with MJ & Peter (LOVE the page with the repeated image of their mouths and Peter just trying to say something). I guess while I didn't agree with the decision, I was pleased with the execution.

2. The art. This was my first OMD issue I looked at, but I thought the art was amazing. I really liked the sparseness.

[jimski]

The art style really changed as the arc went on. #4 and #1 look like they were done by completely different people.

[gungadin]

I found this pic off of kwok's forum. I thought a lot of you might enjoy it:

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t268/mikegraham6/untitled-5.jpg

It looks like it would smell like burnt hair...

[crivelliman]

You know what's funny? Being an avid Spidey fan, I was livid when I heard the plan for the marriage. When I finally got my hands on the issue, I felt a little sad, but also some relief. I didn't have to agonize over what was to come, or speculate about how it was going to be completely fucked up. I it, and the story had its share of holes (illustrated by JMS' Newsarama email (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=141756)), but it also kind of reminded me that change is inevitable.

One of the main points a lot of Spidey fans have been making is that they've been growing up with him, so it's only natural that Pete age and grow along with them. A ret-con of this magnitude takes him away from us a little bit, and makes him have to grow up all over again. This point was hammered home by the inclusion of their unborn child at the end, where Mephisto basically says that he had the power to move them forward, and instead, they took a big step backward. It struck me, because it showed a call for progressiveness, but ultimately "our hero" chose regression.

[davegraham]

When I finally got my hands on the issue, I felt a little sad, but also some relief. I didn't have to agonize over what was to come, or speculate about how it was going to be completely fucked up.

I'd like to echo that statement. I am pro-marriage, but at least we can all move on from here. Whether or not the marriage ruined Spidey is behind us. We can talk about something else now. And that is a big plus.

I am still a little bitter about what kind of fallout this will have in New Avengers, but I'll get over it.

[jimski]

I am still a little bitter about what kind of fallout this will have in New Avengers, but I'll get over it.

This is Jessica Jones' chance to finally act on that long-standing high school crush on Peter.

[conorkilpatrick]

One of the main points a lot of Spidey fans have been making is that they've been growing up with him, so it's only natural that Pete age and grow along with them. A ret-con of this magnitude takes him away from us a little bit, and makes him have to grow up all over again. This point was hammered home by the inclusion of their unborn child at the end, where Mephisto basically says that he had the power to move them forward, and instead, they took a big step backward. It struck me, because it showed a call for progressiveness, but ultimately "our hero" chose regression.

"Your hero" needs to be around for younger people. He can't keep aging with you.

[davegraham]

This is Jessica Jones' chance to finally act on that long-standing high school crush on Peter.

Considering she is a married woman and a mother... that would be a very interesting story to read (Forgive me, has she really had a crush on Spider-man since high school?)

[crivelliman]

"Your hero" needs to be around for younger people. He can't keep aging with you.

Isn't one of the reasons for the Ultimate line to create a younger, more contemporary version for younger people? If that's too mature, they also created Marvel Adventures for even younger readers.

A point which I had not articulated was the fact that, eventually, we have to outgrow our heroes, so eventually we don't have to look up to our heroes. We can respect them, and appreciate their influence over our maturation.

[jimski]

Isn't one of the reasons for the Ultimate line to create a younger, more contemporary version for younger people? If that's too mature, they also created Marvel Adventures for even younger readers. Yeah, but good news: they have a mature, married Spider-Man still too. It's the populist smash Spider-Girl. After One More Day, I hear they may have to chop down the rest of the Amazon to print enough copies now. The word is demand.

(Forgive me, has she really had a crush on Spider-man since high school?)

Oh yes; see the "Secret Origin" arc of Alias... because it hasn't been mentioned since, in three years of them living together in Tony Stark's mansion together.

[conorkilpatrick]

Isn't one of the reasons for the Ultimate line to create a younger, more contemporary version for younger people? If that's too mature, they also created Marvel Adventures for even younger readers.

Neither one of those is the "Marvel Universe" Spider-Man.

I also don't think the real purpose of the Ultimate line was to get younger readers. I think it was to tell 40 years of continuity-free stories, but that's just my theory.

[52878org]

I found this pic off of kwok's forum. I thought a lot of you might enjoy it:

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t268/mikegraham6/untitled-5.jpg

Is not that bad guys. Wow I hope that is photoshop fire.

[racemccloud]

I found this pic off of kwok's forum. I thought a lot of you might enjoy it:

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t268/mikegraham6/untitled-5.jpg

Come on. No matter what you think of the overall editorial decisions, that issue was good.

[tad]

What's done is done but I find how it was done fascinating.

Check out a fuller version from JMS of what he wanted vs. what Joe wanted. (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=141756) I think JMS is on much more solid creative ground and he was keeping continuity fans in mind but he was still ignoring the practical side of things: while he was researching the exact moment that should be changed in Peter Parker's like, three writers were writing scripts for the continuing series.

[humphrey-lee]

Come on. No matter what you think of the overall editorial decisions, that issue was good.

It was okay. The best issue of the bunch and it was only okay still.

[moneytime]

It was okay. The best issue of the bunch and it was only okay still.

Agreed. Overall I was completely underwhelmed and honestly a little "burned" myself. I'm interested to know what aspects Tad found fascinating. :(

[racemccloud]

It was okay. The best issue of the bunch and it was only okay still.

Much better than "okay".

[charlesdacriticczar]

the story line was dumb and drawn out, coulda been one double sized issue with all the standing around and talking...peter's a idiot, hmmm lets make a deal with the "devil" to save a lady whos up wards of 70 from dying..oh lets go wake up aunt may..ow she died in her sleep and can finally be with uncle ben...crap. then again what do i care, haven't bought a full run of spidey comics since jms' first story arc ended. and as a guy who isn't addicted to spidey i'm speaking to marvel with my wallet and not buying a issue of reg spidey only spider-girl and ultimate. not a good year for spidey...civil war, spider-man 3, and this....arggh..lol

[keithm]

the story line was dumb and drawn out, coulda been one double sized issue with all the standing around and talking...peter's a idiot, hmmm lets make a deal with the "devil" to save a lady whos up wards of 70 from dying..oh lets go wake up aunt may..ow she died in her sleep and can finally be with uncle ben...crap. then again what do i care, haven't bought a full run of spidey comics since jms' first story arc ended. and as a guy who isn't addicted to spidey i'm speaking to marvel with my wallet and not buying a issue of reg spidey only spider-girl and ultimate. not a good year for spidey...civil war, spider-man 3, and this....arggh..lol



See, this is the attitude that I really don't get. Doesn't everyone who "votes with their wallet" see that the message their sending is that you disagree with the BND creators and their stories? Also, as someone who disliked JMS's run shouldn't you be excited that a new team is starting.

People really need to take a step back and realize why we read comics in the first place. People are up in arms that their 7 long boxes of Spidey issues "never happened." Even though they are sorta in continuity, who really cares? It's fiction! None of it really happened! All that matters is if you enjoyed reading the story! If so, good, it'll always be there for you to read. If not, which is likely, given the state of the books over the past 10+ years, then good! Pick up BND, maybe the books will finally be fun again!

[moneytime]

I'm afraid I have to land on CharlesDaCriticCzar's team on this. Sorry, keithm. Although I am interested in the start of a new team, I just don't really have a lot of hope, I guess you could say. :(
Never say never though. There may be greatness ahead...in some form! lol!

[keithm]

I'm afraid I have to land on CharlesDaCriticCzar's team on this. Sorry, keithm. Although I am interested in the start of a new team, I just don't really have a lot of hope, I guess you could say. :(
Never say never though. There may be greatness ahead...in some form! lol!


Well that's fine. If you feel that BND itself will be bad, then by all means avoid it. I just don't think it's fair to bail on Slott and the gang based on the trainwreck that OMD was (which I fully agree wilth. OMD was a horrible story). I just don't think people should feel so personally attacked by the retcon. It was a necessary evil to get Spidey to a workable place again.

[fanboys-strike-back]

Well I finally read the last chapter of One More Day after trying to dodge it for a week. I had a bad feeling that it would change Spider-man comics for me and sadly that feeling was destined to become reality.

For those of you who haven't listened to the podcast. Spider-man is my favorite hero and I've been reading Spider-man for about 16 years. it's what got me into comics and obviously Peter and MJ have been married the whole time I've been reading, except for their "brief separation"

I've always been a a very big supporter of Joe Q even though he's made some questionable decisions but that's what an EIC has to do right? But I've never agreed with his views that Peter and MJ shouldn't be married and I actually found it pretty offensive how public he was about it. It seemed like he was talking about it a lot and that made me very fearful for the future of Spider-man in the Marvel U.

So Amazing Spider-man #545 comes out and Peter Parker and Mary Jane are no longer married, A deal with the devil is made and the marriage is over. No one remembers that Peter is Spider-man, Aunt May is healthy and living with Peter, Harry is alive and well now.....so much happened and I have to say that I actually felt sick to my stomach as I was reading this book.

I can't believe that Marvel and Joe Q would actually go ahead with this, a story that I feel taints this character so much and changes so many things. There are so many things that I'm upset about, I don't even know where to start.

1. Let's just start where every Spider-man fan would. "With great power comes great responsibility." MJ tells Peter that this may be May's time and that he needs to let her go and his response is that she didn't die naturally and he's responsible. Of course he is!!! WHO CARES!!!! It is so incredibly out of character for Peter to change what happened because if that was in his character he wouldn't be Spider-man and Ben would still be alive. Ben's death meant everything to Peter and May's death should have done the same thing.

2. Mary Jane makes makes the hard decisions. Who was this story really about and who was the hero here? Not Peter, it was Mary Jane. He's gets this opportunity from Mephisto and basically makes her feel guilty about it until she finally makes the decision for him. My heart was broken when they get back to reality and she can barely keep it together and yet she's still being the strong one. Peter Parker just came off as a brat who cannot accept the consequences for his life. It was so infuriating to read.

3. The daughter......oh how this got to me. As I mentioned in our top 5 comic stories we would like to see. I was always disappointed in how Peter's and MJ"s baby was dropped from the Marvel U. We see Norman get his hands on the baby and then........nothing. In this we finally see a daughter and it's pretty clear that this was the baby as if it was a way to give that to the fans for some reconciliation. What a crappy thing to do, they should have just left it alone.

4. Twenty years....earlier?....Harry's alive, Flash and the gang are back together, web shooters are back and everyone looks de-aged. What the hell is going on????? In his OMD interviews Joe Q states that Harry is back because that the bad part of the devil's deal but do we need Harry back, the last pages were EXACTLY where Spider-man comics were 20 years ago and what is that going to solve. a ret-con is supposed to change something to further the character's future but all we're seeing is Peter's time capsule and that's not a good story. I don't want to old gang and old times back. I'VE ALREADY READ THOSE STORIES!!!!!!!!

5. Do the fans really matter? Obviously you can see that I'm pretty passionate by all of these changes and I have to say that this is easily the most upset that I've ever been as it relates to comics and I've been struggling with if that's justified. These are just fictional characters that we're talking about. They're not real, should I be this upset about everything? And ultimately the answer is yes. As I stated earlier I've been reading Spider-man books for 16 years and that's over half my life, I know this character, I've looked up to him since I was a boy, I have a huge emotional attachment to this character. I know Marvel wants to get new readers and tell new stories but in the end, and I'm sure that many people will disagree with me here, but I believe that first and foremost Marvel needs to be making good stories with people like me in mind. I am a die-hard fan, I am someone that has invested so much time and money in the company and have been there through the highs and the lows. Casual readers will come and go but I always will stick around......although for the first time I don't know anymore.

6. Can you even give us some adjustment time. I thought there were a lot of slaps in the face to longtime fans (The re-printing of the wedding was an absolute horrible idea!) but the worst slap would have to be new love interests in Peter's life already. Give us some time to work into it, to get used to these changes, but instead we're thrust into a party with new women in Peter's life and according to Joe, there were several new love prospects in that room for Peter. Too soon Marvel, way too soon.

7. Was this a dedicated story? Now I can see why they wouldn't want to make Peter and MJ have a divorce and I understand that but here's a simply question. If you're going to go in this direction, why would you not kill Mary Jane? Death can mean something and honestly I don't want to see the character anymore if things are going to be this way, as silly as it sounds, it just hurts too much. It seems like Marvel didn't kill her just in case this goes bad so they will have the option of going back on it......did anyone think this story through? And check out the links below and you'll know about the disagreements of Joe Q and OMD writer J. Michael Straczynski. Disagreements in stories, re-writes, this whole thing was a complete mess. What was Marvel thinking.


I could keep going with this list (Aunt May will now be a hated character, will Gwen come back, what did MJ whisper to Mephisto, and why the hell is magic playing a role in Spider-man's life?) but it's all said and done and now I have to make a decision if I will continue with the main Spider-man titles and at this point I have no idea if I will.

One thing that does upset me about all of this is solely that Joe Q is wrong. Peter is the everyman, he's a guy who will settle down, he's a family man and a husband and the Peter Parker that we had in the Marvel Universe was the natural progression of the character. The big argument fans have been putting out there is that if you need to see a younger, single Peter Parker you should go read Ultimate Spider-man and in his OMD interview Joe denies this but also tells fans that if they want to see an older Peter Parker they should go read Spider-girl. He completely contradicts himself with that statement and it's very hard to watch him take the icon of the Marvel U and taint him. Spider-man has been a complete shadow lately just moving from big event to big event without any lasting story. From the other, to unmasking to back in black, to this. This isn't about Peter and Mary Jane this is about lazy ideas and lazy stories.

I don't even know what to think anymore. The main reason Spider-man was my favorite hero is because he wasn't the hero. Peter Parker was. Peter was a stand-up guy who would always make the right decision no matter what, he wouldn't be selfish, he would do what's right. That's the hero I looked up to.

And all of a sudden that man is gone.

[keithm]

You make some completely valid points, but I'll offer up a few rebuttals. On the issue of divorcing or killing MJ, Quesada has explained that the only thing that seems older and less relatable than a married Peter is a divorced or widowed Peter. Additionally Peter getting divorced would've had a PR nightmare on their hands, and Peter is a character so defined by death that it would've become a joke.

As for the child, I don't think that the girl was intended to be the baby that Norman took. I think she was supposed to be a yet to be born child of Pete and MJ.

Also, your 4th point, Quesada and Wacker have explicitly stated that this is not the case. It's not 20 years ago. It's today. Peter is still in his mid-late 20's. He was a teacher, he's graduated from college, etc.

Most important is your first point though. You're claiming that it would've been more in character for Peter to let May die and then move on with his life? Peter is a character defined by his guilt. If he were given the chance to save Ben of course he would do it, no matter what the cost. After living his whole life with the guilt that he could have stopped his "father" from dying, he'd give up anything to not be responsible for the death of his "mother." Also, Pete has always been something of a self-destructive character. Once he knew that MJ was ok with his decision, he'd give up his own happiness without a second thought.

[poltah]

I still don't think Mephisto makes NO sense in that story. I understand his function, but I don't get why he would suddenly pop up and be all like "I want ya' MARRIAGE!!!!11!1!!!".
Wha?

[humphrey-lee]

Much better than "okay".

Nah, it really wasn't. For every bit of emotion and poignancy it had, it hit you in the face with redundant dialogue or just obvious "harrowing" attention grabs like the whole thing with the unborn child. Most of the comic seemed to spend its time pointing out how "unfathomable" the whole situation was which couldn't help but make my mind go back to how stupid the overall story and events that drive it are in general. Of course, now that we all know JMS' thoughts on having to write it, the intentionality of this seems sadly apparent...

[psu18660]

Long time listener, first time threader
I have yet to see a good word written (or spoken) about the Spiderman retcon. Seeing as the recent video podcast dealt with continuity, I found it funny that with this new place the Spiderman books are in, it seems like they have gone back in time. i.e. Peter is living with Aunt May, so that makes him what age?
What year is it? The whole thing to me seems like a train that has come off the tracks. I have read and understand the position they were in with writing it, (JMS wanted his name taken off the project), and JoeQ and editorial having to write parts of the story, but that doesn't change the fact that this book was a pile of brainless, dickless, hopeless, heartless, fat-ass, bug-eyed, stiff-legged, spotty-lipped, worm-headed sack of monkey shit.

How about a story where nothing happens, (a la Seinfeld)?

[labor_days]

Nevermind.

http://blogudeces.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/spiderman_wtf.jpg

edit: The iron hand of moderation! =)

[conorkilpatrick]

Long time listener, first time threader
I have yet to see a good word written (or spoken) about the Spiderman retcon. Seeing as the recent video podcast dealt with continuity, I found it funny that with this new place the Spiderman books are in, it seems like they have gone back in time. i.e. Peter is living with Aunt May, so that makes him what age?
What year is it?

He is the same age he was before One More Day - whatever nebulous mid-20s age he is. It's the same year as it is in every other Marvel Universe book.

[labor_days]

I thought Peter was in his early 30's. When he worked at the high school he said something to that effect to one of the kids.

[conorkilpatrick]

I thought Peter was in his early 30's. When he worked at the high school he said something to that effect to one of the kids.

If he is that's awful and all the more reason to reboot him.

I've never read him that way. I've seen his age listed all over the place on-line, I don't think anyone really knows.

[labor_days]

Oh, I figured he was around late 20s/early 30s-ish. Not like 35 or anything. More 29-31 years old. But that's just my perception. Seemed about right given how long he's been around (he left HS & Collage a while ago in continuity), his marriage and the fact he was now working in a school after working at the Bugle for years. Didn't seem unreasonable to think the guy was at least 29 or so.

I don't mind him being younger though. It's all good with me.

[cam-]

Disregarding everything else about the book...(the consequences, the character problems, etc.etc.)

I gotta say, the book really made me sad. Sad that most of my Spiderman reading time has been "removed"? Sure.

But really? Sad for Peter and MJ.

You've gotta say something for a book that genuinely makes you feel. (or in the case me) IT doesn't happen often.

That being said, I read it in the store.:D

[cam-]

If he is that's awful and all the more reason to reboot him.

I've never read him that way. I've seen his age listed all over the place on-line, I don't think anyone really knows.

Hey I'm 31 and married too, do you want to reboot me?

(I've got plenty of young fans too)

[conorkilpatrick]

Hey I'm 31 and married too, do you want to reboot me?

(I've got plenty of young fans too)

Are you Spider-Man? If not, then no.

[labor_days]

Seems to me they gave themselves an "out" of the whole broken marriage thing.

For one, it's the MOTHERFRAKKIN' DEVIL Spidey made a deal with. Secondly, MJ's whisper in the ear of the MOTHERFRAKKIN' DEVIL implied to me, based on the ending, that she alone remembers their marriage.

Third, Jackpot.

Forth, the most noble dude sans Cap made a deal with the MOTHERFRAKKIN' DEVIL.

[jimski]

Hey I'm 31 and married too, do you want to reboot me?

(I've got plenty of young fans too)

I'd have to see some sales figures.

The exciting CAM! thread, "One More Post," may be coming your way this week. And next month. And then several months after that.

This made me laugh out loud at work. (http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/4749490.html)

[top-of-new-york]

Recently, I have been playing around with an RSS Feed reader and have subscribed to as many of the comicbook news sites and podcasts that I could find. I have been bombarded with "One More Day" and "Brand New Day"! The amount of activity is astounding and I am loving it. This is the voice of the people.

What I am not loving is the corporate "kool aid" that is being "poured out" for the fans to "drink". I just finished listening to a podcast with one of the Brand New Day writers where he says, "In the end that can only be a good thing... it can only be good, it can only get people talking, it can only get people curious"

When I hear that, I hear spin doctoring. That sabotaging a major series results in more sales and more interest in the general public. That you can take a loved icon and repackage it in ugliness and say, "There! I got you to notice! Isn't that great?"

I read the Joe Q interview and I understand that Marvel would want a timeless "Peter Pan" character that never grows up and will be a comodity to sell to new readers for future generations. I would prefer growth and a possible legacy where we see Peter hand his webshooters to his daughter- but I suppose that's just my opinion (that may or may not be shared with many others).

Since Joe Q is the chief, he gets what he asks for and we'll just have to grin and bear it- except we don't have to buy it.

I read the last word from JMS and I am ready to present my ruling:

Joe Q is guilty of the offense of retconning. His approach was ham-fisted malarky. Using magic to change what he doesn't like is the stuff of 5-year-olds shouting, "Bang! I shot you."
"Nuh-uh. That bounced off of me!"

JMS is guilty of the offense of retconning. His approach would have been more elegant but it would have removed 20 years of history. Gwen Stacy would have been alive and her children would never have been conceived. Harry would have been alive and MJ would not have broken up with him to go with Peter. History would have been reworked and we'd have "The Untold Tales of Spider-man" to catch up on and fill our longboxes. The end result is the same: no character development.

I know that these are comicbooks and not novels. That comics can be great works of fiction is my pipe dream. I'm still disappointed and I don't want to hear that my disappointment "can only be a good thing."

[conorkilpatrick]

I read the Joe Q interview and I understand that Marvel would want a timeless "Peter Pan" character that never grows up and will be a comodity to sell to new readers for future generations. I would prefer growth and a possible legacy where we see Peter hand his webshooters to his daughter- but I suppose that's just my opinion (that may or may not be shared with many others).

Marvel already publishes that book: Spider-Girl.


I know that these are comicbooks and not novels. That comics can be great works of fiction is my pipe dream.

Your pipe dream has been a reality for over 20 years now.

[labor_days]

wow. just wow.

[baldmonkey]

I still don't think Mephisto makes NO sense in that story. I understand his function, but I don't get why he would suddenly pop up and be all like "I want ya' MARRIAGE!!!!11!1!!!".
Wha?

That is silly. But even sillier is the "and I will make people forget that you are spider-man, and I will bring back Harry Osborn..... and thats not all, If you take this offer right now I will throw in your old web shooters in the deal".

[davegraham]

Some funny Shortpacked (http://www.shortpacked.com/index.html) based on One More Day...

...two of them (http://www.toynewsi.com/news.php?catid=242&itemid=12279).

Good for a chuckle.

[top-of-new-york]

Marvel already publishes that book: Spider-Girl..

Except that Spider-Girl never happened. Spider-man forgot that he loved Mary Jane (http://www.shortpacked.com/d/20080107.html).

Spider-Girl is now in the What If...? series... which are fun books because they really don't have any relevance. Kitty Pride totally killed Wolverine in one of those books!1!

Your pipe dream has been a reality for over 20 years now.

Maybe in the alternative section of my local comicbook store... but the "mainstream" publishers are givin' the comics a bad name and then sending the press release to the NY Times.

[conorkilpatrick]

Except that Spider-Girl never happened. Spider-man forgot that he loved Mary Jane (http://www.shortpacked.com/d/20080107.html).

Spider-Girl is now in the What If...? series... which are fun books because they really don't have any relevance. Kitty Pride totally killed Wolverine in one of those books!1!

Spider-Girl has always been an alternate future book. But if that's the story you want to read, there it is.


Maybe in the alternative section of my local comicbook store... but the "mainstream" publishers are givin' the comics a bad name and then sending the press release to the NY Times.

We don't live in the same reality, I don't think.

[gungadin]

We don't live in the same reality, I don't think.

I agree with Conor, while it's not as mainstream as I would like, it's certainly much, much more popular and taken seriously than people would realize...

[itsbecca]

We don't live in the same reality, I don't think.

This is, by far, my favorite response that Conor pulls out when he's just baffled.

But I do have to agree. I think a look through my monthly stack would provide a fair cross section of wide genre of comics. I pick up indies as well as offerings from the big two (superheros and other universes alike [ala vertigo]). Sure there's been the bad, but there's been the damn good too. To make such a statement seems so cynical.

[tad]

But I believe that first and foremost Marvel needs to be making good stories with people like me in mind.

No. Traditionally whenever the companies write for the fans the results are lackluster. The Spider-man writers just need to concentrate on good stories. Although you have every right to be upset with what was done, being upset with what you think is going to happen is just raising your blood pressure.

Peter's age: Dan Slott talks about Brand New Day and says Peter's thirty. He might have said, "in his thirties." Thirties? Living at "Mom's?" Hmm. How big do you think his comic collection is? :rolleyes:

This story hurt fans. I don't think it hurt Spider-man. When I hear the description of the cast of BND it sounds like a pretty cool place to start a comic, except that he's too old.

I don't read Spidey anymore or I'd be one of those really upset. But I think it's ridiculous for the company line to be, "All those stories you loved happened but they just weren't married." Y'know, I tend to like time travel stories and enjoy the kind of somersaults authors do to explain away time paradoxes. But almost every one involves the idea if you change one thing, it's like dominoes, all that comes after may be affected. The bigger the change, the bigger the repercussions. Joe Q should just say, "We did what we did to reset the universe, we tried to do it with the fans in mind. People may disagree with it but I know one thing - we have great stories coming up and that's what counts." Then never speak again.

[tad]

And I don't think the iFanboys will say much more about this on the podcasts until they get some new stories to comment on.

[conorkilpatrick]

Peter's age: Dan Slott talks about Brand New Day and says Peter's thirty. He might have said, "in his thirties." Thirties? Living at "Mom's?" Hmm. How big do you think his comic collection is? :rolleyes:

This story hurt fans. I don't think it hurt Spider-man. When I hear the description of the cast of BND it sounds like a pretty cool place to start a comic, except that he's too old.

If he's 30 he's definitely too old. They half-assed this - he should have been rebooted back to a younger age like the original rumors said.

We'll find out in two days, I guess.

[gungadin]

If he's 30 he's definitely too old. They half-assed this - he should have been rebooted back to a younger age like the original rumors said.

We'll find out in two days, I guess.

He should be 27... AT MOST...

I'd prefer him at 24 or 25 myself...

[top-of-new-york]

Spider-Girl has always been an alternate future book. But if that's the story you want to read, there it is.

I'm honestly not too interested in reading that particular alternate future book. I have read Dark Knight Returns and Kingdom Come- and I do see how alternate futures can provide great stories. I was interested in seeing a developing story in the existing dominant Marvel Universe and I'm critical of rebooting the Spider-man character in the existing universe. I'm wondering how the New Avengers will deal with the disappearance of Spidey since the BND preview on MySpace seems to hint that Spidey has been out of the action for months now.

An alternate book where Spider-Man is single could be the Ultimate Spider-Man, which I do read. So maybe Joe Q didn't have to reboot anything at all. Just increase the publication schedule of Ultimate Spider-man to 3 times a month and get everybody on board as Spidey is macking on all the chicks and worrying about his aunt May.

We don't live in the same reality, I don't think.

You have truly shamed me. ;)

I may be a bit extreme in saying that "mainstream gives comics a bad name" - but I would say that some of the decisions that a mainstream publisher would make in order to maintain the commodity of a character (like Spider-Man) are laughable:

I understand [Mephisto's] function, but I don't get why he would suddenly pop up and be all like "I want ya' MARRIAGE!!!!11!1!!!".
Wha?

But even sillier is the "and I will make people forget that you are spider-man, and I will bring back Harry Osborn..... and thats not all, If you take this offer right now I will throw in your old web shooters in the deal".

I know that JMS was not satisfied with the execution of the story because of what has been mentioned above by baldmonkey.

Oh well. Here's hopin' that Harry is actually Mephisto in disguise and that Dr. Strange will undo the magical "fix". Avengers: The Initiative #7 was was doing something to add doubt to the unmasking of Spider-Man... maybe they're just hedging their bet.

[conorkilpatrick]

I'm honestly not too interested in reading that particular alternate future book. I have read Dark Knight Returns and Kingdom Come- and I do see how alternate futures can provide great stories. I was interested in seeing a developing story in the existing dominant Marvel Universe and I'm critical of rebooting the Spider-man character in the existing universe.

You can't age a character like Spider-Man like that in the main books. You just can't. You can't ever have Peter grow old and hand his mantle down to his daughter. It will never happen. It's not the Marvel ethos and all you are doing is killing a character for new fans to enjoy in order please a handful of people.

[gungadin]

You can't age a character like Spider-Man like that in the main books. You just can't. You can't ever have Peter grow old and hand his mantle down to his daughter. It will never happen. It's not the Marvel ethos and all you are doing is killing a character for new fans to enjoy in order please a handful of people.

You could say the same thing about Batman....

NY: Did you read Spider-man Reign?

[conorkilpatrick]

You could say the same thing about Batman....

I don't understand what that means...?

[gungadin]

I don't understand what that means...?

Batman can't get old in continuity... That'd kinda... you know... kill his character. You can make him older, but you can't make him old... That's why Dark Knight is (supposedly and I think canonically if you look at the Miller references) non continuity. It's Batman being all old and junk...

You could also do Batman Beyond, but that'd have to be FAR in the future and all that... And perhaps removed from continuity...

[luthor]

I haven't really been paying attention to this thread because the more I think about OMD the bigger the headache gets...but I thought this might prove handy:

From Newsarama (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=142267):

http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Spider-Man/BND/Statusquo.jpg

[conorkilpatrick]

Batman can't get old in continuity... That'd kinda... you know... kill his character. You can make him older, but you can't make him old... That's why Dark Knight is (supposedly and I think canonically if you look at the Miller references) non continuity. It's Batman being all old and junk...

You could also do Batman Beyond, but that'd have to be FAR in the future and all that... And perhaps removed from continuity...

Dark Knight Returns is definitely not in continuity.

You can't really age any of the BIG TIME characters - those that the general public knows the secret identities of. Superman, Batman, Spider-Man... that might be it.

[psu18660]

You could also do Batman Beyond, but that'd have to be FAR in the future and all that... And perhaps removed from continuity...

BND was a cluster f*ck.
You know what I think they should do is kill off Spiderman because that is a totally satisfying story line. Really creative too. It's like "no one is going to see that coming". You know like they did with Captain America and Superman. Wasn't that cool when they did that?

[luthor]

You know what I think they should do is kill off Spiderman because that is a totally satisfying story line.
If Peter or Mary Jane had been the had been on the verge of death, and Mephisto came to them saying, "I can make him/her better all you have to do is give up your marriage" I think a lot of the furor would be diminished.

[psu18660]

It was just such a lame idea. For Marvel, this is your premier, number one character and this is the best you can come up with? Also I think JoeQ's pencils are great for action scenes, (the Iron Man fight), but lets have them spend 4 issues running around hallways. He was almost never in costume being spiderman. He was crying and running around hallways being lameman.

[tad]

Dark Knight Returns is definitely not in continuity.



Actually, at the time when interviewers talked about the alternate reality of Batman, Miller cheekily said, "I never said it was an alternate reality." He was being cheeky of course but it was his way of pointing out that if you aged Batman from his origin in 1939 he'd roughly be the age of Batman in DKR.

A universe where characters aged and passed on their role to younger characters, or were replaced by others would be an interesting universe but it flies in the face of merchandising and increasing circulation.

[labor_days]

Ok, so...if nobody knows Spidey unmasked during CW- did Spidey participate in Civil War as he did?

Were all the conversations he had regarding his identity, his alliance & fallout with Iron Man, that fact he went to prison to beat up Kingpin (who spent a fortune on getting at Spidey), Spidey's status as a New Avenger on the run; all not happen?

Going further back- did The Other not happen? He's back to having self made web shooters.

[luthor]

Ok, so...if nobody knows Spidey unmasked during CW- did Spidey participate in Civil War as he did?

Were all the conversations he had regarding his identity, his alliance & fallout with Iron Man, that fact he went to prison to beat up Kingpin (who spent a fortune on getting at Spidey), Spidey's status as a New Avenger on the run; all not happen?

Going further back- did The Other not happen? He's back to having self made web shooters.

The answers to all of these questions appear to be no.

[labor_days]

Hmm. Were I a regular Spider-Man reader I too might consider this OMD thing somewhat cheap and ham-fisted from a storytelling pov. But luckily, ignorance of such things is bliss.

Spider-Man made a deal with the DEVIL. Literally. /shakes head

[jimski]

http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/isp/isp126/businessman-banging-his-head-against-the-wall-~-ispc026073.jpg

[tavella]

Well that's fine. If you feel that BND itself will be bad, then by all means avoid it. I just don't think it's fair to bail on Slott and the gang based on the trainwreck that OMD was (which I fully agree wilth. OMD was a horrible story). I just don't think people should feel so personally attacked by the retcon. It was a necessary evil to get Spidey to a workable place again.

Thing is... Slott has said that this is the Spidey he wants to write, and he was involved in OMD. So it's not like he's some victim here, he thinks this is a good idea too.

[charlesdacriticczar]

i love spidey and all...but didn't we do this already...thats kinda silly. how come you can actually do a bunch of crazy stuff to daredevil and the x-men but anything thats been changed to spidey in the last 20 years hasn't happened....except him dating mj and gwen dying...thats bad storytelling and makes the character that less interesting because there aren't any real stakes to anything that happens cause they're just gonna retcon it in a year....hmmmm maybe its just me but i'm not really interested in getting spidey stories i read when i was a little kid. can't wait to download the brand new day, cause ya aint gettin my money for that.:p:rolleyes:

[luthor]

This made me chortle:

http://toynewsi.com/news.php?catid=242&itemid=12279

[six-gun]

If he's basically the sneaky member of the NA that no one knows who exactly he is, but e's still part of the team then this could work... plus, McNiven is drawing it so that's a plus.

[charlesdacriticczar]

If he's basically the sneaky member of the NA that no one knows who exactly he is, but e's still part of the team then this could work... plus, McNiven is drawing it so that's a plus.


i don't know cause they made such a big deal with cage not trusting anybody so i don't think he'd be so trusting of a guy who won't even tell them his name, especially when he knows everybody else's....i mean looking from the outside the guy was already in bed with tony and you not knowing his true identity just aint smart. that is considering pete actually fought with caps side or he just decided to sit it out....man and spidey's part was the only interesting part of civil war even though it made me mad...oh well.:rolleyes:

[six-gun]

i don't know cause they made such a big deal with cage not trusting anybody so i don't think he'd be so trusting of a guy who won't even tell them his name, especially when he knows everybody else's....i mean looking from the outside the guy was already in bed with tony and you not knowing his true identity just aint smart. that is considering pete actually fought with caps side or he just decided to sit it out....man and spidey's part was the only interesting part of civil war even though it made me mad...oh well.:rolleyes:

gahhhhhhh head hurts!

[racemccloud]

Two things:

1.) The last issue of "One More Day": beautiful.

2.) This thread seems to no longer be about "One More Day". The thread is dead. Long live the thread!

[top-of-new-york]

Hmm. Were I a regular Spider-Man reader I too might consider this OMD thing somewhat cheap and ham-fisted from a storytelling pov. But luckily, ignorance of such things is bliss.

I envy you, Labor Days. :)

[top-of-new-york]

NY: Did you read Spider-man Reign?

I have not read it. Would you recommend it or should I avoid it?

[top-of-new-york]

You can't age a character like Spider-Man like that in the main books. You just can't. You can't ever have Peter grow old and hand his mantle down to his daughter. It will never happen. It's not the Marvel ethos and all you are doing is killing a character for new fans to enjoy in order please a handful of people.

I understand your point of view and I respect it. I'm not sure if it's a handful of people- but I do understand how Marvel will want to keep the property young.

[gungadin]

I have not read it. Would you recommend it or should I avoid it?

I haven't read it either... But people love it. It's supposedly the Spider-man version of "Dark Knight" because Spidey's old and he has to come back to kick bad guy @$$.... It's on my list of things to read...

That's Spidey being old...

[poltah]

This whole deal is actually a perfect example, to me, why I don't think a comic like Spider-Man is art. It can and could evolve into art, but with stuff like this it's just: "Alright guys. Our character is growing, he's actually a human being. I know some of you might think that character growth is a good thing, but sadly no. What we do need is for Spider-Man to make a deal with the devil. Yes, I know he would never do that, but the thing is that Harry Osborn will come back as well. Why you ask? Because Mephisto is the devil, and the devil brings back your long dead friends / enemies when he makes you forget about your wife. It's in the bible... ehm, somewhere. How do you all feel about actually retconning Mary Jane into becoming Spider-Woman, instead of Peter Parker becoming Spider-Man? Did anybody say summer event 2009? Eh? Eh? Now, to discuss The Hulk. Planet Saakar is a no go, the warbound are gonna be war-forgotton, and Betty Brant is back, and she's married to the Leader."

[poltah]

I understand your point of view and I respect it. I'm not sure if it's a handful of people- but I do understand how Marvel will want to keep the property young.

The thing is that they can keep him young, without doing shit like this. I mean, if they have to do this to keep Peter young. Then they have to do something like that to every single Marvel character out there. Because none of them really age that much.