'Spider-Man: One More Day'

[nick-b]

So I just read it and was a little underwhelmed. Instead of feeling like the start of something new, radical and character changing it just felt like a retread of the last six issues (or how every many we've had since civil war).

So did you guys read it? What did you think?

[kahunablair]

Well it is the first part of a four issue series, so I wasn't shocked the radical change didn't happen in this issue.
I still thought it was horrible though.
The Art was disturbing. When did Peter become Popeye?
The coloring was very 90s, I don't think I've seen that much teal in ages.
And didn't the whole scene with Peter and Tony in the alley already happen a few months ago? Or did I read that in a preview?

[labor_days]

Well, I didn't like the pencils (fairly tight though) but the coloring and inking were pretty good.

Story, les terrible.

[cormano]

The Art was disturbing. When did Peter become Popeye?

Seriously, this art was bad. Peter's face looked weird in every panel.

[mikegraham6]

Or did I read that in a preview?

it was in the free comic book day spider-man issue.
Well, I didn't like the pencils (fairly tight though) but the coloring and inking were pretty good.

it was an excellent inking job and the colours were great too

[kahunablair]

it was in the free comic book day spider-man issue.

Really? Ok then. That explains why I couldn't find it in the actual back issues. I thought I was suffering a evil case of deja vu.

[racemccloud]

What's with all the negativity? I thought, two thumbs up. Liked the story, liked the art. I think it's time for JMS to leave the book, only because he's reached that tipping point where he can do no right by the fans; criticism of him is reaching "Comic-Book Guy" levels ("Worst... Spidey... Ever"). Bottom line, I liked (and bought) the Tony/Peter dynamic, I thought JMS addressed (at least in part) the big message-board grievance that "somebody in the hospital will recognize Peter" in the scenes with the doctor, and I want to know what's going to happen next. I am interested and on-board.

[mrugly]

I felt as though I should have gotten something more that would make me want to pick up the next installment. However, I just feel like I waisted $3.99. And no, I am not trying to be "Comic Book Guy", but I really can not find the good in this book. I'll probably be obnoxious and read the next one in the store instead of buying it.

[itsbecca]

I felt like the story was... comporable to the previous spidey lines (except FNSM... which I liked) which is a dissapointment. I guess at least it is in character, but I'm so bored with this vengeful Peter that we've seen so many times before. Does he have to go through this for every single person in his life? MJ also felt completley flat for me. You could've completley removed her from the book and it would've made no difference at all. Aaaand the art completley turned me off.

I'll buy the rest of the mini b/c I want to keep up on the character, but I'm not that excited for it. That really annoys me. Hopefully the next issue ramps it up a bit.

[labor_days]

"Keep buying till it gets good", the albatross of all comic book fans.

[paper]

It's like a summer barbecue. Kicking back with a lemonade, watching the flies kamikaze at the bug zapper. It's ASM. Of course it's bad.

[aleks07]

Has anybody else read Amazing Spider-man #400 ?

I think DeMatteis nailed Peter and May's "one more day". Also having Bagley show all the emotion in Peter and Ben Reilly complemented the storytelling.

[mikegraham6]

the fact that they used up the last 4 pages of this issue to retell the ENTIRE Spider-Man backstory pretty much has me convinced they are going through with the reboot

[davegraham]

It undid almost everything that the last arc was about. Now, the last arc was awful, but I have to think that JMS, at least, thought it was a story worth telling. What was the point of even telling that story if the consequences of it were going to be lifted in the first issue of that next arc? I am confused. Other than the plot being a bit wonky, I was pleased with the scenes. Peter and MJ, Iron Man and Spider-man, and Jarvis showing up was all enjoyable enough. I didn't like Quesada's art at all (I don't think I have read anything else by him). The issue was passable, barely.

Now I am going to ask a dumb question, but when does this happen? Aunt May was shot immediately after the final battle in Civil War. So when did Spider-man find the time to play cards with the New Avengers while mourning Cap, fight ninjas in Japan, and crash in Iron Fist's jet with dead Skrull in toe? I usually let continuity sort it self out but this is stretching my patience.

[mikegraham6]

Now I am going to ask a dumb question, but when does this happen? Aunt May was shot immediately after the final battle in Civil War. So when did Spider-man find the time to play cards with the New Avengers while mourning Cap, fight ninjas in Japan, and crash in Iron Fist's jet with dead Skrull in toe? I usually let continuity sort it self out but this is stretching my patience.

well in everything you mentioned he was wearing the black costume and with this new issue of ASM he's gone back to the red and blue so im guess all that happened before (which makes even less sense)

[davegraham]

Has anybody else read Amazing Spider-man #400?

Yeah, I was thinking, "The Death of Aunt May was much better the first time," on almost every page of this issue. And Amazing #400 was right smack dab in the middle of the Clone Saga. Go figure.

well in everything you mentioned he was wearing the black costume and with this new issue of ASM he's gone back to the red and blue so im guess all that happened before (which makes even less sense)

Duh, that makes sense. I didn't pick up on the red and blue cotume. However, with the New Avengers, why wasn't he as enraged as he was as Punisher/Spider-man in Amazing? Is Spider-man bi-polar?

[kahunablair]

Is Spider-man bi-polar?

Nope, just being handled poorly.

[mikegraham6]

Nope, just being handled poorly.

seconded. I can't believe Marvel is treating their flagship character this way... Where are the editors??? Why aren't they doing their job?!?

EDIT: i guess their too busy drawing shitty issues of spider-man to realize how shitty it actually is (okay im done bashing this book, i hate being so negative)

[davegraham]

Nope, just being handled poorly.

I disagree with the generality of that statement. I don't think he is being handled well in his own titles, but I think Bendis is handling him very nicely in New Avengers.

Probably not, but does anyone know how a reboot will impact Spidey's New Avenger status? I imagine he wouldn't be on the team any more. However, stranger things than letting a minor fight crime on a team of illegal superheroes happens often in comic books.

[mikegraham6]

I disagree with the generality of that statement. I don't think he is being handled well in his own titles, but I think Bendis is handling him very nicely in New Avengers.

Probably not, but does anyone know how a reboot will impact Spidey's New Avenger status? I imagine he wouldn't be on the team any more. However, stranger things than letting a minor fight crime on a team of illegal superheroes happens often in comic books.
if he's wearing a mask, who can tell he's a minor???

[kahunablair]

I disagree with the generality of that statement. I don't think he is being handled well in his own titles, but I think Bendis is handling him very nicely in New Avengers.

Probably not, but does anyone know how a reboot will impact Spidey's New Avenger status? I imagine he wouldn't be on the team any more. However, stranger things than letting a minor fight crime on a team of illegal superheroes happens often in comic books.

I wasn't really taking a shot at Bendis' Spidey. As a matter of fact he's the version I want to see all the time.
The fact that there is 8 versions of Spiderman is what I'm referring to. There is no consistency in the character anymore. It feels like they know the reboot is coming so they're letting all the writers have a go telling different crazy Spiderman stories. They know it will be wiped clean so why not, right?

[paper]

if he's wearing a mask, who can tell he's a minor???

I've heard Fred say that on so many occasions. Different context entirely, but still.

;)

[kahunablair]

if he's wearing a mask, who can tell he's a minor???

By the way his voice cracks.


I've heard Fred say that on so many occasions. Different context entirely, but still.

;)

Oddly enough that doesn't hold up in court as well as he let's on like it does.

[mikegraham6]

By the way his voice cracks.

It all matters on how the reboot is going to be handled really. If everyone stays the same and one peter's personal life changes then sure maybe Luke Cage will mention in passing that Spidey's voice sounds wierd, but it's not really a big deal.
If all reality changes and the public perseption of spidey is back to the way it was in the 60s, then more than likely he won't be on the avengers. although thinking of it in that context, it just sounds more ridiculous. It's reality warping akin to House of M in that respect

[kahunablair]

If all reality changes and the public perseption of spidey is back to the way it was in the 60s, then more than likely he won't be on the avengers. although thinking of it in that context, it just sounds more ridiculous. It's reality warping akin to House of M in that respect

How was he handled in the 60s? Wasn't he still a "Menace" back then?
The fact he wasn't well liked in the beginning of New Avengers, and the way Cap used that was probably my favorite part of the series.

[davegraham]

if he's wearing a mask, who can tell he's a minor???

I would assume the New Avengers would know his real identity and they would be (at the very least) apprehensive about endangering a youth. Also, in theory, their minds would be warped to a state where they would not know Peter. The whole point of the reboot is to bring him back to the character he was when he was a teenager. The loner/loser type. If reality is warped so the team does remember him but the only thing that changed is he is younger, unmarried, and the world does not know his identity, then the reboot is selective and self-serving. It would be a convenient plot device, rather than a Spider-man story.

I am trying really hard not to judge this story before it is finished, but every time I think about the consequences of it, my mind goes to bad thoughts. Maybe I am just being negative.

[mikegraham6]

I would assume the New Avengers would know his real identity and they would be (at the very least) apprehensive about endangering a youth. Also, in theory, their minds would be warped to a state where they would not know Peter. The whole point of the reboot is to bring him back to the character he was when he was a teenager. The loner/loser type. If reality is warped so the team does remember him but the only thing that changed is he is younger, unmarried, and the world does not know his identity, then the reboot is selective and self-serving. It would be a convenient plot device, rather than a Spider-man story.

I am trying really hard not to judge this story before it is finished, but every time I think about the consequences of it, my mind goes to bad thoughts. Maybe I am just being negative.

That's the kicker, it all matters on how this reboot is going to take place, because if we are going to starting from scratch all over again, what makes the 616 spidey any different from the ulitmate spidey?

[davegraham]

That's the kicker, it all matters on how this reboot is going to take place, because if we are going to starting from scratch all over again, what makes the 616 spidey any different from the ulitmate spidey?

That has been my point ever since a reboot has been rumored. Why not change the title to Ultimate Amazing Spider-man after the reboot?

To me, it is an all or nothing thing. Making him a teen, undoes everything he has done since he left high school. Anything less makes this thing seem more like a stunt than a story. He has contributed to a lot of Marvel continuity. How is all of that going to make sense? Well, the Infinity Gauntlet/Cosmic Cube/Mephisto pact can undo and redo continuity willy nilly. I do buy that much. However that happenening isn't a story. The reasons for it and its consquences are the story. At this point in the story, Peter's resons for undoing reality is to help May and to make his identity a secret again. To do that he would be trading the good he has done and the life he has had with his wife (even though JoeQ may hate that life, I have to think that Peter has enjoyed the time he has had married to MJ).

See, the more I pick at this thing the worse it makes me feel about where it is going. However there is a lot more of the story to tell and a chance for it to go well.

[mikegraham6]

what if this reboot happens, peter is de-aged, his marriage never existed and gwen stacey comes back to life...BUT peter remembers everything from his old life? that could prove to be interesting. Does Peter reconnect with his "wife" or does he try to rekindle that lost true love that's been haunting him for years?

[conorkilpatrick]

what if this reboot happens, peter is de-aged, his marriage never existed and gwen stacey comes back to life...BUT peter remembers everything from his old life? that could prove to be interesting. Does Peter reconnect with his "wife" or does he try to rekindle that lost true love that's been haunting him for years?

It is questions like this that have me so excited for a possible reboot.

[mikegraham6]

It is questions like this that have me so excited for a possible reboot.

i think that kind of story would be great and it's right up Spider-Man's alley BUT i think we'd need a really good writer to tackle this, this kind of story doesn't just write itself

[drwally]

This entire discussion makes me wonder intensely what Bendis is saying in the Marvel offices. In my fervid imagination, I just hear him saying, "What are you people, ****-ING CRAZY?? JMS makes a mess, and I have to clean up when you can't even get my books out on time???"

But who knows. I sure would like to be fly on the wall when this is discussed with Bendis in the room... If it does happen (and I am actually thinking it just will not, the whole thing smells heavily like a trial balloon, now speeding down to the ground), Bendis will just write something in the Avegers where Luke Cage says,

"Wait a minute, how the old are you?" And Spidey just says, "Oh, don't ask, it's this whole big frakata thing...anyway, what were saying about this other skrull thing?"

[conorkilpatrick]

i think that kind of story would be great and it's right up Spider-Man's alley BUT i think we'd need a really good writer to tackle this, this kind of story doesn't just write itself

That'll be Dan Slott, Zeb Wells, Bob Gale, and Marc Guggenheim's job.

[davegraham]

what if this reboot happens, peter is de-aged, his marriage never existed and gwen stacey comes back to life...BUT peter remembers everything from his old life? that could prove to be interesting. Does Peter reconnect with his "wife" or does he try to rekindle that lost true love that's been haunting him for years?

That would keep Gwen Stacy's death a significant part of continuity, which I think must be upheld (but I don't see how else to do it). However that adds a weird Quantum Leap-like element to the character of Spider-man for as long as the reboot is in effect. Also making Spider-man a somewhat morally heavy sci-fi character and less the everyman with superpowers that he has always been.

[conorkilpatrick]

This entire discussion makes me wonder intensely what Bendis is saying in the Marvel offices. In my fervid imagination, I just hear him saying, "What are you people, ****-ING CRAZY?? JMS makes a mess, and I have to clean up when you can't even get my books out on time???"

I would bet quite a bit of money that he's into it (assuming "it" is what we think it is). He has shown no interest in writing old man Spider-Man. He writes the Marvel Universe Spider-Man just like Ultimate Spider-Man.

[conorkilpatrick]

That would keep Gwen Stacy's death a significant part of continuity, which I think must be upheld (but I don't see how else to do it). However that adds a weird Quantum Leap-like element to the character of Spider-man for as long as the reboot is in effect. Also making Spider-man a somewhat morally heavy sci-fi character and less the everyman with superpowers that he has always been.

He's still an everyman in that scenerio.

[fred]

Oddly enough that doesn't hold up in court as well as he let's on like it does.

this is true

[drwally]

That would keep Gwen Stacy's death a significant part of continuity, which I think must be upheld (but I don't see how else to do it). However that adds a weird Quantum Leap-like element to the character of Spider-man for as long as the reboot is in effect. Also making Spider-man a somewhat morally heavy sci-fi character and less the everyman with superpowers that he has always been.

The more this gets discussed, the less I like it. Marvel has multiple Spider-Man titles (maybe too many) and they can just solve this problem by writing Spider-Man tales like Loeb did with Spider-Man Blue, Daredevil Yellow, etc., which add to continuiity by setting stories in the past, rather than turning current continutity everything upside down and do what always screws things up -

Totally disprupt the work or other writer's in other books because some guy on just one book had a momentary story idea that will probably be undone in a year. thumbs down.

[conorkilpatrick]

The more this gets discussed, the less I like it. Marvel has multiple Spider-Man titles (maybe too many) ... Totally disprupt the work or other writer's in other books because some guy on just one book had a momentary story idea that will probably be undone in a year. thumbs down.

Except... not. All of the Spider-Man books are being consolidated into one - Amazing Spider-Man, that will come out three times a month.

Quesada started the slides with One More Day, showing the Mary Jane-and-Spider-Man-separated by words promotional image and some of the upcoming covers. He says it'll "lead Spider-Man to a pretty interesting place."

This led to talk of "Brand New Day," with Wacker talking about how the four new writers have created a year to year-and-a-half long arc for Spider-Man, and how they're each going to handle different story arcs, "but the subplots will continue from week to week, from month to month."

Quesada repeated that the plan is for it to be one long soap opera, but broken into smaller story arcs that will make good trade paperbacks.

[drwally]

I would bet quite a bit of money that he's into it (assuming "it" is what we think it is). He has shown no interest in writing old man Spider-Man. He writes the Marvel Universe Spider-Man just like Ultimate Spider-Man.

Here I have to disagree (but yet agree quite a bit) - the USM that Bendis writes is the same guy as the older version in New Avengers -- but the NA version is definitely an older Peter Parker, with many references to his current, adult life. Same person, but more life experience and basic personality, but sill older.

Not his fault that other writers like JMS can't just get that simple fact, and write as well as Bendis. Adding an issue do deal with suddenly teen Peter Parker is just another diversion NA or MA does not need as it struggles to get back on a regular schedule.

My thumbs remain down.

[davegraham]

He's still an everyman in that scenerio.

Yeah, but then anytime something significant comes along he has to weigh it against what he has known to have happened and those consequences v.s. what might happen if he does it differently. While that might make the Gwen and MJ thing interesting, how does that turn off when other events occur? That is information that people like the Watcher and Layla Miller have and they are less everyman than Spider-man is.

[mikegraham6]

That would keep Gwen Stacy's death a significant part of continuity, which I think must be upheld (but I don't see how else to do it). However that adds a weird Quantum Leap-like element to the character of Spider-man for as long as the reboot is in effect. Also making Spider-man a somewhat morally heavy sci-fi character and less the everyman with superpowers that he has always been.

You know, the more i think about it, the more i feel that this is the best avenue to go down. Your right, Gwen's death is possibly the most significant thing to EVER happen to spider-man and there is abosultely no way they would remove that from continuity, everything else sure, but never the death. If they do decide to go in this direction, im with Conor, this is going to be REALLY exciting. That's right people, i have just done a complete 180 on my opinion of the reboot, i really hope they go in this direction now. My only concern is if the writers are really up for the task? I think this book would be better suited if it was handled by two writers, someone like Tony Moore for the relationship stuff (i don't if he's well suited or not, i haven't read SiP yet, but his name is the first that leaped to mind) and then someone like Guggenheim to handle the action. Stupid idea?

[drwally]

Except... not. All of the Spider-Man books are being consolidated into one - Amazing Spider-Man, that will come out three times a month.

Quesada started the slides with One More Day, showing the Mary Jane-and-Spider-Man-separated by words promotional image and some of the upcoming covers. He says it'll "lead Spider-Man to a pretty interesting place."

This led to talk of "Brand New Day," with Wacker talking about how the four new writers have created a year to year-and-a-half long arc for Spider-Man, and how they're each going to handle different story arcs, "but the subplots will continue from week to week, from month to month."

Quesada repeated that the plan is for it to be one long soap opera, but broken into smaller story arcs that will make good trade paperbacks.

Oh, Mavel doing an event that requires careful long term planning over several books...well, we have seen how well that has gone recently....

[conorkilpatrick]

My only concern is if the writers are really up for the task? I think this book would be better suited if it was handled by two writers, someone like Tony Moore for the relationship stuff (i don't if he's well suited or not, i haven't read SiP yet, but his name is the first that leaped to mind) and then someone like Guggenheim to handle the action. Stupid idea?

Terry Moore is going to be writing Mary Jane Loves Spider-Man.

[mikegraham6]

Terry Moore is going to be writing Mary Jane Loves Spider-Man.

is that book in continuity? if so, then that's probably where all the interesting shit is going to go down in my opinion

[mikegraham6]

what if this reboot happens, peter is de-aged, his marriage never existed and gwen stacey comes back to life...BUT peter remembers everything from his old life? that could prove to be interesting. Does Peter reconnect with his "wife" or does he try to rekindle that lost true love that's been haunting him for years?

the more i think about this the more i think it would fall in line with "classic" spider-man. The older spidey issues were all about things never quite went peter's way (you just need to re-watch Spider-Man 2 to remember this) and even when things go his way, something goes wrong. The problem with the new spider-man is that things were great. He was married to a supermodel, he had a decent job etc. He lost what made him special in the first place, he was the underdog.
If we put him in the scenario mentioned above, again things went his way. God gave him "one more day" right? This is all Peter ever wanted. But Things don't turn out to be a cut and dry as Peter initially thought, all these snags keep coming up and this perfect "one more day" turns out to be a burden, as Peter tries to avoid the same mistakes he had made the first time around.
I LOVE IT!

[davegraham]

Here I have to disagree (but yet agree quite a bit) - the USM that Bendis writes is the same guy as the older version in New Avengers -- but the NA version is definitely an older Peter Parker, with many references to his current, adult life. Same person, but more life experience and basic personality, but sill older.

Not his fault that other writers like JMS can't just get that simple fact, and write as well as Bendis. Adding an issue do deal with suddenly teen Peter Parker is just another diversion NA or MA does not need as it struggles to get back on a regular schedule.

My thumbs remain down.

I agree. In my mind, Bendis took Spider-man while JMS's run was really bad. Bendis gave the Spider-man a role that most people would have scoffed at, but made it interesting. Then as JMS is leaving, he walks into Quesada's office and says, "You know what, I think I have an idea on how to take Peter back to his teens." They tell Bendis and he is all, "Fine, whatever, I had him doing stuff in my Skrull story, but you guys go do your thing. *rolls his eyes* it sounds really cool."

That is how the Marvel offices are in my head.

[conorkilpatrick]

is that book in continuity? if so, then that's probably where all the interesting shit is going to go down in my opinion

No, it's not.

[redlibertyx]

When they consolidate Amazing does that mean it'll only have one creative team doing that much work? Doubtful. It's still going to be awkward as hell.

I dunno. It could be good, but I think it's a bit overkill. They should just cancel Sensational and the rest and keep Amazing a once-a-month book. But then again I advocate the cancellation of the Supes and Bats books leaving just Amazing and Detective, so what do I know?

[kahunablair]

When they consolidate Amazing does that mean it'll only have one creative team doing that much work? Doubtful. It's still going to be awkward as hell.


Here's the information from Wiki:

Following One More Day, Marvel has planned a "back to basics" approach to Spider-Man which will see Amazing Spider-Man ship three times per month. [1] There will be four creative teams initially consisting of Dan Slott and Steve McNiven, Bob Gale and Phil Jiminez, Marc Guggenheim and Salvador Larroca, and Zeb Wells and Chris Bachalo. Each creative team will be producing a story arc (6 issues) released 3 times per month. Editor Steve Wacker said in an interview with Newsarama "I'll be rotating the artists and writers so it's not always the same".

[mikegraham6]

Here's the information from Wiki:

"Back to basics" eh????:rolleyes:

[redlibertyx]

So in what way does that make it any less awkard? There already is a Spidey editor who's supposed to manage that whole continuity. Granted the teams are allowed to play by their own rules for the most part, but when they're all one one book I can just feel the amount of lateness this title's going to have.

Really it should just get release at most twice a month. That makes more sense. Three times is just continuing the deluge in the market that is Spider-Man and it cheapens the property, artistically and economically.

[kahunablair]

Brainstorm:
Peter gave Aunt May a blood transfusion right? What if she get's Spiderman powers and has to learn how to use them? She has to learn everything it takes to be a hero and balance her normal life.
Peter can go work a farm in the Midwest and pass on his legacy to the new SpiderGranny.
New Spidercharacter=Back to Basics.

Damn I'm good! ;)

[davegraham]

So in what way does that make it any less awkard? There already is a Spidey editor who's supposed to manage that whole continuity. Granted the teams are allowed to play by their own rules for the most part, but when they're all one one book I can just feel the amount of lateness this title's going to have.

Really it should just get release at most twice a month. That makes more sense. Three times is just continuing the deluge in the market that is Spider-Man and it cheapens the property, artistically and economically.

Firstly, Amazing is Marvel's response to DC doing weekly books. Twice a month is done fairly regularly and is not significant. Weekly is too much of a rip off of what DC is doing. Three times a month is enough to be 52/Countdown but not be like 52/Countdown.

Secondly, when Spider-man was in four monthly books he would be in Washington DC with Iron Man as Stark's protege, a high school teacer, snapping pics for the Daily Bugle, and having New Avenger adventures. Even in a comic book world, that is a lot to juggle and make sense.

In theory, Steve Wacker can keep it from going off the rails and I am interested in seeing him pull it off.

[kahunablair]

In theory, Steve Wacker can keep it from going off the rails and I am interested in seeing him pull it off.

Same here.
I only buy the Spiderman books now because I want to see exactly what's going to happen to bring about the Reboot. I can't wait to see what is going to actually end up happening.
I think the new format has some great potential.

[luthor]

I just read ASM 544 again...

and it sucked more the second time. I haven't read a Spider-man book regularly since before the Clone Saga(I dropped out during one of the many symbiote crossovers). Why does Marvel have such a hard time writing a likable, married Peter Parker?

Why was it guys like Erik Larson and Todd McFarlane(two guys who, at that point in their careers, were primarily known as artists) were able to deliver a believable likable, married Spider-man but Paul Jenkins, JMS and the multitude of Spider-man writers in the last 5 - 10 years can't?

[mikegraham6]

I just read ASM 544 again...

and it sucked more the second time. I haven't read a Spider-man book regularly since before the Clone Saga(I dropped out during one of the many symbiote crossovers). Why does Marvel have such a hard time writing a likable, married Peter Parker?

Why was it guys like Erik Larson and Todd McFarlane(two guys who, at that point in their careers, were primarily known as artists) were able to deliver a believable likable, married Spider-man but Paul Jenkins, JMS and the multitude of Spider-man writers in the last 5 - 10 years can't?

read Spectacular Spider-Man Annual written by Matt Fraction, it came out in the winter and did a great job illustrating a likable married and unmasked Peter Parker

[conorkilpatrick]

Why does Marvel have such a hard time writing a likable, married Peter Parker?

Married characters tend to be - from a dramatic, fiction standpoint - rather boring.

[davegraham]

Married characters tend to be - from a dramatic, fiction standpoint - rather boring.

But there are so many other married couples in comic books.

Cyclops and Jean Grey
Reed Richards and Sue Storm
Black Panther and Storm
Luke Cage and Jessica Jones
Blackbolt and Medusa
Matt Murdock and Milla
Two Flashes had/s wives (Barry Allen & Wally West)
Superman and Lois Lane
Elongated Man was married (although ending his marriage made him more interesting)
Soon to be Green Arrow and Black Canary

Why don’t people say the same thing about any of these married couples? Granted some of them do not carry their own book, but I don’t see how something like marriage can make a character less dramatic. At some point the Will They?/Won’t They? plotline will get stale, which is why characters get married off. To disrupt the status quo.

[kahunablair]

It seems like after a while the only way writers can write a married couple is to have them get divorced or kill one of the couple off....

Cyclops and Jean Grey - He's with Frost now.
Reed Richards and Sue Storm - Almost got a divorce
Black Panther and Storm - Just got married, to soon to be stale.
Luke Cage and Jessica Jones - She's a Skrull, plus the marriage is recent
Blackbolt and Medusa - They don't have to carry their own book, so it's not as big of a deal. The last book they were in Medusa leaves Blackbolt for his brother
Matt Murdock and Milla - Don't read it so I can't say anything, but isn't he single now?
Two Flashes had/s wives (Barry Allen & Wally West) - They've added kids to Barry's so thats how they freshened his storyline up. Other then that one of the good ones.
Superman and Lois Lane - Their marriage took a lot of story out of superman. She knows who he is and the fact that she didn't was part of the allure for so long. Even the movie's knew that.
Elongated Man was married (although ending his marriage made him more interesting)
Soon to be Green Arrow and Black Canary - Which isn't even happening yet, we'll see how long it lasts if they have their own books.

[labor_days]

This thread makes me want to DIE.

[conorkilpatrick]

It seems like after a while the only way writers can write a married couple is to have them get divorced or kill one of the couple off....

Cyclops and Jean Grey - He's with Frost now.
Reed Richards and Sue Storm - Almost got a divorce
Black Panther and Storm - Just got married, to soon to be stale.
Luke Cage and Jessica Jones - She's a Skrull, plus the marriage is recent
Blackbolt and Medusa - They don't have to carry their own book, so it's not as big of a deal. The last book they were in Medusa leaves Blackbolt for his brother
Matt Murdock and Milla - Don't read it so I can't say anything, but isn't he single now?
Two Flashes had/s wives (Barry Allen & Wally West) - They've added kids to Barry's so thats how they freshened his storyline up. Other then that one of the good ones.
Superman and Lois Lane - Their marriage took a lot of story out of superman. She knows who he is and the fact that she didn't was part of the allure for so long. Even the movie's knew that.
Elongated Man was married (although ending his marriage made him more interesting)
Soon to be Green Arrow and Black Canary - Which isn't even happening yet, we'll see how long it lasts if they have their own books.

Bingos across the board.

As for Matt and Milla, Milla just murdered someone - so that's probably over.

[cormano]

That'll be Dan Slott, Zeb Wells, Bob Gale, and Marc Guggenheim's job.

What has Zeb Wells done besides the Young Avengers/Runaways Civil War crap? Cuz that was awful. I haven't read anything by Guggenheim, I don't think, but I've heard good things and I'm excited for the other two.

[kahunablair]

Bingos across the board.

As for Matt and Milla, Milla just murdered someone - so that's probably over.

So there you go. After a while writers run out of ideas. So they either end it with someone dying, someone turning evil, someone being abusive, or they get a divorce.
-I don't think they'll get a divorce or have Peter get abusive, because how is that going to help us relate to him? I know I wouldn't enjoy reading a book about a wifebeater.
-The whole MJ is really a clone/actor/the Chameleon thing has already been done, so throw out the evil aspect.
-I'd think that if they went the "kill off MJ" route, they'd have Peter lose it. I mean he's already close with May being close to dying. So if they'd kill MJ, he'd turn into a homicidal maniac that would be one of the best Super Villians. The problem with that is, how would that make him the "everyman"? It wouldn't, so that leads us to....
Reboot Time!!

[davegraham]

Right, at some point you have to shake up the relationship and make things interesting. Death, divorce, kids, Skrulls do that. I don't see how taking Peter and MJ back to their lives before their marriage resolves the issue. They are always going to be in that cycle of they're together, they're not togther, she wants to be together but he doesn't, he wants to be together but she doesn't, they are both happy apart, they are both happy together. There is a connection between the two that does make things dramatic, but eventually gets old. Unless they are willing to, at some point, do away with MJ completely (she doesnt have to die just go off to Hollywood to be a star). Would they do that? How would you feel about a Spider-man comic where MJ is not there?

[conorkilpatrick]

Unless they are willing to, at some point, do away with MJ completely (she doesnt have to die just go off to Hollywood to be a star). Would they do that? How would you feel about a Spider-man comic where MJ is not there?

I'd be totally fine with it. You know, for many, many years she was not around. Peter dated Gwen and Betty and Felicia. Mary Jane is not an inherently necessary character to Spider-Man stories like Aunt May is.

Look how everyone flipped out and loved Ultimate Peter and Kitty together. I think there is some serious Peter/MJ fatigue out there.

[labor_days]

Young Avengers/Runaways was one of the most unfortunate things to come out of Civil War. What terribleness.

[conorkilpatrick]

You know what would be even better than a reboot? No reboot.

I occasionally find anti-climaxes to be satisfying, in a perverse way. Everyone would be screaming "What the ****? Where's the reboot?" Even people who were against the idea.

Of course I wouldn't continue to buy Amazing Spider-Man.

[labor_days]

"Tune your ear to the frequency of despair, and cross reference by the longitude and latitude of a heart in agony."

Jesus F@#$*& Christ!

I take it back. This thread doesn't make me want to die.

JMS makes me want to stab myself in the goddamn heart. I don't care how they do it anymore. Get him away from Spider-Man.

[fred]

You know what would be even better than a reboot? No reboot.

I occasionally find anti-climaxes to be satisfying, in a perverse way. Everyone would be screaming "What the ****? Where's the reboot?" Even people who were against the idea.

Of course I wouldn't continue to buy Amazing Spider-Man.

Yeah no shit. We remember that you liked the Sopranos finale. :rolleyes:

[fred]

"Tune your ear to the frequency of despair, and cross reference by the longitude and latitude of a heart in agony."


To hear a live reading of this (followed by a string of expletives), download episode #6 of my podcast.

[labor_days]

Hearing JMS' writing being read aloud is even worse than reading it yourself. I never thought it possible till this morning.

[fred]

Hearing JMS' writing being read aloud is even worse than reading it yourself. I never thought it possible till this morning.

You've got a point. I hated reading it silently, but aloud was so much worse. I usually try to edit out any pauses that last longer than 3/4 of a second. I purposely left a few in during the analysis segment because they expessed how frustrated I was with it.

[racemccloud]

You know, by Marvel's account, "One More Day" is already a whopping success. You know why?

When's the last time there's been this much discussion about "Amazing Spider-Man"?

[racemccloud]

By the way, anyone calling "Amazing" the flagship Spidey title is sadly mistaken. Traditionally, yes, of course it is, but Marvel has long since pushed "Ultimate Spider-Man" as the out-front and in-public book. Look at all that Bagley art on the Spidey lunchboxes, trapper-keepers, cell phone covers, hubcabs, etc., etc.

[racemccloud]

You know what would be even better than a reboot? No reboot.

I occasionally find anti-climaxes to be satisfying, in a perverse way. Everyone would be screaming "What the ****? Where's the reboot?" Even people who were against the idea.

Of course I wouldn't continue to buy Amazing Spider-Man.

You know what would be cool? If, instead of the reboot, they create some brand-new out of nowhere villain to kill Spidey, and then they replace him with four not-quite-the-original knock-offs, and then after a year, they just bring original Spidey back anyway. But with awesome electric powers.

That would be cool.

(Or maybe he's just been a Skrull since Amazing #4)

[esophagus]

You know what would be cool? If, instead of the reboot, they create some brand-new out of nowhere villain to kill Spidey, and then they replace him with four not-quite-the-original knock-offs, and then after a year, they just bring original Spidey back anyway. But with awesome electric powers.

That would be cool.

(Or maybe he's just been a Skrull since Amazing #4)Would this mean blue and red Spidermen? I'm all for it.

[jimski]

Why do I feel like I have read the caption, "Normally, I would have a snappy comeback. Not tonight. Tonight, I don't have the time," seven thousand times this year?

Tonight, Aunt May is dying. And it's all my fault.

All my fault.

Aunt May.

Dying.

Aunt May is, right now. Tonight. And the fault? The fault is ALL MINE.

Yes! Right! Absolutely! Are you paid by the word? I remember this from all four of the last four issues. Ah, I see we're dodging the hospital administrators still, awesome. Lucky for you, the doctor keeps the newspaper from when you unmasked a month ago in his lab coat at all times for reference.

I am glad glad glad I didn't buy it, but I wasn't strong enough to keep from reading it entirely. Have to split the difference.

[keithm]

So I just read the issue (I got my b0oks a bit late) and all I can say is...Ehhhh. Seriously, did JMS forget that he wrote the last storyline? How much does he need to beat this dead horse!?!?! We get it! Aunt May's dying, Peter's sad. Get on with the goddamn story already!!!!! "Here starts the bold, new direction for Spider-Man!" Oh really? Then how bout you start the effing story instead of rehashing the same inane crap you've been spewing out for months!!!! This story has already been told, and in an infinitely better way. Which is another thing. I know continuity is a four letter word at Marvel now, but wouldn't it at least cross Peter's mind that he's watching his aunt die for a second time? I guess it's just as well, as I can't think of the greatness of ASM #400 without remembering the (formerly) lowest point in Spidey's history, when it was revealed that the May who died was just an actress. Shudder.

Remember in the initial aftermath of the unmasking Marvel kept speaking (well lying really) about the new innovative storytelling opportunities that this opens up for the character? Well how about you tell some of those stories instead of having Peter crying outside a hospital for six ****ing months! Is this Marvel's new gameplan? They have some stupid event that irrevocably hurts their characters, and then completely ignore it in the main books, leaving Peter David to pick up the peices in a side book? It's not working with the X-Men and it sure as shit isn't happening here!

Honestly, I would've prefer that this book be two pages long. Have God come down from and tell Peter that he's gonna let him start over. Boom, cosmic restart. Normally the idea of a reboot would piss me off, but at this point I don't care. Make Peter a teen, make him a toddler, hell, make him 80 years old. Just please for the love of god can he be fun again?

I hate being this guy, I really do, but I'm so sick of my favorite character being so damn depressing. The greatest thing about Peter is that how many times the world craps on him he always has a joke ready. And here's a little hint JMS, drama only has impact if you see the character go from the highs to the lows. The reason that Gwen Stacy's death was so heartbreaking is because we say her and Peter fall in love and be happy for the months prior. The reason that no one gives a flying **** about your story is because you've had Peter be a whiny angsty ***** for SOOOOOOO long that the readers are in a pit of desperation so deep that even Spidey couldn't climb out of it.


Ughh...Someone wake me when this is over...

[aleks07]

JMS can easily get out of the mess he dug himself.....

Peter was really another clone after all (along with Ben Reilly).... Norman Osborn has the real teen Peter locked away all this time in some chamber ;)

[kahunablair]

JMS can easily get out of the mess he dug himself.....

Peter was really another clone after all (along with Ben Reilly).... Norman Osborn has the real teen Peter locked away all this time in some chamber ;)

Haha, how great would that be? They "save" Peter by going back to the one storyline I think is hated more then JMS's current crapfest.

[jgg0610]

I liked this issue quite a bit. The interaction between Tony and Peter felt genuine and right. I'm curious to see where they go with this. Plus, can't get enough of that Quesada art.

On the subject of the reboot. It cracks me up that everyone is assuming that it's going to happen. The only source I've seen referenced here is the Wiki page and we KNOW those are always accurate. I think that Joe Q. just has a personal problem with the married Spider-Man and that if his writers can't find a way to write an interesting married Spider-Man story, then it's time to find new writers. Someone brought up the Sensational Spider-Man Annual by Fraction. That was an awesome story and it was definitely about a married Spider-Man Put him on the book. After actually reading the shitstorm that was the end of Daredevil: Battlin' Jack Murdock, keep Zeb Wells as far as away from Spider-Man as is humanly possible.

Lastly, another point to consider. Someone listed all of the married couples in comics and what has happened to them. Why is not acceptable to have split up Peter and MJ but we can split up ever other couple in comics? When did their marriage become untouchable? You deal with that problem and the "need" for a reboot goes away. Plus, assuming a reboot is going to happen, how long after it do you think it will be before everyone is complaining that they're just telling the same old Spidey stories all over again? My bet, within six months.

[conorkilpatrick]

On the subject of the reboot. It cracks me up that everyone is assuming that it's going to happen. The only source I've seen referenced here is the Wiki page and we KNOW those are always accurate.

The original source was Rich Johnston's column:

A while ago, John Byrne talked about an idea he'd had with Howard Mackie to "reset" Spider-Man continuity. First they would have put Peter Parker through the worst of it, until he considers ending it all. At that point, he'd find himself on the bridge where Gwen Stacy died, offering his soul if the clock could have been turned back to simpler times. At which point the Shaper Of Worlds does just that, remaking Spider-Man's world to when he was back in High School, but with the current book's supporting cast, taking place in the modern day. Eventually confronting the Shaper, he discovers nothing can be changed, and his memories of the old world slowly fade away. The team decided though that this kind of event would be too "cosmic" for Spider-Man, who has a "street level" tone.

Well, while Byrne may be out of favour at Marvel (or vice versa), his ideas may still see the light of day. Coincidence of course, these things usually are - google "ideaspace" for further discussion. That is all for now.

Things just built from there.

Lastly, another point to consider. Someone listed all of the married couples in comics and what has happened to them. Why is not acceptable to have split up Peter and MJ but we can split up ever other couple in comics? When did their marriage become untouchable? You deal with that problem and the "need" for a reboot goes away.

At every convention I've seen him speak about it, Quesada has said it would be worse for Peter to be a divorcee and they couldn't kill Mary Jane.

[jgg0610]

At every convention I've seen him speak about it, Quesada has said it would be worse for Peter to be a divorcee and they couldn't kill Mary Jane.

I've seen that quote as well. What's I'm asking is when did their marriage become sacred ground when all of those other marriages, some of them as long in tenure as Peter and MJ, aren't? That's the question that he and no one else has really addressed.

Also thanks for the clarification on the origin of reboot Spider-Man mania. I still think it will be hilarious if it doesn't happen just to watch the internet split in half.

[kahunablair]

I've seen that quote as well. What's I'm asking is when did their marriage become sacred ground when all of those other marriages, some of them as long in tenure as Peter and MJ, aren't? That's the question that he and no one else has really addressed.

When that list was posted the intention wasn't that their marriage was any more/less sacred. It was referring to the fact that the reason Marriages don't last in comics is because of the fact that marrying a character off causes certain venues of stories to be completely cut off. This in turn leads to writers having caps put on their story potential.

[jgg0610]

When that list was posted the intention wasn't that their marriage was any more/less sacred. It was referring to the fact that the reason Marriages don't last in comics is because of the fact that marrying a character off causes certain venues of stories to be completely cut off. This in turn leads to writers having caps put on their story potential.
Kahnua, I realize that it looked like I was saying you implied that those other marriages were sacred. The intent was that the writers and editors have treated Peter and MJ's marriage as sacred when these others obviously weren't. What makes theirs unique and untouchable was what I was getting at.

[kahunablair]

Kahnua, I realize that it looked like I was saying you implied that those other marriages were sacred. The intent was that the writers and editors have treated Peter and MJ's marriage as sacred when these others obviously weren't. What makes theirs unique and untouchable was what I was getting at.

Gotcha now my man.
Sorry about the misunderstanding.

[jgg0610]

Gotcha now my man.
Sorry about the misunderstanding.
No problem. I can see where it went awry.

[mharrison]

I liked this issue of ASM 544. I haven't read a Spiderman comic since the days of Todd McFarlane doing the art, and I really appreciate that Marvel included the whole history of Spiderman at the back of the book, it brings me up to date with what has happened while I wasn't reading it. I wish more comics would do this.

Also, I didn't know Quesada was such a good artist, I can see Todd McFarlane's rope-style webbing is still being done by other artists today.

[patio]

I've seen that quote as well. What's I'm asking is when did their marriage become sacred ground when all of those other marriages, some of them as long in tenure as Peter and MJ, aren't? That's the question that he and no one else has really addressed.

Again, to paraphrase what JQ said at Wizard World Chicago, it's about what a split up or widowing would do to the character: if Peter's a divorcee or a widower, that makes him even older (perception-wise) than he is right now. Q wants him to remain an accessible character to anyone, including little kids, that pick up the book.

(Again I say that that's what the Ultimate and Marvel Adventures lines are for. Or if they partner with a better animation studio then they can spin off a line from that. Just like DC has done with Teen Titans Go!, The Batman Strikes, and JLU.)

[esophagus]

Again, to paraphrase what JQ said at Wizard World Chicago, it's about what a split up or widowing would do to the character: if Peter's a divorcee or a widower, that makes him even older (perception-wise) than he is right now. Q wants him to remain an accessible character to anyone, including little kids, that pick up the book.

(Again I say that that's what the Ultimate and Marvel Adventures lines are for. Or if they partner with a better animation studio then they can spin off a line from that. Just like DC has done with Teen Titans Go!, The Batman Strikes, and JLU.)Personally, I don't think making him a divorcee makes him seem any older than being married. And if it's the "little kids" were talking about, they would agree. Their parents are married, not people slightly older than them. The best route for making it accesible to them (without the de-aging) is to make a divorce and let Peter get over it quicker, and move on to average life.

[will_lund]

I know there are a lot of mixed reactions to the rumors. I'm trying not to think about them seriously because I hate rumors. But...
I've been reading Spider-man for 10 years without missing an issue. If they de-age him, I will stop buying it. That was what 'Ultimate' was supposed to be for.

[davegraham]

Personally, I could deal with a Spider-man book without Mary Jane. If they de-aged Spidey and the two grew apart from each other I would be perfectly satisfied with Peter playing the field. However at this point I have to think she has at least half as many fans as he does. She pushes the movie plots along almost as much as he does. To the general non-comic reading public (and to a lot of comic book reading fans), she is apart of the foundation of Spider-man's world. I have to think that apart of this reboot idea is to make the comics appear more like the movies, which are more popular to general audiences. So I think it would be very difficult to disconnect her come the comics. Many people would wonder where MJ is. I don't read Ultimate Spider-man regularly. I missed the whole Peter/Kitty relationship. From what I hear it gets praise across the board. I see how that story could be enjoyable. However I am reading Ultimate Spider-man right now and Peter and MJ are together. I think it is very very difficult to disconnect MJ from any Spider-man continuity. Peter, in the comics, the movies, and the cartoon is too much of a goody good to be "swinging" (no pun intended) with woman after woman after woman. His heart will always belong to one girl, which was Gwen Stacy, but because the Spider-man story is bullet pointed by tragedy, she had to die. Also because that tension between two lovers is be apart of the Spider-man story, MJ is a Spider-man writer's second choice. If they weren't together how would Marvel explain the existence of a comic book titled "Spider-man Loves Mary Jane." Not that there would be people storming Marvel's offices demanding an answer, but it would be odd. From the perspective of story telling, MJ could disappear and never return to Peter's life. From a marketing position, she is a character that sells Spider-man to the popular audience.

Is MJ an instance of Women in Refrigerators? Granted she has only been killed one time and that was revealed to be a hoax, but I am having a hard time coming up with a story about her that didn't serve Spider-man in some way.

[kahunablair]

Is MJ an instance of Women in Refrigerators? Granted she has only been killed one time and that was revealed to be a hoax, but I am having a hard time coming up with a story about her that didn't serve Spider-man in some way.
She is darn near close. She's a red headed super model. What geek in high school wouldn't want to date that? She's pretty much a geek fantasy.

What would everyone think if they only de-aged Peter, and left MJ older? That way the rift would be drawn. They can't be together, and new stories will HAVE to be written.

[davegraham]

What is the source for this rumor? Is it the John Byrne comment? Isn't that a bit dated by now? Things seem to be going in that direction, but that doesn't mean they aren't doing a bait and switch thing here. It would be hilarious if there was not reboot after this.

[patio]

What would everyone think if they only de-aged Peter, and left MJ older? That way the rift would be drawn. They can't be together, and new stories will HAVE to be written.

Hey! It's the "Big" ending. Slightly creepy.

But I agree this may all be a bait-and-switch. I heard a rumor from my comic shop guy that MJ was going to become a superhero ( or villain?) named Casino or something, which made an appearance in the Spidey FCBD issue. I have NO idea if this oculd be true.

[kahunablair]

There was a red headed costumed person in the FCBD book. She kept saying things like "Let's face it, you've hit the Jackpot, Tiger" and such. Peter keeps inner monologing about how she seems so familar and such.
The story is supposed to take place after the current series. This means either MJ dissapears from Peter's life, or she dies and this is her coming back.

[fred]

<cough>Madeline Pryor<cough>

[davegraham]

Granted he isn't as popular as Spider-man, but I wonder why they have been able to get past Iron Man's every-day-could-be-my-last-and-I-have-too-many-sins-to-make-up-for-before-I -die schtick. I mean I don't think Tony's heart problem is an issue any more. It took Civil War to make him relevent, but at least it is something.

Why can't Peter get beyond the everyone-I-love-is-going-to-get-hurt-because-of-Spider-man schtick?

[esophagus]

She is darn near close. She's a red headed super model. What geek in high school wouldn't want to date that? She's pretty much a geek fantasy.

What would everyone think if they only de-aged Peter, and left MJ older? That way the rift would be drawn. They can't be together, and new stories will HAVE to be written.Peter would say age didn't matter. MJ would more than likely disagree. Peter will get depressed and not only will we have lame depressed Spidey, we would have lame depressed, teenage, Spidey. It could be written right, and be one of the best options they've got, but it would definitely need some fresh faces.

[mikegraham6]

if they do this relaunch in the same vein as the john byrne concept, then i won't be interested, Peter will be the only one regressed??? so basically they'll just introduce a whole new cast of characters? ya... that'll last

[jimski]

I haven't really read the "reboot" spoiler word for word, but I've inadvertently heard about it so often I may as well just go back and read it.

I'm wondering, though: how much of this rumor do you think was powered by the cover to New Avengers #34? I know that I was inclined to believe the little I'd heard had been confirmed when I saw the preview for it. Now that the issue is actually on the shelves, and it does not actually feature a teenaged Peter, does that affect anyone's predictions?

NA 34 got me a'thinking... if Peter Parker were able to change anything, I imagine he'd either wish his uncle back or wish he'd never been bitten in the first place, the latter being less likely. Hm.

[kahunablair]

I'm wondering, though: how much of this rumor do you think was powered by the cover to New Avengers #34? I know that I was inclined to believe the little I'd heard had been confirmed when I saw the preview for it. Now that the issue is actually on the shelves, and it does not actually feature a teenaged Peter, does that affect anyone's predictions?


I think the issue actually reenforces the potential for a reboot. What does Peter really want? To go back to be a kid in high school.
What does the rumor say? He's going to ask God/Devil/Whoever to change him back into a kid from High School.

I think this issue was just another little bit of foreshadowing.

[davegraham]

Yeah, when I read that scene I questioned whether that was Bendis reenforcing the idea of the reboot or whether it was just a part of the story going on in that issue.

[jimski]

I really don't know. The Bendis-written Spidey apparently feels the real, ideal "him" is the one who wasn't Spidey at all yet.

[davegraham]

Right, which isn't the same as saying he wished we was a younger Spider-man. But Bendis has me paranoid and I am looking for second meanings in everything he writes, especially in New Avengers.

[kahunablair]

I really don't know. The Bendis-written Spidey apparently feels the real, ideal "him" is the one who wasn't Spidey at all yet.

Did he say it was the pre-bite version of Peter?
I don't have my books with me, but I thought it just said it was him in high school.

[davegraham]

Did he say it was the pre-bite version of Peter?
I don't have my books with me, but I thought it just said it was him in high school.

I am at work, but I have my books...

"That you be me. When I was younger. I am not Freud, but I guess I liked me BEFORE I was Spidey. Ugh."

[kahunablair]

I am at work, but I have my books...

"That you be me. When I was younger. I am not Freud, but I guess I liked me BEFORE I was Spidey. Ugh."

Ah I see. Very interesting indeed.

[mikegraham6]

NA 34 got me a'thinking... if Peter Parker were able to change anything, I imagine he'd either wish his uncle back or wish he'd never been bitten in the first place, the latter being less likely. Hm.

Jimski, you make a good point. If Peter could change one thing, why the hell would he pick being de-aged to a teenager? He'd wish for Uncle Ben to be alive! This storyline makes absolutely no sense!!!!


What's that? It's not finished yet? Oh.....never mind then.


seriously though, Jimski's right

[davegraham]

This storyline make absolutely no sense!!!!


I agree. It makes about as much sense as Gwen Stacy having twins with Norman Osborn.

[conorkilpatrick]

So... wasn't this book supposed to be released weekly? I could have sworn it was.

It takes place across:

Spider-Man: One More Day
Part 1 - Amazing Spider-Man #544
Part 2 - Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man #24
Part 3 - Sensational Spider-Man #41
Part 4 - Amazing Spider-Man #545

So we should have seen #1-3 already, right? Or am I crazy?

[davegraham]

You're not crazy. I too thought it was supposed to be weekly.

[jimski]

So... wasn't this book supposed to be released weekly? I could have sworn it was.

It takes place across:

Spider-Man: One More Day
Part 1 - Amazing Spider-Man #544
Part 2 - Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man #24
Part 3 - Sensational Spider-Man #41
Part 4 - Amazing Spider-Man #545

So we should have seen #1-3 already, right? Or am I crazy?

I don't know if the confusion comes from the thrice-monthly Amazing that's coming our way, or if something else is going on. I know that I was thrown when I read about it. "The Brand New Day begins in #546? Wow. That'll be out in... wait, what? December??"

Comic release schedules have officially robbed me of all sense of time and space.

Oh, and the spoilers I just read about this arc are completely different than what everyone here's been speculating on for the past five months.

[jimski]

Update: I had an idle moment, so I did a quick search and found this in a Newsarama forum. Apologies for the inevitable format mutilation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebro
According to the solicitations:
Part 2 (FRIENDLY #24), ships 9/26 (But it's not on next week's shipping list. Uh oh!)

Marvel.com now lists this with an in-store date of 10/10. Uh oh, indeed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebro
Part 3 (SENSATIONAL #41), ships 10/17


Now listed as 10/31.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebro
Part 4 (AMAZING #545), ships 11/28

No change.

...the original plan was for #3 to come out 10/17 and #4 to come out 11/28??

This is taxing my brain. I need a hobby to get my mind off it.

[conorkilpatrick]

That is ****ed. I may lose interest by then.

[luthor]

That is ****ed. I may lose interest by then.

You haven't already? That first issue was awful.

LITG (http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/index.cgi?column=litg&article=2889) has what might be spoilers again this week for those who still give a damn.

[jimski]

You haven't already? That first issue was awful.

LITG (http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/index.cgi?column=litg&article=2889) has what might be spoilers again this week for those who still give a damn. See, those spoilers are different spoilers than the other spoilers. Which were also from Lying in the Gutters. Rich Johnston reminds me of a friend of mine, who during the course of a horror movie points to every character and whispers "he's the killer!" and then, when the killer is revealed, says "Called it!"

I did not react viscerally to the first issue like some--I had had a respite from JMSpider-Man-- but as this event moves forward I feel sort of like an Eastern European democrat waiting for my nation's dictator to finally die. When will Spidervia be free of this grey, lifeless regime? Soon... soon... just keep marching peacefully for a few months more....

[davegraham]

You haven't already?
LITG (http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/index.cgi?column=litg&article=2889) has what might be spoilers again this week for those who still give a damn.

Well, now, I am okay with that direction. Not completely, but I could come around to it.

[davegraham]

Does anyone remember JMS writing something of a Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid-style ending to Spider-man. He wrote a scene that flashforwarded into Spidey's future where Peter Parker is surrounded by police with no hope of escape. Here is a part of it...

http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/image/SpiderMan_AuntMayGrave.jpg

Does anyone remember if this was resolved or is this going to be dangling as a "possible" future?

[mikegraham6]

Delays, delays, delays.
One More Day Part 3 delayed until 11/28/07
Part 4 until 12/27/07

ho hum. link (http://www.newsarama.com/general/JunotDIaz/OMDDelays.html)

[k33k3r]

you honestly didn't see that coming? they are probably trying to give Slott more time to get his three a months in the can.

[superfriend82]

Delays, delays, delays.
One More Day Part 3 delayed until 11/28/07
Part 4 until 12/27/07

ho hum. link (http://www.newsarama.com/general/JunotDIaz/OMDDelays.html)

i So know that this was going to happen!

as for the stuff over all: the story is ok, i don't like Peter but like Spidy, the inks and colors are a bit of all right.

[iSteve]

Another month until Part 3, that so sucks. Not that I am a big fan of OMD, I just want it over with so we can get on with new Spidey stories - and hopefully have him be an interesting character again.

[iSteve]

Part 4 isn't on sale until 12/27/07. Oh @#$%.

[jimski]

What's the opposite of momentum? Inertia?

I've dropped comics before, but I think this comic is actually dropping me.

It-- I mean--

It's not that I can't wait to find out what happens next. They're not pushing back the next exciting chapter of the story; they're pushing back the day when I get to start reading Spider-Man again. That's a new kind of frustration.

"Here. Here's $9. Take it, please. I want you to have it. You can have it every month."

"Nope. No sir. Not interested. Later. Busy."

[jimski]

And see--!

Here again, if I went back and looked at the hype when this was announced, I'd see twenty stories about how JMS and Joe Q have been working on this story since 1994, and Quesada left his wife and kids to move into a motel to get some issues in the can, and he signed up for sleep studies so he could draw at 3:00 in the morning, and oh man, the issues in the can, we care about this project, and

it's

all

bullshit.

[mikegraham6]

Another month until Part 3, that so sucks. Not that I am a big fan of OMD, I just want it over with so we can get on with new Spidey stories - and hopefully have him be an interesting character again.

my thoughts exactly

[paper]

Am I the only one who hears music from "Les Mis" whenever they read the title of this book?

[jimski]

just something I saw on the sales chart i should be ignoring:

A big jump for the first part of “One More Day.” Part of that can be attributed to the variant cover, but it’s still an impressive jump.

So it’s a success, right? Well, yes and no. “One More Day” was conceived as a weekly storyline, but now it’s slipped so far off schedule that it’s effectively become a monthly. So instead of three regular Spider-Man titles per month, Marvel have only got one. Yes, AMAZING is up by 40K - but FRIENDLY and SENSATIONAL are missing altogether, and they normally do somewhere over 90K combined.

Last month, Marvel shipped 203,326 Spider-Man comics, across the three titles. This month, two of them sold zero, so the total sales were only 146,215. If you look at it that way, they’re actually down by over 57K, or 28.1%. And it’ll be the same next month, because part three of “One More Day” has just been pushed back to November. All this begs the question of whether Joe Quesada is worth waiting for - at least financially.

[conorkilpatrick]

just something I saw on the sales chart i should be ignoring:

The One More Day fiasco is so far beyond ridiculous that it couldn't even see ridiculous with a high powered telescope.

[fred]

I don't think Quesada is worth waiting for financially or artistically. I am not impressed.

If I were Joe, I would've avoided this job like the plague. It seems like disappointment is piling on top of disappointment over at Marvel lately. Would I really want to take a chance at holding the bag on this? The answer is not no, but hell no.

[racemccloud]

I'm a little confused... does "One More Day" refer to the storyline, or the shipping schedule?

[k33k3r]

this idea was doomed from the start. When has marvel ever been able to keep their books on schedule???

[iSteve]

I'm a little confused... does "One More Day" refer to the storyline, or the shipping schedule?

Oooh, good one, Race.

[jimski]

this idea was doomed from the start. When has marvel ever been able to keep their books on schedule???
Come now; let us not do the company thing. I will see your Marvel event and raise you an All-Star anything.

[k33k3r]

Um dude I only read like 5 DC titles and only started reading DC this year. I've been a Marvel follower for years and they are always off schedule.

[davegraham]

Lets just say that books from all publishers are late at some point and leave it at that.

I say let Quesada take his time and finish the thing. Since it is likely that the story ends with Peter and MJ splitting then Joe's crusade is over. Let the guy be there when it wraps up. If it takes a monthly schedule then that is what it takes. If Marvel insists on shooting itself in the foot then let it. I mean, it isn't like anyone is enjoying the story and must have the next issue. All anyone seems to do is complain about it. Ultimate Spider-man comes out this week, read that in the mean time.

[k33k3r]

I'm only complaining because they cut another book I read monthly for this boutched attempt at their own 52 and/od Countdown. Sensational was actually very good if they don't get ASM back on course I hope they bring it back.

[davegraham]

I'm only complaining because they cut another book I read monthly for this boutched attempt at their own 52 and/od Countdown. Sensational was actually very good if they don't get ASM back on course I hope they bring it back.

I see how that would be annoying and I feel for you.

It would be nice to think that the fact that Marvel is now loosing money from not publishing Friendly and Spectacular while One More Day goes on will lead them to get their act together. However I don't expect it to.

Also it just now occurred to me that I am planning on reading a $3.99 quasi-weekly book. Suddenly, I am not as big a Spidey fan as I thought I was.

[k33k3r]

Do we know if the quasi-weekly books are going to cost #3.99? I wasn't sure if it was only that way for OSM.

Sidenote: They are losing aboutn 40k a month without those books.

[jimski]

I really liked Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man, or wanted to anyway, but I'd rather have one Marvel Universe Spidey book telling one Marvel Universe Spidey story, and if it comes out every other week so much the better.

Spider-Man enthusiasts: does it kind of make anyone else go "oh, s***" that the supposedly-weekly One More Day is this much of a snafu, and the next thing planned is a supposedly-weekly Spidey series? Confidence inspiring, it is not.

[k33k3r]

exactly my point.

[davegraham]

Some dumbass part of my psyche still thinks they can do it. In this instance it is Joe Q who is holdinging things up and I imagine he is busier than the average industry artist. What with being Editor-in-chief and all. I mean, they say they have issue already completed and are ahead of schedule. Why would they say that if is isn't true?

I admit I have become less enthused about this weekly Spider-man comic. Well I wouldn't say that I was ever enthused as much as I was curious to see how it would unfold. If OMD is any indication for how the weekly is going to go then I don't expect to be following Spidey outside of New Avengers.

[omegalife2002]

I have just recently gotten back in to comics within the last year or so. One of the titles that I used to read when I was in high school was Spider-man... every single title that they would put out...every single tie-in, cross-over, event, or guest spot. I was a little overboard, but I really loved Spider-Man.

Now, as I am trying to recapture the love I once had, this s*** happens. I could not be more pissed at Marvel for this.
Yes, I listened to the Marvel Q&A a couple weeks back, but no, this one is inexcusable. This is all about one man's inability to let go of a project that he should have never done in the first place. Yeah, I'm talking about about you Joe.

One good thing has come out of Marvels ability to not delivery books on time... This marvel zombie has finally started reading some DC titles... and I love them!
Green Lantern is awesome!! The best DC thing out there right now (as far as mainstream super hero's). I also really am enjoying 52 in trades...even though I don't know any of the characters at all, its really fun.

I have to say though, Countdown blows... really bad.


Anyway, yank Joe Q. off the book and put somebody that can deliver on time with the art. If you wanted to draw Joe, you shouldn't have become editor-in-chief.

[conorkilpatrick]

Spider-Man enthusiasts: does it kind of make anyone else go "oh, s***" that the supposedly-weekly One More Day is this much of a snafu, and the next thing planned is a supposedly-weekly Spidey series? Confidence inspiring, it is not.

Well, to be fair, one creative team isn't handling every book like they are with One More Day.

[jimski]

This is the Peanut Gallery; fairness has no place here. :)

[tad]

Although I collect few comics, in theory this is the kind of comic I pick up on a whim just to see how a reboot is handled. I haven't bothered yet and I won't until the recaps are something other than "Aunt May is still sick."

But has it been officially announced that this is the reset button for the Peter and MaryJane relationship? If he has to choose between his aunt and his wife and he chooses his aunt.... euw.

But the Spider-man comics are about to go almost weekly. Will they share the same story, or at least be written so that they should be read in order? If not, then it means nothing. They renamed comics because it makes the hold out fans buy ALL the Spidey titles.

But here's my confusion... if the mini-series dramatically changes Spider-man's world, how can all the Spidey titles continue without giving away the ending of OMD? At some point, don't they have to stop and wait for Joe Q to catch up?

[conorkilpatrick]

But here's my confusion... if the mini-series dramatically changes Spider-man's world, how can all the Spidey titles continue without giving away the ending of OMD? At some point, don't they have to stop and wait for Joe Q to catch up?

There be the point. They have all stopped coming out until this storyline has finished. Marvel is losing money because they aren't selling any MU Spider-Man books at the moment.

[k33k3r]

That also explains why NA is put on the shelf for awhile. I never thought of that. DAMMIT I was only blaming Cho but now I see he's not the only slow one...

[davegraham]

That also explains why NA is put on the shelf for awhile. I never thought of that. DAMMIT I was only blaming Cho but now I see he's not the only slow one...

The last time Spidey was in New Avengers, I think he was still in the black costume. So I assume it would take place before OMD and not be effected by the story.

[k33k3r]

No I understand that but there is no NA in January I believe except for the Annual.

[tad]

Spiderman comics have stopped? That's outrageous. Forget the fan element for a moment. Just think of this in terms of a business decision.

This delay is saying that finishing the arc with the original team will boost sales of the eventual TPB so much that it will make more money than the lost sales of three plus months of Spiderman comics. What??!

Even in the crazy movie/tv business, that's the sort of decision that gets people fired.

[conorkilpatrick]

Spiderman comics have stopped? That's outrageous. Forget the fan element for a moment. Just think of this in terms of a business decision.

This delay is saying that finishing the arc with the original team will boost sales of the eventual TPB so much that it will make more money than the lost sales of three plus months of Spiderman comics. What??!

Even in the crazy movie/tv business, that's the sort of decision that gets people fired.

Check this out. (http://www.revision3.com/forum/showpost.php?p=223723&postcount=130)

[kahunablair]

....
Even in the crazy movie/tv business, that's the sort of decision that gets people fired.

Normally I agree. But this case has the Editor In Chief is involved with the problem. How can you really fire the boss?

[esophagus]

Normally I agree. But this case has the Editor In Chief is involved with the problem. How can you really fire the boss?
I wish someone would figure out the answer to that.

[conorkilpatrick]

I wish someone would figure out the answer to that.

If Quesada got fired I'd probably stop reading most Marvel books again.

[esophagus]

I meant fired as an artist. He's a fine EIC. His work has just been slow and subpar lately.

[kahunablair]

I meant fired as an artist. He's a fine EIC. His work has just been slow and subpar lately.

While you're telling him not to draw, I want you to go tell the Emperor he's not wearing any clothes.

[esophagus]

While you're telling him not to draw, I want you to go tell the Emperor he's not wearing any clothes.What if I told the emperor not to draw, and Joe he was naked. This way I just look crazy, and no feelings are hurt.

[charlesdacriticczar]

I'm going to treat this like I've done with most of JMS' run on spidey either ignore it completely and read a good spidey book in Ultimate, or buy the last issue to see if it sucks like everyone says then toss it in a box somewhere never to read again..lol

[racemccloud]

Am I the only one who hears music from "Les Mis" whenever they read the title of this book?


No, sir, you are not.

"One day more, another day another destiny, this never-ending road to calvary; these men who seem to know my crime will surely come a second time! One day more..."

Another similarity between "Les Miz" and the Spidey arc? The original New York production of "Les Miz" ran on Broadway for 16 years; that's the same amount of time JQ is taking between issues.

[jimski]

Another similarity between "Les Miz" and the Spidey arc? The original New York production of "Les Miz" ran on Broadway for 16 years; that's the same amount of time JQ is taking between issues.

Love it!

I compulsively looked at next week's shipping list already, as I usually do on Wednesday nights like a junkie, and I noticed that Marvel has like ten single issues coming out next week. On the page, it looked like a trickle. And it suddenly occurred to me that all the Spidey books vanishing (Ultimate and Marvel Adventures notwithstanding, of course) is like Disneyworld going a month without Mickey Mouse. It's a little jarring.

[euchre0]

Delays I can handle, bad stories I can handle, but what bothers me is when the premise of such a huge story doesn't make sense. Aunt May might die from a bullet intended for Peter. Tragic. But, she's like 80 years old and has been sick almost since issue #1. She's an old lady, who could die soon without the aide of a bullet. I was one of those who was glad that Marvel brought her back even if it negated a great tale in #400, but using Aunt May's death as a reason for Peter to want to alter time and space and all that? Come on. He's acting like a baby and is reacting in ways that are very irresponsible, which contradicts the entire mantra he's tried to live by since Uncle Ben was killed. Speaking of Uncle Ben, why wouldn't Peter fulfill another selfish desire and bring Uncle Ben back? If Quesada's goal in life is to have a single Spider-Man, that's fine. Just come up with a good idea to do it.


After this rant, I admit I am aware that only have of the story has come out and I may be totally off base. But still, Peter is acting like a little b!tch.

[conorkilpatrick]

From Rich Johnston: (http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/?column=13)

WHY ARE WE WAITING?

So what's Joe Quesada been saying about "One More Delay?"

Remember the book was originally planned as an August weekly book before it got moved to September.

Quesada regularly assured readers the book would be on time.

May 2007

NRAMA: The clip is pretty high quality looking? How much time goes in production? And just to assure readers, things are still on pace for One More Day pages, right?

JQ: Yeah, things are on pace for Spider-Man: One More Day.

June 2007

NRAMA: Progress wise - where are you on One More Day? Looking good for finishing it up soon?

JQ: Yup, everything is on target to ship on time so I'm keeping my fingers crossed [winks].

However by solicitation deadline the weekliness had been abandoned and the series was coming out every three weeks. And further solicitations extended that time difference, with the final issue initially solicited to ship seven weeks after the third. Although the third issue is delayed six weeks and the fourth by four weeks, so the difference between issues has shrunk...

I am reminded that, during the "Civil War" delays, Tom Brevoort insisted that everything was going according to schedule. When I pointed out that this directly contradicted previous statements, he told me I was wrong, that it was all going to schedule…

Just not the schedule that had been released to the readers. A private internal schedule we hadn't been made aware of. And according to that, everything was fine.

I still love that one.

[jimski]

From Rich Johnston: (http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/?column=13)

WHY ARE WE WAITING?

So what's Joe Quesada been saying about "One More Delay?"

On the one hand, I like this, because it reaffirms what I already believe (http://www.revision3.com/forum/showpost.php?p=223420&postcount=127) and that always feels nice.

On the other hand, he doesn't answer his own question, making it less "scoop" or "news," and more "stuff I could have Googled." I saw the headline and the lede and got all excited, and then... nothin'. (Wait... is it a metaphor for the book itself?)

[patio]

Just not the schedule that had been released to the readers. A private internal schedule we hadn't been made aware of. And according to that, everything was fine.

I don't mean to apologize for Quesada/Marvel and their scheduling woes, b/c this is getting ridiculous.

But I can see Tom's point. In a publishing company you have scheduling meetings every week, if not more often. The schedule likely gets revised along the way as problems crop up. So yeah, everything could be going according to some schedule, if not the original one. And trying to keep up with when/how the schedule was changed and how far away you are from the original schedule is pointless once the old one is scrapped. Buuuut, when some version of the schedule is made public, that is a problem.

[jimski]

Rich Johnston's reply to my e-mail makes me want to shake him.

Again.

[jimski]

Why am I just reading about this (http://jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-17697)for the first time? JMS says:

For whatever it's worth, the situation is not as clear cut as one
might hope. The reality of any writer workingfor any company, DC or
Marvel or Image, is that when you're handed a franchise character,
you're basically entrusted with something that the company owns, and
the company has final say in what happens to that character, because
as a writer, you're only there for a certain amount of time and then
the next guy has to come in. Spider-Man belongs to Marvel, not to me,
and at the end of the day, however much I may disagree with things,
and however much I may make it very CLEAR to all parties that I
disagree, I have to honor their position.

In the Gwen storyline, yes, I wanted it to be Peter's kids, Joe over-
rode that, which is his right as EIC. I got the flack for that
decision, but them's the breaks.

In the current storyline, there's a lot that I don't agree with, and I
made this very clear to everybody within shouting distance at Marvel,
especially Joe. I'll be honest: there was a point where I made the
decision, and told Joe, that I was going to take my name off the last
two issues of the OMD arc. Eventually Joe talked me out of that
decision because at the end of the day, I don't want to sabotage Joe
or Marvel, and I have a lot of respect for both of those. As an
executive producer as well as a writer, I've sometimes had to insist
that my writers make changes that they did not want to make, often
loudly so. They were sure I was wrong. Mostly I was right.
Sometimes I was wrong. But whoever sits in the editor's chair, or the
executive producer's chair, wears the pointy hat of authority, and as
Dave Sim once noted, you can't argue with a pointy hat.

So at the end of the day, all one can do is try to do the best one can
with the notes one is given, and try to execute them in a professional
way...because who knows, the other guy may be right. The only thing I
*can* tell you, with absolute certainty, is that what Joe does with
Spidey and all the rest of the Marvel characters, he does out of a
genuine love of the character. He's not looking to sabotage anything,
he's not looking to piss off the fans, he genuinely believes in the
rightness of his views not out of a sense of "I'm the boss" but
because he loves these characters and the Marvel universe.

And right or wrong, you have to respect that.

jms

[luthor]

Wow, that smells like a PR nightmare.

[gungadin]

Does it sound to anyone else that JMS is just trying to pass the buck?

I still can't believe he ruined Gwen Stacy like that...

[conorkilpatrick]

Not really. He isn't in total control of the stories. Makes sense.

[jimski]

Wow, that smells like a PR nightmare. Yeah, there are better cover blurbs than, "At one point I wanted to have my name taken off of it. -the author"

[sirurza]

I'm worried about where the story is going. As someone that doesn't read stories or dig deep for news I have no idea how this is going to end. I'm not sure I want to see Peter and MJ break up, on the other hand, I don't want to see Aunt May die.. but it's kind of time if Peter's ever going to grow up.

[gungadin]

Not really. He isn't in total control of the stories. Makes sense.

Yeah. But... I dunno... Editorial doesn't seem to be forcing him to write a lot of these....

[klwinters]

What JMS wrote softens my opinion of him and his destruction of Spider-man as a good character. I know what its like to be forced to write something you really dont want to.

[conorkilpatrick]

Yeah. But... I dunno... Editorial doesn't seem to be forcing him to write a lot of these....

What are you basing that on?

[esophagus]

Yeah. But... I dunno... Editorial doesn't seem to be forcing him to write a lot of these....Unless you've been personally talking to Joe Q I don't see how that's something you know. In fact, it makes perfect sense. JMS hands in an arc or an issue, and Joe Q just isn't happy. Some major plot point needs to be changed, and that causes a delay. Can't get that out within the week, then you have a monthly title. So that could be a cause for lateness. Also, I see no reason why he would say those things without reason, especially considering we all know it happens elsewhere. Look at the DC killing Batman story. I can just about guarantee that a writer didn't walk in and pitch a story about Batman dying a year down the road, then come in the next week and say "No, I'll just make him a new god", then come back again a couple weeks after that and say "scratch that, I just won't write this storyline". There's an editor somewhere behind every story, and with a story as big as OMD, there's probably plenty of them.

[gungadin]

What are you basing that on?

The way JMS talks about the Gwen Stacy story sounds like he took that story to editorial. He says "In the Gwen storyline, yes, I wanted it to be Peter's kids, Joe over-rode that, which is his right as EIC." Now, I don't know what happened with the editorial on that one, but it sounds to me (this is how I always interpreted it) that he went in, pitched the idea, got the Peter's kids idea shot down, and then rewrote it with Osborn as the father.

Now me, I'm a little biased because I'm a HUGE proponent of Gwen Stacy. If it was me and I had that idea (which isn't a great idea, to be sure, but it's an idea nonetheless...) I woulda pitched it, and then if they had said to me "You can't make it Peter. Make it Norman Osborne instead." I wouldn't have written it. There's no way. Gwen Stacy wasn't some whore. If JMS thought as I do (which he probably didn't) he wouldn't have written the story if he couldn't have included such a very important detail.

So yes, there is a bit of a gap. I'm not sure if editorial said "Make it Norman" or not, but the truth of the matter is that JMS did write his story with a character destroying (I'm vehemently against this whole stupid frakking story) detail that literally dragged the name of Gwen Stacy, a character I have fallen a little in love with (she's dead, I know... sue me... I know what I think), through the mud. It's disgusting and abominable to portray her like this.

I don't know if I made a point. But I feel it in here somewhere...

(I know that comes out scathing, but I found out about this six months ago and I'm still pissed the frak off that someone actually did this to Gwen Stacy... So I apologize to anyone who loved the storyline... But this was just... I consider it unacceptable on the part of editorial and JMS...)

[conorkilpatrick]

The way JMS talks about the Gwen Stacy story sounds like he took that story to editorial. He says "In the Gwen storyline, yes, I wanted it to be Peter's kids, Joe over-rode that, which is his right as EIC." Now, I don't know what happened with the editorial on that one, but it sounds to me (this is how I always interpreted it) that he went in, pitched the idea, got the Peter's kids idea shot down, and then rewrote it with Osborn as the father.

Now me, I'm a little biased because I'm a HUGE proponent of Gwen Stacy. If it was me and I had that idea (which isn't a great idea, to be sure, but it's an idea nonetheless...) I woulda pitched it, and then if they had said to me "You can't make it Peter. Make it Norman Osborne instead." I wouldn't have written it. There's no way. Gwen Stacy wasn't some whore. If JMS thought as I do (which he probably didn't) he wouldn't have written the story if he couldn't have included such a very important detail.

So yes, there is a bit of a gap. I'm not sure if editorial said "Make it Norman" or not, but the truth of the matter is that JMS did write his story with a character destroying (I'm vehemently against this whole stupid frakking story) detail that literally dragged the name of Gwen Stacy, a character I have fallen a little in love with (she's dead, I know... sue me... I know what I think), through the mud. It's disgusting and abominable to portray her like this.

I don't know if I made a point. But I feel it in here somewhere...

(I know that comes out scathing, but I found out about this six months ago and I'm still pissed the frak off that someone actually did this to Gwen Stacy... So I apologize to anyone who loved the storyline... But this was just... I consider it unacceptable on the part of editorial and JMS...)

Okay, so what you're saying is you have no knowledge of the extent of the editorial dictates of Marvel Comics over the storylines in Amazing Spider-Man, you're just pissed off about the Gwen Stacy arc. Is that about right?

[six-gun]

Okay, so what you're saying is you have no knowledge of the extent of the editorial dictates of Marvel Comics over the storylines in Amazing Spider-Man, you're just pissed off about the Gwen Stacy arc. Is that about right?

I believe some comic fans would sacrifice their first born to bring Gwen Stacy back

[cam-]

It could be argued that Gwen did it to herself.

Sometimes a girls just gotta get laid right? Oh, wait, she's fiction? Well, time to get suing.

[jimski]

Gwen Stacy has been dead for my entire life. Two years longer than my entire life, actually. And I am no longer a young man. The thought that there are emotionally invested comics readers who can remember issues she was in makes me want to sell my belongings and move to a cabin in the woods.

[davegraham]

...I don't want to see Aunt May die.. but it's kind of time if Peter's ever going to grow up.

I happen to agree with you. I think nothing would be better than an adult Peter Parker that has all of the drama of his history weighing on him. I think it adds more interesting material to the well of story ideas. I don't think the marriage resctricts anything (except it does establish a point in the Spider-man epic where people can disengage themselves with some resolution) and I don't think Aunt May adds anything particularly relevent to the character anymore.

However Marvel isn't necessarily interested in a character that grows up. Maintaining their character's status quoes keeps them timeless and a property to resell. I don't like that, but it is a part of serialized storytelling. And I can accept it, because Marvel is a business not just in comics, but in selling their properties as merchanize and their characters have to maintain their status quo images to be viable in certain non-comic book markets.

So those Goblin kids were supposed to be Peter's? Wow that makes it all better and eliminates some of my distaste for JMS's run. This is a What If I would read.

[cam-]

I'm worried about where the story is going. As someone that doesn't read stories or dig deep for news I have no idea how this is going to end. I'm not sure I want to see Peter and MJ break up, on the other hand, I don't want to see Aunt May die.. but it's kind of time if Peter's ever going to grow up.

Just finished listening to the podcast (so I haven't read the book but have an idea what's going on), and I gotta say the conceit that Peter would leave the love of his life just to save that old bag whose got to die sometime enrages me!!

But I'm not reading it so my opinion is moot.

Still if this ever finishes I'll pick up the "weekly-ish" series and give it a shot.

I guess ultimately what I'm saying is, if this makes Spidey compelling again who cares how he got there.

[kahunablair]

Two things:

- Does anyone else find it funny that the Final two issues of OMD that JMS wanted his name taken off of, are the issues we all seem to like?

- Is there anything that could happen in that final issue that could cause you to say, "Huh... I'm really shocked by that" AND/OR "I think that made this whole experience worth it"?

[davegraham]

Just finished listening to the podcast (so I haven't read the book but have an idea what's going on), and I gotta say the conceit that Peter would leave the love of his life just to save that old bag whose got to die sometime enrages me!!

It may very well be Mary Jane that makes the decision to spare Peter from having to. She has just as much love for Aunt May. However you are right in that it is a dumb pact for Peter to agree to. It only gets the old bag a couple more years at the price of a lifetime of Peter and MJ together. Then again in comic time a Aunt May can live on forever.

[cam-]

Hmm I hadn't considered that.

What I'd really like is for May to wake up and say "no peter, I can't let you do this, I can't subject you to a lifetime of unhappiness JUST to save me" or something.

But Spidey gets no breaks, it's part of who he is.

[kahunablair]

This is REALLY sadistic, but I would love to see Peter go through with it and save May. He gives up everything he's been, and May is back and semi-healthy.

Then the last panel shows May not paying attention and walking in front of a bus.

Is that wrong?

[jimski]

the conceit that Peter would leave the love of his life just to save that old bag whose got to die sometime enrages me!!

I have been reading this a lot, and while I sort of agree I think what the creators would say (through the character) is that he's not saving Aunt May because she's dying; it's that she's dying directly because of him. He's not pondering the Mephisto deal-or-no-deal to save May from arterial sclerosis; he's doing it because he got her shot by the Kingpin. It gets right to the heart of his one big therapy issue. He didn't save Ben; he didn't save Gwen; but this time, by gum, etc etc.

[labor_days]

This thread makes me want to DIE.

Pretty much.

"I wanted my named taken off One More Day.", I can' wait to read those issues.

[davegraham]

Then the last panel shows May not paying attention and walking in front of a bus.

Is that wrong?

That is how a deal with the devil usually goes. But then at that point how does Peter not allign with Doctor Doom and Dr. Strange to storm Hell and make things right. And get back up from Loki. I mean making a pact with Dr. Doom makes about as Spider-man making one with Mephisto.

[davegraham]

I have been reading this a lot, and while I sort of agree I think what the creators would say (through the character) is that he's not saving Aunt May because she's dying; it's that she's dying directly because of him. He's not pondering the Mephisto deal-or-no-deal to save May from arterial sclerosis; he's doing it because he got her shot by the Kingpin. It gets right to the heart of his one big therapy issue. He didn't save Ben; he didn't save Gwen; but this time, by gum, etc etc.

That makes a lot of sense taking into account Spider-man's history. However Peter is supposed to be our everyman. And what guy(and I am not married so I can't speak from experience), no matter the circumstances, picks his elderly aunt over his life with his wife? I can't relate to that idea on any level.

I think it is going to be Mary Jane that makes the choice for Peter.

Regardless of who makes the decision, how is this anything but a giant cosmic divorce?

[esophagus]

Is there anything that could happen in that final issue that could cause you to say, "Huh... I'm really shocked by that" AND/OR "I think that made this whole experience worth it"?Everyone dies and the entire Spider-Man satga is done. Someone else can take over and start fresh in a while I guess, but Peter should be gone.

[jimski]

What if they get to the last couple of pages and Peter says, "Dude, you're the devil. And May is like 100 years old. Do I want to make a deal with you?" and then he webs Mephisto in the face and slaps him like he's Moe Howard?

[drwally]

What if they get to the last couple of pages and Peter says, "Dude, you're the devil. And May is like 100 years old. Do I want to make a deal with you?" and then he webs Mephisto in the face and slaps him like he's Moe Howard?

I was going to comment that the change of the status quo seems less relevant than the execution - and then Jimski just "executes" it just right! :)

[tad]

I got the last issue early!

FAKE SPOILER ALERT*****



Aunt May dies but MJ gets a weird wasting disease that keeps her frail and at the edge of death.

Everybody's happy because they stay together but Peter can go back to living in a cruel, thankless hell.


Oh wait, that won't work because Joe Q thinks that giving Peter the ability to date will open up all sorts of new, exciting storylines. Right.

[cam-]

That makes a lot of sense taking into account Spider-man's history. However Peter is supposed to be our everyman. And what guy(and I am not married so I can't speak from experience), no matter the circumstances, picks his elderly aunt over his life with his wife? I can't relate to that idea on any level.


I think you have to think of May as more of a mother than an elderly aunt, and lots of men would have a hard time choosing between their mother and their wife.

[jon_samuelson]

CAM!, that's true, but I also think it's a really false choice. It cannot be ignored that May is an elderly woman. I really don't think any person who sat down and looked at it objectively would bargain with the Devil, and give up the love of their life to keep alive a person who has already lived a long and fruitful life. This type of "option" just shouldn't even exist to Peter. If she were dying of natural causes it wouldn't even be a consideration to "trade-in" MJ for the extension of May's life. And I guess in this case there's the consideration of whatever guilt Peter may feel over Aunt May's condition, but I don't really think that would ultimately change the end decision.

[davegraham]

There is a problem with looking at Peter's dilemma with the same logic we use in the real world. You can't reason out how you would make a deal with the Devil, because the there is no real world presidence for it. Which is why Mephisto doesn't belong in a Spider-man plot, because the reader can't engage with him on a real world level. Short of volunteering for a life threatening medical procedure that can result in the deaths of the donor and the sick, what real life analog are they expecting us to use to get into this story?

[drwally]

Dave, that's just about the most convincing argument I've heard - makes a whole lotta sense.

[drwally]

davegraham: There is a problem with looking at Peter's dilemma with the same logic we use in the real world. You can't reason out how you would make a deal with the Devil, because the there is no real world presidence for it. Which is why Mephisto doesn't belong in a Spider-man plot, because the reader can't engage with him on a real world level. Short of volunteering for a life threatening medical procedure that can result in the deaths of the donor and the sick, what real life analog are they expecting us to use to get into this story?

That is a pretty convincing point, to me at least...

[davegraham]

Thanks, sometimes I get on a rant and things don't come out quite as well as they sound in my head. I guess I did good this time.

[cam-]

It cannot be ignored that May is an elderly woman. I really don't think any person who sat down and looked at it objectively would bargain with the Devil, and give up the love of their life to keep alive a person who has already lived a long and fruitful life.

But, You could argue that a peter's not in a position to BE objective, so he can't look at it objectively, it's about his guilt, in his head and hearrt

[esophagus]

Has it been talked about at all in the Spider-Books recently that Peter has some sort of mental illness? I think giving him severe clinical depression or something is a quick way to, not necassirly solve all of this, but, at the very least make sense of it.

[racemccloud]

You know, love it or hate it... what Marvel comic is generating more discussion right now than "Spider Man: One More Day"? I'm enjoying the story, and I liked the last issue, and I liked that they brought in an A-List Marvel villain for the story. I'm very interested to see where JMS takes this (love it or hate it) and it may turn out that I hate the resolution. I just try not to pass final judgement on a story until it's over. I like this arc. To me, it's no more unbelievable than any superhero story. Actually, it's more believable. More cultures have devils than they do demigods.

[jables48]

This bookis bumming me out. I'm a hardcore Spidey Fanboy, and I'm sad inside. Aunt May just needs to die at this point. I don't like Joey Q too much, I don't care if Mephisto looks really pretty.

[jonathand-gordon]

I have been reading and have been forwarded this qoute over and over.
I have soooo many thoughts.

"In the current storyline, there's a lot that I don't agree with, and I
made this very clear to everybody within shouting distance at Marvel,
especially Joe. I'll be honest: there was a point where I made the
decision, and told Joe, that I was going to take my name off the last
two issues of the OMD arc. Eventually Joe talked me out of that
decision because at the end of the day, I don't want to sabotage Joe
or Marvel, and I have a lot of respect for both of those. As an
executive producer as well as a writer, I've sometimes had to insist
that my writers make changes that they did not want to make, often
loudly so. They were sure I was wrong. Mostly I was right.
Sometimes I was wrong. But whoever sits in the editor's chair, or the
executive producer's chair, wears the pointy hat of authority, and as
Dave Sim once noted, you can't argue with a pointy hat.

So at the end of the day, all one can do is try to do the best one can
with the notes one is given, and try to execute them in a professional
way...because who knows, the other guy may be right. The only thing I
*can* tell you, with absolute certainty, is that what Joe does with
Spidey and all the rest of the Marvel characters, he does out of a
genuine love of the character. He's not looking to sabotage anything,
he's not looking to piss off the fans, he genuinely believes in the
rightness of his views not out of a sense of "I'm the boss" but
because he loves these characters and the Marvel universe.

And right or wrong, you have to respect that.

jms"





1. Is this a real qoute, or did somebody make this up?

2. If this is true, the second have sounds like a letter from abused wife about her husband. He doesn't mean to hurt me. He hits me because he loves me.

[jonathand-gordon]

By the way, I don't think Joe Q's Regime is all bad. To the contrary there have been many great moments. This appears to be the case of a guy who wants to do huge things with every character in the marvel universe. Things that had never been done before. I think half the time as readers we find ourselves saying "Wow, that was a great Idea. Why was that never done before?" the other half of he time we see exactly why things like unmasking spiderman,daredevil,giving away wolverines origin had not been done before.
I used to hate the old guard comic writers who moved stories along at a snails pace and always left us with a cock tease. I think this Regime might have "paid off" every cock tease built up for the 50 years of marvel history. I don't know what that leaves for future writers at marvel. It is Interesting to say the least. You can't accuse Joe Q of letting Marvel comicsfall out of the conversation. In fact they are almost solely the conversation nowadays.

[fred]

where did this quote come from?

[jaflanagan]

I think this is the place, but I'm not sure I understand what the website is. They collect all his web postings, I guess.

http://jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-17697

[fred]

thanks Josh. In looking through the site, it appears as though someone has put together a site that tracks all of JMS' usenet posts.

Why? I have no idea.

This message originally appeared in a post to rec.arts.comics.marvel.universe

[jonathand-gordon]

thanks Josh. In looking through the site, it appears as though someone has put together a site that tracks all of JMS' usenet posts.

Why? I have no idea.

This message originally appeared in a post to rec.arts.comics.marvel.universe

I first saw it on the Spider-cast website and then on a newsarama thread. It was laso emailed to me a few times. This qoute really doesn't bode well for the future of the spiderman storyline. (If it is true.) I thought it was so odd.
Isn't this sabotaging the already sabotaged storyline.

[labor_days]

Jimski posted (http://www.revision3.com/forum/showpost.php?p=247513&postcount=169) this on page 17 (http://www.revision3.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9441&page=17).

We had 5 pages of discussin' afterward. Just saying.

[cammyknoxville]

I wish I could go back in time for one more day, and stop myself from picking up issue 1.

[euchre0]

One thing bothers me about the "Peter Parker is an everyman" theory. He is afflicted with problems that an everyman has, sure, but he was also bestowed with gifts and situations that removed him from the everyman characteristic almost from the beginning.

First of all, he is a scientific genius. Most people can't relate to that.

When he started dating Betty Brant, Liz Allen, the most popular girl in his high school, who was dating the star quarterback suddenly starts to like him, dumps the QB, and pursues Peter even though he isn't super interested in her. This went on for, like, the first 20+ issues. Not very everyman-ish.

Then he goes to college and the super hot girl that all the guys pine for goes after Peter. She sees this quiet science scholarship student who doesn't pay attention to her, so she is suddenly consumed with getting "wallflower Parker" to notice her. At the same time, he's met MJ, and even though she is a wild party girl, she keeps going on dates with this guy she thinks is kinda square.

Not to mention that he randomly befriends a billionaire's son who invites Peter to move into a nice apartment close to campus for free..

This is just in the first 40 or so issues.

So it doesn't seem that in 1987 Peter somehow lost his everyman status by marrying a supermodel, since he's been the attention of all the hot women who ever noticed him since he was bitten by the spider.

By the way, I am not exactly arguing with anyone. I'm just jotting down some thoughts I have whenever I hear that being married or being an Avenger makes him unrelatable.

[conorkilpatrick]

So it doesn't seem that in 1987 Peter somehow lost his everyman status by marrying a supermodel, since he's been the attention of all the hot women who ever noticed him since he was bitten by the spider.

There are miles and miles between dating hot women and dating supermodels.

[esophagus]

Peter parker is an everyman who got all the things an everyman wishes they could have, and he got them by being noble, courageous, and a good person. That's the point of the book. It shows us that good things will come to you if you deserve them, even if you're an everyman, and it throws example after example at us of those good things, and how to deal with the negative side of getting to that point. Peter Parker is the everyman within the fantasyman within the everyman.

[conorkilpatrick]

I would disagree with that assessment.

[esophagus]

I would disagree with that assessment.Any explanation to that?

[euchre0]

There are miles and miles between dating hot women and dating supermodels.

There are, but he dated her when she was just a hot women and not a model. :)

[conorkilpatrick]

Any explanation to that?

I've written about it all through out this thread and elsewhere.

Spider-Man is so universally relatable because his problems and his issues are universal. Not because of the "good things come to good people" principal.

[conorkilpatrick]

There are, but he dated her when she was just a hot women and not a model. :)

And the instant they made MJ into a supermodel/internationally famous actress they disconnected Peter from his everyman status.

[esophagus]

I've written about it all through out this thread and elsewhere.

Spider-Man is so universally relatable because his problems and his issues are universal. Not because of the "good things come to good people" principal.That's what I meant by and how to deal with the negative side of getting to that pointI think both are important traits in him. His problems being universal is definitely the much more important side of things, but that side doesn't relate to the points Euchre was saying. Being an everyman is what drives him, but I think the 'good things come to good people" principle being apparent in the book is undeniable.

[euchre0]

Peter parker is an everyman who got all the things an everyman wishes they could have, and he got them by being noble, courageous, and a good person. That's the point of the book. It shows us that good things will come to you if you deserve them, even if you're an everyman, and it throws example after example at us of those good things, and how to deal with the negative side of getting to that point. Peter Parker is the everyman within the fantasyman within the everyman.

I get that he's an everyman compared to most other hereoes. Superman's an alien. Batman's a billionaire. Wolverine is a science project tough guy. Cap is a soldier out of time. The Hulk is a monster. Daredevil is blind. The X-Men are mutants, etc.

Spider-Man has a costume that covers his faces, so as he swings by, he could be black, white, asian, hispanic, eskimo, whatever. As Peter Parker, he struggles with paying rent, his responsibility to his parental figure, a jackass boss, girls, stuff that paints him as an everyman. That doesn't mean that having an extraordinary occurrence makes him no longer an everyman. Say instead of marrying a supermodel, he put his business card in prize drawing and happen to win $100,000.00 car. That wouldn't strip him of his "everyman-hood." So one can view a marriage in a similar vein. It doesn't strip him of his everyman status, because even being married to a supermodel, he still worried about rent, his job, his Aunt, etc.

Compared to the rest of the superheroes, he's still the everyman. It hasn't changed. I was just saying that the character is constantly held to an ideal that was never there.

[davegraham]

Peter is an everyman in that he finds it difficult to relate to the people around him. As teenage Peter Parker he cannot relate to his peers, because he is a nerd. As Spider-man he cannot relate to people, because The Bugle makes him out to be a criminal to the general population, his Aunt was terrified of Spider-man, and letting anyone get close to him puts that person in danger. Everyone has felt at a distance to somebody or some people at a point in our lives. And everyone has felt unable to figure out how to get close to that person or people. And that is the conflict Spider-man should always have.

Does that make sense?

[euchre0]

And the instant they made MJ into a supermodel/internationally famous actress they disconnected Peter from his everyman status.

even though for much of that time she's struggled with her career and hasn't been super famous? His "everyman" problems have lingered no matter which chick he was paired up with. Mary Jane has gone from supermodel to crappy actress to grad student, to model, to play actress and maybe some things I am missing. Through most of this, the Parkers always go back to money problems, work problems, and worrying about Aunt May (and occasionally Aunt Anna). So the things that make Peter an everyman are still there, or at the very least, take short leave of absences, only to come back again. Even being a swanky Avenger only lasted so long.

[euchre0]

Peter is an everyman in that he finds it difficult to relate to the people around him. As teenage Peter Parker he cannot relate to his peers, because he is a nerd. As Spider-man he cannot relate to people, because The Bugle makes him out to be a criminal to the general population, his Aunt was terrified of Spider-man, and letting anyone get close to him puts that person in danger. Everyone has felt at a distance to somebody or some people at a point in our lives. And everyone has felt unable to figure out how to get close to that person or people. And that is the conflict Spider-man should always have.

Does that make sense?

It does. But, again, it seems to me that it is an ideal that is more romanticized than real. Soon after going to college, Peter won over the students that didn't like him, including Flash Thompson as he was leaving for the Vietnam war. This was in the early 40's (issue #) of the Amazing Spider-Man title! From that point on, most people liked him. Or, if he got off on the wrong foot, always ended up being liked by everyone, including Jonah Jameson.

[davegraham]

It does. But, again, it seems to me that it is an ideal that is more romanticized than real. Soon after going to college, Peter won over the students that didn't like him, including Flash Thompson as he was leaving for the Vietnam war. This was in the early 40's (issue #) of the Amazing Spider-Man title! From that point on, most people liked him. Or, if he got off on the wrong foot, always ended up being liked by everyone, including Jonah Jameson.

I think that is why people like Joe Q have been calling of a reboot so Spider-man could be returned to a more traditional image for his everyman status.

[gungadin]

I dunno. I find that when the "Everyman" gets all he hopes for (Mary Jane... Aunt May still happy and breathing, teammates who care about him) that sorta makes the story "happily ever after" for me...

And Spider-man shouldn't get a happily ever after until his story is finished... And his story is most assuredly not finished...

[conorkilpatrick]

even though for much of that time she's struggled with her career and hasn't been super famous? His "everyman" problems have lingered no matter which chick he was paired up with. Mary Jane has gone from supermodel to crappy actress to grad student, to model, to play actress and maybe some things I am missing.

Like I said, the moment she became a supermode/actress he stopped being an everyman.

Through most of this, the Parkers always go back to money problems, work problems, and worrying about Aunt May (and occasionally Aunt Anna). So the things that make Peter an everyman are still there, or at the very least, take short leave of absences, only to come back again. Even being a swanky Avenger only lasted so long.

It is completely unrealistic that the current version of Peter Parker would have money problems because of the life they have given him. Therfore when they shoehorn in the "everyman" stuff it rings completely hollow.

He is riddled with problems that take me out of the story and cause me to no longer care about him.

[gungadin]

He is riddled with problems that take me out of the story and cause me to no longer care about him.

Pardon my ignoramusness, but Conor, are you opposed to them breaking up the marriage?

[conorkilpatrick]

Pardon my ignoramusness, but Conor, are you opposed to them breaking up the marriage?

I'm very much pro the reboot. I wish it was a full reboot, rolling his age back likfe five years.

I'm excited to read MU Spider-Man comics again.

[euchre0]

I think that is why people like Joe Q have been calling of a reboot so Spider-man could be returned to a more traditional image for his everyman status.

Absolutely they are. But my point is that Peter's personality and social interactions started to evolve after 3 years of existence. So reverting him back is like saying, "Let's take Captain America back to the day he emerged from the ice, since classic Cap is struggling to the changed world!" when Cap's presence has been monumental in the Marvel Universe since he was unfrozen.

[jimski]

Like I said, the moment she became a supermode/actress he stopped being an everyman. And when she became a supermodel, Peter sold a book of his Spidey photos to a publisher and went on an extensive book tour. One of the books (Avengers?) recently mentioned this for the first time in a long time. I thought that was a little too much success for ol' Pete... at least until he moved into Tony Stark's penthouse and got a butler to go with his supermodel wife.

[paper]

One thing the third film got right. MJ is a mediocre actress and they can barely scrape by.

[davegraham]

Absolutely they are. But my point is that Peter's personality and social interactions started to evolve after 3 years of existence. So reverting him back is like saying, "Let's take Captain America back to the day he emerged from the ice, since classic Cap is struggling to the changed world!" when Cap's presence has been monumental in the Marvel Universe since he was unfrozen.

Hey I happen to agree with you. I'd like nothing more than for Pete to remain who he is and for writers to be able to spin his current lifestyle into the everyman form. The thing is, I am not so sure that can be done. Apart of me thinks that keeping Peter bouncing from girl to girl. Never being able to completely form bonds with anyone. Always hated by The Bugle, Aunt May (Spider-man not Peter), and a loner seems like it would get stale after a while. I mean we're talking about giving this guy another Gwen Stacy to be tossed off a bridge. And then another. And then another. Sure there will be some Black Cat's in there and Betty Brant's, but ultimately they are all going to go away because Pete is impossible to be with. I'd like the guy evolve, but I don't know what that means for Spider-man. Seemingly that is hooking up with MJ, revealing his ID to Aunt May, and becoming an Avenger, but then all of those things diminish his ability to represent the everyman. So let Marvel try something else for a while and lets see what happens.

All that really matters are the Spider-man comics we read this week. There is no sense in getting upset over wrecking continuity, because we can always go back and read that Marvel Universe in trades and there is no sense getting peeved over the comics that aren't written yet because their plots are up in the air. Oh wait, they aren't publishing any Spider-man comics this week. Ah well.

[gungadin]

I'm very much pro the reboot. I wish it was a full reboot, rolling his age back life five years.

I'm excited to read MU Spider-Man comics again.

I dunno if I'm in favor of rolling him back five years, but retconning it so it's different... That's good.. It's not Peter's age that bothers me, it's just the stupid crap that's going on in his life...

[kahunablair]

Wait, I thought the outcome wasn't just that he'd lose MJ, but also that he'd be reverted to a kid.
Guess I'm wrong....

[conorkilpatrick]

Wait, I thought the outcome wasn't just that he'd lose MJ, but also that he'd be reverted to a kid.
Guess I'm wrong....

That was the original rumor.

[kahunablair]

That was the original rumor.

Gotcha. So I wasn't making it up, I'm just a sheep. Good to know. ;)

[euchre0]

I'm very much pro the reboot.

That's just because you lean more toward DC, where a reboot is as common as an odd numbered issue, right? ;)

[conorkilpatrick]

That's just because you lean more toward DC, where a reboot is as common as an odd numbered issue, right? ;)

No, not exactly.

[kahunablair]

Reboot's aren't confined to DC.

http://en.marveldatabase.com/Reboot

[euchre0]

I was only kidding.:(

I was just poking fun at the stigma DC carries of not being as concerned with continuity as Marvel. Of course, Marvel never lives up to their name in that department either.

[esophagus]

I was only kidding.:(

I was just poking fun at the stigma DC carries of not being as concerned with continuity as Marvel. Of course, Marvel never lives up to their name in that department either.In my opinion, Marvel is worse for continuity. That's just me though.

[davegraham]

In my opinion, Marvel is worse for continuity. That's just me though.

Really? I dont mean to sound like I am challenging your statement, but as I observe it Marvel's reboots don't really impact the regular flow of their continuity. There is a linear history that connects the current issues with their 1960's origins. I think it is true that Marvel avoids trying to date their heroes, but no stories have been wiped away and a character reset from scratch. Am I wrong?

[jimski]

I feel as though by now I have done at least graduate-level work in the field of Marvelology, and while Marvel will retcon you so hard your brains end up on the pavement I don't think of them as real rebooters in any meaningful sense.

Every time they try (John Byrne's Spider-Man, Heroes Reborn) they end up sobering up and backing away from it and coming back to the status quo. (Just like they're going to do when Pete and MJ are married again in five years. That's right! I said it!) They're very good at taking a clone saga or a spider-baby and saying, "Let us never speak of this again, under penalty of torture." But I can't think of a time when some galactic force came along and said, "This universe is a mess; the last six years never happened. Fetch me the cosmic dustbuster." In contrast, as a child on the outside looking in on DC fandom, it seemed to me like every couple of months a Zero Hour or a Crisis came along to balance the continuity checkbook; I never got into DC books because they always seemed to be accounting exercises to my young mind. "Earth-12 times Earth-14, minus Earth-7, carry the Superman...."

Of course, they did some pretty wacky s*** to settle up the New Universe back in the day; that approached Crisis levels to the ten people who still cared.

[euchre0]

Plus, the Marvel reboots are usually poorly executed and changed back soon after. Personally, my favorite reboot is the Byrne Superman in the 80's.

[euchre0]

In contrast, as a child on the outside looking in on DC fandom, it seemed to me like every couple of months a Zero Hour or a Crisis came along to balance the continuity checkbook; I never got into DC books because they always seemed to be accounting exercises to my young mind. "Earth-12 times Earth-14, minus Earth-7, carry the Superman...."

That's what I was kidding about.