Theora feeds not updating

[popey]

The theora feeds have not updated since August 23rd. Can someone please take a look?

[logant]

Do we even need Theora?

[popey]

Unfortunately there is not a single format that works "out of the box" on every device and operating system. Traditionally AVIs contain content encoded in a way that windows-based media players will be able to open. MOVs generally contain data encoded in a way that Apple products (Apple TV, OS X, iPods etc) can open and play seamlessly. OGGs tend to contain data that is encoded (using the vorbis and theora codecs) in a way that Linux based systems can read.

Each container has it's own benefits, for me the benefit of OGG (theora/vorbis) is that it plays out of the box on the systems I use. So whilst you might not want/need it "we" do.

[thear]

I'm almost certain that Xvid and Quicktime works on Linux using VLC. Also, Theora is DEAD, no one bothers to encode or download this format.

[popey]

I'm almost certain that Xvid and Quicktime works on Linux using VLC. Also, Theora is DEAD, no one bothers to encode or download this format.

Note that I said "out of the box" in my reply. I was indicating here that only ogg/theora/vorbis plays on most virgin installs of Linux. Linux vendors generally cannot supply non-free (i.e. patent encumbered) software which is why many formats such as avi/mpeg4/mov/h.264 don't play on Linux "out of the box". It's also why ogg/theora/vorbis is popular amongst Linux users. It's not encumbered by patents in the same way that (for example) mp3 and h.264 are.

You can indeed play Xvid and h.264 video on Linux if you install non-free software such as VLC.

In addition to which I'd like to see evidence for your assertion that theora is "dead". I recently made some videos available in ogg/theora/vorbis format and they were pretty popular - ok - not diggnation type popular but I still get many many thousands of downloads of the ogg/theora/vorbis version of the videos I make.

I would also point out that I am merely asking for rev3 to fix a feed that was _already_ _working_ and is now not. Either they stopped making the videos available deliberately or something in the process is broken. Either way I'm not asking for the moon on a stick - just for a feed which people do use to work again.

Not unreasonable I think.

[thear]

I consider VLC "out of the box", all it takes is a simple command to install on most Linux OS. A lot of things don't work "out of the box", many things require simple configuration changes.

[thear]

If you look through http://iptvshows.org/, you would see a percentage close to zero, encodes in Theora video format.

[chuckles]

The theora feeds have not updated since August 23rd. Can someone please take a look?

We have discontinued theora formats for our shows. We offer Xvid, QuickTime, and WMV. For some shows, such as DiggNation, we also offer mp3.



-chuckles-

[popey]

That's disappointing. Why did you stop making the theora feeds?

[shadow2531]

HTML5 specifies that Theora + Vorbis in .ogg SHOULD be supported (http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#video0) for the video element. It's the baseline format for HTML5.

There's a snapshot (http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/2007-10-26/multipage/) of HTML5 ready for public commenting. There's also an HTML5 validator (http://validator.whatwg.org/).

Also, there's already an experimental build that supports .ogg and the video element. See A call for video on the web (http://labs.opera.com/). Apple and Mozilla are experimenting with video element support also.

Also, videolan can play ogg in and out of browsers (even on windows).

You can play theora in WMP (http://illiminable.com/ogg/) too if you want to.

And, there's ffmpeg2theora (http://v2v.cc/~j/ffmpeg2theora/) to convert videos to theora.

You can also play theora with Cortado applets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cortado_(software)).

Point being, theora, vorbis and the .ogg container are here to stay and backed by a major specification and even Opera.

I'm dissapointed that the small theora feeds are no longer updated.

[wizmaster]

HTML5 specifies that Theora + Vorbis in .ogg SHOULD be supported (http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#video0) for the video element. It's the baseline format for HTML5.

There's a snapshot (http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/2007-10-26/multipage/) of HTML5 ready for public commenting. There's also an HTML5 validator (http://validator.whatwg.org/).

Also, there's already an experimental build that supports .ogg and the video element. See A call for video on the web (http://labs.opera.com/). Apple and Mozilla are experimenting with video element support also.

Also, videolan can play ogg in and out of browsers (even on windows).

You can play theora in WMP (http://illiminable.com/ogg/) too if you want to.

And, there's ffmpeg2theora (http://v2v.cc/~j/ffmpeg2theora/) to convert videos to theora.

You can also play theora with Cortado applets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cortado_(software)).

Point being, theora, vorbis and the .ogg container are here to stay and backed by a major specification and even Opera.

I'm dissapointed that the small theora feeds are no longer updated.

Well, since Theora is no longer alpha and is feature frozen, it might be a good idea to use now. I've always had a few problems with Theora but it was alpha so I didn't mind too much. Once Theora is fine and comparable (still kinda sucks IMO) I'll enjoy it a lot more (open specs and all that jazz). I haven't seen any videos using the new beta encoder so I'm not sure how much better the video is.

As for the spec, **** YEA! That makes me happy. Theora can only get better so this is still great news.

[shadow2531]

I also liked the small theora ones because:

1. Downloads were smaller than the rest.

2. Less cpu was required to play them compared to the rest.

3. Looked a lot better than the small .wmv and just as good as the other small ones.

It was win win win.

Also, when I first discovered theora was offered for the vids, I was very impressed and thought revision3 was extra cool for doing it.

[shadow2531]

Opera released a newer version of Opera with ogg theora support (http://digg.com/software/Opera_Browser_with_HTML5_Native_Video_and_3D_Canva s_Support) today. There are bunch of examples including SVG filters being applied to theora video. They even have theora demos on wikipedia that work in this build.

They talked about theora at the W3C technical plenary (http://blog.whatwg.org/the-whatwg-at-the-w3c-technical-plenary) today (including this build of Opera) and all the talks were available live through streaming ogg vorbis.

[jdhore]

I felt i needed to throw my hat into the ring here. I'm personally a full-time Linux user and i have to say, i don't need Theora. Sure it's nice to have a 100% open format, but the first thing i do when i install linux is install codecs for EVERYTHING so there's never a video i can't watch. Personally, if you don't want to spend 5 minutes downloading VLC or gstreamer0.10-plugins-whatever-one-has-xvid (I personally use Xine, i dunno which Gstreamer package has Xvid support off the top of my head), don't watch the show, it's that simple. Also, to be completely honest, Xvid is an open-source codec as well...

So to recap, if you don't want to spend 5 minutes to install Flash 9 or a codec that does support one of the formats of Diggnation, f*ck off or give me a decent reason for why you don't.

Also, i used to be staff on a reasonably large IPTV show...We had at one point well over 20,000 viewers an episode...and no one ever whined about us only releasing 1 format of the show (640x480 Xvid).

EDIT: As for the spec of Theora, i think it's a great idea...Small filesizes, damn good quality, but until it's somewhat widely adopted in OS's other than Linux, don't expect to find much content on the web in it.

[shadow2531]

Personally, if you don't want to spend 5 minutes downloading VLC...

VLC is what I use to watch videos with (on windows). Since the theora ones have been gone, I've been downloading the small xvid ones (downloading the TRS one right now) and playing them in vlc.

I still prefer the theora ones for all the reasons I listed previously. I of course have flash also, but flash isn't very efficient (I'll download the file instead and play it in vlc).


EDIT: As for the spec of Theora, i think it's a great idea...Small filesizes, damn good quality, but until it's somewhat widely adopted in OS's other than Linux, don't expect to find much content on the web in it.


I already found such content here, just nothing new since the change. Lack of a feature is one thing. Removing a feature is another.