Has Obama changed Washington or has Washington Changed Obame?

[bobv13]

Just asking what happened to Guantanamo? What's happened to not doing business behind closed doors? What happened to ending playing world cop? From my perspective it's the latter.

[tokenuser]

I think he found out that it isn't the politicians that run the country, but the entrenched beauracrats in the departments ... and that level of inertia is hard to overcome.

Gitmo? Was always going to be a problem. Stupid promise to make. Noone wants the terrorists on (mainland) US soil, and the legal issues of if it is a military or civil court issue was never really considered. Pretty much a non issue though. I don't think the American people particularly care about this one either way.
Closed doors? He has come a long way towards a more transparent government ... but it takes a lot of work, and not everything should be seen in public.
World cop? Notice how before anything happened in Libya that the full support of NATO was engaged, and while the US too the lead, that role rapidly moved to a support role.

There are much much bigger issues to deal with.

Economy? Employment? China? Existing middle east conflicts? Donald Trump?

[bobv13]

Oh yes employment, he was going to fix that too. (not that I think anyone could have fixed it) The biggest danger to the US is the national debt. Trump is just this weeks distraction. When the world looses faith in our ability to make good on our debt the US will be looking like a third world country over night. (my prediction is 2016) and that is mostly because the average American is too interested in believing in the status quo to elect a leader that will tell them the truth. We are are on a run away train baby

BTW could borrow your avatar?

[tokenuser]

I wish the Democrats would realise that you cant just spend (but I agree that there ARE some projects that have long term benefits, so just like buying a house at a personal level or paying for college, the long term benefits are there - they just need to choose those projects more carefully).

I wish that the Republicans would realise that taxes are not evil, and that closing loopholes and raising the tax levels back to what they were when we had a budget SURPLUS is not going to stifle growth or kill jobs.

I wish that the public would realise that they need to stop supporting the sideshow that politics has become - and that includes the extreme left, and extreme right. Growth and stability will happen with the middle ground.

Sadly, I expect to see a Trump/Bachmann 2012 ticket.

[masherscf]

I think that Washington as changed the way we think about Obama.

[willammt]

Originally Posted by tokenuser

I wish the Democrats would realise that you cant just spend (but I agree that there ARE some projects that have long term benefits, so just like buying a house at a personal level or paying for college, the long term benefits are there - they just need to choose those projects more carefully).

I wish that the Republicans would realize that taxes are not evil, and that closing loopholes and raising the tax levels back to what they were when we had a budget SURPLUS is not going to stifle growth or kill jobs.

I wish that the public would realize that they need to stop supporting the sideshow that politics has become - and that includes the extreme left, and extreme right. Growth and stability will happen with the middle ground.

Sadly, I expect to see a Trump/Bachmann 2012 ticket.

Very nice points and mostly agreeable. I think medicare and social security are nice programs but both are circling the drain because they can't be funded. Every time someone offers any kind of fix or even minor cut back it turns into a three ring circus.

As for taxes I would love a flat tax simple form no deductions just this is what you owe system. With a joined bill that says that congress must have a balanced budget with only 90% expenditure on programs and the rest automatically going to pay back debt. Abolish inheritance tax and as for state taxes they can only tax equal to or less than federal tax. Abolish all property tax on primary residence property and also abolish sales taxes.

Now the figure of total taxes that the federal government seems to be able to sustainable collect is 20% of the total GDP and from the regular person about 30% total income I found the number several different places. States levy more but this is just federal so say being reasonable they institute a 20% tax across the board and a move to a say 15% tax effect on the GDP. Would you guys find this acceptable with a clause that says in times of war they can move it up to the 30% mark with one years warning in case of war? Would you vote yes on this if included was a rider that they had to maintain the balanced budget I mentioned earlier with the allowance that after the debt is paid the budget can move to 95% usage with the remaining 5% removed from the currency to deflate the highly over inflated dollar?

Lastly Trump is not going to be the Republican presidential candidate he is a ring master and belongs in his TV circus we are trying to get rid of the circus not add more acts.

Willam

[willammt]

Originally Posted by tokenuser

I think he found out that it isn't the politicians that run the country, but the entrenched beauracrats in the departments ... and that level of inertia is hard to overcome.

Gitmo? Was always going to be a problem. Stupid promise to make. Noone wants the terrorists on (mainland) US soil, and the legal issues of if it is a military or civil court issue was never really considered. Pretty much a non issue though. I don't think the American people particularly care about this one either way.
Closed doors? He has come a long way towards a more transparent government ... but it takes a lot of work, and not everything should be seen in public.
World cop? Notice how before anything happened in Libya that the full support of NATO was engaged, and while the US too the lead, that role rapidly moved to a support role.

There are much much bigger issues to deal with.

Economy? Employment? China? Existing middle east conflicts? Donald Trump?

Again agree somewhat but Obama isn't transparent and if he was for transparency he would never sign a bill that no one had time to read through or understand that were voted on. Before anyone jumps I am not talking about Obama care alone there have been other bills and will be in the future. Had he truly wanted transparency he would have started with a bill before the congress to make all bills plain text and yes this can be done. Asked for a second bill requiring limits on bill lengths or that they be broken up into portions that can be voted on and so the people voting can understand what is being voted on. Further a time limit between submission and voting of a week meaning seven full days including a public display on the internet of the full law.

As for Gitmo I agree it was stupid to promise but also I know some cities campaigned to be the venue of the trials. I heard that the city council of Mobile, Alabama sent a letter to the White house concerning it and said they would be happy to make all the arrangements for the trials to happen at the Federal court in Mobile. It is a shortish boat ride from Gitmo to Mobile and I am sure they could have found a group not willing to yell guilty as the defendant walked in. Which truthfully was the real problem with civilian trials most people are hard pressed to be impartial with a suspected terrorist.

As for the economy well I don't fully blame Obama he bears some responsibility that comes with the office. I blame Bush too but little will be done about it and as you said in another post its a circus and the show will go on till the money runs out. (This here is a sarcastic joke for those who won't understand) Then it will be time to mount up on my dune buggy put on my steel goalie mask and lead my cohort to what is best in life. Just need to do a few crunches for the abs.

Willam

[tokenuser]

Regarding taxes - the biggest loopholes for personal tax is income.

Abolish income tax (yay - keeps the Republicans VERY happy).

Add multi tiers of sales tax (GST - Goods and Services Tax / Value Added Tax).
- Staple goods: Fresh food, milk, groceries, etc ... no tax. Until it has value added (like in a restaurant).
- General goods: Tax at x%
- Luxury goods (Group A - Domestic, over a certain price point): Tax at y% (where x% < y%).
- Luxury goods (Group B - Imports, over a certain price point): Tax at z% (where y% < z%).

Medicare and Social Security need to stay. Like guns they are entrenched in the system, and for many who have lived on minimum wages jobs they are the only safety net they have. They need to be fully funded to be effective, and that is a huge challenge. Perhaps some of that excess military budget go someplace else ...

Corporate taxes are another story. Tax companies that offshore their assets to avoid taxes at a higher rate than companies that are actually contributing to the economy. Close the loopholes.

State and county/city taxes need addressing as well. Without a federal income tax, the need for a tax return is reduced. So, perhaps apportioning out the federal taxes based on the sales tax collection from the state might be appropriate (states with larger more affluent populations get a bigger slice of the pie, but thats how it is now anyway). Counties and citys rely upon property taxes, they need to stay, but perhaps there is a local sales tax added on a city or county basis.

Capital gains is something I hate (I trade shares), but I see why its there - and agree with the long term vs short term taxation (it also help reduce market volatility).

Bottom line - tax code needs a complete overhaul. Other countries have gone down the VAT/GST route (UK, Australia, Canada) with varying levels of success. I thinkl it would work here except for one big thing ... the internet.

[willammt]

Originally Posted by tokenuser

Regarding taxes - the biggest loopholes for personal tax is income.

Abolish income tax (yay - keeps the Republicans VERY happy).

Medicare and Social Security need to stay. Like guns they are entrenched in the system, and for many who have lived on minimum wages jobs they are the only safety net they have. They need to be fully funded to be effective, and that is a huge challenge. Perhaps some of that excess military budget go someplace else ...

See now that is a reasonable idea but I guarantee you other than maybe some of the Tea Party no political group will back any of it. Democrats will scream about you abolishing income tax and Republicans will scream about higher taxes.

Medicare and Social Security are not sustainable the current set up is very much like a pyramid scheme. Try to alter it in anyway and suddenly you want Grandma to eat dog food and die of a treatable infections. The idea of you controlling your own SS money and investing it or it being in a government secured account where you choose from one of a few options like pure interest, Bonds, or something like that. Then my friend you are stealing from everyone else because your money isn't yours once the government has it.

My favorite was the recent idea where the government would cut a premium check every month to cover private health care insurance. Democrats started frothing for the fight on that one. its a reasonable idea put forward but as you mentioned before it will become a circus.

Both Medicare and Social Security need major overhauls and restrictions from other government agencies borrowing from them. Then after the fixes they should be funded but otherwise you are just asking for trouble.

Finally the military isn't over paid or over funded the problem is currently it is being overused. Had we not gone into Libya they could have cut some from the budget. Now they can't. Why did we go into Libya? Well it was a war for oil lead by Europe. Why are we letting clearly incompetent leadership run the show in Libya and waste our expensive bombs and fuel?

But I digress and leave you with the thought how much money could the US government save if it got rid of The Department of Education (relatively new agency and does nothing but hand out money that congress already directed), Internal Revenue Service (Simplify tax code and the FBI can go back to handling it), and Department of Homeland Security (Supposed to speed up inter agency communications but doesn't). I heard an estimate once that if the US cut back half the foreign aid (this includes only funding the UN at equal share levels), cut the mentioned departments, cut Obama care, and went to a non war fighting military spending budget then the over all US budget would come pretty close to balancing but that will never happen.

Willam

[phatlip]

Given the circumstances, I think Obama is doing alright. That's not to say he hasn't had his failures. Unemployment is a big one that comes to mind, and I frankly view the health care law as a failure as well. But if you take into consideration what he came into, and that the Republicans goal the past four years has solely surrounded him failing, I'd say not bad. Remember, there are people in our congress now who have their doubts that our President is even a US citizen. That's the sort of stuff the man's faced in his presidency. It's hard to get stuff done when you have that sort of bullshit on your plate.