Who Will Be The Next Moore, Miller or Lee?

[fred]

There are comic writers who achieve such a level of success and quality in their work that they clearly exist in a class above their peers of the moment and their historical peers. There are a handful of examples of this phenomenon and I'll choose three to illustrate the different reasons why I think they've achieved this status.

1. Stan Lee - Clearly no writer has had more impact on the Marvel U than Stan Lee. Stan Lee created characters that have endured in story after story for almost 50 years now. He created the Fantastic Four, Spider-Man, the X-Men, Daredevil, Dr. Strange, the Incredible Hulk, Thor, Iron Man, Black Panther and many more. He nearly populated the entire Marvel Universe with his creations. He makes this class for his role as a creator who created toys that hundred of writers have played with in the decades following.

2. Alan Moore - Alan Moore has created characters and stories in stand-alone situations that have been a cut above the rest. Examples of his volume of work include Watchmen, From Hell, V For Vendetta, Lost Girls, and The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. He has time and again raised our expectations about what one can do in the comics genre. His stories carry such depth and meaning. They are the stuff of actual legitimate literary work done with silly little pictures for us to enjoy. He makes this class as a creator who told stories that exist amongst themselves in quality and also situation.

3. Frank Miller - Frank Miller is a versatile writer who has done things that fall into many categories. He has excelled in the shared universe situation and actually managed to seemingly reinvent characters that had stood the test of time. He has also created stories that stand by themselves.

In the existing property category, he has written probably the best Batman stories ever told. The stories he told in Year One and Dark Knight Returns will live through the ages in the upper echelon of Batman, and for that matter, comic stories. This is remarkable; especially when you consider that Batman has been around since the 1930s.

He has also achieved this with other long-standing properties. Another magnificent example is Daredevil. Frank Miller breathed life and darkness into a character with an already rich history. He wrote The Man Without Fear, Born Again, and many other classic Daredevil stories.

In the new property category, Miller created Sin City and 300. Both of these stories stand as magnificent examples of graphic art and storytelling that could never have been done by someone else. They will also live on in the canon of the best that can be accomplished in the comic medium.

So, after giving three historical examples, I pose the question: Who amongst the writers of today may at point join the pantheon? There are a lot of people that you could point to as possible qualifiers by one of the examples above. Some viable candidates probably include: Bendis, Brian K Vaughn, Geoff Johns, Brad Meltzer, Winnick. This is a topic that we could endlessly discuss. Who will it be? How will we know when they're there? What will push them over the line?

Ed Brubaker is my choice. I think that he has a good chance within the Frank Miller model.

In the shared universe model, Brubaker has been magnificent. He has constantly delivered and well above expectations. My first example is his current run of Captain America. Coming into this run Marvel only had one rule in the 616 universe: Bucky stays dead. Brubaker brought him back to life, after approximately 60 years no less, and it was totally believable. Bucky is now just a part of the Marvel U again.

Another example is his current run on Daredevil. When Bendis left Daredevil, there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth and as well there should've been. He had just completed an excellent run of the highest quality. At the end of it, he had also painted Matt into a corner. How would Brubaker get him out? How would Brubaker ever meet the quality? He did it and did so convincingly. His run has the potential to be better than the previous Bendis run.

In the standalone/create your own model, Brubaker has also done great work. He's presently a few issues into Criminal, a noir crime book that is very promising. He's also had great success with Sleeper and a few others.

What will it take to put Brubaker into the previously vaunted company? Criminal has to be a big success. Daredevil needs to surpass Bendis' run. It may in a year or so more. He needs to do more creator owned items as well. I think that these things would push him over the line.

I think that Brubaker will be next, but I think you could make a case for the potential of any of the people I mentioned a few paragraphs above. Of course, none more so than Bendis.

What do you think?

[acomicbookgirl]

I would consider Neil Gaiman up there with them. Ed Brubaker? Hmm.. I don't know about that one yet..

Sorry to go off topic but are we going avatar happy fred? Its a tv rerun stroll along memory lane with you. Do you take requests?

[fred]

Originally Posted by acomicbookgirl

I would consider Neil Gaiman up there with them. Ed Brubaker? Hmm.. I don't know about that one yet..

I would disagree here but I really haven't read enough of his work to say.

Originally Posted by acomicbookgirl

Sorry to go off topic but are we going avatar happy fred? Its a tv rerun stroll along memory lane with you. Do you take requests?

I'm an avatar happy mofo. It's the way I was raised.

Yes I take requests.

As far as I'm concerned, go off topic as much as you like. I've been know to do the same.

[fred]

chachi is next

[acomicbookgirl]

Originally Posted by fred

chachi is next

Your call.. I wanted Bosom Buddies.. Either one of them.. Funny we were talking about him at work.. One of my co-workers has a thing for Scott Baio. She also has a thing for Tom Selleck.. There's another one...

[fred]

Originally Posted by acomicbookgirl

Your call.. I wanted Bosom Buddies.. Either one of them.. Funny we were talking about him at work.. One of my co-workers has a thing for Scott Baio. She also has a thing for Tom Selleck.. There's another one...

oooooh Bosom Buddies

[acomicbookgirl]

Originally Posted by fred

I'm an avatar happy mofo. It's the way I was raised.

Yes I take requests.

As far as I'm concerned, go off topic as much as you like. I've been know to do the same.

Bosom Buddies..

[orlov]

I think Brian K. Vaughan will honestly be the next big name in comics and movies/tv. Nobody ever whole hartedly agrees with anyones opinion but my opinion is that he will succeed faster than any other writers out there at the moment. Y: The Last Man, Runaways, Ex Machina, and Ultimate X-men are all great great floppys, and his GN Pride Of Baghdad is also very well done. Now that hes on the writing staff of lost who knows where his career will go, but I will take a guess he'll be "movin on up" sooner than the rest.

[marcushill73]

I have to take issue with Fred's assertion of of the impact Stan Lee had in the creation of Marvel's mainstay characters and titles.

What about Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko?????

Those familiar with Marvel's method of production know how plots are given to artists then illustrate before story is scripted. I am sure there are details I am missing out on, but my point is if someone were to view either Kirby's or Ditko's storyboards, you can see most of the plotting was done by these two artists, not by Lee.

Feel free to looks at Jack Kirby Collector published by TwoMorrows publishing. The consistently provide examples of Kirby's storyboards. Fantagraphics a few years back published The Comics Journal Library. Jack Kirby was the first featured creator. Each of his interviews with TCNJ over the years are collected here. Is this publication biased towards Lee? Yes. But it does provide an insight into what Kirby did, and what Lee did (as well as did not do).

Ditko is finally recognized at the latter end of his run as plotting stories of Amazing Spider-Man. As I described above, Ditko as the artist was plotting and drawing stories, before handing them off to Lee. Latter issues of Ditko's run on Spider-Man. At the latter point of Ditko's run, I am not even sure if Ditko and Lee were communicating. (Read the teaser at end of Amazing Spider-Man #35 for next issue: "Next Ish....A Swingin' Super-Villain So Different, So New, We Can't Even Tell you His Name Yet!") Lee didn't even know this character until subsequent issue.

Am I lessening Stan Lee's importance in the creation of Marvel Comics. Yes! We could argue until the cows come in who did what, and to what extent. But the fact remains that Stan Lee is co-creator of these properties, in the same way Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko are co-creators of Marvel's characters.

Considering Kirby's 102 issues on Fantastic Four and Ditko's 38 issues on Amazing Spider-Man.....which characters were created during their respective tenures.....to what extent are they vital to Marvel's success today?

Cheerio,
Marcus

[fred]

Originally Posted by orlov

I think Brian K. Vaughan will honestly be the next big name in comics and movies/tv. Nobody ever whole hartedly agrees with anyones opinion but my opinion is that he will succeed faster than any other writers out there at the moment. Y: The Last Man, Runaways, Ex Machina, and Ultimate X-men are all great great floppys, and his GN Pride Of Baghdad is also very well done. Now that hes on the writing staff of lost who knows where his career will go, but I will take a guess he'll be "movin on up" sooner than the rest.

BKV is actually in my big 3 with Bendis and Brubaker. I think that out of the three he has the best chance to get there in the Alan Moore mold but I also think that he has the least chance of the 3 to get there.