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  #51  
Old 04-10-2010, 08:27 AM
jonttupal
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Originally Posted by drawkward View Post
That's a pretty obvious bad faith cherry picking when there is no "current" Goku and if there was it would be Kai and not GT.

After all, GT is not part of the mainstream DBZ canon and with respect to time periods, you're selecting a non-canon version at the end of his run going back to the 90s when comic and anime fans were power crazy. To do the same for Superman, then, you have to pick a non-canon version at the end of a run which means either an end-of-an-era Superman (peak Golden, Bronze, or Silver Age, for example) or- like GT- a limited series, meaning beings like All Star Superman (who has a star-eater as a pet and pushes stars around) are in the running.

As for the endurance bit, I suspect that you'll find more instances of Goku reaching his limits and needing Senzu beans than you will find Superman needing solar sustenance. I can think of several occasions of the first whereas Superman starving never happens.

With respect to the teleportation... simply put, no.

Goku never shown the ability to teleport something against its will. That's why it's always, "Hold on tight!" before instant transmission and why Goku has NEVER used it as an offensive combat technique even when the world depended on it (if it were as simple as teleporting the threat away, why let Earth take the beating?). Even if Goku had the ability- which he doesn't- once again it falls into the category of cheap tricks that Goku would never resort to. If you're going to cut out his brain, character, personality, and temperament you might as well say, "Generic Saiyan v. Generic Kryptonian."

Goku has shown us that he despises dirty tactics and even if you handed him a block of Kryptonite or some other magic win- say the assembled balls- he'd never use them in a fight.
Sorry, but I have to correct you. He has not only teleported an enemy to take the danger away from his friends, but he has also used instant transmission in combination with the Kamehameha. (Remember when he fought Cell, just search instant transmission kamehameha) Not trying to disprove you in any way, your pretty spot saying this situation would never happen.
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  #52  
Old 04-10-2010, 12:32 PM
drawkward
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonttupal View Post
Sorry, but I have to correct you. He has not only teleported an enemy to take the danger away from his friends, but he has also used instant transmission in combination with the Kamehameha. (Remember when he fought Cell, just search instant transmission kamehameha) Not trying to disprove you in any way, your pretty spot saying this situation would never happen.
What I said was:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrAwkward
Goku never shown the ability to teleport something against its will. ... Goku has NEVER used it [teleportation itself] as an offensive combat technique even when the world depended on it (if it were as simple as teleporting the threat away . . .)
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Originally Posted by deus-ex-machina View Post
So I'm going with Goku over superman, because supermans ability's can be quelled by just transporting superman and goku to the otherworld, which seemingly has no sun.
The issue isn't whether Goku can combine a teleport with a kick, punch, or Kamahameha... there's no question of that... the question is whether he could or would use the tactic that d-e-m suggests, which is to teleport Superman- not just Goku himself- to another world without a yellow sun.

To the question of "could", we've never seen Goku use the teleport itself (not in combination with another attack) to teleport someone else offensively. That means dropping someone in the sun, a volcano, or teleporting away a limb. There's no proof he can do it. He can only teleport others who essentially co-operate (as Cell does by turning into a big ball that can't do anything but explode).

To the question of "would", we've already talked about cheating, we can also talk about bloodthirst. So someone like Nightcrawler might in theory be able to teleport away someone's head, but he never does it (cybernetic arms sure, but no lethal teleports as a rule)... likewise, Goku wouldn't do it even if he could. Finally, with respect to Cell, the teleport fits right into the character argument because the fight was over. With no more dueling to be had and his opponent with no more fight- just a bomb- there was no reason or difficulty in teleporting him away.

Last edited by drawkward : 04-10-2010 at 12:33 PM.
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  #53  
Old 04-11-2010, 05:21 AM
jonttupal
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Originally Posted by drawkward View Post
With no more dueling to be had and his opponent with no more fight- just a bomb- there was no reason or difficulty in teleporting him away.
Sorry, I forgot to clarify. I meant before the end of the fight, when he is just fighting him. Goku is in the air, looking down at Cell, while performing a kamehameha and towards end of the attack, right before he says the last ha, he teleports in front of him which I think is kind of underhanded. You'll find the clip if you search for Instant Transmission Kamehameha. As for "could he teleport someone against there will", he has. I vividly remember him doing so, but as you said not for an offensive purpose. I'm currently rewatching all of DBZ atm. I'll inform you when I come across the episode. However your absolutely right, Goku would never do this. He would never make the fight unfair for his opponent, but shortly and sweetly HE DEFINITELY COULD. Instant transmission is not necessarily about direct movement to another location. It's principal is based on a pocket dimension. You enter this pocket dimension and then enter the destination. So the technique is not about speed. All of that is explained in the Return of Cooler.

Last edited by jonttupal : 04-11-2010 at 05:21 AM.
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  #54  
Old 04-11-2010, 05:34 AM
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As much as I think Superman would win, I must point out that Goku does kinda cheat in that he loves eating those Senzu beans, even mid fight if I recall correctly.
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  #55  
Old 04-11-2010, 11:20 AM
drawkward
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Rather that get into a lengthy discussion as to what is or isn't cheating or underhanded, suffice to say, all that matters is that Goku considers it an instant and effortless win against an honorable and powerful opponent. Consistent with the series, that precludes teleport wins, wishing wins, etc. If Goku feels like he needs- and has access to- Senzu beans to keep going then he might justify it for himself but hold Superman to the same standard (that is, give him access to equipment available in his world) and you're facing [these are all modern era] Sun-Dipped Superman, King of The World/Graduation Day Superman Androids (powerful robots - one was enough to keep Young Justice and the Titans at bay, even killing one of them, a few more helped Superman conquer the world), Phantom Zone projectors, Boom Tube generators, JLA teleporters, etc. just to name a few (which he has used "ring-out" or capture big threats). Especially since Superman's world crosses with other comics (and all their equipment) it's a much more reasonable fight to referee without introducing non-standard equipment.

Re: Instant Transmission win - without a citation I seriously doubt it. Goku has never dumped a Superman class villain off in a pocket dimension to stem the tide of damage. Even in the case of Cell, he could have done that instead of destroying the Kai's planet if it were a possibility. If you can show an example, by all means, but I bet they'll be as ineffectual as engorged Cell which 1) Wouldn't work on Superman and; 2) Demonstrating why Goku can't use it against threats.
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  #56  
Old 04-29-2010, 01:13 PM
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I just. . I just can't support Goku winning over Superman.

I just finished re-reading "All Star Superman" and, well, I'm sorry.

My vote has to be for Superman. Goku may have the speed and strength, but I feel that with Superman's intellect and his powerset I'd have to give it to him.

PLUS how can you hate Superman? Then again I've always liked a character that is, for all intensive purposes, just pure good. I mean, yeah, he could easily enslave us all and rule us with an iron fist, but instead he chooses to save us each and every time. So, in that respect, he and Goku are similar. I still feel Goku is A BIT OF A DICK for how he decided to go off and train with Ubuu at the end of Z.

Sorry. Unfiltered opinion. Feel free to flame if you please, but I just had to put in my 2 cents.
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  #57  
Old 05-15-2010, 02:07 AM
johntiger
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Exclamation they are the same

OK i have the thread and ready to input. Through the history of superman, the powers and ablities have changed so much. There is just no same superman from one era to another era. If you take the very first superman and had the same powers and grew with him it would be better.

Goku well as you can see through out the BD series, he is growing with the powers he has and learning new stuff. Goku learns from mistakes and comes back stronger to beat the bad guys.



Over all: with superman's ever changing powers and all that. there is 3 things that is stay the same.

1 he can fly
2 strong
3 weak against kryptomite.


So if we take the very 1st superman and do the same thing like goku did (train, train, and have fun) they would be pretty much the same.


goku can fly and is strong. goku weakness would be his friends getting hurt or killed.

How some of the guys on anime tv said about some animes, that there is no growth of the main toon. you can take this to superman. superman has no growth. when he is fighting a strong dude its like bam superman has some sort of new power or move to stop him.
its like how the deck did he get that power from?

so my thoughts on it.

take the very 1st superman and stage him like goku did threw the series of DB and we will have the same person. so it will be a tie. this fight will last for years.
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  #58  
Old 01-15-2012, 04:55 PM
weihan
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Son Gokou has used his Instant Transmission (Teleportation) during battle in more than one occassion. During the Cell Arc. He used the teleportation skill to save the world from being destroyed when cell tried to self destruct. He also used it while fighting Janemba. There are more situations where Gokou used the teleport skill both offensively and defensively. Basically he needs to be in physical contact with whatever he wishes to bring along during teleportation. He does not need their permission or anything before teleporting. One more thing Gokou isn't all about magic. He also has super human strength and has dramatically increased it from intense training and hard work. The power blasts are compressed energy. So basically there isn't that much magic with Gokou. The only thing you could probably call magic is when he shifts from super saiyan 1-4 and becomes insanely powerful. Also saiyans can breath in outer space. Freeza just bluffed Gokou to put fear. In the original manga Gokou flew from planet Namec to Planet Yardrat where he stayed for a year and learned how to do instant transmission (teleport). Basically as shown in the Brolly Arc and the scenes of Gokou's father battling Freeza before the planet Vegeta was destroyed. Saiyans are capable of breathing, flying and combat in outer space. Gokou since he has never tried in the anime might not be aware of this. Gokou may seem naive in a lot of things but he ain't dumb. Especially during battles. That's the one thing he's so good at. He always fights with a plan/strategy in mind.

Last edited by weihan : 01-15-2012 at 05:00 PM.
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