Episode 130: Agnostics Suck! [Discussion]

[chrissmith_156]

Originally Posted by loug002

The problem I have with people who have a problem with this is they don't let their imagination have some fun, and allow themselves to simply believe in something. I was like that, and I hated myself for it. So I let myself become Peter Pan again in a sense.

Woah! I'm sorry to hear you hated yourself.

But this is a bit of a false dichotomy you've set up here. Make believe, imagination and creativity are great fun. I'm a huge scifi nerd for example

But these things are seperate from beliefs / knowledge. Normal healthy adults can and should differentiate between fantasy and reality...

Originally Posted by loug002

I disagree. Religion has been around forever. It wasn't until recently that atheism became 'mainstream'. And to me, it's like the child who becomes an adult too fast. And it's really quite sad.

I'm sorry but Religion was not around forever. Somebody had to make it up and before that everyone was atheist. How can you have a belief in something not yet contrived?

Originally Posted by loug002

And that's one thing that bothers me about atheism..they've got a worse inferiority complex than Christians.

This conversation will go nowhere. This is my last post in this thread.

What's with the personal attacks? We are just sharing different points of view - I was actually enjoying our discourse. I just like to examine why people believe what they believe. You know neither of us needs to change our mind for the conversation to "go somewhere"

edit:

ps. If anything I have a superiority complex... but I don't think that's caused by or causes my atheism!

[loug002]

<<redacted>>

[chrissmith_156]

Originally Posted by loug002

I disagree, at least with separate. Imagination typically denotes an open mind, which means that you're going to be more open to others beliefs.

I'm open to the idea I might be wrong. Are you?

Originally Posted by loug002

From own personal experience, both Christians and atheists have been militant to other people, and each other.

Have you thought that since these traits are common on both sides - perhaps they have nothing do with wordviews and more to do with being human?

Originally Posted by loug002

Oh, I'm sorry, did I say "Chris" or whatever your name is has an inferiority complex? or did I say "atheists"?

Let me guess - I'm the exception that proves the rule?

Originally Posted by loug002

Seriously, last post. Thinking of deleting my Revision account to be honest.

<slow motion>Nooooooooooooooooooo</slow motion>

[loug002]

[quote]

Originally Posted by chrissmith_156

I'm open to the idea I might be wrong. Are you?

AH-HA! But I've never claimed to be right. My only claim is "this is what I believe. It's good enough for me." I've never claimed, like oh-so-many Christians, and atheists, that my way is the only way.

Have you thought that since these traits are common on both sides - perhaps they have nothing do with wordviews and more to do with being human?

Nope, because it's about worldview. They're worldview has to be the only right one.

Let me guess - I'm the exception that proves the rule?

You're an exception to something alright...

[chrissmith_156]

Originally Posted by loug002

AH-HA! But I've never claimed to be right. My only claim is "this is what I believe. It's good enough for me." I've never claimed, like oh-so-many Christians, and atheists, that my way is the only way.

If your happy believing that despite by your own admission, not even knowing why you believe it then thats great for you. Was only asking, no need to be so angry about it.

Yep Christianity by its very nature is like that. One God, one salvation, one truth, one way to heaven or you are quite literally damned.

But you are aware that there is no doctrine of atheism, right? It's just a lack of theism.

Originally Posted by loug002

You're an exception to something alright...

Thank you

[loug002]

But you are aware that there is no doctrine of atheism, right? It's just a lack of theism.

The belief or disbelief in a god or gods sounds like a doctrine to me.

Thank you

wasn't meant to be a compliment.

[chrissmith_156]

Originally Posted by loug002

The belief or disbelief in a god or gods sounds like a doctrine to me.

If not believing in god is a doctrine then baldness is a hair color and not playing football is a sport

Originally Posted by loug002

wasn't meant to be a compliment.

I accept your apology.

[zeo]

Originally Posted by chrissmith_156

But you are aware that there is no doctrine of atheism, right? It's just a lack of theism.

Depends, there is militant atheism, who like religious zealots actively try to enforce their belief on others, and there are many atheist books on the subject matter.

We are however not born atheists... Essentially, the belief that there is no deity is still a belief! So before any beliefs were founded means we simply started with no opinion at all.

[loug002]

Originally Posted by zeo

So before any beliefs were founded means we simply started with no opinion at all.

I still disagree with that. I don't think the word opinion is right. I would say that humanity started without knowledge, or were agnostic then we became gnostic, even if we were the ones that started the knowledge.

That knowledge evolved and parts of it branched off.

I do agree that a disbelief in god/goddess is still a belief though.

[chrissmith_156]

Originally Posted by zeo

We are however not born atheists... Essentially, the belief that there is no deity is still a belief! So before any beliefs were founded means we simply started with no opinion at all.

Yes we are born implicit atheists because we are not yet introduced to any particular brand of theism to embrace.

Now as we grow older and become exposed to different religions, for each one we can either:

A) Accept and believe in the existence of a particular deity.
B) Be unconvinced of said deity and have no reason to positively believe.
Or
C) Outright deny. i.e. explicitly disbelieve in a particular god.

I take the B stance for most religions. Most theists would take the C stance for all gods but their own of course!

It's the C kind that you are railing against here. But very few atheists take this stance accross the board. So its a straw man argument.

There are countless gods that noone on this board believes in. And there are potentially infinite possible gods yet to be imagined and embraced / denied.

Lack of belief is not a belief. Being healthy is not a disease and not collecting stamps isn't a hobby