" The get go home show you sponsored by jangled. Hey and welcome to the episode six of the GigaOM show I'm home and I'm -- And this week we have some bad news. I'll refrain joy -- far. A hiking trip in -- injured herself so I did I hurt myself a bit okay say she's not into words are together this week very a lot of it is just a few stitches -- coming up right next you meet -- good for the headlines."

" I think so I think says that they're not only will go into it so we'll start at like number five it's raining money in this hot hot August there. It is here also apparently so Jack -- spice works wisdom. WIS dot DM. Local space and -- all announced a VC funding Kook that's a lot that's a lot of money so it's really kind of interesting because normally. In August soared in the summer VC funding slows down -- partners are going on their vacations. Not sticking around for the partner meeting to approve the funding decisions something's gone -- summer people are doing deals."

" We have maybe a lot of conferences this year there's of the Soledad. And in September or so people want to get. You know and funding are the way beforehand and then. Kind of be hit in the conference traded yeah. Maybe at the techcrunch trying me you have. Future are very Babson then you have to Lou and right so on and so forth so so it is a sign that the bubble isn't quite. First thing art isn't click on hand there are still. Investors were encouraged Gerald ended Stoddard is just getting started I don't think so I think you're gonna see actually more actor redeemed NBC he's based in coming months."

" Right and when I actually like to learn more about his not so much who's closing funding by some trips to see where valuations are heading heading up for heading down so anybody has any using information about. These companies are not -- lost annually fearless female of the emails to go home at Revision 3 dot -- the -- info you know but the valuations for these round."

" Us throughout the number four pic line this this three kiss my -- mom gets acquired -- James. To your point you know as the funding is coming but there exists on so -- mom -- Social network focused entirely New York and moms who basically take care of kids in you know. There -- issues and until May need -- work and it's not great it's less than a year over by the calorie passionate community right. And just to disclose they're -- my investors for the Diego. Company are also investors in in my as mom that's true ventures. But you know it shows that he nearly did is non traditional technology companies which are looking to me. Technology acquisitions like that and he lost their -- was acquired by CBS and you know more recently Cavuto who was acquired by. Harsh I think and then you have BB central buying this so I think you're going to see this trend can't you read it. Nontraditional acquires a -- find some of these smaller ripped Kool operation right."

" And -- my Islam also did something smart they'll only raise a small amount of money which gave them the flexibility to it to flip better -- an undisclosed price but probably much lower than they -- Being able to sell for had they taken a big VC around right -- change UC some of the women focused companies blowing out like glam dot com with major round of funding. And any of other companies doing smaller. Smaller insurance singles all of this -- I saw a headline number three. -- media here and they bought photo log Ford -- eighty million dollars in cash and stock deal."

" Nothing small about that. Virtually any interest in the rug this company for a -- is that it's a non US phenomenon a process to other parts of Latin America. Spain's southern Europe. It's to let people didn't even pay any attention to them I would -- and -- Q4 times. But they also raised to a marginal -- money and this is a -- go to exit for them to critics -- right click and it's not like -- a bucket and psychiatrist 250 million dollars. Quarter -- is just like a simple for a community. And I think in the simplicity of fact. You know community is right why it's so popular people just cannot -- Maybe one for a graph from Dave from their mobile phones and their French can comment on it and I think that's very attractive sometimes less is more."

" Right there's also a reminder to start -- that they shouldn't focus on just an American market because as a lot more going on outside the borders against the planet is maybe he is very -- So moving along -- a plant that's actually shrinking a bit yeah there's trouble afoot at EarthLink."

" I know we know I've. It was one of those. Things interest like expected for a very long time right the company had too many things going on they had. -- Muni Wi-Fi and they had. You know. They have the UMB you know and then there own core business which is dial up. You know interactions I mean that's going away is dialing up so you know -- out in a bit of a tough situation right. So our king you know laid off 900 people that's what people can suck it up on the news today -- you know it's a key if they really have to -- back on some of these future growth initiatives like. Check municipal wireless and -- Arnold are kind of stuff do is a big waste of money. You -- say that right now we do we really can see what happens to them. -- It is a tough situation for the company you know hard do you Contra balance -- And your business reality and I think that's -- I think he's trying to do."

" They're remnant of the web on another to try to go too big too fast -- AOL and didn't really have a good solid strategy so they need to refocus -- shake up that the shake up that they're going through now is this kind of they're growing pains me to refocus on their on the strength. -- there we."

" Mrs. well let's see if they've lived if they can make it work right right our number 15 like for this three kids. -- revised gateway apple ruins the PC ball pretty. I mean you should come to think about it I think. This has proved -- bigger doesn't mean better right all the big PC companies which were dead in the early nineties you know. Are are like basically. You've gone went away images. There's two major US PC companies left. And SAP C I'm talking Barbara internal company GMBHP. And Dell and HP works because. They have printers and dad because to have the business market. From gateway as a company used to be a great consumer computer -- how old spotted -- email and that he's somewhere down the line. Then he lost the focus and basically started doing many different things and it can truly payout. -- out for them and Acer on the other hand has been very successful. In beating me -- partners regulate. The Acer Ferrari laptops and you know -- huge in Europe and Asia idea of people don't know but -- leg in India and Aaron back -- and move. All my friends that -- laptops right. -- and having to visit London. So many of the supporters are mad are using these sort of paradox that so it's it's it's actually a pretty strong Bryant won't rely. So I think this approached him in a good position to be a player in the US with the game career grand scheme against -- we are also you know. Trying to build their own -- infrastructure and I think this is actually not such a bad idea to bargain price Fraser yes 710 million dollar they -- Proud you know I'm gonna miss gave fair though you know is one of the few companies that order -- Back when I was young wave back then yeah -- happened. But we would be right back through our guests from the read and read this exciting conversation -- Barbara radner and just think you've. Hello and welcome back to the GigaOM show I'm supposed. And we are talking very bad undertakes -- that as we like to call it lies damn lies and then manage Linux. We have two special guest today we have been intentional from. Paid twice and Conrad fragment from corn cast and they wouldn't be discussing about an addiction what needs to be done to me. Bad analytics measurement more realistic and more truthful and join us is gonna kick off the interior."

" And thanks for joining us -- and there really good to have you with us so you you'll see in the web community of people are just actually frustrated with web analytics. And the lack of consistency of terminology and that's the mysteries of the metrics pray. What's what's. Keeping -- and I finally addressing some of these issues coming out good standard that people can use across the board that help us as consumers as publishers do with these issues."

" Leo look let's start -- talking about the problems because they think there's two distinct problems. I think it's where they have both comrade my on the show because report addressing the two different problems. The first one is is that. Web analytics and talk about audience measurement not specifically the site centric data. But in terms of audience measurement been around since the mid ninety's. I used to is that they have a lot. Previous jobs and and one of things that that I have problems with is that the data is relatively thin. In terms of making business decisions based on on the data. That the the data that's come out from from companies like comps were like Nielsen. It's an Internet currency and you created back in ninety's is an independent source that you could use to verify the amount of traffic -- coming to your site. Lifting the a lot of people don't know those of people in jobs like I had in previous positions. Use that data to try and make decisions you know companies should go with in terms of my acquisition strategy here you know how should -- be. Changing my plans based on what's happening in the competitive set. To make this kind decision in need a much more robust sample than what's being currently offered by the audience measurement. Companies so the other problem is the dot collect data points rather than its its -- and it's the data points but the problem with what that is is actually comes back to the size of the sample. What we're talking about ten million Internet users -- lasted until wise and we have that robust sample. To provide the data set -- not you know just a couple 100000 let's for the millions sites then and very very granular data. Data that's. Cost probable by the month we can even the day. And even down to a search term."

" We actually combine. The two different approaches to web -- so the sample based approach is being used for decades in measuring media if you think back to have radio and television. We brought costs media. Measurement and delivery -- different things she had set taught me -- took a sample of people observed what television shows they watch extrapolate about the population. One of the challenges that bill touched upon without approaches when the sample size is small. Relatives of the number of media choices the accuracy. Of those analyst estimates the margins can be very want. That's especially true when you have a highly fragmented media like the Internet. And lost pals a very useful in terms of offering the breadth of disability. And direction -- comparisons and competitive intelligence. And not necessarily very good at resolving the precisely tell exactly how many people are consuming a particular piece of media be a webpage or individual video and wherever we deliver content to -- browser. Or send out a video stream it creates a record is delivered individually. And those sub blocks of the -- that publishes a -- for a long time to compare themselves with the analysis and data that's available when they diverged. Substantially. That's very frustrating the publishers. I think."

" A lot of people don't want so the solution is like cures to work. Because it creates the ambiguity is that these and a lot of people who get a rated triple a charging. For advertisements or whatever it is and and I can -- it is a CDs issue around that I think. It's not give them not picking on -- or need is an award ever -- the data is just not accurate like I mean the numbers. Even even on corn cast for instance in numbers are insured fund Comcast. KJL my profile and the numbers -- you -- really. Are two entirely different things the numbers we see -- and stacks controversy is -- it. Though they're entirely different things today is a bit of a bigger issue involved here in nineteen. There's so there must commute to -- first because the ambiguity actually. Is is being perpetrated because it benefits cause you know publisher and advertising agencies nobody asked you. You know stand up and take. You know responsibility."

" So I think. You know in the short term ambiguity might benefit certain publishers but in the long term transparency is is inevitable. In the industry equality of states -- national we'll get -- and your second point the consistency of measurements we'll get back to. You know one of the issues today is the different packages will report different things they'll they'll use the same terminology domain -- and taught different things sometimes and people say. Visitors -- mean visits sometimes they mean. That cookies first party or third party sometimes they mean some other measure of the number of people that actually visit the -- consistency could great confusion is an industry we have to work towards. So what's consistency."

" I ever met last week I think the web analytics association. Put out of a set of twenty something -- standardized definitions for these terms do you feel like that. Movement wolf will have any impact on this of this. I need to look to standardized. Terms and what they mean between companies."

" Yeah I think he will let you know there's this -- a set of definitions from the WM IA is another set of definitions and having produced by the ID. And of one of the issues of course he got lots of different industry bodies that are interested in that particular members. Own interests putting out different standards but I think the moral of this disgust and the more we drive towards it ultimately. The more than. Different vendors are able to support a number of those measures so -- least people can look for consistency when they know -- looking at a particular metric they -- directly compatible with another metric. When we try to do that as well one of the things I suggest they feel size out of the difference in terms of the number of page views the reported -- there's asymmetric that is it is a very consistent -- definition regardless of the fact that it that it that it may be set by. Time on site and other metrics to deal with without -- with some. New delivery technologies. How does not."

" And ethical standards of our point five to 30%. Under reporting on what podcast okay that's interesting we should look at correct look at whether its highest placed on the on the patient things look great. Billion big question you know I have for you is that I've been using it quite student for a long time and actually to an interest in bridge to look at. You know in a more holistic Kuwait he would read the -- is what people are doing when -- does that it wise. Approach working in new distributor bad war really you have. Where gates and embeds and all those kind of things does that work on do we need a new kind of measurement techniques for those as well."

" Well it's it's I believe the best thing out there for kind of intelligence today. Given the large sample allows to get a lot of that rationalizations. Conrad mentioned. But you do bring up a good point the web is constantly changing RSS is becoming increasingly more important Ajax is impacted. Page views. And we're constantly. Working and -- deal on our metrics the metrics that we're going to be offering going forward. I think you have to start the the analysis though at the very basis which is what is the draw of -- your data what your sample. And what's your methodology those two questions are -- And I think what we're going to find is that audience measurement in terms of panel is not really well suited to to tackle the long tail. That's that exists today on the web. That is going to take a much larger sample to actually get to -- of the usable pieces of data and and we have that. The other thing I'll mention is this is some have brought up and analysis that we did on what 2.0 using one of our our products called the conversion -- Is that the if you look at -- population as a whole US and population. For example the amount of users in the US are rushing gauging and two point activity is this very very small. We did a measurement of the number of people actually uploading a video to YouTube and measuring in -- less than a tenth of a percent. Those are uploading photos to Flickr -- about point 2%. So I think you know in the industry we've we've kind of got a little ahead of ourselves thinking that that this is mainstream activity. One it's not quite yet."

" I have one question for both few rich I'm sure a lot of people are questioning knowing is lake you know another piece of letter refers you know depending on Alexa. Is in Jewish TO rather pretty you guys think that and do you think there's. And but why is it that people keep relying on an access so much when it seems to be a -- to."

" Gloria elects it's a it's a free tool -- I think that there's a big part. The reliance pieces of state of itself of the people can get. They caviar with Alexis Davis is that it's not represented a set of Internet users either US or worldwide it's. Essentially. Panel that's that's gathered through people opting into a -- war. That's -- you bring a certain. Set of users now. If you're an -- in certain tax bases that that data might actually be somewhat useful but you have to take it for what it is which is a non representative set what. Internet to more users -- particularly the Alexa toolbar users are doing online."

" I think -- did a great job in terms of making some information available to have a broader community as possible. And you know -- really believe that in order to facilitate the move and spend away from traditional media TV and print to. The sort of allocation that the Internet should have. In terms of the amount of media consumption we you'll participates in. The needs to be more transparent -- him more openness I think great credit to Alexa in terms of what they've done over the past few years but those points are right there raw. There are certain issues associated with the way mistakes just collected the means of -- and direction information it's not really of sufficient accuracy drugs currency. And just helping people less appetizing."

" For -- BC's continue to use it as a measurement tool. Now -- is there a better way of doing this is there a credit you know should there be an open source rear of doing analytics says -- heard initially suggested -- can be -- And you know all be thinking along those lines if you have any suggestions maybe he can I'll get togethers I start right to -- and maybe you could actually happen."

" In a setting we have open source without the people gonna opt in to be. To be unveiling their data to everyone else in terms of where they live in the traffic from the demographics he's like a -- for the visitors so. That's where the open source doesn't quite work in the competitive intelligence -- with the number one. Site right now. MySpace something that we what has become a single domain assuming we announced back in July. Last year when when MySpace had -- had surpassed Yahoo! the main demand of Yahoo! in terms of being the number -- number one blog."

" That's a really good question the guy that's have a look at the -- what you pretty close I think it's -- pretty close I think again you know what's the number one. Sign it also depends upon the metrics that the most appropriate and different metrics offer different value. So that the -- under the circumstances and sometimes it'll be gaps that number of people that can be reached any given time period for trying to united trying to advertise a movie. And the on the Thursday before the movie comes out other times you'll be the opportunity to reach people repeatedly and therefore the cumulative time on site. My the most appropriate as well you know we really believe that it it there isn't there isn't a single. Metric does most of the panacea to solving this problem is about having a combination metric fish hopefully. Consistent across vendors the blue label people to find the information they won't ultimately understand into the way that's meaningful for them. Great thanks guys thank you."

" Thanks. And we'll be coming right back with some more of your comments. Welcome back we just finished speaking to our web analytics guys -- what you think about that time."

" You know they're being very kind and polite. I I have to say I think this whole industry. Just needs to be taken by this scarf -- Shaken up because it is so much. You know I hate to use the word phone -- is being thrown around as far as -- our Linux is concerned. Not just you know -- it's like -- cross the -- It's in everybody's best interest not to talk about -- threat and there's you know it's in everybody's best interest -- people who are actually making money. To be ambiguous. And not be clear barked of that stacks and I think would these two gentlemen and their companies are doing is nice. But it means we need to do a lot more to BCD get the real sense self. What's going on on the -- Because if you come to think about it that is one medium which -- to implement. -- you can actually measure everything. And that is a place where we have the maximum amount of confusion right so I think the you've ever analytics industry is. Is it needs a little bit you know completely not -- Britain where they react and you know we need a complete make over and we need to get together on this and people really need to get serious about this because there's a lot of money diving on it it's not just like -- you know a couple of billion dollars there's going to be. Tens of billions of dollars in advertising and online revenues of this house to. Be addressed. Right away and I more money -- may have fled and -- know what contrasting had quite -- doing on the right track right leg in their just lead get system right approach for. Lot more needs killing unborn realizes more -- and Lorena Levys he's keeping their deliberate -- years of art interesting in this and Alex but fewer elect says and -- com. Absolutely I think you know who -- Yahoo! Microsoft deal on need to get together. They need to put together very cool bars indicate data from their tool bars. And Porter didn't in -- we know in an open database we have people who can actually. Use second low rent a privacy issues from there but you know just what privacy issues and you can always tell how many people are really being. A specific site -- talk removing all the personally -- actually uniting their needs to be a lot more. She is thinking about us right. It's only if you episode my pet -- so don't give me started I heard you ought to be --"

" So what happens to -- viewer emails that we've done this week nice and part of the fight the -- have heard of -- of the show so we have an email -- from Stephen W from Chicago. He says I love the show the only problem is that I think it's too short I watched the show every Friday at work why build my web say it's. I've actually loved every guess you've had on and I just wish it would dig deeper. Good point. So the point we've loved the guess that we've had -- we've tried to bring up important issues at the viewers that we think the viewers of the incident and points that we're -- as people involved technology. But we do have time limitations in that we want everybody happy we want you wanting more from the show and it's. Kicking your curiosity -- you going try to educate yourself on this as well in addition to what we're able to provide."

" I absolutely -- he doesn't make a good point featured. You know since there is no time limitation be. Definitely try and do deeper into music you know in the future you know sometimes they guess have a hard time. You know limitations of the campaign forced him to stay for longer right."

" But in Austin tell us who would be your dream -- where some of the issues that you like for us to cover what's. What's been getting your start up -- down these days you -- obviously -- home I revision3.com."

" Great and we have another great email from Richard so the aircraft carrier coffee table are. I suggest you get something less of cruised to RC through. Why hide everybody's -- you can look at my feet and I have. But you do have a point I hate that people see -- that are able though billion army convoy and an argument so what can I say bird could sedation and Richard. Hey you know keep -- common and you know we'll be back next week -- More great stuff and hopefully you know more of your letters -- events."

" I'm home. And I enjoy fried."

" Support for the -- got home she -- he's provided by jangled."

" The get go home show you sponsored by jangled. Hey and welcome to the episode six of the GigaOM show I'm home and I'm -- And this week we have some bad news. I'll refrain joy -- far. A hiking trip in -- injured herself so I did I hurt myself a bit okay say she's not into words are together this week very a lot of it is just a few stitches -- coming up right next you meet -- good for the headlines."

" I think so I think says that they're not only will go into it so we'll start at like number five it's raining money in this hot hot August there. It is here also apparently so Jack -- spice works wisdom. WIS dot DM. Local space and -- all announced a VC funding Kook that's a lot that's a lot of money so it's really kind of interesting because normally. In August soared in the summer VC funding slows down -- partners are going on their vacations. Not sticking around for the partner meeting to approve the funding decisions something's gone -- summer people are doing deals."

" We have maybe a lot of conferences this year there's of the Soledad. And in September or so people want to get. You know and funding are the way beforehand and then. Kind of be hit in the conference traded yeah. Maybe at the techcrunch trying me you have. Future are very Babson then you have to Lou and right so on and so forth so so it is a sign that the bubble isn't quite. First thing art isn't click on hand there are still. Investors were encouraged Gerald ended Stoddard is just getting started I don't think so I think you're gonna see actually more actor redeemed NBC he's based in coming months."

" Right and when I actually like to learn more about his not so much who's closing funding by some trips to see where valuations are heading heading up for heading down so anybody has any using information about. These companies are not -- lost annually fearless female of the emails to go home at Revision 3 dot -- the -- info you know but the valuations for these round."

" Us throughout the number four pic line this this three kiss my -- mom gets acquired -- James. To your point you know as the funding is coming but there exists on so -- mom -- Social network focused entirely New York and moms who basically take care of kids in you know. There -- issues and until May need -- work and it's not great it's less than a year over by the calorie passionate community right. And just to disclose they're -- my investors for the Diego. Company are also investors in in my as mom that's true ventures. But you know it shows that he nearly did is non traditional technology companies which are looking to me. Technology acquisitions like that and he lost their -- was acquired by CBS and you know more recently Cavuto who was acquired by. Harsh I think and then you have BB central buying this so I think you're going to see this trend can't you read it. Nontraditional acquires a -- find some of these smaller ripped Kool operation right."

" And -- my Islam also did something smart they'll only raise a small amount of money which gave them the flexibility to it to flip better -- an undisclosed price but probably much lower than they -- Being able to sell for had they taken a big VC around right -- change UC some of the women focused companies blowing out like glam dot com with major round of funding. And any of other companies doing smaller. Smaller insurance singles all of this -- I saw a headline number three. -- media here and they bought photo log Ford -- eighty million dollars in cash and stock deal."

" Nothing small about that. Virtually any interest in the rug this company for a -- is that it's a non US phenomenon a process to other parts of Latin America. Spain's southern Europe. It's to let people didn't even pay any attention to them I would -- and -- Q4 times. But they also raised to a marginal -- money and this is a -- go to exit for them to critics -- right click and it's not like -- a bucket and psychiatrist 250 million dollars. Quarter -- is just like a simple for a community. And I think in the simplicity of fact. You know community is right why it's so popular people just cannot -- Maybe one for a graph from Dave from their mobile phones and their French can comment on it and I think that's very attractive sometimes less is more."

" Right there's also a reminder to start -- that they shouldn't focus on just an American market because as a lot more going on outside the borders against the planet is maybe he is very -- So moving along -- a plant that's actually shrinking a bit yeah there's trouble afoot at EarthLink."

" I know we know I've. It was one of those. Things interest like expected for a very long time right the company had too many things going on they had. -- Muni Wi-Fi and they had. You know. They have the UMB you know and then there own core business which is dial up. You know interactions I mean that's going away is dialing up so you know -- out in a bit of a tough situation right. So our king you know laid off 900 people that's what people can suck it up on the news today -- you know it's a key if they really have to -- back on some of these future growth initiatives like. Check municipal wireless and -- Arnold are kind of stuff do is a big waste of money. You -- say that right now we do we really can see what happens to them. -- It is a tough situation for the company you know hard do you Contra balance -- And your business reality and I think that's -- I think he's trying to do."

" They're remnant of the web on another to try to go too big too fast -- AOL and didn't really have a good solid strategy so they need to refocus -- shake up that the shake up that they're going through now is this kind of they're growing pains me to refocus on their on the strength. -- there we."

" Mrs. well let's see if they've lived if they can make it work right right our number 15 like for this three kids. -- revised gateway apple ruins the PC ball pretty. I mean you should come to think about it I think. This has proved -- bigger doesn't mean better right all the big PC companies which were dead in the early nineties you know. Are are like basically. You've gone went away images. There's two major US PC companies left. And SAP C I'm talking Barbara internal company GMBHP. And Dell and HP works because. They have printers and dad because to have the business market. From gateway as a company used to be a great consumer computer -- how old spotted -- email and that he's somewhere down the line. Then he lost the focus and basically started doing many different things and it can truly payout. -- out for them and Acer on the other hand has been very successful. In beating me -- partners regulate. The Acer Ferrari laptops and you know -- huge in Europe and Asia idea of people don't know but -- leg in India and Aaron back -- and move. All my friends that -- laptops right. -- and having to visit London. So many of the supporters are mad are using these sort of paradox that so it's it's it's actually a pretty strong Bryant won't rely. So I think this approached him in a good position to be a player in the US with the game career grand scheme against -- we are also you know. Trying to build their own -- infrastructure and I think this is actually not such a bad idea to bargain price Fraser yes 710 million dollar they -- Proud you know I'm gonna miss gave fair though you know is one of the few companies that order -- Back when I was young wave back then yeah -- happened. But we would be right back through our guests from the read and read this exciting conversation -- Barbara radner and just think you've. Hello and welcome back to the GigaOM show I'm supposed. And we are talking very bad undertakes -- that as we like to call it lies damn lies and then manage Linux. We have two special guest today we have been intentional from. Paid twice and Conrad fragment from corn cast and they wouldn't be discussing about an addiction what needs to be done to me. Bad analytics measurement more realistic and more truthful and join us is gonna kick off the interior."

" And thanks for joining us -- and there really good to have you with us so you you'll see in the web community of people are just actually frustrated with web analytics. And the lack of consistency of terminology and that's the mysteries of the metrics pray. What's what's. Keeping -- and I finally addressing some of these issues coming out good standard that people can use across the board that help us as consumers as publishers do with these issues."

" Leo look let's start -- talking about the problems because they think there's two distinct problems. I think it's where they have both comrade my on the show because report addressing the two different problems. The first one is is that. Web analytics and talk about audience measurement not specifically the site centric data. But in terms of audience measurement been around since the mid ninety's. I used to is that they have a lot. Previous jobs and and one of things that that I have problems with is that the data is relatively thin. In terms of making business decisions based on on the data. That the the data that's come out from from companies like comps were like Nielsen. It's an Internet currency and you created back in ninety's is an independent source that you could use to verify the amount of traffic -- coming to your site. Lifting the a lot of people don't know those of people in jobs like I had in previous positions. Use that data to try and make decisions you know companies should go with in terms of my acquisition strategy here you know how should -- be. Changing my plans based on what's happening in the competitive set. To make this kind decision in need a much more robust sample than what's being currently offered by the audience measurement. Companies so the other problem is the dot collect data points rather than its its -- and it's the data points but the problem with what that is is actually comes back to the size of the sample. What we're talking about ten million Internet users -- lasted until wise and we have that robust sample. To provide the data set -- not you know just a couple 100000 let's for the millions sites then and very very granular data. Data that's. Cost probable by the month we can even the day. And even down to a search term."

" We actually combine. The two different approaches to web -- so the sample based approach is being used for decades in measuring media if you think back to have radio and television. We brought costs media. Measurement and delivery -- different things she had set taught me -- took a sample of people observed what television shows they watch extrapolate about the population. One of the challenges that bill touched upon without approaches when the sample size is small. Relatives of the number of media choices the accuracy. Of those analyst estimates the margins can be very want. That's especially true when you have a highly fragmented media like the Internet. And lost pals a very useful in terms of offering the breadth of disability. And direction -- comparisons and competitive intelligence. And not necessarily very good at resolving the precisely tell exactly how many people are consuming a particular piece of media be a webpage or individual video and wherever we deliver content to -- browser. Or send out a video stream it creates a record is delivered individually. And those sub blocks of the -- that publishes a -- for a long time to compare themselves with the analysis and data that's available when they diverged. Substantially. That's very frustrating the publishers. I think."

" A lot of people don't want so the solution is like cures to work. Because it creates the ambiguity is that these and a lot of people who get a rated triple a charging. For advertisements or whatever it is and and I can -- it is a CDs issue around that I think. It's not give them not picking on -- or need is an award ever -- the data is just not accurate like I mean the numbers. Even even on corn cast for instance in numbers are insured fund Comcast. KJL my profile and the numbers -- you -- really. Are two entirely different things the numbers we see -- and stacks controversy is -- it. Though they're entirely different things today is a bit of a bigger issue involved here in nineteen. There's so there must commute to -- first because the ambiguity actually. Is is being perpetrated because it benefits cause you know publisher and advertising agencies nobody asked you. You know stand up and take. You know responsibility."

" So I think. You know in the short term ambiguity might benefit certain publishers but in the long term transparency is is inevitable. In the industry equality of states -- national we'll get -- and your second point the consistency of measurements we'll get back to. You know one of the issues today is the different packages will report different things they'll they'll use the same terminology domain -- and taught different things sometimes and people say. Visitors -- mean visits sometimes they mean. That cookies first party or third party sometimes they mean some other measure of the number of people that actually visit the -- consistency could great confusion is an industry we have to work towards. So what's consistency."

" I ever met last week I think the web analytics association. Put out of a set of twenty something -- standardized definitions for these terms do you feel like that. Movement wolf will have any impact on this of this. I need to look to standardized. Terms and what they mean between companies."

" Yeah I think he will let you know there's this -- a set of definitions from the WM IA is another set of definitions and having produced by the ID. And of one of the issues of course he got lots of different industry bodies that are interested in that particular members. Own interests putting out different standards but I think the moral of this disgust and the more we drive towards it ultimately. The more than. Different vendors are able to support a number of those measures so -- least people can look for consistency when they know -- looking at a particular metric they -- directly compatible with another metric. When we try to do that as well one of the things I suggest they feel size out of the difference in terms of the number of page views the reported -- there's asymmetric that is it is a very consistent -- definition regardless of the fact that it that it that it may be set by. Time on site and other metrics to deal with without -- with some. New delivery technologies. How does not."

" And ethical standards of our point five to 30%. Under reporting on what podcast okay that's interesting we should look at correct look at whether its highest placed on the on the patient things look great. Billion big question you know I have for you is that I've been using it quite student for a long time and actually to an interest in bridge to look at. You know in a more holistic Kuwait he would read the -- is what people are doing when -- does that it wise. Approach working in new distributor bad war really you have. Where gates and embeds and all those kind of things does that work on do we need a new kind of measurement techniques for those as well."

" Well it's it's I believe the best thing out there for kind of intelligence today. Given the large sample allows to get a lot of that rationalizations. Conrad mentioned. But you do bring up a good point the web is constantly changing RSS is becoming increasingly more important Ajax is impacted. Page views. And we're constantly. Working and -- deal on our metrics the metrics that we're going to be offering going forward. I think you have to start the the analysis though at the very basis which is what is the draw of -- your data what your sample. And what's your methodology those two questions are -- And I think what we're going to find is that audience measurement in terms of panel is not really well suited to to tackle the long tail. That's that exists today on the web. That is going to take a much larger sample to actually get to -- of the usable pieces of data and and we have that. The other thing I'll mention is this is some have brought up and analysis that we did on what 2.0 using one of our our products called the conversion -- Is that the if you look at -- population as a whole US and population. For example the amount of users in the US are rushing gauging and two point activity is this very very small. We did a measurement of the number of people actually uploading a video to YouTube and measuring in -- less than a tenth of a percent. Those are uploading photos to Flickr -- about point 2%. So I think you know in the industry we've we've kind of got a little ahead of ourselves thinking that that this is mainstream activity. One it's not quite yet."

" I have one question for both few rich I'm sure a lot of people are questioning knowing is lake you know another piece of letter refers you know depending on Alexa. Is in Jewish TO rather pretty you guys think that and do you think there's. And but why is it that people keep relying on an access so much when it seems to be a -- to."

" Gloria elects it's a it's a free tool -- I think that there's a big part. The reliance pieces of state of itself of the people can get. They caviar with Alexis Davis is that it's not represented a set of Internet users either US or worldwide it's. Essentially. Panel that's that's gathered through people opting into a -- war. That's -- you bring a certain. Set of users now. If you're an -- in certain tax bases that that data might actually be somewhat useful but you have to take it for what it is which is a non representative set what. Internet to more users -- particularly the Alexa toolbar users are doing online."

" I think -- did a great job in terms of making some information available to have a broader community as possible. And you know -- really believe that in order to facilitate the move and spend away from traditional media TV and print to. The sort of allocation that the Internet should have. In terms of the amount of media consumption we you'll participates in. The needs to be more transparent -- him more openness I think great credit to Alexa in terms of what they've done over the past few years but those points are right there raw. There are certain issues associated with the way mistakes just collected the means of -- and direction information it's not really of sufficient accuracy drugs currency. And just helping people less appetizing."

" For -- BC's continue to use it as a measurement tool. Now -- is there a better way of doing this is there a credit you know should there be an open source rear of doing analytics says -- heard initially suggested -- can be -- And you know all be thinking along those lines if you have any suggestions maybe he can I'll get togethers I start right to -- and maybe you could actually happen."

" In a setting we have open source without the people gonna opt in to be. To be unveiling their data to everyone else in terms of where they live in the traffic from the demographics he's like a -- for the visitors so. That's where the open source doesn't quite work in the competitive intelligence -- with the number one. Site right now. MySpace something that we what has become a single domain assuming we announced back in July. Last year when when MySpace had -- had surpassed Yahoo! the main demand of Yahoo! in terms of being the number -- number one blog."

" That's a really good question the guy that's have a look at the -- what you pretty close I think it's -- pretty close I think again you know what's the number one. Sign it also depends upon the metrics that the most appropriate and different metrics offer different value. So that the -- under the circumstances and sometimes it'll be gaps that number of people that can be reached any given time period for trying to united trying to advertise a movie. And the on the Thursday before the movie comes out other times you'll be the opportunity to reach people repeatedly and therefore the cumulative time on site. My the most appropriate as well you know we really believe that it it there isn't there isn't a single. Metric does most of the panacea to solving this problem is about having a combination metric fish hopefully. Consistent across vendors the blue label people to find the information they won't ultimately understand into the way that's meaningful for them. Great thanks guys thank you."

" Thanks. And we'll be coming right back with some more of your comments. Welcome back we just finished speaking to our web analytics guys -- what you think about that time."

" You know they're being very kind and polite. I I have to say I think this whole industry. Just needs to be taken by this scarf -- Shaken up because it is so much. You know I hate to use the word phone -- is being thrown around as far as -- our Linux is concerned. Not just you know -- it's like -- cross the -- It's in everybody's best interest not to talk about -- threat and there's you know it's in everybody's best interest -- people who are actually making money. To be ambiguous. And not be clear barked of that stacks and I think would these two gentlemen and their companies are doing is nice. But it means we need to do a lot more to BCD get the real sense self. What's going on on the -- Because if you come to think about it that is one medium which -- to implement. -- you can actually measure everything. And that is a place where we have the maximum amount of confusion right so I think the you've ever analytics industry is. Is it needs a little bit you know completely not -- Britain where they react and you know we need a complete make over and we need to get together on this and people really need to get serious about this because there's a lot of money diving on it it's not just like -- you know a couple of billion dollars there's going to be. Tens of billions of dollars in advertising and online revenues of this house to. Be addressed. Right away and I more money -- may have fled and -- know what contrasting had quite -- doing on the right track right leg in their just lead get system right approach for. Lot more needs killing unborn realizes more -- and Lorena Levys he's keeping their deliberate -- years of art interesting in this and Alex but fewer elect says and -- com. Absolutely I think you know who -- Yahoo! Microsoft deal on need to get together. They need to put together very cool bars indicate data from their tool bars. And Porter didn't in -- we know in an open database we have people who can actually. Use second low rent a privacy issues from there but you know just what privacy issues and you can always tell how many people are really being. A specific site -- talk removing all the personally -- actually uniting their needs to be a lot more. She is thinking about us right. It's only if you episode my pet -- so don't give me started I heard you ought to be --"

" So what happens to -- viewer emails that we've done this week nice and part of the fight the -- have heard of -- of the show so we have an email -- from Stephen W from Chicago. He says I love the show the only problem is that I think it's too short I watched the show every Friday at work why build my web say it's. I've actually loved every guess you've had on and I just wish it would dig deeper. Good point. So the point we've loved the guess that we've had -- we've tried to bring up important issues at the viewers that we think the viewers of the incident and points that we're -- as people involved technology. But we do have time limitations in that we want everybody happy we want you wanting more from the show and it's. Kicking your curiosity -- you going try to educate yourself on this as well in addition to what we're able to provide."

" I absolutely -- he doesn't make a good point featured. You know since there is no time limitation be. Definitely try and do deeper into music you know in the future you know sometimes they guess have a hard time. You know limitations of the campaign forced him to stay for longer right."

" But in Austin tell us who would be your dream -- where some of the issues that you like for us to cover what's. What's been getting your start up -- down these days you -- obviously -- home I revision3.com."

" Great and we have another great email from Richard so the aircraft carrier coffee table are. I suggest you get something less of cruised to RC through. Why hide everybody's -- you can look at my feet and I have. But you do have a point I hate that people see -- that are able though billion army convoy and an argument so what can I say bird could sedation and Richard. Hey you know keep -- common and you know we'll be back next week -- More great stuff and hopefully you know more of your letters -- events."

" I'm home. And I enjoy fried."

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