" Wow."

" Does that sort of -- five has brought you by square space. -- And dead space. Only the -- survive."

" Country to mainstream media's portrayal of hackers. We're not all anti social creatures. While we need to while London England patriots' wearing them for those coffee and the occasional aboard. The fact of the matter is we seek out appears both online and off. And -- at the hacker conference the epic venue to gather converters and consume copious amounts of beard. So last week Daryn and I set off to an -- for -- 2008 to speak with some of the prisoners and get an idea of what this -- is all about. Of course not everything went according to plan. More on that later. After along an uneventful flight we made it to San Diego and -- officially started we had the chance to meet up with Robin went to talk about the jasager. And where better place and it's -- you can aircraft carrier."

" Hey guys what's up were here on the USS midway and I'm finally catching up. With Robin would run -- good. I -- to have you on. Are you guys trying to -- these developer extraordinaire the man behind the pineapple if it's it's for real pineapple and I wanted to ask you some questions about -- and development stuff that's over here. -- and at port on. And I wanted to know on how did you get involved with."

" Karma that about. It'll save not liked by mail and let they watched by surveillance wild. I love they've been asking and -- guessing count anyway but what I NG you know I've watched -- On the general us which accounts. Updated as the bunch I just -- software drivers. I've usually got about them so -- let it that. I got me at play with ads that it what revenue -- cannot give it saying well can -- bring drive -- the space I think it's."

" That's. So when karma was. I come with first invented it is on the that life -- that my parents and indeed it was not updated yeah out great so we've got outdated and how did you get into the whole -- hacking scene in the first place."

" It I don't think this -- security and that kind of thing. And then. What for a web development company. On -- edit existing scared to let applications. While sort of an area that was interested in stuff to play when -- it it collects and and and it didn't songs. Wireless book but the law knots and just."

" We recommend that -- So you can work on Oscar for little lamb that I'm just -- in what may -- were some of the most difficult parts of getting yelling and whatnot that development."

" Today. Obviously the limited that in -- on the -- yet on the phone itself. That's what -- out -- And everything that both say wait shell script so scripts on the group. On there's a lot of us -- was snag in grand island's. So as I -- filing that it would not. He -- all event I'd. Lets you -- LA yeah -- have had not rails -- Gregory Apple. And look played a -- lot of experiments Eddie -- set on that. And helpful way night isn't quite been quite nice that -- the differences and -- So why that your T want to dvd security -- speakers outside Atlanta right. I think that I've been opened the -- my head that extra hugs them pickets lined up but on the phone."

" What's really the difference between. Yeah secure the way it works and somethin' that runs karma on like any -- heart medicine."

" At the moment a privilege it sad. Yeah I did at the yes they got. Is that it's a modular developments. On the phones is not school Latin compact eight hey. You can leave it lightens the way where's that remotely any PC line -- its current version -- many modules touched it. It has been built modular so mechanics on the outlook some ideas for new modules -- for it."

" So the embedded devices related at the core of it as -- posted something where you're just sitting down and actually using. -- PC using it for penetration testing some that this is really one of those things that the -- be it for a battery on it costs and inside of pineapple or. Carton of cigarettes and leave -- around some."

" Yes that I headed into view it and structural iTunes it was he sat alone is Pentax is he took steps to access point. I'd tapes in the chat. Reception. On for the next couple weeks got -- of that network through the excise tax points. I think in ulsan despair and an end a task he -- is that well of them so that I bet it no I didn't. So didn't that. It's seven issue maybe -- the -- I've to telephone you could almost disposable."

" So what we say right now thirty dollar on but what about hardware would in the future I mean on -- justice system and it's made by act on. And then the same thing with this an error of plus you now have so hopefully we can see development in the -- plus what other hardware through proceed --"

" the limitations there it will -- in that room and that's it thanks. We'll look into the guts -- look people asking about the -- we got -- but he. Buzz -- on all of those efforts it acts as a lower yeah yeah so it won't let on the news. You've gotta have via chipset again not in my life -- yet unlocked by drivers all the little else not -- titles -- hot. I'm -- yet got to make up a nice so it's not possible but it does sound work. Going down that road when there were great yeah. -- So witty kind of see this project going. Less that got plenty of ideas fall rag you modules that -- slot on oath any new hardware. Emails sent and a -- play with them. --"

" He's giving it -- liquid what's the modules late Kate so you you build in the structure just kind of like how lot. How wouldn't backtrack everybody Alley he got my does just pop in the model directory you boot up you got a DNA everything. Just shows up -- the picture of how you envision modules working with we got here and how that differentiates it from something like. Karmetasploit."

" And this if any of you saying hey this drop diving -- that you get on the tablet connected clients. The plot days that you drop them modulated and you -- is -- to do it at the module does. Ideas of golf with talking about in scripts and Wi-Fi -- there in national politics of jealousy. I'd like bill also calls through things like NASA so on and not so much you it's not easy client yup to dissect and this client -- all. The next day. And -- Britain writes the modules so much at night so the community can do little modules -- abuse and Sunday. Unpopular Mozart people credits anybody unite them behind it grow from the hopeless."

" Nice they -- telling me earlier about places some interesting ideas about actually running the Nintendo and connected to each other -- really interest."

" Yeah well. Obviously it would be really nice what you what I do is giving access to anybody adults that is connected to it paid. So if Google save -- not want this -- yes yes ago aggregate eight seconds just it and quiet mode connect -- means that the so you could -- box should -- pattern. Believe in light anyway and leave you with please Internet access. On and you just about it and it'll listings of everything."

" Nice on my on their way back on this trip got a four hour layover. And that would airport but -- I've got -- pineapple here he's got a battery pack inside of it and my idea here is I just turn him on. And connect to you is at this idea that I have WPA. That Apple and I just. Connect that and what I hope to do with the routes is -- that it's that my laptop which have connected via Bluetooth tonight cellphone the Internet. Make that the you know provided you. Or the that would anyway this is an often an interest in testing tool I'm I'm really excited about the development future we've already got a lot of people are getting active in the Oscar board that the best way to get all the again on the -- network behind --"

" Projects. Five forums yes to get fought -- Days didn't activate of the lead to a danger to all of the problem that on the exodus that extra days to -- Did you -- Jessica. Hahn's you can email me yes yes did you installed will announce that as well."

" Great Robin thanks so much are coming on and we're having a blast the -- to school at tech that's more of the craft area."

" that number 74. If you'll be passing through airport security with a battery powered Fon routers -- out of plastic pineapple yeah he's sure to taken out of your carry on bag and placed it into. Guess what exactly questioning it turns out it doesn't act like a big yellow grenade the X ray. -- the trouble to confronted by square space. Square space is publishing system for anyone looking to go to blogger put other neat website with square space drop boxes photo galleries forms and blogs are just some of the features that you just minutes without ever touching source code. They'll -- building the new live parties flash and five gaming clan site in the coming weeks to send us your ideas what to include. I've been working with them and it turns out that the death tax -- season. Anyway its two week free trial without credit artwork in the squares -- dot com check out."

" excluding aircraft are a little more -- because without saying that seating and a hat conferences and it. We make every effort never to fill the face of anyone without them that said the next likely guest was none other than to encryption."

" It's that Dan -- you're talking about hacking -- point with with. Pat well I'm actually really excited -- on again this is that there reasons there -- presentation."

" Fourth it actually. And that is actually four things that I'm gonna talk about for hacking -- point and the first is as -- talked about sort of started."

" Is that how your point is and it. Taken over the world in terms of while actually Gartner predicts -- will be more common in network file shares in the next two years. Which I think it's kind of scary."

" It think about the people that are and they -- their point and an -- pieces that mean they're shaking your head right now that. It it started out as a free service sticking with windows server 200313. Collaboration does -- in England and it's basically a really nice front and for -- when you really get down to it. But. Yes that's Microsoft thing for. For collaboration that's now built into office at 37 it's really tight integration which is software yes I love it you know let's sysadmins swear by it towards vulnerability with public yet everybody adopting this -- much better than just a regular voters there."

" I'm in terms of it depends I look at of course from user perspective yet it is much better than polish air because much users use. Within a trade office and of course you have to look at that -- the security model it is and of course as a result would be much easier to use. The the repository just grows really quickly if people start putting all of their data on it. And of course again talking about safety our security model. It's -- by default everybody has read access to everything that you put on the site everything --"

" You can't you permission so that -- certain like marketing has that and -- has had these. Groups it's it's just everything."

" Of course you can't -- that okay -- my reservation is that when you talk about the default security model. That's also gonna be. You know on a vast majority of sites to get deployed that's how to going to need it."

" As of course you can set for missions on the various documents and -- a group bassist -- what -- scraping but I think that very few people use it."

" And very few people go to travel."

" Yeah well I mean this administrators being lazy with Microsoft software I'd never heard of anything and so absurd but like I can imagine. If being especially a problem when you've got a lot intellectual property there you got somebody leaves company and -- direct before they plug in that USB drive and albums. Sort of files and so and so is is that the main -- or some other vulnerabilities like what what is your what's your -- your research."

" Yet researchers and has been fruitful the first thing is again. Okay we've got that all security but unfortunately you see is it. Not even."

" People not go better than the default they'll actually it works well so to speak. I missed it victories like. What can I it's actually scary. But -- you users' searches on Google. -- globally in Dextre has picked up numbers SharePoint sites that obviously deployed correctly publicly on the Internet."

" And you could see for example administrative agency should -- yes there's there are thousands of sites that come out."

" Kind of things would users I mean this really sounds like. Fun Johnny I hack stuff Google through here locally kind of super easy."

" Cranky you put an honest I don't I don't remember the -- it relieves the need to look for. I did a blog post and maybe I can I literally felt the earth and check that out yet anyway. Actually you just play it just like a little bit against free CD -- That's Acker. But he just play with the site look at somebody add links to come out on you know and Earl the browser and just search for some of those girls in Google and you'll find sites that have mistakenly exposed. So now do you it would with you. Com plus Apple if you find somebody's at girls. Yeah its own -- get the -- website."

" That I am pro -- I have a feeling because you don't share points out --"

" So there's a lot of powerful stuff going on how to that you."

" And again and it."

" So what was the that's will be working on yes of the told him back to your first talking about is my observation is that -- Fisher points like it's an -- People upload everything to talk about our."

" If you've got your IT people putting documents on --"

" Virtual lets you search for patterns using regular expressions in Newbury all the documents shared database. For example search for Social Security pattern. All the phone numbers. SharePoint documents or it."

" Credit card numbers. Nobody ever -- Social Security numbers or credit our next health threats and put them on here somewhere. It's not hurt especially not all thirty million there please. Update it got to sit and read at a college didn't pay much attention during the installation is it. Just once again to check mark on the iPods or point out. Task that it has action items looks a little lower -- Next thing you know we've we've got me so what kind of -- you and we -- mystery you're there make them safer."

" Yet yeah that's a great question so the remediation here definitely. Is actually ever recommend using these tools using these techniques -- kind of convince yourself of the problem. Start to learn what the security patterns I think you should be understanding for your your -- site."

" I'm a man indeed dig into your site and make sure that access controls are set to what you expect it to be so HR doc additionally be doable -- people each our group."

" Etc. I -- interfaces with active directory so -- you know he's got. For permission structure that works there it really easy to set up site and we hear what I."

" I'm nervous to say that that is really easy again this is an area I'm a little bit outside of what I've been experimenting with but I told it actually getting your groups. To translate directly from actor director SharePoint isn't always easy. To do and again so we're back to one of the reasons why people don't necessarily have trouble again."

" Very interesting so so you're gonna release -- it'll. Of course is actually Garrity on its item is on complex. Not an even a tool is that. Moss radiates search. Lost it is MO SS transfer -- accept office SharePoint server that's Maastricht excerpts complex."

" Great and people can always to -- you rigidities secured a come right correct that's awesome it's excellent for I think I'm talking to us we appreciate it and I'm looking -- you speak it."

" Now it's time for this week's trivia and ready. Our rights simply named aircraft Daryn and Robin was sitting behind on the aircraft carrier. Users to send me your answer to uniforms and hook you up with -- by stickers and other goodies. Now this week's trivia is sponsored by fax to -- by choice. Texas the number one German expert here and it's naturally to -- your choice during the month of October. This -- excellence to give you and a friend the opportunity to win a trip to Germany as part of its October fest celebration. The fitted -- the history. Did we mention it got a killer hacking and tech and has seen growth. Well anyway if you haven't experienced your mini you just have a completely lists of register for a chance to win a one week trip to Germany courtesy of effects. On your cellphone text easy okay ST EER. Ads to be automatically registered or logged on to fax -- dot com for the full details. Next Darren got a chance to talk to Apple -- about the com and did attack."

" Yeah so. You talk about the cold boot attack and I know a lot of people it's it's really been abuzz recently but for the people that aren't familiar with the cold that that's actually explain what that is why it's important."

" There yeah so basically Google news actives. -- one and observation about out. Memories of -- programs knows my memory as well yeah doesn't it. -- A minute passengers. And as passengers slowly discharge. And to discharge the time depends entirely on the environment so for example if you had an average him. Depending on the type of memory chip to be anywhere. Point one seconds to thirty seconds before it's fully discharged which means that it still has some semblance of data. During that thirty seconds. And if you were to clueless but say it can't stand there which costs nine dollars at the star simply insert the can stand there and -- it -- cold stuff yeah under the memory. That will increase the retention time. And essentially what that means is that you can take that friendship out of a computer blockage -- another computer plug it in and then read the data management or potentially turned machine on and off. Read the data out of that -- here and -- You only have --"

" Okay so we don't know that physical access -- got that all bets are off. So you. So what you've done as you put together tool so they you can what restart and it off of another device and and restore the memory has network."

" Well there a couple of tools what it is those taxes rates here. This iPod which is running -- stock Apple's firmware. -- explain industrial stuff is right now. And I don't know what happened yeah apparently. This is actually made by adults on the other person on the team wrote -- as -- memories of utilities. And down basically disagrees not because of course has physical access. That there isn't this kind of music just stopped Apple from. And through automated and it."

" I want to go through customs it looks just like an Apple iPod in fact even plays music just like it's supposed exactly it is an Apple iPod the only difference images partition table. And we changed the rated yet distance but it does have to be an iPod again you know USB driver thing like that."

" Indeed. -- development the other one I haven't here. Somewhere and -- right. Essentially. This is for a local tax included -- USB hard drives and basically we also have you other payloads one of them is called pixie gala which works ever on normal on it's -- This is most 66 machines through tegra hits including -- likely -- an hour drive exactly. Just -- that instead booting up and Amber's idea of our. System whenever wherever it is hard to decide the plan."

" A case is elegy axis machine you've got physical access it whether it's the -- he did or the iPod -- We you're gonna have to you know and then you restart and instance you did to restart and not just like shutting it down and then bringing it back up you've you've done such -- where. It's the memory is still active so we can power cycle it enough I'm assuming that's how worsens we didn't power cycle memory everything's still there. The demo we bit off something is not putting something up back into memory."

" waited so there's there's three in one physical axis because -- iPod -- any business. The other it would be network security orbit yes I agree it's -- another. I turn it. And did -- there it means you haven't minus nine in the second place -- you know network and if you were. Pleased and modified slightly you would be able to make it's that -- broadcast. -- Broadcast network -- news is that towards us blacks."

" just -- and it's right up and act so okay so. No matter what you meant that you choose to do. You've got essentially as much of the memories yes was possibly retain what you did or if people with -- pop it into the machine what is satellite humans."

" An attacker. It is. It's -- it's practically."

" Now there's -- before it's and it could be -- that -- good. Now if there's any number of things running out of system you point in time where there's sensitive data in memory. And that's sensitive data can reach you on that passes. Covering the sense that he believes the same password on multiple places for example. It was a bad idea and it is it's. It's also very possible that you have one -- that unlocks it and that if you have that one password -- that you like to and expect them the past."

" So how do we scrub through the numbers who got memory dump but it's just buying area it's just didn't. Nothing to us you know it they caddies of that and actually get something useful lot of that because this is -- do you have a table. Is it like on a hard drive we have like a table you can go through and actually. Try to piece back together what everything or is just random bits."

" I mean. That's funny. In some cases depending on him out of kindness. Past -- possible there a lot of randomness. Which is why he has he finder program at least. It actually you will. You're an intelligent analysis and updated -- its its and it will basically be able to detect whether -- it is a good progress -- that's signatures -- like that looks like yesterday -- this looks like -- take place on signature based traditional -- and think about signature but essentially yes there is a testament to perform -- not performing. -- like you determine -- its -- another test which -- and -- tests determined. If it is NASD. Is it random ass and that we you know like its nearest example we throw that out it's probably not too."

" Something to really interest in dual burden not just you know what the on the black -- side of things but also you're doing forensics. And I'm here you know law enforcement must be all over that. It okay so. What what's the mitigating factor here I am concerned. -- my own personal like my laptop you know and -- leave it for a few moments ago and I come back in -- have gone -- what are what was your idea."

" Bow down basically got a lot tubman you security should probably never spend it to rant should probably announcement that -- unless it requires password when you turn it back on. And not a log in screen like a -- authentication password so that you. I don't machine on the virus -- for going to protect me here I asked us for almost certainly harm -- At least against the dedicated attacker and the reason is because of Ozzfest we'll stop the machines from booting. Continue to apply power to the -- and sit there and wait. Forever and at that point you can what -- try again or. Exactly you try to do something else you could. All the hard drive out and replace it with your hard drive and side you can -- the machine is on instantly and as a result of being able to do that you go to class probably just. -- like advanced sister's -- system -- news risers software as an extended and it doesn't have that truth and that's it."

" That is awoke. What needs to change to to make -- of -- problem or do you see it as a problem."

" And having its problems in that. Certainly one way to people protect themselves against unreasonable searches and seizures and and warrantless seizure world visiting of the day down their computer."

" Exactly don't yeah I Edwards recently going to Canada don't -- candidate without a misinterpreted and might doing the right thing is that smarter or. Is is that he knows -- well as it."

" Both I lectured and I think it did relief projects like the best -- that's around actually. By the Internet or read procurement -- broke. Visit his is it is it is a little bit of understanding what we're able to view as reliable media president are expected to ask if someone can get it point."

" So if if I had it I opened my profile and then -- stores. The key in memory and then if you can just go ahead and -- the memory can grab the key and help but draw bright bright segment. So if I'm crossing the border to myself TrueCrypt -- like a good person I should make sure that my machine is."

" All fall prey tells maturity you don't have some services. Ramps where you've previously last muffled sound of memory and I mean I don't know -- handles. Suspend to ram or suspend its these days but if there is a way for your computer to override the software to control the router might have a place. If there's a possibility you can accidentally leaked internal on the I don't know enough about -- for sure it is definitely a problem. In general waste software like album program is open. Suspend the computer that -- that type programs memories is written out somewhere and -- planet that's not encrypted it doesn't require password to encrypt that data. If it's Mac OS-X or it doesn't it it didn't -- but it is that it's. -- huge huge huge problem you can and a screen that is even if the software's really."

" So what kind of practices. Being the industry should adopt how to mitigate this."

" I think it would make a lot of sense integrated temperature sensors and computer and sent out along opposite effect of temperature dropping. You my answer hundreds of memory. Goods probably it probably. And am advised that you'd have programs and these days of my memory are extremely sensitive to hear that -- anecdotes. -- And then it would be a race and the race to be needed if you're sending an computer you know for sure that does this for the only computers and sound."

" Is doing what you and when we say your computer your computer may be server co located at some facilities so. Exactly you're saying these that the temperature goes that in my because the case is open and some -- is noted you know we'll let you know the virus. The case store actually open but. If necessary years and that we should take intrusion detection of like the actual virtual network into the realm."

" Absolutely and and I think that it would be really nice if we had -- of the graphics processors on machines. I'm like if you see NCA art card bus card you can slide editing you could say guy here's a block of data -- it -- back. And you did he set up on the -- recently qualities like outlook and it CNN. I'm -- important -- what it means that you would have this. She says I'm Margaret you can program and dust probably audit. And as a result of -- that -- little more than just doing trade suffered a depth and and there's nothing wrong with suffered for them but if there are limitations news distributed providing certain cases. And images -- mail server that mean you're pretty as well because it's really a lot you can do about it and I would -- proximity sensor yeah what's happened is that an attacker can clumsy or hello facility and they can plug into power -- and the power saying well. Obviously staged it to be. Us president of the wall power and it'll back into power into the computer that's that's."

" They like to actually hack into that deletes on the power supply and there -- there multiple ways that it is otherwise -- Republicans like -- like Arthur starts it'll plug -- that and basically half hour back to the entire hours. These cats and how did that that the that way through and then unplug it and it and you can unplug and you and and -- the server putting your black man and runoff or or better you can also then strip the ethernet cable and you and you know basically wire act. A guiding like a little alligator clips -- now I'm feeling very beige boxes but yeah."

" Write something like that basically it's that you need to be it the old son likes workstations start whichever one it was needed to loop back. Instead of having Lou back recruiting you topic of the loop back because network please airs at first. But then what you stop sending. There is no longer test network and receiving. It anymore. You still have -- your right in the middle and right so you're just a look at your past your leg right the -- exactly so I mean that's excellent -- that are probably batteries Spirit that you could think stays up -- is up. -- machine out and as far as the things that machine is not having problems or maybe it matter -- which is having issues for a second. This is."

" The stuff that the Internet was made to to just get go against. Ordered. You know not be destructive I think ultimately go crack this so it's not really cause any alarms -- thing is this just happens like or packets drop. Big deal elect a thousand night and extremists might be down to pages. To explain the army corps do project that's thats cool wary that off the PX he or the job. The iPod -- set up an earlier you talk about the payloads to touch on a little bit of what that is."

" Well there's a -- here for big is it used to be the limits class president okay and now it's called the Harvard project on not a part of it I just simply seen I've seen it I've. -- that a little bit I rather like the project. But the previous it was a written by bill all they're free software and -- site Peta prison not use flash memory source code or something. Totally separate from corporate credit industry software biased implementation. Houses concept of payloads and essentially you can write a program like tetris. And then run it in the -- scenario -- that's -- my partners and like it I motherboard -- by aboard. And that's sports site in flash device. You could for example right -- that -- ultimately."

" Okay this is what you use to build you know your rig that you had cooled memory popped it into that machine is up off there and and that's the software that would actually do that dumping want if you weren't just gonna restart the machine."

" Unfortunately you use it it's very powerful and very useful that's -- because you can use this to scrub the memory. Machine off part of mason last call -- of the memory here that's useful for defender but as an attacker tool what it would allow you to do essentially is you dump all of the memory without actually touching them on dvd -- to -- the distant memory and."

" And ask that load your program into memory dump it you're gonna over write something right exactly it could be something good could just -- advances and people -- Zapatistas specifically physical address you know problems of the -- it's in this particular case that means it -- fitness. And problem and you need one motherboard -- that your -- be able to attack. But the -- and then assembly. Is -- sort these tools freely available Corbett is available to incorporate that into the website and that's freely available says GPL software and suffers under the license that's -- AST -- and used it repaired and as well as the it's. Scraper and USB. It's. The work out our audience find out more information about your research. Almighty wizard lives -- sometimes. I don't like works users group. -- It is a it is there any particular let's please stay that they should check out for further reading on this subject."

" No and a map islands and added accidentally as one legs and it's easy enough announced that not. -- totally understand oh very interesting stuff here."

" Appearance traveled to."

" You're stuck with -- four hour layover in India in one have a little fun. According -- on jobs apparently if -- free Wi-Fi around. You're here in the you just -- either via Wi-Fi -- got a three G. -- much of the clients around you. Julie yeah I think it will pop ups and Patrick were loading -- the lovely and here's the air bag and daily progress beyond. The rings and the he has another week so you need to send a friend of targets and earnings this. Yeah sit back -- parent and you let him. This traveled abroad you're right that. At least these for survival. Carefully game. Deserves -- To survive and that's digital that and he. Have your enemies and it's also an horrific site I environments helix or the gritty valves the game's UST. And it's isn't -- rich environment -- completed entirely unique way to glass is -- Had a chance to play that stage yet we've heard amazing things ERS I was one of -- they'd bring. It's based recently won the game critics Award best interest as fast action. Stores October 16 so good pre order your copy yeah that's -- thank -- dot com."

" Also be sure to check out episode thirty of popSiren. Where image on shows you how to throw the best presidential debate party Everett and gives you the inside scoop on the top places -- you if the economy gets any worse. Or we experienced an unfortunate election turnout. I for one will probably end up going to Toronto Canada. New episodes of popSiren release every. Thursday at noon Pacific."

" Our day it's we're gonna and we end up all that have already been less safe and sound -- that made the events really spectacular. In particular -- Karim and sorts it'll make -- yeah we did an interview with them as well but you isn't bad choices. Okay is it very strongly and -- much of it as an audible."

" Yeah. Together after a few years there's hacker conference them."

" If you're interested it'll be posted as supplemental material on have to find our. Anyways we -- of military tactics were kind I have just music yeah. So in till next time that are -- that. --"

" I'm Indians and."

" Yeah. It was yeah. -- yeah."

" Yeah yeah yeah."

" Wow."

" Does that sort of -- five has brought you by square space. -- And dead space. Only the -- survive."

" Country to mainstream media's portrayal of hackers. We're not all anti social creatures. While we need to while London England patriots' wearing them for those coffee and the occasional aboard. The fact of the matter is we seek out appears both online and off. And -- at the hacker conference the epic venue to gather converters and consume copious amounts of beard. So last week Daryn and I set off to an -- for -- 2008 to speak with some of the prisoners and get an idea of what this -- is all about. Of course not everything went according to plan. More on that later. After along an uneventful flight we made it to San Diego and -- officially started we had the chance to meet up with Robin went to talk about the jasager. And where better place and it's -- you can aircraft carrier."

" Hey guys what's up were here on the USS midway and I'm finally catching up. With Robin would run -- good. I -- to have you on. Are you guys trying to -- these developer extraordinaire the man behind the pineapple if it's it's for real pineapple and I wanted to ask you some questions about -- and development stuff that's over here. -- and at port on. And I wanted to know on how did you get involved with."

" Karma that about. It'll save not liked by mail and let they watched by surveillance wild. I love they've been asking and -- guessing count anyway but what I NG you know I've watched -- On the general us which accounts. Updated as the bunch I just -- software drivers. I've usually got about them so -- let it that. I got me at play with ads that it what revenue -- cannot give it saying well can -- bring drive -- the space I think it's."

" That's. So when karma was. I come with first invented it is on the that life -- that my parents and indeed it was not updated yeah out great so we've got outdated and how did you get into the whole -- hacking scene in the first place."

" It I don't think this -- security and that kind of thing. And then. What for a web development company. On -- edit existing scared to let applications. While sort of an area that was interested in stuff to play when -- it it collects and and and it didn't songs. Wireless book but the law knots and just."

" We recommend that -- So you can work on Oscar for little lamb that I'm just -- in what may -- were some of the most difficult parts of getting yelling and whatnot that development."

" Today. Obviously the limited that in -- on the -- yet on the phone itself. That's what -- out -- And everything that both say wait shell script so scripts on the group. On there's a lot of us -- was snag in grand island's. So as I -- filing that it would not. He -- all event I'd. Lets you -- LA yeah -- have had not rails -- Gregory Apple. And look played a -- lot of experiments Eddie -- set on that. And helpful way night isn't quite been quite nice that -- the differences and -- So why that your T want to dvd security -- speakers outside Atlanta right. I think that I've been opened the -- my head that extra hugs them pickets lined up but on the phone."

" What's really the difference between. Yeah secure the way it works and somethin' that runs karma on like any -- heart medicine."

" At the moment a privilege it sad. Yeah I did at the yes they got. Is that it's a modular developments. On the phones is not school Latin compact eight hey. You can leave it lightens the way where's that remotely any PC line -- its current version -- many modules touched it. It has been built modular so mechanics on the outlook some ideas for new modules -- for it."

" So the embedded devices related at the core of it as -- posted something where you're just sitting down and actually using. -- PC using it for penetration testing some that this is really one of those things that the -- be it for a battery on it costs and inside of pineapple or. Carton of cigarettes and leave -- around some."

" Yes that I headed into view it and structural iTunes it was he sat alone is Pentax is he took steps to access point. I'd tapes in the chat. Reception. On for the next couple weeks got -- of that network through the excise tax points. I think in ulsan despair and an end a task he -- is that well of them so that I bet it no I didn't. So didn't that. It's seven issue maybe -- the -- I've to telephone you could almost disposable."

" So what we say right now thirty dollar on but what about hardware would in the future I mean on -- justice system and it's made by act on. And then the same thing with this an error of plus you now have so hopefully we can see development in the -- plus what other hardware through proceed --"

" the limitations there it will -- in that room and that's it thanks. We'll look into the guts -- look people asking about the -- we got -- but he. Buzz -- on all of those efforts it acts as a lower yeah yeah so it won't let on the news. You've gotta have via chipset again not in my life -- yet unlocked by drivers all the little else not -- titles -- hot. I'm -- yet got to make up a nice so it's not possible but it does sound work. Going down that road when there were great yeah. -- So witty kind of see this project going. Less that got plenty of ideas fall rag you modules that -- slot on oath any new hardware. Emails sent and a -- play with them. --"

" He's giving it -- liquid what's the modules late Kate so you you build in the structure just kind of like how lot. How wouldn't backtrack everybody Alley he got my does just pop in the model directory you boot up you got a DNA everything. Just shows up -- the picture of how you envision modules working with we got here and how that differentiates it from something like. Karmetasploit."

" And this if any of you saying hey this drop diving -- that you get on the tablet connected clients. The plot days that you drop them modulated and you -- is -- to do it at the module does. Ideas of golf with talking about in scripts and Wi-Fi -- there in national politics of jealousy. I'd like bill also calls through things like NASA so on and not so much you it's not easy client yup to dissect and this client -- all. The next day. And -- Britain writes the modules so much at night so the community can do little modules -- abuse and Sunday. Unpopular Mozart people credits anybody unite them behind it grow from the hopeless."

" Nice they -- telling me earlier about places some interesting ideas about actually running the Nintendo and connected to each other -- really interest."

" Yeah well. Obviously it would be really nice what you what I do is giving access to anybody adults that is connected to it paid. So if Google save -- not want this -- yes yes ago aggregate eight seconds just it and quiet mode connect -- means that the so you could -- box should -- pattern. Believe in light anyway and leave you with please Internet access. On and you just about it and it'll listings of everything."

" Nice on my on their way back on this trip got a four hour layover. And that would airport but -- I've got -- pineapple here he's got a battery pack inside of it and my idea here is I just turn him on. And connect to you is at this idea that I have WPA. That Apple and I just. Connect that and what I hope to do with the routes is -- that it's that my laptop which have connected via Bluetooth tonight cellphone the Internet. Make that the you know provided you. Or the that would anyway this is an often an interest in testing tool I'm I'm really excited about the development future we've already got a lot of people are getting active in the Oscar board that the best way to get all the again on the -- network behind --"

" Projects. Five forums yes to get fought -- Days didn't activate of the lead to a danger to all of the problem that on the exodus that extra days to -- Did you -- Jessica. Hahn's you can email me yes yes did you installed will announce that as well."

" Great Robin thanks so much are coming on and we're having a blast the -- to school at tech that's more of the craft area."

" that number 74. If you'll be passing through airport security with a battery powered Fon routers -- out of plastic pineapple yeah he's sure to taken out of your carry on bag and placed it into. Guess what exactly questioning it turns out it doesn't act like a big yellow grenade the X ray. -- the trouble to confronted by square space. Square space is publishing system for anyone looking to go to blogger put other neat website with square space drop boxes photo galleries forms and blogs are just some of the features that you just minutes without ever touching source code. They'll -- building the new live parties flash and five gaming clan site in the coming weeks to send us your ideas what to include. I've been working with them and it turns out that the death tax -- season. Anyway its two week free trial without credit artwork in the squares -- dot com check out."

" excluding aircraft are a little more -- because without saying that seating and a hat conferences and it. We make every effort never to fill the face of anyone without them that said the next likely guest was none other than to encryption."

" It's that Dan -- you're talking about hacking -- point with with. Pat well I'm actually really excited -- on again this is that there reasons there -- presentation."

" Fourth it actually. And that is actually four things that I'm gonna talk about for hacking -- point and the first is as -- talked about sort of started."

" Is that how your point is and it. Taken over the world in terms of while actually Gartner predicts -- will be more common in network file shares in the next two years. Which I think it's kind of scary."

" It think about the people that are and they -- their point and an -- pieces that mean they're shaking your head right now that. It it started out as a free service sticking with windows server 200313. Collaboration does -- in England and it's basically a really nice front and for -- when you really get down to it. But. Yes that's Microsoft thing for. For collaboration that's now built into office at 37 it's really tight integration which is software yes I love it you know let's sysadmins swear by it towards vulnerability with public yet everybody adopting this -- much better than just a regular voters there."

" I'm in terms of it depends I look at of course from user perspective yet it is much better than polish air because much users use. Within a trade office and of course you have to look at that -- the security model it is and of course as a result would be much easier to use. The the repository just grows really quickly if people start putting all of their data on it. And of course again talking about safety our security model. It's -- by default everybody has read access to everything that you put on the site everything --"

" You can't you permission so that -- certain like marketing has that and -- has had these. Groups it's it's just everything."

" Of course you can't -- that okay -- my reservation is that when you talk about the default security model. That's also gonna be. You know on a vast majority of sites to get deployed that's how to going to need it."

" As of course you can set for missions on the various documents and -- a group bassist -- what -- scraping but I think that very few people use it."

" And very few people go to travel."

" Yeah well I mean this administrators being lazy with Microsoft software I'd never heard of anything and so absurd but like I can imagine. If being especially a problem when you've got a lot intellectual property there you got somebody leaves company and -- direct before they plug in that USB drive and albums. Sort of files and so and so is is that the main -- or some other vulnerabilities like what what is your what's your -- your research."

" Yet researchers and has been fruitful the first thing is again. Okay we've got that all security but unfortunately you see is it. Not even."

" People not go better than the default they'll actually it works well so to speak. I missed it victories like. What can I it's actually scary. But -- you users' searches on Google. -- globally in Dextre has picked up numbers SharePoint sites that obviously deployed correctly publicly on the Internet."

" And you could see for example administrative agency should -- yes there's there are thousands of sites that come out."

" Kind of things would users I mean this really sounds like. Fun Johnny I hack stuff Google through here locally kind of super easy."

" Cranky you put an honest I don't I don't remember the -- it relieves the need to look for. I did a blog post and maybe I can I literally felt the earth and check that out yet anyway. Actually you just play it just like a little bit against free CD -- That's Acker. But he just play with the site look at somebody add links to come out on you know and Earl the browser and just search for some of those girls in Google and you'll find sites that have mistakenly exposed. So now do you it would with you. Com plus Apple if you find somebody's at girls. Yeah its own -- get the -- website."

" That I am pro -- I have a feeling because you don't share points out --"

" So there's a lot of powerful stuff going on how to that you."

" And again and it."

" So what was the that's will be working on yes of the told him back to your first talking about is my observation is that -- Fisher points like it's an -- People upload everything to talk about our."

" If you've got your IT people putting documents on --"

" Virtual lets you search for patterns using regular expressions in Newbury all the documents shared database. For example search for Social Security pattern. All the phone numbers. SharePoint documents or it."

" Credit card numbers. Nobody ever -- Social Security numbers or credit our next health threats and put them on here somewhere. It's not hurt especially not all thirty million there please. Update it got to sit and read at a college didn't pay much attention during the installation is it. Just once again to check mark on the iPods or point out. Task that it has action items looks a little lower -- Next thing you know we've we've got me so what kind of -- you and we -- mystery you're there make them safer."

" Yet yeah that's a great question so the remediation here definitely. Is actually ever recommend using these tools using these techniques -- kind of convince yourself of the problem. Start to learn what the security patterns I think you should be understanding for your your -- site."

" I'm a man indeed dig into your site and make sure that access controls are set to what you expect it to be so HR doc additionally be doable -- people each our group."

" Etc. I -- interfaces with active directory so -- you know he's got. For permission structure that works there it really easy to set up site and we hear what I."

" I'm nervous to say that that is really easy again this is an area I'm a little bit outside of what I've been experimenting with but I told it actually getting your groups. To translate directly from actor director SharePoint isn't always easy. To do and again so we're back to one of the reasons why people don't necessarily have trouble again."

" Very interesting so so you're gonna release -- it'll. Of course is actually Garrity on its item is on complex. Not an even a tool is that. Moss radiates search. Lost it is MO SS transfer -- accept office SharePoint server that's Maastricht excerpts complex."

" Great and people can always to -- you rigidities secured a come right correct that's awesome it's excellent for I think I'm talking to us we appreciate it and I'm looking -- you speak it."

" Now it's time for this week's trivia and ready. Our rights simply named aircraft Daryn and Robin was sitting behind on the aircraft carrier. Users to send me your answer to uniforms and hook you up with -- by stickers and other goodies. Now this week's trivia is sponsored by fax to -- by choice. Texas the number one German expert here and it's naturally to -- your choice during the month of October. This -- excellence to give you and a friend the opportunity to win a trip to Germany as part of its October fest celebration. The fitted -- the history. Did we mention it got a killer hacking and tech and has seen growth. Well anyway if you haven't experienced your mini you just have a completely lists of register for a chance to win a one week trip to Germany courtesy of effects. On your cellphone text easy okay ST EER. Ads to be automatically registered or logged on to fax -- dot com for the full details. Next Darren got a chance to talk to Apple -- about the com and did attack."

" Yeah so. You talk about the cold boot attack and I know a lot of people it's it's really been abuzz recently but for the people that aren't familiar with the cold that that's actually explain what that is why it's important."

" There yeah so basically Google news actives. -- one and observation about out. Memories of -- programs knows my memory as well yeah doesn't it. -- A minute passengers. And as passengers slowly discharge. And to discharge the time depends entirely on the environment so for example if you had an average him. Depending on the type of memory chip to be anywhere. Point one seconds to thirty seconds before it's fully discharged which means that it still has some semblance of data. During that thirty seconds. And if you were to clueless but say it can't stand there which costs nine dollars at the star simply insert the can stand there and -- it -- cold stuff yeah under the memory. That will increase the retention time. And essentially what that means is that you can take that friendship out of a computer blockage -- another computer plug it in and then read the data management or potentially turned machine on and off. Read the data out of that -- here and -- You only have --"

" Okay so we don't know that physical access -- got that all bets are off. So you. So what you've done as you put together tool so they you can what restart and it off of another device and and restore the memory has network."

" Well there a couple of tools what it is those taxes rates here. This iPod which is running -- stock Apple's firmware. -- explain industrial stuff is right now. And I don't know what happened yeah apparently. This is actually made by adults on the other person on the team wrote -- as -- memories of utilities. And down basically disagrees not because of course has physical access. That there isn't this kind of music just stopped Apple from. And through automated and it."

" I want to go through customs it looks just like an Apple iPod in fact even plays music just like it's supposed exactly it is an Apple iPod the only difference images partition table. And we changed the rated yet distance but it does have to be an iPod again you know USB driver thing like that."

" Indeed. -- development the other one I haven't here. Somewhere and -- right. Essentially. This is for a local tax included -- USB hard drives and basically we also have you other payloads one of them is called pixie gala which works ever on normal on it's -- This is most 66 machines through tegra hits including -- likely -- an hour drive exactly. Just -- that instead booting up and Amber's idea of our. System whenever wherever it is hard to decide the plan."

" A case is elegy axis machine you've got physical access it whether it's the -- he did or the iPod -- We you're gonna have to you know and then you restart and instance you did to restart and not just like shutting it down and then bringing it back up you've you've done such -- where. It's the memory is still active so we can power cycle it enough I'm assuming that's how worsens we didn't power cycle memory everything's still there. The demo we bit off something is not putting something up back into memory."

" waited so there's there's three in one physical axis because -- iPod -- any business. The other it would be network security orbit yes I agree it's -- another. I turn it. And did -- there it means you haven't minus nine in the second place -- you know network and if you were. Pleased and modified slightly you would be able to make it's that -- broadcast. -- Broadcast network -- news is that towards us blacks."

" just -- and it's right up and act so okay so. No matter what you meant that you choose to do. You've got essentially as much of the memories yes was possibly retain what you did or if people with -- pop it into the machine what is satellite humans."

" An attacker. It is. It's -- it's practically."

" Now there's -- before it's and it could be -- that -- good. Now if there's any number of things running out of system you point in time where there's sensitive data in memory. And that's sensitive data can reach you on that passes. Covering the sense that he believes the same password on multiple places for example. It was a bad idea and it is it's. It's also very possible that you have one -- that unlocks it and that if you have that one password -- that you like to and expect them the past."

" So how do we scrub through the numbers who got memory dump but it's just buying area it's just didn't. Nothing to us you know it they caddies of that and actually get something useful lot of that because this is -- do you have a table. Is it like on a hard drive we have like a table you can go through and actually. Try to piece back together what everything or is just random bits."

" I mean. That's funny. In some cases depending on him out of kindness. Past -- possible there a lot of randomness. Which is why he has he finder program at least. It actually you will. You're an intelligent analysis and updated -- its its and it will basically be able to detect whether -- it is a good progress -- that's signatures -- like that looks like yesterday -- this looks like -- take place on signature based traditional -- and think about signature but essentially yes there is a testament to perform -- not performing. -- like you determine -- its -- another test which -- and -- tests determined. If it is NASD. Is it random ass and that we you know like its nearest example we throw that out it's probably not too."

" Something to really interest in dual burden not just you know what the on the black -- side of things but also you're doing forensics. And I'm here you know law enforcement must be all over that. It okay so. What what's the mitigating factor here I am concerned. -- my own personal like my laptop you know and -- leave it for a few moments ago and I come back in -- have gone -- what are what was your idea."

" Bow down basically got a lot tubman you security should probably never spend it to rant should probably announcement that -- unless it requires password when you turn it back on. And not a log in screen like a -- authentication password so that you. I don't machine on the virus -- for going to protect me here I asked us for almost certainly harm -- At least against the dedicated attacker and the reason is because of Ozzfest we'll stop the machines from booting. Continue to apply power to the -- and sit there and wait. Forever and at that point you can what -- try again or. Exactly you try to do something else you could. All the hard drive out and replace it with your hard drive and side you can -- the machine is on instantly and as a result of being able to do that you go to class probably just. -- like advanced sister's -- system -- news risers software as an extended and it doesn't have that truth and that's it."

" That is awoke. What needs to change to to make -- of -- problem or do you see it as a problem."

" And having its problems in that. Certainly one way to people protect themselves against unreasonable searches and seizures and and warrantless seizure world visiting of the day down their computer."

" Exactly don't yeah I Edwards recently going to Canada don't -- candidate without a misinterpreted and might doing the right thing is that smarter or. Is is that he knows -- well as it."

" Both I lectured and I think it did relief projects like the best -- that's around actually. By the Internet or read procurement -- broke. Visit his is it is it is a little bit of understanding what we're able to view as reliable media president are expected to ask if someone can get it point."

" So if if I had it I opened my profile and then -- stores. The key in memory and then if you can just go ahead and -- the memory can grab the key and help but draw bright bright segment. So if I'm crossing the border to myself TrueCrypt -- like a good person I should make sure that my machine is."

" All fall prey tells maturity you don't have some services. Ramps where you've previously last muffled sound of memory and I mean I don't know -- handles. Suspend to ram or suspend its these days but if there is a way for your computer to override the software to control the router might have a place. If there's a possibility you can accidentally leaked internal on the I don't know enough about -- for sure it is definitely a problem. In general waste software like album program is open. Suspend the computer that -- that type programs memories is written out somewhere and -- planet that's not encrypted it doesn't require password to encrypt that data. If it's Mac OS-X or it doesn't it it didn't -- but it is that it's. -- huge huge huge problem you can and a screen that is even if the software's really."

" So what kind of practices. Being the industry should adopt how to mitigate this."

" I think it would make a lot of sense integrated temperature sensors and computer and sent out along opposite effect of temperature dropping. You my answer hundreds of memory. Goods probably it probably. And am advised that you'd have programs and these days of my memory are extremely sensitive to hear that -- anecdotes. -- And then it would be a race and the race to be needed if you're sending an computer you know for sure that does this for the only computers and sound."

" Is doing what you and when we say your computer your computer may be server co located at some facilities so. Exactly you're saying these that the temperature goes that in my because the case is open and some -- is noted you know we'll let you know the virus. The case store actually open but. If necessary years and that we should take intrusion detection of like the actual virtual network into the realm."

" Absolutely and and I think that it would be really nice if we had -- of the graphics processors on machines. I'm like if you see NCA art card bus card you can slide editing you could say guy here's a block of data -- it -- back. And you did he set up on the -- recently qualities like outlook and it CNN. I'm -- important -- what it means that you would have this. She says I'm Margaret you can program and dust probably audit. And as a result of -- that -- little more than just doing trade suffered a depth and and there's nothing wrong with suffered for them but if there are limitations news distributed providing certain cases. And images -- mail server that mean you're pretty as well because it's really a lot you can do about it and I would -- proximity sensor yeah what's happened is that an attacker can clumsy or hello facility and they can plug into power -- and the power saying well. Obviously staged it to be. Us president of the wall power and it'll back into power into the computer that's that's."

" They like to actually hack into that deletes on the power supply and there -- there multiple ways that it is otherwise -- Republicans like -- like Arthur starts it'll plug -- that and basically half hour back to the entire hours. These cats and how did that that the that way through and then unplug it and it and you can unplug and you and and -- the server putting your black man and runoff or or better you can also then strip the ethernet cable and you and you know basically wire act. A guiding like a little alligator clips -- now I'm feeling very beige boxes but yeah."

" Write something like that basically it's that you need to be it the old son likes workstations start whichever one it was needed to loop back. Instead of having Lou back recruiting you topic of the loop back because network please airs at first. But then what you stop sending. There is no longer test network and receiving. It anymore. You still have -- your right in the middle and right so you're just a look at your past your leg right the -- exactly so I mean that's excellent -- that are probably batteries Spirit that you could think stays up -- is up. -- machine out and as far as the things that machine is not having problems or maybe it matter -- which is having issues for a second. This is."

" The stuff that the Internet was made to to just get go against. Ordered. You know not be destructive I think ultimately go crack this so it's not really cause any alarms -- thing is this just happens like or packets drop. Big deal elect a thousand night and extremists might be down to pages. To explain the army corps do project that's thats cool wary that off the PX he or the job. The iPod -- set up an earlier you talk about the payloads to touch on a little bit of what that is."

" Well there's a -- here for big is it used to be the limits class president okay and now it's called the Harvard project on not a part of it I just simply seen I've seen it I've. -- that a little bit I rather like the project. But the previous it was a written by bill all they're free software and -- site Peta prison not use flash memory source code or something. Totally separate from corporate credit industry software biased implementation. Houses concept of payloads and essentially you can write a program like tetris. And then run it in the -- scenario -- that's -- my partners and like it I motherboard -- by aboard. And that's sports site in flash device. You could for example right -- that -- ultimately."

" Okay this is what you use to build you know your rig that you had cooled memory popped it into that machine is up off there and and that's the software that would actually do that dumping want if you weren't just gonna restart the machine."

" Unfortunately you use it it's very powerful and very useful that's -- because you can use this to scrub the memory. Machine off part of mason last call -- of the memory here that's useful for defender but as an attacker tool what it would allow you to do essentially is you dump all of the memory without actually touching them on dvd -- to -- the distant memory and."

" And ask that load your program into memory dump it you're gonna over write something right exactly it could be something good could just -- advances and people -- Zapatistas specifically physical address you know problems of the -- it's in this particular case that means it -- fitness. And problem and you need one motherboard -- that your -- be able to attack. But the -- and then assembly. Is -- sort these tools freely available Corbett is available to incorporate that into the website and that's freely available says GPL software and suffers under the license that's -- AST -- and used it repaired and as well as the it's. Scraper and USB. It's. The work out our audience find out more information about your research. Almighty wizard lives -- sometimes. I don't like works users group. -- It is a it is there any particular let's please stay that they should check out for further reading on this subject."

" No and a map islands and added accidentally as one legs and it's easy enough announced that not. -- totally understand oh very interesting stuff here."

" Appearance traveled to."

" You're stuck with -- four hour layover in India in one have a little fun. According -- on jobs apparently if -- free Wi-Fi around. You're here in the you just -- either via Wi-Fi -- got a three G. -- much of the clients around you. Julie yeah I think it will pop ups and Patrick were loading -- the lovely and here's the air bag and daily progress beyond. The rings and the he has another week so you need to send a friend of targets and earnings this. Yeah sit back -- parent and you let him. This traveled abroad you're right that. At least these for survival. Carefully game. Deserves -- To survive and that's digital that and he. Have your enemies and it's also an horrific site I environments helix or the gritty valves the game's UST. And it's isn't -- rich environment -- completed entirely unique way to glass is -- Had a chance to play that stage yet we've heard amazing things ERS I was one of -- they'd bring. It's based recently won the game critics Award best interest as fast action. Stores October 16 so good pre order your copy yeah that's -- thank -- dot com."

" Also be sure to check out episode thirty of popSiren. Where image on shows you how to throw the best presidential debate party Everett and gives you the inside scoop on the top places -- you if the economy gets any worse. Or we experienced an unfortunate election turnout. I for one will probably end up going to Toronto Canada. New episodes of popSiren release every. Thursday at noon Pacific."

" Our day it's we're gonna and we end up all that have already been less safe and sound -- that made the events really spectacular. In particular -- Karim and sorts it'll make -- yeah we did an interview with them as well but you isn't bad choices. Okay is it very strongly and -- much of it as an audible."

" Yeah. Together after a few years there's hacker conference them."

" If you're interested it'll be posted as supplemental material on have to find our. Anyways we -- of military tactics were kind I have just music yeah. So in till next time that are -- that. --"

" I'm Indians and."

" Yeah. It was yeah. -- yeah."

" Yeah yeah yeah."