" This episode I offend by proxy by. Good that is outcome Netflix dot com. And the music. Hey I'm Joshua and I thin with a comic book discussion show from the website I've been -- dot com. That's not -- Ron this is our cartoonist Alex Robinson everybody and -- of the -- is that is that the title."

" They use -- sort cartoonist America. There alcoholic so cartoonists. Around. I have issues the -- a graphic novelist now to sound like I'm really trying to be like smarter something but. Yeah comic book artists news or use graphic -- too pretentious cartoonists is right there. There it's not soccer pride thing is now it's good enough for Charles -- for that'll work. -- asking you you're a professional in this as a living. How do you get from the point where you decide you want to do cartoons. Comic books or whatever (%expletive) are -- this is this is your data -- Well I graduated from art school I had a full time job but we're in Barnes & Noble. And it's just like when your character exactly what -- that. -- did you major in in and are there cartooning. Beijing cartooning. A lot of people like new walls and want to be part here's the sort of hedge their bets in major illustration and I was Mosley. You know appears to be real you don't want anything to fall back now analysis of this -- that the business stars. I can use little -- live -- that so. Yes I graduated from art school and the idea. Was determined to get published and I was due for me for 28 me Alex a year emails any -- publishers. Eventually one of -- bit him you know gradually yeah you know climbed. Clinton savage slacker and was box office poison that the first thing you did or I did some other ideas fresh out of college but none of them really seen. Much wider audience thankfully they're terrible so. -- those poisons experts and it really you know. Serious and in the mini comics d.s self publish those and distribute -- yet many comics you know I've discovered the copy shop and you know. Street stores sell it shows get the publishers the United to recognize that the stuff that ended up being part of -- later -- or or or did you read you some of that story don't know why I I kept that'll man I'm. When we did the big collection there's no question it will go back in the draws me earlier pages which to me seem like. I came look at the crew it seems like. There can stop. You obviously swallowed your tale well just rejoice first forty pages -- 21 to the book is all inclusive yet the book has everything you can see my props -- involve -- from. You know terrible -- pretty okay so at what point were you able to. Like quit today in. Line. It was probably about halfway through and two. I don't want to give people impression that you know. On -- highlights drawing comic books have been some -- comics my wife also you know works she's yours supportive so was best. Factor so let me in the arts fighters yes supportive spouse. It's true. And."

" I and it just it must be such a scary prospect of having a job one day that you know you know some reason -- check in right. And then and then you know you're like come on my -- and this was when you're still doin' through."

" yet this is back in the Antarctic press here ariz was going on now it was quarterly slash bi monthly -- My wife will -- my girlfriend at the time room. Realize that if I want to -- anything -- like couldn't keep the -- job man and so we were investment. -- like okay well. -- the note goes and thankfully it paid off your mind your every day everything I've seen him today. So I always answer -- question it was really scary it was it was delightful that is you know -- truthful so -- video frankly worked out but you know. I was never so happy that the equipment. -- feeling. Let me ask you we've talked other guys recommend there's specifically -- those one time and it -- really answer you're constantly. Have this year. -- right the fear of well this is working so clever what happens I mean like -- this fro awhile now -- is the -- is still there or. Well it's it's sort of like. Each book I'm convinced is going to be. A bomb it yeah I'll start working on -- like that looks terrible -- and heated you know. You know so far everything's going okay but. You know it's inevitable wouldn't produce them stinker at some point so what's the it was -- it happened that in terms of success. But I think that's a good thing because it's her freeze -- does that well it's gonna bombs ought to do what I want and not have to worry about. So. Do you tend to write yourself and that is your. Trying to attain. Yeah I think. When I first started off and its immediate -- and it was. Aiming for a certain audience and that's why it was just -- and going to write that Islam and you -- story I would like read. And hopefully other people like to you know again thankfully that -- that's -- the book box office poison that the pressure. It was going to be you know terrible -- Question four. -- All of Becky from the movie mummy dearest at what point they city. Your voters fox sports night that goes by they would vote so one box that duplicates of it and price. So. And it's not does not a wire hanger in the please check now on the learned the hard again. Scary. Let me let me ask you when you started box office poison. 1984. Or eight or. -- about -- so at that point it's like the image boom right -- concert you went completely the opposite way I mean. Was there anything else like that time -- well there was. There were alternative you know there -- books like love and rockets than to her then. Eight ball things that you know so. I guess that's sort of more peep show books like that it was known more for. Yeah but when I was really reading many superhero comics of the image thing it's kind of like it was. You know certainly interesting -- goalies will also just is that I mean like the industry was like looming before making millions of dollars just before I find it funny that your book actually took place. Select created during the whole crashed directly that yes actually I think guidance of I think like a month and a half or -- book. Whistles published. Diamond was the only distribute it last what might publisher called wells capital just got bought out my time so your orders are probably going to be cut in half. The great -- picked the perfect since you. Two you weathered that storm did you actually have -- met my timing is pretty good because now the old graphic novels. You know the hottest thing around so you know getting reviewed everywhere it. You know as a respectable thing so now and it's -- you can you can you describe box and as -- Republican. We talked about the show but -- right here from you what how what you wish -- box of witness. Box office poison. Is the gigantic book that follows the lives of a budget New Yorkers that are terrible job. Relationships Balkan baton. Yet it's basically down. A bunch of people trying to figure out what adult adult it is they're -- like early money at all you know fresh out of college community. Well as one terror groups like in his seventies but other -- people in their twenties early thirties you know it's a lot of fractions war I experiences that career by going to. I'm loves them. Did you have an over I mean it's a big sort of sweeping epic right of everyday life I guess. Did you have did you know what it was did you plan or it means you get it over here six years. Yes excuse that started 942000. You know is going to be. Yeah I was a huge fan of service and you know decent as those tremendously thick books and I bet the pan am 1 wanted to -- long. Graphic novel take time to -- a lot of characters agent you know. So why think very early on that I said well this is probably run about. When he issues something -- Atlanta. When she reaches -- I was pretty from the start it was pretty. Pretty close to figuring. It was nice that you're able to take sides have those. -- pages of but yes the care if the question -- yet to learn something about that this might get really in the long. Characters that they at fault line you're that you. Yes it was kind of funny because them. Sherman the main character. The backward in the bookstore. As the book went on I liked him less and less so by the end of the book I really couldn't stand -- you had to picket. Well I -- I don't know whether that was -- Carriker whether whether I got tired of news so why it was less forgiving of his sins and they think that's though. You can see got annoyed by fictional character that you created. Yeah like like a friend -- you've you've sort of spread the split up with overtime but yeah I -- so I mean it's it's sort of like I guess as -- It's almost like I put my own worst -- it to him though at the beginning here in the same boat people that these terrible jobs needed and then adds. You know I sort of progressive life -- sort of frustrated that he was not progressed. So you still shining the same thing not yet I think and you while we character Ed the other character who. Starter off very much as they -- minor supporting character at the -- went on I identified with him more so he sort of become more dominant as the book ends. Has the last word books. Which some people would like some people that was kind of weakness but. Are you will let me ask you are you it's it's been awhile -- you've done I mean it really. He started at fourteen years ago so I -- and we're still talking about it that's going to biggest thing but I like you ever look back through it what do you what do you think about it these days. I mean I haven't read it in a long time. Have you ever gone back and read it like after it was done. I -- detail I don't think -- do that what -- that it -- now look at the opening page it's just you know plus it's sick of them from the scene for so long but but. I mean I'm. It's deadly levels popular book and it's still the thing I get most the most comments on it and he's been like -- tree came out my second book. But it's sort of revive interest about those poison and it actually sold better then second book if those second was music it's sort of it's part people linemen would mean he heard it but. So why. Some grateful that I mean. If you want book -- hit and of the people like him. That's more than most people have."

" It I don't live for me it was there's something very. Very real about it I guess -- the characters seem to be like archetypes there's people I know people like this right. If people like you in the even the other books seem to have analog. This is this type of person in this guy and those -- That's why I mean you be doing that consciously -- these characters are you like and the -- of --"

" No war. Some of the more rom. Inspired by people I know some of them were like sort of idealized versions of people. And some of them were were beast I guess. Famous people like didn't know -- imagine well right -- the terror target these disparate -- record the actual literary -- guard parker who was. Right here he's very funny but sugar or just personal life as a disaster and I think it's time I just read about her via -- let me put. Moneymaker character in the book."

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" Is that typical size you working. Yet these days with the typical size that work him. I used to work. You know ten by fifteen. And mildly just keeps getting smaller and smaller the sales what you -- it -- them having to. Reduce your piece it together vote and totally accurate computers. That's -- on the now -- had and how do you normally like we're got a page do you start with a thumbs down and put money here in Europe pencils or."

" I'll my sketch book -- write it out in union do you sort of he faces -- you know poses or whatever but. Then -- disco. This -- little out. Put in we're balloons this as he sees through halfway and I penciled it I've put in the word balloons register very -- pencils. And then when it comes down any individual panel to much tighter pencils then. -- that you -- literate first. Yeah. It's sort of like the -- like Marvel Comics. Does that ways these sort of don't have to worry about. If -- differs that you have to worry about feeding we're balloons around what you've done sometimes. And you you still literary. Yes so that's that's impressive I gotta say -- no matter how you know I've got some plates of lettering but I just that really old school that way that I like. The flexibility you. But a -- of thirty year Mac computers and the idea. I don't. And really -- street desire to learn. And you computer literate. Of Church and shows -- that's ridiculous -- simpler -- long years but you know with the pack after a box that was what you went on that he tricked. Was was that like an idea kicking around your head or or -- know is actually."

" Tough. Place to get to that -- I was have you had a bunch of ideas some of my starter or amateur Justin and now. So why -- basically a lot of ideas. And that's what worries appointed. So let's wives the structure minister six characters. All with their own story lines that they it was -- combine a lot of different. Half -- stories that that was there a lot of like pre planning and that -- script that. More heavily than you had box office poison no way I eat them the difference was I guess is. As might become apparent from Reading the book is that the structure is very much I did the ending by far the ending first -- okay no I have to get all these characters in this particular. Position and then. That's sort work backwards from there but I never right now -- its grip or or are doing of the ministry of sound like I like to keep it. To myself room to play this -- you didn't really know how long it was going to be here where it's I had an estimated in my head sort of regular fox those poison. But. You know beyond that I really to keep it opens you just flying through life with no plan yet exactly -- just -- this. Was there ever any point to -- actually mean it seems like. Doesn't see doesn't read like seems like you -- new we're going and everything. Was there a point where you like Bono I've got myself in the corner I don't know if I'm going to be it would get from here to hear that it yeah. The weakness of work anyway do sort of one page at a time basically making it very. Exposed writer's block -- level characters sitting around saying okay what we do now I don't like I had no idea I'd like to get you from. The site of the -- to that's over the cliff but I don't know how long way to get it so. Just to the times -- one year later and yet it at all over hate it."

" That was -- that was close at epithets. That one thing that -- noticed as I is that. -- is a fictional world all of your cultural references and everything in -- made up -- box office poison. As a also as a real real stuff right did you decide to do that on purpose or."

" Yes it was actually sparked on Heidi the there was a Spanish translation -- of -- got an email from the translator who's like there's a couple of references I bet. Don't mean anything to us and I ask you what they are sort sort of come up with. Parallels Spanish thing or or the please explain what a mature you know send -- the things that it was probably like. 700 questions like you know what does kiss my -- mean who are Abbott and Costello who you know who is Anna Nicole Smith all these kind of things not -- Mike I didn't realize I was so early this. You know Quinton Tarantino esque you know post short handled that was the flavor of the mid ninety's I don't -- it's probably true so want my kids and it's all. Right so I was determined not to have that happen with the second vote so -- I accidentally left Rolling Stone magazine and mayor. But rather that every band that we saw every movie everything it's -- for sports figure I was like yeah it happens real here. And they weren't even in in there in the subsidy they -- near exit yet it was not -- does that mean to you want -- here cities like. You know sometimes seems like Los Angeles -- the New York you know at palm trees -- which makes her you know so. Also let you give me is we're gonna pop culture characters as risky because. You might you know if you made a reference OJ Simpson and 99. Means would be very different. You know three years later so he can watch sneaking -- now about -- OJ Simpson killing his wife so so that the risk you have to put. Pop culture thing in not to mention like twenty years and apple might out of you know who. You know that is ray beam is based on anybody except trying to. -- him in the somebody -- my head and I couldn't. Well. It's sort of an amalgam of I was originally inspired to do a story sort of job -- an inch figure."

" By the way Arabian is that them the character from -- is a rock star who was in a very popular band than they broke up yet one solo albums but sort of by the time he. Classic for the second unified way that you didn't read it I absolutely okay I've been I've very much enjoyed it -- Very much like you what you were made -- you're working on your second book at the time. I haven't played on a minute -- would mean write everything and anybody specifically."

" Well. John Lennon was definitely a yeah down an inspiration. One of these because everything after plastic on events out. It yeah well you -- it was more about like. The sort of mythology of job letting -- is having perfectly shipman. There was a book by the standing Albert Goldman that came out in the early eighties that space -- that's all lie -- it was a drug addict of the utility -- him and you know. And so I was -- should -- Exploring that idea and but there's you know visually he's that we inspired by Elvis Costello. The terms of the setup for the band it was -- the police -- the only a couple of albums that really cute it's being managed. -- solo career that beats the that it's older necessarily. So man -- of Israel lot of rock founder Bob Dylan and others to get a lot of Elvis to get stories and Weaver. On them. And and caprice of the characters carried over there -- that there. Mostly just because I enjoyed writing and drawing her users missiles these sort of throw away character about them -- on the -- once the but -- such a Soviet batters struck me that -- power back edge leaders important -- the end of box what's. Spoiler. Spoiler. In I can't there -- Versa but. Yeah so what actually it's. Dirty thing in my known where. Ever since I was sort of I've been doing comics since I was high school in the ice that was high school if there's those guys thought it anyway. It's. I would sort of you take one character right previous work at the carrier overseas or treats like and we tree. Characters back to -- didn't I useful for example. Jane about -- poison was secretly character. Character's story we're prior to that and so you're an indie comic continuity. Yes. Well. It's funny you somewhere else they'll no prizes war what's funny because that would just emailed me asking. Bit rate just read you cool and character in two school years in tricked. Eight in knowing box -- assistant principal in. To pool is service manager later on. What and so with that is missiles these characters fail yet is meant to blow it and you've been tricked you may have box that was poisoned you mention that he's been reached over thirty years sat previous school principal and I'm like no way you. So. Three hours languages but yet used -- to looking for an appropriate that isn't completely different world and there. Yeah yeah the same culture that's fine yesterday that sort of the apparently -- actors played for rules the way I worked. All right so we're anti macbreaking go to our sponsor and then we'll be back."

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" Backgrounds in general are ray are. -- of them not finished it -- put the worst thing is definitely cars I could not incapable of drawing cars and I think it. Might -- back to meeting -- the way and you know it's all kids like to draw and and he really had interest in cars like the cool kids loved to drug very detailed cars. I don't know anything about cars but no you know -- kind of hard reality blue car that's the extent of my -- right now so. No -- you know you're finished with a page do you do you do you yeah -- in the video right now that's -- out. No one's -- well do is -- a point -- panel's latest where it's sort of almost like coloring book where it's you know nothing -- and that I will take data. Brush and quality can fill in all the parts that are going to be black which. And they use a lot of blacks about -- a lot of a lot of people like all of us will be -- this week whacko this will be black only here. It had to be black so. That you just really makes the -- things pop out."

" This is an ordinary. Number two pencil. Available any you just. You don't you -- at the drawing pencil now just just it's just regular number two pence to 600 years like that if you hear me and I don't use -- the things they dispute that. In the middle faction American collector and sure. So why will pencil and then he's. Two types of tools and these these micron and it went a little less rooted. Which -- we used to do lettering. And usually the faces because. Get a bit more control and the -- the most important thing in terms of what's the small details on -- please generally yeah. Change the way picture looks and I sees these. Japanese. Brush patents. Which have. It's worth more -- interest it's it's it's Thursday. Brunch at the end that's much more effort and leave me yeah yeah these aren't these certainly cheapen what's funny is people -- and use them and -- I don't know what. I don't know what this is so it's line line squiggles that certain any Japanese readers want to let me know what that says it is -- in order. Well there's the Japanese stole word over and -- Rockefeller Center where they sell Japanese books that Japanese. Things art supplies and apparently it quicker. This is."

" The board recommended lead over an -- by okay -- that that you take yours and compare the characters. Well Valerie may be the I know what the packaging and that's more. My inner secrets revealed. So this is the actual keep seeing here and so. So I don't look so let's about Stan. And then I use this I polymer -- I use this to -- and more recently you came out with the -- against the lower regions yap with -- problems is Laurie. Contractually obligated to call outs rounds -- it's also dialogue on. Yeah about little. Reasonable size average. -- how would you describe this this book because it was a departure. I was working to cool. And I does that really that writer's block Lemieux's two was quick comic that was fun and just let the my inner thirteen year old program and so basically the idea. Story memory sixty leading -- acts but he mobsters. Or sixty pages you know I would draw. That I draw the fight aliens to confront that monster that you skillet and months the next one -- it in this new talking and it's all action. And is this signal. So that you want to do differently in future. Something you know. When I was doing and I was like this community with the rest of my life and I. A slight you know Italy while Italian complicate -- tasteless -- really giving it that it. You know obviously -- And lots -- I thought that I started doing it turned added together actually activity just keep eating cake out. And so yeah I was way or. Our -- started so. So it might -- they'll revisit periodically -- I want them -- have fun with that but it was the most fun I've had like drawings that it's. There. Which brings us to the new book the new new graphic novel too -- to be forgotten. What's what's the pitch. I really like the -- such a simple thing or another. The it's about a middle aged man who lump wants to quit smoking and so we get -- self hypnotized. And it's sends him back to 1985. For dozens -- candy cigarettes -- get off now think it he tried to let that topic cases be keeping drives but. So basically he gets a mile high school as -- forty year old person you know. Hilarity. I -- Now it you exciting high school anxiety demons yeah. I graduate my school in 1987. And 97 which sleeping and renter -- school in 1980 seven's -- while last year was my twentieth reunion. And that's sort of sparked me out like -- comic book about high school come out. On the like fortieth anniversary operates the union -- went in your face you know -- being with guy now that the the that the sadly did not come to pass those to -- lot harder right thoughts oh. Yeah high school -- loomed large -- night. Personal apologies. But the good thing to examine it did you did you treated the same way. It is. -- pages times they've -- it all of them. That's another hot day in nine and started. -- Yet -- was moralists and provides and he said it was difficult what was it you -- basically I sort of had to leave. Mentally and high school for two years as we're you know you're like me it just -- it -- completely when you went back to it. Well almost the opposite views of sort of like I was obsessing over you know like. So. The -- do you think you read that long that intensely was very light you know. The agonizing process but as the worst torture I'd ever do word. So. It lets you talk about it yes so well. Can make me cry. Well it's actually. Seeking there's a bit in the book EM and I go I don't want to give it away right but just -- but you've got me. Over and only. It would make me cry. Well it's tough because. I just read or Leo reviews the solar FaceBook posted a review. You know. And the whereas those huge balls. So it hurts so you know it's a fine line between sentimental sincere I'm glad that I have elected me."

" I can see them like anything each policy you're not yet you don't mean -- but like. -- for some reason. I am going to dance around this once it would it would issue. I didn't see you what was coming in now looking back it was completely obvious right it should have been -- but I was just like that that -- along with AM and you get dropped hints at things like that and that -- like law. The winning and we need to use like that union when you're working up to that like yeah like you seeking -- crying -- this is the worst thing."

" And -- bellow well. Because. Well I'm glad it worked in your case for you are sort of caught off guard and that's I want it to be that Carriker Q so other than knowing what was going to happen again I really did not think about it. Until it came time to write it and but the ending itself actually was very easy to write I think maybe just because it was sort sephardic after all awful -- cool stuff -- you know two. To to do you do seem so wanna."

" Yeah I'm I'm glad that it season most people seem to. We'll be taking positive thing to do so I it came out of fire. Yeah I think I met him to do we covered a fantastic job of I think it's you know amazing cover. If you put that in will host for -- it's you'll be looking at right now okay. So you have met him -- is that right today great. Job but the cover I think it's nice little package. So. Going through it."

" Q did you. You think of anything that that you would tell your sixteen year old self. I need you because it is if you go back in and -- is what happened was. Is security goes back he starts to react to all these high school things -- with the mind of his -- 3740 yeah forty years forty years how early is you know an -- like. This doesn't make sense it's all going to be this does. As you're going to forget all this like right in that perspective of the course incredibly refreshing to -- nice -- make no sense at all right I mean what would you what would you tell yourself."

" I guess basically I would just tell myself to sort of hang on and it even though it sucks now. You know. He yeah I white a happy eventually and that's. People ask you what would you change if you went back ice cool it. You know be on the true but not very funny answer is well nothing really because. If you're happy -- your present life. You don't want it. It's it's accurate and up by you know -- glad Italy fifteen and then you know how it and I didn't like problem yet exactly the -- fly them. Com and so why you have I guess just sort of me in probably useless advice like hang you know stick it out delicately eventually you know all the -- Back and so which I'm sure Michael's wife who murder that now they wouldn't believe it's to did you did you like -- on high school like. TV shows that are dvds and stuff like that when the practice well. Now I was actually very determined not to write Hollywood teenagers which is another is -- the book was very hard to -- because them. No offense to teenagers out there every dead trees. Like what team have yet knowing that that I'm sure I'm sure you heard until talking to tutored 95. In adding that the universal and we -- we're cool ever. You know it's just. Like most teenagers talk if you wrote realistic to use it to see things very dad right. -- a barrier there erratic and members self conscious than. So. Sort of backed myself and the quarterback -- we're right realistic teenagers and not you know not. You know Beverly Hills I don't know it -- it came back to bite me that's that's though I really regret not really regret if it does that."

" Amassing just you know we talked a sort of that the rest of your career like what. Is there anything that you noticed differently about the way that you -- now than they used to mean like technically I -- would it. How has it changed for you well technically. And."

" You know its -- it looks differently I don't know the words right. Well right at one point I switched instantly switched schools please use sort of in pains. But now -- use these sort of Japanese and Russians that community -- And the army and I guess that -- sort of your -- you drawing this thing Leo did or or might work smaller now than -- used to work a lot I used to draw. Ten inches by fifteen inches and allied do you about nine by twelve. Despite a look at the old page from Michael Howard -- films -- of pages and that's why did it is theoretically at work faster with smaller date so. But beyond that it's pretty much the same process. I have more confidence. Yeah it is that you were faster -- ever know that's the regrettable thing I think. Who I think as yielding just naturally slowed down and you know. Thus you find short yes or -- team assistance. But. In the other room yet. In the witness. Crack in the Mac and I think it's it's also when you're young and -- before it is yes it. You know people that were the crazy neo populist -- it's -- to use every -- every cartooning -- you pages with text. Live pretty layouts and -- was sort of a matter of well have a comic book now. This might the only shot at and it just throw every tool every tree can you know you think you'd list. I mean. Yeah I mean there there are a lot of -- in box that was -- and in the end. I -- amateurs and the government and that the guy goes nuts mostly yes India is. Dialogue gets more and more like and that's visually represented. In the mean. Well I think it even more in service story now I think that's the difference whereas in box office poison might use something just fantasy goes. Let me just to a -- out because it's fine now tend to -- it I hope word in terms of like well you know. Terms certain characters or. Yeah I guess so -- yeah -- ever fly yes that's when their beards and broken married yet well."

" All right I think that I've wasted your time but thank you very much I I really enjoyed although it was my pleasure and you didn't didn't waste my time there. -- that's flat inexplicably. -- I'd say give any questions. Right to contact and boy go to -- envoy dot com and see everything there and make comments on this show. And get over revision three dot com slash -- envoy to -- Seymour videos and things like that. Com thank you very much. Thank you and you so long."

" Kind of you don't have any way to. While I was US happening. Though is -- friends they were perfect. Liquid that bell to -- Correction -- But the bad part about this. Well it's my older white outs of exactly. So while but I never we'll find him do it looks like that. I -- listeners out there viewers viewers and viewers. -- filming."

" This episode I offend by proxy by. Good that is outcome Netflix dot com. And the music. Hey I'm Joshua and I thin with a comic book discussion show from the website I've been -- dot com. That's not -- Ron this is our cartoonist Alex Robinson everybody and -- of the -- is that is that the title."

" They use -- sort cartoonist America. There alcoholic so cartoonists. Around. I have issues the -- a graphic novelist now to sound like I'm really trying to be like smarter something but. Yeah comic book artists news or use graphic -- too pretentious cartoonists is right there. There it's not soccer pride thing is now it's good enough for Charles -- for that'll work. -- asking you you're a professional in this as a living. How do you get from the point where you decide you want to do cartoons. Comic books or whatever (%expletive) are -- this is this is your data -- Well I graduated from art school I had a full time job but we're in Barnes & Noble. And it's just like when your character exactly what -- that. -- did you major in in and are there cartooning. Beijing cartooning. A lot of people like new walls and want to be part here's the sort of hedge their bets in major illustration and I was Mosley. You know appears to be real you don't want anything to fall back now analysis of this -- that the business stars. I can use little -- live -- that so. Yes I graduated from art school and the idea. Was determined to get published and I was due for me for 28 me Alex a year emails any -- publishers. Eventually one of -- bit him you know gradually yeah you know climbed. Clinton savage slacker and was box office poison that the first thing you did or I did some other ideas fresh out of college but none of them really seen. Much wider audience thankfully they're terrible so. -- those poisons experts and it really you know. Serious and in the mini comics d.s self publish those and distribute -- yet many comics you know I've discovered the copy shop and you know. Street stores sell it shows get the publishers the United to recognize that the stuff that ended up being part of -- later -- or or or did you read you some of that story don't know why I I kept that'll man I'm. When we did the big collection there's no question it will go back in the draws me earlier pages which to me seem like. I came look at the crew it seems like. There can stop. You obviously swallowed your tale well just rejoice first forty pages -- 21 to the book is all inclusive yet the book has everything you can see my props -- involve -- from. You know terrible -- pretty okay so at what point were you able to. Like quit today in. Line. It was probably about halfway through and two. I don't want to give people impression that you know. On -- highlights drawing comic books have been some -- comics my wife also you know works she's yours supportive so was best. Factor so let me in the arts fighters yes supportive spouse. It's true. And."

" I and it just it must be such a scary prospect of having a job one day that you know you know some reason -- check in right. And then and then you know you're like come on my -- and this was when you're still doin' through."

" yet this is back in the Antarctic press here ariz was going on now it was quarterly slash bi monthly -- My wife will -- my girlfriend at the time room. Realize that if I want to -- anything -- like couldn't keep the -- job man and so we were investment. -- like okay well. -- the note goes and thankfully it paid off your mind your every day everything I've seen him today. So I always answer -- question it was really scary it was it was delightful that is you know -- truthful so -- video frankly worked out but you know. I was never so happy that the equipment. -- feeling. Let me ask you we've talked other guys recommend there's specifically -- those one time and it -- really answer you're constantly. Have this year. -- right the fear of well this is working so clever what happens I mean like -- this fro awhile now -- is the -- is still there or. Well it's it's sort of like. Each book I'm convinced is going to be. A bomb it yeah I'll start working on -- like that looks terrible -- and heated you know. You know so far everything's going okay but. You know it's inevitable wouldn't produce them stinker at some point so what's the it was -- it happened that in terms of success. But I think that's a good thing because it's her freeze -- does that well it's gonna bombs ought to do what I want and not have to worry about. So. Do you tend to write yourself and that is your. Trying to attain. Yeah I think. When I first started off and its immediate -- and it was. Aiming for a certain audience and that's why it was just -- and going to write that Islam and you -- story I would like read. And hopefully other people like to you know again thankfully that -- that's -- the book box office poison that the pressure. It was going to be you know terrible -- Question four. -- All of Becky from the movie mummy dearest at what point they city. Your voters fox sports night that goes by they would vote so one box that duplicates of it and price. So. And it's not does not a wire hanger in the please check now on the learned the hard again. Scary. Let me let me ask you when you started box office poison. 1984. Or eight or. -- about -- so at that point it's like the image boom right -- concert you went completely the opposite way I mean. Was there anything else like that time -- well there was. There were alternative you know there -- books like love and rockets than to her then. Eight ball things that you know so. I guess that's sort of more peep show books like that it was known more for. Yeah but when I was really reading many superhero comics of the image thing it's kind of like it was. You know certainly interesting -- goalies will also just is that I mean like the industry was like looming before making millions of dollars just before I find it funny that your book actually took place. Select created during the whole crashed directly that yes actually I think guidance of I think like a month and a half or -- book. Whistles published. Diamond was the only distribute it last what might publisher called wells capital just got bought out my time so your orders are probably going to be cut in half. The great -- picked the perfect since you. Two you weathered that storm did you actually have -- met my timing is pretty good because now the old graphic novels. You know the hottest thing around so you know getting reviewed everywhere it. You know as a respectable thing so now and it's -- you can you can you describe box and as -- Republican. We talked about the show but -- right here from you what how what you wish -- box of witness. Box office poison. Is the gigantic book that follows the lives of a budget New Yorkers that are terrible job. Relationships Balkan baton. Yet it's basically down. A bunch of people trying to figure out what adult adult it is they're -- like early money at all you know fresh out of college community. Well as one terror groups like in his seventies but other -- people in their twenties early thirties you know it's a lot of fractions war I experiences that career by going to. I'm loves them. Did you have an over I mean it's a big sort of sweeping epic right of everyday life I guess. Did you have did you know what it was did you plan or it means you get it over here six years. Yes excuse that started 942000. You know is going to be. Yeah I was a huge fan of service and you know decent as those tremendously thick books and I bet the pan am 1 wanted to -- long. Graphic novel take time to -- a lot of characters agent you know. So why think very early on that I said well this is probably run about. When he issues something -- Atlanta. When she reaches -- I was pretty from the start it was pretty. Pretty close to figuring. It was nice that you're able to take sides have those. -- pages of but yes the care if the question -- yet to learn something about that this might get really in the long. Characters that they at fault line you're that you. Yes it was kind of funny because them. Sherman the main character. The backward in the bookstore. As the book went on I liked him less and less so by the end of the book I really couldn't stand -- you had to picket. Well I -- I don't know whether that was -- Carriker whether whether I got tired of news so why it was less forgiving of his sins and they think that's though. You can see got annoyed by fictional character that you created. Yeah like like a friend -- you've you've sort of spread the split up with overtime but yeah I -- so I mean it's it's sort of like I guess as -- It's almost like I put my own worst -- it to him though at the beginning here in the same boat people that these terrible jobs needed and then adds. You know I sort of progressive life -- sort of frustrated that he was not progressed. So you still shining the same thing not yet I think and you while we character Ed the other character who. Starter off very much as they -- minor supporting character at the -- went on I identified with him more so he sort of become more dominant as the book ends. Has the last word books. Which some people would like some people that was kind of weakness but. Are you will let me ask you are you it's it's been awhile -- you've done I mean it really. He started at fourteen years ago so I -- and we're still talking about it that's going to biggest thing but I like you ever look back through it what do you what do you think about it these days. I mean I haven't read it in a long time. Have you ever gone back and read it like after it was done. I -- detail I don't think -- do that what -- that it -- now look at the opening page it's just you know plus it's sick of them from the scene for so long but but. I mean I'm. It's deadly levels popular book and it's still the thing I get most the most comments on it and he's been like -- tree came out my second book. But it's sort of revive interest about those poison and it actually sold better then second book if those second was music it's sort of it's part people linemen would mean he heard it but. So why. Some grateful that I mean. If you want book -- hit and of the people like him. That's more than most people have."

" It I don't live for me it was there's something very. Very real about it I guess -- the characters seem to be like archetypes there's people I know people like this right. If people like you in the even the other books seem to have analog. This is this type of person in this guy and those -- That's why I mean you be doing that consciously -- these characters are you like and the -- of --"

" No war. Some of the more rom. Inspired by people I know some of them were like sort of idealized versions of people. And some of them were were beast I guess. Famous people like didn't know -- imagine well right -- the terror target these disparate -- record the actual literary -- guard parker who was. Right here he's very funny but sugar or just personal life as a disaster and I think it's time I just read about her via -- let me put. Moneymaker character in the book."

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" Is that typical size you working. Yet these days with the typical size that work him. I used to work. You know ten by fifteen. And mildly just keeps getting smaller and smaller the sales what you -- it -- them having to. Reduce your piece it together vote and totally accurate computers. That's -- on the now -- had and how do you normally like we're got a page do you start with a thumbs down and put money here in Europe pencils or."

" I'll my sketch book -- write it out in union do you sort of he faces -- you know poses or whatever but. Then -- disco. This -- little out. Put in we're balloons this as he sees through halfway and I penciled it I've put in the word balloons register very -- pencils. And then when it comes down any individual panel to much tighter pencils then. -- that you -- literate first. Yeah. It's sort of like the -- like Marvel Comics. Does that ways these sort of don't have to worry about. If -- differs that you have to worry about feeding we're balloons around what you've done sometimes. And you you still literary. Yes so that's that's impressive I gotta say -- no matter how you know I've got some plates of lettering but I just that really old school that way that I like. The flexibility you. But a -- of thirty year Mac computers and the idea. I don't. And really -- street desire to learn. And you computer literate. Of Church and shows -- that's ridiculous -- simpler -- long years but you know with the pack after a box that was what you went on that he tricked. Was was that like an idea kicking around your head or or -- know is actually."

" Tough. Place to get to that -- I was have you had a bunch of ideas some of my starter or amateur Justin and now. So why -- basically a lot of ideas. And that's what worries appointed. So let's wives the structure minister six characters. All with their own story lines that they it was -- combine a lot of different. Half -- stories that that was there a lot of like pre planning and that -- script that. More heavily than you had box office poison no way I eat them the difference was I guess is. As might become apparent from Reading the book is that the structure is very much I did the ending by far the ending first -- okay no I have to get all these characters in this particular. Position and then. That's sort work backwards from there but I never right now -- its grip or or are doing of the ministry of sound like I like to keep it. To myself room to play this -- you didn't really know how long it was going to be here where it's I had an estimated in my head sort of regular fox those poison. But. You know beyond that I really to keep it opens you just flying through life with no plan yet exactly -- just -- this. Was there ever any point to -- actually mean it seems like. Doesn't see doesn't read like seems like you -- new we're going and everything. Was there a point where you like Bono I've got myself in the corner I don't know if I'm going to be it would get from here to hear that it yeah. The weakness of work anyway do sort of one page at a time basically making it very. Exposed writer's block -- level characters sitting around saying okay what we do now I don't like I had no idea I'd like to get you from. The site of the -- to that's over the cliff but I don't know how long way to get it so. Just to the times -- one year later and yet it at all over hate it."

" That was -- that was close at epithets. That one thing that -- noticed as I is that. -- is a fictional world all of your cultural references and everything in -- made up -- box office poison. As a also as a real real stuff right did you decide to do that on purpose or."

" Yes it was actually sparked on Heidi the there was a Spanish translation -- of -- got an email from the translator who's like there's a couple of references I bet. Don't mean anything to us and I ask you what they are sort sort of come up with. Parallels Spanish thing or or the please explain what a mature you know send -- the things that it was probably like. 700 questions like you know what does kiss my -- mean who are Abbott and Costello who you know who is Anna Nicole Smith all these kind of things not -- Mike I didn't realize I was so early this. You know Quinton Tarantino esque you know post short handled that was the flavor of the mid ninety's I don't -- it's probably true so want my kids and it's all. Right so I was determined not to have that happen with the second vote so -- I accidentally left Rolling Stone magazine and mayor. But rather that every band that we saw every movie everything it's -- for sports figure I was like yeah it happens real here. And they weren't even in in there in the subsidy they -- near exit yet it was not -- does that mean to you want -- here cities like. You know sometimes seems like Los Angeles -- the New York you know at palm trees -- which makes her you know so. Also let you give me is we're gonna pop culture characters as risky because. You might you know if you made a reference OJ Simpson and 99. Means would be very different. You know three years later so he can watch sneaking -- now about -- OJ Simpson killing his wife so so that the risk you have to put. Pop culture thing in not to mention like twenty years and apple might out of you know who. You know that is ray beam is based on anybody except trying to. -- him in the somebody -- my head and I couldn't. Well. It's sort of an amalgam of I was originally inspired to do a story sort of job -- an inch figure."

" By the way Arabian is that them the character from -- is a rock star who was in a very popular band than they broke up yet one solo albums but sort of by the time he. Classic for the second unified way that you didn't read it I absolutely okay I've been I've very much enjoyed it -- Very much like you what you were made -- you're working on your second book at the time. I haven't played on a minute -- would mean write everything and anybody specifically."

" Well. John Lennon was definitely a yeah down an inspiration. One of these because everything after plastic on events out. It yeah well you -- it was more about like. The sort of mythology of job letting -- is having perfectly shipman. There was a book by the standing Albert Goldman that came out in the early eighties that space -- that's all lie -- it was a drug addict of the utility -- him and you know. And so I was -- should -- Exploring that idea and but there's you know visually he's that we inspired by Elvis Costello. The terms of the setup for the band it was -- the police -- the only a couple of albums that really cute it's being managed. -- solo career that beats the that it's older necessarily. So man -- of Israel lot of rock founder Bob Dylan and others to get a lot of Elvis to get stories and Weaver. On them. And and caprice of the characters carried over there -- that there. Mostly just because I enjoyed writing and drawing her users missiles these sort of throw away character about them -- on the -- once the but -- such a Soviet batters struck me that -- power back edge leaders important -- the end of box what's. Spoiler. Spoiler. In I can't there -- Versa but. Yeah so what actually it's. Dirty thing in my known where. Ever since I was sort of I've been doing comics since I was high school in the ice that was high school if there's those guys thought it anyway. It's. I would sort of you take one character right previous work at the carrier overseas or treats like and we tree. Characters back to -- didn't I useful for example. Jane about -- poison was secretly character. Character's story we're prior to that and so you're an indie comic continuity. Yes. Well. It's funny you somewhere else they'll no prizes war what's funny because that would just emailed me asking. Bit rate just read you cool and character in two school years in tricked. Eight in knowing box -- assistant principal in. To pool is service manager later on. What and so with that is missiles these characters fail yet is meant to blow it and you've been tricked you may have box that was poisoned you mention that he's been reached over thirty years sat previous school principal and I'm like no way you. So. Three hours languages but yet used -- to looking for an appropriate that isn't completely different world and there. Yeah yeah the same culture that's fine yesterday that sort of the apparently -- actors played for rules the way I worked. All right so we're anti macbreaking go to our sponsor and then we'll be back."

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" Backgrounds in general are ray are. -- of them not finished it -- put the worst thing is definitely cars I could not incapable of drawing cars and I think it. Might -- back to meeting -- the way and you know it's all kids like to draw and and he really had interest in cars like the cool kids loved to drug very detailed cars. I don't know anything about cars but no you know -- kind of hard reality blue car that's the extent of my -- right now so. No -- you know you're finished with a page do you do you do you yeah -- in the video right now that's -- out. No one's -- well do is -- a point -- panel's latest where it's sort of almost like coloring book where it's you know nothing -- and that I will take data. Brush and quality can fill in all the parts that are going to be black which. And they use a lot of blacks about -- a lot of a lot of people like all of us will be -- this week whacko this will be black only here. It had to be black so. That you just really makes the -- things pop out."

" This is an ordinary. Number two pencil. Available any you just. You don't you -- at the drawing pencil now just just it's just regular number two pence to 600 years like that if you hear me and I don't use -- the things they dispute that. In the middle faction American collector and sure. So why will pencil and then he's. Two types of tools and these these micron and it went a little less rooted. Which -- we used to do lettering. And usually the faces because. Get a bit more control and the -- the most important thing in terms of what's the small details on -- please generally yeah. Change the way picture looks and I sees these. Japanese. Brush patents. Which have. It's worth more -- interest it's it's it's Thursday. Brunch at the end that's much more effort and leave me yeah yeah these aren't these certainly cheapen what's funny is people -- and use them and -- I don't know what. I don't know what this is so it's line line squiggles that certain any Japanese readers want to let me know what that says it is -- in order. Well there's the Japanese stole word over and -- Rockefeller Center where they sell Japanese books that Japanese. Things art supplies and apparently it quicker. This is."

" The board recommended lead over an -- by okay -- that that you take yours and compare the characters. Well Valerie may be the I know what the packaging and that's more. My inner secrets revealed. So this is the actual keep seeing here and so. So I don't look so let's about Stan. And then I use this I polymer -- I use this to -- and more recently you came out with the -- against the lower regions yap with -- problems is Laurie. Contractually obligated to call outs rounds -- it's also dialogue on. Yeah about little. Reasonable size average. -- how would you describe this this book because it was a departure. I was working to cool. And I does that really that writer's block Lemieux's two was quick comic that was fun and just let the my inner thirteen year old program and so basically the idea. Story memory sixty leading -- acts but he mobsters. Or sixty pages you know I would draw. That I draw the fight aliens to confront that monster that you skillet and months the next one -- it in this new talking and it's all action. And is this signal. So that you want to do differently in future. Something you know. When I was doing and I was like this community with the rest of my life and I. A slight you know Italy while Italian complicate -- tasteless -- really giving it that it. You know obviously -- And lots -- I thought that I started doing it turned added together actually activity just keep eating cake out. And so yeah I was way or. Our -- started so. So it might -- they'll revisit periodically -- I want them -- have fun with that but it was the most fun I've had like drawings that it's. There. Which brings us to the new book the new new graphic novel too -- to be forgotten. What's what's the pitch. I really like the -- such a simple thing or another. The it's about a middle aged man who lump wants to quit smoking and so we get -- self hypnotized. And it's sends him back to 1985. For dozens -- candy cigarettes -- get off now think it he tried to let that topic cases be keeping drives but. So basically he gets a mile high school as -- forty year old person you know. Hilarity. I -- Now it you exciting high school anxiety demons yeah. I graduate my school in 1987. And 97 which sleeping and renter -- school in 1980 seven's -- while last year was my twentieth reunion. And that's sort of sparked me out like -- comic book about high school come out. On the like fortieth anniversary operates the union -- went in your face you know -- being with guy now that the the that the sadly did not come to pass those to -- lot harder right thoughts oh. Yeah high school -- loomed large -- night. Personal apologies. But the good thing to examine it did you did you treated the same way. It is. -- pages times they've -- it all of them. That's another hot day in nine and started. -- Yet -- was moralists and provides and he said it was difficult what was it you -- basically I sort of had to leave. Mentally and high school for two years as we're you know you're like me it just -- it -- completely when you went back to it. Well almost the opposite views of sort of like I was obsessing over you know like. So. The -- do you think you read that long that intensely was very light you know. The agonizing process but as the worst torture I'd ever do word. So. It lets you talk about it yes so well. Can make me cry. Well it's actually. Seeking there's a bit in the book EM and I go I don't want to give it away right but just -- but you've got me. Over and only. It would make me cry. Well it's tough because. I just read or Leo reviews the solar FaceBook posted a review. You know. And the whereas those huge balls. So it hurts so you know it's a fine line between sentimental sincere I'm glad that I have elected me."

" I can see them like anything each policy you're not yet you don't mean -- but like. -- for some reason. I am going to dance around this once it would it would issue. I didn't see you what was coming in now looking back it was completely obvious right it should have been -- but I was just like that that -- along with AM and you get dropped hints at things like that and that -- like law. The winning and we need to use like that union when you're working up to that like yeah like you seeking -- crying -- this is the worst thing."

" And -- bellow well. Because. Well I'm glad it worked in your case for you are sort of caught off guard and that's I want it to be that Carriker Q so other than knowing what was going to happen again I really did not think about it. Until it came time to write it and but the ending itself actually was very easy to write I think maybe just because it was sort sephardic after all awful -- cool stuff -- you know two. To to do you do seem so wanna."

" Yeah I'm I'm glad that it season most people seem to. We'll be taking positive thing to do so I it came out of fire. Yeah I think I met him to do we covered a fantastic job of I think it's you know amazing cover. If you put that in will host for -- it's you'll be looking at right now okay. So you have met him -- is that right today great. Job but the cover I think it's nice little package. So. Going through it."

" Q did you. You think of anything that that you would tell your sixteen year old self. I need you because it is if you go back in and -- is what happened was. Is security goes back he starts to react to all these high school things -- with the mind of his -- 3740 yeah forty years forty years how early is you know an -- like. This doesn't make sense it's all going to be this does. As you're going to forget all this like right in that perspective of the course incredibly refreshing to -- nice -- make no sense at all right I mean what would you what would you tell yourself."

" I guess basically I would just tell myself to sort of hang on and it even though it sucks now. You know. He yeah I white a happy eventually and that's. People ask you what would you change if you went back ice cool it. You know be on the true but not very funny answer is well nothing really because. If you're happy -- your present life. You don't want it. It's it's accurate and up by you know -- glad Italy fifteen and then you know how it and I didn't like problem yet exactly the -- fly them. Com and so why you have I guess just sort of me in probably useless advice like hang you know stick it out delicately eventually you know all the -- Back and so which I'm sure Michael's wife who murder that now they wouldn't believe it's to did you did you like -- on high school like. TV shows that are dvds and stuff like that when the practice well. Now I was actually very determined not to write Hollywood teenagers which is another is -- the book was very hard to -- because them. No offense to teenagers out there every dead trees. Like what team have yet knowing that that I'm sure I'm sure you heard until talking to tutored 95. In adding that the universal and we -- we're cool ever. You know it's just. Like most teenagers talk if you wrote realistic to use it to see things very dad right. -- a barrier there erratic and members self conscious than. So. Sort of backed myself and the quarterback -- we're right realistic teenagers and not you know not. You know Beverly Hills I don't know it -- it came back to bite me that's that's though I really regret not really regret if it does that."

" Amassing just you know we talked a sort of that the rest of your career like what. Is there anything that you noticed differently about the way that you -- now than they used to mean like technically I -- would it. How has it changed for you well technically. And."

" You know its -- it looks differently I don't know the words right. Well right at one point I switched instantly switched schools please use sort of in pains. But now -- use these sort of Japanese and Russians that community -- And the army and I guess that -- sort of your -- you drawing this thing Leo did or or might work smaller now than -- used to work a lot I used to draw. Ten inches by fifteen inches and allied do you about nine by twelve. Despite a look at the old page from Michael Howard -- films -- of pages and that's why did it is theoretically at work faster with smaller date so. But beyond that it's pretty much the same process. I have more confidence. Yeah it is that you were faster -- ever know that's the regrettable thing I think. Who I think as yielding just naturally slowed down and you know. Thus you find short yes or -- team assistance. But. In the other room yet. In the witness. Crack in the Mac and I think it's it's also when you're young and -- before it is yes it. You know people that were the crazy neo populist -- it's -- to use every -- every cartooning -- you pages with text. Live pretty layouts and -- was sort of a matter of well have a comic book now. This might the only shot at and it just throw every tool every tree can you know you think you'd list. I mean. Yeah I mean there there are a lot of -- in box that was -- and in the end. I -- amateurs and the government and that the guy goes nuts mostly yes India is. Dialogue gets more and more like and that's visually represented. In the mean. Well I think it even more in service story now I think that's the difference whereas in box office poison might use something just fantasy goes. Let me just to a -- out because it's fine now tend to -- it I hope word in terms of like well you know. Terms certain characters or. Yeah I guess so -- yeah -- ever fly yes that's when their beards and broken married yet well."

" All right I think that I've wasted your time but thank you very much I I really enjoyed although it was my pleasure and you didn't didn't waste my time there. -- that's flat inexplicably. -- I'd say give any questions. Right to contact and boy go to -- envoy dot com and see everything there and make comments on this show. And get over revision three dot com slash -- envoy to -- Seymour videos and things like that. Com thank you very much. Thank you and you so long."

" Kind of you don't have any way to. While I was US happening. Though is -- friends they were perfect. Liquid that bell to -- Correction -- But the bad part about this. Well it's my older white outs of exactly. So while but I never we'll find him do it looks like that. I -- listeners out there viewers viewers and viewers. -- filming."